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Probe
05-05-2014, 11:13
Interesting interview with Wiliam Engdahl. A bit long but worth the time.

Wiliam Engdahl on the Ukraine - TPV Freespirits - YouTube

annasophia
05-05-2014, 12:05
In the same vein, I found this article today. Long and a bit tedious, but still a very nice analysis of the looting[s], sabotage, theft, and international financial criminalism.


IMF plan to loot Ukraine revealed
May 5, 2014


By Jay

(INTELLIHUB) – Readers will notice that April 30, 2014, I posted an analysis of the Western establishment’s longtime approach of containment and subversion in regards to Russia and its satellite nations. One of those crucial strategic locales is Urkaine, which has historically been an integral part of Russia. Washington and its axis have sought to wrest Ukraine from Russian influence to divide up the nation, loot the resources, integrate Ukraine into the EU, and establish more military bases that encroach upon the Rus. In that article, I wrote as follows:

“The “democratic transformation” Brzezinski is writing about is found in the phony, western-funded NGOs that have sparked a host of “color revolutions” over the last few decades in Middle Eastern and former Soviet satellite nations. The goal is thus to flank Russia and eventually “democratize” and McDonalidize Russia and its satellites even further through perpetual social disorder, collapse, and GMO cheeseburgers, just as the United States itself undergoes tyrannical “democratization” from its degenerate, so-called elite. This plan of Brzezinski to transform Russia at the end of the 90s resulted inthe Yeltsin regime, wherein a host of former communist party oligarchs looted the nation through the Clinton Administration’s IMF “aid.” This “aid” resulted in 500 billion being looted from the Russian people, as well as the collapse of the Russian ecomomy. The same Clintonistas that organized this debacle through organized (NGO) crime also organized the banker bailout of recent fame, through unending, repackaged derivatives scams.”

The next day, Russia Today reported that the IMF had approved a 17 billion dollar “aid” package to “stabilize” the economy of Kiev. RT wrote:
“The International Monetary Fund has approved a two-year $17.1 billion loan package for Ukraine. The immediate disbursement of $3.2 billion will allow Ukraine to avoid a potential debt default.

The IMF’s 24-member board agreed to the two-year program to aid Ukraine’s troubled economy on Wednesday.

The approval gives the green light for the immediate release of $3.2 billion to Ukraine, which will allow the nation not to fall into default, Reuters reports. More than half of that money will be dedicated to supporting the country’s budget.

The package will open up loans from other donors totaling around $15 billion. The goal is for Ukraine to use the money to stabilize its economy.

“The authorities’ economic program supported by the Fund aims to restore macroeconomic stability, strengthen economic governance and transparency, and launch sound and sustainable economic growth, while protecting the most vulnerable,” the IMF said in a statement.

IMF managing director Christine Lagarde commented on the aid package, stating that the plan may come with geopolitical and implementation risks.

“On the implementation front, we are taking all the precautions we can in order to mitigate those risks,” Lagarde told reporters on Wednesday. “On the geopolitical front, clearly the bilateral international support, and the cooperation of all parties, will be extremely helpful to reinforce the position of the economy of Ukraine.”

Amazingly, this “aid” is simply the same plan of IMF shock doctrine we have seen over and over, as Nobel winning economist Joseph Stiglitz (former chief economist of the World Bank) revealed back in 2001. That revelation first appeared through BBC reporter Greg Palast’s famous article, “The Globalizer Who Came in From the Cold. The documents summarized their outline the multi-layered plan the IMF takes to attack, destabilize and reorganize (ie, loot) through “aid” packages that result in extensive debt slavery and privatization. Palast explains of the IMF plan in regard to Russia in the 90s:

“Each nation’s economy is individually analyzed, then, says Stiglitz, the Bank hands every minister the same exact four-step program.

