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annasophia
20-12-2007, 20:55
Is English your mother tongue? If not what is your first language?

My guess is that better than 70% of the posters on *Expat*.ru are Russians.

Russians are just fine and dandy, but don't try to fool us with your wonky English, a native speaker can spot it a mile away. Russian phrasing into English is a dead giveaway. Preposition misuse ditto. Don't pretend you're from South Africa because we all know that isn't English anyway.

Native Russian speakers for all their training and education and practice cannot hide the fact, try as they might, that English is NOT their native language. Give it up 'ppl', we can see right through you. Or smthng.

Come out of the closet. Admit you're Russian. You think you can hide it but you can't.

Bels
20-12-2007, 21:12
And inappropriate use of adjectives for particular subjects and sentences for example.

I think it's almost a third British, A little less American, Australian, Canadian etc. And athird Russian.

Look up the current poll for nationalities.

Good thread.

AndreyS
20-12-2007, 21:19
Is English your mother tongue? If not what is your first language?

My guess is that better than 70% of the posters on *Expat*.ru are Russians.

Russians are just fine and dandy, but don't try to fool us with your wonky English, a native speaker can spot it a mile away. Russian phrasing into English is a dead giveaway. Preposition misuse ditto. Don't pretend you're from South Africa because we all know that isn't English anyway.

Native Russian speakers for all their training and education and practice cannot hide the fact, try as they might, that English is NOT their native language. Give it up 'ppl', we can see right through you. Or smthng.

Come out of the closet. Admit you're Russian. You think you can hide it but you can't.


Who are you arguing with, I wonder? Or just venting your feelings?

AndreyS
20-12-2007, 21:21
And inappropriate use of adjectives for particular subjects and sentences for example.







Sometimes it could pass for joke.

For me the worst thing is articles. I don't have a feeling of correct use of articles. Rules don't help enough.

Bels
20-12-2007, 21:26
Good point, perhaps we should discuss it in teacher's folder. The green and long umbrella? But that might be simple for you. Yes Russians do have a problem when to include the article, and when not to.

annasophia
20-12-2007, 21:30
Correct. English articles are a huge bugaboo for non-native speakers, as are prepositions. As is phrasing.

I can pick out every Russian on this website as a non-native English speaker. Absolutely nothing wrong with that except that this website is named "Expat.ru".

Except that *English speaking* Russians are the majority users here. Not expats.

So what's up with that?

xSnoofovich
20-12-2007, 21:33
maybe you should include the largest english speaking country in your poll? or, any other english speaking country ?

Bels
20-12-2007, 21:35
Correct. English articles are a huge bugaboo for non-native speakers, as are prepositions. As is phrasing.

I can pick out every Russian on this website as a non-native English speaker. Absolutely nothing wrong with that except that this website is named "Expat.ru".

Except that *English speaking* Russians are the majority users here. Not expats.

So what's up with that?

The site is for expats and English speaking Russians. :)

Bels
20-12-2007, 21:38
I haven't found my students having problems with prepositions. However even British natives have some problems with Americans with their use of prepositions on for example, when asking for directions. Or is it the vocabulary??

AndreyS
20-12-2007, 21:42
The site is for expats and English speaking Russians. :)


And not for "English speaking"? :-)))

annasophia
20-12-2007, 21:44
The site is for expats and English speaking Russians. :)


Yes, I'm aware of that.

My point is that more Russians who 'speak English' than expats use this site. I also realize that an expat in Moscow could come from any of 235 or so countries.

Still it remains that the vast majority of posters here on Expat.ru are Russians.

Russians who would have us believe that in fact they are not Russians. What I'm saying is that (a) it's impossible to hide the fact that you're not a native English speaker and (b) very few expats seem to use this site. That's all.

Maybe it should be called "Hodge Podge For People Who Live In Moscow Very Few Of Whom Speak English As A Native Language"?

Albertina
20-12-2007, 21:49
I think it's a hint (and rather obvious) that in copycat there are more expats - so why don't you head there. noone will notice, really. with your hostility. geeze.. why would i care about the correct use of articles if someone can't even have the right manners. whoosh!

ps: not to mention the fact that there are French, |Germans, Italians, etc. who don't speak a perfect English. You must be the first time abroad or in the international community if you dare to be arrogant on the aspect of a language. How many do you speak and why don't you post something in the foreign languages so we could judge your perfect German or French... Russian perhaps? he-he...


Correct. English articles are a huge bugaboo for non-native speakers, as are prepositions. As is phrasing.

I can pick out every Russian on this website as a non-native English speaker. Absolutely nothing wrong with that except that this website is named "Expat.ru".

Except that *English speaking* Russians are the majority users here. Not expats.

So what's up with that?

Bels
20-12-2007, 21:54
I disagree and knowing this forum I believe there is a nice combination of Expats from many countries who speak English as a first language, and from those who use Engish as a second language.

Many English speaking natives will make mistakes because they are tired or they are in a hurry etc. However their mistakes will be different from that of a person using English as a second language.

annasophia
20-12-2007, 22:00
You are misunderstanding my point.

It is not than non-native English speakers make mistakes. It is the fact that this website bills itself as a place for expats.

When the vast majority of posters here, in fact and indeed are not expats.

I see that as misrepresentation.

And yes, misrepresentation is bad manners.

msbella
20-12-2007, 22:04
One quick question, if I were to originate from an Asian country, say, Malaysia, and have been speaking English my whole life (used both at home and in school). English is also used in our everyday conversations. Would you call me a native English speaker? Would you say English is my mother tongue? I'm rather confused upon this matter as, recently someone pointed out that, "you're not a native English speaker if you're not equipped with an American/British accent."

annasophia
20-12-2007, 22:10
msbella, you would seem definately to be in the 'other' language catagory, and an expat.

I notice that you have 10 posts to your credit? Why don't you post more often?

SalTheReturn
20-12-2007, 22:10
Is English your mother tongue? If not what is your first language?

My guess is that better than 70% of the posters on *Expat*.ru are Russians.

Russians are just fine and dandy, but don't try to fool us with your wonky English, a native speaker can spot it a mile away. Russian phrasing into English is a dead giveaway. Preposition misuse ditto. Don't pretend you're from South Africa because we all know that isn't English anyway.

Native Russian speakers for all their training and education and practice cannot hide the fact, try as they might, that English is NOT their native language. Give it up 'ppl', we can see right through you. Or smthng.

Come out of the closet. Admit you're Russian. You think you can hide it but you can't.

whats you point? i yet would say that the average russian speak english better than an english trying to speak russian

LOL

msbella
20-12-2007, 22:12
whats you point? i yet would say that the average russian speak english better than an english trying to speak russian

LOL

somehow, i would have to agree.. *sigh*

Bels
20-12-2007, 22:16
Problem is Sal, You are missiing the issue. Now for those who already don't know, who is the first language speaker of English? Salreturn or clean32.

I hope I have now made my point clear now :)

Albertina
20-12-2007, 22:21
Expressing your thoughts in a hostile and divisive fashion is bad manners.

Re-read your post and imagine that you are a Russian.




You are misunderstanding my point.

It is not than non-native English speakers make mistakes. It is the fact that this website bills itself as a place for expats.

When the vast majority of posters here, in fact and indeed are not expats.

I see that as misrepresentation.

And yes, misrepresentation is bad manners.

msbella
20-12-2007, 22:23
msbella, you would seem definately to be in the 'other' language catagory, and an expat.



Hmm...how ironic, let's just say i speak only English and not any other languages. It's downright impossible to put me in the 'other language' category, am I right? I guess this matter will never be solved..

Ooh..by the way, I am a student expat. :)

Bels
20-12-2007, 22:33
You are misunderstanding my point.

It is not than non-native English speakers make mistakes. It is the fact that this website bills itself as a place for expats.

When the vast majority of posters here, in fact and indeed are not expats.

I see that as misrepresentation.

And yes, misrepresentation is bad manners.

That is what is what I was waiting for, thinking like a Brit I was waiting for this
clarification, untill big mouth stepped in. But you have clarified it anyway.

And I now disagree, treat Russians with respect, as many contribute here in a positive manner. And if they are practising their English here great, or if they are helping, great!


This site advertises a site for expats and English speaking Russiians. They also have a section if they wish to use their own languages.

Russians, foreigners, and English native speakers are welcome here.

SalTheReturn
20-12-2007, 23:12
Hi do not understand what you guys are discussing about , but was happy to hit the record of 4 thanks odnovremenno!:goblin:

Clean32
20-12-2007, 23:25
Hmm...how ironic, let's just say i speak only English and not any other languages. It's downright impossible to put me in the 'other language' category, am I right? I guess this matter will never be solved..

Ooh..by the way, I am a student expat. :)


Welcome to the club MsBella. I fully understand how Russians in there ignorance (not there fault) have a slightly distorted view of who and where are English speakers. Malaysia Has a very high number of native English and English is the main language used, complete with there own accents. Not as diverse as the British islands though. However may Russians do think that a 1920s plum up there but accent is the only English. Even perfect English is debatable, and is debated often.
Malaysia, India, the Philippines, Indonesia, Singapore, Hong Kong, all have native English speaking communities.
Every country that I have mentioned uses the same text books as England, only in America do you see the language officially change,( also there weights and measures )
The art here is effective communication. And that is what I think this particular site is quite good at, Russians and non Russians communicating in a way that some times is not possible in the real world. The down side of that is fortunately more the exception than the norm. Russians in there reading of casual English tend to take it to literally, other non native English speakers just donít get the point being made and head off in a totally different direction, IE SAL is very good at that. But worse of all we do have some trolls that just like to crank up the site.


