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Banned 1st
06-02-2004, 03:14
Please don't read if not interested in 1st - Braders collision.

I decided to post it after I was asked by some members about what exactly happened between me and Braders.

I would appreciate your opinion about this story.

A girl complained in "Personals" that she gets insulting replies to her ad. Somebody said: If you're so thin-skinned, don't come to Bardak

I asked: "Is Personals already considered Bardak? Shouldn't posters have some respect in Personals?"

Braders suddenly said: "Everybody stop posting to this thread because it was started long ago, and the original poster doesn't have access here any more" (because Adult folders were made closed).

I said "I think we should let people decide for themselves where to post. It's obviously not the thread's age or if anybody has access to anything that determines the degree of people's interest."

Braders found some insult in my words (?) and said "Very smart comment of yours, 1st! So you think anybody should post anywhere whatever they please without any connection to the topic?? Why then do we have sub-forums anyway like Information, Bardak etc??"

Here's my reply (that I thought over carefully not to hurt Braders feelings any more) after which the whole thread was deleted:

"When people find a particular thread interesting enough to post, it's senseless to try to convince them otherwise. And what's wrong with having an active forum rather than a dormant one?

About people not having access: what if the original poster dies (god forbid) and loses access to all folders, does it mean the issues raised by him automatically become dead too?

What gave you an impression that I'm against the idea of sub-forums? To answer your question "why do we need sub-forums anyway?" - so that people get abusive in Bardak and exercise tolerance in Personals. That was exactly my point in my first post.

It would be very useful if you could give people an option of "No replies" in Personals, it would eliminate all the problems.

What made you worry about "everyone repling to any thread without any connection etc."? - Look: in this particular thread nobody said anything irrelevant, so why do you get upset?"

----------------------------------------------------

To my surprise after this the thread was deleted, I got a PM from Braders basically telling me to "like it or lump it" - "I deleted the thread because you don't see my point (!!)".

I was shocked and said I would post the deleted thread in Information to ask for people's opinion and Braders said: "If you mention my name in Information I'll ban you access, because people go there to ask for my advice"

I said: "OK, I'll not mention your name and will call you "Moderator X who asked that his name is not revealed" Besides, I'll not post any comments, only the actual thread"

After this my membership account was deleted - even though nothing was posted!

I registered it again (however all my PMs were lost and I couldn't search for my old posts any more), but Braders was obviously not satisfied yet and came back to smash me completely. For my new account he banned access anywhere except Bardak where I never had any intention to go.

Does anybody (not intimidated by Braders:-) have any thought about this?

earl
06-02-2004, 04:10
Try not to cry. Get over it.

-earl-

lyndsay
06-02-2004, 10:10
POWER CORRUPTS....

Limitchik
06-02-2004, 10:36
Hon, first of all NO ONE'S interested. You shouldn't be either. It's an internet site. Get over it. How long has it been ? Three or four months ?

Did you ever see the movie "Risky Business" ? There's a great line in that movie: "Sometimes, you just gotta say 'what the ****'"

That's my advice to you. Forget principle. It's a log-in on a social (and anonymous, for crissake) internet site. It's not a place for principle. Talk to me about principle on the spread of HIV, removing landmines and homeless people, not about Braders banning your log-in.

It's not your livelihood (I hope), you've never seen these people, and you're whining about being banned. Toots, you p*****d some people off when you wouldn't let it drop back then. Honestly, I don't know who was right or wrong. But it doesn't matter. Heck, I'm about as liberal Democrat as they come, especially on free speech, but you're so friggin' annoying, I'd like to ban you right now myself.

Think up a new log-in and come back. Let by-gones be by-gones. Look at Broadmoor Bob. He's come back so many times we've lost count, but we love that crazy lug and welcome him back everytime.

I've met Braders, briefly. He's a nice chap. Truly. To suggest that anyone would be 'scared' of him is ridiculous (puny little scrap of a man that he is :) ). Actually, I'm so sure that he's a nice guy, I'd put money on the suggestion that if you dropped this he'd still meet up for a beer with you and you'd both laugh about it.

Really, if the 'principle' of a lost log-in on a small anonymous board bugs you for four months, I'm scared to see how you handle everyday life.