Step One is Privatization – which Stiglitz said could more accurately be called, ‘Briberization.’ Rather than object to the sell-offs of state industries, he said national leaders – using the World Bank’s demands to silence local critics – happily flogged their electricity and water companies. “You could see their eyes widen” at the prospect of 10% commissions paid to Swiss bank accounts for simply shaving a few billion off the sale price of national assets.

And the US government knew it, charges Stiglitz, at least in the case of the biggest ‘briberization’ of all, the 1995 Russian sell-off. “The US Treasury view was this was great as we wanted Yeltsin re-elected. We don’t care if it’s a corrupt election. We want the money to go to Yeltzin” via kick-backs for his campaign.

Stiglitz is no conspiracy nutter ranting about Black Helicopters. The man was inside the game, a member of Bill Clinton’s cabinet as Chairman of the President’s council of economic advisors.

Most ill-making for Stiglitz is that the US-backed oligarchs stripped Russia’s industrial assets, with the effect that the corruption scheme cut national output nearly in half causing depression and starvation.

After briberization, Step Two of the IMF/World Bank one-size-fits-all rescue-your-economy plan is ‘Capital Market Liberalization.’ In theory, capital market deregulation allows investment capital to flow in and out. Unfortunately, as in Indonesia and Brazil, the money simply flowed out-and-out. Stiglitz calls this the “Hot Money” cycle. Cash comes in for speculation in real estate and currency, then flees at the first whiff of trouble. A nation’s reserves can drain in days, hours. And when that happens, to seduce speculators into returning a nation’s own capital funds, the IMF demands these nations raise interest rates to 30%, 50% and 80%.”

The Western axis has now implemented the latest installment of the bankster attack pattern in Ukraine, with the approval of 17 billion fiat dollars, reminiscent of the 18 billion that took down the Russian economy in 1998. The 2000 fas.org online text of the US House of Representative’s “Russia’s Road to Corruption” noted of the 1990s Clintonista plan:

“On March 23, 1998, five months before the Russian government’s default on its international and domestic debts led to the nation’s complete economic collapse, Viktor Chernomyrdin was fired as Prime Minister. The allegations of corruption against him had only reinforced the public impression that the policy of a handful of powerful Russian officials was not the construction of a free enterprise system, but rather the subversion of the public good through crony capitalism.

The unexpected firing of Chernomyrdin, Vice President Gore’s partner in the highly visible Gore-Chernomyrdin Commission, unnerved Clinton administration officials. They were just as unprepared for the appointment of the little-known Sergei Kirienko to replace Chernomyrdin. Lawrence Summers, then Deputy Secretary of the Treasury, had inauspiciously dubbed the outgoing Prime Minister’s deputies, Boris Nemtsov and Anatoly Chubais, “the Dream Team.”1 Summers’ characterization epitomized the wishful thinking of the administration, and its willful blindness to the worsening reality in Russia.

As late as the summer of 1998, the Clinton administration still failed to grasp the fundamental error of its policy of funneling enormous amounts of money into a corrupt central government. Despite widespread rumors that Kirienko, too, would soon be fired, the administration proposed nothing more than pouring still more loans from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) into Russia’s central government. Vice President Gore, Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, and Summers set to work on an additional $18 billion U.S. commitment to the IMF chiefly intended to support new lending to Russia.

“We have a significant opportunity to use the leverage of IMF financing to help the Russian government,” Rubin wrote to then-House Speaker Newt Gingrich on July 28, 1998. “The basics are all in the right direction,” Stanley Fischer, the IMF’s Deputy Managing Director, said the same day.2 The administration successfully forced the $18 billion through Congress.

The reality of the situation, however, was that the Russian economy had already begun to collapse. The stock market was plunging. The day before Rubin’s letter to the Speaker of the House and the IMF’s blindly upbeat assessment, the market had suffered a 9% drop. “It’s looking ugly,” said one Western economist on July 27. Said another Western investment strategist: “We’re sitting and watching this in shock and horror.”3

Over the next two weeks, the deterioration continued. Finally, on August 17–one month after the latest bailout–the roof caved in.