As for people pretending to be native English, well there have been plenty of them over the years, usually they pretend to be Americans, and are fast on the trail of chatting up Russian girls. Unfortunately Russians donít notice there incorrect English usage ( for where they claim to come from)

Albertina
20-12-2007, 23:30
Basta! Kaput! Fini!

let's all shut up so that we don't cause inconvenience to puristic members of the forum like the author of the thread :goblin:

TGP
20-12-2007, 23:38
Is English your mother tongue? If not what is your first language?

My guess is that better than 70% of the posters on *Expat*.ru are Russians.

Russians are just fine and dandy, but don't try to fool us with your wonky English, a native speaker can spot it a mile away. Russian phrasing into English is a dead giveaway. Preposition misuse ditto. Don't pretend you're from South Africa because we all know that isn't English anyway.

Native Russian speakers for all their training and education and practice cannot hide the fact, try as they might, that English is NOT their native language. Give it up 'ppl', we can see right through you. Or smthng.

Come out of the closet. Admit you're Russian. You think you can hide it but you can't.

And why do you think that Russians on this site pretend they are not Russians? Check their profile, they say where they are from.
Or maybe I missed something, don't know.

TGP
21-12-2007, 00:13
You are misunderstanding my point.

It is not than non-native English speakers make mistakes. It is the fact that this website bills itself as a place for expats.

When the vast majority of posters here, in fact and indeed are not expats.

I see that as misrepresentation.

And yes, misrepresentation is bad manners.


So, in short, those whose native language is not English, should be off this site.
Read another poll- "Where are you from?" It shows this site is international, and I believe many of its members live not only in Russia or in English speakig countries, but in many other countries too. It means the site is popular.
if you want only native English speaking ppl be here, well, I can only second Albertina: there is another site where 95% of the members are E.sp. people who spend almost all their time together, both online and in real life. Kind of a closed society. Is it not enough for you? Or the friendly atmosphere of this site is not quite what you would like to have?

SalTheReturn
21-12-2007, 01:27
Welcome to the club MsBella. I fully understand how Russians in there ignorance (not there fault) have a slightly distorted view of who and where are English speakers. Malaysia Has a very high number of native English and English is the main language used, complete with there own accents. Not as diverse as the British islands though. However may Russians do think that a 1920s plum up there but accent is the only English. Even perfect English is debatable, and is debated often.
Malaysia, India, the Philippines, Indonesia, Singapore, Hong Kong, all have native English speaking communities.
Every country that I have mentioned uses the same text books as England, only in America do you see the language officially change,( also there weights and measures )
The art here is effective communication. And that is what I think this particular site is quite good at, Russians and non Russians communicating in a way that some times is not possible in the real world. The down side of that is fortunately more the exception than the norm. Russians in there reading of casual English tend to take it to literally, other non native English speakers just don’t get the point being made and head off in a totally different direction, IE SAL is very good at that. But worse of all we do have some trolls that just like to crank up the site.


As for people pretending to be native English, well there have been plenty of them over the years, usually they pretend to be Americans, and are fast on the trail of chatting up Russian girls. Unfortunately Russians don’t notice there incorrect English usage ( for where they claim to come from)


i guess even europeans would have troubles in declaring a (just an example) a malaysian an english native speaker, you surely know how many idioms are present in the country and how you still have got very small communities featuring their own peculiar language

so you have got countries with a ways to varied multitude of languages to affirm english is the native language

takes Nigerians, they are not native speakers, they are part of a country where english is the official language

country where english is an official language it is a different thing from countries where english is the native language spoken by an omogeneous majority of people (homogeneity is conventionally given when 90% of the population has got the same language)

my point is that it is a different thing "a country where the official language is..." and "a country where the native language is..."
compared politics they seem to stick to the same rule

PS. re-read your post sorry, you did not say Malaysyan and Indians and other are native english speaker but that they have native emglsh speaking communities, so i agree fully

Judge
21-12-2007, 01:50
This sites has got a good balance between expats and russians.Without many of the russians on board this site wont be half as good.Also the site helps russians practice their writing skills and gives them an insight on how expats find their country and russians get to know more about the places where the expats come from.Take Clean32,i'm sure many russians know alot more about NZ than they did before.
Anyways this site isn't only for expats ,it is also for russians,look above,it says''The virtual community for English - speaking expats and Russians..

dick
21-12-2007, 05:05
One quick question, if I were to originate from an Asian country, say, Malaysia, and have been speaking English my whole life (used both at home and in school). English is also used in our everyday conversations. Would you call me a native English speaker? Would you say English is my mother tongue? I'm rather confused upon this matter as, recently someone pointed out that, "you're not a native English speaker if you're not equipped with an American/British accent."

Don't listen to them! Your english is pretty good.

I guess Jamaicans aren't native speakers. So what you be speakin' mon?

SalTheReturn
21-12-2007, 11:11
I repeat the concept

on all official grounds there is a difference from beiin from a country where english is the official language and being a native english speaker

a Malaysian is NOT a native english speakers

britpat1
21-12-2007, 11:59
Hello! Does anyone here actually understand English! The Q was - what is your first language. For Russians that would be Russian, English would be your second language.

It you are Asian, living in Asia and choose to speak English at home, school or on the toilet while having a number one or number two, you still do not speak native English, as you are not (shock horror) speaking with a native (keyword) tongue. You couldbe on Mars and be speaking English but it will not make you a native speaker unless you are native.

German's and the French may know English, but it still does not make it a first language for them nor native. If I was t speak German, it would not make me a native German speaker nor would German be my first language.

There is no such thing as American English. English is English. (FULL STOP). American's attempt to speak English. Tell me what a sarnie or buttie is?

The world's biggest English country, by that you would mean India and not America.

Whatever.... Get over it. English is English.

Clean32
21-12-2007, 13:14
Hello! Does anyone here actually understand English! The Q was - what is your first language. For Russians that would be Russian, English would be your second language.

It you are Asian, living in Asia and choose to speak English at home, school or on the toilet while having a number one or number two, you still do not speak native English, as you are not (shock horror) speaking with a native (keyword) tongue. You couldbe on Mars and be speaking English but it will not make you a native speaker unless you are native.

German's and the French may know English, but it still does not make it a first language for them nor native. If I was t speak German, it would not make me a native German speaker nor would German be my first language.

There is no such thing as American English. English is English. (FULL STOP). American's attempt to speak English. Tell me what a sarnie or buttie is?

The world's biggest English country, by that you would mean India and not America.

Whatever.... Get over it. English is English.

Ok you are confirming my point about Russians but missing my point about Native English speakers.
There are complete communities in India for example who speak English from birth, go to school where only English is spoken and taught, do the shopping in English and yes sit on the toilet and speak English. Hence they are native English speakers.
If you were born on mars, only spoke English, when to school in English, sat on the toilet speaking English, then again you would be a native English speaker.

As for Americans, , American English is a bit more different that you think. Color colour etc etc

Surfsup37
21-12-2007, 13:18
I don't think it is as clear cut as that. Firstly, most Indians don't speak English, go there and you will see what I mean. The ones who do speak English, also speak another Indian dialect.

Most Nigerians speak pidgin English which I guarantee you will not understand. The educated ones also speak English which you will understand.

List of countries by English-speaking population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population)

My son was born in Russia (two years ago), but he has heard English and Russian since birth. In fact, his English is better than his Russian. :eh: Which one is his native language or are they both native languages or are you saying he doesn't have a native language?

I have met people born in the US, who didn't start speaking English until they went to school, and Brits who didn't start speaking English until they went to school. What is their native language?

There are more people who speak English as a second language than as their first language. Like it or not, the English language of the future will not be controlled by those who learned English from birth.

*LM*
21-12-2007, 13:53
...There is no such thing as American English. English is English. (FULL STOP). American's attempt to speak English. Tell me what a sarnie or buttie is?

The world's biggest English country, by that you would mean India and not America.

Whatever.... Get over it. English is English.


If there is no such thing as American English, and Americans have not succeeded in their attempt to speak English, may I ask what would you say first language was of those who were born and raised in the States?

SalTheReturn
21-12-2007, 13:57
Ok you are confirming my point about Russians but missing my point about Native English speakers.
There are complete communities in India for example who speak English from birth, go to school where only English is spoken and taught, do the shopping in English and yes sit on the toilet and speak English. Hence they are native English speakers.
If you were born on mars, only spoke English, when to school in English, sat on the toilet speaking English, then again you would be a native English speaker.

As for Americans, , American English is a bit more different that you think. Color colour etc etc

I repeat tha nor the UN nor other international organizations consider them as a native speakers
nor your professors at university will ever tell you that an indian is a native english speakers

as you said you can find in those countries english speaking communities and thats all

SalTheReturn
21-12-2007, 13:59
I don't think it is as clear cut as that. Firstly, most Indians don't speak English, go there and you will see what I mean. The ones who do speak English, also speak another Indian dialect.

Most Nigerians speak pidgin English which I guarantee you will not understand. The educated ones also speak English which you will understand.

List of countries by English-speaking population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population)


My son was born in Russia (two years ago), but he has heard English and Russian since birth. In fact, his English is better than his Russian. :eh: Which one is his native language or are they both native languages or are you saying he doesn't have a native language?

I have met people born in the US, who didn't start speaking English until they went to school, and Brits who didn't start speaking English until they went to school. What is their native language?

There are more people who speak English as a second language than as their first language. Like it or not, the English language of the future will not be controlled by those who learned English from birth.

it was already said: wikipedia is not a source you should bring forth to support your opinion. The credentials of such work are pretty low in between the academics. Next time pls rely on the Britannica.

Ryabenko
21-12-2007, 14:04
Sometimes it could pass for joke.

For me the worst thing is articles. I don't have a feeling of correct use of articles. Rules don't help enough.

I would agree with this point. I don't have that feeling either. :((

It's true that there are more Russians in this forum than expats. Maybe it's natural.

