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Preston
21-12-2007, 23:55
As a British English teacher I’ve run into quite a few problems with students who seem to think that British English is the only “real” English. It became a problem for me when I started “team teaching” with a American chap who I work with. I would take the group on Tuesday nights and on Thursday he would then “correct” their English! What I find most troubling is when he told my cl****"the sad truth is that English is not the international language because of merry ol’ England." (well not for the last 100 years anyway!). So my question is simple: Should I correct students who are simply using the wrong English (British) ….after all according to him it’s thanks to the Yanks that I have a job at all! :rant:

Albertina
22-12-2007, 00:06
Geeze... I think none of you should teach :rant:

Russiana are intolerant enough, without you firing it up even more :ninja::snoring:

alterego
22-12-2007, 07:54
Well if you are team teaching then you should both be on the same page. So you should correct his corrections and you can be idiots together.
I point out the differences between the two and tell my students to consider their audience. I also sometimes point out that international English is different from both American and Brit speak.

Surfsup37
22-12-2007, 10:48
I am an American, and you should sit down and talk to him. Both American and British English are legitimate forms of English. You should both point out the differences. You can justify to him, by the fact that British investment is higher than American investment in Russia, and more Russians go to school in the UK, than in the US, therefore your students as just as likely if not more likely to speak to British rather than Americans.

P.S. - If it makes you feel any better, he/she is an idiot. :cool:

DCVik
22-12-2007, 12:30
As a British English teacher I’ve run into quite a few problems with students who seem to think that British English is the only “real” English. It became a problem for me when I started “team teaching” with a American chap who I work with. I would take the group on Tuesday nights and on Thursday he would then “correct” their English! What I find most troubling is when he told my cl****"the sad truth is that English is not the international language because of merry ol’ England." (well not for the last 100 years anyway!). So my question is simple: Should I correct students who are simply using the wrong English (British) ….after all according to him it’s thanks to the Yanks that I have a job at all! :rant:

It seems that you had a great idea but for some reason ending up teaching intolerance. You're both making it a personal rivalry and getting it out on your students (kids? - even worse!). You indeed should point out differences in English - it makes it interesting and raises their awareness about culture (origins of certain words/expressions or how they changed depending on Birtish/American). It's a great idea that you decided to team up and not keep your students in the "zone" of one particular language, but you need to take it further and do it for the benefit of your students and not whatever grudges/issues you might have with each other's language or teaching methodology. Different is not bad and you two of all people can show that to your students.

quincy
22-12-2007, 13:08
The best approach is to explain both versions are equally valid and point out some of the differences without confusing the students too much. Then there is Australian, South African, New Zealand, Jamaican (or Carribean) English. Even a section of Indians use a kind of pidgin English where English words are pronounced with a strong Indian (Hindu?) accent, with lots of local words thrown in. If they are used as a medium of communication are they any less valid?

Bels
22-12-2007, 20:02
As a British English teacher I’ve run into quite a few problems with students who seem to think that British English is the only “real” English. It became a problem for me when I started “team teaching” with a American chap who I work with. I would take the group on Tuesday nights and on Thursday he would then “correct” their English! What I find most troubling is when he told my cl****"the sad truth is that English is not the international language because of merry ol’ England." (well not for the last 100 years anyway!). So my question is simple: Should I correct students who are simply using the wrong English (British) ….after all according to him it’s thanks to the Yanks that I have a job at all! :rant:s

Which text do you use to teach your students? British English or American?

Bels
22-12-2007, 21:36
You should learn your students needs. Are they all going to America to study or live in America, then teach based on American text and inform of the difference of British and American English when appropriate. But if they intend to eventually take Cambridge English Exams for example, then it's best to be based on British English and explain the differences of American English when appropriate.

In the majority of cases those students will be used to be studying with British English course books, and the best ones explain the differences. Even Murphy's Grammar in Use has interesting explanations of the difference between British English and American Engish in grammar.

Students must learn not to mix the languages. Especially if going for Cambridge ESL Exams.

alterego
23-12-2007, 04:16
The problem with British texts that explain the difference between British and American English is that often they get the American part wrong. I've found many texts which claim that Americans don't use the words 'taxi' and 'trousers'. While 'trousers' is probably less common than 'pants' it is certainly in our vocabulary and 'taxi' is probably equally as common as 'cab'. I've yet to find one that tries to explain the differences between the use of 'got'.

IraM
23-12-2007, 12:29
You should learn your students needs. Are they all going to America to study or live in America, then teach based on American text and inform of the difference of British and American English when appropriate. But if they intend to eventually take Cambridge English Exams for example, then it's best to be based on British English and explain the differences of American English when appropriate.

In the majority of cases those students will be used to be studying with British English course books, and the best ones explain the differences. Even Murphy's Grammar in Use has interesting explanations of the difference between British English and American Engish in grammar.

Students must learn not to mix the languages. Especially if going for Cambridge ESL Exams.


For students of North American English I would choose Basic Grammar in Use and Grammar in Use Intermediate (both by Raymond Murphy with William R. Smalzer). And Vocabulary in Use (Basic, Intermediate and Upper-Intermediate) written with Ellen Shaw. Good examples and explanations.

Bels
23-12-2007, 18:15
For students of North American English I would choose Basic Grammar in Use and Grammar in Use Intermediate (both by Raymond Murphy with William R. Smalzer). And Vocabulary in Use (Basic, Intermediate and Upper-Intermediate) written with Ellen Shaw. Good examples and explanations.