The Russian government announced that it would no longer be able to pay its official debts. The ruble was devalued at the same time. The default, coupled with the devaluation of the ruble after years of promises that this would not occur, led to Russia’s total economic collapse–a cataclysm by all measurements worse than America’s Crash of 1929.

The end of Soviet Communism had afforded the United States its greatest foreign policy opportunity since the Allied victory in World War II. Barely six years later Russia’s economy lay in ruins–an opportunity lost.”

It doesn’t take a genius to see that the same plan of “aid” that collapsed the Russian economy of the 90s will not assist Ukraine, unless by “assist” one means assist in its destruction. Criminals operate with the same modus operandi making it relatively easy to notice the pattern of destruction the western axis will inevitably unleash as it seeks to implement its version of the new world order. The austerity introduced into EU nations like Greece will now be the norm for Ukraine. RT continues:

“Lagarde argued that Ukraine has already shown its ability to undertake “comprehensive reforms,” listing a few of the sacrifices that have been made.
“Whether it was a question of letting the exchange rate float, whether it was a question of reforming the procurement law, whether it was a question of modifying the price of gas to customers or to corporate. They’ve (Ukrainian government) done all these things to demonstrate their determination to endorse a very bold program of reforms,” Lagarde stated.

The IMF money comes with stringent terms, asking for various cuts and economic reforms. In the case of Ukraine, the requirements include a 50 percent increase in the price of gas for households, as well as a quick pension reform and lower government spending.” Palast’s article elucidates the attack pattern in its next stages, as readers can expect to see the same in the Ukraine for the near future:

“At this point, the IMF drags the gasping nation to Step Three: Market-Based Pricing, a fancy term for raising prices on food, water and cooking gas. This leads, predictably, to Step-Three-and-a-Half: what Stiglitz calls, “The IMF riot.”

The IMF riot is painfully predictable. When a nation is, “down and out, [the IMF] takes advantage and squeezes the last pound of blood out of them. They turn up the heat until, finally, the whole cauldron blows up,” as when the IMF eliminated food and fuel subsidies for the poor in Indonesia in 1998. Indonesia exploded into riots, but there are other examples – the Bolivian riots over water prices last year and this February, the riots in Ecuador over the rise in cooking gas prices imposed by the World Bank. You’d almost get the impression that the riot is written into the plan.

And it is. What Stiglitz did not know is that, while in the States, BBC and The Observer obtained several documents from inside the World Bank, stamped over with those pesky warnings, “confidential,” “restricted,” “not to be disclosed.” Let’s get back to one: the “Interim Country Assistance Strategy” for Ecuador, in it the Bank several times states – with cold accuracy – that they expected their plans to spark, “social unrest,” to use their bureaucratic term for a nation in flames.

That’s not surprising. The secret report notes that the plan to make the US dollar Ecuador’s currency has pushed 51% of the population below the poverty line. The World Bank “Assistance” plan simply calls for facing down civil strife and suffering with, “political resolve” – and still higher prices.

The IMF riots (and by riots I mean peaceful demonstrations dispersed by bullets, tanks and teargas) cause new panicked flights of capital and government bankruptcies. This economic arson has it’s bright side – for foreign corporations, who can then pick off remaining assets, such as the odd mining concession or port, at fire sale prices.”

As veteran researcher Dr. Paul Craig Roberts explains, the propaganda will certainly increase,characterizing Russia as the invasive aggressor:

“With Obama’s incompetent White House and State Department having botched Washington’s takeover of Ukraine, Washington has been at work shifting the blame to Russia. According to Washington and its presstitute media, the protests are orchestrated by the Russian government and have no sincere basis. If Russia sends in military units to protect the Russian citizens in the former Russian territories, the act will be used by Washington to confirm Washington’s propaganda of a Russian invasion (as in the case of Georgia), and Russia will be further demonized.”