MickeyTong
21-12-2007, 14:18
There is no such thing as American English. English is English. (FULL STOP). American's attempt to speak English. Tell me what a sarnie or buttie is?
The world's biggest English country, by that you would mean India and not America.
Whatever.... Get over it. English is English.

English has always been a hybrid language, growing and developing by incorporating words from other languages. It could be argued that words like "sarnie" and "buttie" are dialect, not used in the USA, in the same way that Aussies, Kiwis, South Africans Jamaicans and Malaysians use words that are not encountered elsewhere. The English language ain't never bin pure.

Ryabenko
21-12-2007, 14:24
I don't think it is as clear cut as that. Firstly, most Indians don't speak English, go there and you will see what I mean. The ones who do speak English, also speak another Indian dialect.

Most Nigerians speak pidgin English which I guarantee you will not understand. The educated ones also speak English which you will understand.

List of countries by English-speaking population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population)

My son was born in Russia (two years ago), but he has heard English and Russian since birth. In fact, his English is better than his Russian. :eh: Which one is his native language or are they both native languages or are you saying he doesn't have a native language?

I have met people born in the US, who didn't start speaking English until they went to school, and Brits who didn't start speaking English until they went to school. What is their native language?

There are more people who speak English as a second language than as their first language. Like it or not, the English language of the future will not be controlled by those who learned English from birth.

I guess your son has 2 native languages - Russian and English.
And I also read some statistics that proves your point: more people speak English as their second language than as their native. English is actually a global language now.

MickeyTong
21-12-2007, 14:24
It's true that there are more Russians in this forum than expats. Maybe it's natural.

Yep...it is natural that expats are in a minority. Surely, part of the experience of being an expat is to be amidst lots of local indigenous people: unless they build a laager (britpat1 - a useful and apt word incorporated into S. African English with specific meaning) and associate only with their own kind.

Clean32
21-12-2007, 15:36
I don't think it is as clear cut as that. Firstly, most Indians don't speak English, go there and you will see what I mean. The ones who do speak English, also speak another Indian dialect.

.

Just to clear up this point. i didnt say India is an english speaking country. i was pointing out that there is a large english speaking comunity ( about 3 million) who only speak english and no othere language. mainly decentands of the british imigrants, who regard themselfs as Brittish, Infact more brittish than the brittish, high tea G&T etc. but thay have lossed there ablity to get a UK passport due to most of then being second generation by decent.
i would call these peaple Native english speakers

SalTheReturn
21-12-2007, 16:08
Just to clear up this point. i didnt say India is an english speaking country. i was pointing out that there is a large english speaking comunity ( about 3 million) who only speak english and no othere language. mainly decentands of the british imigrants, who regard themselfs as Brittish, Infact more brittish than the brittish, high tea G&T etc. but thay have lossed there ablity to get a UK passport due to most of then being second generation by decent.
i would call these peaple Native english speakers

you would call but the UN would not and the international job market would not consider them as such...whats your point?

Clean32
21-12-2007, 17:37
you would call but the UN would not and the international job market would not consider them as such...whats your point?

My point is Sal, that you doint know shit, you are wrong in you opinions more often than not, becouse you base you opinons on a very limited sample if any.

britpat1
21-12-2007, 18:18
I know that what I have said has really put the wind up most people. No doubt sarnie and buttie got a few hits on google!

It all boils down to being native. If you are born in Russia and speak English and Russian, then you are not native English speaking. I have an English mate and his young daughter speaks English with a Russian tongue. Not a thing wrong with that, but she is therefore raised by natives but does not speak native English.

I am sorry to have to break it to you but certain countries adopt the English language, but you ruin it. It's colour, a theatre is different to cinema etc... That is English. The language itself my evolve in adoptive use countries, however, like it or not, you will never be native.

Sometimes bad things have to be said to good people. This is one of them. Black and white.

As for India, been there seen it. That is not English. Have you ever tried to call a call centre? I rest my case.

Clean32
21-12-2007, 18:20
you would call but the UN would not and the international job market would not consider them as such...whats your point?

well the point would be that Many english bussness have moved ther call centers to India or Malasia, becouse of there strong comunications technology and its cheeper. now when mr America rings AT&T for suport hes usally taling to an Indian in India, 99% of peaple who ring have no idea that thay are talking to an indian.

Judge
21-12-2007, 18:23
I know that what I have said has really put the wind up most people. No doubt sarnie and buttie got a few hits on google!

It all boild down to being native. If you are born in Russia and speak English and Russian, then you are not native English speaking.

I am sorry to have to break it to you but certain countries adopt the English language, but you ruin it. It's colour, a theatre is different to cinema etc... That is English. The language itself my evolve in adoptive use countries, however, like it or not, you will never be native.

sometimes bad things have to be said to good people.

As for India, been there seen it. That is not English. have you ever trued calling a call centre. I rest my case.

Many call centres are moving back to the uk.:coffee::coffee:

britpat1
21-12-2007, 18:47
well the point would be that Many english bussness have moved ther call centers to India or Malasia, becouse of there strong comunications technology and its cheeper. now when mr America rings AT&T for suport hes usally taling to an Indian in India, 99% of peaple who ring have no idea that thay are talking to an indian.

99%? Where on earth did you get that stat from? That is a revalation to most of us who have been demoted to 1%! HA HA HA!

Have you spent an hour on the phone with some girl/guy in India (not that I have a problem with lovely Indian people) and tried to get a basic transaction done over the phone? For example, like telephone banking, or even a telephone bill payment, it's ALMOST but not as bad as Russian banking over the counter!

Always a high blood pressure exp!

I had my new caard delivered to an old address and the pin code and checkbook too because of an Indian call centre blip.

Most call centres were diverted to India because of low costs, which is a good thing. However, it did not work because, they do not understand some requests, it takes much longer and costs more to get something done. This experiment has gone balls up and most of the banks in the UK realise this and are placing call centres back in the UK. This is because English is NOT their first language. They are not native speakers.

Get it?

Bels
21-12-2007, 19:03
I guess your son has 2 native languages - Russian and English.
And I also read some statistics that proves your point: more people speak English as their second language than as their native. English is actually a global language now.

Hopefully the quoted son will be eventually bi-lingual just like my son will be.

britpat1
21-12-2007, 19:16
Speaking many languages is a talent it should be celebrated and encouraged.

Surfsup37
21-12-2007, 19:19
Just so we are clear, the only "native" speakers of English are located in the southern part of English isle. :eh:

The Welsh, Irish, Cockneys (I say Jeeves, "They may be located near the right area, but that's not the Queen's English), Scottish and don't forget the Geordie's speak some strange dialect which may resemble English, but shouldn't be confused with English.

Interesting, then I guess by your definition English is only spoken by BBC broadcasters over the age of 70.

Well, At the End of the Day old sport, it looks like you are in your own "Little England" drinking a warm bitters, watching cricket as the sun finally goes down on the Empire. :rolleyes:

Tell Bertie, Surfsup says; "Yo"

SalTheReturn
21-12-2007, 19:28
great clean has been proved wrong

britpat1
21-12-2007, 19:41
Dialect is normal in English. That is what makes it English. However, it is still native.

dick
21-12-2007, 20:26
great clean has been proved wrong

Not the first time and won't be the last. Well OK it happens everyday Sal. But with you it's like every hour Sal.



Why do you all focus on what is different about the peoples of this world?

One Love One World

Bels
21-12-2007, 20:29
great clean has been proved wrong

I'm afraid you're wrong Sal, this guy spouts more garbage than you do. Native English comes in many accents. If the countries first language is English, then your native tongue is English.

But lets not forget an issue stated by the thread writer that caused some to be offended, and by the way I think it's something that 2nd language speakers spotted, but the natives didn't.

This site welcomes a mix of native English and ESL speakers. And so what if their are more esl speakers here. It doesn't matter, and if you can tell the difference, so what. Everythings ok.

Clean32
21-12-2007, 21:06
great clean has been proved wrong

rubbish again Sal no one has proven any thing, the fact that its posted that english banks are pulling out there call centers from india, actualy proves my point, thay cant be pulled out if thay were not put there in the first place, as for dick, what information has he ever posted??

SalTheReturn
21-12-2007, 21:09
rubbish again Sal no one has proven any thing, the fact that its posted that english banks are pulling out there callcenters from england, actualy proves my point, thay cant be pulled out if thay were not put there in the first place, as for dick, what information has he ever posted??

i have found reliable philippinos cleaners!!!:fridaysign:

Miracle77777
26-12-2007, 11:36
My guess is that better than 70% of the posters on *Expat*.ru are Russians.
Russians are just fine and dandy, but don't try to fool us with your wonky English, a native speaker can spot it a mile away. Russian phrasing into English is a dead giveaway. Preposition misuse ditto. Don't pretend you're from South Africa because we all know that isn't English anyway.
Native Russian speakers for all their training and education and practice cannot hide the fact, try as they might, that English is NOT their native language. Give it up 'ppl', we can see right through you. Or smthng.
Come out of the closet. Admit you're Russian. You think you can hide it but you can't.

I can't see what bothers you, Annasophia???
Who said that Russians hiding here?!?
Who said that we pretend to be native english-speakers?!?
First of all - this site was created for expats, like you too, could solve some of their questions and to get close to Russia, our culture and customs...
Am I wrong?
So, it is naturally that here so many Russians...and I thought you, as all expats, should be grateful to us for info and good relation!!
Second - it is totally wrong opinion, that non-native speakers could not become as good as native! (and here I mean not only English, but French, Chinese e t.c.)
I am sure - smart and talented person, after living in native area for a few years, will become as good as others.....especially among the middle level of native-speakers....I admit, though, we could easily be spotted in elite society...but it is too small chance to get there ^-*
And the last - Look at all of this forums - we able to speak with you, to discuss all problems and it seems you enjoying of our communication very often... we could do it in spite of fact that we living in Russia, so English is non-often-used language here.
But I have doubts that all expats here (with small exception) will be able to communicate with us in Russian...though they live in native area, they could hear it everywhere and they almost forced to speak it.... It is difficult, isn't it???
Oof....thanks......

