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Probe
17-03-2014, 23:03
Putin signs decree recognizing Crimea as a sovereign and independent state

Alan65
17-03-2014, 23:27
Putin signs decree recognizing Crimea as a sovereign and independent state

Yes...I think "done" is the appropriate word.

AstarD
17-03-2014, 23:29
Turkish media recall the 1783 treaty signed between the Russian and Ottoman Empires that states that if Crimea becomes independent, it reverts to Turkey.

http://ipress.ua/ru/news/esly_krim_provozglasyt_nezavysymost_to_on_avtomatychesky_voydet_v_sostav_turtsyy__turetskye_smy_43207.html

andymackem
18-03-2014, 00:23
Turkish media recall the 1783 treaty signed between the Russian and Ottoman Empires that states that if Crimea becomes independent, it reverts to Turkey.

http://ipress.ua/ru/news/esly_krim_provozglasyt_nezavysymost_to_on_avtomatychesky_voydet_v_sostav_turtsyy__turetskye_smy_43207.html

That's a lovely idea, but I'm not sure if a treaty signed between two now-defunct Empires will hold much water. Still, I'm sure Russia wouldn't balk at paying off Ankara if necessary.

Alan65
18-03-2014, 00:42
That's a lovely idea, but I'm not sure if a treaty signed between two now-defunct Empires will hold much water. Still, I'm sure Russia wouldn't balk at paying off Ankara if necessary.

Since when has anything legal entered the argument.

Probe
18-03-2014, 10:26
Putin informs parliament of Crimea's request to join Russia, in formal step towards annexation

Judge
18-03-2014, 10:32
Here's an article about how much will be needed to run Crimea and how much could be invested by business men.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/17/crimea-russia-promises-investment-stability

Families strolled in the spring sunshine along Yalta's seafront on Monday, but the serene scene belied the geopolitical shifts going on around them. Last week they lived in Ukraine, this week they live in a self-declared independent region, and next week there is a large chance they will be living in Russia, even if much of the world will not recognise the change, brought about by several weeks of Russian military occupation and a referendum on Sunday.

The signs of change on Monday were subtle. At an upmarket restaurant, the waiters found in the morning that their credit card terminals no longer worked. "The bank in Kiev has blocked everything since this morning," said one. "We can take euros or dollars. No roubles, though I guess soon that's what we will be using."

In Simferopol, visiting Russian MP Leonid Slutsky painted the political change as a victory for ordinary Crimeans. "People are happy ... they are protected, they will return to the country where they wanted to be for at least the last two generations," he told Ekho Moskvy radio.

Crimea is used to changes in the geopolitical wind, most recently in 1954 when Nikita Khrushchev handed it over to the Ukrainian republic within the Soviet Union. Near Yalta is the Livadia Palace, the summer retreat of the last tsar, Nicholas II, and the place where Franklin D Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and Joseph Stalin redrew the boundaries of Europe as the second world war came to a close.

Just six months ago, the palace hosted an annual conference of global politicians, hosted by a Ukrainian oligarch Viktor Pinchuk, opened by then-president Viktor Yanukovych and attended by Tony Blair and Bill Clinton among others. By the time gathering comes round this year, the palace and the rest of Crimea will almost certainly be part of Russia.

President Vladimir Putin is expected to announce officially on Tuesday that Russia will absorb Crimea, paving the way for a redrawing of Europe's borders, and thoughts are turning to economics. Crimea is a psychological prize for the Kremlin, but is it much of an economic one?

Some economists have warned that propping up Crimea could be a financial burden at a time when Russia's economy is struggling, with increased capital flight, a tumbling rouble and the threat of economic sanctions.

Crimea's deputy prime minister said that the region has set up a new central bank, which will later join Russia's central bank, and has been promised 20m in the coming days from Russia to help stabilise the situation.

In social benefits alone, Russia will have to foot a huge bill, with increased pensions and a massive amount of red tape to adjust the region to life within Russia. "There will be changes in tax laws, the issue of forming a customs service, an internal revenue service, and the registration of legal entities and individuals, inventories and rules to adapt to the Russian tax system," deputy finance minister Sergei Shatalov said.

Russian officials have said Russia will spend 650m a year on Crimea, while 3bn could be invested by Russian businesses. The real figure could be much higher, and a warning sign comes from the region of South Ossetia, where Russia spent huge sums after recognising it as independent in the aftermath of the 2008 war with Georgia, with little visible effect on the ground because of corruption.

There is also the headache of what to do with the remaining Ukrainian military bases on the peninsula. So far there has been no fighting, and many Ukrainian troops have deserted or defected, but there are still some holding strong, and although a ceasefire has been agreed until Friday, Crimean authorities have said all such bases on the territory are now illegal.

Crimea is dependent on Ukraine for 85% of electricity needs and 90% of water, and many small businesses rely on it for trade or supplies. In Belogorsk, locals said 100 people had been told they would lose their jobs at a construction materials factory, as the stone needed for production came from Ukraine.

Russia has promised huge investment to cover such losses. Yalta, like much of Crimea, depends heavily on tourism for revenue, and there are fears the Russian military presence, not to mention visa requirements for Europeans when Crimea joins Russia, could scare away tourists.

Sergei Aksyonov, Crimea's de facto prime minister, said over the weekend that there was nothing to worry about: Russia has already sent representatives of more than 180 regions and major state enterprises, who have promised to "send their tourists to us", ensuring the tourist season will go ahead as usual this year.

One of the first people to call Aksyonov on Sunday to congratulate him on the vote, was Chechnya's ruthless leader Ramzan Kadyrov, before the poll was even over. day, the Chechen businessman Ruslan Baisarov followed up on Kadyrov's offer of support, claiming he would build a 200m resort complex in Crimea including a luxury hotel, a yacht marina and a golf course.

The Kremlin's business ombudsman, Boris Titov, said on Monday that Crimea could be the ideal place to work "economic miracles" impossible in the rest of Russia, where businesses could take risks and an economic strategy could be "aimed at development, not at stability".

Crimea has a special place in the Russian historical memory, and Soviet Crimea during the 1960s and 1970s was relatively prosperous, functioning as a sort of idealised shop-window for what the Soviet Union could be. Far from the industrialisation and gulags of the icy Siberian tundra, Crimea was a sun-drenched land of wine production and resort life.

"We were used to good infrastructure, people who travelled a lot, and a relatively free intellectual life," said Sergei Kiselev, a pro-Russian professor at Taurida University in Simferopol. "That was why when it all collapsed, and we had the pain of perestroika, the bandit capitalism of the 1990s, and then the mess of the Ukrainian state, it was so painful."

It also explains why so many people, especially among the older generation, are nostalgic for the Soviet years, and see annexation by Russia as a small step back to an imagined life of plenty. In recent days there has been an outpouring of nationalist bravado about Russia as a great power and a financial saviour for the region, but there have also been more sober evaluations of what Russia may offer. For a large part, Russia feels attractive to many because of the depressed economic situation and wanton corruption of successive Ukrainian governments, including Russia's favourite, Yanukovych.

"The problem with these Ukrainians is that they don't know how to steal properly. They want the whole 100% for themselves and leave nothing for us," said 62-year-old Vasily, a Simferopol resident. "Putin is corrupt of course, but he steals in a cultured way. He says: 'I will take 50%, and give 50% to the people. We will get something at least.'"

TGP
18-03-2014, 13:38
Yes...I think "done" is the appropriate word.

It's done, and with the great help of the U.S. of A. and EU. So much effort, money, preparation of special freedom fighters, all for the sake of a "democratic system" in Ukraine ... :10220: Russia had just to wait. She didn't send her delegations to the maydan, didn't give out cookies there, she was just waiting, and then did everything in accordance with the law which the West - what a miracle! - forgot about.

All the stink raised now by the West, their support of the "legitimate" anti-Russian government of Ukraine is actually a second spiral of the events. The more the West supports Kiev, the more protests it causes in the Eastern Ukraine. Russia has just to wait... Shall I continue? ;)

okiey
18-03-2014, 13:46
It's done, and with the great help of the U.S. of A. and EU. So much effort, money, preparation of special freedom fighters, all for the sake of a "democratic system" in Ukraine ... :10220: Russia had just to wait. She didn't send her delegations to the maydan, didn't give out cookies there, she was just waiting, and then did everything in accordance with the law which the West - what a miracle! - forgot about.

All the stink raised now by the West, their support of the "legitimate" anti-Russian government of Ukraine is actually a second spiral of the events. The more the West supports Kiev, the more protests it causes in the Eastern Ukraine. Russia has just to wait... Shall I continue? ;)

VV has maneurvered himself into a win-win situation; while Maidan is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't.

Russian Lad
18-03-2014, 14:45
It's done, and with the great help of the U.S. of A. and EU. So much effort, money, preparation of special freedom fighters, all for the sake of a "democratic system" in Ukraine ... Russia had just to wait.

Had to wait, right. You are so delusional and misinformed I don't know where to start even. Both parties were getting ready for this in advance, for like two years minimum, it seems. The West was preparing "freedom fighters" in Poland and so forth, Russia infiltrated Ukraine with gangs of titushki, many of them still operate in Donetsk, Kharkov and other Eastern cities, most of the unrest there you see on the Russian TV is staged with their participation. Smell some reality coffee: http://gordonua.com/specprojects/titushki.html

Alan65
18-03-2014, 15:40
It's done, and with the great help of the U.S. of A. and EU. So much effort, money, preparation of special freedom fighters, all for the sake of a "democratic system" in Ukraine ... :10220: Russia had just to wait. She didn't send her delegations to the maydan, didn't give out cookies there, she was just waiting, and then did everything in accordance with the law which the West - what a miracle! - forgot about.

All the stink raised now by the West, their support of the "legitimate" anti-Russian government of Ukraine is actually a second spiral of the events. The more the West supports Kiev, the more protests it causes in the Eastern Ukraine. Russia has just to wait... Shall I continue? ;)

Crimea = Kallingrad MkII, the talk of it becoming a great tourist destination as it was in Soviet heydays will not happen, South of France, Thailand, Vietnam, Spain vs Crimea :hooray:

Probe
18-03-2014, 15:43
President Putin tells Russian Parliament that "in people's heart of hearts, Crimea has always been part of Russia"

AstarD
18-03-2014, 16:22
Well that makes it all OK, then.

TGP
18-03-2014, 16:31
[QUOTE=Russian Lad;1290329]Had to wait, right. You are so delusional and misinformed I don't know where to start even. Both parties were getting ready for this in advance, for like two years minimum, it seems. The West was preparing "freedom fighters" in Poland and so forth, Russia infiltrated Ukraine with gangs of titushki, many of them still operate in Donetsk, Kharkov and other Eastern cities, most of the unrest there you see on the Russian TV is staged with their participation. Smell some reality coffee: [url]http://gordonua.com/s


Yeah, yeah, yeah... heard that, Russia is guilty. Especially in the eyes of the Ukraine media. The Crimea also was flooded with titushki, I guess.

okiey
18-03-2014, 16:32
That has to be the swiftest annexation in history, and not a drop of blood spilt.

Alan65
18-03-2014, 16:45
That has to be the swiftest annexation in history, and not a drop of blood spilt.

So, what's next on the radar for you?

okiey
18-03-2014, 16:51
So, what's next on the radar for you?

Me ... booking some vaction for myself and my youngest daughter, probably a fortnight back home in Ireland.

GalinaK
18-03-2014, 17:01
Would not be so sure, but have the same feeling about the future.

okiey
18-03-2014, 17:06
Being serious Alan ... next on the radar, will be negotiations between Russia, Ukraine and the West.

Crimea is now under Russian control and that's not going to change.

Russia will not take any more territory off Ukraine or make any incursions militarily.

However, the government in Kiev in between a rock and a hard place.

They have seen that the West will not step in and assist, there is too much at stake. On top of all that, nobody is going to assist Ukraine financially while there is unrest in the East and South, so Kiev will have to negotiate with the eastern oblasts and Russia.

Russia will now play a waiting game, but time is not on Kiev's side.

The country is a mess and on the brink of bankruptsy, if they do not act soon, there will be unrest not only in the east, but also in the west of the country. People will tolerate the situation for a certain length of time, but ultimately people's patience will stretch.

Unless Kiev acts soon, I see splits appearing within the new regime there.

I think there will be behind the scenes negotiations between the US and Russia as to how to proceed, when they come to consensus, then the US will use its influence to maneuver Kiev.

Maybe after the May elections we will see a meaningful return to normality.

Probe
18-03-2014, 17:32
Crimea and Sevastopol are now officially part of the Russian Federation, the Kremlin said in a statement, citing today's signing ceremony involving Russian President Vladimir Putin, the Prime Minister of Crimea and the mayor of Sevastopol

Russian Lad
18-03-2014, 18:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah... heard that, Russia is guilty. Especially in the eyes of the Ukraine media. The Crimea also was flooded with titushki, I guess.