Yes I'd go for that. I suggest Preston gives these books as a present to his American Teaching partner to educate him in British grammar. :)

IraM
26-12-2007, 16:11
I suggest Preston gives these books as a present to his American Teaching partner to educate him in British grammar.

Just to avoid some misunderstanding.

There are TWO IN USE variants one is based on British English and another based on American English. That's why I mentioned the authors -
e.g. English Grammar in Use by Raimond Murphy (for British English) and English Grammar in Use by Raimond Murphy with William R. Smalzer (for American English). As for Vocabulary in Use - for AmE the same authors as for BrE with an American consultant Ellen Show. You can see more about the books here:

Cambridge University Press English as a Second Language (http://www.cambridge.org/us/esl/) Cambridge books for AmE
Grammar in Use Series - Cambridge University Press (http://www.cambridge.org/us/esl/grammarinuse/index.htm) Grammar in Use for AmE
Cambridge University Press - Vocabulary in Use (http://www.cambridge.org/us/esl/cluster/viu_01.asp) Vocabulary in Use for AmE

Preston
27-12-2007, 09:14
Wow, The truth is, I was mostly on a rant after a long day. I want to thank you all for you suggestions it really helped. Best of all, my American colleague and I sat down together and discussed all the advise from your responses. (I should have pointed out that we teach adult lawyers “advocates”, so we also come from different judicial vocabulary & pronunciation . Admittedly he still insists on saying “Affi-David” instead of “Affidavit” & “Et-cetera” rather then “Ex-cetera” but I can live with that as long as he doesn’t make that cardinal error and say “pro-NOUN-ciation” (it’ s “pro-NUN-ciation” pls:clown:!) Thanks everyone!

smchilds
27-12-2007, 11:23
Wow, The truth is, I was mostly on a rant after a long day. I want to thank you all for you suggestions it really helped. Best of all, my American colleague and I sat down together and discussed all the advise from your responses. (I should have pointed out that we teach adult lawyers “advocates”, so we also come from different judicial vocabulary & pronunciation . Admittedly he still insists on saying “Affi-David” instead of “Affidavit” & “Et-cetera” rather then “Ex-cetera” but I can live with that as long as he doesn’t make that cardinal error and say “pro-NOUN-ciation” (it’ s “pro-NUN-ciation” pls:clown:!) Thanks everyone!


What is wrong with "et cetera" ??

Bels
27-12-2007, 11:34
Wow, The truth is, I was mostly on a rant after a long day. I want to thank you all for you suggestions it really helped. Best of all, my American colleague and I sat down together and discussed all the advise from your responses. (I should have pointed out that we teach adult lawyers “advocates”, so we also come from different judicial vocabulary & pronunciation . Admittedly he still insists on saying “Affi-David” instead of “Affidavit” & “Et-cetera” rather then “Ex-cetera” but I can live with that as long as he doesn’t make that cardinal error and say “pro-NOUN-ciation” (it’ s “pro-NUN-ciation” pls:clown:!) Thanks everyone!

Have you ever asked your legal students their needs for the English language. What will they be using in the future, but to be on the safe side it should being made aware of the differences of both languages.

Those little pronounciation problems are no big deal, however I'm these students are fully aware of the internationally recognised IPA phonetic system which I'm sure your advanced and even pre-intermediate students are already using when they refer to their dictionaries. So, how does the IPA system pronounce these words, as that's the way it will be. One up for you again :)

Preston
27-12-2007, 14:25
What is wrong with "et cetera" ??
Latin for "and" is "et". Latin for "the rest" is "cetera". (needless to say, prefix "ex" / "former" makes no sense!.....and I can't believe I've become such a word "freak" - I need a pint!

smchilds
27-12-2007, 20:57
Latin for "and" is "et". Latin for "the rest" is "cetera". (needless to say, prefix "ex" / "former" makes no sense!.....and I can't believe I've become such a word "freak" - I need a pint!

Thanks for the lesson but I knew that :P I asked because I thought you were saying the correct form is "ex cetera"...

"he still insists on saying "Et-cetera” rather then (sic) “Ex-cetera” but I can live with that"...

Bels
27-12-2007, 21:59
Thanks for the lesson but I knew that :P I asked because I thought you were saying the correct form is "ex cetera"...

"he still insists on saying "Et-cetera” rather then (sic) “Ex-cetera” but I can live with that"...

Very strange this American, such words as suffix and prefix etc Russians become familiar with such terms. He would eventually sound a fool even to the Russians.

Now discussing this with my linguist qualified and translator Russian wife, it's very important you two get yourselves sorted out in regards to dealing with advanced level students who are lawyers. It is quite possible that these people are interested in translating law from Britain and the USA. It's very important that whatever course books you are using that you continiously inform them of the differences between American and British English, they must never get it mixed up. In law text we are completely different.

LISTEN TO YOUR STUDENTS NEEDS.

xSnoofovich
27-12-2007, 22:44
and smchilds is still correct bels - read it again.

xSnoofovich
27-12-2007, 22:47
Very strange this American, such words as suffix and prefix etc Russians become familiar with such terms. He would eventually sound a fool even to the Russians.




i am curious - where is there a suffix or a prefix here? maybe i missed something.

Bels
27-12-2007, 23:06
Yes true I can't find it anymore. There was a mention of prefixes and a strange word probably intended to mean suffixes. However that's not the main issue. Neither has the other post pointing me wrong as for me stating the main issue issue on this issue.

xSnoofovich
27-12-2007, 23:10
;)

rusmeister
19-02-2008, 06:01
As an American, I say with shame that on the whole, British materials are far superior in methodology. There are reasons for that, but (they're too complex to fit into a short post)...