Flame away

Limitchik

J.D.
06-02-2004, 10:41
transfer your membership from the 'FREE' category to the 'PAID' category

ya get what ya pay for

moscowmail
06-02-2004, 12:17
Actually, what you are saying banned1st is a load of crap, you have edited, I saw ALL the PM's...

Grow up, as Limt said, get over it, you really do anoy people with your whining and complaints, seriously, I have had complaints about you in your MANY different logins.

Now, either get over it or leave the site, you are not obliged to stay here.....

As I said before, I have met you, I like you, I really can't understand why you are going on and on and on and on and on and on etc... about this...

That is all I am saying on this matter.

Ghost
06-02-2004, 12:44
Christ...people died today in an explosion in the metro, and you're concerned about a post/account being moderated?

Banned 1st
06-02-2004, 15:45
To Lindsay - that explains a lot:-) if not all

Limitchik (and JD) - it's not a place for principle? May be, but if observing a few basic principles (that I tried to defend) costs nothing but creates a better world for all members, why waste as much efforts as you do on opposing it??

Moscowmail: I did not lie or edit anything.

Ghost, you made a wrong conclusions, check the time of my post. Making innocent people suffer is disgusting. I wish it was never done, neither by terrorists nor by unfair moderators.

Ghost
06-02-2004, 15:48
Banned - I stand corrected. But seriously, this isn't a democracy. You do not pay for this site, therefore you have no rights if it is not run as you would like it to be. Please just let the issue lie. You're not going to overthrow any government here.

Banned 1st
06-02-2004, 16:06
Originally posted by Ghost
Banned - I stand corrected. But seriously, this isn't a democracy. You do not pay for this site, therefore you have no rights if it is not run as you would like it to be. Please just let the issue lie. You're not going to overthrow any government here.

I am perfectly aware of what you say, moreover I said it before you.

Have I ever demanded any rights here or claimed that all taken from me is restored? Heck, keep all my stuff if you want:-) But paid or not paid, I - and everybody else here have the right to have an opinion.

All I ever wanted was to let people know what happened. It took so long because Braders was so much opposed to it. He is a better person now, so I did it. I have nothing to add to the story (for those worried about how long it goes on) and it would end long time ago if I had a chance to post it when I wanted.

If anybody is interested in discussing it, I'll participate. Simple as that. That's what this board is for.

Limitchik
06-02-2004, 16:11
Originally posted by Banned 1st
Limitchik (and JD) - it's not a place for principle? May be, but if observing a few basic principles (that I tried to defend) costs nothing but creates a better world for all members, why waste as much efforts as you do on opposing it??

Are you serious ? Making what better ? Have you noticed that no one else seems to have your problems ? It's you, hon. You're on a lonely pointless crusade. And for what ? At best, to show that a genuinely affable guy made a mistake on a completely insignificant Moscow website ? Really ! It's not an ideal I'd brag about.

People are opposing YOU, not some crazily misconceived notion of principle. You're obsessed, and you need to learn to sort your priorities in life. Wanna hold a grudge against an anonymous guy on a website ? Fine. I think even that's a little misguided, but when you are the only person out of THOUSANDS that feels compelled to continually refer to what you perceived as a problem, then perhaps it's time to ask yourself the question, "Maybe the problem lies in me ?"

Banned 1st
06-02-2004, 16:50
Limitchic, you are an interesting phenomenon: you post the most numerous and longest replies, but claim to be absolutely not interested. I would prefer that you were indeed NOT interested (for a number of reasons:-)

Ok, a guy made a mistake. But if everybody was silent, he would continue making mistakes forever. If a moderator makes fewer mistakes now, THAT is a better world for us.


Have you noticed that no one else seems to have your problems ? You are the only person out of THOUSANDS etc
Don't substitute. You mean, not many people complain? Be honest, you know as well as everybody else here why it's this way. The very first reply I got in December was "In your place I would better not touch moderators". I was naiive enough not to believe what everybody else knew for sure:-)

Limitchik
06-02-2004, 17:08
Actually, 1st, I am interested. Not in whatever conflict you had, though. I'm friggin fascinated that anyone can make such a big deal about an internet dispute for four months. I honestly think your priorities are terribly skewed.