Both parties are guilty. Titushki were not needed in the Crimea, there were a lot of Men in Green instead, plus the locals, plus the existing military base in Sevastopol.

bydand
18-03-2014, 18:09
It's done, and with the great help of the U.S. of A. and EU.


Didn't your mother teach you, Don't accept gifts from strangers!!!

quincy
18-03-2014, 18:12
That has to be the swiftest annexation in history, and not a drop of blood spilt.it was a bloodless event probably because it became part of Ukraine in the 50s only by accident

Alan65
18-03-2014, 18:33
it was a bloodless event probably because it became part of Ukraine in the 50s only by accident

Some accident. .was it like putting a decimal point in the wrong place.

This is better than the captain of the Titanic.

vossy7
18-03-2014, 19:15
Some accident. .was it like putting a decimal point in the wrong place.

This is better than the captain of the Titanic.

Or the driver of an ar(C)tic convoy!

Alan65
18-03-2014, 19:25
Or the driver of an ar(C)tic convoy!

Hey sunshine....I have never crashed and sank, the truck can go anywhere in the world.

vossy7
18-03-2014, 19:29
Hey sunshine....I have never crashed and sank, the truck can go anywhere in the world.

Except to the artic, as you know it as:floating:

Alan65
18-03-2014, 19:30
Being serious Alan ... next on the radar, will be negotiations between Russia, Ukraine and the West.

Crimea is now under Russian control and that's not going to change.

Russia will not take any more territory off Ukraine or make any incursions militarily.

Okiey....being serious, who on the world stage now trusts Russia, does Europe trust Russia, do the Chinese trust Russia, once again Russia has played the only hand they have....you say it will be a waiting game, well, all that will happen is the EU will speed up its energy diversity policy, the Chinese will no longer trust Russia and will continue to stall on signing the long coveted gas agreement of Putin, the Chinese will continue to diversity.

Oh...and now Russian troops are storming a Ukraine military base with casualties....what did you say about bloodless.

Russia is now isolated from the world stage, Russia has played her last card.....I believe that you Irish call it giving someone the silent treatment, that is what Russia will now get, wait until the Russian middle classes go abroad, the middle classes that have been so pacified with 42" TVs and Ikea kitchens, holidays in the West, you name it....also lets remember that much of Russia still looks like it has just come out of the great patriotic war....and these are cities that the Germans never even bombed.

okiey
18-03-2014, 20:18
Firstly, it will take Europe at least three years to diversify its energy needs, according to industry experts. But where would that extra capacity come from?

Despite all the hype about shale gas, it has some serious drawbacks, one is that it is turning out to be more costly than initially envisaged and the other is the environmental impact.

Russia can easily replace EU demand in Asia.

I don't see any evidence that China has turned its back on Russia. I would see the abstention as a vote of confidence considering China's own separatist problems.

Russia won't be isolated for long. Investors aren't showing much fear, the MICEX rallied 4% today on top of the 5% yesterday. The ruble also gained for a second day running.

The crisis in Ukraine will not be solved without Russia, it will end up in a civil war, otherwise.





Okiey....being serious, who on the world stage now trusts Russia, does Europe trust Russia, do the Chinese trust Russia, once again Russia has played the only hand they have....you say it will be a waiting game, well, all that will happen is the EU will speed up its energy diversity policy, the Chinese will no longer trust Russia and will continue to stall on signing the long coveted gas agreement of Putin, the Chinese will continue to diversity.

Oh...and now Russian troops are storming a Ukraine military base with casualties....what did you say about bloodless.

Russia is now isolated from the world stage, Russia has played her last card.....I believe that you Irish call it giving someone the silent treatment, that is what Russia will now get, wait until the Russian middle classes go abroad, the middle classes that have been so pacified with 42" TVs and Ikea kitchens, holidays in the West, you name it....also lets remember that much of Russia still looks like it has just come out of the great patriotic war....and these are cities that the Germans never even bombed.

BTW is it Putin's birthday today ... Doku Umarov is dead:-)))

robertmf
18-03-2014, 20:22
Russia won't be isolated for long. Investors aren't showing much fear, the MICEX rallied 4% today on top of the 5% yesterday. The ruble also gained for a second day running.

The crisis in Ukraine will not be solved without Russia, it will end up in a civil war, otherwise.

Turkey Warns Russia it Will Blockade Bosphorus if Violence Occurs

:10293:

Alan65
18-03-2014, 20:26
Firstly, it will take Europe at least three years to diversify its energy needs, according to industry experts. But where would that extra capacity come from?

Despite all the hype about shale gas, it has some serious drawbacks, one is that it is turning out to be more costly than initially envisaged and the other is the environmental impact.

Russia can easily replace EU demand in Asia.

I don't see any evidence that China has turned its back on Russia. I would see the abstention as a vote of confidence considering China's own separatist problems.

Russia won't be isolated for long. Investors aren't showing much fear, the MICEX rallied 4% today on top of the 5% yesterday. The ruble also gained for a second day running.

The crisis in Ukraine will not be solved without Russia, it will end up in a civil war, otherwise.

EU has been diversifying for many years, it is just a case of speeding up, oh it we will have 3 cold winters....boo hoo.

Are you sure Asia will not look at Russia behaviour and think ...hmmm, do we want to rely on these people.

So, you gained a few points, what have you lost over the last year.

However...Russians have fired the first shots and killed the first military person.

Suuryaa
18-03-2014, 21:01
the EU will speed up its energy diversity policy

Maybe at last environment friendly resources will start being used.

okiey
18-03-2014, 21:12
Maybe at last environment friendly resources will start being used.

The Germans are hell-bent on closing all of their nuclear power plants, so there are few alternatives to gas.

Alan65
18-03-2014, 21:14
Maybe at last environment friendly resources will start being used.

They have been for years, this will just speed up the process....have you not seen electric cars in Paris or London, have you not seen the energy saving programmes, have you not noticed how cars must have more MPG etc.

Suuryaa
18-03-2014, 21:21
They have been for years, this will just speed up the process....have you not seen electric cars in Paris or London, have you not seen the energy saving programmes, have you not noticed how cars must have more MPG etc.

Very good. I dream of a day when we will be rid of stinking cars and industies.

Alan65
18-03-2014, 22:05
Very good. I dream of a day when we will be rid of stinking cars and industies.

Hey...come to Copenhagen, I wll even buy you a beer on Nyhavn, you will see what can be done, in fact come to many European cites and you will see it.

quincy
19-03-2014, 00:18
Well that makes it all OK, then.

yes it does. More importantly it was bloodless. The reason: Russia was welcomed in Crimea

how many died from NATO's bombing campaign in Yugoslavia in 1999 ?

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 04:55
Putin signs decree recognizing Crimea as a ‘sovereign and independent state’

Strange, Ukraine has a constitution that says it belongs to them. :10293:

FatAndy
19-03-2014, 05:11
Strange, Ukraine has a constitution that says it belongs to them. :10293:
Indeed. But ppl have decided another way. :)

Insha allah!

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 05:29
Indeed. But ppl have decided another way. :)

Insha allah!

Yes, an illegal way....
The Ukraine constitution was agreed and guaranteed by Russia.

Probe
19-03-2014, 10:32
Yes, an illegal way....
The Ukraine constitution was agreed and guaranteed by Russia.

Legal??? When was legal ever an issue here and or elsewhere?

FatAndy
19-03-2014, 10:39
Yes, an illegal way....
The Ukraine constitution was agreed and guaranteed by Russia.
The Ukraine constitution was f@#$%d by maidowns, as same as Ukraine itself. What we have to guarantee, if any?

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 11:09
The Ukraine constitution was f@#$%d by maidowns, as same as Ukraine itself. What we have to guarantee, if any?

Russia is a signatory of the The Budapest Memorandum (1994). Parts of that agreement which Russia signed include:
1. Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
2. Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine. (Wiki)

Russia is now in breach of that agreement

Probe
19-03-2014, 11:16
Did I miss a point here?? legal, breach, signatory, agreements, respect, sovereignty, threat of force............ sounds pretty familiar

okiey
19-03-2014, 11:34
All commitments to Ukraine were maintained while it was a legitimate sovereign state, but when the democratically alected government was overthrown and replaced by illigimate thugs all agreements are no longer binding.

okiey
19-03-2014, 11:40
Back in Ireland we used to joke that if there was a shower worse than the black and tans it is the catholic church.
The average Ukrainain will soon realise that if there was a shower worse than Yanukovich and the Party of the Regions it is the shower from Maidan.

They will also eventually realise that the shower from the West are much worse than Russia!

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 11:45
All commitments to Ukraine were maintained while it was a legitimate sovereign state, but when the democratically alected government was overthrown and replaced by illigimate thugs all agreements are no longer binding.


The president ran.
Wait for new elections then negotiate Crimea out of Ukraine.


Back in Ireland we used to joke that if there was a shower worse than the black and tans it is the catholic church.
The average Ukrainain will soon realise that if there was a shower worse than Yanukovich and the Party of the Regions it is the shower from Maidan.

They will also eventually realise that the shower from the West are much worse than Russia!

Can i please borrow your crystal ball? :D

quincy
19-03-2014, 11:55
The president ran.
Wait for new elections then negotiate Crimea out of Ukraine.

i'm sure we here could have all waited.

The Crimean people couldn't, they were fed up being told for 22 years that they were Ukrainian which they were/are not

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 12:01
i'm sure we here could have all waited.

The Crimean people couldn't, they were fed up being told for 22 years that they were Ukrainian which they were/are not

I understand and i have no problem with an independent Crimea or one which becomes a part of Russia. You just have to follow the law to achieve it.


All commitments to Ukraine were maintained while it was a legitimate sovereign state, but when the democratically alected government was overthrown and replaced by illigimate thugs all agreements are no longer binding.

Every time the legitimacy of a government comes into question, all agreements that have ever been signed with the people of that country are cancelled?
Think about it for a few minutes...but of course Russia is used to Bardak:p

okiey
19-03-2014, 12:26
The president ran.
Wait for new elections then negotiate Crimea out of Ukraine.

The President was overthrown.


Can i please borrow your crystal ball? :D

No need for any crystal balls now. The stuttering idiots handed Crimea to Russia on a platter.


I understand and i have no problem with an independent Crimea or one which becomes a part of Russia. You just have to follow the law to achieve it.

But they are following law, the precendent set by the US regarding Kosovo.

AstarD
19-03-2014, 12:42
But they are following law, the precendent set by the US regarding Kosovo.
When did Kosovo become a territory of the USA?

okiey
19-03-2014, 12:48
When did Kosovo become a territory of the USA?

I wasn't aware it did.

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 12:50
But they are following law, the precendent set by the US regarding Kosovo.

Ah, that old flawed logic. I think you did something bad so that means i can do it now! :D

AstarD
19-03-2014, 12:53
Ah, that old flawed logic. I think you did something bad so that means i can do it now! :D

Sort of like this (zoinked from another poster on another forum):

i) Yes, there is international law.
ii) Yes, there is international law regarding this specific eventuality.
iii) Yes, it applies here.
iv) BUT: others have broken the law.

Therefore,
v) It is okay to break the law; and,
vi) Furthermore, it doesn't count as breaking the law (since others may have broken the law).

Plus,
vii) Shuttupayourface.

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 13:02
But they are following law, the precendent set by the US regarding Kosovo.

Is it only when the US (allegedly) breaks the law that Russia is allowed to break the law as well or does it include other countries. If so which countries exactly? :D

Probe
19-03-2014, 13:07
Is it only when the US (allegedly) breaks the law that Russia is allowed to break the law as well or does it include other countries. If so which countries exactly? :D

I cannot believe what you are saying. Please wake up it is daytime

Pro-Russian activists enter Ukrainian naval base in Crimea - Russian flags seen flying from buildings

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 13:14
I cannot believe what you are saying. Please wake up it is daytime

It's a simple question.
People here are using the logic that it's okay for Russia to break a law when they think the US has broken a law.
Perhaps logic is not your strongest point, but that of course would beg the question is it only the US that this policy relates to or are there others?

okiey
19-03-2014, 13:19
Pro-Russian activists enter Ukrainian naval base in Crimea - Russian flags seen flying from buildings

Ukrainian soldier's are now occupying a Russian naval base:-)

Probe
19-03-2014, 13:41
It's a simple question.
People here are using the logic that it's okay for Russia to break a law when they think the US has broken a law.
Perhaps logic is not your strongest point, but that of course would beg the question is it only the US that this policy relates to or are there others?

First people do not think that USA has broken the law, they know it has done so blatantly. And it stands not alone here, forefront but definitely not alone.

Does this make it right for Russia to do so? Of course not

But this brings up the question why not? If USA and its so called allies can do so consistently why cannot Russia?

You in your logic are trying to disseminate the issue into separate parts so that it may fall into your logical understanding. Reality is different.

