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Jas
11-10-2013, 23:19
Over the last 2 days I was experiencing lots of technical problems when posting cos of servers etc. Also, it wasn't just technical stuff, there was some minor artistic differences like what any writer or poster cud easily have with they're editors.
I very much appreciate all the tons of support what I got.
I love you all, really I do. This song is for us!

Nadia Ali "Rapture" (Avicii Remix) Official Music Video - YouTube

TolkoRaz
11-10-2013, 23:51
Welcome Back Jas :)

Welcome Back Nadia Ali :)

Jas
11-10-2013, 23:53
Welcome Back Jas :)

Welcome Back Nadia Ali :)

Happy Eid, Tolki. I was going to post eid greetings to everyone, but I think it's good if u do it Tolki, cos its a kind of tradition and u always do it.

TolkoRaz
11-10-2013, 23:54
BTW, I do not suppose Nadia has recently performed in Karachi, certainly not wearing that cat suit? ;)

And, is Nadia by any chance your twin sister? :inlove:

TolkoRaz
11-10-2013, 23:55
Happy Eid, Tolki. I was going to post eid greetings to everyone, but I think it's good if u do it Tolki, cos its a kind of tradition and u always do it.

Forgive me, I nearly missed Eid al Adha!

Jas
11-10-2013, 23:59
BTW, I do not suppose Nadia has recently performed in Karachi, certainly not wearing that cat suit? ;)

Tolki, do u know she was born in Libya? That reminds me and stuff, I think u shud not go there cos its very dangerous. Its all over the news that they just burned down the Swedish consulate today.

TolkoRaz
12-10-2013, 00:05
Jas, They attacked it with a car bomb. Anyway, it was in BANGhazi, not Tripoli! ;)

Since the US kidnapping of Nazih Abdul Hamed al Ruqai last week, there is now a very high risk of US citizens being kidnapped in retaliation.

Work is to be done, but as I am not a citizen of the US of A, I will be OK! ;)

Insha'Allah! ;)

Jas
12-10-2013, 00:10
Jas, They attacked it with a car bomb. Anyway, it was in BANGhazi, not Tripoli! ;)

Since the US kidnapping of Nazih AbdulHamed al Ruqai last week, there is now a very high risk of US citizens being kidnapped in retaliation.

Work is to be done, but as I am not a citizen of the US of A, I will be OK! ;)

Insha'Allah! ;)

I will definetly be thinking of u. Better to stay in Tripoli I think and not Benghazi side maybe.....

TolkoRaz
12-10-2013, 00:14
If I visit Benghazi. I fly in and out of there from Tripoli.

Road movement has to be kept to an absolute minimum. Its a Jihadist's hornets nest down there - there are roadblocks and training camps all over the place! And, of course, the Egyptian situation to the East has not made it any better.....

This Open Source warning from the Bureau of Diplomatic Security was posted yesterday:

Security Message for U.S. Citizens: Tripoli (Libya), Reminder of the Need for Caution and Awareness

Significant Events; Political Violence; Terrorism

Near East > Libya > Tripoli

10/9/2013

The U.S. Embassy in Libya reminds U.S. citizens of the need for caution and awareness of personal security following the October 5 detainment of a Libyan national by U.S. military authorities. The embassy is aware of public statements threatening the kidnapping of U.S. citizens in Libya, but has no specific information about these threats. The embassy plans to restrict movement of embassy personnel to essential travel only and will be closed in observance of American and Libyan holidays from October 13-17. The embassy will reopen for normal operations on Sunday, October 20. American Citizen Services will be offered during normal hours on October 9. Review your personal security plans; remain aware of your surroundings, including local events; and monitor local news stations for updates. Maintain a high level of vigilance, take appropriate steps to enhance your personal security and follow instructions of local authorities. We strongly recommend that U.S. citizens traveling to or residing in Libya enroll in the Department of State's Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP). STEP enrollment gives you the latest security updates, and makes it easier for the U.S. embassy or nearest U.S. consulate to contact you in an emergency. If you don't have Internet access, enroll directly with the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate.

Jack17
12-10-2013, 00:39
but as I am not a citizen of the US of A, I will be OK! ;)

Since when did al Qaeda start distinguishing between Brits and Yanks? With the attack on the Russian Embassy in Tripoli, doesn't look like there's much protection in being Russian either. Don't think al Assad's too popular with Sunni Jihadis. Anyway, good luck and please keep posting even if you come under fire.

