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Bbllt28
19-10-2013, 14:19
Hi all, husbands company just. Finalised the offer .. The role is IT Production director with 300 direct reports in one of the Russian retail banks .
Now husband has been offered free housing 1 round trip home and for family 3 trips as we are unable to trek with him due to my job,and schools that kids are in as we didn't want to traumatised kids etc ....now they are offering 85k in GBP ..now roughly about 10k per month in euro ...and it' 2 year contract.
Husband really thinks it's inadequate as it's one of the top 5 banks in Russia and we believe even local guys on this role will befriend 12 to 15 k in euros .
So he is likely to refuse but again we'd like to ask the opinion of people on this forum.

Many thanks in advance for any clues ..

annasophia
19-10-2013, 15:51
So he is likely to refuse but again we'd like to ask the opinion of people on this forum.

Many thanks in advance for any clues ..

So I am a person on this forum and here is my opinion:

If your interest is profoundly money, then you don't need opinions, you only need a calculator, $2 anywhere on the planet. Do the math and make a decision.

If you are looking for adventure, a different quality of life and money toss your calculator out the window and restructure your expectations to something that cannot be equaltized in paychecks.

From the tone of your post I recommend that you stay home where it is safe, paid for, familiar, comforting, and recognizably normal. You will be happy there.

You don't want to leave. Money is never worth it. Forget the whole tempting money offer of Russia, it is not for you.

I say this with the utmost sincerity. Don't do it. You will regret the extra money every month when you are faced with a language you don't speak, a culture you can't grasp, a lifestyle that is foreign to you, food you've never seen before and can't decipher, no friends and no family-- and your initial unwillingness to make the leap just for a few extra bucks every month. Trust your instincts. Stay home. You'll be much happier.

Expatness is not for everyone. I don't think it's for you.

That is my opinion on your very negative question. Don't go.

Ibanez
19-10-2013, 15:58
Anna, reading the original post, seems the husband is coming on his own and commuting...not the whole family...which changes things.

annasophia
19-10-2013, 16:08
Yes Ibanez, rereading the original post for the fourth or fifth time I think you're right. The husband has the work offer and the family is not moving.

So in answer to sending a husband unaccompanied to Russia for a job I say:
Make sure that husband has a wedding ring that glows from 10 kilometers away and automatically fires bullets at any woman under 35.

Russia is no safe place for an unaccompanied husband.....:fudd:

Ibanez
19-10-2013, 16:11
Yes Ibanez, rereading the original post for the fourth or fifth time I think you're right. The husband has the work offer and the family is not moving.

So in answer to sending a husband unaccompanied to Russia for a job I say:
Make sure that husband has a wedding ring that glows from 10 kilometers away and automatically fires bullets at any woman under 35.

Russia is no safe place for an unaccompanied husband.....:fudd:

Well, I guess that puts paid to the husbands job offer...:fudd:

Matt24
19-10-2013, 16:20
Hi all, husbands company just. Finalised the offer .. The role is IT Production director with 300 direct reports in one of the Russian retail banks .
Now husband has been offered free housing 1 round trip home and for family 3 trips as we are unable to trek with him due to my job,and schools that kids are in as we didn't want to traumatised kids etc ....now they are offering 85k in GBP ..now roughly about 10k per month in euro ...and it' 2 year contract.
Husband really thinks it's inadequate as it's one of the top 5 banks in Russia and we believe even local guys on this role will befriend 12 to 15 k in euros .
So he is likely to refuse but again we'd like to ask the opinion of people on this forum.

Many thanks in advance for any clues ..
Granted I have no clue what an IT Production Director is, but an expat in a Top 5 bank should easily be expecting c. 25 - 35 GBP per month /10k jobs are for local hires - the market for expat junior managers is long gone - if yer man is junior but with very specific skills he should easily push for 75% more on a salary basis, ALSO CONSIDER banks generally operate on performance bonuses, for non revenue functions 25% of sals is standard, for revenuing function a 100/125% of basic salary is a good target.

Ibanez
19-10-2013, 16:23
Granted I have no clue what an IT Production Director is, but an expat in a Top 5 bank should easily be expecting c. 25 - 35 GBP per month /10k jobs are for local hires - the market for expat junior managers is long gone - if yer man is junior but with very specific skills he should easily push for 75% more on a salary basis, ALSO CONSIDER banks generally operate on performance bonuses, for non revenue functions 25% of sals is standard, for revenuing function a 100/125% of basic salary is a good target.

Matt, including or excluding housing and other benefits?

Matt24
19-10-2013, 17:21
Matt, including or excluding housing and other benefits?

I was thinking salary, you can normally add 40% on salary excluding bonus for benefits - but it depends on the rarity of the skill set and seniority of the employee and most importantly their revenue earning potential

tonytony
19-10-2013, 19:27
Hi all, husbands company just. Finalised the offer .. The role is IT Production director with 300 direct reports in one of the Russian retail banks .
Now husband has been offered free housing 1 round trip home and for family 3 trips as we are unable to trek with him due to my job,and schools that kids are in as we didn't want to traumatised kids etc ....now they are offering 85k in GBP ..now roughly about 10k per month in euro ...and it' 2 year contract.
Husband really thinks it's inadequate as it's one of the top 5 banks in Russia and we believe even local guys on this role will befriend 12 to 15 k in euros .
So he is likely to refuse but again we'd like to ask the opinion of people on this forum.

Many thanks in advance for any clues ..


Having read your post I've got a couple of thoughts about it.

First, don't forget that tax rates are a lot lower in Russia than in the UK. Assuming that he will be going on a HQS visa then he will be paying tax at a flat 13%.