I was able to call the IMF plan because the IMF plan is always the same. The Anglo global elite must destroy any and every nation to implement their global socialist technocracy. The technocracy is the friend of no tribe or peoples, and the bankers and looters who propagate this system are blind to their own good, as well as that of their posterity. But when you’re an economic hit man (or woman) brimming with hated and narcissistic self-interest, international looting scams are euphoric.


http://intellihub.com/imf-plan-loot-ukraine-revealed/

Fantastika
05-05-2014, 15:54
Arseniy ("Yats") the Arsonist will be surprised when he is deposed by IMF bureaucrats.

Ukraine, say hello to Greece!

AstarD
05-05-2014, 15:56
Greece is already coming out of recession. I think a Greek scenario would be preferable to civil war in the eyes of most Ukrainians.

Fantastika
05-05-2014, 16:11
Greece is already coming out of recession.

From BBC (not exactly hostile to IMF takeovers):

...Greece's economy has shrunk by nearly one-third since 2007. The budget predicts it will contract less than expected in 2013.

But the OECD says the Greek economy will shrink for another year in 2014.

Greece's 2014 budget forecasts 0.6% growth in 2014.

Mr Samaras said his government had exceeded four of five major targets it had set for 2013 - failing to bring down unemployment, which is around 27%.

The OECD group of developed economies forecasts a 0.4% contraction next year and says Greece's debt would not fall below 160% of GDP before 2020. ...


Looking really good!

IMF can stomp right in and stamp out any vestiges of prosperity in Ukraine.

And Ukraine is still not paying for imported gas and oil from Russia. Does EU expect Russia to continue with this national welfare?

Mary123
05-05-2014, 19:53
From BBC (not exactly hostile to IMF takeovers):

...Greece's economy has shrunk by nearly one-third since 2007. The budget predicts it will contract less than expected in 2013.

But the OECD says the Greek economy will shrink for another year in 2014.

Greece's 2014 budget forecasts 0.6% growth in 2014.

Mr Samaras said his government had exceeded four of five major targets it had set for 2013 - failing to bring down unemployment, which is around 27%.

The OECD group of developed economies forecasts a 0.4% contraction next year and says Greece's debt would not fall below 160% of GDP before 2020. ...


Looking really good!

IMF can stomp right in and stamp out any vestiges of prosperity in Ukraine.

And Ukraine is still not paying for imported gas and oil from Russia. Does EU expect Russia to continue with this national welfare?

Just wanted to add that a generally accepted statistical error is about 2+- %, so the above "growth" estimates are nothing but junk.

Fantastika
05-05-2014, 20:16
Just wanted to add that a generally accepted statistical error is about 2+- %, so the above estimates are nothing but junk.

In the US,the unemployment "statistics" are not only junk, they are spun through the sink disposal by the federales.

There are fewer people working than in 2008, but the official unemployment rate is only 6.3%.

The unemployment rate is defined as:

((unemployed people looking for work) divided by (total labor force))

So if the total labor force is 100 and there are 6 unemployed people looking for work, the unemployment rate is 6%.

In order to bring this rate down from the real 13%-18%, Obama's statisticians claim that fewer people are looking for work.

They have given up looking for a job, because it is impossible to find one, or they have accepted welfare or unemployment insurance.

The government thus claims they are not "unemployed," because they are not trying to get a job.

In fact, according to government statistics, US Labor force participation is the lowest since 1972!

Mary123
05-05-2014, 23:28
In the US,the unemployment "statistics" are not only junk, they are spun through the sink disposal by the federales.


In fact, not just unemployment statistics is questionable.

Back in 2008 I had a collegue, whose daughter was working in a kind of US agency or state department, which was working on economic mathematical modeling. As any credible organisation they had big smart computers, great universities diplomas, as well as a trusted statistical model to analize and predict the economy state.