AstarD
19-03-2014, 13:43
Yeah, Nobby. Stop being so logical. That kind of thinking doesn't go over well in Russia.

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 13:51
First people do not think that USA has broken the law, they know it has done so blatantly. And it stands not alone here, forefront but definitely not alone.

Does this make it right for Russia to do so? Of course not

But this brings up the question why not? If USA and its so called allies can do so consistently why cannot Russia?

You in your logic are trying to disseminate the issue into separate parts so that it may fall into your logical understanding. Reality is different.

You've just said it is not right for Russia to break the law because America and it's allies have done so. Then you ask if America and it's allies can do so why can't Russia?
Which is it then? Russia can or can't?

So now we have America's allies on the list of those who if they break the law, it's okay for Russia to do so too. Any more countries to add to the list?
If not why are America and it's allies the only countries on this list?
What happens if the Chinese are seen to break and international law-it's okay for Russia to do it? What about Peru or Botswana?

Probe
19-03-2014, 14:04
Unfortunately I do not have as much time as you apparently do, to continue your logical debate :gay:

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 14:05
Unfortunately I do not have as much time as you apparently do, to continue your logical debate :gay:

You're argument is obviously weak then....:gay:

Ghostly Presence
19-03-2014, 14:17
You all seem to be talking about wrong things here – who did or did not break the law. I for one don’t care about the legal intricacies of this annexation. I do however care about the fact that I suddenly woke up in a different country. Yes, Russia was sliding toward totalitarian rule for a while now, but that gradual slide was still a long distance away from what this country suddenly became – an international outcast and the enemy of world peace. My future and the future of my children have become hostages of one man’s sick ambition to make it to the history books as the “collector of Russian lands”. At the time when most developing countries are erasing their national borders and moving towards ever close cooperation, Russia is back in business of building fences and raising barriers.

All that Russian talk about being a “brotherly nation” to Ukraine is not worth a dime. If Russia were truly a Ukraine’s friend, it would have never taken advantage of the country that obviously is going through very tough times, that just shook off an extrememly corrupt regime and is struggling to find its new path and its new identity. Friends don’t rob friends when they are sick and helpless and that is exactly what Russia did in Crimea.

It is all logical though. Unlike Germany that after WWII went through the painful process of admitting its guilt before the world and cleansing its national psyche of nazism, post-Soviet Russia never appologized for the Soviet crimes and occupations and never really got rid of its imperialistic mentality – we see the results of that today.

I am afraid the price that Russia will ultimately pay for this annexation is going to be high. Playing with the idea of separatism is a dangerous game in such a multinational country like Russia, especially when its economy is in trouble.

Yesterday this country started to build a wall between itself and the rest of the world and I do believe that when this fall eventually crumbles (and it will!), it will bury us Russians under its rubble.

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 14:24
.......Yesterday this country started to build a wall between itself and the rest of the world and I do believe that when this fall eventually crumbles (and it will!), it will bury us Russians under its rubble.

I agree, it's fallen before.

okiey
19-03-2014, 14:35
I agree, it's fallen before.

But gets up again!

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 15:06
But gets up again!


Ah, that's okay then. Don't let's worry about the pain and misery heaped on Russians meantime..:10293:

okiey
19-03-2014, 15:14
Ah, that's okay then. Don't let's worry about the pain and misery heaped on Russians meantime..:10293:

I must be living in a different Russia to you.

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 15:27
I must be living in a different Russia to you.

You obviously are.
Russians didn't suffer when the USSR collapsed and during the 1998 crisis? Perhaps it just slipped your mind...:rolleyes:

Sana
19-03-2014, 15:33
[QUOTE=Ghostly Presence;1290763]

Absolutely agree!

Ok, he (mr put*n) says Kosovo did the same? But did the US annex Kosovo at that time? No, they didn't.

He says the annexation of Crimea to Russia is legitimate? Well, I have a question then
Will any other country who has ever possessed any other lands in the past will be annexing them from now on and naming that legitimate / legal?

Ok, he says the number of Russian military troops is in accordance with the law and was not exceeding 25 000 in the Crimea region? Well, I have another question then. Why the hell were they circulating the civil objects in the towns and taking over UKR military bases?

Russia's naval base there? OK, it was under UKR law they were staying there and indeed still on the UKR territory which UKR kindly allowed to place for Russians. One more question then. If a naval base of one country is located in the territory of another country and it is in accordance to the law / agreement between two countries, does the fleet of the other country have the right to take over civil and military objects of the first country??? NO, IT DOES NOT!!!

Bloody hell, one man's sick ambition will make our country an international outcast as it was mentioned correctly above,

My personal opinion is that no way any one who has ever had any background in the security services / military organizations should become a leader of a country. Otherwise they will impose their services / military methods of influence on regular people and what's more, and this is the most devastating thing - on the whole world / on all countries in the world.

Suuryaa
19-03-2014, 15:37
All that Russian talk about being a brotherly nation to Ukraine is not worth a dime. If Russia were truly a Ukraines friend, it would have never taken advantage of the country

I think it not a secret that the main and maybe only reason for annexation of Crimea is Russia's naval base there. If Russia lost that base, the country would be really in trouble. As soon as the new government in Kiev spoke about Russia leaving the base, Crimea was annexed.

natlee
19-03-2014, 15:43
I must be living in a different Russia to you. :yikes: Have we taken Thailand, too? :ignore: :cool:

Ghostly Presence
19-03-2014, 15:46
[QUOTE=Ghostly Presence;1290763]

Absolutely agree!

Ok, he (mr put*n) says Kosovo did the same? But did the US annex Kosovo at that time? No, they didn't.

He says

We really should stop looking over our shoulder at the US all the time and compare Russia to the US. The US has its own story, they make their own mistakes. Wars in Kosovo, Iraq and Afganistan did not in any way affect the lives of average Russians, so why should we care about those political blunders? Moreover, US soldiers did die in some of those conflicts but beyond that the lives of average Americans were not adversely affected by those conflicts either. In case of Crimea I am afraid we will all feel the consequences of Putins decision. I resent bearing the brunt of the economic hardships brought about by one small man with a huge ego and a distorted view of the modern world.


I think it not a secret that the main and maybe only reason for annexation of Crimea is Russia's naval base there. If Russia lost that base, the country would be really in trouble. As soon as the new government in Kiev spoke about Russia leaving the base, Crimea was annexed.

No - the country would have not been in trouble! What nonsense! How can a country that has enough nuclear weapons to erase the world many times over be in trouble because of just one naval base??!!

This is not an excuse to chop off a piece of someone else's land!

okiey
19-03-2014, 15:51
You obviously are.
Russians didn't suffer when the USSR collapsed and during the 1998 crisis? Perhaps it just slipped your mind...:rolleyes:

But, wait, you don't live in Russia


:yikes: Have we taken Thailand, too? :ignore: :cool:

Only the beaches yet:-)

Sana
19-03-2014, 16:15
[quote=Sana;1290788]



We really should stop looking over our shoulder at the US all the time and compare Russia to the US. The US has its own story, they make their own mistakes. Wars in Kosovo, Iraq and Afganistan did not in any way affect the lives of average Russians, so why should we care about those political blunders? Moreover, US soldiers did die in some of those conflicts but beyond that the lives of average Americans were not adversely affected by those conflicts either. In case of Crimea I am afraid we will all feel the consequences of Putins decision. I resent bearing the brunt of the economic hardships brought about by one small man with a huge ego and a distorted view of the modern world.


The worrying thing is that this small man with a huge ego is being supported by so many people that we will hardly be able to change anything,,,in the nearest future.

okiey
19-03-2014, 16:26
[quote=Ghostly Presence;1290792]


The worrying thing is that this small man with a huge ego is being supported by so many people that we will hardly be able to change anything,,,in the nearest future.

Who does the "WE" represent? Are Russians not entitled to choose their own leader and direction?

Or does "WE" know better?

Putin's approval ratings have risen markedly in the past year. It stood at 69% in February, according to Levada!

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 16:27
But, wait, you don't live in Russia


No and I still know more about the place than you! ;)

Now tell us how the Russians didn't suffer with the collapse of the USSR and 1998 crisis;)

Ghostly Presence
19-03-2014, 16:30
[quote=Ghostly Presence;1290792]


The worrying thing is that this small man with a huge ego is being supported by so many people that we will hardly be able to change anything,,,in the nearest future.

Yes, this is perhaps the saddest thing of all. People are blinded by nationalism and neo-imperialism and I don't see any political figure in Russia who could lead this nation out of the looming darkness.


[quote=Sana;1290799]

Who does the "WE" represent? Are Russians not entitled to choose their own leader and direction?

Or does "WE" know better?

Putin's approval ratings have risen markedly in the past year. It stood at 69% in February, according to Levada!

Hitler was even more popular in his good years. We all know how that worked out for Germans in the end....

okiey
19-03-2014, 16:33
No and I still know more about the place than you! ;)

Now tell us how the Russians didn't suffer with the collapse of the USSR and 1998 crisis;)

You're the self-professed expert, enlighted us ...


[quote=okiey;1290801]

Hitler was even more popular in his good years. We all know how that worked out for Germans in the end....

I'm not an expert on Nazism, but thanks for sharing that

AstarD
19-03-2014, 16:40
You're the self-professed expert, enlighted us ...
Nobby has lived long-term in Russia before.

quincy
19-03-2014, 16:41
Or does "WE" know better?



"WE" know what is good for you, you lesser beings!

Sounds pretty 19th century!


[QUOTE=Ghostly Presence;1290763]


Will any other country who has ever possessed any other lands in the past will be annexing them from now on and naming that legitimate
lands have populations and if a majority wants to change its status then it should be allowed. NATO went to war against Yugoslavia bombing it for many months in 1999 claiming this very point.

okiey
19-03-2014, 16:46
Nobby has lived long-term in Russia before.

Wow

TolkoRaz
19-03-2014, 16:54
Pro-Russian activists enter Ukrainian naval base in Crimea - Russian flags seen flying from buildings

Actually, it is now a RF Naval base unless the UKR are leasing it from the RF! ;)

Sana
19-03-2014, 16:56
[quote=Sana;1290799]



Who does the "WE" represent? Are Russians not entitled to choose their own leader and direction?



Or does "WE" know better?



Putin's approval ratings have risen markedly in the past year. It stood at 69% in February, according to Levada!


We - Russian people in our minority who see eye to eye with the international community.

Honestly, I nearly puked while watching and listening to our leader's yesterday's speech as well as those applauses and ovation.
That is another well organized and well staged performance by the Kremlin.

I am only very surprised that you don't watch TVRAIN / DOZHD - you would understand who i mean when saying "WE". Anyway, it is in Russian, but the foreign mass media sources are covering these present events over Crimea in the right way.

Agree, Hitler used to be more popular at one time. I find our Russian pro-kremlin men more nazis than those nazis during WW2.
You don't know how they violate human rights in our country.


[quote=Sana;1290799]



Yes, this is perhaps the saddest thing of all. People are blinded by nationalism and neo-imperialism and I don't see any political figure in Russia who could lead this nation out of the looming darkness.


Neither do I. But this current propaganda over the Russian TV really reminds me of a very strict regime known from movies when during Stalin's time one could suffer severely for expressing their own opinion - that is much more nazi than the propaganda of those who are in Maidan.

TolkoRaz
19-03-2014, 17:07
[quote=Ghostly Presence;1290803]


Neither do I. But this current propaganda over the Russian TV really reminds me of a very strict regime known from movies when during Stalin's time one could suffer severely for expressing their own opinion - that is much more nazi than propaganda of those who are in Maidan.

How many unarmed people did the Nazis in the Maidan kill?

okiey
19-03-2014, 17:07
I respect your view Sana and understand your position.

By I think Putin has done a lot of positive things for Russia. The country was an absolute mess on the verge of collapse when he took the helm.
The system is not perfect or democratic, but it works somehow. He has improved the lives of tens of millions poorer Russians over the past decade.



[quote=okiey;1290801]


We - Russian people in our minority who see eye to eye with the international community.

Honestly, I nearly puked while watching and listening to our leader's yesterday's speech as well as those applause and ovation.
That is another well organized and well staged performance by the Kremlin.

I am only very surprised that you don't watch TVRAIN / DOZHD - you would understand who i mean when saying "WE". Anyway, it is in Russian, but the foreign mass media sources are covering these present events over Crimea in the right way.

Agree, Hitler used to be more popular at one time. I find our Russian pro-kremlin men more nazis than those nazis during WW2.
You don't know how they violate human rights in our country.

quincy
19-03-2014, 17:12
In modern times, Moscow has staged three major invasions: Hungary in November 1956 and Czechoslovakia in August 1968, when the Communist governments there began showing dangerously Western tendencies; and Afghanistan in December 1979, when the pro-Communist regime was on the point of collapse.