I'm not "substituting" or exagerrating one bit. I see no posts in your support. You appear to attribute this to some deep conspiracy theory. On Expat ? Woman, you're insane ! I have criticized both Braders and MM (go see my earlier posts as Intourist about restricting Bardak), and, gasp, they didn't kill me yet ! Accept that you're alone on this one, you have a problem and you need to think about what motivates you.

Again, if you really think that this crusade of yours makes "a better world" for us, you're nuts.

Banned 1st
07-02-2004, 00:00
Limitchik, time must be dragging awfully slowly for you in Moscow:-) Check your calendar. It's been MUCH less then four months:-) Besides, I ALREADY explained above why I didn't have a chance to do it earlier. If you are indeed interested in why it lasted till now, how could you miss that part??:)

You see no posts in my support? Check the thread again, besides, I can send you the PMs I got, if the authors agree. Some contain most interesting observations based on personal encounters with Braders etc. Most of them are entitled Strictly Confidential though.

One thing that you may be missing is that there's no real need to support the obvious. This story is as clear as it gets. Again, ALL I wanted is to let people know about this, and it's a pity I couldn't do it in December. Do you need more explanations on "why it's dragging on"? Don't hesitate, tell us once again how friggin puzzled you are over this:)

Great, the fact that you criticized Braders and MM only confirms that my criticizm was justified, and refutes MM's numerous claims that I am the ONLY one who is unhappy with moderators. Thanks for the reminding:)

Missionary
07-02-2004, 05:40
It is a fact that everyone here has a right to an opinion. It is also a fact that:

Braders = Moderator

You = Not

So, that being said, the third fact here is that he has a right to censor your opinion HERE; or anyone else's for that matter.

You act as if your civil rights have been violated, as if a great injustice has been done in the world. Whether the metro explosion happened before or after your complaining doesn't really matter. It is a fact that things like this do happen. If you acted with this much passion about a cause that meant something, you might actually affect some real change that truly DID make the world a better place.

Banned 1st
07-02-2004, 15:14
Missionary, it's a pleasure to read something more or less logical once in a while, thanks!

You are absolutely right, moderator has a right to censor my opinion here. But you also said that I have the right to have an opinion on things - censorship INCLUDED. Or isn't it?

If something takes long time it doesn't automatically mean there's "much passion" involved:) or that "a great unjustice had been done to the world". In this case it's more simple: I tried to end it right there and then as all I ever wanted was to post the thread for everybody to read, but I was threatened and banned. It was delayed against my will.

As for your advice to "act with this much passion about a cause that meant something", are you sure I am not doing anything except writing to the board? You conclusion is based on a very funny presumption that one can have only enough energy to write a couple posts a day:-))

One example since you asked: when I went to the University I wanted to study two times faster than their standard five years. I was told it's absolutely impossible because it was never done in that country, I insisted and finally heard: if only you got a personal permission from the Minister of Education. I got it (a long and complicated story), and also the permission for all the other students who would want to be flexible with the duration of the course.

kniga
07-02-2004, 18:28
Ah, well now! At last you have finally revealed the cause for all your flatulent bombast: "...when I went to the University I wanted to study two times faster than their standard five years." Now, you've managed to make yourself the center of the universe and surely all around you must stand in awe of your intellectual prowess. Well, sonny, just one more lesson for you to include in that heavy academic load you are shouldering: that sack with the fancy erudite embroidery on it is so obviously devoid of the heft of substance that adults are neither awed nor amused by it. You are skateboarding through the Hall of Heroes, those true Knights of Life with dents of experience in their armor. Here, you will find no one you can overcome with your pitiful ostentatious pedantry, so go back to the playground from whence you came and get a clue about real life before you make any more of your quixotic forays into the adult word.

Missionary
07-02-2004, 19:32
Well 1st, I suppose that you have told me. If I had known in the beginning how you freed the oppressed and brought liberty to those students held captive by tradition, I surely wouldn't even have responded to this post. If I had known that your passion had broken down the walls of injustice for students everywhere, I would have surely kept my mouth shut. If I had known that there was somehow a correlation between your epic stand against the stodgy administration at one university and the millions of people that starve to death every year, or the women and children that are raped, murdered or sold into slavery every day, or the genodices that still occur today, I would surely have made myself to look a fool by even addressing you.

