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Carl
15-04-2014, 20:29
Why would any self-respecting Russian woman choose to give birth in the Evil Empire? Clearly this reporter is lying!

A commission should be formed to investigate this member of the 5th column!! If found guilty of anti-Soviet..oops, I mean Russian agitation..
She should be expelled immediately!!

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/multimedia/video/the-growing-trend-of-birth-tourism/498054.html

FatAndy
15-04-2014, 20:47
She should be expelled immediately!
What are you saying, comrade??!! Expelling is too cruel... hang her up and send baby to orphanage. ;)

Carl
15-04-2014, 21:00
What are you saying, comrade??!! Expelling is too cruel... hang her up and send baby to orphanage. ;)

You are correct comrade.. And I apologize for my failings.. I was too caught up in the moment. But it is not only her that should be hung. If she has such sensibilities, surly her family does as well. They should all, up to the level of 2nd cousin, be expunged! We cannot leave any stone unturned in the hunt for enemies!! THEY ARE EVERYWHERE!!!! People of Expat Forum…BE DILIGENT! It is your duty!!!

FatAndy
15-04-2014, 21:47
You are correct comrade.. And I apologize for my failings.. I was too caught up in the moment. But it is not only her that should be hung. If she has such sensibilities, surly her family does as well. They should all, up to the level of 2nd cousin, be expunged! We cannot leave any stone unturned in the hunt for enemies!! THEY ARE EVERYWHERE!!!! People of Expat Forum…BE DILIGENT! It is your duty!!!
And again you're wrong, comrade. Why to 2nd cousin only?! :jawdrop: 7 generations up and down, including bulldozing graves of her grand-grand...-parents. :verycool:

Benedikt
15-04-2014, 21:59
And again you're wrong, comrade. Why to 2nd cousin only?! :jawdrop: 7 generations up and down, including bulldozing graves of her grand-grand...-parents. :verycool:


knowing though very well that your post and reply is to be taken tongue in cheek?

Sana
15-04-2014, 22:42
She is not lying. My female friend did suffer a lot while giving birth in one of the Russian maternity hospitals. She didn't have an opportunity to choose an expensive clinic, neither could she pay any bribes to nurses / doctors. She ended up being without certain necessary medications when she felt agonizing pain right after giving birth,

VicY
15-04-2014, 23:24
Yawn. :snoring::snoring::snoring:

Alan65
16-04-2014, 01:20
What are you saying, comrade??!! Expelling is too cruel... hang her up and send baby to orphanage. ;)

Are there any bed spaces left in Russian orphanages.

Carl
16-04-2014, 01:39
Are there any bed spaces left in Russian orphanages.

That hardly matters when we are taking about the dispatching of enemies that have only one goal..to try and damage the Soviet..oops, I did it again..I mean Russian state! Thankfully, with the dutiful diligence of patriots such as FatAndy and myself, their dastardly intentions, brought on by their jealous filled hatred and inferior feeling towards the Rodina will never be fulfilled!!

CaliforniaChic
16-04-2014, 06:06
I have heard a lot about the topic on Russian forums for travel, children and life in the U.S., but haven't heard anything about Russian birth tourism in English...until now. What do you guys think about this?



"Russian Women Flock to Miami to Give Birth to U.S. Citizens"

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-women-flock-to-miami-to-give-birth-to-us-citizens-video/498066.html

VicY
16-04-2014, 08:57
What a load of BS. :) At first I watched the video in the other thread and was not quite sure what exactly the editor was on about? It wasn't clear from her words.
Now that I've read her article, I smiled. Of course, what else would one expect from MT? ;) A perfectly one-sided account.
First, the number of women in Russia able to afford this kind of thing is minute: birth costs are abominable in the US. And I actually have a friend who in fact CAME BACK to Russia to give birth, as they couldn't afford it in the US.

My two cousins, a good friend of mine gave birth well after they were 25. No one kept telling them that they were too old (although, according to official Russian medical thought they were indeed classed as "advanced age" :D ), no one pushed them to stay in the hospital.
The latter did spend the last month at maternity ward because her urine test suddenly turned bad and she was given a choice of whether she wished to remain at home or at the hospital. Her maternity hospital was a state one and, according to her, it was pretty good. It was in 2005.

My cousin gave birth in a town of Tver' and no one was suggesting that she was a "prostitute", talking about "you knew how to spread your legs", etc, even though she was going to be a single mum. Also, in that very same hospital husbands were allowed to remain with their wives too. It was in 2001.

Just as with everything in Russia, medical care, doctors may vary greatly across the country, although I am pretty sure that nowadays private maternity hospitals should be able to provide most of what any foreign maternity hospital would. It's about finding a good doctor, really, not just about getting into a good hospital.

And the hassle of getting the visa to the US and the stress of being interrogated at the border by an immigration official? Crazy. I'd never do that!

So I wish to know what was the sample size for this article? She only really gives a more or less detailed account of one woman. Not very representstive, to say the least.

The comments following the article are also hilarious :D As per usual.

Sana
16-04-2014, 09:53
I have heard a lot about the topic on Russian forums for travel, children and life in the U.S., but haven't heard anything about Russian birth tourism in English...until now. What do you guys think about this?







"Russian Women Flock to Miami to Give Birth to U.S. Citizens"



http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-women-flock-to-miami-to-give-birth-to-us-citizens-video/498066.html


Thanks for posting it. I find it quite informative and can only repeat that I said above:

My female friend did suffer a lot while giving birth in one of the Russian maternity hospitals. She didn't have an opportunity to choose an expensive clinic, neither could she pay any bribes to nurses / doctors. She ended up being without certain necessary medications when she felt agonizing pain right after giving birth,

The article is as truthful as everything covered in the Moscow Times,
Unfortunately our state maternity hospitals haven't changed in the last 15 years.

FatAndy
16-04-2014, 09:58
The article is as truthful as everything covered in the Moscow Times,
Moscow Times never lies! :agree:


Thankfully, with the dutiful diligence of patriots such as FatAndy and myself, their dastardly intentions, brought on by their jealous filled hatred and inferior feeling towards the Rodina will never be fulfilled!!
We'll overcome them all, comrade, and jump on their bodies! :ak:

vossy7
16-04-2014, 10:01
This is very real but I agree with what VicY in saying the costs are very high , I mentioned in an earlier post that the wife of one of our employees did this last year and another has also gone through the exercise.....in Miami also.
There are a lot of Russian people in Miami driving this renting rooms et al for the stay etc.
I asked what the price is and the breakdown was....
The doctor who monitors through the last two months and also delivers the baby.....~$4.5k, the hospital fees for a normal birth ~$2K , c-section +$1K, plus all lodgings ........all for an Uncle Sam passport :confused1:

Remington
16-04-2014, 10:46
This is very real but I agree with what VicY in saying the costs are very high , I mentioned in an earlier post that the wife of one of our employees did this last year and another has also gone through the exercise.....in Miami also.
There are a lot of Russian people in Miami driving this renting rooms et al for the stay etc.
I asked what the price is and the breakdown was....
The doctor who monitors through the last two months and also delivers the baby.....~$4.5k, the hospital fees for a normal birth ~$2K , c-section +$1K, plus all lodgings ........all for an Uncle Sam passport :confused1:

This report is true. Many Mexican women do this too and they pay nothing for medical cost. They do it by lying on the application about their employment, home address, etc. for billing purpose. Once the hospital figured the application is fake, the patient mysteriously disappears after treatment back to their home country or somewhere else. The hospital is stuck with an unpaid bill. US law forbid hospitals from refusing to treat patients who cannot pay for treatment.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/22/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-federal-laws-requires-hospitals-p/

FatAndy
16-04-2014, 10:56
This report is true. Many Mexican women do this too and they pay nothing for medical cost. They do it by lying on the application about their employment, home address, etc. for billing purpose. Once the hospital figured the application is fake, the patient mysteriously disappears after treatment back to their home country or somewhere else. The hospital is stuck with an unpaid bill. US law forbid hospitals from refusing to treat patients who cannot pay for treatment.
In Russian it is called халява (smth for free). :11629:

Benedikt
16-04-2014, 11:45
In Russian it is called халява (smth for free). :11629:



they are US citizens? what then about the russian -system-? do they have insurance, can they get into detsky sad or the like?
or since these females ( husband or at least the father or producer of the kid) are rich anyway, they can do away with all these. and have private insurance here, only go to the -western- clinics etc...
MT come on, this will be your next assignment, let us know of the outcome.

FatAndy
16-04-2014, 12:25
they are US citizens?
AFAIK, if their mother and father are RF citizens, and the birth on US territory is registered in nearest RF consulate, they're also RF citizens automatically. The rest is a question to intl lawyers.

AstarD
16-04-2014, 13:52
Any person born on US soil is automatically a US citizen if his parents want. And the mother at least is allowed to remain with the new citizen until said new citizen is 18.

VicY
16-04-2014, 23:29
This report is true. Many Mexican women do this too and they pay nothing for medical cost. They do it by lying on the application about their employment, home address, etc. for billing purpose. Once the hospital figured the application is fake, the patient mysteriously disappears after treatment back to their home country or somewhere else. The hospital is stuck with an unpaid bill. US law forbid hospitals from refusing to treat patients who cannot pay for treatment.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/22/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-federal-laws-requires-hospitals-p/

Mainland Chinese women do exactly the same in Hong Kong. The recent crackdown on this practice helped to change the situation for the better, though.

TolkoRaz
16-04-2014, 23:31
Any person born on US soil is automatically a US citizen if his parents want. And the mother at least is allowed to remain with the new citizen until said new citizen is 18.

Even though the parents might be illegal immigrants?

VicY
16-04-2014, 23:47
This is very real but I agree with what VicY in saying the costs are very high , I mentioned in an earlier post that the wife of one of our employees did this last year and another has also gone through the exercise.....in Miami also.
There are a lot of Russian people in Miami driving this renting rooms et al for the stay etc.
I asked what the price is and the breakdown was....
The doctor who monitors through the last two months and also delivers the baby.....~$4.5k, the hospital fees for a normal birth ~$2K , c-section +$1K, plus all lodgings ........all for an Uncle Sam passport :confused1:

Well, this must be the cheapest option for the US, because in my friend's case the overall amount was around 15K. That would have been for a natural birth and three days at the hospital.