Bels
26-12-2007, 11:51
99%? Where on earth did you get that stat from? That is a revalation to most of us who have been demoted to 1%! HA HA HA!

Have you spent an hour on the phone with some girl/guy in India (not that I have a problem with lovely Indian people) and tried to get a basic transaction done over the phone? For example, like telephone banking, or even a telephone bill payment, it's ALMOST but not as bad as Russian banking over the counter!

Always a high blood pressure exp!

I had my new caard delivered to an old address and the pin code and checkbook too because of an Indian call centre blip.

Most call centres were diverted to India because of low costs, which is a good thing. However, it did not work because, they do not understand some requests, it takes much longer and costs more to get something done. This experiment has gone balls up and most of the banks in the UK realise this and are placing call centres back in the UK. This is because English is NOT their first language. They are not native speakers.

Get it?

My experience of living in Britain, yes I know the difference on the phone when Indians phone me up trying to sell me mobile phones, double glazing, loans etc. Indian accents from India, representing local companies in UK. I immediatel hang up. And the same as you make a call somewhere, you can tell the difference.

dick
26-12-2007, 19:17
I can't see what bothers you, Annasophia???
Who said that Russians hiding here?!?
Who said that we pretend to be native english-speakers?!?
First of all - this site was created for expats, like you too, could solve some of their questions and to get close to Russia, our culture and customs...
Am I wrong?
So, it is naturally that here so many Russians...and I thought you, as all expats, should be grateful to us for info and good relation!!
Second - it is totally wrong opinion, that non-native speakers could not become as good as native! (and here I mean not only English, but French, Chinese e t.c.)
I am sure - smart and talented person, after living in native area for a few years, will become as good as others.....especially among the middle level of native-speakers....I admit, though, we could easily be spotted in elite society...but it is too small chance to get there ^-*
And the last - Look at all of this forums - we able to speak with you, to discuss all problems and it seems you enjoying of our communication very often... we could do it in spite of fact that we living in Russia, so English is non-often-used language here.
But I have doubts that all expats here (with small exception) will be able to communicate with us in Russian...though they live in native area, they could hear it everywhere and they almost forced to speak it.... It is difficult, isn't it???
Oof....thanks......


I think it's Clean32 with his paranoia that is getting people here thinking if someone is for real or not. I'll explain this in a new thread.

I fool people with my Russian all the time. People call me and hang up right away because I sound Russian and they were told to call an American.

I was at a party three weeks ago and after four hours one guest that I had never met before came to the balcony and asked why we were speaking english. She was surprised to find out that I was American.

12 years here will do wonders for your accent.

People are also surpised to find out my wife is Russian. She has very little accent.


and now for clean32's rant

Clean32
26-12-2007, 19:36
I think it's Clean32 with his paranoia that is getting people here thinking if someone is for real or not. I'll explain this in a new thread.

I fool people with my Russian all the time. People call me and hang up right away because I sound Russian and they were told to call an American.

I was at a party three weeks ago and after four hours one guest that I had never met before came to the balcony and asked why we were speaking english. She was surprised to find out that I was American.

12 years here will do wonders for your accent.

People are also surpised to find out my wife is Russian. She has very little accent.

My GOD you have a wife, please as on my sympathies. What number is she? I mean you have been here as you say 12 years, so is she like wife number 12?
And did you learn to be a sarcastic dick in Russia. Or were you just a loser before you got here?

Miracle77777
27-12-2007, 21:04
I think it's Clean32 with his paranoia that is getting people here thinking if someone is for real or not. I'll explain this in a new thread.

I fool people with my Russian all the time. People call me and hang up right away because I sound Russian and they were told to call an American.

I was at a party three weeks ago and after four hours one guest that I had never met before came to the balcony and asked why we were speaking english. She was surprised to find out that I was American.

12 years here will do wonders for your accent.

People are also surpised to find out my wife is Russian. She has very little accent.


and now for clean32's rant

Thanks, Dick - This is exactly what I think!!
For speaking without or with a little accent - you need just live in a native area....someone needs few years...someone - few months...:watching:
Of course it is important what type of language you study and what language is your native....But all could be possible with Great Desire ^-*:gorgeous:
So...my congratulatings to you and especially to your wife for your so high level in Russian! :applause:
More languages you do know- more chances you do have in your life!!
It is one of the most important skills and it is always respecting and helpful!
I wish I could speak more languages too....:wavey:

Bels
27-12-2007, 21:17
Don't be fooled by this person, miracle. He's a sing, and he's slandering others with Russian families who n have been here a long time. Especially clean32 who does speak good Russian. He's patronising you. Read his previous slanderous posts and don't be fooled by him.

Clean32
27-12-2007, 21:33
maybe you should include the largest english speaking country in your poll? or, any other english speaking country ?

that would be Canida ??

Bels
27-12-2007, 21:39
You are misunderstanding my point.

It is not than non-native English speakers make mistakes. It is the fact that this website bills itself as a place for expats.

When the vast majority of posters here, in fact and indeed are not expats.

I see that as misrepresentation.

And yes, misrepresentation is bad manners.

It doesn't state it's the place for expats alone. It states its position for expats and English speaking Russians. Simple as that, and if the Russians are here to help us out or for us to help them out I call it a good partnership. And makes this forum unique compared other lesser forums related to Moscow and expats :) YES WE WELCOME RUSSIANS AND THOSE OTHERS WHO USE ENGLISH AS A SECOND LANGUAGE. Do you understand :)

Bels
27-12-2007, 21:43
that would be Canida ??

ERR! OR is it Asia ?? or Australasia ?? :) Of course there is Amerikanski, which is similar in some ways to English :)

xSnoofovich
27-12-2007, 23:06
The green and long umbrella? But that might be simple for you. Yes Russians do have a problem when to include the article, and when not to.


I am lost - I guess I don't speak English - I mean, if I did- I would say "The long green umbrella", but, then again, I am not British, Is I Bels?

Bels
27-12-2007, 23:14
I am lost - I guess I don't speak English - I mean, if I did- I would say "The long green umbrella", but, then again, I am not British, Is I Bels?

You certainly are, aint you :) Try the quiz stating the answer for long green umbrella in the teachers forum.

Albertina
27-12-2007, 23:27
Is Britpat a former annasophia? What a mysterious transformation. give me a break, what can be more obvious. You either underestimate others' intelligence or equate it with yours.


By the way, Nabokov started to write his novels in English well into the advanced adult age, and I believe, as well as a native speaker.

dick
28-12-2007, 03:10
Don't be fooled by this person, miracle. He's a sing, and he's slandering others with Russian families who n have been here a long time. Especially clean32 who does speak good Russian. He's patronising you. Read his previous slanderous posts and don't be fooled by him.

And what are you doing here Bels? Why don't you let this girl make up her own mind? I think she has one.

I ask you this Bels has Clean32 ever slandered me?

dick
28-12-2007, 03:13
My GOD you have a wife, please as on my sympathies. What number is she? I mean you have been here as you say 12 years, so is she like wife number 12?
And did you learn to be a sarcastic dick in Russia. Or were you just a loser before you got here?


You can look at this post Bels. To help you in your answer.

Clean32
28-12-2007, 03:22
You can look at this post Bels. To help you in your answer.

Yes dick and any one can read your posts.

I think it must have come a surprise to many Russian girls that you finally posted you have a wife, guess that shows you up for the dog you really are.

should put it up as a sticky, "warning dick has a wife"

Miracle77777
28-12-2007, 10:01
By the way, Nabokov started to write his novels in English well into the advanced adult age, and I believe, as well as a native speaker.

Yeah...I believe even better than most of them!!!!^-*
:agree:

Transparent Theatre
07-10-2008, 12:13
I frequently notice appalling mistakes in English - from "native speakers". There's one - an active member on "another forum" - who can't write basic English without making the mistakes of an eight-year-old.

So the smug pat-yourself-on-the-back brigade here need to get a life, really.

AndreyS
07-10-2008, 12:21
I frequently notice appalling mistakes in English - from "native speakers". There's one - an active member on "another forum" - who can't write basic English without making the mistakes of an eight-year-old.

So the smug pat-yourself-on-the-back brigade here need to get a life, really.

What's the root of this, in your opinion, TT?
Don't they read enough? Or even don't watch TV?

honesty
07-10-2008, 12:30
A very strange topic you are discussing on this thread. Is the matter that you are trying to make this site only for native English speaker foreigners and willing for non native English speakers (Russians and other foreigners) to say:”ATTENTION, I AM NOT A NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER, SO, AM I ALLOWED TO JOIN YOUR COMMUNITY?”. Why should someone hide that he/she is not a native English speaker? Maybe your consideration related to that surfing on this site you will start making the same mistakes as foreigners and forget your language? 
I am not a native English speaker, guys. What should and could I do?

w.meijerink
07-10-2008, 12:44
So what's up with that?

:10293:Let me see;

1. Your next coming up in your mind can be that women are men and men are women? :yuk:
2. Some of the English people are Dutch so they have to use :bong:
3. 10% of the people are not happy :(
4. Some people here has more than one nickname on internet, so w.meijerink, tukkersterror and John2 has to be the same person.
5. :11629: So what's up with that?

:lol:

Transparent Theatre
07-10-2008, 13:05
What's the root of this, in your opinion, TT?
Don't they read enough? Or even don't watch TV?

Bad education at school, I think.

Also, a general feeling that it's not cool to be well-educated.

w.meijerink
07-10-2008, 13:56
Bad education at school, I think.