And right before the crisis stroked, they were to give lections and and the usual PR stuff in several major US cities. Well... In fact, so shocking and "unmodelable" the reality was, that they had to cancel all the events and actually stopped answering questions both from general and non-general public.... because their model just didn't work.

Hope they don't use it nowadays.)))

Fantastika
06-05-2014, 00:15
Maybe the model did work...but the people in charge didn't want anyone to see the disaster it was predicting... :)

Last year, Obama changed the way GDP is calculated, they added "value of research" and "art, film and theatre royalties," etc.

http://www.moneynews.com/Advani/GDP-CPI-growth-investment/2013/08/07/id/519128/

The US is the only country using this new calculation, which adds about 3% to the old figure.

Which would imply the latest US GDP figure (Jan.-March) - growth of .1%, would be in, in old figures: -2.9%. :floating:

Mary123
06-05-2014, 00:17
Greece is already coming out of recession. I think a Greek scenario would be preferable to civil war in the eyes of most Ukrainians.

Poor peace is by all means better than a war, but the problem is that for just a promise of the Greek scenario they are being pushed into a civil war.

For instance, IMF says - If you won't retain East you won't be given the money... While, in fact IMF had been helping Africans in a more severe conditions.

I am not taking in the account all the snipers' scandals. Odessa. And finally, they bring army to the East instead of negotiation tables.

On the other hand, let's look at Crimea. People wanted, people voted, and people already have now what they voted for. Fast and efficient.

So my question is why the new Kiev authorities couldn't or didn't do in the same manner? They won in Maidan, they could ride anti-Yanukovich waves for decades to go... Yet...they prefered kind of stupid language laws and etc...instead of immediate elections. What was it? Low qualification of US advisers? Or Greek scenario had not been intended for them initially?

Mary123
06-05-2014, 00:32
Maybe the model did work...but the people in charge didn't want anyone to see the disaster it was predicting... :)



Well... this is too far...))) Do you think they pick up the least smart people in math modelling intentionally or were killing the wisdom in its routs? Hardly... Rather the model had been build that way. They used wrong assumptions from the beginning, then wrap them in math, and finally got the results.

Fantastika
06-05-2014, 00:59
In the same vein, I found this article today. Long and a bit tedious, but still a very nice analysis of the looting[s], sabotage, theft, and international financial criminalism.

...

Cash comes in for speculation in real estate and currency, then flees at the first whiff of trouble. A nation’s reserves can drain in days, hours. And when that happens, to seduce speculators into returning a nation’s own capital funds, the IMF demands these nations raise interest rates to 30%, 50% and 80%.”...



Interesting article, thanks for posting it...

That much interest, it's hard to resist...plus you could double it when the currency goes back down: the grivna is 11.4 to the dollar. Maybe it will float back down to 8 or so, that would add another 42.5% on your interest.

Just remember to invest in Hrivna, not dollars or Euros, which won't pay very much interest.

I wonder if the bank would let you take your money back out? IMF would probably write in a lot of regulations, small print on the contract, prohibiting speedy withdrawal...

I had some money in a bank in Crimea a few years ago, I put it there to get the 23% interest on it, and the grivna appreciated that year, so I got about 30%. Then I got paranoid and went to the bank. This bank also had branches in Russia, I transferred the sum there. I thought they would object to withdrawal, but they did not. It just took 2 hours, like every transaction there.

Fantastika
06-05-2014, 01:15
Well... this is too far...))) Do you think they pick up the least smart people in math modelling intentionally or were killing the wisdom in its routs? Hardly... Rather the model had been build that way. They used wrong assumptions from the beginning, then wrap them in math, and finally got the results.

The US government has long since stopped hiring people on the basis of their ability. They hire on the basis of race or gender, and now homosexuality?

My black female co-worker had a degree in psychology, but all of us were "computer scientists, computer programmers and computer engineers." The job description required 4 years of mathematics or engineering at a university, but she was hired, anyway. She was incompetent. I had to constantly correct her error-ridden non-working programs. She called everyone "racists" and was promoted out of our department. My black boss spent the whole day on the telephone, arguing with his ex-wife and proselytizing for his church.