However, if your example is your idea of doing something good in this world, I need not elaborate on my point any further as it appears that you have proven yourself a bigger fool than I ever could.

Banned 1st
08-02-2004, 00:23
Mistaken, Kniga. So many beautiful words wasted:-( My purpose of taking University course in two years was just to save time (I was older than a typical student because I was studying in the conservatory before), moreover, I only told very few people about how I was studying: only to those who wouldn't suspect me in "showing off". For this very reason my own parents didn NOT know about this:-)

Missionary, do you realize that the point of your long message is actually that when there's so much suffering in the world we just can't talk about anything smaller than that? "Only after you free the slaves in the whole country can you talk about incoherent moderating". Do you understand that this is far fetched to say the least? I have to withdraw my compliments about your logic:-(

Ok guys, looks like the more convincing one becomes, the more fierce the opposition. Indeed, who would want to beat a dead horse?:-) And who enjoys being proven wrong? So I hope you agree that I should better hold back any further arguments before swearing starts in Expat Cafe:-)

But if you ask for more, I'm always there for you (well, with occasional breaks - when I prove a moderator wrong and get banned:-(

earl
08-02-2004, 00:26
So I hope you agree that I should better hold back any further arguments before swearing starts in Expat Cafe:-)

I think we all agree that we would quite like it if you were to shut up and go far, far away.


But if you ask for more, I'm always there for you (well, with occasional breaks - when I prove a moderator wrong and get banned:-(

This so-called epidemic of bannings has affected, oh wait -- just you. In fact, after being a jerk several times, it seems like the moderators would be perfectly fine with you if you just stopped harping on this. I can see that you unfortunately can post just fine under the "banned 1st" nick.

-earl-

sfjohns67
08-02-2004, 00:42
1st,

I've been following your plight for some months now, ever since the whole ordeal started. I've also read in great detail this current thread, which follows the very same line that your previous who-knows-how-many threads attempted to take. Not once have you or anybody else touched the actual issue at stake:

You are boring the crap out of everybody! Holy mother of god, did your parents have any children that lived? How do you breathe when all you do is yak-yak-yak? Please, I beg you - crawl back to whatever trivial little hole you came from, gather up your buddies, pour yourself a Diet Coke (caffeine-free, please!) and play another few rounds of Dungeons and Dragons.

You're killing us in here.

Banned 1st
08-02-2004, 01:12
Earl and stjohns, there's only one way to agree with my offer to hold back my arguments: hold back yours.

But since you can't stop:-), I must tell you this: when something is offered in good spirit, it's extremely inappropriate if not silly to be rude in responce. The only thing you achieve is turning peace back into war. Are you sure you want the war to drag on?

On earl's second paragraph: what do you mean "I can post just fine under the "banned 1st" nick"?? I have no other way as the original 1st nick is desactivated:-)

Also, if my POLITE attempts to express an opinion about moderating you call "being a jerk", what would you call your own rather unrestrained escapades then?

As for poor sfjohns being bored: next time I suggest you read the name of the thread more carefully as it was specially written this way to protect people like you from wasting their time. Now you are wasting everybody else's time: who wants to read the thoughts of somebody BORED with the subject? Please, it will be better if you leave my thread.

(It's funny, while writing my reply I noticed that sfjohns rewrote his message a couple of times. I see the guy is taking this very seriously:-) Does it mean there's no hope he will leave my thread?:-)

earl
08-02-2004, 02:34
Originally posted by Banned 1st
Are you sure you want the war to drag on?
War? Deranged ravings of an ignorant lunatic?


On earl's second paragraph: what do you mean "I can post just fine under the "banned 1st" nick"??
Since we are suffering through your continued babblings, it's quite obvious that you can post. If the administrators cared, they would ban this nick as well. As well as IP ban, or even block IP ban you. And perhaps even write the administrators of your ISP and ask them to ban you for violating their TOS -- which many are willing to do.


Also, if my POLITE attempts to express an opinion about moderating you call "being a jerk", what would you call your own rather unrestrained escapades then?Reality.

-earl-

vespasian
08-02-2004, 02:35
I hardly ever post to this board, but am so overwhelmed with disgust at how incredibly lame and needy you are (Banned 1st). Is the choir not singing loudly enough for you? Get a life and get a clue!! You are a loser who can not let go of a petty incident so many months ago. This is a free posting board and everybody seems to be in complete agreement that the greater good would be served if you were banned again, just for being such a self-centered, self-serving wanker. Let it go and move on. Look how much of your own energy you have wasted and all you have proven is shown everybody just how pathetic your life is. Let it go guy...

bean laden
08-02-2004, 02:47
.

Moscow Wolf
08-02-2004, 04:17
Well Braders is a Man U fan and he imports suitcase loads of Tesco products and he drinks a lot of beer, so far that's all I can find in his defence plus he's man enough to congratulate a going nowhere team for beating his Champions etc etc etc.

But what I'm worried about here is this, MOSCOW MAIL can you read all my PM's too?

Shite, then you know all about my Vet's treatment for fleas, mange, distemper and me painful jabs against rabies! Is nothing personal on here anymore!

Banned 1st
08-02-2004, 04:45
Earl, you devote the whole paragraph to describing different ways to block my IP etc but you forgot to specify what rules I am breaking:-)

Vespasian, you got so emotional for no reason because you are missing the whole point. All I wanted is to post one single message to let people know what happened. If I wasn't denied the right to do this when I wanted, it would have ended right then. Now I am only answering people's questions. I hope it's OK with you. Or do you still think answering questions is called "being lame and needy"?

You are also missing another thing: the subject of discussion is such that it's dangerous to openly support it. But private support that I'm getting makes me absolutely satisfied.

It's self-centered and naiive of yourself to say "all people here" when you can only see half of the picture.

The only thing that matters to me is that people KNOW, while the amount of PUBLIC support - as well as how much you like me - is so insignificant in comparison that I don't even tell my busy friends to get their lazy asses up, get registered here (for those who aren't yet) and write posts in my support. Be assured they would be as numerous and as rude as yours are:-) (it's not customary in our circles to be rude, but some do it as a hobby, and got really good at it:-) Don't you think it would be the easiest thing to do if I believed, like you do, that right or wrong is proved by the number of posts?:-)

BTW I got a PM telling me that some posters here are actually one person with several nicks. Not that I wasn't suspecting it myself, but it's always better to be sure:-)

I will never stop wondering how strongly people get drawn to what bores them to death:-) Once again I ask you to move your attention to other, more interesting threads. Look how many of them are there:-)

Missionary
08-02-2004, 06:25
1st,

Anyone with more than three active brain cells can well see that was not the point of my post whatsoever. Because my post wasn't blowing sunshine up your butt or somehow revolving around you and your iminent greatness and how important you are to the world (as that seems to be all that you understand), I will take a minute to spell it out for you.

YOU ARE A SELF-CENTERED, SELF-INVOLVED, EGOTISTICAL, SPOILED LITTLE BRAT!

There we go. That should be simple enough for you to grasp. Anything more than that, while entirely correct and I must admit, a bit fun for me, would undoubtedly be wasted on your superior intellect.

earl
08-02-2004, 06:40
Originally posted by Banned 1st
[B]Earl, you devote the whole paragraph to describing different ways to block my IP etc but you forgot to specify what rules I am breaking:-)

Jesus christ. The point was that if the admins wanted you gone they could do a good job of it. Instead, they keep letting you come back. If you came back with a different nick and didn't keep blathering about this topic, nobody would ever know who you are and you could just get on with posting. Is this somehow complicated?

-earl-

Moscow Wolf
08-02-2004, 07:00
And thru all of this Braders is sleeping like a baby on his 15 pints and a 3-4 win over Everton, Yawn!

Braders
08-02-2004, 09:08
But what I'm worried about here is this, MOSCOW MAIL can you read all my PM's too

We can't access PM's Wolf so your deep dark Wolves fantasies are safe for now! ;) i merely gave MM my password so he could have a butchers for himself.

As for 15 pints!, i wish ;)

Was working yesterday night, however i remember recieving a text saying we were 3 up by Half-time, we nearly bloody lost the game as well, i was routing for the Wolves yesterday though.. it was on 7TV LIVE :)

vespasian
08-02-2004, 10:15
In my humble opinion I think you should stop spending so much time writing such laughable responses showing just how egotistical and self-involved you are. You would do better to spend your efforts getting professional help from a trained psychologist ... they could help you deal with the issue of being such a big man in your small mind.



================
All I wanted is to post one single message to let people know what happened.
================
People know and they have voiced their opinions, and view-points (all of which are decidely in unison in telling you to let this go and move on with your life ... but you continue to beat this dead horse).




=================
You are also missing another thing: the subject of discussion is such that it's dangerous to openly support it. But private support that I'm getting makes me absolutely satisfied.
=================
Dangerous to openly support? What drugs are you taking? You really are laughable if you think this is such a dangerous topic and you are a hero for uncovering it and standing up to it. Why don't you spend your time supporting some real injustices instead of nursing old grudges? It is so unbecoming.



=================
It's self-centered and naiive of yourself to say "all people here" when you can only see half of the picture.
=================
Maybe you should read everybody else's responses so you can see the other half of the picture as well.



=================
BTW I got a PM telling me that some posters here are actually one person with several nicks. Not that I wasn't suspecting it myself, but it's always better to be sure:-)
=================
Duh, you are a genious Sherlock. Of course there are people with numerous log-ins. And that is a new revelation for you even though you have been around for a while?



=================
again I ask you to move your attention to other, more interesting threads. Look how many of them are there:-)
=================
Consider it done. Think about reading that line outloud to yourself and move on. Stop thinking you are such an incredible hero for uncovering to all how petty you are for not letting something so trivial go after 4 months. And stop contradicting yourself about how harsh the sensorship is here because of the first incident. As Earl pointed out, if they wanted to silence you they would have already. So, you are not so persecuted as you like to pretend you are.

Sadie
08-02-2004, 10:37
How do you guys feel about a suggestion to stop this nonsense??

Sadie
08-02-2004, 10:40
sorry for interrupting your vitally important argue, just a cute pic to distract you a lil

vespasian
08-02-2004, 10:50
Sadie, you speak words of wisdom... and thanks for the light-hearted distraction.

earl
08-02-2004, 12:27
Do you like dogs?

-earl-

Banned 1st
08-02-2004, 17:25
Sadie, thanks for supporting my suggestion to hold it all back. All the other posters seem to get more and more interested. After my last post there were 100 more views and 9 more posts. Not bad for a boring stuff. Actually, unseen before.

The point was that if the admins wanted you gone they could do a good job of it.

Earl, if the admins don't want me gone it means either the admins are not breaking any rules, or I don't break any rules. Or it can be both.

If you came back with a different nick and didn't keep blathering about this topic, nobody would ever know who you are and you could just get on with posting.

You are not fully informed. I almost forgot about it, but Braders reminded me by mentoning 1st in another thread.

Maybe you should read everybody else's responses so you can see the other half of the picture as well.

Vespasian, when I reminded you of the other half I meant my PM box.

Of course there are people with numerous log-ins. And that is a new revelation for you?

No problem with having multiple logins but it's not nice to use this to create an impression that a crowd is bigger than it is:-)

I now want to once again address those who are not interested. The self-centered and egotistical author of this thread really worries and feels for you. It would save your time and nerves if you just ignore my thread. Go see how many other threads have 0 replies. Try to make at least one post there or the authors will think they are dead boring.

And let those who are interested in moderating read my thread without distraction. Let's respects each other's rights to use internet as a source of information.

moscowmail
08-02-2004, 18:05
On a closing point to the sensible guys, you deserve a reason for why we didn't ban or delete 1st's last load of rubbish.

She has made it clear about how interesting she is..... and it is worth more than banning ALL her logins :)

Banned 1st
10-02-2004, 16:09
MM, it is rather difficult to complain and to entertain at the same time:) Unless I get very abusive, but this is Expat Cafe!

Attempting to make a closing point:

Unfortunately, our world is far from being perfect and fair, but it wasn't created by us so we can't have full control.

But our universe here at Expat is being created by us and it's in our power to make it either ugly or wonderful (sensible guys deserve an explanation here why I didn't delete rude comments of one multiple-login person calling himself "everybody here" by simply reposting my thread: it is a very graphic example of what "ugly" is, and what should not be done).

Our gods in this Universe are Moderators. We adore you for your unlimited powers, we want you to love and protect us:) We want you to be superior, not vindictive or competitive, like we, commoners, are:)