Also, a general feeling that it's not cool to be well-educated.

If you mean in Russia, your right.

My wife and mother in law are English teachers in a privet university in Sank Petersburg and just told me last month that there are a lot of new teachers without right diplomas to give lessons.
Also the last few years it's difficult to find good books to give lessons in English (now I send them).
Maybe the English consulate have some ways to help, but noway!

Even the project (started in 2004) that all doctors has to speak English in 1-5 years is a fake project, because they buy there diplomas on internet.

But there is some hope, because a lot of parents send there children to privet teachers and in one year you see this children growing from nothing to almost perfect English.

AndreyS
07-10-2008, 20:20
Bad education at school, I think.

Also, a general feeling that it's not cool to be well-educated.

I remember a general feeling from my adolescence, everybody said: hey boys and girls, it's so interesting to be well-educated. It also helps you earn money.

Albertina
07-10-2008, 20:24
I remember a general feeling from my adolescence, everybody said: hey boys and girls, it's so interesting to be well-educated. It also helps you earn money.

no, family, looks, luck - that helps, not education.

AndreyS
07-10-2008, 20:32
no, family, looks, luck - that helps, not education.

Yes, all that education has already gone down the drain. In my work I don't use a single formula from physics. And I even don't miss it. Yes we just live. Live as we can.

AndreyS
07-10-2008, 20:33
no, family, looks, luck - that helps, not education.

Not MBA? ;-)

It still seems to me very interesting to be educated...

Albertina
07-10-2008, 20:36
Not MBA? ;-)

It still seems to me very interesting to be educated...

It's very interesting to be in my head. For my therapist that is.

Albertina
07-10-2008, 20:38
Yes, all that education has already gone down the drain. In my work I don't use a single formula from physics. And I even don't miss it. Yes we just live. Live as we can.

I use e=mc2 !

AndreyS
07-10-2008, 20:46
I use e=mc2 !

Tell more.

Gypsy
07-10-2008, 20:47
Johnny was a scientist but now he is no more.

For what he thought was H2O was H2SO4.

Transparent Theatre
07-10-2008, 20:48
Yes, all that education has already gone down the drain. In my work I don't use a single formula from physics. And I even don't miss it. Yes we just live. Live as we can.

It's true. I have not transcribed any C13th-14th music from the historical notation for, well, several years now :)

On my trips to UK (more this year than usual, due to marvellous new Visa Rules...) I'm continually amazed to see examples of terrible spelling and grammar, even on public signs, road-signs, etc.

For example "Kings Road" (should be "King's Road")

Or this:

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_01/misspelledAP0609_468x311.jpg

privet2009
07-10-2008, 20:52
I'm not sure about syntax and written grammar but I have met a few educated young Russians (usually under 30) that articulate their english so perfectly that it is really too good to be native (the Dutch and Germans can also be like this).

I met one girl of 19 (who always loved eating ice-cream and was so innocent... bless) that spoke english with perfect grammar and even with a slight US accent.

You would have sworn she was American... but allegedly (and I have no reason to disbelieve her she was totally honest... naive... etc) she knew no native speakers (except me) and her only source of language education was TV... she told me she must have spent 1000's of hours watching CNN, BBC etc. Mind you she did graduate MGU with a Red Diploma so she wasn't exactly thick.

I have met a few others similar to her - with amazing fluency - obviously genius in languages - with a mind to match in other areas.

The sharpest minds I have met have been Russian. I'm not ashamed to admit it :)

AndreyS
07-10-2008, 20:55
I'm not sure about syntax and written grammar but I have met a few educated young Russians (usually under 30) that articulate their english so perfectly that it is really too good to be native (the Dutch and Germans can also be like this).

I met one girl of 19 (who always loved eating ice-cream and was so innocent... bless) that spoke english with perfect grammar and even with a slight US accent.

You would have sworn she was American... but allegedly (and I have no reason to disbelieve her she was totally honest... naive... etc) she knew no native speakers (except me) and her only source of language education was TV... she told me she must have spent 1000's of hours watching CNN, BBC etc. Mind you she did graduate MGU with a Red Diploma so she wasn't exactly thick.

I have met a few others similar to her - with amazing fluency - obviously genius in languages - with a mind to match in other areas.

The sharpest minds I have met have been Russian. I'm not ashamed to admit it :)

There are some talented people. Or savants if you like.

Bels
07-10-2008, 23:00
You are misunderstanding my point.

It is not than non-native English speakers make mistakes. It is the fact that this website bills itself as a place for expats.

When the vast majority of posters here, in fact and indeed are not expats.

I see that as misrepresentation.

And yes, misrepresentation is bad manners.

NO! NO! NO! We has expats get very useful knowledge and friendship from those who are native here. We have those who are native English or western European speakers, and who enjoy the experience and friendship of native Russian. That is what expat.ru is, and that is what makes the forum unique, because we welcome all in the interests of expats. And correct me if I'm wrong, but exoat.ru is Russian owned. It's unique in this joint belief, and I know of a few Ruusians who will tell you this in comparison when they attempted to join a simillar forum, and didn't get the same welcome. Believe me I know, because I received the complaints by PM.

Bels
07-10-2008, 23:07
Let's not also forget that we expats might well have long term russian friends, Russian wives,Russian husbands, and growing Russian children. They might well also want to contribute here, either as expats or "Half expats".

So let's be together!

Adamodeus
08-10-2008, 17:21
msbella, you would seem definately to be in the 'other' language catagory, and an expat.

I notice that you have 10 posts to your credit? Why don't you post more often?
Yes, we can all see you are "defanatly" in the native speaker "catagory". :10241: This-here quote should also give you an opportunity to carefully consider that patronizing attitude of yours.

If you are so apt at picking out the Russians (hey, they are Russians, after all), then how do you pick out the native speakers? Experience tells me that it has nothing to do with how good their grammar is. But rather, the use of "your" in place of "you're" is a dead giveaway. :agree: Need I also remind you that Nabokov was a native Russian speaker? Yet he somehow managed to weasel his way into becoming one of the classics of English literature. I've read his stuff and I didn't see one thing wrong with his English. Need I mention Ayn Rand? Need I go on?

Here is my take on your problem: some people choose to emphasize the expat while others stress the inconspicuous .ru

Transparent Theatre
08-10-2008, 18:42
Need I mention Ayn Rand?

As long as you are not turning into Orion ;)

Albertina
08-10-2008, 22:49
Nabokov is a genius, but reading Ayn Rand is like reading a manual on some technical tool, or like hitting the nails into the wooden bar: simple, straightforward, uncomplicated and very non-subtle ;)

Her English is like Russian but in Latin letters :D

Transparent Theatre
08-10-2008, 23:01
but reading Ayn Rand is like reading a manual on some technical tool, or like hitting the nails into the wooden bar: simple, straightforward, uncomplicated and very non-subtle ;)

Her English is like Russian but in Latin letters :D

More like someone hitting you on the head with a mallet - no talent is required, but a few people are fooled into thinking its "philosophy" ;)

I usually find that it's only extremely stupid people who recommend Ayn Rand's gibberings. I tried to read her stupid book once - I got more than half-way, and then I needed revenge on her for wasting my time, so I tore it in half and threw it into two different waste-bins in Helsinki airport.

Albertina
08-10-2008, 23:06
In this case you'd have liked the movie 'The real passion of Ayn Rand'. It's kinda erotic ;) :applause:

TT, by the way, I have one paperback by her - I thought you might want it, since you threw it away in Finland :D

MickeyTong
08-10-2008, 23:43
Don't forget Joseph Conrad, a master of English prose. Though I have read that he always spoke with a strong Polish accent.

Albertina
08-10-2008, 23:47
Don't forget Joseph Conrad, a master of English prose. Though I have read that he always spoke with a strong Polish accent.

Yeah, everybody says he was a great writer language/style-wise, but I get bored ...

MickeyTong
08-10-2008, 23:50
My Oscar Wilde signature? Nothing missing.

Albertina
08-10-2008, 23:52
My Oscar Wilde signature? Nothing missing.

i missread.... crisis hit me on the head :bash:

MickeyTong
08-10-2008, 23:57
"Crisis? There is no crisis," as BJ Vorster said during the 1976 Soweto uprising.

MickeyTong
09-10-2008, 00:00
"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go."
There is probably a grammatical rule whereby the "cause happiness" in the first clause is implied after the semicolon.

MickeyTong
09-10-2008, 00:14
Of course, if you actually say this even the semicolon is implied.....

Transparent Theatre
09-10-2008, 00:55
TT, by the way, I have one paperback by her - I thought you might want it, since you threw it away in Finland :D

Oh, that's kind - but how about you look after it for me, for a while?

Like about 125 years? :)

I don't think I'll need any of her poorly-written drivel for at least that long :)

Penguin_The_Great
09-10-2008, 01:27
Hm... So, if I'm a naturalized American citizen of Russian origin, am I allowed to participate?

MickeyTong
09-10-2008, 01:28
Of course, why not?

Penguin_The_Great
09-10-2008, 04:28
For me the worst thing is articles. I don't have a feeling of correct use of articles. Rules don't help enough.

YES!!! I couldn't agree more. Why, oh why did you, mysterious English speakers, come up with such a strange concept? No matter how many hours I spend going through my grammar books, I still never manage to completely understand why those articles are even necessary, let alone how to use them correctly. :)

Adamodeus
09-10-2008, 13:41
Nabokov is a genius, but reading Ayn Rand is like reading a manual on some technical tool, or like hitting the nails into the wooden bar: simple, straightforward, uncomplicated and very non-subtle ;)

Her English is like Russian but in Latin letters :D
Oh, that's not fair - Russian writers are a lot more complicated than that! ;)

I don't think there's anything wrong with her English. The "simple, straightforward and very non-subtle" thing just happens naturally whenever somebody starts to preach. Read Lenin. Devilishly smart guy by all accounts, but his stuff (even in his native tongue) is most certainly not something I'd take with me on a holiday trip to Thailand if you know what I mean.