These were huge and brutal operations, involving large numbers of tanks, and sometimes great bloodshed.

The takeover of Crimea has been completely different. This was an infiltration, not an invasion. And unlike in Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan it was welcomed by a large proportion of the local population.

John Simpson
World Affairs Editor, BBC News

BBC website

Sana
19-03-2014, 17:18
[quote=Sana;1290830]



How many unarmed people did the Nazis in the Maidan kill?


That's again a very strange propaganda - they are killed by the Yanukovich regime forces.

It was discussed during a televised session over DOZHD when a famous actress (half Ukrainian/ half Russian) mentioned that those on Maidan could never be called nazis, that our Russian propaganda is very wrong and that regular Ukrainians would deliberately go to Maidan square to socialize with people when they felt blue and wanted to communicate, that they were pretty sick of the Yanukovich regime and could not tolerate that any longer, that the majority of ordinary people were of cause against Yanukovitch's corrupted regime.

Ghostly Presence
19-03-2014, 17:21
Not so long ago I watched a very educating German film about the rise of Hitler where old Germans were speaking about their personal experiences of growing up in Nazi Germany. You know what? Hitler initially also did a lot of great things for Germany - he raised it out of economic collapse, did a lot of good things to improve the conditions of the working and the middle classes and German families. For the majority of Germans back then he was a hero. If only he stopped at that! But he couldn't - his worldview and his motives were twisted and evil. I believe there are a lot of parallels between Germany in the 1930s and today's Russia, unfortunately.

okiey
19-03-2014, 17:26
Personally I don't know of anyone who sees Putin as a hero or who glorifies him.

There aren't exactly qeues lining up to march in his support.



Not so long ago I watched a very educating German film about the rise of Hitler where old Germans were speaking about their personal experiences of growing up in Nazi Germany. You know what? Hitler initially also did a lot of great things for Germany - he raised it out of economic collapse, did a lot of good things to improve the conditions of the working and the middle classes and German families. For the majority of Germans back then he was a hero. If only he stopped at that! But he couldn't - his worldview and his motives were twisted and evil. I believe there are a lot of parallels between Germany in the 1930s and today's Russia, unfortunately.

Sana
19-03-2014, 17:26
BBC website


Yes, yes, and done at gunpoint.

quincy
19-03-2014, 17:26
Not so long ago I watched a very educating German film about the rise of Hitler where old Germans were speaking about their personal experiences of growing up in Nazi Germany. You know what? Hitler initially also did a lot of great things for Germany - he raised it out of economic collapse, did a lot of good things to improve the conditions of the working and the middle classes and German families. For the majority of Germans back then he was a hero. If only he stopped at that! But he couldn't - his worldview and his motives were twisted and evil. I believe there are a lot of parallels between Germany in the 1930s and today's Russia, unfortunately.

when he came to power he was also welcomed by governments/elites in the UK and France.

Sana
19-03-2014, 17:28
Personally I don't know of anyone who sees Putin as a hero or who glorifies him.



There aren't exactly qeues lining up to march in his support.


Not at all. I see exactly the glorification of Putin, which is frightening.


when he came to power he was also welcomed by governments/elites in the UK and France.


And they got disappointed much later.

okiey
19-03-2014, 17:29
Not at all. I see exactly the glorification of Putin, which is frightening.

Glorification by the state aparatus, or genuienly by Russian people?

quincy
19-03-2014, 17:32
And they got disappointed much later.

only because he stopped doing what was expected of him.

he overstepped the mark, like Saddam

Sana
19-03-2014, 17:35
Glorification by the state aparatus, or genuienly by Russian people?


Yes, by regular / ordinary Russians like my mother who don't know what the Internet is and who refuse pointblank to watch any other channels except for the Federal ones,

I know that you are trying to understand my point, and thank you for that. But very few people on here watch DOZHD Or listen to the Echo of Moscow radio - actually you would learn the real picture of what is happening.

okiey
19-03-2014, 17:42
and Lenta.ru, at least until last week, unfortunetly.


Yes, by regular / ordinary Russians like my mother who don't know what the Internet is and who refuse pointblank to watch any other channels except for the Federal ones,

I know that you are trying to understand my point, and thank you for that. But very few people on here watch DOZHD Or listen to the Echo of Moscow radio - actually you would learn the real picture of what is happening.

robertmf
19-03-2014, 17:44
Personally I don't know of anyone who sees Putin as a hero or who glorifies him.

There aren't exactly qeues lining up to march in his support.

What else did anyone rationally expect from an East Germany KGB officer :question: As bad as the Stassi (almost) :devilish:

Sana
19-03-2014, 17:50
and Lenta.ru, at least until last week, unfortunetly.


Yep.


What else did anyone rationally expect from an East Germany KGB officer :question: As bad as the Stassi (almost) :devilish:






And yep!

Ivanbor
19-03-2014, 17:51
Guys, I hardly watch the news so don't quite understand : Crimea now belongs to Putin or is it an independent state?:question:

okiey
19-03-2014, 17:53
Guys, I hardly watch the news so don't quite understand : Crimea now belongs to Putin or is it an independent state?:question:

Don't worry yourself about it mate:-)

Ivanbor
19-03-2014, 17:56
Don't worry yourself about it mate:-)

I need to know if they will take rubles next time I am there.

okiey
19-03-2014, 17:59
I need to know if they will take rubles next time I am there.

Yes, it will soon be rubles.

FatAndy
19-03-2014, 18:24
But very few people on here watch DOZHD Or listen to the Echo of Moscow radio - actually you would learn the real picture of what is happening.
Sanochka, you've forgot the third whale of RF liberastic media - Novaya gazeta. BTW do you know if they've employed those idlers from Lenta.vru? ;)


What else did anyone rationally expect from an East Germany KGB officer :question: As bad as the Stassi (almost) :devilish:

No, comrade! Even worse than CIA! :D

Gervais
19-03-2014, 18:36
Not so long ago I watched a very educating German film about the rise of Hitler where old Germans were speaking about their personal experiences of growing up in Nazi Germany. You know what? Hitler initially also did a lot of great things for Germany - he raised it out of economic collapse, did a lot of good things to improve the conditions of the working and the middle classes and German families. For the majority of Germans back then he was a hero. If only he stopped at that! But he couldn't - his worldview and his motives were twisted and evil. I believe there are a lot of parallels between Germany in the 1930s and today's Russia, unfortunately.

... and observing the Pro-Putin / Crimea-annexation demonstration last Saturday on Tsvetnoy bulvard, where about 3.000 people marching in uniformed dresses with army boots waving flags with "CCCP 2.0" to marching music and holding up pictures showing Yatzenuk in a konzentration camp scared the shit out of me... could have been 1938... in Germany



I'm not an expert on Nazism, but thanks for sharing that

You better do some research...

FatAndy
19-03-2014, 18:39
I think it not a secret that the main and maybe only reason for annexation of Crimea is Russia's naval base there. If Russia lost that base, the country would be really in trouble. As soon as the new government in Kiev spoke about Russia leaving the base, Crimea was annexed.
No, Crimea also has military airfields, which may be used to control Black Sea and Balkanes and Mediterranian area ;)

Sana
19-03-2014, 18:46
No, Crimea also has military airfields, which may be used to control Black Sea and Balkanes and Mediterranian area ;)


Yes, and it is obviously not the reason for the military forces of Crimea to take over the Balkan countries, nor the countries located on the Mediterranean shores.


... and observing the Pro-Putin / Crimea-annexation demonstration last Saturday on Tsvetnoy bulvard, where about 3.000 people marching in uniformed dresses with army boots waving flags with "CCCP 2.0" to marching music and holding up pictures showing Yatzenuk in a konzentration camp scared the shit out of me... could have been 1938... in Germany







You better do some research...


I also got really scared while watching that weird parade - they have completely gone bonkers,

In fact, at times I question Putin's sanity.

FatAndy
19-03-2014, 18:51
Yes, and it is obviously not the reason for the military forces of Crimea to take over the Balkanes countries, nor the countries located on the Mediterranean shores.
Military forces will take over Balkanes (or other) countries not by reason, but by order, if any - like any other army does ;)

Sana
19-03-2014, 18:54
Military forces will take over Balkanes (or other) countries not by reason, but by order, if any - like any other army does ;)


Sure by order of a "small man with a huge ego", like the one in 1938 in Poland.,.

FatAndy
19-03-2014, 18:56
Sure by order of a "small man with a huge ego", like the one in 1938 in Poland.,.
What has happened in Poland in 1938 and who was Polish small man? :suspect:

Gervais
19-03-2014, 18:57
What has happened in Poland in 1938?

Poland was 1939...
1938 was "Sudetenland" (now CZ) and Austria (now Austria)

okiey
19-03-2014, 18:58
Sure by order of a "small man with a huge ego", like the one in 1938 in Poland.,.

Imagine if Peter the Great had been a small guy

Sana
19-03-2014, 18:58
What has happened in Poland in 1938?


Oh mama mia....hitler actually took over Poland in 1938. WW2 started.

Yep .Gervais corrected me right.

Gervais
19-03-2014, 19:00
Oh mama mia....hitler actually took over Poland in 1938. WW2 started.

Yep .Gervais corrected me correctly,

Sep 1939 my dear... 5:45 am to be exact

Sana
19-03-2014, 19:01
Imagine if Peter the Great had been a small guy


He was the great guy with huge ambitions,

okiey
19-03-2014, 19:02
Sep 1939 my dear... 5:45 am to be exact

The early bird gets the worm:)

Gervais
19-03-2014, 19:07
The early bird gets the worm:)

I can NOT smile about this ...

Sana
19-03-2014, 19:29
I can NOT smile about this ...


Neither can I !

Wow wow...the UK is closing the visa centers in Russia........

AstarD
19-03-2014, 19:47
But don't panic. It's a change of company. The new company (Teleperformance) will be acceptingi them in Moscow from March 24, 2014, in their offices in the Delta Plaza business center near Metro Kurskaya.

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 20:38
Wow

Knowing more than you about Russia does not make me an expert.....honestly! :10293:

Nobbynumbnuts
19-03-2014, 20:42
:yikes: Have we taken Thailand, too? :ignore: :cool:

Not yet but we'll have an idea it's about to happen when Pattaya is taken! :D


[quote=Ghostly Presence;1290792]


The worrying thing is that this small man with a huge ego is being supported by so many people that we will hardly be able to change anything,,,in the nearest future.

It's all happened before. Media controlled by the state, little or no political dissent allowed, the elevation of leaders to personality cults. It will end in tears for Russia as it has in the past..


Personally I don't know of anyone who sees Putin as a hero or who glorifies him.

There aren't exactly qeues lining up to march in his support.

Large rallies in many cities across Russia on Wednesday in support of Putin. Media is full of Russian citizens praising Putin, "Putin we love you", "Putin we bow down to you" etc etc etc

AstarD
19-03-2014, 21:16
But don't panic. It's a change of company. The new company (Teleperformance) will be acceptingi them in Moscow from March 24, 2014, in their offices in the Delta Plaza business center near Metro Kurskaya.


26317

robertmf
19-03-2014, 21:22
If it wasn't official before, it is now - National Geographic (http://rt.com/news/national-geographic-map-crimea-758/) is mapping Crimea as part of Russia :11109:

okiey
19-03-2014, 21:25
Large rallies in many cities across Russia on Wednesday in support of Putin. Media is full of Russian citizens praising Putin, "Putin we love you", "Putin we bow down to you" etc etc etc

There were large rallies, in fact the largest ever in support of the government.

Chatting to friends, I sense that a lot of Russians are happy to have Crimea back, and that was what was mostly being celebrated.

Suuryaa
19-03-2014, 21:42
... and observing the Pro-Putin / Crimea-annexation demonstration last Saturday on Tsvetnoy bulvard, where about 3.000 people marching in uniformed dresses with army boots waving flags with "CCCP 2.0" to marching music and holding up pictures showing Yatzenuk in a konzentration

People, do you really believe these demonstrations are genuine? The participants just were told to go there, mostly by their bosses. Same like elections. You go and are registered, otherwise you lose your job.

I think I will be expressing many Russians' position if I say I don't like Putin, but the other candidates are much worse. So I support him because at least the country isn't in a mess. Those who were here in the nineties know how close we were to it.

Gervais
19-03-2014, 21:58
People, do you really believe these demonstrations are genuine? The participants just were told to go there, mostly by their bosses. Same like elections. You go and are registered, otherwise you lose your job.

I think I will be expressing many Russians' position if I say I don't like Putin, but the other candidates are much worse. So I support him because at least the country isn't in a mess. Those who were here in the nineties know how close we were to it.