Good to have you back Jas.

TolkoRaz
12-10-2013, 00:40
The Russians have relocated to Tunisia! Somehow, not much of a safer place! ;)

Russian Lad
12-10-2013, 00:55
Since when did al Qaeda start distinguishing between Brits and Yanks? With the attack on the Russian Embassy in Tripoli, doesn't look like there's much protection in being Russian either.

Well, Jack, Arabs get mad when you kill them. Strange people...

Jack17
12-10-2013, 01:08
I got that RL. But just think of your own posts; why, after Hiroshima and Nagasaki would a group wage war on America? They either are a) very brave, b) very foolish, or c) (most likely) both.

Jas
12-10-2013, 10:58
I got that RL. But just think of your own posts; why, after Hiroshima and Nagasaki would a group wage war on America? They either are a) very brave, b) very foolish, or c) (most likely) both.

@rl and jack17,

Not all Arabs (like Paksistanis) want to wage war on the US. What u got are local stuff like Kashmir and Palestine that all really not the US's doing at all, but which angers people.
But that's just a excuse cos the real problem is the growth of fascism in Islamic societies that above all, like what fascists in Europe was doing after WW1, want to use a sense of humiliation. This humiliation is only partly real, like humiliation cos of Kashmir or Palestine, the rest is just part of a idealojical agenda that is Islamist hard right. This is why some mental case in America wanting to burn the Holy Qu'ran is so dangerous.
So what u get are the mullahs telling that Muslims shud hate America cos of no democracy in our countries (like they got any interest in it!), that America colonized us (it didnt and was itself a colony), that it steals our resources (er, they buy it), that they hate us cos we are Muslims (and let us practice freely in the US), that they invented Al Qaeda (and the mullahs got a get out clause when AQ goes genocidal), that they are killing Muslims in our lands (er, more Muslims got killed by the Jihadis thany anything else), that America stole Muslim land, native American lands, Islamic Spain and dropped bombs on Japan (like there was no Islamic Empire also which the mullahs wont to revive), that America wants to destroy Muslims with education (which alone can help our countries) and that America want to destroy Muslim countries- which are getting actually destroyed by the hate, sectarianism and terror that the mullahs are supporting.

So RL, this smarmy attitude what u got is just part of the hypocrisy of the mullahs cos what is getting told with this kind of logic can get used against any state (like Russia or Sweden), any organization (like the UN), or any person also..... like Malala who they shot in the head just cos she wanted to go to school.

Jas
12-10-2013, 11:21
C, how can I know all this stuff? Er, cos I done IGCSE history (I got 9 IGCSE's), and I done 3 A' levels also, I got friends from all over, I went to Uni and met with more ideas, I was always open minded cos of me background and following me mum's sect.
What does this tell u? It tells us that once u get education in soceity, fascism and intolerance must decline. That's why Tehreek are attacking girls who want to go to school.
But education isnt all of it cos u can go to the UK and c very educated people what are Islamists and in Pakistan, its middle class people also can be. How to explain it? C, what u got is a social revolution where in Pakistan, merchants and business personages want power but they dunno how to do it so they use Islam to get the masses behind them. In the UK u got idealogues what are very educated, but they feel alienated and humiliated also and hate society and want to destroy it. In both cases, the diagnosis of the virus is fascism.
Fascism is like a plague also, like u got 3 kinds of plague (newmonic, bubonic, and blood plague also), u got strains of fascism also.

Jas
12-10-2013, 11:26
Well, Jack, Arabs get mad when you kill them. Strange people...

This anger is just a tool what fascists are using in Muslim societies to control people and get power. U can c it with the MB in Egypt and in Libya and also in Turkey under Erdogan even to a certain extent.
RL, this anger is whipped up in the people for a reason...... U need to get the full picture and stop thinking its any kind of justified, or normal response cos 90% of the time its poor people just getting manipulated.

