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quincy
08-12-2007, 23:16
In recent days the UK Foreign Secretary has started to prepare public opinion for the possibility of a new European Union taking in North Africa and the Middle East. Algeria is rich in natural gas and the ME as we all know is rich in oil. The EU is technologically advanced but lacking in natural resources. (The US too, is determined lay its hands on oil,gas and minerals under the cover of spreading democracy)Is this the start of a new era of European imperialism?

Korotky Gennady
08-12-2007, 23:24
In recent days the UK Foreign Secretary has started to prepare public opinion for the possibility of a new European Union taking in North Africa and the Middle East. ...


Is this the start of a new era of European imperialism?


If it's true, i think it's so... :ninja::ninja:

The italian army invaded in Livia one time already... And France controled Algeria up to 1963 year...

fenrir
09-12-2007, 15:10
If it's true, i think it's so... :ninja::ninja:

The italian army invaded in Livia one time already... And France controled Algeria up to 1963 year...

And the USSR (aka Russia) invaded Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Finland and Afghanistan. Does that mean Russia intends to go down the imperialist path too seeing how it runs its international relations lately? It makes about as much sense as thinking EU enlargement is about imperialism.

Countries have to apply to join and go through a long and often painful process along the way. They have to really want to join to have the patience to go through it all. It has nothing to do with being invaded, occupied or controlled by a 'superior' power.

SalTheReturn
09-12-2007, 15:40
I am sorry to say this and this is not even my opinion but currently EU is considered the only superpower and yes european imperialism is possible

Hawk
09-12-2007, 15:40
EU does grow into a stronger and becomes the dominant united states of Europe, however Russia and Germany are the major powers within the EU..

USA is stretched to far too many wars, financial crashes and is enslaved to China and Asian control.

Bels
09-12-2007, 16:07
First of all Russia is not in the EU. Secondly Germany is not the only big economical power in the EU. If we are talking about the big three in the EU it,s Britain, France and Germany. Looking at economical statistics Britain is number one.

And it looks like Britain wants to invite its ex Empire into the EU. Or its Commonwealth. That might be Britain's excuse as to why these countries can join the EU. Because the have connections with Britain.

SalTheReturn
09-12-2007, 16:47
EU does grow into a stronger and becomes the dominant united states of Europe, however Russia and Germany are the major powers within the EU..

USA is stretched to far too many wars, financial crashes and is enslaved to China and Asian control.

since when russia is in the EU?:eek:

Korotky Gennady
09-12-2007, 20:42
I am sorry to say this and this is not even my opinion but currently EU is considered the only superpower and yes european imperialism is possible

Why are you sorry then ? :eek:

As a honest man, you just said the truth ! :fireworks:

quincy
09-12-2007, 20:44
Countries have to apply to join and go through a long and often painful process along the way. They have to really want to join to have the patience to go through it all. It has nothing to do with being invaded, occupied or controlled by a 'superior' power.
not any more! Bulgaria and Romania are widely known to be rife with corruption and low on human rights but were rushed in. Turkey still occupies 40% of Cyprus in violation of UN resolutions having kicked out 200,000 Greek Cypriots and moved settlers in their place.Three years ago the UK and others insisted on opening membership talks with it. Even Georgia is being talked of as a possible member. When did Georgia have anything to do with Europe?

Korotky Gennady
09-12-2007, 20:47
however Russia and Germany are the major powers within the EU..


.

Hawk, we are not the member of EU. These b..stards don't want us to be a member of it. They want only our gas nad our oil... but not the russians there.

Bels
09-12-2007, 20:53
Why are you sorry then ? :eek:

As an honest man, you just said the truth ! :fireworks:

Because he was educated in British English. Sorry has many meanings :)
Sarcasm :) I'm sorry to say that you have not passed this interview :) I'm sorry but you are stupid and an idiot :) I'm so sorry, but I don't agree :)

Do you want more examples :)

I just corrected your quote :) sorry

Korotky Gennady
09-12-2007, 20:53
When did Georgia have anything to do with Europe?

Yes ! It is. Georgia is better than Russia for them. You are quite right. And it only shows how much they don't like Russia.