CaliforniaChic
17-04-2014, 00:19
This report is true. Many Mexican women do this too and they pay nothing for medical cost. They do it by lying on the application about their employment, home address, etc. for billing purpose. Once the hospital figured the application is fake, the patient mysteriously disappears after treatment back to their home country or somewhere else. The hospital is stuck with an unpaid bill. US law forbid hospitals from refusing to treat patients who cannot pay for treatment.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/22/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-federal-laws-requires-hospitals-p/

Remington, there are over 20 Spanish speaking countries in Latin America. The most annoying thing is when I hear non-Hispanics say "All Mexicans" or "All Cubans" or "All Puerto Ricans" do such and such. In L.A. there are plenty of immigrants from Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Columbia and other countries as well. So please don't generalize that just because someone is brown and speaks Spanish, that they behave in a certain way or are from a certain country.

In the case of "faking" information, actually illegals have access to emergency medicaid and do not need to lie about anything. Now I have read online about Chinese, Koreans and Russians, who for the most part can afford to travel as tourists to the U.S., also being birth tourists in our country. Many of them afford to pay every single cent owed for the birth and delivery, yet when a complication occurs and the prices skyrocket, a lot of them do skip out on the bill and many are advised to do so by the agencies assisting them.

I believe the constitution should be reinterpreted, either that or the U.S. should simply ask the following questions on the visa applications "Are you pregnant" "If so, do you plan to deliver in the U.S.?" Once these boxes are ticket a visa should be denied, or if the person lies on the application, then they should be turned away at customs and on the next flight back home.

I am tired of the U.S. being so generous to people who want to take advantage of our country.

robertmf
17-04-2014, 00:22
Even though the parents might be illegal immigrants?

I've heard this citizenship at birth isn't being validated esp. at the border States. Illegals and any birthing tend to be booted

CaliforniaChic
17-04-2014, 00:27
Any person born on US soil is automatically a US citizen if his parents want. And the mother at least is allowed to remain with the new citizen until said new citizen is 18.

Actually, the parent's of a child born in the U.S., regardless if they are illegal or legal short term visitors like tourists, have no legal right to remain in the U.S. with the child. The child can later sponsor the parent's at 21, but until they are sponsored they cannot legally immigrate to the U.S. Countries in Latin America do give the parents of a local born child automatic permanent residency though.


I've heard this citizenship at birth isn't being validated esp. at the border States. Illegals and any birthing tend to be booted



As long as a child is born on U.S. soil, regardless of the parents' legal status, then child is a U.S. citizen. Until an actual reinterpretation of that amendment is made, or until the law is changed, unfortunately these births are still valid. Our U.S. population is one of the fastest growing in the world in part to all of these legal and illegal birth tourists.

robertmf
17-04-2014, 01:40
As long as a child is born on U.S. soil, regardless of the parents' legal status, then child is a U.S. citizen. Until an actual reinterpretation of that amendment is made, or until the law is changed, unfortunately these births are still valid. Our U.S. population is one of the fastest growing in the world in part to all of these legal and illegal birth tourists.

US birthright citizenship (https://cis.org/birthright-citizenship)

Fantastika
18-04-2014, 05:26
Remington, there are over 20 Spanish speaking countries in Latin America. The most annoying thing is when I hear non-Hispanics say "All Mexicans" or "All Cubans" or "All Puerto Ricans" do such and such. In L.A. there are plenty of immigrants from Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Columbia and other countries as well. So please don't generalize that just because someone is brown and speaks Spanish, that they behave in a certain way or are from a certain country.


It is not the people who generalize, it is the media and the government. The laws giving preferential treatment, for example state "Hispanic" they don't say "Puerto Rican, Venezuelan," etc.





I believe the constitution should be reinterpreted, either that or the U.S. should simply ask the following questions on the visa applications "Are you pregnant" "If so, do you plan to deliver in the U.S.?" Once these boxes are ticket a visa should be denied, or if the person lies on the application, then they should be turned away at customs and on the next flight back home.

I am tired of the U.S. being so generous to people who want to take advantage of our country.

Hispanics don't check boxes on application forms, they simply run across the
border.

Fantastika
18-04-2014, 05:37
If anyone wants to come to USA and stay here, they should get ticket, and when airplane lands, at customs, claim "political asylum," based on well-founded fear of "persecution and/or torture" in their native country.

The immigration service will, 99% of the time, grant immediate access to US, and the "refugee" is supposed to appear later at a hearing to grant permanent status, maybe in 6 months. Many Chinese are now using this system to "emigrate" to US. 99% of them don't show up for the 6-month appointment, and 99% are not deported.

Now we can expect flood of Ukrainian-speakers from Donetsk claiming "persecution and torture" by the Fascist Army of the Dark Empire, and flood of Russian-speaking immigrants from Kiev claiming "persecution and torture" by the Revolutionary Guards of the New Glorious People's Republic.

Sana
18-04-2014, 13:55
Fantastika, you are... fantastika!!!! I guess, RL may use the above mentioned opportunity instead of relocating to Thailand.

Judge
18-04-2014, 15:33
It's really got nothing to do with the US being a safer place to give birth,it's all about trying to get into the US through the back door..
From the article, the price is what $20000 -$50000, for this money you can easily find a private birth house in Moscow..

Fantastika
18-04-2014, 19:43
Remington, there are over 20 Spanish speaking countries in Latin America. The most annoying thing is when I hear non-Hispanics say "All Mexicans" or "All Cubans" or "All Puerto Ricans" do such and such.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but now you have me thinking.

I agree, I have noticed huge difference between Puerto Ricans I know in New York, Cubans I met in Coral Gables, the Mexicans here now, a real Spaniard, El Salvadorans, my Peruvian computer geek (works for the IMF), etc. Mostly they define themselves as individuals, and so do I.

Asians - they are labeled as the same whether they are from Philippines, India, China, etc. There is a vast difference in language between Korean and Sanskrit, at least with Hispanics, they all speak Spanish, unless the social scientists are including Portuguese-speaking Brazil, and the Caribbean Islands, a plethora of languages.

And the cultures are different in Uzbekistan and Indonesia, and so on. I don't think my Indonesian friend would care to be lumped in with Uzbeks. He is Chinese and he doesn't even like to be lumped in with mainland Chinese.

And blacks, why are they all labeled "blacks"? When I rented rooms in my house near DC, I had tenants from Zambia, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Ghana... they don't think of themselves as black, either, they define themselves as Nigerians, Zambians, etc. Well, most of them thought of themselves as Americans, but not black Americans.

Even whites, they are not universally one type. Germans are not the same as Ukrainians, and Spanish are not the same as Turks. Of course, to make more divisions in the world, social scientists cleave off Middle Eastern people, and call them "Arabian"; even Mexicans could more properly be called "white" because their ancestors were mostly from Spain.

I may be Irish, and there is a stereotype that they drink. May be true. I was in the airport at customs line, and I was talking to a Puerto Rican lady and I said (because I used to play in a rock band with Puerto Ricans) they are great musicians, they have a natural rhythm. The hypersensitive woman frowned at my good-will compliment and huffed, "That is a stereotype." Huff, huff. I also get funny looks from American blacks when I start talking about basketball (I am writing a book about a basketball player, I do interviews, and I am basketball fanatic) so they are thinking I am a racist because I like to talk about BBall? Good Grief!

Social scientists (scientwits) are doing this, paid by the government. Putting people into categories, classifying and pigeon-holing human beings, evaluating them on the basis of their nationality or ethnicity of color, least of all their ability. For all the well-intentioned programs of the government, relying on sociologists and psychologists and other mental midgets for the rationale for all this diversification into disparate groups, all it does is divide people into antagonistic groups.

For one party (no it's not Republicans), it's a way to gain votes and power. Keep everyone divided and envious of the other groups.

AstarD
18-04-2014, 21:38
Actually, the parent's of a child born in the U.S., regardless if they are illegal or legal short term visitors like tourists, have no legal right to remain in the U.S. with the child. The child can later sponsor the parent's at 21, but until they are sponsored they cannot legally immigrate to the U.S. Countries in Latin America do give the parents of a local born child automatic permanent residency though.
I think in practice you'll find that it's the case that they are allowed to stay and they can receive benefits on behalf of their minor child.

Arthuro
19-04-2014, 07:25
What's amazing is that assuming only upper-class (or richer) could afford to go to Miami - why they choose US?

1. Yes, lots of cost
2. Yes, no legal way of migration. But don't they have a more direct way, having money

3. travelling for the child doesn't give travelling options for the parents.

4. tax system of US citizens on worldwide income, that only burdens a passport holder, given he is rich ( and we're talking about rich)

VicY
19-04-2014, 11:08
All very valid points!

Remington
19-04-2014, 15:17
I think in practice you'll find that it's the case that they are allowed to stay and they can receive benefits on behalf of their minor child.

That's not true. Foreign parents do not have legal rights to stay in US or receive US benefits because their child is US citizen. When child turns 21 years old and s/he can sponsor their parents to immigrate to US.

Fantastika
20-04-2014, 17:16
That's not true. Foreign parents do not have legal rights to stay in US or receive US benefits because their child is US citizen. When child turns 21 years old and s/he can sponsor their parents to immigrate to US.

I am not no expert about this, but under Obama/Holder, there is no enforcement of immigration laws. Obama's guidelines prohibit law enforcement from questioning possible illegals. The police can be accused of racism or even charged with civil rights violations if they inquire about someone's immigration status.

This extends to government programs, I would guess. The food stamp bureaucrat is not allowed, during the interview, to ask the applicant about his/her legal status. This would be "discrimination" as our Attorney General says.

Remington
20-04-2014, 18:37
I am not no expert about this, but under Obama/Holder, there is no enforcement of immigration laws. Obama's guidelines prohibit law enforcement from questioning possible illegals. The police can be accused of racism or even charged with civil rights violations if they inquire about someone's immigration status.

However, if they got arrested for any crimes they committed or caught working illegally and police can hand them over to immigration agent for deportation proceedings after they served their time in jail or prison. Legally, police can't stop anyone to check their documents without a probable cause but that could change.


This extends to government programs, I would guess. The food stamp bureaucrat is not allowed, during the interview, to ask the applicant about his/her legal status. This would be "discrimination" as our Attorney General says.

Illegals will have to provide fictitious SSN to receive federal or state benefits. Using fictitious SSN or lying on the benefit application is a federal offense, prison time, deportation and barred from re-entry. Many of them got caught doing this because they were careless.

CaliforniaChic
22-04-2014, 12:43
It is not the people who generalize, it is the media and the government. The laws giving preferential treatment, for example state "Hispanic" they don't say "Puerto Rican, Venezuelan," etc.





Hispanics don't check boxes on application forms, they simply run across the
border.

When a person specifically mentions the phrase "all Mexicans" then they ARE generalizing. You did not grow up in the U.S. as a Hispanic and until you have walked in those shoes, you cannot say it is purely the media. I have been generalized very often by individuals such as yourself, especially those who know little about any of the Latin cultures.