Jack17
12-10-2013, 21:21
@rl and jack17,

Not all Arabs (like Paksistanis) want to wage war on the US. What u got are local stuff like Kashmir and Palestine that all really not the US's doing at all, but which angers people.
But that's just a excuse cos the real problem is the growth of fascism in Islamic societies that above all, like what fascists in Europe was doing after WW1, want to use a sense of humiliation. This humiliation is only partly real, like humiliation cos of Kashmir or Palestine, the rest is just part of a idealojical agenda that is Islamist hard right. This is why some mental case in America wanting to burn the Holy Qu'ran is so dangerous.
So what u get are the mullahs telling that Muslims shud hate America cos of no democracy in our countries (like they got any interest in it!), that America colonized us (it didnt and was itself a colony), that it steals our resources (er, they buy it), that they hate us cos we are Muslims (and let us practice freely in the US), that they invented Al Qaeda (and the mullahs got a get out clause when AQ goes genocidal), that they are killing Muslims in our lands (er, more Muslims got killed by the Jihadis thany anything else), that America stole Muslim land, native American lands, Islamic Spain and dropped bombs on Japan (like there was no Islamic Empire also which the mullahs wont to revive), that America wants to destroy Muslims with education (which alone can help our countries) and that America want to destroy Muslim countries- which are getting actually destroyed by the hate, sectarianism and terror that the mullahs are supporting.

So RL, this smarmy attitude what u got is just part of the hypocrisy of the mullahs cos what is getting told with this kind of logic can get used against any state (like Russia or Sweden), any organization (like the UN), or any person also..... like Malala who they shot in the head just cos she wanted to go to school.
Jas, you are brilliant! Very well said; I couldn't agree with you more.

robertmf
12-10-2013, 22:09
The Russians have relocated to Tunisia! Somehow, not much of a safer place! ;)

Ever been to Panama :question:

There are reports of a Russian being knifed by a Ukrainian in Panama

Russian Lad
12-10-2013, 22:10
RL, this anger is whipped up in the people for a reason...... U need to get the full picture and stop thinking its any kind of justified, or normal response cos 90% of the time its poor people just getting manipulated.

Jas, I am not a genius like you so you have to forgive me for not seeing it as clearly as I should.:) Yes, many are getting manipulated, however, there is some good and plausible material to manipulate them with. Remove this material - the manipulation will be much more harder.
As to the Russians killed in Libya -well, a Russian woman knived one of their officers to death, so understandably they got very upset.:) Maybe there was some manipulation involved as well.


There are reports of a Russian being knifed by a Ukrainian in Panama

He is alive and the Ukrainian got arrested. They get mad when they don't have access to salo (Ukr lard, their favorite food) in some remote countries, so I am not surprised.

Jas
12-10-2013, 22:16
Jas, I am not a genius like you so you have to forgive me not seeing it as clearly as I should.:) Yes, many are getting manipulated, however, there is some good and plausible material to manipulate them with.

U know what's screwing up Pakistan? Its not Kashmir and how we got 'humiliated' by India etc etc. It's poverty, sectarianism, feudalism, corruption, separatism, religious militancy based on ignorance, and a creaking state that cant give either security or education. What's harder.... to try and fix that list that wud mean taking on the landlord-political class or just standing in the street with a loudspeaker shouting, "Kill the kafuruun! Death to America. Pakistan Zindabad."
Go figure, RL.

Russian Lad
12-10-2013, 22:29
Death to America.

I have a feeling though that Pakistan is very dependent on the US and is treated by the US as its fourth-world colony basically. Remember that episode when the US choppers just flew in and the seals killed Obama and other people? Imagine them doing something like that even in Russia.:) Say, trying to fly to Moscow from, say, Finland, and to liquidate Snowden, for example.:) In this respect, using your terminology, Pakistan seems to me a nothing state.

Jack17
12-10-2013, 22:57
I have a feeling though that Pakistan is very dependent on the US and is treated by the US as its fourth-world colony basically.

Good Lord RL, no matter what someone tells you or Tolka, it doesn't matter, you both are obsessed that in all things, the world over, the US is the great Satan; you simply can't escape that pardigm. It's really like some old Nazi who can never stop hating the Jews. No matter what you tell them, the world is controlled by a cabal of Jewish bankers.

Let's ask Jas how much the US controls Pakistan. I'd say any US control consists of the US government paying off leaders in the Pakistani Army and Intelligence Service to fly its drones to kill key Taliban. That's about it.

