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Korotky Gennady
12-12-2007, 04:12
Guest, you like all others very much praise Putin. So i want to show you the digitals which let you know what the real state of things is.

Germany : 29 200 euro per capito a year

Italy : 25 500 euro per capito a year


Czech Republic: 22 100 euro per capito a year ! Can you even imagine it !?

Romania : 9 700 !

Hungary : 16 200 !

Estonia : 17 900 !

Latvia : 14 900 !

Lithuania : 15 00 !!!

Notice that they have no oil and no gas... Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania are the former soviet republics in the years of USSR the life level there was the same as it was everywhere else in USSR ... I know it for sure becoz I have been there !!!

So what has your Mr. Putin done that you all praise him so much ?

Average pension in Russia is 100 euro a month only... And so it was in time of Elsin and so it is now. Any questions ?

Guest
12-12-2007, 09:20
The reply is easy even if the solution to correct these differences is not:

First: "Average pension in Russia is 100 euro a month only... And so it was in time of Elsin and so it is now."

This is wrong: pensions have been increased a lot since Putin, AND they are now really paid every month. My mother received about 200 rubles in 1997, she receives now 4000. Of course it is nuts even not in Moscow, but do not say there is no difference.

About the average amounts per person now: First, you don't write how much it is in Russia? Anyway:

1- You cannot compare western countries (Germany Italy) with any former CCCP countries. 80 years or so of communism let some tracks...

2- About former USSR countries, they are all SMALL countries and it is a lot easier to develop a small country than a big one like Russia. Take the area of Latvia, and count this area with Moscow at the center. Look at the per person in this area and then you can compare. I am not sure the result will be the same...
Moreover the former CCCP countries got MASSIVE western financial help that they, as far as I know, never paid back. Russia also got help BUT paid it back, even with large advance payments.
The baltic countries also benefit from big Scandinavian investments, and in such SMALL countries with a SMALL quantity of citizens, the result for each citizen is easy immediate.

Why didn't you also compare with countries like Uzbekistan, Armenia, Tadjikistan, etc? Bah, I know why, and you know why also :)

Russia has very strong currency and gold reserves, no other country has such reserve. Western countries have a budget deficit of... Do you know how much? I don't know the amount but it is enormous. Russia hasn't and it is a good point, as living at credit like Western countries do creates irremediably problems one day. No need to talk now about the US deficit, right? France today is very good at this game!

Now I DO agree that pensions, as you are talking about this, MUST be increased a lot. The point is that more you inject money in the economy, higher is the inflation. Maybe you didn't see the last months inflation, my wife can see it every day when she goes to buy food.

So we have to be very carefull by injecting money inthe system. And in this social aspect, Medvedev will probably be a very good president.


You asked what Putin has done, only with economical examples. But Putin has made something BIG in another domain: He made Russia again listened internationally (even if we all know that west listen at Russia only because they want their gas and oil!) and, and it is the most important, Putin brought STABILITY in Russia. And this is very important, maybe hard to understand for foreigners who live in stable countries since 60 years!

Guest
13-12-2007, 21:38
Did I win by KO, Korotky? :)

Korotky Gennady
14-12-2007, 01:54
Did I win by KO, Korotky? :)

No. You fail.. I will write to you again when i find out more statistics data...

dick
14-12-2007, 09:17
Round one goes to Guest!

He is also making Russians feel good about themselves.

look man it this oligarchies who are not making jobs for people here,

Why don't you do something for your country? Start with making some children and teach them they can do anything if they work hard enough.

Look Putin gave his life for his country, and who knows better what really goes on in Russia and the world then someone from the FSB?

What have you done for Russia lately?

Guest
14-12-2007, 09:47
No. You fail.. I will write to you again when i find out more statistics data...


LOL your silence was a proof that I didn't fail. About stat, I am waiting them. Of course you can find stat showing that Russia is "under" the USA or Europe, sure. But about the difference between 8 years ago and now, you cannot find any stat that show that Russia is weaker! Even Kasparov is checkmate on this :)

Judge
14-12-2007, 14:17
[QUOTE=dick;321023]



look man it this oligarchies who are not making jobs for people here,

QUOTE]

Some(oligarchies) are putting their money to educate russians,it's a start and things can only grow from such schools.

Moscow to get new business school: Skolkovo School of Management (http://www.mba4success.com/benews_special_content.php?id=233)

Guest
14-12-2007, 17:17
[quote=dick;321023]



look man it this oligarchies who are not making jobs for people here,

QUOTE]

Some(oligarchies) are putting their money to educate russians,it's a start and things can only grow from such schools.