And yes another ignorant statement, perhaps you should change your name to Fantastikkka? Do learn some U.S. history and specifically how much of the western U.S. states belonged to Spain and then Mexico. There are MANY Hispanics as well as Chinese and Japanese, whose families have been in the U.S. for generations and generations.

CaliforniaChic
22-04-2014, 12:49
I think in practice you'll find that it's the case that they are allowed to stay and they can receive benefits on behalf of their minor child.


They are still not allowed to stay, but if some do so then that is their decision and they must know that at any moment they can be deported as they have no legal right to be in the U.S. Some other countries do give automatic citizenship to children born within their borders and the parents of the minor may apply for family reunification via their child, but this is (thankfully) not the case in the U.S.

Remington
22-04-2014, 13:07
And yes another ignorant statement, perhaps you should change your name to Fantastikkka? Do learn some U.S. history and specifically how much of the western U.S. states belonged to Spain and then Mexico. There are MANY Hispanics as well as Chinese and Japanese, whose families have been in the U.S. for generations and generations.

I don't have problems with Hispanics or Chineses living in US as long as they're legal. It's the illegals I have problems with since they take advantage of the system by stealing government benefits, not paying for hospital expenses or taxes and they're a burden to US taxpayers. It's no wonder California is broke and Arizona have draconian laws to check illegals for document without probable cause. Do they rightfully deserve amnesty from Obama for breaking the laws? I don't think so.

CaliforniaChic
22-04-2014, 13:11
What's amazing is that assuming only upper-class (or richer) could afford to go to Miami - why they choose US?

1. Yes, lots of cost
2. Yes, no legal way of migration. But don't they have a more direct way, having money

3. travelling for the child doesn't give travelling options for the parents.

4. tax system of US citizens on worldwide income, that only burdens a passport holder, given he is rich ( and we're talking about rich)

Yes, I am also stumped by this. Assuming most of these families are upper-middle class or wealthy, they can afford alternative immigration programs in Europe which would provide for citizenship for the whole family within 5-7 years, and not 30 years in the U.S. (in the case of the parents being sponsored at the age of 23-25). Canada seems to be a better option if they really want a decent second passport for their child, and even Latin American passports offer EU visa free access. I specifically asked such parents on a forum about this, they say it is an option for their child but they are clearly not well-informed about U.S. tax issues. And personally #4 would be a deal breaker for me if I was a wealthy foreigner, and even now as an American abroad the taxation based on citizenship and not on residency is a TRUE pain! I mentioned this to these parents but they think it will be a walk in the park and that filing a tax return requires no proof or anything. For many American expats working abroad it can actually be harder to prove you don't have to pay the U.S. government any taxes. I have watched some of the beautifull videos those Miami birth tourism companies have made for their sites, and it does bug me that the majority of the parents say they deliver in the U.S. mainly because of superior medical quality and service, total lie. If it wasn't for the citizenship, 99% of them would deliver in Europe which is cheaper, closer to home and has just as good medical quality services as in the U.S.

CaliforniaChic
22-04-2014, 13:18
I don't have problems with Hispanics or Chineses living in US as long as they're legal. It's the illegals I have problems with since they take advantage of the system by stealing government benefits, not paying for hospital expenses or taxes and they're a burden to US taxpayers. It's no wonder California is broke and Arizona have draconian laws to check illegals for document without probable cause. Do they rightfully deserve amnesty from Obama for breaking the laws? I don't think so.

I also do not support illegals nor birth tourists (who are technically legal in a sense as they have legal permission to enter our country). Do they deserve amnesty? Of course not. But saying it is only a group of individuals who do this is what bothers me. I closely follow these topics and trust me, there are many Hispanics who do become social charges, but there are also Chinese, Koreans, Russians and Middle Easterners specifically delivering and leaving us the taxpayers to foot the bill. This has recently become a huge issue in the Northern Mariana Islands as Chinese were able to enter there visa free. I think the U.S. embassy should reject any and all future visa applications made by the parents who lied on their visa applications and stated "tourism" as their main purpose of entry to the U.S., but until things get tougher people will sadly be there to take advantage of this.

CaliforniaChic
22-04-2014, 13:22
In my research I have even come across sites (Russian and Ukrainian), which for a fee, will fill out a birth tourist's application so that they can qualify for emergency Medicaid, and they announce this as "a cost effective" and "very cheap" way to deliver in the U.S.

Fantastika
22-04-2014, 14:20
When a person specifically mentions the phrase "all Mexicans" then they ARE generalizing. You did not grow up in the U.S. as a Hispanic and until you have walked in those shoes, you cannot say it is purely the media. I have been generalized very often by individuals such as yourself, especially those who know little about any of the Latin cultures.

You sound like a bigot. And I never generalize with Spanish-speaking perople. The first thing I ask is what country are they from. But you think such a question is "racist." It's the first question I get asked in Russia, and no, there's no "racism" involved.

My 3-year-old nephew wandered out onto the sidewalk one day and was attacked by a "gang" of three 5-year-old blacks. Mom arrived a minute later but my nephew had a couple of broken ribs and sneakerprints on his face, and required 51 stitches in his scalp.

"Until you walk a mile in my shoes" you don't know SH!T

It doesn't matter what good-willed people do or say, in a sincere attempt to create at understanding - say "I have a lot of Mexican friends" or talk about basketball, everything to you is just more evidence of "generalizing" or "stereotyping," simply proves your accusations of "racism."

And to get back to my ORIGINAL POINT, after you threw your KKK race card, "Hispanic" is NOT any more of a generalization than "Asian" or "Black" or 'White."


And yes another ignorant statement, perhaps you should change your name to Fantastikkka? Do learn some U.S. history and specifically how much of the western U.S. states belonged to Spain and then Mexico. There are MANY Hispanics as well as Chinese and Japanese, whose families have been in the U.S. for generations and generations.

Oh, how clever. "kkk".

I worked with this black woman, a bigot who would throw out workplace accusations of racism, so she would get promotions. She was from a small city in Alabama. I asked her one day if she knew XX. (XX is a semi-famous minister of a church from her hometown). She was surprised I knew the man, and loudly said "How do you know him, from the Klan!?" Reality is I knew him from the benevolent association my church had with his church.

Your "reading" of "U.S. history" selectively begins at a certain point - that point being *after* Spain-Mexico killed all the Aztecs in Mexico. Annihilated every single last one of them. Yeah, so Mexico "owned" Southwest US 200 years ago, after they committed genocide on the original inhabitants.

Fantastika
22-04-2014, 14:34
However, if they got arrested for any crimes they committed or caught working illegally and police can hand them over to immigration agent for deportation proceedings after they served their time in jail or prison. Legally, police can't stop anyone to check their documents without a probable cause but that could change.

A million illegals a year, and a thousand deportations. System is really working quite well.


Illegals will have to provide fictitious SSN to receive federal or state benefits. Using fictitious SSN or lying on the benefit application is a federal offense, prison time, deportation and barred from re-entry. Many of them got caught doing this because they were careless.

Except that these laws are mostly not enforced.

I only looked up food stamps, but you don't need a SSN for them:

http://www.sfhsa.org/asset/BenefitsSFLITE/Food_Stamps_Immigration.pdf

I'm sure there are "workarounds" to get a lot of other benefits. And it's illegal for a hospital to turn away anyone who shows up in the Emergency room.

FatAndy
22-04-2014, 14:40
:emote_popcorn:
Comrades, please, chill down a bit...

CaliforniaChic
22-04-2014, 20:14
You sound like a bigot. And I never generalize with Spanish-speaking perople. The first thing I ask is what country are they from. But you think such a question is "racist." It's the first question I get asked in Russia, and no, there's no "racism" involved.

My 3-year-old nephew wandered out onto the sidewalk one day and was attacked by a "gang" of three 5-year-old blacks. Mom arrived a minute later but my nephew had a couple of broken ribs and sneakerprints on his face, and required 51 stitches in his scalp.

"Until you walk a mile in my shoes" you don't know SH!T

It doesn't matter what good-willed people do or say, in a sincere attempt to create at understanding - say "I have a lot of Mexican friends" or talk about basketball, everything to you is just more evidence of "generalizing" or "stereotyping," simply proves your accusations of "racism."

And to get back to my ORIGINAL POINT, after you threw your KKK race card, "Hispanic" is NOT any more of a generalization than "Asian" or "Black" or 'White."



Oh, how clever. "kkk".

I worked with this black woman, a bigot who would throw out workplace accusations of racism, so she would get promotions. She was from a small city in Alabama. I asked her one day if she knew XX. (XX is a semi-famous minister of a church from her hometown). She was surprised I knew the man, and loudly said "How do you know him, from the Klan!?" Reality is I knew him from the benevolent association my church had with his church.

Your "reading" of "U.S. history" selectively begins at a certain point - that point being *after* Spain-Mexico killed all the Aztecs in Mexico. Annihilated every single last one of them. Yeah, so Mexico "owned" Southwest US 200 years ago, after they committed genocide on the original inhabitants.

I am not a bigot, I am not the one who said "Hispanics don't check boxes on application forms, they simply run across the border." If you think that is a polite, objective and non-racist statement then please think again, it is a rude and insulting statement to the many Hispanic families who have legally immigrated to the U.S. and who have been there for generations trying to build a better life and who actively contribute to our nation.

I am not here to argue with you or with others- I have no ill-will, hatred, or resentment toward any group of individuals. I simply do not like when people say inappropriate or blanket statements about groups of individuals. It is unfortunate your nephew had to experience that. If hate crimes and discrimination are to ever be eliminated then it needs to begin at the individual and family level, and a simple statement you may find funny or harmless can in fact cause more harm to individuals then intended, so people should consider how they word things and what point they are trying to make when discussing a group of individuals.

penka
22-04-2014, 20:35
A few thoughts on the subject, since it is interconnected with the immigration question.

- I do not think, it is right, the citizenship is granted by the virtue of birth alone.

- Reading CC really made me think, yet again, the USA must accept some burden of immigration, since after each democratic intervention, started by the US government, it is us - Europe and Sweden in particular, that are forced to accept the refugees. Payed for by the regular taxpayers - not the offshore hoes. Whilst when the regular taxpayer needs any help - there is no money. And the pensions of the regular folks are not only taxed, but also getting cut. Waiting for them being axed, when it will be my turn to retire.

Finally, whilst the American citizens are treated with a greeting when crossing any Euro border, the Euro citizens, like my beloved ex nr 2, a man of an ancient and historical heritage, impeccable manners and an American English accent is regularly given the 1st degree by some overfed premenstrual b*ch or a local redneck, who cannot spell right.

