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penka
03-01-2014, 08:04
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532716/The-rubbish-strewn-caravan-sites-blight-Sweden-temporary-Romanian-camps-spring-country-migration-restrictions-eased.html

TolkoRaz
03-01-2014, 10:30
Poor people!

Benedikt
03-01-2014, 17:35
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532716/The-rubbish-strewn-caravan-sites-blight-Sweden-temporary-Romanian-camps-spring-country-migration-restrictions-eased.html



just because they are -campers- does it mean they have to live in such a squalor? is it so hard to tidy up and not just throw any rubbish around. i think THIS might be one part why people get so annoyed about Roams or whoever else lives in such a mess. does being -poor- mean automatically you can live i n filth and dirt? don't the people have any pride to make at least their meager living habitat more hospitable, clean and comfortable. or do they feel fine in all that filth and dirt? and than make the community responsible for it?Gypsies ( i am NOT politically correct, and don't care) have resisted since 100's of years to settle down, so let them live in their dirt and wallow in mud and be happy about it. i just don't see why than the local communities or municipalities should clean up the mess after they are leaving.

Alan65
03-01-2014, 22:38
Poor people!

Nothing poor about them...we have had this from the Irish pikeys for years. ..they just go out thieving.

magic.mouse
03-01-2014, 23:25
Ah, the Daily Mail.

The last bastion of British <insert favourite word> -ism.

I'm surprised that they're not claiming that Romanians cause cancer.

penka
03-01-2014, 23:47
Ah, the Daily Mail.

The last bastion of British <insert favourite word> -ism.

I'm surprised that they're not claiming that Romanians cause cancer.

That info was also run in the largest and highly respectable Swedish newspaper, DN:
http://www.dn.se/sthlm/romerna-tvingas-flytta-pa-nytt/

Or you are suggesting DM staged the photos?

Alan65
03-01-2014, 23:59
That info was also run in the largest and highly respectable Swedish newspaper, DN:
http://www.dn.se/sthlm/romerna-tvingas-flytta-pa-nytt/

Or you are suggesting DM staged the photos?

Romerna tvingas

Does that translate to Romanian thieves....my google translate is broken.

penka
04-01-2014, 00:19
Romerna tvingas

Does that translate to Romanian thieves....my google translate is broken.

Romerna tvingas = The gypsies are forced

Thief = Tjuv

Tigga = To beg

Alan65
04-01-2014, 00:39
Romerna tvingas = The gypsies are forced

Thief = Tjuv

Tigga = To beg

What confuses me about gypsies, travellers, pikeys etc is that they claim to be people that like to live on the road, are free spirited etc but when asked to move on they want to stay put.

Scroungers the lot of them, nothing to do with culture, just thieves!

VicY
05-01-2014, 19:22
just because they are -campers- does it mean they have to live in such a squalor? is it so hard to tidy up and not just throw any rubbish around. i think THIS might be one part why people get so annoyed about Roams or whoever else lives in such a mess. does being -poor- mean automatically you can live i n filth and dirt? don't the people have any pride to make at least their meager living habitat more hospitable, clean and comfortable. or do they feel fine in all that filth and dirt? and than make the community responsible for it?Gypsies ( i am NOT politically correct, and don't care) have resisted since 100's of years to settle down, so let them live in their dirt and wallow in mud and be happy about it. i just don't see why than the local communities or municipalities should clean up the mess after they are leaving.

That is the kind of "logic" that has always bugged the hell out of me with such people. The Chinese and Indians also love to use the "poverty argument". When you tell them about the dirt and general unpleasantries of their households and public places, they immediately play the poverty card. So, I ask them whatever does poverty of any sort have to do with living in a pigsty? If you have no wish to keep your house/streets clean it doesn't matter how rich you are, you'll still live like a pig :p There are plenty of poor countries out there that are quite clean, nevertheless.

Russian Lad
05-01-2014, 20:54
There are plenty of poor countries out there that are quite clean, nevertheless.