:fridaysign:

SalTheReturn
09-12-2007, 21:02
not any more! Bulgaria and Romania are widely known to be rife with corruption and low on human rights but were rushed in. Turkey still occupies 40% of Cyprus in violation of UN resolutions having kicked out 200,000 Greek Cypriots and moved settlers in their place.Three years ago the UK and others insisted on opening membership talks with it. Even Georgia is being talked of as a possible member. When did Georgia have anything to do with Europe?

it is business, nothing to do with Europe

should these Thirld Worlders give us what we want, their cheap labour but meantime guarantee some decent human standard, we are happy to have them in

soon we will get Kaliningrad in as well

Now, have you ever tried to pose the above bolded question to a Georgian?

SalTheReturn
09-12-2007, 21:04
Yes ! It is. Georgia is better than Russia for them. You are quite right. And it only shows how much they don't like Russia.

:fridaysign:

Europeaness is first of all a feeling, Russians do not have it

PS. never heard that in your political agenda there was talks about entering in the EU

Bels
09-12-2007, 21:08
Hawk, we are not the member of EU. These b..stards don't want us to be a member of it. They want only our gas nad our oil... but not the russians there.

Sorry, but I disagree. We want you when you are ready to apply. We want your oil and gas traded within our rules. But in general Russia is not ready economically apart from 100% dependance on natural resource. Generally Russia is a very poor economical country, except for Moscow. Moscow is Russia as they say. It needs to expand and control the whole of its country. And reading articles from newspapers this is extremely complicated.

Yes Russia with EU. EU is already the most powerful in the world in many economical arguments. But with Russia fully following us as a member USA could not compare with the then United States of Europe. Yes it's a dream, but it might happen in the next generation when I am dead.

Bels
09-12-2007, 21:11
It might happen in your lifetime Gorotsky, as I believe you are very young

Bels
09-12-2007, 21:28
Yes ! It is. Georgia is better than Russia for them. You are quite right. And it only shows how much they don't like Russia.

:fridaysign:

Nonsense, is their any evidence where Russia has even asked to join the EU. For the moment I believe Russia is too proud to join the EU.

But when it happens it will be a massive historical event. Much greater than countries such as Georgia, Tallin, Poland or etc. For the moment Britain was the greatest entry into the EU. Yes they bicker Blah Blah. Perhaps Russia can join in the same manner. As I stated it won't happen in my life, but it might happen in your life Korotky.

Korotky Gennady
09-12-2007, 21:42
And the USSR (aka Russia) invaded Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Finland and Afghanistan. Does that mean Russia intends to go down the imperialist path too seeing how it runs its international relations lately? It makes about as much sense as thinking EU enlargement is about imperialism.


.

I remind you that Britain had India and Birma up to the 1949th year. France invaded and robed Algeria, Tunis, Chad, Guinea, Madagascar, Vietnam, Laos... and so on... Portugal robed Angola and Mosambic even in the end of 20th century. Holland robed Indonesia... Italia invaded in Abissinia and Livia.

Britain even ! :yikes: demanded from the chinise goverment in the end of 19th century that the chinese goverment allows the opium trade on the territory of China. And when the chinese goverment denied it, the british army started the "opium war" against Chinese state... :ninja::ninja::ninja: the war for "free trade of opium" there... ;)


Europian predators divided all the world between each other. Sal if his mother really was from Africa knows it very well.


America as the most young predator came on the path of robbery of other contries very late. And it couldn't get too much... But USA clawed Fillipini and Gavai...

Then USA army invaded to Panama, Nicarague, Guatemala... and so on... :rant:

I know that you was not taught about it in your american school but it's truth.

Only USSR was the single countrey in the world who was against the american and the europenian imperialism. And it was us who destroyd your empiries becoz we always were on the side of the oppressed and the exploited. And the african guerillas asways could get our good old AKs to fight for freedom against you. :wavey:

I think that it was becoz we are russian and Russia was always The Saint Counrey... our ancestors even called our countrey... " Saint Russia". :wavey:

We always were against the imperialism in all it's forms and for the poor and for the exploited of the all world and we always dreamed not to buy and sell the african slaves as your american ancestors slaves-owners did even in the 19th century !... but liberated them. All great russian literature spoke about it.

Korotky Gennady
09-12-2007, 21:48
It might happen in your lifetime Gorotsky, as I believe you are very young

No. I am not very young. I just always thought and think with my own mind not with the other's... :confused:

Korotky Gennady
09-12-2007, 21:52
Nonsense, is their any evidence where Russia has even asked to join the EU. For the moment I believe Russia is too proud to join the EU.


.