So 85k GBP will give him a take home pay of 74k a year as there is no equivalent of NI for him to pay. In order to earn that in the UK his gross pay would need to be 122k per year. So 84k gross in Russia is effectively the same as 122k gross in the UK.


Secondly, fixed term contracts aren't very common in Russia - although I will admit I've never worked at the level of your hubbie so things may be different at such a high level.

Is it envisioned that this will be a permanent role or is it really just a fixed term two year contract? In other words, will your husband be working there permanently or is he just going as a ''contractor'' and then moving on after the contract is over?

If it really is just as a contractor then I would have expected more, that salary is probably more in line for a permanent role.

If you believe that the going rate is more like 12 to 15k euros then you need to make the case to the bank - how do you know this information, by the way?

But when you talk about ''local guys'', your husband will have to bring some very special skills indeed in order to be paid above the going rate.

Alan65
19-10-2013, 19:44
Hi all, husbands company just. Finalised the offer .. The role is IT Production director with 300 direct reports in one of the Russian retail banks .
Now husband has been offered free housing 1 round trip home and for family 3 trips as we are unable to trek with him due to my job,and schools that kids are in as we didn't want to traumatised kids etc ....now they are offering 85k in GBP ..now roughly about 10k per month in euro ...and it' 2 year contract.
Husband really thinks it's inadequate as it's one of the top 5 banks in Russia and we believe even local guys on this role will befriend 12 to 15 k in euros .
So he is likely to refuse but again we'd like to ask the opinion of people on this forum.

Many thanks in advance for any clues ..

Reading between the lines, they want someone on a 2 year contract, suck the knowledge out of him, get someone else trained up and then cut him loose.

Flights to Moscow cost nothing, what is the housing being offered.

Many years ago a boss of mine was asked to go for an interview somewhere, was told he could pick the ticket up at the airport, he arrived at the airport and was given an economy class ticket, he simply took the ticket and wrote on it...."stick you job up your ar$e".

Personally I think you are being offered economy class.

Alan65
19-10-2013, 19:48
Having read your post I've got a couple of thoughts about it.

First, don't forget that tax rates are a lot lower in Russia than in the UK. Assuming that he will be going on a HQS visa then he will be paying tax at a flat 13%.

So 85k GBP will give him a take home pay of 74k a year as there is no equivalent of NI for him to pay. In order to earn that in the UK his gross pay would need to be 122k per year. So 84k gross in Russia is effectively the same as 122k gross in the UK.


Secondly, fixed term contracts aren't very common in Russia - although I will admit I've never worked at the level of your hubbie so things may be different at such a high level.

Is it envisioned that this will be a permanent role or is it really just a fixed term two year contract? In other words, will your husband be working there permanently or is he just going as a ''contractor'' and then moving on after the contract is over?

If it really is just as a contractor then I would have expected more, that salary is probably more in line for a permanent role.

If you believe that the going rate is more like 12 to 15k euros then you need to make the case to the bank - how do you know this information, by the way?

But when you talk about ''local guys'', your husband will have to bring some very special skills indeed in order to be paid above the going rate.

A permanent role in the UK will also give an employers contribution to a pension....that can add up.

MashaSashina
19-10-2013, 20:52
I agree with annasophia here... Just do the math.
Why to compare with local guys and why an expat should be paid any better?
Btw, even in one of top 5 banks it's still an IT role, so I would take opinions about possible salaries of 35K GBP per month with a grain of salt.

tonytony
20-10-2013, 00:45
A permanent role in the UK will also give an employers contribution to a pension....that can add up.


Good point, I didn't think about that

Bbllt28
20-10-2013, 03:11
Dear all, apologies for the confusion with the figures what I meant was that he was offered 8.5 per month which we think is about 10K in euros net ( taxes deducted) , accommodation is free , one return ticket for him and 3 tickets for us me+ 2 daughters..
they provide him with the health insurance and making him to pay the 2.5 % of his salary into pension fund with them contributing about 10% ..which is similar to his current pension arrangements here in the UK.

we are in region of 5.5K at home here and if he spends ( roughly) 500 to 700 for food + at least few flights ( easyjet flies at around 400 etc.. there is only 2.2K to 2.3K difference between his role here and new one ,so e is really thinking that it's not really worth to go away from family for the sake of 2.3K max ..

on local salaries he has reached out to Hays and Michael Pages whom advised on local IT director salaries for the calibre of the Bank which is offering him the role ,so we 90% sure hat the local guys in Moscow are on 12 to 15 K in euros for this role .

tonytony
20-10-2013, 13:05
OK, sorry about that I thought you were talking gross figures rather than net.

Since you have done the correct thing and checked salary levels with a couple of different recruitment agencies, it may well be worthwhile going back to the bank and telling them this explicitly.

I would suggest that this would be a stronger argument rather than just asking for more money or just simply refusing the offer. At the end of the day the old saying is true, if you don't ask you don't get.

At the end of the day, it is only your family that can decide what level of extra money makes it worth it to go.

Bbllt28
23-10-2013, 01:13
Hello there all ,many thanks for your feedbacks and advise...husband has declined the offer for move to moscow as it really was drastically below market rate even for locals ,so we are staying put.

Good luck to everyone .
Rgds,

Droidage
23-10-2013, 09:31
Inadequate - yes

ezik
23-10-2013, 10:12
Probably a good decision from your side. But feel free to come around if any more opportunities for Moscow arise.

Now, as your husband is not taking the job, I am sure that many expats who are settled in Moscow already would be interested in this job.

If it possible for you to share some info or provide a link if the position is posted on any website? Many thanks!


Hello there all ,many thanks for your feedbacks and advise...husband has declined the offer for move to moscow as it really was drastically below market rate even for locals ,so we are staying put.

Good luck to everyone .
Rgds,