Incidentally, has anyone ever heard of the distinction between "native tongue" and "cradle tongue"? Now that was a smart concept that might even explain a few people on this forum!

Adamodeus
09-10-2008, 13:50
YES!!! I couldn't agree more. Why, oh why did you, mysterious English speakers, come up with such a strange concept? No matter how many hours I spend going through my grammar books, I still never manage to completely understand why those articles are even necessary, let alone how to use them correctly. :)
Check out this article about articles (Haha!) in Wikipedia:

Article (grammar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_(grammar))

I think the map is particularly interesting. It shows that the English are not the only ones who thought of them.

Transparent Theatre
09-10-2008, 14:07
Check out this article about articles (Haha!) in Wikipedia:

Article (grammar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_(grammar))


I get a "page doesn't exist" Wiki error message for that page - any chance of an update, since no new page is suggested from the error page? ;)

kirk10071
09-10-2008, 14:13
There is a typo in the link. You need the final parenthesis to be INSIDE the url link. Here it is correctly posted and the article is definitely interesting. (Get it? The "article" is "definitely" interes.... Oh, never mind). :)

Article (grammar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_(grammar))

Adamodeus
09-10-2008, 15:03
I get a "page doesn't exist" Wiki error message for that page - any chance of an update, since no new page is suggested from the error page? ;)
Yes, sorry.

Article (grammar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_(grammar))

Ah, Kirk beat me to it.

Penguin_The_Great
09-10-2008, 17:43
Check out this article about articles (Haha!) in Wikipedia:

Article (grammar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_(grammar))

I think the map is particularly interesting. It shows that the English are not the only ones who thought of them.

Oh, no! It's worse than I thought! Those articles are taking over the world! :)

isee
09-10-2008, 20:40
To answer the OP's question: it's 4th

I can totally understand where the OP is coming from but he/she is going about it in a very... clumsy and insesitive manner.

The girl from Malaysia (sorry forgot your forum name) raises a very good point though. If one knows only one language from birth, but their birthplace differs from that of the language in question, - what is one's native language?

Also i think the claim of Russians being a majority on this forum is false, but at the same time, the claim of native English speakers being a minority is true, making the OP's point all the more insensitive and alienates a bigger user base than intended (if indeed it was at all intended by the OP)

Lastly, seeing pearls like: "loosing (instead of losing)", "there (instead of their)", "could of (instead of could have)" and so on, consistently made by a native English speaker is surely more irritating and a bigger "sin" than an odd grammatical error made by a russian or a german...

Transparent Theatre
09-10-2008, 21:21
Lastly, seeing pearls like: "loosing (instead of losing)", "there (instead of their)", "could of (instead of could have)" and so on, consistently made by a native English speaker is surely more irritating and a bigger "sin" than an odd grammatical error made by a russian or a german...

Another example would be:


How does the fact that a clock ran out of a couple of digits effect the financial markets

Clearly written by someone who failed to complete basic Primary School education....

Benedikt
13-10-2008, 12:14
SWITZERLAND has 3 official languages (and Raeto Romanish, sorry spelling...)German, French and Italian.depending in which part you live...
Sout Africa has two, English and Africaans.and, i believe, one of the main black languages has been added.
Is 'native speaker' the language that you speak at home when you were born and speak with your parents and family or what you learn in school?
Is 'native speaker' the languge that is official 'state' languge? but you are born in lets say india, where english is the state languge, but you speak only hindi and learned english only at school.
this is like opening a can of worms...

Albertina
13-10-2008, 20:09
SWITZERLAND has 3 official languages (and Raeto Romanish, sorry spelling...)German, French and Italian.depending in which part you live...
Sout Africa has two, English and Africaans.and, i believe, one of the main black languages has been added.
Is 'native speaker' the language that you speak at home when you were born and speak with your parents and family or what you learn in school?
Is 'native speaker' the languge that is official 'state' languge? but you are born in lets say india, where english is the state languge, but you speak only hindi and learned english only at school.
this is like opening a can of worms...


No! it's like opening a Pandora box. Sounds more educated :farout:

Let's all start learning Esperanto, so that noone has an advantage!

Bels
14-10-2008, 00:27
Yes you more you think about it , no matter what we or I say there will be an argument. I have read Singapore speak Cantonese, Mandorin, or whatever ar home, but speak English outside in business etc in English. So it gets complicated.Would it not be easier just acknowledge what your mother tongue is the first language of what you are most used to using? Which language you are most comfortable and most knowledgable with is your native speaking level. So, a born Russian's native tongue is Russian.

But what about mixed families, like me. My sons use about 50% Russian, and 5% English. My youngest 3 almost 3 year old communicates freely in English and Russian. Now which language will he be classified as being native, Will he simply not be classified as both Russian and British English native? He will also have both accents. And may well be tri lingual like my older son of 11. He could not learn English, as he would have known more than his English Russian teacher, and joined a smaller group in German. It appears he's already picking this language up very fast , so he could well be tri- lingual in the end. Ithink the aecret is to keep up the parctice in use of all the languages that you learn somehow with native speakers, and keep hold of these languages that you learn. To become fluent in them all.

Albertina
14-10-2008, 00:29
But what about mixed families, like me. My sons use about 50% Russian, and 5% English.

hmmm, what about other 45%?! and whose are they? :wazzup:

Bels
14-10-2008, 00:42
Another example would be:



Clearly written by someone who failed to complete basic Primary School education....

Even though you have criticised me in the past, I must admit I find "loose" instead of "Lose" very annoying for example. But are they natives, as I find it hard to believe, yes I do see such crazy mistakes in MSN and even timesonline forums, and yes normally I can tell the errors of whether they are native or not. But this very common error such as loosing and losing is very irritating, as it is not a casual typo.

justposting
15-10-2008, 00:06
Am I the only one who is mad about the original post? seriously, if you replaced the word 'russian' with 'gay' it would look like a homophobic post.

if you don't like the way things are here, then leave, and I don't like your attitude at all. I don't even feel comfortable with people like you living here, go live in england if you love english so much and seemingly hate russian.

that being said.. I'm east asian born in canada, english is technically my second language since I spoke chinese(taiwanese dialect) at home with my parents, I started learning russian when I was 7 so I am basically fluent in that also.

w.meijerink
15-10-2008, 02:57
=justposting;451983]Am I the only one who is mad about the original post?
Yes you are!


seriously,
Seriously!


if you replaced the word 'russian' with 'gay' it would look like a homophobic post.
Yep but there was written "russian" and not "gay", so we are still russianphobic in this post.


if you don't like the way things are here, then leave, and I don't like your attitude at all. I don't even feel comfortable with people like you living here, go live in england if you love english so much and seemingly hate russian.
Yes your right................
We expat don't know where to go so please don't take our last attitude.
We feel ourself comfortable (other tables are welcome too) but we prefer a bar.


that being said..
It are your words.


I'm east asian born in canada
:duhhhh: I see, China, Japan, Hongkong etc. are province of Canada:11629:
:shame:I didn't know SORRY:shame:


english is technically my second language since I spoke chinese(taiwanese dialect) at home with my parents, I started learning russian when I was 7 so I am basically fluent in that also.

Your Welcome.
:10806:

Bels
15-10-2008, 20:41
Is English your mother tongue? If not what is your first language?

My guess is that better than 70% of the posters on *Expat*.ru are Russians.

Russians are just fine and dandy, but don't try to fool us with your wonky English, a native speaker can spot it a mile away. Russian phrasing into English is a dead giveaway. Preposition misuse ditto. Don't pretend you're from South Africa because we all know that isn't English anyway.

Native Russian speakers for all their training and education and practice cannot hide the fact, try as they might, that English is NOT their native language. Give it up 'ppl', we can see right through you. Or smthng.

Come out of the closet. Admit you're Russian. You think you can hide it but you can't.


Quoted above is the original poster's post. What's wrong with it? Yes! yoa can disagree, and yes! many might disagree. But what's there to be annoyed about?

If you are native of a particular language, culture, colour, and where your parents or descendants has nothing to do with it. It only has to do with what your native tongue. Some people are lucky enough enough to have even be tri-lingual, due to being of mixed cultural families, and I envy them as they could make a fortune in professional employent. When being fluent in three language growing up, they will be proficient in learning other languages. Very profitable indeed, in todays world. What a great future these people may well have.

blueblue
15-10-2008, 23:07
I really didn't understand the original post. Was it suggesting people were ashamed of not being a native English speaker? Or that a lot of site users are pretending to be native English speakers?

Anyhow, most of the people visiting the site say English is their first language. However, after visiting England, I have to admit that "American" is my native tongue!! ;)

privet2009
17-10-2008, 23:42
dunno larrrrr its doin' me 'ead in.... but boss post chuck....*

*Scouse

I won't even attempt brummie....

blueblue
19-10-2008, 04:08
actually, I should have said my native tongue is UH-MURRIKIN!

:P

MickeyTong
19-10-2008, 06:31
I won't even attempt brummie....

Thank God for that....

Adamodeus
21-10-2008, 04:59
Quoted above is the original poster's post. What's wrong with it? Yes! yoa can disagree, and yes! many might disagree. But what's there to be annoyed about?
I can tell you what my problem with it is: the gist of the message is "expat.ru for expats" and for no other reason but the name. It just sounds a little too close to "Germany for Germans" or "Russia for Russians" - and that's a little too close for comfort.