Moscow to get new business school: Skolkovo School of Management (http://www.mba4success.com/benews_special_content.php?id=233)


Let's say that there is a "famous oligarch" (now sewing socks in a camp for inmates...) who stole a lot of money, then used a part of this money for charities... I am not sure is it very honest...

fenrir
14-12-2007, 19:45
KG does bring up a good point: Why hasn't Russia developed itself better than it has with all the natural resources and the money they have been bringing in? Yes, the Baltic States have been receiving loads of investment money from the West, but so has Russia.

Judge
14-12-2007, 20:32
KG does bring up a good point: Why hasn't Russia developed itself better than it has with all the natural resources and the money they have been bringing in? Yes, the Baltic States have been receiving loads of investment money from the West, but so has Russia.

Rome wasn't built in a day,in the few years Putin has been in power things have got better in Russia,you just have to pop outside Moscow to see this.On my travels to find a dacha i passed and spent time in many small towns and was impressed with what i saw,new coaches,clean and well kept roads,new buildings,shopping centres and people going about their business in a very happy way,it isn't all doom and gloom in Russia.


Just because Russia is getting loads of money from natural resources doesn't mean it's gotta be spent all at once,putting some back for a rainy day will help them in the future.

Guest
14-12-2007, 20:32
Fenrir,

You probably disn't see my reply here (http://www.expat.ru/forum/political-forum/53078-2-guest-ouestion-about-putin.html#post321176) :)

And about the financial help from the West, the Baltic states didn't give it back as Russia did... Russia had even to agree to pay MORE to compensate the interests that western countries won't receive because of the advanced payback!

And once more, there IS a difference between a micro-country as Estonia that licks Western Union to come in, and Russia that wants to stay INDEPENDENT !

Judge
14-12-2007, 20:34
[quote=Judge;321105]


Let's say that there is a "famous oligarch" (now sewing socks in a camp for inmates...) who stole a lot of money, then used a part of this money for charities... I am not sure is it very honest...

I don't know what you're on about.

fenrir
14-12-2007, 21:55
And once more, there IS a difference between a micro-country as Estonia that licks Western Union to come in, and Russia that wants to saty INDEPENDENT !

I kept my response civil, but if this is to degenerate into insults, then we can talk about how much money is lost to corruption, how much is wasted putting worthless prop-driven bombers that not even the Finns are afraid of back in the air, etc.

Estonia may be a micro-country but it also has few natural resources. It was innovative thinking and discipline that turned things around here.

ezik
14-12-2007, 22:10
KG does bring up a good point: Why hasn't Russia developed itself better than it has with all the natural resources and the money they have been bringing in?

Look at Moscow traffic and you see the answer right in front of you. Or try the metro at rush hour.

It's get all, grab all, with no sense of a bigger picture.

Guest
14-12-2007, 22:36
I kept my response civil, but if this is to degenerate into insults, then we can talk about how much money is lost to corruption, how much is wasted putting worthless prop-driven bombers that not even the Finns are afraid of back in the air, etc.

Estonia may be a micro-country but it also has few natural resources. It was innovative thinking and discipline that turned things around here.


I think I was polite, moreover as far as I know you are not Estonian, right?

Anyway:

> how much money is lost to corruption,

Money is never LOST, it just changed pocket :)

More seriously, corruption is a worldwide attitude, even in Estonia. Probably bigger in Russia, yes. That must be fixed and it will take time.

Estonia has a few natural resources? Sea water from the Baltic, probably. The ONLY valuable resource of Estonia is their PEOPLE, who are clever and have a good education, probably that (education) came from the SOVIET educational system: As I wrote in another post, Russia is the FIRST country regarding ability to read for example (2006).

Now, if Estonia was on 11 time zones as Russia, you could compare both countries.

And sorry, I maintain my remark about the licking of the EU from Estonia. But it isn't exclusive from Estonia, don't worry.

Guest
14-12-2007, 22:38
Look at Moscow traffic and you see the answer right in front of you. Or try the metro at rush hour.

It's get all, grab all, with no sense of a bigger picture.


Metro rush hours? from 8AM from 10PM...

fenrir
15-12-2007, 09:33
Whoever fixes the corruption problem in Russia will be doing the country the biggest of favors. Imagine the effect that hundreds of billions of dollars going to the right programs (pensions, infrastructure, etc) instead of various Mercedes and expensive holiday funds.

fenrir
15-12-2007, 09:39
Estonia has a few natural resources? Sea water from the Baltic, probably.

Also, oil shale and forests. It is a small but important list because it gives Estonia the ability to generate electricity and run its boiler plants using its own resources in the event of a gas cut-off from Russia. All major plants can already use these alternative energy sources and by the summer of 2008, all smaller plants will be able to also.