Such as??? Name me a few to prove your point. As the saying goes, the full will never understand the hungry... Only some repressive poor countries have clean streets I think, such as the North Korea, and even there there is a lot of squalor if you so much as deviate from the main streets, I am sure.:) As to keeping things clean, I think some poor struggle for their life basics so hard they don't have efforts left for anything else. Grinding poverty and cleanliness/tidiness usually aren't best friends, I doubt they ever meet even. 100 dollars is quite a common salary in India, for example - it is not just a hand to mouth living, even if you are lucky to land and to hold down such a "job", it is downright survival. Let's bear this in mind when jumping from our panties at judging them.

penka
05-01-2014, 21:04
Such as??? Name me a few to prove your point. As the saying goes, the full will never understand the hungry... Only some repressive poor countries have clean streets I think, such as the North Korea, and even there there is a lot of squalor if you so much as deviate from the main streets, I am sure.:) As to keeping things clean, I think some poor struggle for their life basics so hard they don't have efforts left for anything else. Grinding poverty and cleanliness/tidiness usually aren't best friends, I doubt they ever meet even.

That is bullshit, pardon my French.

Quite a few countries were on their knees after WWII, the populations starving. They TRIED their best not to turn their place of habitat into a garbage shit. Those people don't give a damn. Because they are sure they will be taken care of and somebody MUST something to them.

Russian Lad
05-01-2014, 21:10
Quite a few countries were on their knees after WWII, the populations starving. They TRIED their best not to turn their place of habitat into a garbage shit. Those people don't give a damn. Because they are sure they will be taken care of and somebody MUST something to them.

Fine, we can discuss the war if you wish... In the besieged Leningrad many cases of cannibalism were registered back in 1942, for example. Thousands of decaying corpses lay in the streets for many months, there was no one to clean them up. Not because the people hated the concept of tidiness.
It depends on the person to some extent of course, but utter lack of money doesn't help one keeping things tidy one bit.
Take Germany after the war - yes, it was in ruins, but humanitarian aid of all sorts was coming from the US, the Soviet Union and many other countries. Free of charge food, clothes, construction materials, you name it. No one starved for long in the post-war Germany - at a certain point they were showered with free aid from the US delivered by planes, because the US fought hard for the dominance in this region, including with the piles and piles of various supplies that were literally falling on the Germans from the sky...

penka
05-01-2014, 22:54
Fine, we can discuss the war if you wish... In the besieged Leningrad many cases of cannibalism were registered back in 1942, for example. Thousands of decaying corpses lay in the streets for many months, there was no one to clean them up. Not because the people hated the concept of tidiness.
It depends on the person to some extent of course, but utter lack of money doesn't help one keeping things tidy one bit.
Take Germany after the war - yes, it was in ruins, but humanitarian aid of all sorts was coming from the US, the Soviet Union and many other countries. Free of charge food, clothes, construction materials, you name it. No one starved for long in the post-war Germany - at a certain point they were showered with free aid from the US delivered by planes, because the US fought hard for the dominance in this region, including with the piles and piles of various supplies that were literally falling on the Germans from the sky...

- I know all about Leningrad. Thank you. People tried to survive and turned cannibals on occasion, whilst Zhdanov was feasting. There was never such shit in Leningrad.
- Germany? But of course. Children had to prostitute themselves for food after the treaty was signed (WWI). It was a misery beyond measure. They did not expect help. They did not shit down the place. Why? They struggled to keep the respect for themselves. No Marines coming. No nothing. Belorussian villages were in ruins. And? People struggled to behave with dignity. Cut on ya nonsense, man. I'm really tired of paying taxes for all suffering people who bother not to throw their shit into a dust bin. Really.:groan:

Russian Lad
05-01-2014, 23:42
Why? They struggled to keep the respect for themselves. No Marines coming. No nothing. Belorussian villages were in ruins. And? People struggled to behave with dignity. Cut on ya nonsense, man.

I am still not sure what you are talking about. Whenever I meet a vagabond in the street, he/she in most cases is not clean/tidy. Dirt-poor people with a place to live in tend to be on the sloppy side as well (the metro, when it is crammed, is usually saturated with the unmistaken stench - that's how poverty smells like), dignity and cleanliness in dire poverty exist only in some books and in your imagination, and ok, there may be some rare exceptions in the real life - it is almost like searching for virgins among whores and for snow in Florida. Or you are opposed to a speficic nation(ality)?