Remington
22-04-2014, 21:01
A million illegals a year, and a thousand deportations. System is really working quite well.

How many illegals are currently living in US? 11 million. A thousand deportations a year hardly makes a difference.


Except that these laws are mostly not enforced.

The laws are enforced but outdated and the police are limited to what they can do. US needs to overhaul its illegal immigration laws since the last one was in 1996.


I only looked up food stamps, but you don't need a SSN for them:

Wrong. You do need SSN to apply for food stamps or SNAP.


I'm sure there are "workarounds" to get a lot of other benefits. And it's illegal for a hospital to turn away anyone who shows up in the Emergency room.

Sure there are workarounds if they know how to beat the system but many of them get caught eventually. Govt is going to have to change the laws to turn away illegals from medical treatments if they don't have insurance or the means to pay for it. That will prevent many illegals from trying to cross the border into US to get free medical treatment.

Fantastika
22-04-2014, 21:32
I am not a bigot...

I am not here to argue with you or with others- I have no ill-will, hatred, or resentment toward any group of individuals.

Did you get the message from FatAndy to knock it off?

YOU are the one STARTED this, who threw the race card, who implied I was in the KKK.

What a despicable thing to say about someone you have no knowledge of.

Just FYI, again, when anyone says, sincerely, something complimentary about a group of people, you are only looking to be a victim when you complain that this "stereotyping".

CaliforniaChic
23-04-2014, 00:11
Did you get the message from FatAndy to knock it off?

YOU are the one STARTED this, who threw the race card, who implied I was in the KKK.

What a despicable thing to say about someone you have no knowledge of.

Just FYI, again, when anyone says, sincerely, something complimentary about a group of people, you are only looking to be a victim when you complain that this "stereotyping".

Yes, I did get his message, but you called me a bigot so what do you want me to do sit around and stay quiet? No, I have a right to defend myself and my opinions. And I didn't start this, I replied to Remington and NOT to you, you stuck your nose in by saying a certain group of individuals "run across the border" which is in fact not a complimentary nor nice statement.

I am done with this, I don't want to argue, so stop instigating and saying things to me already, I am here to discuss birth tourism to the U.S. and that is it!

Periwinkle
23-04-2014, 00:43
That's not true. Foreign parents do not have legal rights to stay in US or receive US benefits because their child is US citizen. When child turns 21 years old and s/he can sponsor their parents to immigrate to US.

What is the official line is not important when many illegal parents do stay and collect benefits for their children all the while receiving subsidies for themselves.... It is generally the case that the parents are allowed to stay hence the term anchor baby.....
Why is the site moving like molasses......soooo slow....

CaliforniaChic
23-04-2014, 01:18
What is the official line is not important when many illegal parents do stay and collect benefits for their children all the while receiving subsidies for themselves.... It is generally the case that the parents are allowed to stay hence the term anchor baby.....
Why is the site moving like molasses......soooo slow....

Yes, you are right legally they cannot stay but in reality many do. All of this birth tourism and anchor baby stuff would all disappear if birth right citizenship were to be abolished. I highly doubt though we will see this change in our lifetime.

CaliforniaChic
23-04-2014, 01:32
A few thoughts on the subject, since it is interconnected with the immigration question.

- I do not think, it is right, the citizenship is granted by the virtue of birth alone.

- Reading CC really made me think, yet again, the USA must accept some burden of immigration, since after each democratic intervention, started by the US government, it is us - Europe and Sweden in particular, that are forced to accept the refugees. Payed for by the regular taxpayers - not the offshore hoes. Whilst when the regular taxpayer needs any help - there is no money. And the pensions of the regular folks are not only taxed, but also getting cut. Waiting for them being axed, when it will be my turn to retire.

Finally, whilst the American citizens are treated with a greeting when crossing any Euro border, the Euro citizens, like my beloved ex nr 2, a man of an ancient and historical heritage, impeccable manners and an American English accent is regularly given the 1st degree by some overfed premenstrual b*ch or a local redneck, who cannot spell right.

Penka, I agree I think jus soli/automatic birthright citizenship is flawed and in this day and age it seems outdated. Most countries have moved away from jus soli, but yet the U.S. and Canada remain the last two "developed" countries who still utilize this system. A lot of the Russian birth tourists said they are contributing to our economy by staying in the U.S., paying for their births (in most cases), spending money on living expenses and by giving the U.S. a future tax paying citizen. I however believe that the U.S. loses more than it gains in such cases. I mean such children will pay university tuition prices as a citizen and not as an international student, they will want to apply for university admissions and scholarships, increasing competition for the local born and raised Americans and of course this will bring increased job competition. Not to mention the fact that many older parents who are sponsored by their adult children, are eligible for Medicare, pensions, welfare, food stamps, and later citizenship after living in the U.S. for a few years. So the parents of such "Americans" have not paid into the system yet want to reap the benfits for their children and later themselves, is it a win-win situation, I wouldn't say so.

Fantastika
23-04-2014, 04:37
Yes, I did get his message, but you called me a bigot so what do you want me to do sit around and stay quiet? No, I have a right to defend myself and my opinions. And I didn't start this, I replied to Remington and NOT to you, you stuck your nose in by saying a certain group of individuals "run across the border" which is in fact not a complimentary nor nice statement.

I am done with this, I don't want to argue, so stop instigating and saying things to me already, I am here to discuss birth tourism to the U.S. and that is it!

Am I talking to an 11-year-old?

I called you a bigot AFTER you said I was in the KKK.

Fantastika
23-04-2014, 05:11
Yes, I did get his message, but you called me a bigot so what do you want me to do sit around and stay quiet? No, I have a right to defend myself and my opinions. And I didn't start this, I replied to Remington and NOT to you, you stuck your nose in by saying a certain group of individuals "run across the border" which is in fact not a complimentary nor nice statement.

I am done with this, I don't want to argue, so stop instigating and saying things to me already, I am here to discuss birth tourism to the U.S. and that is it!


Yes, I did get his message, but you called me a bigot so what do you want me to do sit around and stay quiet? No, I have a right to defend myself and my opinions. And I didn't start this, I replied to Remington and NOT to you, you stuck your nose in by saying a certain group of individuals "run across the border" which is in fact not a complimentary nor nice statement.

I am done with this, I don't want to argue, so stop instigating and saying things to me already, I am here to discuss birth tourism to the U.S. and that is it!

As far as whining about being "generalized," well, welcome to the adult world. We are all stereotyped, what makes you so special that you complain about words? I am talking about violent racism, not some words.

I was in my church, in South Miami, in a closed room, doing drug counseling with someone, when 3 young blacks, wearing Mickey Mouse masks, burst in with guns drawn, ripped all the phones out, and demanded drugs and money. They told us to get face down on the ground, and I thought, "I'm too young to die like this." Idiots thought they could find drugs in a drug-rehab agency.

Should I hate blacks? Being robbed and at the mercy of badly-educated black thugs is a damn good reason. But my best friend here and now is black, he likes me because I am more intelligent than most of the people around here, and I like him because he's gone past the race issue. But mostly I like the guy because he has an enthusiastic personality. He's not afraid of anything, he's a very serene guy.

I like to surround myself, and I love people who are creative and enthusiastic about life. Too many people are whining about this or that, they will never get to the top because they prevent themselves from achieving success, they give 101 rationalizations why they are "prevented" from success and happiness.

Do you prefer to be with people who are happy, or do you like people who are depressed, angry, fearful....?

BTW, in my church, the principle is that we judge people as individuals, they are regarded as to their ability, not anything about their race or their language. We don't stereotype them. And I don't hire people based on their physical characteristics, only on their ability to get the job done and make us all happy and prosperous.

And what does your church say about it? Maybe you forgot about your Golden Rule? "Walk a mile in my shoes" works both ways.

CaliforniaChic
23-04-2014, 06:09
Am I talking to an 11-year-old?

I called you a bigot AFTER you said I was in the KKK.

Come on already, the conversation is done with.

Fantastika
23-04-2014, 06:14
Come on already, the conversation is done with.

Which part of Communication 101 don't you understand?

When you continue to create antagonism with hostile transmissions, you are inviting the other person to respond in the same antagonistic tone.

If you want to end communication, you don't tell the other person to "shut up", you simply stop communication.

CaliforniaChic
23-04-2014, 06:51
Which part of Communication 101 don't you understand?

When you continue to create antagonism with hostile transmissions, you are inviting the other person to respond in the same antagonistic tone.

If you want to end communication, you don't tell the other person to "shut up", you simply stop communication.

Do take your own advice then.

FatAndy
23-04-2014, 09:08
Comrades-ladies,
Either you chill down, or the thread will be closed... what a kindergarten?
:)

Brother
23-04-2014, 09:59
What is the official line is not important when many illegal parents do stay and collect benefits .

To appreciate those benefits you need to be from the "4th world countries". I see no benefits for my children (American citizens) in the US , though I honestly have been trying to find them for years. Otherwise I would be there already. Economical situation in the US is sh**.

Fantastika
23-04-2014, 10:01
Comrades-ladies,
Either you chill down, or the thread will be closed... what a kindergarten?
:)

Please, close the thread, it is a crock, a lot of sound and fury about nothing...

Obama has invited all Mexican criminals to feed off the US taxpayer:

http://www.wmal.com/common/page.php?pt=Obama+Administration+Considers+Shielding+Most+Illegal+Immigrants+From+Deportation&id=77044&is_corp=0

And the Teleprompter will soon be issuing another proclamation, to let the million or so drug offenders out of prison, in time for the 2014 elections.

FatAndy
23-04-2014, 10:26
Fantastika, it may be OP who has received the needed answer, asking to close it. We'll define when it needed indeed ;)

natlee
23-04-2014, 11:15
Heey, I haven't even had a chance to read it yet! Leave the thread alone! :evilgrin: :D

FatAndy
23-04-2014, 11:57
Heey, I haven't even had a chance to read it yet! Leave the thread alone! :evilgrin: :D
Closed thread is closed for posting, not for reading.:grind:
:rofl:

natlee
23-04-2014, 12:02
Closed thread is closed for posting, not for reading.:grind:
:rofl: I know but once I've read it I might want to post! :p

FatAndy
23-04-2014, 12:12
I know but once I've read it I might want to post! :p
Even non-experienced foreign spies from the site know, that if they'll bring... erhm... something to a mod, he/she may reopen the thread... ;)

Fantastika
25-04-2014, 05:58
How many illegals are currently living in US? 11 million. A thousand deportations a year hardly makes a difference.