As you've already pointed out, there are truly bilingual and trilingual people out there. Moreover, it's really a non-issue. The original post suggests that lots of Russians pretend to be native speakers to get on the forum, but Russians aren't barred from participating in the first place. I haven't met anyone here "from South Africa" to begin with. Who are all those Russians, claiming to be native English speakers? You have been on this forum for a while - can you actually think of one instance when a person intentionally pretended to be a native speaker to confuse you? I can't.

w.meijerink
21-10-2008, 12:26
I really didn't understand the original post. Was it suggesting people were ashamed of not being a native English speaker? Or that a lot of site users are pretending to be native English speakers?

Anyhow, most of the people visiting the site say English is their first language. However, after visiting England, I have to admit that "American" is my native tongue!! ;)

Lucky you, as for me the first time I visit England, it was in 1978 just after my exam and I thought my English was perfect (9+ on school exam) and want the tast the real English way of live.

Ok, till "Hello sir" they understand me in London but for the rest forget it.
So after a few days I was going home with a big illusion about my English.

So please never make the big mistake to rent a hotel in Cockney-London.
Now I know that you has to be born within hearing distance of the bells of St. Mary Le Bow to understand them. :groan:

http://www.viajarlondres.info/images/St_Mary-le-Bow.jpg

Ody
21-10-2008, 21:01
Lucky you, as for me the first time I visit England, it was in 1978 just after my exam and I thought my English was perfect (9+ on school exam) and want the tast the real English way of live.

Ok, till "Hello sir" they understand me in London but for the rest forget it.
So after a few days I was going home with a big illusion about my English.

So please never make the big mistake to rent a hotel in Cockney-London.
Now I know that you has to be born within hearing distance of the bells of St. Mary Le Bow to understand them. :groan:

http://www.viajarlondres.info/images/St_Mary-le-Bow.jpg


:iagree:
I hadn't such problems in London but in Scotland and Wales it was really hard to communicate at least first days.
Thanks God I can quickly adapt)))

is4fun
21-10-2008, 21:29
Am I the only one who is mad about the original post? seriously, if you replaced the word 'russian' with 'gay' it would look like a homophobic post.

if you don't like the way things are here, then leave, and I don't like your attitude at all. I don't even feel comfortable with people like you living here, go live in england if you love english so much and seemingly hate russian.

that being said.. I'm east asian born in canada, english is technically my second language since I spoke chinese(taiwanese dialect) at home with my parents, I started learning russian when I was 7 so I am basically fluent in that also.

'Do you speak Gay as a first language?' HuH? That does sound like a homophobic post! How do gay people speak? :)

Do you live in Russia? I would like some lessons in chinese. Are you a teacher? :) I do not mean to destroy the thread only I did not understand the comment and had an extra request at the same time. :)

Bels
22-10-2008, 23:00
:iagree:
I hadn't such problems in London but in Scotland and Wales it was really hard to communicate at least first days.
Thanks God I can quickly adapt)))

If you didn't have any problems in London or the south east of London then you have done very well. To adapt to Scotland is no problem by comparison to Scotland, especially in Glasgow or Edinburgh, as it a lot easier than the south. They if educated speak a lot clearer in Scotland, especially for Russian, of where there similar sounds such as "Lochlomand" Now can a southerner say Loch or do they say lock :) Only Scoots, Russian and German have such pronounciation. Achtung!

To adopt in the first five days in another accent is very good, it's about as good as a British native, and it rakes longer with an American, although I do believe the adapt much quicker than someone speaking English as a second language. So yes! you have done very well if it'syour second language.

My wife is doing translation of American telivision programmes , and it's doing her head in :) There is one coming up soon, something with Justice, as I can't remember the full title at the moment, but it's about Americans fighting in Iraq, , and no mention of the 120,00 Brits who were also fighting in Iraq. just the about 240,000 Americans fighting in Iraq. But I think she will do a good job in translations, as she only had only about 12 questions for me.

Anyway the programme will be here soon, wife thinks it's too violent, but it I think it's ok, and enjoyable. Let's see.

MickeyTong
22-10-2008, 23:11
They speak a lot clearer in Scotland...

Aye, tha'll be reet, Jim.

301 Moved Permanently

Ody
22-10-2008, 23:45
If you didn't have any problems in London or the south east of London then you have done very well. To adapt to Scotland is no problem by comparison to Scotland, especially in Glasgow or Edinburgh, as it a lot easier than the south. They if educated speak a lot clearer in Scotland, especially for Russian, of where there similar sounds such as "Lochlomand" Now can a southerner say Loch or do they say lock :) Only Scoots, Russian and German have such pronounciation. Achtung!

To adopt in the first five days in another accent is very good, it's about as good as a British native, and it rakes longer with an American, although I do believe the adapt much quicker than someone speaking English as a second language. So yes! you have done very well if it'syour second language.

My wife is doing translation of American telivision programmes , and it's doing her head in :) There is one coming up soon, something with Justice, as I can't remember the full title at the moment, but it's about Americans fighting in Iraq, , and no mention of the 120,00 Brits who were also fighting in Iraq. just the about 240,000 Americans fighting in Iraq. But I think she will do a good job in translations, as she only had only about 12 questions for me.

Anyway the programme will be here soon, wife thinks it's too violent, but it I think it's ok, and enjoyable. Let's see.

Thanks,
I'd never have problems with understanding, only with speaking))))))) Sometimes I have such thing as a language barrier. I can understand british accents,but sometimes can't understand american at all.
Maybe you're right about Scotland,because my tutor always told me that my accent is scottish))) and if i need BBC english it'll takes me too long))))

Actually english is my third language... First 5 years I used french and russian.
As for that programme, i'm not amuzing at all. The same situation with World War II, each country have its own opinion and its own views at history textbooks)))

TGP
30-10-2008, 00:27
Quoted above is the original poster's post. What's wrong with it? Yes! yoa can disagree, and yes! many might disagree. But what's there to be annoyed about?

If you are native of a particular language, culture, colour, and where your parents or descendants has nothing to do with it. It only has to do with what your native tongue. Some people are lucky enough enough to have even be tri-lingual, due to being of mixed cultural families, and I envy them as they could make a fortune in professional employent. When being fluent in three language growing up, they will be proficient in learning other languages. Very profitable indeed, in todays world. What a great future these people may well have.


Not to be annoyed but surprised. Russian members of the site write in their profiles they are from Russia, hence, native Russian speakers. They write about it in their posts. They do not make a secret out of it.
I really don't see the reason why I, or anyone else, should be sitting in the closet hiding my origin.

pjw
30-10-2008, 00:36
Not to be annoyed but surprised. Russian members of the site write in their profiles they are from Russia, hence, native Russian speakers. They write about it in their posts. They do not make a secret out of it.
I really don't see the reason why I, or anyone else, should be sitting in the closet hiding my origin. Eto pravda TGP! Time to get out of the closet and lock the door behind you :ninja:

hazelnut
30-10-2008, 01:09
Right Pete! hide your origin in the closet, then get out of there and lock the door behind you! :devilish:
P.S. Like your avatar, you look so primordial in it!

pjw
30-10-2008, 01:13
Right Pete! hide your origin in the closet, then get out of there and lock the door behind you! :devilish:

:voodoo:What do you mean Hazy? Whose closet do you think I'm hiding in? :eh:

hazelnut
30-10-2008, 01:33
:voodoo:What do you mean Hazy? Whose closet do you think I'm hiding in? :eh:
sorry Pete... I just thought it was a funny thing to do, kinda practical joke: you're hiding your origin in the closet, then get out and lock it there, it's in and you're out, hihi, you're free and it's locked, are you following my thoughts' thread? but it's important indeed first to examine whose closet it is, I mean, it is important from the geopolitical standpoint, sorry, dear, I fell I'll better go sleep before it's toooo late... :nut::nut::nut:

pjw
30-10-2008, 01:35
sorry Pete... I just thought it was a funny thing to do, kinda practical joke: you're hiding your origin in the closet, then get out and lock it there, it's in and you're out, hihi, you're free and it's locked, are you following my thoughts' thread? but it's important indeed first to examine whose closet it is, I mean, it is important from the geopolitical standpoint, sorry, dear, I fell I'll better go sleep before it's toooo late... :nut::nut::nut:

Too many closets, not enough time Hazy. I follow you. Anyway I wrote Hindi language as mine. Were you the other Hindi person Hazy? :rasta:

hazelnut
30-10-2008, 01:40
I didn't vote, but now that you asked I feel more and more hindi :reindeer:

pjw
30-10-2008, 01:42
I didn't vote, but now that you asked I feel more and more hindi :reindeer:

Me too Hazy. Cool. It means we're absolutely free and people can't categorise us. Nobody can put us in their precious little boxes. We're the free rangers :ninja:

hazelnut
30-10-2008, 01:47
yeah, we're staying out of any range, you know what we are? we are outrangeous! :fireworks:

pjw
30-10-2008, 01:56
yeah, we're staying out of any range, you know what we are? we are outrangeous! :fireworks:

Yeah right on Hazy. Nobody can categorise us, describe us or control us. We're the new breed. Original, unique. The others say where they come from. That's ok. We only see where we're going. Into the unknown.....:mml: the paths untrodden, new ways, new things, new experiences. Where we come from is immaterial. It's a cool way Hazy........... :agree:

TGP
02-11-2008, 20:23
Yeah right on Hazy. Nobody can categorise us, describe us or control us. We're the new breed. Original, unique. The others say where they come from. That's ok. We only see where we're going. Into the unknown.....:mml: the paths untrodden, new ways, new things, new experiences. Where we come from is immaterial. It's a cool way Hazy........... :agree:


Reverting to the closets: they say that everyone has some skeleton there. Is it somehow connected with our origin? :eh?:

Bels
02-11-2008, 20:37
I would like to ask the thread writer who he thinks are hiding their identity in regards to what their first language is, because to be honest with you I don't know of anyone. Russians of whom are good at English as a second language appear to be rather proud of the fact that they are communicating with native speakers here, and have satisfaction when they can debate and argue with them to a good standard, but they proudly state that they are communicating in English. Not only Russians, but Italians, Germans, and especially Dutch and Americans are doing extremely well :)

Katisha
05-11-2008, 14:41
Hello everyone, it is my first post to hang on expat.ru :neiner:
It woold be a surprise for an author of this thread to find out, what a bucket of sweat one Russian has to give away to serve properly dozens of expats from both English-speaking and not-English speaking territories, willing to earn their wages on export-to-Russia field.

Though this discussion is mostly communicative, could you please give a native Russian-speaker a sigt of a real tip:

I would be verry pleased if you could hand me to an internet or expat.ru source, where one or few kind :thumbsup: English natives could proof a combination of words in translation I do, or a phrase I use often, or a slight thougt comming through, and give verdict, am I a complete dull or there is still a piese of hope.
If you at least undestand Russian, the idea is close to the following:
Learn English! (http://community.livejournal.com/ru_learnenglish/)

but i need a native English-speaking blog or group of people. Thanx :respect:

tonyshi45
09-11-2008, 13:47
One quick question, if I were to originate from an Asian country, say, Malaysia, and have been speaking English my whole life (used both at home and in school). English is also used in our everyday conversations. Would you call me a native English speaker? Would you say English is my mother tongue? I'm rather confused upon this matter as, recently someone pointed out that, "you're not a native English speaker if you're not equipped with an American/British accent."

I come from a country with a very high immigrant status , mainly from asian countries , I agree with msbella , most of these people have English as a first langouge but becuase of there home life and mixed langouges at home there English is often mixed , and some of there families have lived in my home country for 20 or more years ,
I have a 5 year old son who specks both Russian and English , perfectly and far above his age , his mother has spoken to him in russian since birth and I have spoken to him in English ,
So if he were able to post on here , could you tell if he is russian or English ??
But I think there are probably russians on this post that should not be on here , maybe they have nothing better to do , or maybe there up to looking for a good scam deal , who knows , :10310:

w.meijerink
09-11-2008, 13:52
I see somebody open the toilet doors :groan: who did't???

Maybe the same person will close them now before the smell infect the whole site, because 3 post under this one I still smell it.

Bels
09-11-2008, 15:13
I think some on this thread have a misunderstanding of what this forum is about. Read the opening lines of expat.ru. A forum for all expats in Russia, and English speaking Russians. Or something on that line. Due to their local knowledge some of them have been helpful and useful with their advice and information. There is also a section on this site for those who want to communicate in another language, including Dutch and Russian for example.

Bels
09-11-2008, 23:07
I believe this forum is for all, Expats of any country most certainly, and yes in the main part of the forum it should be written in English by all nationalities. I have not found members hiding their identities, but their might be a few exceptions like in all forums. To be honest in general all regular members here are truthful about their identity and nationality, that's what I believe in reading many posts here. To be fictional I can't see the point in bothering in such a thread, but yes a minority might play around, that's the way it is in a forum, and it's up to your intellect to judge what is what.

But I will say again , this forum appears to be honest with the regular memmbers here. I must admit I trust the ones here who have many posts to contribute here, and for the time being mistrust the small posters. However some of these posters develop to be well trusted friends, whether they are Russian, Durch, American, Italian, Canadian or whatever.

I think that this forum is all about being together, and giving advice freely as and when someone needs it. We are not here for profit, however if we find individuals who honestly want a business of something , or perhaps a partnership business, and that they are honest and open about it, well yes I have a soft spot for these people. Being a small business in Russia is tough, especially for an expat. And I care about people in this are. I also care about those wha have family here, whether mixed with Russian or expats from let's say America or Britain who have chosen to start a life here. Yes! I will try let them know what I know, and hope that the other more experienced in that particular also participate. And when they do, that is when I give my thanks, to those that I believe give a valid and constructive post.

ezik
09-11-2008, 23:36
Yes, I'm aware of that.

My point is that more Russians who 'speak English' than expats use this site. I also realize that an expat in Moscow could come from any of 235 or so countries.

Still it remains that the vast majority of posters here on Expat.ru are Russians.

Russians who would have us believe that in fact they are not Russians. What I'm saying is that (a) it's impossible to hide the fact that you're not a native English speaker and (b) very few expats seem to use this site. That's all.

Maybe it should be called "Hodge Podge For People Who Live In Moscow Very Few Of Whom Speak English As A Native Language"?

I just read this old post and it makes me laugh!

Yes, few of us speak English as a native language, and as we're all taking a common interest here, NATIVE English is not a requirement, nor something we're trying to achieve.

I've been speaking English on a daily basis for over 10 years. Yet, I'm not close to being a native English speaker. My accent is too strong and my grammar is too poor.

With me, there are literally thousands of members who do not speak or write perfect English. Do we care? No!

English is a language that can be easily learnt by most people. English gives us a common language to communicate. And that's just fine with a site that wants to unite expats off all kinds and Russians of all kinds.

Oh, and the statistics mentioned in the beginning of this thread are absolutely irrelevant and quite wrong as well.

Korotky Gennady
11-11-2008, 02:10
You are misunderstanding my point.

It is not than non-native English speakers make mistakes. It is the fact that this website bills itself as a place for expats.

When the vast majority of posters here, in fact and indeed are not expats.

I see that as misrepresentation.

And yes, misrepresentation is bad manners.:)

Ghostly Presence
14-11-2008, 11:50
Yes, I'm aware of that.

My point is that more Russians who 'speak English' than expats use this site. I also realize that an expat in Moscow could come from any of 235 or so countries.

Still it remains that the vast majority of posters here on Expat.ru are Russians.

Russians who would have us believe that in fact they are not Russians. What I'm saying is that (a) it's impossible to hide the fact that you're not a native English speaker and (b) very few expats seem to use this site. That's all.

Maybe it should be called "Hodge Podge For People Who Live In Moscow Very Few Of Whom Speak English As A Native Language"?

Here is a suggestion for you to ponder on: perhaps the reason why the majority of posters here are Russian is because....(prepare for a major eye-opener!)... you are in Russia!!!
Hope that helps! ;))

Ghostly Presence
14-11-2008, 11:55
You are misunderstanding my point.

It is not than non-native English speakers make mistakes. It is the fact that this website bills itself as a place for expats.

When the vast majority of posters here, in fact and indeed are not expats.

I see that as misrepresentation.

And yes, misrepresentation is bad manners.

There's something wrong with you girl... If someone offends you by vurtue of their nationality, create your own website where you can happily mingle only with your friends. That is if you have any...

Clean32
14-11-2008, 15:22
WOW i see this placed hasint changed LOL


Now Girl, think about this!
A large majority of Good info. Comes from the English speaking Russian Members of this site. Even to the point of Russian members researching topics to help out us English.
Personally I think your opening post was uncalled for.
The trade off is they get to see The English language in use from all over the world and thatís a good thing. I would even go as far to say that the hallmarks of a native English speaker is the ability to understand with all the worlds English accents, where a learned English speaker is confined to BBC or CNN English.
I would also guess that just as a native Russian speaker can understand all Russian speakers from all the former CCCP countries (and ID where they are from) where a learned Russian speak could not.

Now as to people pretending to be what they are not. Would you have the same conversation comments to make? No preconceptions if you were to know that the other party was Russian? I very much doubt that.
Having said that, if some one was pretending to be English for some immoral reason IE pick up chicks. And letís face it. In some social circles the English language is a quick trip to the bedroom. And if you have been a victim of such a deception then I would recommend you report such a poster to the mods.

NB back in Jan (I think)
NB 2, how usually, I only read the first page before posting.
NB 3, a Malay English speaker is a native English speaker, although not recognized as such by the RF government. Neither is New Zealand for that matter.
NB 4, although I donít like or believe that only BBC or CNN English should be regarded as the only English. There must be some benchmarks.




You are misunderstanding my point.

It is not than non-native English speakers make mistakes. It is the fact that this website bills itself as a place for expats.

When the vast majority of posters here, in fact and indeed are not expats.

I see that as misrepresentation.

And yes, misrepresentation is bad manners.

Clean32
14-11-2008, 15:25
There's wrong with you girl... If someone offends you by vurtue of their nationality, create your own website where you can happily mingle only with your friends. That is if you have any...

Mate you been having lessons?? Brilliant you have improved much.

Ody
14-11-2008, 21:10
There's something wrong with you girl... If someone offends you by vurtue of their nationality, create your own website where you can happily mingle only with your friends. That is if you have any...


You read my mind))))

albertarose
15-11-2008, 17:14
There are also many Russians here on this site who relocated back from foreign countries where they lived/studied/worked for many years (and inherited some cultural traits of the countires they lived). They would like to keep in touch with people who have the similar experiences and establish a new social cirle after being away for so long. I see nothing wrong with this... As to making mistakes in English, it does not make us less intelligent and educated people. At least, many of us speak more than one foreign language:)

Korotky Gennady
16-11-2008, 02:34
There's something wrong with you girl... If someone offends you by vurtue of their nationality, create your own website where you can happily mingle only with your friends. That is if you have any...
Shame on you... you are not an expat, man ! What the hell do you stick to this forum ? :9451:

Korotky Gennady
16-11-2008, 02:36
At least, many of us speak more than one foreign language:)Yeah, many of you speak ukrainian too... :cool:

Korotky Gennady
16-11-2008, 02:43
:uk:

albertarose
16-11-2008, 15:27
You don't have to be offensive, this is not the purpose of this site.

MissAnnElk
23-11-2008, 19:14
You don't have to be offensive, this is not the purpose of this site.

I dunno. Depends on the day, it seems.

(But you're right.)