Cut on ya nonsense, man. I'm really tired of paying taxes for all suffering people who bother not to throw their shit into a dust bin. Really.

It is your choice - to pay taxes, just like to work for a certain company/organization under certain conditions. Find ways not to pay them.:)

robertmf
05-01-2014, 23:51
I think a distinction needs to be made between people who are slovenly due to laziness|customs and people who are homeless & dirty because of mental illness, or perhaps military vets

penka
06-01-2014, 00:00
I am still not sure what you are talking about. Whenever I meet a vagabond in the street, he/she in most cases is not clean/tidy. Dirt-poor people with a place to live in tend to be on the sloppy side as well (the metro, when it is crammed, is usually saturated with the unmistaken stench - that's how poverty smells like), dignity and cleanliness in dire poverty exist only in some books and in your imagination, and ok, there may be some rare exceptions in the real life - it is almost like searching for virgins among whores and for snow in Florida. Or you are opposed to a speficic nation(ality)?



It is your choice - to pay taxes, just like to work for a certain company/organization under certain conditions. Find ways not to pay them.:)

I ono people living on the streets. i helped some. And? They did not make a mess after leaving their sleeping place. They accepted the food and money and medical care. They behaved with grace.

Shit behaviour got no nationality, Lad.

Re the taxes. The state must be able to function. Therefore we pay taxes, even if we are unhappy with the gov. Democracy exists so we can say what we think. `When and if all that goes down the drain, the state ceases to exist.

If you expect my sympathy for the people who buy the drugs on the street and refuse help, who keep on whining on the hardships of life and keep on blaming everything on everybody else - NO F@CKING WAY.

Russian Lad
06-01-2014, 00:29
If you expect my sympathy for the people who buy the drugs on the street and refuse help, who keep on whining on the hardships of life and keep on blaming everything on everybody else - NO F@CKING WAY.

There are many factors that make people downright poor and living in squalor. Sometimes it is their fault, sometimes not...


Re the taxes. The state must be able to function. Therefore we pay taxes, even if we are unhappy with the gov. Democracy exists so we can say what we think. `When and if all that goes down the drain, the state ceases to exist.

Your brain is seriously damaged if you believe the state cannot function without imposing taxes on the personal income of its citizens.:) Quite the opposite is true, it only depends on the state structure. Maybe you want real-life examples? Ok, read this:


Saudi Arabia residents are not subject to income tax. Only nonresidents pay personal income tax in Saudi Arabia, which is the same as companies (Currently 20%).

Saudi individuals or nationals of GCC states who conduct business in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in commercial goods are subject to an Islamic Tax called 'Zakat'.

Zakat is an Islamic direct tax on property and income. Zakat is levied at a flat rate of 2.5%. See 'Zakat' (Islamic Tax) section below, after 'Saudi Arabia Corporate Tax' section.

Only business income earned by individuals is taxable. There is no tax on employment income. Business and professional income is taxed in the same way and under the same rules as corporate profits. Individuals not carrying on a business or professional activity are not taxed on interest and dividend income.

Individuals carrying on a business or professional activity are taxed at the same rate (i.e. 20%) and under the same rules as corporate entities. Income tax can be paid by instalments throughout the tax fiscal year. Income tax is payable within 120 days of fiscal year end.

Note: "GCC" stands for Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf. The member states are Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman and the United Arab Emirates.

TolkoRaz
06-01-2014, 00:58
Citizens of The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia do not work, they only pretend to work and get paid for doing nothing! ;)

VicY
06-01-2014, 04:56
Such as??? Name me a few to prove your point. As the saying goes, the full will never understand the hungry... Only some repressive poor countries have clean streets I think, such as the North Korea, and even there there is a lot of squalor if you so much as deviate from the main streets, I am sure.:) As to keeping things clean, I think some poor struggle for their life basics so hard they don't have efforts left for anything else. Grinding poverty and cleanliness/tidiness usually aren't best friends, I doubt they ever meet even. 100 dollars is quite a common salary in India, for example - it is not just a hand to mouth living, even if you are lucky to land and to hold down such a "job", it is downright survival. Let's bear this in mind when jumping from our panties at judging them.

Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, to name a few.

And let's see you visit India first before you judge others judging them ;)
I'm convinced that low salaries have nothing to do with throwing rubbish all around. It's NOT hard to put it the bin. It's NOT hard to wipe your floor or street.
Finally, as I also mentioned, the rich in the above-mentioned countries (India and China) act the same as the poor. Simply because they don't give a damn...It's not in their system.

Russian Lad
06-01-2014, 05:15
Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, to name a few.

And let's see you visit India first before you judge others judging them
I'm convinced that low salaries have nothing to do with throwing rubbish all around. It's NOT hard to put it the bin. It's NOT hard to wipe your floor or street.
Finally, as I also mentioned, the rich in the above-mentioned countries (India and China) act the same as the poor. Simply because they don't give a damn...It's not in their system.

So, basically you are a racist, since you seem to be blaming the poor only of certain countries/nationalities for being sloppy and untidy?:) Have you joined the respective party yet? I know India is quite dirty in quite many areas even without visiting it, but I am far from laying the brunt of the blame on the most poor and disadvantaged layers of their population, or on the population as such irrespective of the income size - see, it would be akin to signing the "I Am A Stupid And Arrogant, Racist Arsehole" affidavit for me personally.:)
Thailand is the only country I know a lot about by now, so I can comment on it, since it has been mentioned - the other ones are quite close I guess. First of all, yes, the salaries are low, but are not as low as in India, it seems, the prices for many things are dirt cheap compared to Europe or even Russia. Secondly, you should read up more on their utilities system - the discharges from toilets, for example, just as impurities from enterprises, are in many cases untreated or are treated only mechanically, and are drained afterwards directly to the water, to the bay in Pattaya, for instance - one of the reasons (in fact, the only reason I guess) you will not find many fully functional and clean beaches there - how tidy is that?:)
And this short video was also made in Thailand:
yourhappydate pattaya dirty - YouTube

TolkoRaz
06-01-2014, 10:29
I'm convinced that low salaries have nothing to do with throwing rubbish all around. It's NOT hard to put it the bin. It's NOT hard to wipe your floor or street.
.

That is assuming that the poor people can afford to buy a bin! ;)

Alan65
06-01-2014, 11:07
Citizens of The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia do not work, they only pretend to work and get paid for doing nothing! ;)

Sounds familiar :D

VicY
06-01-2014, 18:22
That is assuming that the poor people can afford to buy a bin! ;)

No, the bins are - sometimes! - in the streets :) You simply shouldn't throw rubbish ALL AROUND it instead of actually INTO it ;)

VicY
06-01-2014, 18:38
So, basically you are a racist, since you seem to be blaming the poor only of certain countries/nationalities for being sloppy and untidy?:) Have you joined the respective party yet? I know India is quite dirty in quite many areas even without visiting it, but I am far from laying the brunt of the blame on the most poor and disadvantaged layers of their population, or on the population as such irrespective of the income size - see, it would be akin to signing the "I Am A Stupid And Arrogant, Racist Arsehole" affidavit for me personally.:)
Thailand is the only country I know a lot about by now, so I can comment on it, since it has been mentioned - the other ones are quite close I guess. First of all, yes, the salaries are low, but are not as low as in India, it seems, the prices for many things are dirt cheap compared to Europe or even Russia. Secondly, you should read up more on their utilities system - the discharges from toilets, for example, just as impurities from enterprises, are in many cases untreated or are treated only mechanically, and are drained afterwards directly to the water, to the bay in Pattaya, for instance - one of the reasons (in fact, the only reason I guess) you will not find many fully functional and clean beaches there - how tidy is that?:)
And this short video was also made in Thailand:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

For god's sake, don't play that "racist" card on me, mate. I am having none of this nonsense.

There is nothing whatsoever racist in my statements. I don't care who lives in those countries but if they are dirty, then they are dirty, fullstop.