Unintended you are supporting my argument: Of course this was an organised demonstration by "united Russia" party. But if people are organized and can be told to go there or there are now alternatives and basically now independant local press this is the 1st step. It's a not far from organized rallies which "attract" thousands to a mass hysteria attracting millions... history has shown that before...

quincy
19-03-2014, 22:17
Unintended you are supporting my argument: Of course this was an organised demonstration by "united Russia" party. But if people are organized and can be told to go there or there are now alternatives and basically now independant local press this is the 1st step. It's a not far from organized rallies which "attract" thousands to a mass hysteria attracting millions... history has shown that before...

in the UK and other parts of the western world there may not be organized demos but the media operate as the PR department of foreign ministries. The media have fully backed all of the wars in the last 20 years, some of them illegal, and there has been little debate or dissent

Suuryaa
19-03-2014, 22:29
Of course this was an organised demonstration by "united Russia" party. But if people are organized and can be told to go there or there are now alternatives and basically now independant local press this is the 1st step. It's a not far from organized rallies which "attract" thousands to a mass hysteria attracting millions... history has shown that before...

They do not attract anyone. People are just made to go there.


Unintended you are supporting my argument

I don't divide people into "us" and "them". And don't feel an urgent need to refute your words only because "you belong to another camp".

Russian Lad
19-03-2014, 22:45
I think I will be expressing many Russians' position if I say I don't like Putin, but the other candidates are much worse.

You are expressing the opinion of lumpens.:) They are always afraid.:) You know what? I have just watched the meeting of the government. I have seen fear in their eyes.
Okiey, how is our bet?:) You still count on the party of regions in Ukraine?:)

Suuryaa
19-03-2014, 22:51
You know what? I have just watched the meeting of the government. I have seen fear in their eyes.

Have they discovered that their job isn't only squeezing as much money as they can from the country?

Russian Lad
19-03-2014, 22:58
Have they discovered that their job isn't only squeezing as much money as they can from the country?

Don't know about that. But this animal fear in their eyes, I have enjoyed it.:) They are lying too much now. It is a matter of time.

TolkoRaz
19-03-2014, 23:07
If it wasn't official before, it is now - National Geographic (http://rt.com/news/national-geographic-map-crimea-758/) is mapping Crimea as part of Russia :11109:

And, the CIA are rewriting their World Fact Book! :D

They had better redraw Moldova's borders to! ;)

Alan65
19-03-2014, 23:08
Not yet but we'll have an idea it's about to happen when Pattaya is taken! :D

Russians take all the good places, I am starting to get worried for the Isle of Sheppey and Anglesey :D

TolkoRaz
19-03-2014, 23:09
If Russians do not take it, they buy it! ;)

Alan65
19-03-2014, 23:14
If Russians do not take it, they buy it! ;)

Then, why did you not just buy Crimea :D

Or is there nothing the Oligarchs wish to put their money into.

TolkoRaz
19-03-2014, 23:17
The 'Advance Guard' have their orders and are out looking for other suitable peninsulas! :10310:

Alan65
19-03-2014, 23:20
The 'Advance Guard' have their orders and are out looking for other suitable peninsulas! :10310:

Peninsulas are not good places to take, even Thatcher knew she had to give Kowloon back to the Chinese....you better build that bridge quickly and put a water and electricity supply in.

Judge
19-03-2014, 23:21
It's a simple question.
People here are using the logic that it's okay for Russia to break a law when they think the US has broken a law.
Perhaps logic is not your strongest point, but that of course would beg the question is it only the US that this policy relates to or are there others?

The international law is a joke, countries have pissed all over the laws for years.Israel,the US and the UK come to mind .... they get away with it because they have a big enough military and Israel's case the backing of the US , no one is going to mess with them.Right or wrong with Crimea, Russia's got a military that no other army wants to take on.

MashaSashina
19-03-2014, 23:26
I have relatives in Sevastopol - my niece with husband and 2 kids. Talked to her today and asked if she'd like to hear congratulations or condolences (they run own business, and 90% of their customers are located in western Ukraine). Even facing huge financial risks they are happy to return to Russia.

My mom spent her youth in Semfiropol, then moved to Magadan region for a couple of decades and never came back because Crimea suddenly became Ukrainian. I spent more that a year in Sevastopol when I was 13 (summer 1995 - summer 1996) and remember how everyone was shocked that they live in Ukraine now: have to study Ukrainian language (nobody knew it), History (and being kids we laughed a lot that you can just say that everything started in Ukrain and get "A" - maybe a content of those first books had something to do with that).

Anyway, I hope it's really done - a huge mistake from the past is corrected now, and wish the population of Crimea a happy return. :)

Judge
19-03-2014, 23:29
The Freedom party.
click on link to see video
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26653295

The acting chief executive of Ukraine's state broadcaster has been forced to sign a resignation letter - by MPs who broke into his office.

The group of men, from the far-right Svoboda party, were angry with Oleksandr Panteleymonov's decision to broadcast a ceremony from the Kremlin on Tuesday.

It showed Russian President Putin signing a bill to make Ukraine's Crimea region part of Russia.

The MPs filmed themselves beating Mr Panteleymonov over the head until he gave in to their demands.

Alan65
19-03-2014, 23:31
I have relatives in Sevastopol - my niece with husband and 2 kids. Talked to her today and asked if she'd like to hear congratulations or condolences (they run own business, and 90% of their customers are located in western Ukraine). Even facing huge financial risks they are happy to return to Russia.

My mom spent her youth in Semfiropol, then moved to Magadan region for a couple of decades and never came back because Crimea suddenly became Ukrainian. I spent more that a year in Sevastopol when I was 13 (summer 1995 - summer 1996) and remember how everyone was shocked that they live in Ukraine now: have to study Ukrainian language (nobody knew it), History (and being kids we laughed a lot that you can just say that everything started in Ukrain and get "A" - maybe a content of those first books had something to do with that).

Anyway, I hope it's really done - a huge mistake from the past is corrected now, and wish the population of Crimea a happy return. :)

As this is RT I will take it with a pinch of salt, but maybe they not have to many travel plans

http://rt.com/news/urkaine-cis-visa-demilitarized-917/

MashaSashina
19-03-2014, 23:37
As this is RT I will take it with a pinch of salt, but maybe they not have to many travel plans

http://rt.com/news/urkaine-cis-visa-demilitarized-917/
I can't imagine why to go to Ukraine when there is no Crimea in it any more.

Judge
19-03-2014, 23:38
As this is RT I will take it with a pinch of salt, but maybe they not have to many travel plans

http://rt.com/news/urkaine-cis-visa-demilitarized-917/

Alan, you're starting to get the RT bug....Soon you will be watching the RT channel...

Alan65
19-03-2014, 23:42
Alan, you're starting to get the RT bug....Soon you will be watching the RT channel...

I also read Viz, The Onion and The Daily Mash :D

TolkoRaz
19-03-2014, 23:50
The Freedom party.
click on link to see video
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26653295

The acting chief executive of Ukraine's state broadcaster has been forced to sign a resignation letter - by MPs who broke into his office.

The group of men, from the far-right Svoboda party, were angry with Oleksandr Panteleymonov's decision to broadcast a ceremony from the Kremlin on Tuesday.

It showed Russian President Putin signing a bill to make Ukraine's Crimea region part of Russia.

The MPs filmed themselves beating Mr Panteleymonov over the head until he gave in to their demands.

Reminds me of the Nazis at work! ;)

FatAndy
20-03-2014, 00:08
Poland was 1939...
1938 was "Sudetenland" (now CZ) and Austria (now Austria)
Danke schoen, Genosse, Ich las ein Geschichtsbuch viel Jahre rueckwaerts ;)


Large rallies in many cities across Russia on Wednesday in support of Putin. Media is full of Russian citizens praising Putin, "Putin we love you", "Putin we bow down to you" etc etc etc
Comrade, please admit it as a man. Unfortunately you're not an alpha male in RF anymore :)

TolkoRaz
20-03-2014, 00:13
Danke schoen, Genosse, Ich las ein Geschichtsbuch viel Jahre rueckwaerts ;)


Comrade, please admit it as a man. Unfortunately you're not an alpha male in RF anymore :)

There are more Alfa Males in the RF than anywhere else, and that now includes The Krim! ;)

FatAndy
20-03-2014, 00:44
I can't imagine why to go to Ukraine when there is no Crimea in it any more.
Mashen'ka,

Kiev (KIEV) is the most beautiful city of exUSSR. ;)

Excuse me my broken French, but Huyuschenki, maidowns and banderlogs come and leave, but Kiev remains.

For 23 years of "independence" no one has created smth even a bit close to Igor Naumovich Shamo and Dmitry Yemel'yanovich Lutsenko masterpiece of Kiev's anthem:
http://www.sovmusic.ru/m/kievmoy.mp3

Киеве мий
Музыка: И. Шамо Слова: Д. Луценко

Д. Луценко

ЯК ТЕБЕ НЕ ЛЮБИТИ, КИЄВЕ МІЙ

Грає море зелене,
Тихий день догора.
Дорогими для мене
Стали схили Дніпра,

Де колишуться віти
Закоханих мрій
Як тебе не любити,
Києве мій!

В очі дивляться канни,
Серце в них переллю.
Хай розкажуть коханій,
Як я вірно люблю.

Буду мріяти й жити
На крилах надій
Як тебе не любити,
Києве мій!

Спить натомлене місто
Мирним, лагідним сном.
Ген вогні, як намисто,
Розцвіли над Дніпром.

Вечорів оксамити
Мов щастя прибій
Як тебе не любити,
Києве мій!

robertmf
20-03-2014, 00:56
The consenus here on expat.ru seems to be the Crimea action to be a good one. The contrarian viewpoint is made by this week's TIME magazine essay (http://time.com/11952/putin-ukraine-crimea-russia/).



At home, this intervention looks to be the one of the most unpopular decisions Putin has ever made.

The economic impact on Russia is already staggering.

Russias isolation from the West will deepen dramatically.

And what about the upside for Putin? Source of draftees

FatAndy
20-03-2014, 01:02
Neither can I !

Wow wow...the UK is closing the visa centers in Russia........

;)

http://4put.ru/pictures/max/0/2123.jpg

FatAndy
20-03-2014, 01:07
The 'Advance Guard' have their orders and are out looking for other suitable peninsulas! :10310:
Yes, Aksyonov with friends is now discussing - what is correct - "on Alaska" or "in Alaska"?

;)

robertmf
20-03-2014, 01:12
Yes, Aksyonov with friends is now discussing - what is correct - "on Alaska" or "in Alaska"?

;)

:devilish:
:evilgrin:

FatAndy
20-03-2014, 01:20
:devilish:
:evilgrin:
Do you mean you like more "in Alaska"? NP, they even may save American driving licences and SSNs. :)

robertmf
20-03-2014, 01:32
Do you mean you like more "in Alaska"? NP, they even may save American driving licences and SSNs. :)

I suspect the Russians already have plenty of those ;)

FatAndy
20-03-2014, 01:53
http://comicsbook.ru/upload/plan-na-blizhayshee-vremya.jpg

robertmf
20-03-2014, 03:26
He can cross off taking the kids to Disneyland, too :cussing:

FatAndy
20-03-2014, 03:27
Especially for Sanochka and... hmmm... our dear foreign friends fooled by so called "independent Western media":

Оппозиционная интеллигенция провела антивоенный конгресс ("Собрались все наши. Как обычно, курили траву, ругали Путина.")

Opposition intellectuals have hold the anti-military congress ("all ours have collected together - as usual, smoked a hemp and abused Putin")

TolkoRaz
20-03-2014, 11:36
http://comicsbook.ru/upload/plan-na-blizhayshee-vremya.jpg

I am sure I read somewhere recently that VVP has created a new Arctic or Alaska Military Command / District! ;)

FatAndy
20-03-2014, 18:10
I am sure I read somewhere recently that VVP has created a new Arctic or Alaska Military Command / District! ;)
Several days ago there were paratrooper trainings on Novosibirskie islands :)


The consenus here on expat.ru seems to be the Crimea action to be a good one. The contrarian viewpoint is made by this week's TIME magazine essay (http://time.com/11952/putin-ukraine-crimea-russia/).

Yes, Syoma Shuster, famous representative of so called "independent media" ;)

Ivanbor
20-03-2014, 18:18
I think I am falling in love with Putin. You know, it is typical situation , when 2 people hate each other like real enemies and then fall in love with each other madly :D This man whose face used to seem to me ugly and indifferent, now illuminates power and sexiness. Yes, baby, you may have Crimea if you want. :SwoonLoveSmiley::SwoonLoveSmiley:

TolkoRaz
20-03-2014, 18:55
I think I am falling in love with Putin. You know, it is typical situation , when 2 people hate each other like real enemies and then fall in love with each other madly :D This man whose face used to seem to me ugly and indifferent, now illuminates power and sexiness. Yes, baby, you may have Crimea if you want. :SwoonLoveSmiley::SwoonLoveSmiley:

Sounds like he can 'have' you to! ;)

robertmf
20-03-2014, 19:36
This man whose face used to seem to me ugly and indifferent, now illuminates power and sexiness. Yes, baby, you may have Crimea if you want. :SwoonLoveSmiley::SwoonLoveSmiley:

:groan: Your taste in men is in extreme doubt :tongue:

FatAndy
20-03-2014, 19:44
:groan: Your taste in men is in extreme doubt :tongue:
De gustibus non est disputandum, lieber Freund ;) I also like girls more.