Yes, I agree (I was being sarcastic).


The laws are enforced but outdated and the police are limited to what they can do. US needs to overhaul its illegal immigration laws since the last one was in 1996.

The laws are not enforced, that is the problem. Obama has proclaimed that law enforcement querying a suspect about his immigration status is tantamount to violation of their civil rights ("racist"). We don't need new laws, we need to enforce the ones already there.


Wrong. You do need SSN to apply for food stamps or SNAP.

All you need is application, whether you have one or not. And there are 101 classes of exceptions if you don't - one class of exception is Mexican or Canadian with Indian (Native American) heritage - and nearly all Mexicans have some Indian heritage.


Sure there are workarounds if they know how to beat the system but many of them get caught eventually.


No, they don't get caught. Because they have been ordered not to pursue.

Paying for the upkeep of 1 million illegals in US prisons is nothing for taxpayers to be happy about, either.

This is a moot discussion - why talk about laws when laws are disregarded?

Obama is getting ready to simply grant citizenship to millions of illegal immigrants - this will ensure new Democrat voters and trash the USA.

From WMal.com:

"Tens of thousands of immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally but don't have serious criminal records will be shielded from deportation under a policy change being weighed by Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson.

The change, following a review ordered by President Barack Obama, would limit removals of people who have little or no criminal record but have committed repeat immigration violations such as re-entering the country illegally after having been deported, or failing to comply with a deportation order."

In other words, if you have been deported , but snuck back in, you will not be deported again.

Franz Kafka is laughing...

CaliforniaChic
25-04-2014, 22:06
To appreciate those benefits you need to be from the "4th world countries". I see no benefits for my children (American citizens) in the US , though I honestly have been trying to find them for years. Otherwise I would be there already. Economical situation in the US is sh**.

Yes, I agree I don't see many benefits myself, especially for wealthy foreigners. I think that the wealthier birth tourists from countries such as Russia are really enticed to give birth there because they want their child to have visa-free access when they travel. They think that a U.S. passport will insure their child is protected abroad, but if they are in a foreign country and something does happen, how could they communicate with the U.S. consulate? Also, it doesn't insure that the parents will be able to be evacuated along with the child to a third country, and even so that is not free as they may think it is. They also have no clue what the tax implications are for our blue passports. It also seems to me that it is a status thing, people want to show off and say "Oh look at me, I had my child in the U.S. and yes he/she is a U.S. citizen."

CaliforniaChic
25-04-2014, 22:52
Yes, I agree (I was being sarcastic).



The laws are not enforced, that is the problem. Obama has proclaimed that law enforcement querying a suspect about his immigration status is tantamount to violation of their civil rights ("racist"). We don't need new laws, we need to enforce the ones already there.



All you need is application, whether you have one or not. And there are 101 classes of exceptions if you don't - one class of exception is Mexican or Canadian with Indian (Native American) heritage - and nearly all Mexicans have some Indian heritage.



No, they don't get caught. Because they have been ordered not to pursue.

Paying for the upkeep of 1 million illegals in US prisons is nothing for taxpayers to be happy about, either.

This is a moot discussion - why talk about laws when laws are disregarded?

Obama is getting ready to simply grant citizenship to millions of illegal immigrants - this will ensure new Democrat voters and trash the USA.

From WMal.com:

"Tens of thousands of immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally but don't have serious criminal records will be shielded from deportation under a policy change being weighed by Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson.

The change, following a review ordered by President Barack Obama, would limit removals of people who have little or no criminal record but have committed repeat immigration violations such as re-entering the country illegally after having been deported, or failing to comply with a deportation order."

In other words, if you have been deported , but snuck back in, you will not be deported again.

Franz Kafka is laughing...

Actually, you do need a SSN to apply for food stamps...

"Good cause to not apply for a social security number

Applicants without social security numbers (SSNs) must apply for one before they can get food stamps unless there is “good cause.” [7 C.F.R. § 273.6(b)(2); MPP § 63-404.3.] If the food stamp office finds good cause for not trying to get a social security number, an applicant can get food stamps for the first month and the next. [MPP § 63-404.52.] After that, the food stamp office will decide each month if good cause for not applying for a social security number continues. [MPP § 63-404.52.]
“A showing of good cause for not applying timely will allow the individual to participate for one month in addition to the month of application. For participation to continue, good cause for failure to apply must be determined at the end of each month of participation.” 51 Fed. Reg. 7191 (February 28, 1986). An otherwise eligible person should not be denied food stamps for failure to provide a social security number where that failure was for reasons beyond the applicant’s control. Cox v. Department of Health and Rehabilitative Services, 480 So.2d 149 (Fla.App. 1985).

“Good cause” means that the person tried to apply for a SSN but cannot do it yet. [7 C.F.R. § 273.6(d); MPP § 63-404.5.] For example, someone may have good cause if the Social Security office will not take the application because the person does not have proof of age and must send away for the birth certificate."

An illegal parent(s) CAN apply for food stamps for their child if the child is a U.S. citizen, but that parent CANNOT receive any benefits for themselves.



I have never heard of Latin Americans with indigenous blood receiving special status as Native Americans or First Nation Tribes, those titles are typically held for Canadian and U.S. indigenous people. Typically, they must be affiliated with a tribe and according to the Indian Affairs site:
"A federally recognized tribe is an American Indian or Alaska Native tribal entity that is recognized as having a government-to-government relationship with the United States, with the responsibilities, powers, limitations, and obligations attached to that designation, and is eligible for funding and services from the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Furthermore, federally recognized tribes are recognized as possessing certain inherent rights of self-government (i.e., tribal sovereignty) and are entitled to receive certain federal benefits, services, and protections because of their special relationship with the United States. At present, there are 566 federally recognized American Indian and Alaska Native tribes and villagges."

I highly doubt Latin American tribes are officially registered with the U.S., meet the critera and share the necessary special relationship with the U.S. when they are located outside of the U.S. With that said, I don't think any Latin American can receive that special Native American status.

Fantastika
04-06-2014, 18:03
It is not necessary to go to US to give birth...

Have the kid, then just wait a few years, send him in on an airplane or run across the border.

60,000 children (without parents) from Mexico and Central America, arrived in the US last year. Obama has welcomed them and is spending $1.4 billion this year to house and feed them. None have been deported.

Next year, 130,000 more undocumented illegal children without parents are expected.

After the kid gets 18, he can get his parents and extended family into the US.

To show his contempt for the Pentagon (and for America), he is using an Air Force base to warehouse these welfare recipients and future Democrats and
gang members.

Ethnic cleansing, by Barack Obama.

Matt24
04-06-2014, 20:16
It is not necessary to go to US to give birth...

Have the kid, then just wait a few years, send him in on an airplane or run across the border.

60,000 children (without parents) from Mexico and Central America, arrived in the US last year. Obama has welcomed them and is spending $1.4 billion this year to house and feed them. None have been deported.

Next year, 130,000 more undocumented illegal children without parents are expected.

After the kid gets 18, he can get his parents and extended family into the US.

To show his contempt for the Pentagon (and for America), he is using an Air Force base to warehouse these welfare recipients and future Democrats and
gang members.

Ethnic cleansing, by Barack Obama.

What is it with dumb people and right leaning politics....oh right, as if you'd know

Fantastika
04-06-2014, 20:57
What is it with dumb people and right leaning politics....oh right, as if you'd know

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/60,000 children pour into USA illegal immigration (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/us-usa-immigration-children-idUSKBN0E814T20140528)

Typical loonie Leftie - shoot first, then blame the bodies on the Koch brothers and George Bush.

Here's the link, two times for you, Dumbo:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/60,000 children pour into USA illegal immigration (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/us-usa-immigration-children-idUSKBN0E814T20140528)

What's that icon about? Your finger pointing at your pea-sized cerebrum?

Matt24
04-06-2014, 23:06
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/60,000 children pour into USA illegal immigration (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/us-usa-immigration-children-idUSKBN0E814T20140528)

Typical loonie Leftie - shoot first, then blame the bodies on the Koch brothers and George Bush.

Here's the link, two times for you, Dumbo:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/60,000 children pour into USA illegal immigration (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/us-usa-immigration-children-idUSKBN0E814T20140528)

What's that icon about? Your finger pointing at your pea-sized cerebrum?

I told you you're disqualified from answering the question, it's for the grown ups sugar. Out of interest what sort of 'care in the community order' are you on? Keep taking the pills girl.

Fantastika
05-06-2014, 00:25
I told you you're disqualified from answering the question, it's for the grown ups sugar. Out of interest what sort of 'care in the community order' are you on? Keep taking the pills girl.

What's it like to suck your thumb, watch CNN, and become a drooling idiot?

BTW, the Left are the ones who push psychotropic pills and illegal drugs on schoolchildren. Feeding children Clonapin and Ritalin makes it (appear) that the "Progressive" indoctrination is being absorbed, and the young, minds full of mush, are docile in the classroom, but I guess you know all about that.

CaliforniaChic
05-06-2014, 02:09
Fanatik,

I can see you must be very bored as you are evidently trying to stir up hatred and cause more drama after multiple warnings from the mods. Don't you get it?

If you honestly have so much time and such a passion for immigration issues in the U.S., and since the "browning" of America is obviously annoying you, why don't you do more? If Americans want change then they must act upon it, not sit around posting useless statistics to people who are millions of miles away and who could likely care less about the future demographics of America.

And once more your logic is flawed. How can someone who needs a visa to enter the U.S. and who will likely be denied a U.S. visa, send their minor offspring on a one-way ticket to the U.S.?

Illegal immigration and birth tourism would be dramatically reduced if automatic birth right citizenship was abolished, but until then you won't be seeing any less people trying to at all costs arrive to the U.S.

Fantastika
05-06-2014, 02:29
Fanatik,


Californicator



I can see you must be very bored as you are evidently trying to stir up hatred


Look in a mirror, hatemonger. Read your own posts.


since the "browning" of America is obviously annoying you,

Yes, I know you are a racist. Racists always throw the race card.



If Americans want change then they must act upon it, not sit around posting useless statistics to people who are millions of miles away


Millions of miles away? You learned science with Al Gore and Joe Biden? Where are you, on Mars? Venus? They are millions of miles away.



And once more your logic is flawed. How can someone who needs a visa to enter the U.S. and who will likely be denied a U.S. visa, send their minor offspring on a one-way ticket to the U.S.?


How can I argue "logic" with someone who thinks Europe is "millions of miles away" from North America?

In 2008, 11,000 children arrived in USA without parents, without documentation. Last year 60,000. Next year, projected 130,000.