Clean32
15-12-2007, 13:00
Whoever fixes the corruption problem in Russia will be doing the country the biggest of favors. Imagine the effect that hundreds of billions of dollars going to the right programs (pensions, infrastructure, etc) instead of various Mercedes and expensive holiday funds.

Not commenting on the rest of Russia. But Yaroslavl has become very Clean? in the last couple of years. We got a new top cop. And the governor has been strong on the topic. Governor has just moved to the duma and good on him.

Funny when the new top cop hit town, many complained the even wrote to VP there was much in the papers about how he was changing every thing. LOL how usually them that complained were the dirty ones, they are all gone now. much better place now

fenrir
16-12-2007, 13:31
Estonia has a few natural resources? Sea water from the Baltic, probably. The ONLY valuable resource of Estonia is their PEOPLE, who are clever and have a good education, probably that (education) came from the SOVIET educational system: As I wrote in another post, Russia is the FIRST country regarding ability to read for example (2006).

According to the 2006 OECD report, the top three countries in Reading are Korea, Finland and Hong Kong-China. Russia didn't even make the top 15, though Estonia did.

In Math, it is Finland, Korea and Chinese Taipei and Hong Kong-China. The Finns are first again in Science.

Guest
16-12-2007, 17:44
PIRLS report for 2006 is available in full HERE (http://timss.bc.edu/PDF/p06_international_report.pdf) (PDF 44 Mb) and the Pirls site is HERE (http://timss.bc.edu/pirls2006/intl_rpt.html)

You can read an analysis of the report from the BBC (Not especially pro-Russian, you agree?) HERE (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7117230.stm)

You will read for example this:

The Progress in International Reading Literacy Study (Pirls), undertaken every five years, involved children aged about 10 in 40 countries.

Scotland also fell, from 14th to 26th. Russia, which matched it last time, was top of the overall achievement table.

and this:

- The three highest achieving countries in 2006 were the Russian Federation, Hong Kong and Singapore.

About maths I don't know, that is why I spoke about reading. Now, I also know that Estonia is the champion of a few stupid games, as reported in the Guiness book of records!

fenrir
16-12-2007, 18:21
PIRLS report for 2006 is available in full HERE (http://timss.bc.edu/PDF/p06_international_report.pdf) (PDF 44 Mb) and the Pirls site is HERE (http://timss.bc.edu/pirls2006/intl_rpt.html)

You can read an analysis of the report from the BBC (Not especially pro-Russian, you agree?) HERE (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7117230.stm)

You will read for example this:

The Progress in International Reading Literacy Study (Pirls), undertaken every five years, involved children aged about 10 in 40 countries.

Scotland also fell, from 14th to 26th. Russia, which matched it last time, was top of the overall achievement table.

and this:

- The three highest achieving countries in 2006 were the Russian Federation, Hong Kong and Singapore.

About maths I don't know, that is why I spoke about reading. Now, I also know that Estonia is the champion of a few stupid games, as reported in the Guiness book of records!

The OECD report is for 15 year olds, not 10. Which do you think is more important considering 10 year olds are not soon to enter university and the work force? And Estonia outplaced Russia in both Reading and Math. How you injected the Guiness Book of Records in another attempt at insult is beyond me.

Guest
16-12-2007, 19:31
The OECD report is for 15 year olds, not 10. Which do you think is more important considering 10 year olds are not soon to enter university and the work force? And Estonia outplaced Russia in both Reading and Math. How you injected the Guiness Book of Records in another attempt at insult is beyond me.


LOL you really make me laugh! :D Now please can you find the report for the 16 years old students? Because 16 is more serious than 15, right?

You see insult everywhere, aren't you a bit paranoiac? Do you know Mr. Erki Kole from Estonia? He has the Guinness record for telling the most jokes in an hour. Hey, Estonia has clever guys, I agree with you LOL !!!!!:fireworks:
Never saw such a Estonia-Nationalist-yankee! Be careful, if tomorrow Estonians are a bit more nationalist, they will kick your ass and send you back home :D

fenrir
16-12-2007, 22:16
Actually, this information should raise a few eyebrows and be a cause of concern. Obviously, the Russian educational system is doing something right for students up to 10 years old, but then there is an alarming fall. I hope educators there are thinking about how to reverse this situation. Over here, there is great interest in how the Finns are getting such fantastic results.

MickeyTong
16-12-2007, 22:21
In the UK, each year 100 000 people leave school unable to read or write.
BBC News | UK | One in five UK adults 'illiterate' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/811832.stm)