Ivanbor
20-03-2014, 20:21
Sounds like he can 'have' you to! ;)
What do you mean? :suspect:


:groan: Your taste in men is in extreme doubt :tongue:
As most Russians' is :emote_popcorn:
Yeah, the nose is spectacular :D

robertmf
20-03-2014, 20:29
Yeah, the nose is spectacular :D

"The Nose"

TolkoRaz
20-03-2014, 20:47
Several days ago there were paratrooper trainings on Novosibirskie islands :)


Yes, Syoma Shuster, famous representative of so called "independent media" ;)

Would this assist Alaskan aspirations?

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140217/187620827/Russia-to-Set-Up-Arctic-Military-Command-by-2015.html

Judge
22-03-2014, 11:53
I think I am falling in love with Putin. You know, it is typical situation , when 2 people hate each other like real enemies and then fall in love with each other madly :D This man whose face used to seem to me ugly and indifferent, now illuminates power and sexiness. Yes, baby, you may have Crimea if you want. :SwoonLoveSmiley::SwoonLoveSmiley:

I think many in Russia and even abroad share your feelings towards Putin because of the whole Crimea affair..Not in Russians wildest dreams would they ever believe that Crimea would be part of Russia again.
Russians reading a Chekov story about Crimea, Yalta and 'White Dacha' knowing it used to be part of Russia, now wake up knowing that Crimea really does belong to Russia..

Russian Lad
22-03-2014, 12:56
Are you looking forward to the Football Cup in 2018 in Russia, Judge?:) I do...

TolkoRaz
22-03-2014, 13:08
Are you looking forward to the Football Cup in 2018 in Russia, Judge?:) I do...

If this sanctions situation continues, there may be calls to boycott the Football Cup!

Judge
22-03-2014, 13:11
Are you looking forward to the Football Cup in 2018 in Russia, Judge?:) I do...

Of course, being a football fan, can't wait...Already making plans with friends who live abroad .

Russian Lad
22-03-2014, 13:16
If this sanctions situation continues, there may be calls to boycott the Football Cup!

:) Well, like I said the Crimea, it seems to me, was a trap all along. Of course the sanctions will continue. I just hope Internet and 100% of Visa/MasterCard transactions are not affected. Paypal came to Russia only recently, hope it stays here as well.
You don't understand why I mention the Cup. Say, the situation economically gets worse here (I don't see any reasons why it should be getting better within 3-4 years or even remaining the same), the Cup is cancelled all of a sudden. What do you get? Right, thousands of young, angry football fans... I am just speculating, but I think this is an eventuality.

Judge
22-03-2014, 13:19
If this sanctions situation continues, there may be calls to boycott the Football Cup!

Sanctions will probably continue if Russia moves into the eastern part of Ukraine...
Already someone said that FIFA should take the 2018WC away from Russia, but the FIFA boss said ,the 2018WC will go ahead....If teams want to boycott then it's their loss, Russia will have a better chance to win....We can expect the South America teams to turn up so Russia might still have trouble winning.
The American footy team won't be missed much..

Russian Lad
22-03-2014, 13:23
Sanctions will probably continue if Russia moves into the eastern part of Ukraine...

There are direct sanctions and there are indirect ones. Who will want to open a business or invest in the current Russia long-term now? S&P rating has been changed to negative.

vossy7
22-03-2014, 13:37
I can just see it now The Republic of Crimea Vs the Rebuplic of Ireland in 2018 World Cup......two little islands surrounded by water and controversy !

Russian Lad
22-03-2014, 13:40
I can just see it now The Republic of Crimea Vs the Rebuplic of Ireland in 2018 World Cup......two little islands surrounded by water and controversy !

Ireland, let's have a referendum there and join it to Russia.:)

Judge
22-03-2014, 13:41
:) Well, like I said the Crimea, it seems to me, was a trap all along. Of course the sanctions will continue. I just hope Internet and 100% of Visa/MasterCard transactions are not affected. Paypal came to Russia only recently, hope it stays here as well.
You don't understand why I mention the Cup. Say, the situation economically gets worse here (I don't see any reasons why it should be getting better within 3-4 years or even remaining the same), the Cup is cancelled all of a sudden. What do you get? Right, thousands of young, angry football fans... I am just speculating, but I think this is an eventuality.

The 1000's of football fans will probably be more pissed off with the west for screwing up Russia's chance of hosting the WC.
It won't be the end of the world if Russia doesn't host the WC, people have more important things on their mind...

People said the same about the Sochi games, all went well,they were the best winter games ever.

I disagree with your trap theory, thinking about it some more now...It looks like Putin like always played his hand well,nobody expected him to take Crimea this fast,TBH I bet they never even thought he would have the guts to do what he did..This happened so quick, heads are still spinning in the corridors of Vauxhall Cross and Langley.
From what I read about the sanctions, they are saying if Russia escalates the situation then more sanctions will be put in place...So, are they saying if all stays the same they won't be anymore sanctions?

Nobbynumbnuts
22-03-2014, 13:41
There are direct sanctions and there are indirect ones. Who will want to open a business or invest in the current Russia long-term now? S&P rating has been changed to negative.

There will be a price to pay, it will remain to be seen how severe it will be be...

Russian Lad
22-03-2014, 13:45
The 1000's of football fans will probably be more pissed off with the west for screwing up Russia's chance of hosting the WC.

See, it depends on how much food they have left in their fridges by this time and how much BS they are fed on federal channels. The situation in 2018 may be way different from what we have now. Cancel it now, sure, they will be angry with the West. Their fridges are full of nice food, they have new iphones and believe this will continue.:) They are up for a surprise, long term... Attitudes change, Judge.

vossy7
22-03-2014, 13:48
Ireland, let's have a referendum there and join it to Russia.:)

Давай...........:agree:

Judge
22-03-2014, 13:58
There are direct sanctions and there are indirect ones. Who will want to open a business or invest in the current Russia long-term now? S&P rating has been changed to negative.

Let the situation die down a little and investors will be back.
S&P , Fitch and others can downgrade all they want...

Judge
22-03-2014, 14:09
Ireland, let's have a referendum there and join it to Russia.:)

Scotland first and then Wales.....there's even talk of Yorkshire wanting to join Scotland..... Russian politicians should be on the streets encouraging this separations with cookies and sweet deals of cheap gas and oil for when the north sea runs dry..
Russians have a fondness for scottish whisky,some rich Russians should buy up a few distilleries....You know, start to work their way in and get to know the locals..

TolkoRaz
22-03-2014, 14:11
I disagree with your trap theory, thinking about it some more now...It looks like Putin like always played his hand well,nobody expected him to take Crimea this fast,TBH I bet they never even thought he would have the guts to do what he did..This happened so quick, heads are still spinning in the corridors of Vauxhall Cross and Langley.


When were you last in VX or Langley? ;)

Judge
22-03-2014, 14:14
When were you last in VX or Langley? ;)

Me? last year went on an excursion...:soccer:

Russian Lad
22-03-2014, 14:18
S&P , Fitch and others can downgrade all they want...

Well, those are internationally recognized firms that are not taken lightly by serious players.

Judge
22-03-2014, 14:22
Gazprom don't waste much time..


Gazprom has requested permission from the Crimean authorities to develop oil and gas fields, Crimea's first Deputy Prime Minister Rustam Temirgaliev said Tuesday.

http://rt.com/business/crimea-gazprom-exploration-request-598/

Nobbynumbnuts
22-03-2014, 14:29
.....S&P , Fitch and others can downgrade all they want...

If they downgrade the cost of financing debt rises...Just ask Greece, Italy and Spain et al. It's potentially very serious.

Russian Lad
22-03-2014, 14:32
Gazprom don't waste much time..

Gazprom has requested permission from the Crimean authorities to develop oil and gas fields, Crimea's first Deputy Prime Minister Rustam Temirgaliev said Tuesday.
http://rt.com/business/crimea-gazpro...n-request-598/

Bank Rossiya - around 170 thousand individuals. Guess how many of them are abroad now, unable to pay for their dinner and frantically calling their relatives? The situation is way more serious than most of you realize now. I don't even want to think about what may ensue if they do the same to Vtb or Alfa. Or Sber. It is going to hit hard, Judge. I do hope gradually. But it seems to be inevitable. Crimea river.:)

Judge
22-03-2014, 14:42
If they downgrade the cost of financing debt rises...Just ask Greece, Italy and Spain et al. It's potentially very serious.

You mention 3 broke countries that have no money ,unlike Russia that's sitting on about $500bn

Judge
22-03-2014, 14:58
Bank Rossiya - around 170 thousand individuals. Guess how many of them are abroad now, unable to pay for their dinner and frantically calling their relatives? The situation is way more serious than most of you realize now. I don't even want to think about what may ensue if they do the same to Vtb or Alfa. Or Sber. It is going to hit hard, Judge. I do hope gradually. But it seems to be inevitable. Crimea river.:)


If they go after them banks then they can make life difficult for many Russians..... Goes to show doesn't it how powerful the money men really are.

Nobbynumbnuts
22-03-2014, 15:02
You mention 3 broke countries that have no money ,unlike Russia that's sitting on about $500bn

Judge, it's not quite that simple. It's all about confidence.
If the ruble starts falling then Russian government and Russian companies need to find more rubles to convert to dollars/euros to finance debt. Russian government then starts spending that 500 bn defending the ruble. What might look like a stable situation on the outside can quickly turn ugly. Russian economy and the ruble are shaky.
How does anyone know another situation/crisis/drama will not unfold tomorrow or in a few months to compound the problem. Oil price falling? More sanctions? Financial crisis in another part of the world with knock on effect?

Judge
22-03-2014, 15:27
Judge, it's not quite that simple. It's all about confidence.
If the ruble starts falling then Russian government and Russian companies need to find more rubles to convert to dollars/euros to finance debt. Russian government then starts spending that 500 bn defending the ruble. What might look like a stable situation on the outside can quickly turn ugly. Russian economy and the ruble are shaky.
How does anyone know another situation/crisis/drama will not unfold tomorrow or in a few months to compound the problem. Oil price falling? More sanctions? Financial crisis in another part of the world with knock on effect?


Sure, it could turn ugly, that's why it shouldn't carry on for too long..

The Russian government doesn't owe that much,but Russian companies have external debt ,about $600bn.It would be in everyones interest for Russia to be able to pay its debt... I would guess that many of these Russian companies are also heavily controlled by the state.

robertmf
22-03-2014, 15:56
If they go after them banks then they can make life difficult for many Russians..... Goes to show doesn't it how powerful the money men really are.

Yesterday Moscow Times ran an article about how-to get $money$ out of Russia and into *somewhere/anywhere* else - no matter sanctions, etc.

MT article on how to get your $money$ out of Dodge City (http://www.expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?p=1291956#post1291956)

Wyatt Earp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyatt_Earp#Dodge_City_War) in Dodge City


:1306:

Nobbynumbnuts
22-03-2014, 16:03
Sure, it could turn ugly, that's why it shouldn't carry on for too long..

The Russian government doesn't owe that much,but Russian companies have external debt ,about $600bn.It would be in everyones interest for Russia to be able to pay its debt... I would guess that many of these Russian companies are also heavily controlled by the state.


How is the Russian government going to ensure it doesn't 'carry on for too long'?
If Russian companies are controlled/partly controlled by the state that means part the 500bn you were talking about is already spoken for as guarantees.

If any Russian companies start to find it difficult to meet their debt obligations that puts pressure on Russian banks, which in turn puts pressure on the government to back them to some degree. Again, that means some of that 500bn is again already spoken for.

I'm not saying a crisis is imminent but a downgrading is no laughing matter. What happens if they get downgraded again? It can become a spiral.
If the Russian economy suffers any of the above or the economy slips further (already downgraded to 1% P.A) due to the annexing of Crimea that would be a ridiculously high price to pay for some chest thumping and flag waving..

Judge
22-03-2014, 16:09
How is the Russian government going to ensure it doesn't 'carry on for too long'?
By not going into eastern Ukraine.



If Russian companies are controlled/partly controlled by the state that means part the 500bn you were talking about is already spoken for as guarantees.

If any Russian companies start to find it difficult to meet their debt obligations that puts pressure on Russian banks, which in turn puts pressure on the government to back them to some degree. Again, that means some of that 500bn is again already spoken for.

I'm not saying a crisis is imminent but a downgrading is no laughing matter. What happens if they get downgraded again? It can become a spiral.
If the Russian economy suffers any of the above or the economy slips further (already downgraded to 1% P.A) due to the annexing of Crimea that would be a ridiculously high price to pay for some chest thumping and flag waving..