They arrived WITHOUT a visa, and not a SINGLE one has been deported. However, their families will soon arrive with Obama-granted visas, as Obama "handles" the Obama-created problem. The "problem,"as Obama sees it, is that there are not enough Democrat voters, and so by legalizing various classes of illegal immigrants, he "fixes" the "problem."



Illegal immigration and birth tourism would be dramatically reduced if automatic birth right citizenship was abolished, but until then you won't be seeing any less people trying to at all costs arrive to the U.S.

You got something correct. Amazing. Must be random event.

But abolishing "birth right citizenship" won't reduce illegal immigration when parents, with the blessing and facilitation of Central American and Mexican governments, send their illegal kids to the US *after* they are born.

Matt24
05-06-2014, 02:44
What's it like to suck your thumb...

An odd chat up line, but heh produce the right veterinary certificates and I suppose you can try...do you not have thumbs of your own?

Fantastika
05-06-2014, 03:25
An odd chat up line, but heh produce the right veterinary certificates and I suppose you can try...do you not have thumbs of your own?

Mutt-Nutball, you came out of nowhere and made personal attack on me. Now you also want to get another last insult in, too? Typical loonie Left-wing fascist - "Shut up and listen! - Your speech is hate speech, my speech is mandatory listening."

Do you have anything intelligent to say about the topic of this thread?

BabyFirefly
05-06-2014, 03:36
Your Hispanic moderator asks that you calm the Speedy Gonzales down.

Fantastika
05-06-2014, 04:06
Your Hispanic moderator asks that you calm the Speedy Gonzales down.

I consider your statement vile, despicable and racist, because it is targeted at me, not at the person who threw the race card. And you are not white.

And what EXACTLY is your race problem with any statement I made?

And why didn't you also send a public threat-message to the person who first threw the race card, not once but TWICE?

And if *I* said "Speedy Gonzalez" you would consider that racist, but it's okay for YOU to say it.

What hypocrisy.

VicY
05-06-2014, 06:32
"...could care less"?? Oh, those Americanisms :)

Russian Lad
05-06-2014, 07:04
So, Fantastika, you are a staunch Republican?

Fantastika
05-06-2014, 09:14
So, Fantastika, you are a staunch Republican?

Russian Lad, I want the same thing you want - an end to suppressive (oppressive?) government.

Republicans, Democrats, when they arrive in Washington, they become Party elites. It is similar to old Soviet system - there were the Moscow Communist party elites, and everyone else - the proletariat.

I am Tea Party all the way - they seek lower taxes, less regulation. The government shut down here in my village a local farmer's vegetable stand because the government regulators measured the distance between the toilet and the sink - it is not enough distance.

Democrats + Republicans + media + government regulators, combine to make criminals of Tea Party activists, same as in your country - the government regulates free speech and regulates and taxes free enterprise - you have to pay bribes, we have to pay taxes.

Just get the NSA, KGB, nanny government out of our lives, then you, me, everyone, can succeed.

Russian Lad
05-06-2014, 10:05
Just get the NSA, KGB, nanny government out of our lives, then you, me, everyone, can succeed.

I see.:)

Fantastika
05-06-2014, 10:55
"...could care less"?? Oh, those Americanisms :)

You put your finger on a bewildering "Americanism." Half the time they say "I could care less," the other half says "I could not care less" but it's supposed to mean the same thing = "I don't care", although there is technically a 100% difference in meaning. Don't think about this one, just throw it in the musorney blok...

What I like about Russki yazik is one negative makes the whole sentence negative.

But in English, for example, "I don't know if she didn't know about not going to the beach."

The first negative makes the sentence negative, the second negative negates the first negative and makes the sentence positive, the 3rd negative negates the preceding combination of the first two negatives and makes the sentence negative again. :nut:

Russian keeps it simple - 1,2,3 or more negatives , the sentence is always negative.

I'm a writer, I care greatly about words, even if they drive me nuts... :)

JanC
05-06-2014, 17:31
Republicans, Democrats, when they arrive in Washington, they become Party elites.

True enough, but until the Tea Party acknowledges the fact that governing requires copious amounts of compromise and realism to get things done, we won't know how they would behave if they got to Washington en masse.

Looking at Palin and the way she monetized her fanbase, I'm not convinced they would be any different from the loathed establishment.

FatAndy
05-06-2014, 17:34
Your Hispanic moderator asks that you calm the Speedy Gonzales down.
In Russia it is called неуловимый Джо.:smokin:

Fantastika
06-06-2014, 07:32
True enough, but until the Tea Party acknowledges the fact that governing requires copious amounts of compromise and realism to get things done...

Compromise with what? And who defines "realism"? You? And who needs to get "things done"? You are wrong on your assumption, and false in your conclusion, since it is based on a bad assumption.

Spoken like a true bureaucrat - copious piles of paperwork and armies of Eurocrats regulating everything from soup to nuts, while the economy stagnates for decades under the heavy weight of bureaucracy, and freedoms are stifled for the sake of "compromise." Bureaucrats are like rabbits - they breed more rabbits - bureaucrats birth regulations, which require more bureaucrats to regulate, and so on. They constantly increase their population until the system collapses.

A good government is a small government.

You don't understand the Tea Party, and you don't understand America, and you don't understand how and why America was founded.

Our founding documents were written with the *premise* that government is evil - such government was established with 3 branches, opposed to each other, to prevent any one branch from becoming too powerful.

A free press was mandated as a watch dog (this fierce German Shepherd has today become an wimpy Obama French poodle) to expose government corruption and overreach, and a 2nd Amendment was written to allow people to bear arms (weapons), so the people could overthrow the government when it became too powerful and too oppressive.



Looking at Palin and the way she monetized her fanbase, I'm not convinced they would be any different from the loathed establishment.

"Monetized her fanbase"...droll phrasing. Well, she did have to pay off millions in legal fees for defending herself and her family (including her children) from the 1000's of frivolous lawsuits filed against her by "progressive" Democrats.

Why are you attacking Sarah Palin? What does she have to do with this thread? You know absolutely nothing about this saint, nor the living hell her life became after 2008.

You should read her book, instead of watching CNN-Euronews-BBC Truthъ - you would discover she has more joyfulness, more integrity, more honesty, more courage in her little finger, than all the Eurocrats combined in the EU.

JanC
06-06-2014, 10:08
Compromise with what?

Erm, the people who don't agree with you? I don't think it's news that not everyone in America (or any other place for that matter) has the same political ideas and preferences. Stuff which campaigns well in the South can go down like a lead balloon elsewhere.

America is a pretty huge and diverse country, how are you ever going to run it without compromising?



You don't understand the Tea Party, and you don't understand America, and you don't understand how and why America was founded.

I think you'll find differing opinions on these matters within America as well. Of course everyone's opinion is clearly wrong except those who share yours. If only those idiots would stop voting wrong, eh?

In any case, I don't think there is any doubt that US elections are now all about money and have been for some time. Elections are a billion dollar industry on their own. No-one's gets elected without massive fundraising from (mostly) corporate donors who will expect to get a favor or two afterwards. Congress is lobbied to kingdom come. History suggests that those who claim to be "different" rarely confirm their claims once they get elected. If the Tea Party wants to be in power they'll have to play ball. It's difficult to misinterpret the Tea Party as they put forward their goals fairly plainly on their web page http://www.teaparty.org/about-us/


Our founding documents were written with the *premise* that government is evil

Clearly a necessary evil, or they wouldn't have bothered.


and a 2nd Amendment was written to allow people to bear arms (weapons), so the people could overthrow the government when it became too powerful and too oppressive

Made sense in a time when the military didn't have stealth bombers and drones, I suppose. Let's face it, there's not going to be any government overthrowing with mere "arms" anymore.




Why are you attacking Sarah Palin? What does she have to do with this thread? You know absolutely nothing about this saint

You think that was an attack? That's a bit sensitive...
She's just an example of someone who has done extremely well financially by repeating political ideas to a partisan audience. It's what everyone else seems to do, when they can, sure. Sounds like a regular politician to me, but I don't know your definition of sainthood.

Fantastika
06-06-2014, 16:42
America is a pretty huge and diverse country, how are you ever going to run it without compromising?


America ran a lot more smoothly without edu-crats, medi-crats, bureaucrats sitting on their fat behinds, producing nothing, passing 1000's of regulations to justify their obscene salaries, and stifling liberty and freedom with their "compromisin'.



I think you'll find differing opinions on these matters within America as well. Of course everyone's opinion is clearly wrong except those who share yours. If only those idiots would stop voting wrong, eh?


That's your idea - you don't like people voting who disagree with you? Don't lump me in with you.



If the Tea Party wants to be in power they'll have to play ball. [/url]


Like I said, you don't understand the Tea Party - they are not about power, they are about *reducing* the power of government.



Clearly a necessary evil, or they wouldn't have bothered.


Yes, I see you agree with the Tea Party that government is evil.



Made sense in a time when the military didn't have stealth bombers and drones, I suppose. Let's face it, there's not going to be any government overthrowing with mere "arms" anymore.


That doesn't change the fact that the founders of this country wrote the 2nd Amendment.

As a matter of fact, you'll be happy to know that anyone who even dares advocate overthrowing the US government goes to the federal gulag.



You think that was an attack?

Sounds like a regular politician to me, but I don't know your definition of sainthood.

Yeah, it was an attack - there are 100's of Democrats far far richer than Sarah Palin, like John Kerry - billionaire, George Soros, Barack and Moochelle- their wealth has increased dramatically, the fat-cat Clintons who made off with White House treasures, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi - all made out like Ukrainian oligarchs after being elected. But you just happened to pick Sarah Palin, whose "wealth" is minuscule compared to these "Progressive" Democrats. Sarah Plain is not "wealthy," that's crap.

A Saint is a person, who after being demonized and character-assassinated by 99% of the media on a daily basis, whose church was firebombed, who was stalked by a Democrat writer-criminal, is still participating in public life. A leading American "comedian" made a "joke" about raping Sarah's 13-year-old daughter, and American media had a laff-riot. Sarah was lied about by the media from day one. One more reason why journalists are less respected than criminals in the USA.

Despite all this, Sarah is still happy, and like I said, she has more honesty, more integrity, more courage, more heart, than all the bureaucrats in Bruxelles put together.

You know nothing about SP, and you never will, unless you read one of her books, or her daughter's book, where you can see the *reality* of her life, not what some biased bigot from CNN or MSNBC tells you to think.

Like I said, you don't know nothing about America, or American exceptionalism. From time to time, we do get a Washington, a Lincoln, a Reagan, or a Palin.