As I said, you have no idea what you're talking about. Of course, Thailand is not Singapore or Switzerland when it comes to cleanliness, but in comparison with India and China's industrial areas and small towns, it is a clean heaven! Your video is nothing: it's showing a rubbish dump somewhere in a backyard...Well, it's not impossible to find such backyards even in some first-world countries. The point is that when you go to the streets, into restaurants, hotels, etc, they will be clean. Visibly clean. That's not the case with India, for example.

Please do visit all of the above-mentioned countries first, before you engage in any such argument.

Russian Lad
06-01-2014, 19:41
For god's sake, don't play that "racist" card on me, mate. I am having none of this nonsense.

There is nothing whatsoever racist in my statements. I don't care who lives in those countries but if they are dirty, then they are dirty, fullstop.

Well, the way I understand you, you are saying: "The Indians, on the whole, are a sloppy and untidy nation prone to uncleanliness, but the Thai, the Vietnamese and similar are very tidy in comparison." Am I reading you right? If so, it is an extremely racist statement. And I don't need to go there to notice that.
One of the _real_ reasons behind the possible differences in this aspect can be the sheer difference in the population numbers - take a look at the map and then at the population stats. I am under the impression that overall people in India are way more poor than the Thais, combine this with how many of them live there - and here you go. At least this seems to be a part of the problem.
Your beloved Chinese are polluting the environment like there is no tomorrow, by the way, and sometimes I don't like how some of them smell, but it would be racist of me to claim they don't like cleanliness - there are clearly other issues at hand.

VicY
06-01-2014, 20:10
Well, the way I understand you, you are saying: "The Indians, on the whole, are a sloppy and untidy nation prone to uncleanliness, but the Thai, the Vietnamese and similar are very tidy in comparison." Am I reading you right? If so, it is an extremely racist statement. And I don't need to go there to notice that.
One of the _real_ reasons behind the possible differences in this aspect can be the sheer difference in the population numbers - take a look at the map and then at the population stats. I am under the impression that overall people in India are way more poor than the Thais, combine this with how many of them live there - and here you go. At least this seems to be a part of the problem.
Your beloved Chinese are polluting the environment like there is no tomorrow, by the way, and sometimes I don't like how some of them smell, but it would be racist of me to claim they don't like cleanliness - there are clearly other issues at hand.

Another LOL. Of course, there is NOTHING racist in what I say.
It'd also not be racist if you said whatever you wanted about the Chinese: this is your perception and I couldn't care less about it.
They aren't "my beloved Chinese", by the way, I hate everyone equally :p
And where did I say that they were super-clean?!

Yes, you heard me right: generally - GENERALLY - Indians aren't very clean people. There are exceptions everywhere, of course, but GENERALLY they don't care about the simple things like cleaning rubbish after themselves. I am not at all a neat freak, but I wouldn't visit there again if only because I have no wish to wallow in heaps of filth and dirt.
I'll repeat: go and check it out for yourself before passing judgement on others for saying the obvious.

Russian Lad
06-01-2014, 21:20
They aren't "my beloved Chinese", by the way, I hate everyone equally

Don't you have a Chinese husband or something?


Another LOL. Of course, there is NOTHING racist in what I say.

There is.

TolkoRaz
06-01-2014, 21:25
VicY - Clearly whilst you have been away, you have rested well - you have come back fighting! :focus:

We missed you, and so did RusskiLad! :)

Nice to see you back with the 'family' :)

penka
06-01-2014, 21:40
Truly so, Vicks - you've been missed.

When shall I congratulate you with the New year? On the 31st?

mrzuzzo
10-01-2014, 03:38
Actually VicY is right.

Simply visiting some ethnic neighborhoods in far-away countries proves her point.

Chinatown in San Francisco (or any other city) seems significantly dirtier, more cluttered, and more of a mess than the neighborhoods around it. It's not because these people are poor or forced into these conditions, this is how they want to live. That is all.

Russian Lad
10-01-2014, 03:40
Chinatown

Wonder if she agrees the Chinese are a sloppy and untidy nation.:)

robertmf
10-01-2014, 03:51
Chinatown in San Francisco (or any other city) seems significantly dirtier, more cluttered, and more of a mess than the neighborhoods around it.

Chinese New Year is quite good in SF