There will only be a serious problem here if the price of oil drops sharply, like it did in 2008.Right now weaker ruble but oil and gas prices roughly the same ,so strong $ which means more for the state budget......But you know what nobby, like back in 2008/9 life still went on and people got on with their lives.

The west won't put sanctions on Russia like they did to Iran because it's not in their best interest.

Nobbynumbnuts
22-03-2014, 16:16
By not going into eastern Ukraine.




There will only be a serious problem here if the price of oil drops sharply, like it did in 2008.Right now weaker ruble but oil and gas prices roughly the same ,so strong $ which means more for the state budget......

Escalating the situation into eastern Ukraine would be madness.
The oil price doesn't need to fall far to put pressure on the budget. You can now start to see why Russia is vulnerable...

Judge
22-03-2014, 16:21
Escalating the situation into eastern Ukraine would be madness.

I agree, no need to go further into Ukraine.



The oil price doesn't need to fall far to put pressure on the budget. You can now start to see why Russia is vulnerable...
Cheap oil and gas isn't good for everyone..To bring down the price other countries need to come into play, like some Middle East countries.

Vulnerable in which way, by blocking peoples credit cards and travel arrangments? We know low oil prices isn't good for Russia, but it's not good for others too.
So far the sanctions here have been laughed at here.I know more could be done to hurt Russia, this mianly needs to come from the EU,but the EU knows that it would hurt itself..

Nobbynumbnuts
22-03-2014, 16:39
I agree, no need to go further into Ukraine.



Cheap oil and gas isn't good for everyone..To bring down the price other countries need to come into play, like some Middle East countries.

Vulnerable in which way, by blocking peoples credit cards and travel arrangments? We know low oil prices isn't good for Russia, but it's not good for others too.
So far the sanctions here have been laughed at here.I know more could be done to hurt Russia, this mianly needs to come from the EU,but the EU knows that it would hurt itself..

The price is determined by supply AND demand.
Vulnerable to a lower oil price, ruble, further down gradings, exterior shocks, weaker economy etc etc.
Russians are laughing? That's because they're not well informed..

Alan65
22-03-2014, 16:43
If this sanctions situation continues, there may be calls to boycott the Football Cup!

There already are, however why call this shot too soon, lets at least wait until you have many of teh stadiums under construction, committed to contracts.....then hand it to Poland and Ukraine who held a very successful Euro 2012 :D

Alan65
22-03-2014, 16:48
I can just see it now The Republic of Crimea Vs the Rebuplic of Ireland in 2018 World Cup......two little islands surrounded by water and controversy !

Play off rounds, the quarter finals, the semis and the finals rotating between A, B, C and D sides....mind you the Irish side as always will be made up of English :D

Judge
22-03-2014, 16:49
The price is determined by supply AND demand.
Vulnerable to a lower oil price, ruble, further down gradings, exterior shocks, weaker economy etc etc.
Russians are laughing? That's because they're not well informed..

One of the men who was listed in the sanctions, said the list was made up by prankster... To your everyday Russian, these sanctions won't be felt.

If the situation keeps on then Russia could start getting paid in other currencis for it's oil and gas, and dump their $$ holdings...

Judge
22-03-2014, 16:50
There already are, however why call this shot too soon, lets at least wait until you have many of teh stadiums under construction, committed to contracts.....then hand it to Poland and Ukraine who held a very successful Euro 2012 :D

Now that's a cunning plan..:boxing: :jester:

Alan65
22-03-2014, 16:52
When were you last in VX or Langley? ;)

Vauxhall Cross...a well known gay cruising area :yuk:


Now that's a cunning plan..:boxing: :jester:

The problem is Judge, you are now starting to consider 2018 being taken away from Russia....however, forget what is going on now and go back to how Russia won the bid and what Russia promised....Russia will not even deliver a small part of it, lets start with transport......I am here for as long as you like.

Nobbynumbnuts
22-03-2014, 16:59
One of the men who was listed in the sanctions, said the list was made up by prankster... To your everyday Russian, these sanctions won't be felt.

If the situation keeps on then Russia could start getting paid in other currencis for it's oil and gas, and dump their $$ holdings...

The ruble has fallen, the stock market has fallen, Russia has been downgraded.
Judge, are you still reading the Beano? What currencies are they going to be paid in? OPEC has been down this route, didn't work.
I wish i had a pound for every time i heard that Russia or China were about to dump their dollars. A'int going to happen..

Judge
22-03-2014, 17:05
The problem is Judge, you are now starting to consider 2018 being taken away from Russia....however, forget what is going on now and go back to how Russia won the bid and what Russia promised....Russia will not even deliver a small part of it, lets start with transport......I am here for as long as you like.


Not at all, politics and sports don't mix:agree: Blatter said other day Russia will host WC.
I was just answering RL, he's got it in his head that if Russia doesn't hold the WC then 1000's of fans will riot and topple Putin..:rolleyes:


How Russia won the bid, the focus is really on how Qatar won, Russia beat England fair and square :ok: maybe you're a little bitter that Russia beat England..
Will Russia deliever,many people and maybe even you said the same for the Sochi games, all was built and on time,was the best winter games ever.
What about transport?
Alan ,you're like many others that would like to see Russia fall flat on her face, but sorry to disappoint you,isn't going to happen at this World Cup..

robertmf
22-03-2014, 17:12
The ruble has fallen, the stock market has fallen, Russia has been downgraded.

Judge, are you still reading the Beano?

:11629: You can always move to Australia (https://www.sciencenews.org/article/kangaroo-gut-microbes-make-eco-friendly-farts) :badclown:

Alan65
22-03-2014, 17:20
Escalating the situation into eastern Ukraine would be madness.
The oil price doesn't need to fall far to put pressure on the budget. You can now start to see why Russia is vulnerable...

What will put pressure on the budget is actually integrating Crimea into Russia, building a road rail bridge...$ bns, getting a electricity and water supply $ bns, setting up pensions $ bns, the whole changeover process will cost a lot more that it did to send in a few troops....in the meantime, people in Russian cities like Kazan, Nizny etc will simply see federal funds going to prop up an old Stalinist playground in the hope that it becomes a Russian St Tropez again.

Does this sound familiar...think Sochi, $ 50bn down the drain, companies that bankrolled Sochi going bust, I am sure many Oligarchs are lining up with their cheque books again.

Everyday as the practicalities come out ...it is funnier by the minute...Crimea will be a drain on Russia for the next 10 years, just as reunification of East Germany was for West Germany.....the difference, Russia is not exactly West Germany of 15 years ago with the tech that can tool up factories....maybe there are a few gas fields near the Crimea, Crimean's do not have the know how in O & G and if these fields are exploited, the money will disappear from the Crimea.

Never mind, just like Sochi....it was good whilst it lasted.

Judge
22-03-2014, 17:29
The ruble has fallen, the stock market has fallen, Russia has been downgraded.

We are going in circles here.....Russia's outlook was downgraded not a ratings cut, not yet anyways,so let's not get ahead of ourselves..
Market is down, big deal,99% of Russian people don't care about the market here....falling ruble, more $$ for state budget...It will be written somewhere how much the state budget benifited from a weak ruble.




What currencies are they going to be paid in? OPEC has been down this route, didn't work.
Yuan,Swiss franc,Yen, Euro , even Gold would be good.

I remember reading that the recent Russia-China oil deal worth $270bn won't be in US$, either euros or ruble..



I wish i had a pound for every time i heard that Russia or China were about to dump their dollars. A'int going to happen..

You know what they say, don't count your chickens..........

Alan65
22-03-2014, 17:32
Best we start a new thread about this...Hold on I'll move some posts..

Cheers :11157:

Russian Lad
22-03-2014, 17:36
99% of Russian people don't care about the market here...

Yes, because over 63% of Russians don't have any savings and basically live from hand to mouth. Even a slight disruption of the market now, and... We are sitting on the tip of a volcano.
http://mnenia.ru/rubric/finance/rossiyane-ne-sberegayut/

penka
22-03-2014, 17:37
What will put pressure on the budget is actually integrating Crimea into Russia, building a road rail bridge...$ bns, getting a electricity and water supply $ bns, setting up pensions $ bns, the whole changeover process will cost a lot more that it did to send in a few troops....in the meantime, people in Russian cities like Kazan, Nizny etc will simply see federal funds going to prop up an old Stalinist playground in the hope that it becomes a Russian St Tropez again.

Does this sound familiar...think Sochi, $ 50bn down the drain, companies that bankrolled Sochi going bust, I am sure many Oligarchs are lining up with their cheque books again.

Everyday as the practicalities come out ...it is funnier by the minute...Crimea will be a drain on Russia for the next 10 years, just as reunification of East Germany was for West Germany.....the difference, Russia is not exactly West Germany of 15 years ago with the tech that can tool up factories....maybe there are a few gas fields near the Crimea, Crimean's do not have the know how in O & G and if these fields are exploited, the money will disappear from the Crimea.

Never mind, just like Sochi....it was good whilst it lasted.

Alan, for a simple truck driver who doesn't live in the RF, the ceaseless expression of pure hatred of ALL things Russian is astonishing. You do that free of charge?;)

Alan65
22-03-2014, 17:38
Alan, for a simple truck driver who doesn't live in the RF, the ceaseless expression of pure hatred of ALL things Russian is astonishing. You do that free of charge?;)

I am on a commission :D

penka
22-03-2014, 17:42
I am on a commission :D

I can but hope, it's a damn good one, given your effort:D

Invest in some English lessons, would you?;)

Nobbynumbnuts
22-03-2014, 17:42
We are going in circles here.....Russia's outlook was downgraded not a ratings cut, not yet anyways,so let's not get ahead of ourselves..
Market is down, big deal,99% of Russian people don't care about the market here....falling ruble, more $$ for state budget...It will be written somewhere how much the state budget benifited from a weak ruble.



Yuan,Swiss franc,Yen, Euro , even Gold would be good.

I remember reading that the recent Russia-China oil deal worth $270bn won't be in US$, either euros or ruble..



You know what they say, don't count your chickens..........

The outlook for Russia's economy was downgraded to about 1% for this year.
Moodys and Fitch downgraded Russia's credit rating.

Oil is sold on the world market. That market is priced in dollars. Russia has contracts in dollars.

Wont be in Rubles that's for sure. Russia needs hard currency.
Remember, China holds trillions of dollars worth of dollar assets (US treasury bonds). Highly unlikely they will do anything to devalue them

Alan65
22-03-2014, 17:47
I can but hope, it's a damn good one, given your effort:D

Invest in some English lessons, would you?;)

Do you know any good teachers...i.e. not the one that taught you.

Judge
22-03-2014, 18:10
Alan, for a simple truck driver who doesn't live in the RF, the ceaseless expression of pure hatred of ALL things Russian is astonishing. You do that free of charge?;)

Haters gonna hate....... when it comes to the football, you gotta remember that Russia beat England in a very heated battle to host the WC2018...Maybe Alan's bitterness towards Russia is cos of this fact.

robertmf
22-03-2014, 18:22
Wont be in Rubles that's for sure. Russia needs hard currency.


Why isn't Russian ruble now considered a "hard" currency :question:

Back in the day it was an agriculture currency, like the Korean won, with a stipulated artificial exchange rate of 6 Руб to $1. Basically worthless outside the county and not really convertible.

Arthuro
22-03-2014, 18:33
Btw 100 yrs ago it was a "hard" currency, "harder" than francs and dollars

Judge
22-03-2014, 18:34
Yes, because over 63% of Russians don't have any savings and basically live from hand to mouth. Even a slight disruption of the market now, and... We are sitting on the tip of a volcano.
http://mnenia.ru/rubric/finance/rossiyane-ne-sberegayut/


That article is from Jan2013, maybe the situation is a little better now.If I read it right, the UK isn't far off Russia at 50%...

Nobbynumbnuts
22-03-2014, 18:50
That article is from Jan2013, maybe the situation is a little better now.If I read it right, the UK isn't far off Russia at 50%...

As i said earlier, it's about confidence. The markets believe the UK can service it's debts and why shouldn't they? The economy is diversified and improving...

Nobbynumbnuts
22-03-2014, 18:53
Btw 100 yrs ago it was a "hard" currency, "harder" than francs and dollars

In 2,000 BC the Egyptian washer was a hard currency too....:coffee:

Nobbynumbnuts
22-03-2014, 18:56
Why isn't Russian ruble now considered a "hard" currency :question:...........

When other countries and investors start treating it as a reserve currency maybe it will be.
Even Russians don't trust it and for good reason..

penka
22-03-2014, 20:04
Do you know any good teachers...i.e. not the one that taught you.