All you get in stagnant Europe is compromise and bureaucrats.

JanC
06-06-2014, 18:20
America ran a lot more smoothly without edu-crats, medi-crats, bureaucrats sitting on their fat behinds

Which time period are you referencing, precisely?


That's your idea - you don't like people voting who disagree with you?

I'm pointing out the reality that no one political faction is going to have it all their own way. Hence, compromise. A party that stands for no compromise is...pointless.


Like I said, you don't understand the Tea Party - they are not about power, they are about *reducing* the power of government

And how do they plan to do that without getting into any sort of power themselves? Shouting how things ought to be is easy, but it solves absolutely nothing on its own. How do they aim to accomplish their goals?

It's not like they are particularly close to accomplishing anything at all at the moment?



Yes, I see you agree with the Tea Party that government is evil.

I think evil is not an appropriate way to describe many governments, save a couple here and there in particularly bad patches of the world. I think adjectives like wasteful, complacent, inefficient... apply better to most Western governments.

I agree fully that if only we could all have sensible governments filled with people who want what is best for the country as opposed to for their own butts, we would be a lot better off than we are now. I just don't think it's going to happen, or even can happen. Human nature gets in the way.

You also seem to think I'm a fan of bureaucracy or the way things are done in old Europe. I'm self employed and do my best to run a business, that should tell you enough about my opinion on the workings of the public sector. But I'm not going to spend my time complaining about it, or directing blame for each and every issue towards the head of state as if he/she is the effing antichrist. The idea that if only the "good guys" were in charge one's life would be a lot better is a (popular) delusion.


That doesn't change the fact that the founders of this country wrote the 2nd Amendment.

Certainly it doesn't. But it would be a silly to argue that the 2nd amendment is relevant today in the same way it was then. It no longer accomplishes what it was meant to accomplish. That doesn't mean it should be changed of course, and I really don't care if every American has a dozen firearms in their closet. I don't need to live there, after all.



Yeah, it was an attack - there are 100's of Democrats far far richer than Sarah Palin

I'm sure, but you appear to be responding to a point I did not make.


Sarah was lied about by the media from day one.

Sounds like the media all right, but let's not forget all the dumb **** she managed to say all on her own. Out of context, I suppose.


You know nothing about SP, and you never will, unless you read one of her books, or her daughter's book, where you can see the *reality* of her life

I can't say I ever looked at autobiographies as the ultimate truth on any given author.


Like I said, you don't know nothing about America

It's difficult not to imagine a bit of a "deliverance" accent to go with that double negative!

Fantastika
06-06-2014, 19:26
I'm pointing out the reality that no one political faction is going to have it all their own way. Hence, compromise. A party that stands for no compromise is...pointless.

No, I can't buy your idea of "necessary compromise" - great ideas, great people, are not the result of compromise. I don't (usually) compromise my integrity. Please, give me a list of history's "great moderates" :)


It's not like they [Tea Party] are particularly close to accomplishing anything at all at the moment?

Well, they swept to power in an outpouring of public anger over Obama, in 2010, a reversal of usual politics, an overwhelming percentage victory not seen in 70 years.

After that they were suppressed by Obama using NSA data to identify their local groups and then targeting these groups with violations of IRS law. Mosts of the rest of the Tea Party was frightened away. Only through this suppression and criminalization of their political activities was Obama able to suppress the popular will of the people - but the Tea Party is still in the hearts of the majority of Americans.


I think evil is not an appropriate way to describe many governments, save a couple here and there in particularly bad patches of the world. I think adjectives like wasteful, complacent, inefficient... apply better to most Western governments.

When people like Hussein Obama gain so much power, government does become evil. Supporting terrorists in several countries, ethnically cleansing America by making citizens of millions of lower-class illegal immigrant Latin Americans, arming many domestic federal agencies with tanks and SWAT teams to "protect" his agencies from US citizens, proclaiming laws by fiat, playing golf while the rest of the world needs some moral leadership, etc.


I'm self employed and do my best to run a business, that should tell you enough about my opinion on the workings of the public sector.

Good for you, and good luck in your business. I would never have a business in the USSA. Just for example, one of the moderators here a couple of days ago, identified self as Hispanic and used the term "Speedy Gonzalez". If I had a business and used that term to refer to one of my Hispanic employees, what would happen? Employee would sue me for "racism", judge would find me guilty and award my entire business and all assets to employee.

Such a government, enforcing such laws, which has "compromised" the demands of many "diverse" groups clamoring for their piece of the American pie, IS evil.


...and I really don't care if every American has a dozen firearms in their closet.

Ha-ha, a couple of weeks ago I got a pickup truck at the auction. These are vehicles impounded by the police after the driver was arrested for transporting cocaine, or some other crime. After the auction, I was having difficulty to get the engine going. I grabbed the drink tray to put under the gas pedal to keep the truck from stalling. Under the drink tray was a pistol - semi-automatic, fully loaded. Well, the truck is from Texas...



Sounds like the media all right, but let's not forget all the dumb **** she managed to say all on her own. Out of context, I suppose.


Give me a break, I could easily predict that was coming next. Yes, you are repeating the CNN-Euronews gospel. Some people even think she actually said "I can see Russia from my house." She didn't say that, but the media lied about it anyway.

Obama and Biden each have 10x as many gaffes. Obama with his "I visited all 57 states" and Biden telling a guy in a wheelchair to "Stand up!"

My "friend" (ex-friend) wants to urinate in Sarah Palin's mouth, he is so stupid as to swallow the bile and hatred whipped up by the frothing pit-bulls of the media against Sarah Palin. When I tell him that is idiotic, he then claims Sarah Palin is "stupid."

So Sarah Palin is accused of being "rich" or corrupt" or whatever, and when those arguments are shown to be plain crap, then she accused of being "stupid," for example, being asked and not knowing who the vice-president of Uzbekistan is.

But this is not about Sarah Palin's intelligence, like I keep saying. It's about the demonization and character assassination of a woman of integrity, honesty, and courage, by a corrupt Washington establishment and a corrupt media.

It's very sad, because America desperately needs a leader, someone with vision, someone with ethics, someone with integrity, but Washington has become a moral cesspool and anyone who dares to take a stand is attacked as a "racist," "sexist," "bigot," "religious zealot," "homophobe," whatever.


I can't say I ever looked at autobiographies as the ultimate truth on any given author.

That's a bizarre observation. Who knows you better - yourself or someone else?


It's difficult not to imagine a bit of a "deliverance" accent to go with that double negative!

I'm a writer, I use the double negative purposely, it's how my characters talk, and besides in Russian, double negative = single negative. :)

:fridaysign:

Fantastika
06-06-2014, 20:06
I can't say I ever looked at autobiographies as the ultimate truth on any given author.



On second thought, I can understand some cynicism, you are thinking of lying, editing-his-life politician? I was thinking of the writer as always telling the truth...

In the US, when a Democrat dies, he is hailed as a "great hero", his biography is detailed and his accomplishments feted. When a Republican dies, he is a "controversial figure" and "was criticized" and "will be remembered for his mistakes"...

An interesting autobiography (the first half, anyway, the second half is a rant) is Mein Kampf. It provides some insight into why Adolf hated Jews. Seems that he was mistreated by them in the 1920's, in Munich...

JanC
07-06-2014, 09:44
No, I can't buy your idea of "necessary compromise" - great ideas, great people, are not the result of compromise

I believe you are right, but if I look at the political system currently in place in the US and elsewhere, I don't see how you will get anywhere without compromise and diluting your ultimate goals down until they reach inevitable mediocrity.

There is a gigantic divide in US politics right now, possibly as big as it's ever been. Without pretending to be an accomplished analyst, I would say the rift is the result of a flawed electoral system and the media shamelessly fanning conflict in order to ultimately profit from it. Elections are supposed to be serious business, but these days you can't tell much difference between the hollywood style reporting on a large sporting event or general elections, except the latter seem to go on forever.

The system where party primary elections decide who will ultimately be presented to the nationwide body of voters has the unpleasant side effect that lunatics can take over the asylum. It requires massive pandering to the activist party base to the point that all the flip-flopping in the world doesn't get you back to a centrist position in a general election. I hesitate to quote South Park, but the Douche vs Turd elections of late are getting frustrating.




Well, they swept to power in an outpouring of public anger over Obama, in 2010, a reversal of usual politics, an overwhelming percentage victory not seen in 70 years

I remember that. How much of their agenda has been accomplished, or is close to being accomplished since then? I would even
submit that there is a reasonable chance that the Tea Party is almost single handedly responsible for Obama winning a second term. No-one was under any illusions after 1 term that he was any good at the job. Any Republican who came close to being somewhat centrist could have swept the election. It was the things Republicans had to say during the primaries that ultimately lost them the election, in my humble non-American opinion of course.

The Tea Party did win big in the past, but largely at the expense of republicans. With their current agenda they can forget about winning over many independents never mind democrats. So where do they go from here? Success for Tea Party republicans would ensure political division and deadlock continues at the expense of the nation as a whole.


After that they were suppressed by Obama using NSA data to identify their local groups and then targeting these groups with violations of IRS law.

I doubt you could really make a water tight case for that. Obama doesn't directly control much, and if his general leadership performance is anything to go by I'm not sure he could pull it off even if he wanted to.


people like Hussein Obama

Do you usually refer to people by their middle name? It just looks cheap going for irrelevant things like that, take the high road...



Under the drink tray was a pistol - semi-automatic, fully loaded. Well, the truck is from Texas...

Heh, good find that. What did you do with it? Turn it in? I imagine one wouldn't want to hold on to a gun one does not know the history of.



Give me a break, I could easily predict that was coming next.

I have seen quite a few of her talks in their entirety with no tricky editing. Are you claiming she hasn't come up with non existing words or displayed staggering holes in her general knowledge as a politician?

Again, no need to tell me other politicians are stupid, too. That much we all know.



So Sarah Palin is accused of being "rich" or corrupt" or whatever, and when those arguments are shown to be plain crap, then she accused of being "stupid," for example, being asked and not knowing who the vice-president of Uzbekistan is.

I certainly didn't call her corrupt, I mentioned that she did certainly not shy away from cashing in when she could. She did by all accounts become millions of dollars richer since her shock appointment as McCain's running mate. And who can blame her? I'm just saying it's not something that makes her look all too different from the rest of them.



That's a bizarre observation. Who knows you better - yourself or someone else?

Is it? Who is more interested in making one look good? It's not like we all never make excuses and always hold up our hand when we eff up.

I really don't think autobiographies are universally accepted as being the most accurate accounts.