I'm only mentioning race because these people were hired because of their race, not their ability.

This is the quality of US technical contractors. In some agencies, all (100%) of the contractors are black, hired under Section 8 laws.

So the fact that the math model failed is not a big surprise....

Mary123
06-05-2014, 11:20
Sounds very familiar. We also had similar labour market distortions in Soviet Union as well as have in today's Russia. From what I've read I know that in pre-revolutionary Russia the things were pretty the same.

I don't want to jump to the universal conclusions but it looks like math cleanness of the social systems just doesn't exist. And it is all due to human factor, isn't it? )))))

Fantastika
06-05-2014, 12:58
... it looks like math cleanness of the social systems just doesn't exist. And it is all due to human factor, isn't it? )))))

Are you talking about psychology, sociology, anthropology...?

Mary123
06-05-2014, 14:37
Are you talking about psychology, sociology, anthropology...?

Project management. )))) Ha-ha-ha....
It was developed to avoide and incorporate human factor.

Under social systems I meant any human interactions within groups (starting from 2 persons) which have formal social structures (defined by rules, policies, and patterns of behaviour or roles to fulfill), such as companies, teams, and etc. But sure collectively...the results of such interaction spread onto a higher levels (economy sectors, for instance).

In such systems Government doesn't injects incompetent people into companies directly, it just changes the policies within the given power granted by the society. But government isn't the only one source of "uncleanness". In my view any decision is "unclean" as it is taken by an individual with a limited set of competences and an experience which is usually emotionally marked as well. In other words, humans are not computers. They have no universal knowledge and thus humans often prefer intuition and heart to straight logic. So mistakes are unavoidable.

Fantastika
07-05-2014, 05:43
Project management. )))) Ha-ha-ha....
It was developed to avoide and incorporate human factor.

Under social systems I meant any human interactions within groups (starting from 2 persons) which have formal social structures (defined by rules, policies, and patterns of behaviour or roles to fulfill), such as companies, teams, and etc. But sure collectively...the results of such interaction spread onto a higher levels (economy sectors, for instance).

In such systems Government doesn't injects incompetent people into companies directly, it just changes the policies within the given power granted by the society. But government isn't the only one source of "uncleanness". In my view any decision is "unclean" as it is taken by an individual with a limited set of competences and an experience which is usually emotionally marked as well. In other words, humans are not computers. They have no universal knowledge and thus humans often prefer intuition and heart to straight logic. So mistakes are unavoidable.

You and Rusmeister, there *is* intelligent life here.

Project Management - I always wondered what those guys did. I worked in "Metrics" for a while. The government hired contractors to develop software while the government employees did very little but compile metrics on the contractors. The government needed to be certain the government was getting its moneys-worth.

So the contractors developed measuring tools to prove they were accomplishing the requirements of their contracts. Such milestones and measurements we were supposed to compile and report to the higher management. However it was the contractors devising their own milestones and then measuring their own progress, so of course they always had good metrics.

I had a lot of work to do, to combine all these reports into a weekly summary. This took 2-3 days. Being the wannabe hacker, and always about 2 years ahead of the government hi-tech-wise, I devised some macros, and a macro to run the macros, reducing the whole 2-3 day process to about 15 minutes. Fortunately my cubicle was hard to peer into from the aisle, so no one could see the graphs magically building themselves, data unrolling with columns of numbers, the screen flashing onto a new page every few seconds, producing 100 or so data-pages and graphs, while the macro was running.
:fireworks:
The boss never figured out that I was doing all her assigned work in 15 minutes, not 2-3 days. I put my program into motion during lunch hour, when no one was there to discover my computer monitor flickering like a manic lighting storm. However one time, I had wandered away and another boss saw it, and turned off my computer. He said that I wasn't to leave the computer running when I wasn't in the cubicle (security rules), but he didn't want to know anything about what I was doing: "I don't want to know nothing"!