Russian Lad
12-10-2013, 23:05
Good Lord RL, no matter what someone tells you or Tolka, it doesn't matter, you both are obsessed that in all things, the world over, the US is the great Satan; you simply can't escape that pardigm. It's really like some old Nazi who can never stop hating the Jews. No matter what you tell them, the world is controlled by a cabal of Jewish bankers.

Let's ask Jas how much the US controls Pakistan. I'd say any US control consists of the US government paying off leaders in the Pakistani Army and Intelligence Service to fly its drones to kill key Taliban. That's about it.

I didn't say anything negative about the US in the post that you quoted, Jack, so you were blowing on cold water thinking it was hot milk.:) I said a negative thing about Pakistan though.
Russia treats Chechnya and Dagestan the same way, only officially they are a part of the Russian territory. As for me, the more Taliban is killed in Chechnya, the merrier.
Well, let me ask you this: for example, if Iranians were able to pay off certain US army and intelligence services to be able to seek and kill certain people on the US territory (using their attack helicopters and soldiers) whom they believe a dire threat to their national security (I am sure the Iranians have a long list:)), would you consider that just a minor inconvenience for the US sovereignty and security?:) In this question, you can change the US for Israel if you want to.:) To avoid picking on the US.:)

Jack17
12-10-2013, 23:38
No. Iran doesn't because the US Military is nowhere as corrupt as that in Pakistan. Now, you can say, "Oh yeah, sure it isn't." But you didn't work in the Pentagon for 5 years and I did. So, you have no basis for such an assumption.

It's not a question of whether what you said was negative about one country or another; for me, it's a question of whether it was true. I don't believe what you assert about Pakistan being some "colony" of the US is true at all. I'm sure there are days when President Obama wishes Pakistan was under the control of the US; but it isn't. Pakistan is a very independent and nuclear power.

Russian Lad
12-10-2013, 23:42
No. Iran doesn't because the US Military is nowhere as corrupt as that in Pakistan. Now, you can say, "Oh yeah, sure it isn't." But you didn't work in the Pentagon for 5 years and I did. So, you have no basis for such an assumption.

It is surely true, the Pakistani don't even have enough money:), but what if it was? You point out yourself that Pakistan has a totally corrupt military and security system, yet you claim it is a totally sovereign state.:) An oxymoron here, Jack.:) My main point though wasn't the discussion of how corrupt the US military is, you can surely see this.
And I can offer you another analogy. Take Berezovsky, he was on the Russians' wanted list for murders and embezzlement/fraud, the Russians still managed to kill him, but suppose they didn't strangle him in his own bathroom on his own expensive tie but sent to London jet fighters instead and levelled his mansion to the ground?:) Would you consider it a minor incident in no way threatening the GB security and sovereignty?:) I am, as always, just against double standards.:) In this analogy there is no need to discuss corruption, let's discuss the act itself.
No, Pakistan isn't the US colony, and I didn't say it is, I said it is "treated as a colony".

Jack17
12-10-2013, 23:55
Is there corruption in Russia? Is Russia a sovereign state?

Pakistan is neither a US colonly nor is it treated like one. It has nuclear weapons for god's sake.

Jas
12-10-2013, 23:55
Let's ask Jas how much the US controls Pakistan.

America has no control at all. It has pockets of influence and these come and go. They're like fixers, some wud be at high levels, but its like feeding cats, just deals getting done and that whole system is only possible cos overall..... there is no real political-cultural or even economic interests what both sides share.
C, Pakistan was between India and the Soviets, so America was ok u can say. But the world moved on and America is more with India and threatens Pakistani influence in Afghanistan, so the situation is like 360 from what it was 30 years back, say.
Pakistan built the bomb, hosted AQ, allowed OBL to live there, supports the Taliban, exports terror, allows heroin smuggling- all in defiance of America. Only building the bomb was a good thing and the rest is slowly destroying the country.
The problem with Pakistan is we are all to clear in what is against America, but not clear in what is in our own interest.
Yes, Pakistan was a anti soviet state.... but that was cos of Islam and history and not cos Pakistan had any special cultural or democratic type feeling of solidarity with America.
The problem with RL is that he sees a anti soviet stance as being pro american. But Pakistan has its own Islamist agenda going right back to Islamist thinkers at partition time. And that agenda can only be anti american.