No. They don't want us there... it's absolutely clear that they don't. So there is no need for applying to prove this fact. The Europe is very hostile toward Russia.

fenrir
09-12-2007, 22:07
Only USSR was the single countrey in the world who was against the american and the europenian imperialism. And it was us who destroyd your empiries becoz we always were on the side of the oppressed and the exploited. And the african guerillas asways could get our good old AKs to fight for freedom against you. :wavey:

I think that it was becoz we are russian and Russia was always The Saint Counrey... our ancestors even called our countrey... " Saint Russia". :wavey:

We always were against the imperialism in all it's forms and for the poor and for the exploited of the all world and we always dreamed not to buy and sell the african slaves as your american ancestors slaves-owners did even in the 19th century !... but liberated them. All great russian literature spoke about it.

My Russian wife found your post to be very amusing. Come off your high pedestal. I am not saying Russia is better or worse than the West or the US, I am just pointing out that it has its own imperialistic past and it is quite recent. You say Russia was 'always were against the imperialism in all it's forms and for the poor and for the exploited of the all world' but what did it do to Eastern Europe for 50 years? Does Hungary 1956 or Czechoslovakia 1968 ring a bell? What happened in the winter of 1939-40 that resulted in the Red Army getting the cr-p kicked out of it by the Finns? What happened in Afghanistan 1979-88?

Bels
09-12-2007, 22:07
I don't believe a lot of your fact gorotky, where did you get them from ? Opium and connections with opium? NO!

Britain has friendship with china. And was given Hong Kong on a 100 year lease. Yes! that is fact. Recetly in history China demanded Hong kong back after the 100 year lease.By then, then Hong kong was very strong economically and didn't want to join this strange communist country at the time. Many great businessmen have now immigrated to Britain.

But now due to Hongkong's economical strength they have also educated china very well.And now China has changed because of this, and now they are developing very well due to British influence. No! The Brits have close relations with China. Well before the Russians knew what on earth was going on outside their country. That's why the Russians are so poor on History and Geography in the world. they were so involved within themselves. and didn't know what was going on with the rest of the world.

fenrir
09-12-2007, 22:10
I honestly think Russia shouldn't join the EU for its own sake. Russia is a very independently-minded country and will not want to have to bend to ALL the various rules and regulations that EU membership entails (and there are lots and lots). Russia and the US are the true powers in the world and staying out of such unions will keep them that way. The EU is great for smaller countries.

SalTheReturn
09-12-2007, 22:11
I remind you that Britain had India and Birma up to the 1949th year. France invaded and robed Algeria, Tunis, Chad, Guinea, Madagascar, Vietnam, Laos... and so on... Portugal robed Angola and Mosambic even in the end of 20th century. Holland robed Indonesia... Italia invaded in Abissinia and Livia.

Britain even ! :yikes: demanded from the chinise goverment in the end of 19th century that the chinese goverment allows the opium trade on the territory of China. And when the chinese goverment denied it, the british army started the "opium war" against Chinese state... :ninja::ninja::ninja: the war for "free trade of opium" there... ;)


Europian predators divided all the world between each other. Sal if his mother really was from Africa knows it very well.


America as the most young predator came on the path of robbery of other contries very late. And it couldn't get too much... But USA clawed Fillipini and Gavai...

Then USA army invaded to Panama, Nicarague, Guatemala... and so on... :rant:

I know that you was not taught about it in your american school but it's truth.

Only USSR was the single countrey in the world who was against the american and the europenian imperialism. And it was us who destroyd your empiries becoz we always were on the side of the oppressed and the exploited. And the african guerillas asways could get our good old AKs to fight for freedom against you. :wavey:

I think that it was becoz we are russian and Russia was always The Saint Counrey... our ancestors even called our countrey... " Saint Russia". :wavey:

We always were against the imperialism in all it's forms and for the poor and for the exploited of the all world and we always dreamed not to buy and sell the african slaves as your american ancestors slaves-owners did even in the 19th century !... but liberated them. All great russian literature spoke about it.

come on Italians have always scored ridicolously low at colonization!!! even the few arrows of the Ethiopian indigenuous were able to have us fleeing, then Mussolini came back and got some