Ouch:D You're making ya mama proud:)


Haters gonna hate....... when it comes to the football, you gotta remember that Russia beat England in a very heated battle to host the WC2018...Maybe Alan's bitterness towards Russia is cos of this fact.

Wow... I thought, it was a shallow gene pool:D


As i said earlier, it's about confidence. The markets believe the UK can service it's debts and why shouldn't they? The economy is diversified and improving...

Is that why you are in Thailand?:)

Alan65
22-03-2014, 22:00
Is that why you are in Thailand?:)

Says the person that lives in Sweden...pot kettle black :D

penka
22-03-2014, 22:23
Says the person that lives in Sweden...pot kettle black :D

You think I should move back to London, гадюка семибатюшная?:D I doubt, burkha'd suit me:D

Russian Lad
22-03-2014, 22:29
What's wrong with Thailand?

Ivanbor
22-03-2014, 22:31
What will put pressure on the budget is actually integrating Crimea into Russia, building a road rail bridge...$ bns, getting a electricity and water supply $ bns, setting up pensions $ bns, the whole changeover process will cost a lot more that it did to send in a few troops....in the meantime, people in Russian cities like Kazan, Nizny etc will simply see federal funds going to prop up an old Stalinist playground in the hope that it becomes a Russian St Tropez again.

Does this sound familiar...think Sochi, $ 50bn down the drain, companies that bankrolled Sochi going bust, I am sure many Oligarchs are lining up with their cheque books again.

Everyday as the practicalities come out ...it is funnier by the minute...Crimea will be a drain on Russia for the next 10 years, just as reunification of East Germany was for West Germany.....the difference, Russia is not exactly West Germany of 15 years ago with the tech that can tool up factories....maybe there are a few gas fields near the Crimea, Crimean's do not have the know how in O & G and if these fields are exploited, the money will disappear from the Crimea.

Never mind, just like Sochi....it was good whilst it lasted.
Crimea has never been Russian St Tropez. But it will be. Now Putin will need to prove the whole world (AGAIN :D) that Russian president is not barbarian. You don't understand, we just CAN'T live without Crimea as well as we couldn't live without Skolkovo and Olimpiada.

penka
22-03-2014, 22:36
What's wrong with Thailand?

Er... maybe, the ladyboys don't turn me on?:D

Russian Lad
22-03-2014, 22:37
Crimea has never been Russian St Tropez. But it will be. Now Putin will need to prove the whole world (AGAIN ) that Russians are not barbarians. You don't understand, we just CAN'T live without Crimea as well as we couldn't live without Skolkovo and Olimpiada.

I was doing just fine without Skolkovo and Olimpiada. The Crimea - not sure I want to march in steppes and eat acorn soup over it.:) Let alone dissimilate into a nuclear dust. This situation is way more complex than it meets your eye. And it can affect your life directly way more than you can imagine now, girl. I realized it only two weeks ago when I began to examine the whole matter closely. The words sinister, maccabre, inhuman come to mind. Yes, it is that bad. And it is not only about the Crimea.


Er... maybe, the ladyboys don't turn me on?

It is just a tourist attraction, don't think it is a real problem.:)

Ivanbor
22-03-2014, 22:43
My best memory from the Crimea is the tiny shrimp served in newspaper cones which tasted and smelled heavenly.

TolkoRaz
22-03-2014, 22:48
My best memory from the Crimea is the tiny shrimp served in newspaper cones which tasted and smelled heavenly.

Am off to The Krim tomorrow to spend some hard earned Roubles! :)

penka
22-03-2014, 23:03
I was doing just fine without Skolkovo and Olimpiada. The Crimea - not sure I want to march in steppes and eat acorn soup over it.:) Let alone dissimilate into a nuclear dust. This situation is way more complex than it meets your eye. And it can affect your life directly way more than you can imagine now, girl. I realized it only two weeks ago when I began to examine the whole matter closely. The words sinister, maccabre, inhuman come to mind. Yes, it is that bad. And it is not only about the Crimea.



It is just a tourist attraction, don't think it is a real problem.:)

Please, remind me when are the presidential elections in the US?

No, they are not a problem. Thinking not to show your soles, is:D

vossy7
22-03-2014, 23:07
I can but hope, it's a damn good one, given your effort:D

Invest in some English lessons, would you?;)

Penka the бескультурник continues to make an ass of himself...........he really has no idea the poor trucker !

Judge
22-03-2014, 23:21
I realized it only two weeks ago when I began to examine the whole matter closely. The words sinister, maccabre, inhuman come to mind. Yes, it is that bad. And it is not only about the Crimea.

It's not that complicated...

It's 'The Great Game' part 5-6-7 or whatever it is nowadays.The powers that be have been doing this for years and will keep on doing it long after we have gone.
You make it sound like these great nations are clashing for the first time.

What did you realise two weeks ago? Really I'm curious, maybe you have heard or read something that I haven't.

Judge
22-03-2014, 23:28
Russian special forces have used armoured vehicles to storm an air force base in Crimea after Ukrainian troops refused to abandon their posts.

One Ukrainian soldier was reported to have been shot during the assault, launched after a deadline to hand over the compound to Russia expired at 12.30 GMT.

"They came through the walls in armoured personnel carriers, said Sky News Chief Correspondent Stuart Ramsay, at the Belbek base.

"There have been explosions, blast bombs, one Ukrainian soldier has been shot."

"We believe they are special forces," said Ramsay. "They are all balaclaved and have slightly different uniforms to regular Russian soldiers.

http://news.sky.com/story/1230212/russian-special-forces-storm-crimea-base

penka
22-03-2014, 23:36
It's not that complicated...

It's 'The Great Game' part 5-6-7 or whatever it is nowadays.The powers that be have been doing this for years and will keep on doing it long after we have gone.
You make it sound like these great nations are clashing for the first time.

What did you realise two weeks ago? Really I'm curious, maybe you have heard or read something that I haven't.

I'm under the impression, Lad believes the game has entered its final stage.

A good enemy is an asset under many circumstances. I wonder, when it becomes a liability?

Judge
23-03-2014, 00:24
I'm under the impression, Lad believes the game has entered its final stage.

A good enemy is an asset under many circumstances. I wonder, when it becomes a liability?

Maybe,if he's right then the future is looking bleak.
It shouldn't come to that,diplomacy will work soon and all will be back to normal,fingers crossed.

TolkoRaz
23-03-2014, 00:32
Maybe,if he's right then the future is looking bleak.
It shouldn't come to that,diplomacy will work soon and all will be back to normal,fingers crossed.

I think it depends on how emboldened VVP feels.

At the end of the day, he has made a fool out of the EU / US of A, shown them to be spineless and ineffective. Will he sit back with a huge grin on his face having won another significant number of voters and enjoy his latest success?

VVP could push more because he knows that NATO will not militarily oppose RF Forces. Trans-Dniestr is likely to be next. Belarus could call for help if there is a 'Slavic Spring' there etc.... the list of possible scenarios is a long one!

As for sanctions, he does not care because they will not significantly impact him or the RF, not in the longterm anyway!

Russian Lad
23-03-2014, 00:32
It's 'The Great Game' part 5-6-7 or whatever it is nowadays.The powers that be have been doing this for years and will keep on doing it long after we have gone.
You make it sound like these great nations are clashing for the first time.

What did you realise two weeks ago? Really I'm curious, maybe you have heard or read something that I haven't.

Ask Tolko why he is going there. I do hope he is not planning to visit Odessa or Donetsk or Kharkov next week... If not, yes, the diplomacy will have its way this time.
To tell you what you don't know, Judge? It would be too long to write it here. I am like you, reading stuff on Internet, analizing it. Anyway, I was seeing it coming and I see the next stage clearly. Well, I was thinking about 2018. But it depends now... Some people like precipitating the inevitable. So far all goes like I have been hoping all along.:)


As for sanctions, he does not care because they will not significantly impact him or the RF, not in the longterm anyway!

That's the reason you are not an economist but a silovik, Tolko. Big mistake. The Russian CB is basically an affiliate of the Federal Reserve, ruble is not a hard currency. And this is a crucial weakness. Visa and Maestro gone, you can tie it up to China or India, who are, again, tied to the US. Maybe a lame temporary solution (though a hopelessly risky one) but a big loss in the future. Even if the Russians will be willing to swallow the dust this process alone, among other things, accumulates in the interim. Will they be willing to eat acorn soup and march in the steppes for the cause, not that figuratively speaking? I am not so sure...

TolkoRaz
23-03-2014, 00:33
I'm under the impression, Lad believes the game has entered its final stage.


The Great Game has no final stage; it is an endless power-struggle which mutates depending on the prevailing and future GeoPol situation.

TolkoRaz
23-03-2014, 00:35
Ask Tolko why he is going there. I do hope he is not planning to visit Odessa or Donetsk or Kharkov next week... If not, yes, the diplomacy will have its way this time.
To tell you what you don't know, Judge? It would be too long to write it here. I am like you, reading stuff on Internet, analizing it. Anyway, I was seeing it coming and I see the next stage clearly. Well, I was thinking about 2018. But it depends now... Some people like precipitating the inevitable. So far all goes like I have been hoping all along.:)

I have told you before, its 2017! :brush:

The 100th Anniversary! ;)

penka
23-03-2014, 00:51
The Great Game has no final stage; it is an endless power-struggle which mutates depending on the prevailing and future GeoPol situation.

Games are constructed and played by people. People make mistakes. Then the game starts to play the players. Ever thought of that?:)

Nobbynumbnuts
23-03-2014, 00:54
.......Is that why you are in Thailand?:)

I'm in Thailand because the weather is better and life is cheaper..;)

robertmf
23-03-2014, 00:54
Games are constructed and played by people. People make mistakes. Then the game starts to play the players. Ever thought of that?:)

Yes. The Americans are playing the Russians, just like they did the Japanese (hint: How did the Japanese purchase of Rockefeller Center NYC work out for them, etc.)

Alan65
23-03-2014, 00:57
Penka the бескультурник continues to make an ass of himself...........he really has no idea the poor trucker !

Can you explain to an uncultured trucker why Denmark has as many forms of ham as France has cheese...simply going into a supermarket in Copenhagen is confusing....I just want some ham, not 50 different varieties.

Bit like France...I just want some cheese.

Russian Lad
23-03-2014, 00:57
I have told you before, its 2017!

The 100th Anniversary!


Well, it would be fine as well, but in the age of nukes these games are way more dangerous, guess you realize that.:) Also, I don't see how it may happen your way, since we don't even have proper allies. China may just be interested in Siberia and will just watch the show (billions dead if something goes really wrong?). Also agree with Penka. Penka, are you concerned NOW?:) Reading Tolko and stuff.:)

Alan65
23-03-2014, 01:01
Well, it would be fine as well, but in the age of nukes these games are way more dangerous, guess you realize that.:) Also, I don't see how it may happen your way, since we don't even have proper allies. China may just be interested in Siberia and will just watch the show. Also agree with Penka. Penka, are you concerned NOW?:) Reading Tolko and stuff.:)

All this may be fine but why do the Danes have about 50 different types of ham??

penka
23-03-2014, 01:11
Well, it would be fine as well, but in the age of nukes these games are way more dangerous, guess you realize that.:) Also, I don't see how it may happen your way, since we don't even have proper allies. China may just be interested in Siberia and will just watch the show (billions dead if something goes really wrong?). Also agree with Penka. Penka, are you concerned NOW?:) Reading Tolko and stuff.:)

You must have been reading Konstantin Sivkov and Tom Clancy, Lad:)

Of course, things can go wrong. But, you'll need a bunker for that scenario, in Thailand or not:)

Russian Lad
23-03-2014, 01:12
I reckon the time is ripe for ultimate bets.:) Make your choice.:)
Tolko's vision, 2017 (I don't mind this as long as I don't have to eat acorn soup and to march in the steppes):


“осƒда€с‚венн‹й гимн СоŽза Сове‚ски… Со†иалис‚и‡ески… Респƒблик - YouTube

My prediction, 2018 (or much earlier, it depends):

30.01.14 Ÿесня «“о€ела ˆина...» - YouTube

penka
23-03-2014, 01:12
Yes. The Americans are playing the Russians, just like they did the Japanese (hint: How did the Japanese purchase of Rockefeller Center NYC work out for them, etc.)


That's given.

Tell me better, who's playing the US President?:)


I reckon the time is ripe for ultimate bets.:) Make your choice.:)
Tolko's vision, 2017:

Государственный гимн Союза Советских Социалистических Республик - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emxM3RUbsAI)

My prediction, 2018:

30.01.14 Песня «Горела шина...» - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SsryK-jlL8)

Damn, I'm torn!:D You're entertaining, Tolko's mighty... feckfeckfeck

Take off the shirts and start to fight, whilst I will think through your scenarios!:D

robertmf
23-03-2014, 01:24
That's given.

Tell me better, who's playing the US President?:)

31 sociopaths who are bought & paid for by global military-industrial complex