Mary123
07-05-2014, 14:59
You and Rusmeister, there *is* intelligent life here.

In today's Russia the words "intelligent" and "educated" are occupied by the local liberal branch and their media, so be careful, some people might be offended.))))) But really it's a lot of good people here, they might just hanging in the other sections now or don't wanna write. )))




Project Management - I always wondered what those guys did.


Since you are in programming you might find it interesting. I know people who got promoted just for finishing PM courses.



I worked in "Metrics" for a while. The government hired contractors to develop software while the government employees did very little but compile metrics on the contractors. The government needed to be certain the government was getting its moneys-worth.

So the contractors developed measuring tools to prove they were accomplishing the requirements of their contracts. Such milestones and measurements we were supposed to compile and report to the higher management. However it was the contractors devising their own milestones and then measuring their own progress, so of course they always had good metrics.

I had a lot of work to do, to combine all these reports into a weekly summary. This took 2-3 days. Being the wannabe hacker, and always about 2 years ahead of the government hi-tech-wise, I devised some macros, and a macro to run the macros, reducing the whole 2-3 day process to about 15 minutes. Fortunately my cubicle was hard to peer into from the aisle, so no one could see the graphs magically building themselves, data unrolling with columns of numbers, the screen flashing onto a new page every few seconds, producing 100 or so data-pages and graphs, while the macro was running.
:fireworks:
The boss never figured out that I was doing all her assigned work in 15 minutes, not 2-3 days. I put my program into motion during lunch hour, when no one was there to discover my computer monitor flickering like a manic lighting storm. However one time, I had wandered away and another boss saw it, and turned off my computer. He said that I wasn't to leave the computer running when I wasn't in the cubicle (security rules), but he didn't want to know anything about what I was doing: "I don't want to know nothing"!

:applause:
At least you were lucky not to get a wrecking or a sabotage charges. ))))

FatAndy
07-05-2014, 15:03
In today's Russia the words "intelligent" and "educated" are occupied by the local liberal branch and their media,
Rotten intelligentsia, $h!t of the nation! (C) :devilish:

Fantastika
07-05-2014, 15:16
I started calling the politicians and increasingly-out-of-control bureaucracies in Washington "the intelligentsia" a few years ago. It seems appropriate.

Democrats turn into Progressives when they live in DC a few years, and Republicans morph into Democrats. It reminds me of situation in old CCCP, there was one party, and if you were in the party, you got the dacha, the car, the fat salary, and the superior attitude.:irule:

Mary123
07-05-2014, 17:25
Rotten intelligentsia, $h!t of the nation! (C) :devilish:

And...if you are not agree with their points, you immedeatly get the label of Stalinist, Putinist, and etc.

Thanks for the visual FatAndy.

Mary123
07-05-2014, 18:19
I started calling the politicians and increasingly-out-of-control bureaucracies in Washington "the intelligentsia" a few years ago. It seems appropriate.

This is interesting. Why?




Democrats turn into Progressives when they live in DC a few years, and Republicans morph into Democrats. It reminds me of situation in old CCCP, there was one party, and if you were in the party, you got the dacha, the car, the fat salary, and the superior attitude.:irule:

Well... never been to US, but it is same as in Russia today.
They recieve something to lose and do everything to keep it.

As to the US politics - a foreighn one, as I've never heard of a domestic one; they probably have no time for it )))) - it is always the same, just a different cover - either democratization or national interests. So what's the point to hold on for the names?

FatAndy
07-05-2014, 20:59
if you were in the party, you got the dacha, the car, the fat salary, and the superior attitude.:irule:
Only if you were on a high position in the party. Those-in-the-rows had no significant privileges...

There even was an anecdote of that times:

- Dear, I'll have 10 rub more per month and come home half an hour earlier...
- Oh, my God! You was promoted??!!
- No, they've excluded me off the party...