In fact, my point would probably make itself if I would ask you if you'd read Obama's autobiography to know "what really happened" :)


I'm a writer, I use the double negative purposely

I thought that was the case, still pretty funny. I write articles every now and then on stuff that interests me, but not being native English I just hide behind our Russian translator for the most part. Getting a point across is easy but my vocabulary is too limited to impress anyone.

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 03:02
I believe you are right, but if I look at the political system currently in place in the US and elsewhere, I don't see how you will get anywhere without compromise and diluting your ultimate goals down until they reach inevitable mediocrity.

Most people do not respect mediocrity, or middle-of-the roaders, or compromisers. History is made by visionaries, by people of integrity, who do not compromise their ethics.


There is a gigantic divide in US politics right now, possibly as big as it's ever been. Without pretending to be an accomplished analyst, I would say the rift is the result of a flawed electoral system and the media shamelessly fanning conflict in order to ultimately profit from it. Elections are supposed to be serious business, but these days you can't tell much difference between the hollywood style reporting on a large sporting event or general elections, except the latter seem to go on forever.

Yes, the US system is set up for two parties, and there is great difficulty for a 3rd party to enter into national politics. It's an exclusive club.


The system where party primary elections decide who will ultimately be presented to the nationwide body of voters has the unpleasant side effect that lunatics can take over the asylum. It requires massive pandering to the activist party base to the point that all the flip-flopping in the world doesn't get you back to a centrist position in a general election. I hesitate to quote South Park, but the Douche vs Turd elections of late are getting frustrating.

Please don't quote a fictional character, a low-life cartoon jerk, from a virtual reality TV show. That has the veracity of a talking cow.

Like I said before, people do not respect mediocrity, or middle-of-the roaders, or compromisers. History is made by visionaries, by people of integrity, who stick to their ideals, who don't accept cash to change their mind.

Ronald Reagan won 49 states, the Democrats 1, in 1984. Reagan fought the Democrats tooth and nail. Reagan was not a great compromiser. There is nobody like Reagan in the Republican Party today, well maybe in the Tea Party.


...Obama winning a second term. No-one was under any illusions after 1 term that he was any good at the job. Any Republican who came close to being somewhat centrist could have swept the election. It was the things Republicans had to say during the primaries that ultimately lost them the election, in my humble non-American opinion of course.

McCain and Romney were by far the most moderate or centrist of the candidates. The media character-assassinated all the other Republican candidates. Since there was not much a of choice, they voted for the black guy, many whites wanted to prove to themselves they were not "racists." And Obama collected huge majorities from anti-Christians, abortionists, Socialists, Communists, Criminals, Homosexuals, Feminist women, the unemployed, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc. Democrat Lite won't win an election when opposed by a real Democrat.


The Tea Party did win big in the past, but largely at the expense of republicans. With their current agenda they can forget about winning over many independents never mind democrats. So where do they go from here? Success for Tea Party republicans would ensure political division and deadlock continues at the expense of the nation as a whole.

No, at the expense of Democrats. The Tea Party won in 2010 with the help of Democrats fed up with government excess, and got the biggest gains in 70 years, a huge majority.


I doubt you could really make a water tight case for that. Obama doesn't directly control much, and if his general leadership performance is anything to go by I'm not sure he could pull it off even if he wanted to.

Huh? He had 187 meetings with the head of the IRS from 2010-2012. The Teleprompter issues proclamations left and right, like a King. He made 1 million Mexicans citizens (Democrats) with a stroke of his pen.

He doesn't control much? You're making a joke. Ha ha. The most powerful man in the world doesn't control much. Okay, I fell for that one. :)


Do you usually refer to people by their middle name? It just looks cheap going for irrelevant things like that, take the high road...

For 2 reasons, first, because Hussein said he was PROUD of his middle name. Second, because the media accused anyone who used his middle name, of being,...wait for it... a "racist."


Heh, good find that. What did you do with it? Turn it in? I imagine one wouldn't want to hold on to a gun one does not know the history of.
Why? I told my police friend at the auction about it, he said "You got a good deal!" Anyway, I can sell it, the mailman wants it for his wife, I may get more money for it than I paid for the truck.


I have seen quite a few of her talks in their entirety with no tricky editing. Are you claiming she hasn't come up with non existing words or displayed staggering holes in her general knowledge as a politician?
Again, no need to tell me other politicians are stupid, too. That much we all know.

Sarah Palin is a very bright person, much more intelligent than Obama, who has to read his words from a teleprompter, or any other mealy-mouthed DC politician. This is not about Sarah Palin, why do they keep dragging her through the mud? Is it something personal? She's a non-person, ignored or character-assassinated by the news. But they insist are throwing crap at her. She has more integrity, honesty and courage in her little finger than all the Democrat politicians in Washington, and all the comedians in Hollywood who make jokes about raping her 13-year-old daughter, put together.

These attacks are like little kids screaming at their parents. It's like "I don't like Sarah Palin because she wants me to eat my spinach, she wants me to stop drinking, she wants me to stop gambling, she wants me to be an adult and not do drugs anymore..."

The really staggeringly ignorant fool and imbecile is Hillary Rodham Clinton, who, when testifying in 1996 or 2013, simply can't remember a single thing about anything she ever did or didn't do. "The world's smartest woman." :)

I come up with non-existent words in my writing, as does Stephen King. If it's good enough from SK, it's good enough for me (and Sarah). (BTW, you will be pleased to know SK is a Democrat and always manages to get in a few one-liners (attacks) on Republicans in his novels. But he's still the greatest writer I have ever read, so I read him.) What I don't know is how he comes across translated, or even for people like you, with a great command of English, if you can understand his frequent Americanisms.


I certainly didn't call her corrupt, I mentioned that she did certainly not shy away from cashing in when she could. She did by all accounts become millions of dollars richer since her shock appointment as McCain's running mate. And who can blame her? I'm just saying it's not something that makes her look all too different from the rest of them.

By all accounts she made millions? All of this money went to lawyers to defend against 1000's of lawsuits filed by Democrats against her and her family, every one of them frivolous, but designed to force her to resign her office. Read the book, it's an eye-opener, unless you want to keep on remaining a CNN clone. If you don't read the book, you won't ever know the truth. Why keep dragging her through the mud? She's a non-entity, hounded from office, her church was firebombed, she was stalked for 6 months by a Democrat who spied on her from next door, she was lied about, misquoted,...and so on. Enough is enough.

My ex-friend wants to urinate in her mouth.

What causes such personal hatred? Gee, it couldn't POSSIBLY be the MEDIA, could it? And low-information people believing the media? OH, NO, of course not.


Is it? Who is more interested in making one look good? It's not like we all never make excuses and always hold up our hand when we eff up.
I really don't think autobiographies are universally accepted as being the most accurate accounts.
In fact, my point would probably make itself if I would ask you if you'd read Obama's autobiography to know "what really happened" :)

Well, I am postulating that the writer is being honest with himself and not writing for an ulterior motive (like, right before you declare your candidacy, you write a book and the media says - wow, the candidate is an intellectual, she wrote a book! A lengthy opus!) Actually what she did was make tapes talking about herself. Barack Obama's and Hillary Clinton's autobiographies are not written by them, they are ghost written. I read a paragraph from Botox Babe's book at the bookstore, I almost vomited. 600 pages of cloying self-praise.

You know you are intelligent enough to "read between the lines" and figure out if the writer is ego-inflated, or otherwise trying to portray himself as something he is not, or lying to you, the reader. It's just something you can pick up, almost intuitive, like when you are talking to someone, and you get a "off-base" feeling about the conversation?

I have read plenty of "auto's" the best ones are not the ones which gag a maggot after 5 pages - "I did this, and then I did that, and after that I did this (I'm just the ginchiest, the greatest, look at me!)" I am working on one myself, it's (supposed to be) funny - like how when we were kids we did some really stupid things, raised hell and got away with it (sometimes), etc. I'm limiting it to one year - when I was 12 years old, because that was the most incredible year. Yes, I am in-your-face honest. Be true to yourself, it's not a bad motto. If you are writing dishonestly about yourself, then you are covering something up and that creates more mental entangulations (is that a new word? - Absotively and Posilutely) - Hillary can't remember ("I don't recall") anything about what she was doing, and Obama is always busy doing something else -playing golf, watching basketball, rather than confronting global problems. Lying just makes you less effective and less successful as a person, because you are using mental energy to create a cover-up, and you have to constantly be aware, be on guard, of someone discovering your duplicity. Exception Oligarch? Yes, but they live in a completely corrupt system, corruption is acceptable behavior.


I thought that was the case, still pretty funny. I write articles every now and then on stuff that interests me, but not being native English I just hide behind our Russian translator for the most part. Getting a point across is easy but my vocabulary is too limited to impress anyone.

Your English is a lot better than most Americans. I don't understand how someone like Stephen King gets translated. His writing style is unique, but every page is Americanisms, American curse words, cliches, American idioms, double meanings only in English. He continually refers to things found only in America. A yeoman's job (sorry, idiom?) to translate faithfully.

I am going to write a review of his latest - "Mr. Mercedes" when I get some time, in the Books section.

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 09:45
I believe you are right...

Just curious, when you were in the Maldives, did you get a chance to see the Vadhoo Islands? The Sea of Stars?

JanC
15-06-2014, 11:02
Just curious, when you were in the Maldives, did you get a chance to see the Vadhoo Islands? The Sea of Stars?

Unfortunately not, but as far as I can tell the phenomenon can occur in much of the Maldives - you just need to be lucky to be in the right spot at the right time.

The tricky thing about the Maldives is that you can't really get around much, easily. We visited 3 different resorts and each time we had to take a water plane back to Male and then on to the next one. Once on an island you're pretty much stuck there for a while.

The coolest thing I saw was at the Conrad resort where they have a bridge linking 2 "islands" - at night the bridge lights attract plankton which in turn attracted Manta Rays to feed, they were there all night doing loops and coming to the surface in something of a feeding frenzy. Amazing creatures. Only made a cell phone vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14zsvJ8fKJ4


I may come back to our futile discussion later, flying to Norway tonight for a week of trout fishing :) I prefer it to the Maldives actually, but the woman (predictably) isn't quite as keen on it.

Fantastika
15-06-2014, 22:46
I may come back to our futile discussion later, flying to Norway tonight for a week of trout fishing :) I prefer it to the Maldives actually, but the woman (predictably) isn't quite as keen on it.

What a tough life.:) At the auction Friday, I got 6 fishing rods for a dollar, including a bamboo one, and a Spiderman rod and reel (probably for a kid). The good reels were going for $20. If you're traveling, I suppose you need the rod that comes apart in pieces.