Jack17
12-10-2013, 23:57
Precisely.

Jas
12-10-2013, 23:58
Pakistan is neither a US colonly nor is it treated like one. It has nuclear weapons for god's sake.

Just exactly what I told.... c above, but u got in a few secs before me. Of course, ure right.

Jas
13-10-2013, 00:00
The truly bizarre thing is guys that in 20 years, Pakistan cud end up really as a colony.... of China.

Russian Lad
13-10-2013, 00:01
Is there corruption in Russia? Is Russia a sovereign state?

Yes, there is. And most likely it is going to finish this country as you now it, and I think rather soon, but it hasn't yet reached the gargantuan proportions when, say, Shoygu (the current minister of armed forces), together with Lavrov, would get a bribe from Americans and allow the US choppers and seals to fly to Moscow to kill some terrorists.


The problem with RL is that he sees a anti soviet stance as being pro american. But Pakistan has its own Islamist agenda going right back to Islamist thinkers at partition time. And that agenda can only be anti american.

I have never said there are no anti-american moods/movements in Pakistan. As to Islamists, you can rent them, but you cannot make friends with them.

Jas
13-10-2013, 00:02
Yes, politically a colony of Saudi Arabia and econoically a colony of China. That is what can happen I think....

Jas
13-10-2013, 00:04
Yes, there is. And most likely it is going to finish this country as you now, but it hasn't yet reached the gargantuan proportions when, say, Shoygu would get a bribe from Americans and allow the US choppers and seals to fly to Moscow to kill some terrorists.



Why wud u even want to compare the Russian Federation with Pakistan? Like why? It's like comparing the UK with Somalia or something. Pakistan is in a bad bad way. Pointless comparison, really.

Russian Lad
13-10-2013, 00:13
Why wud u even want to compare the Russian Federation with Pakistan? Like why? It's like comparing the UK with Somalia or something. Pakistan is in a bad bad way. Pointless comparison, really.

Well, that's all I wanted to say - that Pakistan is in a bad bad way, Russia is in a bad way. And can also end up in a bad bad way.:) Hope it is clear now.:)

TolkoRaz
13-10-2013, 11:50
Jas, I am not a genius like you so you have to forgive me for not seeing it as clearly as I should.:) Yes, many are getting manipulated, however, there is some good and plausible material to manipulate them with. Remove this material - the manipulation will be much more harder.
As to the Russians killed in Libya -well, a Russian woman knived one of their officers to death, so understandably they got very upset.:) Maybe there was some manipulation involved as well.
.

RL, No Russians were killed in the incident to the best of my knowledge. Despite this, and as a result of the attack, the Russian Diplomats are now temporarily working out of Tunis.

TolkoRaz
13-10-2013, 11:56
Yes, there is. And most likely it is going to finish this country as you now it, and I think rather soon, but it hasn't yet reached the gargantuan proportions when, say, Shoygu (the current minister of armed forces), together with Lavrov, would get a bribe from Americans and allow the US choppers and seals to fly to Moscow to kill some terrorists.



I have never said there are no anti-american moods/movements in Pakistan. As to Islamists, you can rent them, but you cannot make friends with them.

As you correctly write, this would never happen. There is no way on this earth that the Kremlin would admit defeat and allow the US of A or any other Western power to come to Russia' help. The Kursk disaster was a perfect example of this - many died aboard the submarine because the Russian capability was not good enough, but Western help if it had been accepted might have saved lives.

I think the same applies to the Nord Ost (Dubrovka) siege - Western Counter-Terrorist expertise was offered, but was sadly rejected by the Kremlin in favour of Alfa Group etc.

robertmf
13-10-2013, 16:15
Yes, there is. And most likely it is going to finish this country as you now it, and I think rather soon, but it hasn't yet reached the gargantuan proportions when, say, Shoygu (the current minister of armed forces), together with Lavrov, would get a bribe from Americans and allow the US choppers and seals to fly to Moscow to kill some terrorists.


"sale" "bribe" "lease" "payola" : what's in a diplomatic word :question:

NATO base in Lenin's birthplace (http://en.ria.ru/trend/nato_transit_base_ulyanovsk_2012/) :rofl: