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robertmf
10-09-2013, 22:48
The Romanov Dynasty in a 60 sec video (http://rbth.ru/multimedia/slideshows/2013/09/06/presenting_the_romanovs_their_lives_in_art_and_objects_29523.html) from the Russian Historical Museum

Alan65
10-09-2013, 23:02
The Romanov Dynasty in a 60 sec video (http://rbth.ru/multimedia/slideshows/2013/09/06/presenting_the_romanovs_their_lives_in_art_and_objects_29523.html) from the Russian Historical Museum

On my first visit to Russia, I will admit that I only went there as a flight to Thailand got cancelled, I expected lots of concrete buildings, yes you do get them in the suburbs....but....

I loved the Armouy, the girl that took me there was a member of the communist party and is passionate about Russia.

I loved a lot of the exhibits on display that go from East to West and North to South, I loved the history that is on display in the Armoury, not being a fan of religous art I can not say I liked the Hermitage.

But and this is the big but, I would love to see a Russian royal family in the same vein as teh British Royal Family, I am sure Russia could put on a good didplay that is far better than Putin....obviously it would have to be a Royal family that moved with the times but a Royal family is a link between the past and present.

Unfortunately ....it has gone.

robertmf
11-09-2013, 00:23
:queen:
Romanov Family Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jack17
11-09-2013, 01:31
I'm always surprised how nonplussed most Russians are about the re-institution of the Romanov dynasty. Gregory Romanov is the Russian Orthodox Church's designated successor to the sainted Nikolai II:

24986

rusmeister
11-09-2013, 02:47
On my first visit to Russia, I will admit that I only went there as a flight to Thailand got cancelled, I expected lots of concrete buildings, yes you do get them in the suburbs....but....

I loved the Armouy, the girl that took me there was a member of the communist party and is passionate about Russia.

I loved a lot of the exhibits on display that go from East to West and North to South, I loved the history that is on display in the Armoury, not being a fan of religous art I can not say I liked the Hermitage.

But and this is the big but, I would love to see a Russian royal family in the same vein as teh British Royal Family, I am sure Russia could put on a good didplay that is far better than Putin....obviously it would have to be a Royal family that moved with the times but a Royal family is a link between the past and present.

Unfortunately ....it has gone.

Appreciated your post Alan - just a couple of observations:
1) it took me years to come to a place where I could appreciate iconography. In my younger days, as a young man tramping around Russia and Eastern Europe I found it boring. Understanding what it's meant to represent helps a LOT (and that means grasping theology). For example, the colors of the robes (especially when you contrast, say, Christ and Mary) means something. The haloes, or lack thereof, mean something. If you know what colors represent in the Liturgy, then Rublev's Trinity strikes you in a new way. And so on. When I was 25-35, I didn't get it.

2) What does "move with the times" mean? We ALL move with the times, as in move towards death and go where all times go. I think the idea is one that begs to be both clarified and challenged.

On the idea of royalty (I prefer kings and nations to emperors and empires, and the modern nations approximate the latter in behavior), I agree. I think democracy is only really possible on small scales, and think that "small is beautiful" in general, rspecially when it cones to states and governments.

Russian Lad
11-09-2013, 03:45
Why there is no NO answer in this poll? It is not fair. I think that Nicolas had what he deserved. He basically asked for it.

robertmf
11-09-2013, 04:34
Why there is no NO answer in this poll? It is not fair. I think that Nicolas had what he deserved. He basically asked for it.

Then choose #3 :rolleyes:

expat.ru is not "British" and so the sense of "fair play" does not enter into polls, or Russian life for that matter.

Further complaining is subject to :devil: Article 58

Nobbynumbnuts
11-09-2013, 04:56
....expat.ru is not "British" and so the sense of "fair play" does not enter into polls, or Russian life for that matter........

You're all simply Philistines!! :uk:

Benedikt
11-09-2013, 07:41
The Romanov Dynasty in a 60 sec video (http://rbth.ru/multimedia/slideshows/2013/09/06/presenting_the_romanovs_their_lives_in_art_and_objects_29523.html) from the Russian Historical Museum



Tsar VV? there is no place for another one as long as he will be around. and it seems to me this is still for quite a few years to come.

FatAndy
11-09-2013, 09:59
I'm always surprised how nonplussed most Russians are about the re-institution of the Romanov dynasty. Gregory Romanov is the Russian Orthodox Church's designated successor to the sainted Nikolai II:

Erh... comrade... designated successor... does it mean we have to shoot him as well??!!

Alan65
11-09-2013, 10:23
Why there is no NO answer in this poll? It is not fair. I think that Nicolas had what he deserved. He basically asked for it.

RL...You will get a king when you move to Thailand :D

@ Rus, what I mean by move with teh times is that them should do more than simply portray themselves as a born elite whose only duty is to open a new shopping centre etc and do not have a lot of "hangers on", I think Diana shook up the British monarchy by getting involved in many roles that I dont think really happened before and continues through her children today.

I will also include Harry getting sh!tfaced, smoking a few joints and shagging sorts etc....although Vicy was a bit of a smak head in her day :D

Jack17
11-09-2013, 15:32
Erh... comrade... designated successor... does it mean we have to shoot him as well??!!
You know Andy, as Winston Churchill said, "Russia is a paradox wrapped in an enigma . . ."
Why is it that a people who almost universally disparage 75 years of Communist government seem to admire its most despicable act - regicide?

Jack17
11-09-2013, 15:37
I think Diana shook up the British monarchy by getting involved in many roles that I dont think really happened before

You mean like banging every man in sight (the Queen of Tarts)? I thought that was a rather old royal custom?

Speaking of Harry, who is his father anyway?

FatAndy
11-09-2013, 16:00
You know Andy, as Winston Churchill said, "Russia is a paradox wrapped in an enigma . . ."
Why is it that a people who almost universally disparage 75 years of Communist government seem to admire its most despicable act - regicide?
I don't know who is disparaging.:10600: Me not. As same as admiring the regicide - it was a compulsory act.

Nobbynumbnuts
11-09-2013, 16:04
Jack's just chipped off 'cos he's got a halfwit as a president! :mml:

Jack17
11-09-2013, 16:28
Jack's just chipped off 'cos he's got a halfwit as a president! :mml:
A half wit: hasn't fired a shot; but has a serious proposal to coral all of Syria's chemical weapons.

ISA, if Obama sent you a US Treasury check for $100K, you'd call him an idiot for deficit spending. Nothing any American does would make the anti-US majority on here happy.

Nobbynumbnuts
11-09-2013, 17:08
A half wit: hasn't fired a shot; but has a serious proposal to coral all of Syria's chemical weapons.

ISA, if Obama sent you a US Treasury check for $100K, you'd call him an idiot for deficit spending. Nothing any American does would make the anti-US majority on here happy.

Jack, time to take off the rose tinted specs and smell the coffee.

His proposal to coral Syria's chemical weapons is damage limitations on the back of Russia clearly out maneuvering him.
Look at the US media, practically everyone agrees. His popularity rating has plummeted. He's been made to look an amateur.
He and his team are not even on the same page! Kerry gave a press statement yesterday and clearly said the military strikes would be very miniscule. 5 hours later, in his press statement Obama said the US military don't do pin-prick strikes. Might sound like nit picking, but it's not. They need to be on the same page all the time. If not, the opposition will exploit it. As the Russians did with Biden's daft off message statement.

This is not anti Americanism but justified criticism. We all need better.

Jack17
11-09-2013, 18:23
His proposal to coral Syria's chemical weapons is damage limitations on the back of Russia clearly out maneuvering him.

If you followed news more closely, you'd know this Russian proposal was first floated by Kerry on Monday and Obama said last night it came as a result of his talks with Putin at the G20 Conference.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/john-kerry-in-london-campaigns-for-world-to-support-military-strike-against-syria/2013/09/09/e8ad7a72-193d-11e3-80ac-96205cacb45a_story.html

Why is this plausible? Because, despite their differences and opposing interests, the US and Russia share a deep concern for the fate of what is the world's largest stockpile of chemical weapons. Neither wants these weapons to fall into the hands of radical/jihadist elements in the Syrian opposition.

Essentially, the deal that Obama offered Putin is this: work with us to get rid of his chemical weapons and you can keep Assad.

The problem with your criticism is that it's based on inadequate knowledge and insight.

penka
11-09-2013, 18:30
You know Andy, as Winston Churchill said, "Russia is a paradox wrapped in an enigma . . ."
Why is it that a people who almost universally disparage 75 years of Communist government seem to admire its most despicable act - regicide?

Yes, he also said, If Stalin will start to win, we'll help Hitler and vice versa.

Russians admire the regicide? Mmm, and the British Royal family is still grieving the demise of their close relatives after refusing to give the refuge to the Royal children.

penka
11-09-2013, 18:32
Opps! Is this thread about the Romanovs or the infallible President Obama?

Russian Lad
11-09-2013, 19:17
Erh... comrade... designated successor... does it mean we have to shoot him as well??!!

Yeah, I am wondering, too.:)
Jack, I don't really admire it, but the man was responsible for quite many things, including the massacre of a peaceful demonstration on the Bloody Sunday back in 1905*. If his subjects were living happily they would have supported him, the revolution of 1917 would not have happened in the first place. Watch this short clip to the end, at the end you can clearly see his troops whacking peaceful demonstrants in great numbers with rifles. This is a documentary footage, not a fiction film...

*š€овавое воск€есенŒе - YouTube

Jack17
11-09-2013, 19:46
Yeah, I am wondering, too.:)
Jack, I don't really admire it, but the man was responsible for quite many things, including the massacre of a peaceful demonstration on the Bloody Sunday back in 1905*. If his subjects were living happily they would have supported him, the revolution of 1917 would not have happened in the first place. Watch this short clip to the end, at the end you can clearly see his troops whacking peaceful demonstrants in great numbers with rifles. This is a documentary footage, not a fiction film...

*š€овавое воск€есенŒе - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd6QsiaZCUg)
"whacking peaceful demonstrants" It seems Lenin whacked a few in his day; yet, there is still a mausoleum in Red Sguare with his name on it in gold letters.

It's not just Nikolai II, it's the 300 years of Russian history that the Romanovs represent. I'd say the current antipathy towards a constitutional monarchy in Russia is the result of 75 years of successful propaganda. But it's not my country; it's yours. My country, as the world's oldest constitutional democracy, has no history of monarchy.

Nobbynumbnuts
11-09-2013, 19:57
If you followed news more closely, you'd know this Russian proposal was first floated by Kerry on Monday and Obama said last night it came as a result of his talks with Putin at the G20 Conference.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/john-kerry-in-london-campaigns-for-world-to-support-military-strike-against-syria/2013/09/09/e8ad7a72-193d-11e3-80ac-96205cacb45a_story.html

Why is this plausible? Because, despite their differences and opposing interests, the US and Russia share a deep concern for the fate of what is the world's largest stockpile of chemical weapons. Neither wants these weapons to fall into the hands of radical/jihadist elements in the Syrian opposition.

Essentially, the deal that Obama offered Putin is this: work with us to get rid of his chemical weapons and you can keep Assad.

The problem with your criticism is that it's based on inadequate knowledge and insight.

Read your article again. It was an off the cuff remark as i told you, which the Russians seized upon. Your article confirms this. ;)

Looking weak and indecisive is not an option for the President of the United States. ;)

penka
11-09-2013, 20:48
"whacking peaceful demonstrants" It seems Lenin whacked a few in his day; yet, there is still a mausoleum in Red Sguare with his name on it in gold letters.

It's not just Nikolai II, it's the 300 years of Russian history that the Romanovs represent. I'd say the current antipathy towards a constitutional monarchy in Russia is the result of 75 years of successful propaganda. But it's not my country; it's yours. My country, as the world's oldest constitutional democracy, has no history of monarchy.

Shusev's zicchurat is a historical moment.
Romanovs came after the dark period of internal crisis and foreign occupation.
Nicolas II was not fit to rule. Even a democratic country like yours.
The oldest constitutional democracy bears all the characteristics of a developed monarchy. Local terminology does not change the nature of things.
Propaganda? Definitely. Are you one of the victims?:question:

Jack17
11-09-2013, 20:56
It was an off the cuff remark as i told you, which the Russians seized upon. Your article confirms this.

American Secretaries of State don't make "off the cuff remarks."

You dismiss every evidence of US statecraft as accidental and tout British incompetence as political genius. I'm not arguing with a well informed, let alone, rational person.

Nobbynumbnuts
11-09-2013, 21:10
American Secretaries of State don't make "off the cuff remarks."

You dismiss every evidence of US statecraft.......

Jack, you're killing me!! :D
You are without doubt the most delusional, uninformed member of this or any other web based chat forum in the entire universe!!
(I'll exclude Mars as i don't speak Martian and therefore can't really judge) :p

Read your own press and weep!!

Speaking in London earlier today, John Kerry appeared to issue a long-shot ultimatum to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, suggesting that if he turned over his complete stockpile of chemical weapons within the next week he could avoid an attack from the United States. The State Department, however, would later walk back those comments, saying they were a "rhetorical argument" and not an actual proposal, adding that Assad "cannot be trusted" to take such action.
For a brief period this morning it appeared as though Kerry's off-the-cuff hypothetical would largely remain overshadowed by his curious decision to call any American-led attack "unbelievably small." But that changed this afternoon once Assad and his strongest ally, Russia, caught everyone off guard by suggesting that Kerry's ad-libbed solution was actually workable.
(Wall Street Journal)

PMSL :jester:

Russian Lad
11-09-2013, 21:13
"whacking peaceful demonstrants" It seems Lenin whacked a few in his day; yet, there is still a mausoleum in Red Sguare with his name on it in gold letters.

It's not just Nikolai II, it's the 300 years of Russian history that the Romanovs represent. I'd say the current antipathy towards a constitutional monarchy in Russia is the result of 75 years of successful propaganda. But it's not my country; it's yours. My country, as the world's oldest constitutional democracy, has no history of monarchy.


This thread isn't about Lenin, is it? Romanov also rests in an honorable resting place in the center of my city, with quite many other Russian tzars, so what? He was still a murderer and a weak/unfit ruler. I don't see any propaganda in the clip I posted, just unarmed people getting murdered in cold blood upon the direct order of Nicolas-II. By the way, back then they came not to protest, but to support him, thinking that he was unaware of what was going on in the country.
Speaking about post-mortem splendor, Nicolas also rests surrounded by gold and what not, take a look below...
So, you were saying?

Alan65
11-09-2013, 21:21
You mean like banging every man in sight (the Queen of Tarts)? I thought that was a rather old royal custom?

Speaking of Harry, who is his father anyway?

Jack...I was hoping you could help me on that one but being a ginger it must rule out a fair few people, are you a ginger:

Nobbynumbnuts
11-09-2013, 21:23
Jack...I was hoping you could help me on that one but being a ginger it must rule out a fair few people, are you a ginger:

Jacks's a ginger beer? :10475: :D

Judge
11-09-2013, 23:18
Opps! Is this thread about the Romanovs or the infallible President Obama?

Yeah, there are enough threads already about Obama in the CA forum,let's try and keep this one free of Syria and Obama.

btw which ones Pink?
12-09-2013, 03:10
"My country, as the world's oldest constitutional democracy, has no history of monarchy.

Now I see what the problem is with you. You dont know what your own type of government is or the importance of distinguishing between a republic and a democracy. Or are you just pretending not to know?

The US is not a constitutional democracy but a constitutional republic. The fact that you use these type of words is very telling about your faulty and dangerous worldview. Your terminology is something that I hear some
ignorant GLBT activists use, who had obviously never read the Constitution and dont intend to.
I wouldn't expect that from a supposed American patriot.

A heads up for all, particularly Russians here who are trying to make sense of all this....the word "democracy" does NOT even appear in the US Constitution.
And there is a very good reason for that.

Because the the Founders were afraid that the American Republic would morph into the type of government that world go around the world sticking their nose in everybody's business and bombing people for their own good. Just like Jack here and his buddies in the White House are "hot to trot" for these days!

It is THAT attitude that has made the US a threat to the world including every Russian and also any American who believes in the Constitution of his Republic.

At this very moment Americans are struggling to keep their REPUBLIC a republic but unfortunately we have people who think like Jack and Obama and a lot of members of Congress who are currently bringing in laws that will make true American patriots outlaws.

You probably really already know all this Jack....but that little Freudian slip has given you away, so you can stop pretending now!

Jack17
12-09-2013, 03:55
Jack...I was hoping you could help me on that one but being a ginger it must rule out a fair few people, are you a ginger:
Oh, from your lips to God's ears Alan! No, I had no carnal relationship with the late Princess Diana; in fact, I had no relationship with her of any kind. But it's a lovely idea. hot Hot HOT!!!

Anyway, I never was a ginger; but that wouldn't prove anything anyway since I believe the red hair is derived from the Spencers.

Jack17
12-09-2013, 04:02
Now I see what the problem is with you. You dont know what your own type of government is or the importance of distinguishing between a republic and a democracy. Or are you just pretending not to know?

The US is not a constitutional democracy but a constitutional republic. The fact that you use these type of words is very telling about your faulty and dangerous worldview. Your terminology is something that I hear some
ignorant GLBT activists use, who had obviously never read the Constitution and dont intend to.
I wouldn't expect that from a supposed American patriot.

A heads up for all, particularly Russians here who are trying to make sense of all this....the word "democracy" does NOT even appear in the US Constitution.
And there is a very good reason for that.

Because the the Founders were afraid that the American Republic would morph into the type of government that world go around the world sticking their nose in everybody's business and bombing people for their own good. Just like Jack here and his buddies in the White House are "hot to trot" for these days!

It is THAT attitude that has made the US a threat to the world including every Russian and also any American who believes in the Constitution of his Republic.

At this very moment Americans are struggling to keep their REPUBLIC a republic but unfortunately we have people who think like Jack and Obama and a lot of members of Congress who are currently bringing in laws that will make true American patriots outlaws.

You probably really already know all this Jack....but that little Freudian slip has given you away, so you can stop pretending now!
Any success Mr. Pinkman in locating a good GED program? I'm sure any accredited GED program will have a civics section which will help you understand the difference between a representative democracy, i.e., the US, UK and France, and a direct democracy such Periclean Athens. Good luck in your search!

robertmf
12-09-2013, 04:14
Anyway, I never was a ginger; but that wouldn't prove anything anyway since I believe the red hair is derived from the Spencers.

:whisper: I think the limeys mean "ginger beer" in the sense of near beer => soft, no kick.

btw which ones Pink?
12-09-2013, 05:46
Any success Mr. Pinkman in locating a good GED program? I'm sure any accredited GED program will have a civics section which will help you understand the difference between a representative democracy, i.e., the US, UK and France, and a direct democracy such Periclean Athens. Good luck in your search!

YOUR poor choice of words got you in trouble, not mine! So far I have only seen subversives and ignorants use your terminology. I haven't decided which one you are yet.

rusmeister
12-09-2013, 06:46
It is hard to make government representative when it is also remote. ILN, 8/17/18

"The modern representative not only does not represent his constituents - he does not represent even himself."
GKC

Sadarr
13-09-2013, 00:01
Jack, shame on you for not understanding what or why your beloved country was founded as a republic. You are trolling or are seriously deluded. As per your usual opinion you are a republican but you don't seem to understand the concept of a republic.

From wikipedia

Sometimes self-proclaimed democratic republics really aren't: examples include the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) and the Democratic Republic of North Korea. However, a government can label itself whatever it desires.

So again have a look at the US constitution and try to understand why "democratic" isn't mentioned.

Jack17
13-09-2013, 00:37
Ah, I see, a Wikipedia educated Canadian.

You know, sometimes with the general education of people on this site, it's embarrassing being here. It's like trying to have a discussion with people in a work study program for high school drop outs.

I think Yaks was right; time to take a break from this silliness.

TolkoRaz
13-09-2013, 01:11
You know Andy, as Winston Churchill said, "Russia is a paradox wrapped in an enigma . . ."


I think you will find that he actually said, ""I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest." :book:

btw which ones Pink?
13-09-2013, 03:11
Ah, I see, a Wikipedia educated Canadian.

You know, sometimes with the general education of people on this site, it's embarrassing being here. It's like trying to have a discussion with people in a work study program for high school drop outs.

I think Yaks was right; time to take a break from this silliness.

Yup..guys like you and Yak run for cover when the lights are turned on.

Nobbynumbnuts
13-09-2013, 03:32
.....I think Yaks was right; time to take a break from this silliness.

You'll find that most people, including many of your fellow countrymen think Obama is a bit of a lightweight on the international stage, who's been out maneuvered.
It's not a view particular to those here on expat.ru......... ;)

Jack17
13-09-2013, 06:42
You'll find that most people, including many of your fellow countrymen think Obama is a bit of a lightweight on the international stage, who's been out maneuvered.
It's not a view particular to those here on expat.ru......... ;)
I'm sure you're correct Nobby, because most people, like you, have no education or experience in diplomacy or foreign affairs. Most, like you, have no idea how policies are derived nor how diplomatic initiatives are forged. That's clear from your analysis, or lack of it, in this situation. Appealing to the views of most people indicates the weakness of your position, not its strength.

Nevertheless, most Americans, as distinct from you, support a peaceful negotiated settlement to Assad's use of chemical weapons in Syria. Unlike your fellow countryman TR and Mr. Putin, at least you accept that Assad did kill over a 1000 of his countrymen. No informed commentator believes the current peaceful negotiations would be happening absent Obama's creditable threat of the use of force. It's a threat that is only a few hundred kilometers away from Assad and one he and Putin are working so assiduously for America to renounce - which it won't. Remember Nobby, only you British have thus far renounced force; we Americans and the brave French have not.

Russian Lad
13-09-2013, 06:50
I'm sure you're correct Nobby, because most people, like you, have no education or experience in diplomacy or foreign affairs. Most, like you, have no idea how policies are derived nor how diplomatic initiatives are forged. That's clear from your analysis, or lack of it, in this situation. Appealing to the views of most people indicates the weakness of your position, not its strength.
Nevertheless, most Americans, as distinct from you, support a peaceful negotiated settlement to Assad's use of chemical weapons in Syria. Unlike your fellow countryman TR and Mr. Putin, at least you accept that Assad did kill over a 1000 of his countrymen. No informed commentator believes the current peaceful negotiations would be happening absent Obama's creditable threat of the use of force. It's a threat that is only a few hundred kilometers away from Assad and one he and Putin are working so assiduously for America to renounce - which it won't. Remember Nobby, only you British have thus far renounced force; we Americans and the brave French have not.

Jack, if the decisions are made and the initiatives are forged by such smart, supremely educated people, why WMDs weren't found in Iraq, contrary to the claims of those premium individuals with sterling diplomatic backgrounds and an awe-inspiring experience?:zoom: I am afraid I am not buying it.

Jack17
13-09-2013, 07:05
Jack, if the decisions are made and the initiatives are forged by such smart, supremely educated people, why WMDs weren't found in Iraq, contrary to the claims of those premium individuals with sterling diplomatic backgrounds and an awe-inspiring experience?:zoom: I am afraid I am not buying it.
Then, if Assad is so innocent, why has he suddenly divulged he has chemical weapons and is willing to place them under UN control?

a) because Putin asked him and he loves Vladimir Putin just as so many Americans do now; or

b) he really did use them; he knows the US knows he used them and he knows the US will destroy his military infrastructure if he doesn't give them up.

Nobbynumbnuts
13-09-2013, 12:11
I'm sure you're correct Nobby, because most people, like you, have no education or experience in diplomacy or foreign affairs. Most, like you, have no idea how policies are derived nor how diplomatic initiatives are forged. That's clear from your analysis, or lack of it, in this situation. Appealing to the views of most people indicates the weakness of your position, not its strength.

Nevertheless, most Americans, as distinct from you, support a peaceful negotiated settlement to Assad's use of chemical weapons in Syria. Unlike your fellow countryman TR and Mr. Putin, at least you accept that Assad did kill over a 1000 of his countrymen. No informed commentator believes the current peaceful negotiations would be happening absent Obama's creditable threat of the use of force. It's a threat that is only a few hundred kilometers away from Assad and one he and Putin are working so assiduously for America to renounce - which it won't. Remember Nobby, only you British have thus far renounced force; we Americans and the brave French have not.

Jack, try a change the day job to spin doctor.
Obama is now negotiating from a position of strength? :D

Of course the American people want a peaceful settlement, they're tired of war.

Let me spell it out for you. THE PRESIDENT WANTS MILITARY INTERVENTION. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DON'T=THE PRESIDENT'S POSITION IS WEAKENED. Get it now? :doh:

Kerry's 'off the cuff' remarks which gave the initiative to the Russians, made the president look a fool were somehow a
very clever, statesman like initiative? jack, you have the pres. you deserve. :D

I know you're very privileged and went to school but i already told you-It's not an option for the President of the Unites States to look weak, indecisive and a lightweight,ever ;)

Jack, if you persist with this sillyness, i'm going to throw all my toys out the pram and leave the site!! :D

Nobbynumbnuts
13-09-2013, 12:30
This one's doing the rounds on the internet at the moment....:D

btw which ones Pink?
13-09-2013, 13:22
Then, if Assad is so innocent, why has he suddenly divulged he has chemical weapons and is willing to place them under UN control?


I told you all several days ago that Assad's good will gesture to turn in his chemical weapons would be turned against him by the pompous criminal minded elitists and used as an admission of guilt, so they would eventually find a way to bomb him. Remember?

That is how it works folks! And that is how politics and diplomacy works.

The intent is to destroy Syria, no matter what Assad does. The only thing that has stopped these criminals is Russia!

Now can you see how one day it is possible that Russia may have to make a pre-emptive strike on the USA?

If that happens, you can thank guys like Jack.

Russian Lad
13-09-2013, 14:50
Then, if Assad is so innocent, why has he suddenly divulged he has chemical weapons and is willing to place them under UN control?

It is rather clear, isn't it? Because Obama said he crossed the red line and obviously was going to bomb him. Wouldn't you do the same, even if you were innocent in this regard?

AstarD
13-09-2013, 15:13
When did Assad ever maintain that the Syrian military had no chemical weapons?

TolkoRaz
13-09-2013, 15:43
.... he knows the US knows he used them and he knows the US will destroy his military infrastructure if he doesn't give them up.

This is precisely why he would not have used them - to do so could have been suicide. He is no fool - after all he has survived over 2 years of Civil War.

Either they were used without his orders or the Rebels used them. :book:

TolkoRaz
13-09-2013, 15:48
When did Assad ever maintain that the Syrian military had no chemical weapons?

He has never denied it. How could he?

The US of A, British & possibly the French have been involved to varying degrees over the years in the production of Chemical Weapons in Syria.

Jack17
13-09-2013, 19:21
Evidence please.

TolkoRaz
13-09-2013, 20:07
Evidence please.

What do you want? Classified papers and manifests?

A simple WWW search comes up with this about the UK:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/uk-companies-supplied-chemicals-to-syria-with-government-permission-before-conflict-8803659.html

Please feel free to look for more such reports............ ;)

Jack17
13-09-2013, 23:46
What do you want? Classified papers and manifests?

A simple WWW search comes up with this about the UK:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/uk-companies-supplied-chemicals-to-syria-with-government-permission-before-conflict-8803659.html

Please feel free to look for more such reports............ ;)
Sorry, I just assumed that you had some specific facts at your fingertips since you leveled a horrendous accusation against my country. Maybe you were getting the US of A confused with the CCCP or the RF?

So, I'll take it from your latest post that you were speaking out of your lower orifice and you have no basis for your accusation against the United States. Not surprised.

By the way, regarding the one article you did provide about the UK, sodium fluoride is what I use to brush my teeth. I suppose by your reasoning, if a country sold bottled water to Syria, then that would be contributing to their chemical weapons production since water is a major ingredient in chemical weapons.

TolkoRaz
13-09-2013, 23:55
Some interesting articles here whether you believe them or not....

http://nsnbc.me/2013/06/15/the-u-s-is-channeling-chemical-weapons-to-al-qaeda-in-syria-obama-is-a-liar-and-a-terrorist/

http://nsnbc.me/2013/06/22/qatar-military-officers-supplied-chemical-weapons-to-syria-insurgents-turkey-was-informed/

Jack17
14-09-2013, 01:42
Some interesting articles here whether you believe them or not....

http://nsnbc.me/2013/06/15/the-u-s-is-channeling-chemical-weapons-to-al-qaeda-in-syria-obama-is-a-liar-and-a-terrorist/

http://nsnbc.me/2013/06/22/qatar-military-officers-supplied-chemical-weapons-to-syria-insurgents-turkey-was-informed/
So, you get your information and opinions from Michel Chossudovsky and his Center for Research on Globalization? This guy would feel right at home on expat.ru since he believes the WTO is an illegal organization and Aristide was an honest leader of Haiti whom the evil Americans deposed.

This guy is a complete kook who should be the must read list for the likes of Nobby, you, Quincy and Mr. Pinkman.

Alan65
14-09-2013, 01:49
So, you get your information and opinions from Michel Chossudovsky and his Center for Research on Globalization? This guy would feel right at home on expat.ru since he believes the WTO is an illegal organization and Aristide was an honest leader of Haiti whom the evil Americans deposed.

This guy is a complete kook who should be the must read list for the likes of Nobby, you, Quincy and Mr. Pinkman.

Jack

Why do you get so agitated about Syria. ...it is simply a place that nobody cared about 2 years ago and nobody will care about in 2 years time.

Jack17
14-09-2013, 02:04
That's a good question. At first I took the "who cares" position; but after a few days of thought, I believe the use of chemical weapons by a government in warfare does matter.

189 countries have signed the Chemical Weapons Convention. Syria has not signed.

It's a crazy, chaotic world; the little order which does exist depends on the observance of certain international norms and implementation of consequences for those states who don't observe them.

btw which ones Pink?
14-09-2013, 05:45
By the way, regarding the one article you did provide about the UK, sodium fluoride is what I use to brush my teeth. I suppose by your reasoning, if a country sold bottled water to Syria, then that would be contributing to their chemical weapons production since water is a major ingredient in chemical weapons.

It is the UK government who knew that is why it is such a big issues now that it has been uncovered.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-07/uk-government-admits-it-allowed-2-firms-sell-poison-gas-making-chemicals-syria

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-uk-government-let-british-company-export-nerve-gas-chemicals-to-syria-8793642.html

It was UK Sodium Fluoride that Saddam Hussein was using too!


btw, I take it you are still drinking fluoride yourself there Jacko ol boy. Recent study from Harvard shows that fluoride lowers the IQ in children considerably.

Jack17
14-09-2013, 06:08
Willy, welcome back!

Now that you're back, when are you going to start talking about the subject in which you are really the expert - girls?

Tell us about your current girl friend(s); everyone would rather hear about your sexploits than your untutored political opinions.

rusmeister
14-09-2013, 07:09
I'm sure you're correct Nobby, because most people, like you, have no education or experience in diplomacy or foreign affairs. Most, like you, have no idea how policies are derived nor how diplomatic initiatives are forged. That's clear from your analysis, or lack of it, in this situation. Appealing to the views of most people indicates the weakness of your position, not its strength.

This is the attitude I would speak against. It is ultimately anti-democratic. It says not to trust the common man, but the wise few; that we need professionals to rule us.
What we need are good men to rule us and conduct our affairs. Diplomacy is simply the art of getting somebody else to do what they don't want to do, or not do what they want to do. A good man will consider what is just or fair for all and propose solutions that others really can see the justice of. A mere diplomat, in his initiatives and maneuvering which seek to serve the interests of one side, will produce ideas that need to be hidden from Wikileaks.
Good men can be common men. They can be presidents, kings or tsars. I'd prefer the president, IF the president actually ruled. But since our presidents today do NOT actually make the decisions which affect wealth and power, a king would do just as well - even better, if he were the power behind his own throne, for we would KNOW who was responsible. As it is, we don't. Our modern plutocracy has learned that by being shy and owning everything under the names of others, they can rule without responsibility.
As long as it's not an emperor or plutocracy.