Albania? they are the ones who colonize us nowadays, their mafia ruling all northern italy

yes my mum from Ethiopia but she has actually benefited from colonization (adopted by italian parents and brought to italy), i always tell her that if she was not for Mussolini she would be still begging for food in AddisAbeba

lots of people, especially thirld worlders, may have to than colonizers

SalTheReturn
09-12-2007, 22:17
I honestly think Russia shouldn't join the EU for its own sake. Russia is a very independently-minded country and will not want to have to bend to ALL the various rules and regulations that EU membership entails (and there are lots and lots). Russia and the US are the true powers in the world and staying out of such unions will keep them that way. The EU is great for smaller countries.

really i do not know why people can ever think Russia wants to join in BigBroEU...are you guys going sick?

in case of such science-fiction political scenario occurs means that the powerful part of EU (the non enlarged EU counting 15 countries) has gone mad

EU was created in subtle opposition to both Russia and the US, no reason we want them

Bels
09-12-2007, 22:30
I think Russia will join the EU eventually. I often wonder why Britain is bickering against Russia for the moment.I thought were great at diplomat talking, the best in the world. But perhaps they have a plan, because you you don't really know how they are really thinking. That's Brits for you . But I think Russia will join EU eventually and be very proud that they have created great history. Because it will be very big in the world when it happens. It will probably cause great financial and security confidence throughout the world.

Len Ganley Stance
09-12-2007, 22:41
I don't believe a lot of your fact gorotky, where did you get them from ? Opium and connections with opium? NO!

Britain has friendship with china. And was given Hong Kong on a 100 year lease. Yes! that is fact. Recetly in history China demanded Hong kong back after the 100 year lease.By then, then Hong kong was very strong economically and didn't want to join this strange communist country at the time. Many great businessmen have now immigrated to Britain.

But now due to Hongkong's economical strength they have also educated china very well.And now China has changed because of this, and now they are developing very well due to British influence. No! The Brits have close relations with China. Well before the Russians knew what on earth was going on outside their country. That's why the Russians are so poor on History and Geography in the world. they were so involved within themselves. and didn't know what was going on with the rest of the world.

Bels,

Congratulations you have excelled yourself and just won a new award for..............

The Most Factually Incorrect Post ever in the history of expat.ru

It's also rather offensive to Russians as well.

To get even a basic understanding of the Opium Wars and Britain's historical relationship with China, you might want to read this........

Opium Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Second_Opium_War-guangzhou.jpg" class="image"><img alt="Second Opium War-guangzhou.jpg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Second_Opium_War-guangzhou.jpg/300px-Second_Opium_War-guangzhou.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/e/e2/Second_Opium_War-guangzhou.jpg/300px-Second_Opium_War-guangzhou.jpg

Korotky Gennady
10-12-2007, 01:09
I don't believe a lot of your fact gorotky, where did you get them from ?

.

:eek: !





Opium and connections with opium? NO!

.


:eek: !!




Britain has friendship with china. And was given Hong Kong on a 100 year lease. Yes! that is fact.
.

;) :eek: !!!






Growth of the opium trade

Opium destructionThe British East India Company pursued a monopoly on production and export of opium in India after Britain conquered Bengal in the Battle of Plassey in 1757.

In 1773 the Governor-General of Bengal pursued the monopoly on the sale of opium in earnest and abolished the old opium syndicate at Patna. For the next 50 years opium would be key to the East India Company's hold on India. Importation of opium into China was against Chinese law (although China did produce a small quantity domestically). Thus, the British East India Company would buy tea in Canton on credit, carrying no opium, but would instead sell opium at the auctions in Calcutta. Eventually, the opium would be smuggled to China. In 1797 the company ended the role of local Bengal purchasing agents and instituted the direct sale of opium to the company by farmers.

British exports of opium to China skyrocketed from an estimated 15 tons in 1730, to 75 tons in 1773, shipped in over two thousand "chests," each containing 140 pounds (64 kg) of opium.

In 1799 the Chinese Empire again banned opium imports. The Empire issued the following decree in 1810:

Opium has a harm. Opium is a poison, undermining our good customs and morality. Its use is prohibited by law. Now the commoner, Yang, dares to bring it into the Forbidden City. Indeed, he flouts the law!
However, recently the purchases, eaters, and consumers of opium have become numerous. Deceitful merchants buy and sell it to gain profit. The customs house at the Ch'ung-wen Gate was originally set up to supervise the collection of imports (it had no responsibility with regard to opium smuggling). If we confine our search for opium to the seaports, we fear the search will not be sufficiently thorough. We should also order the general commandant of the police and police- censors at the five gates to prohibit opium and to search for it at all gates. If they capture any violators, they should immediately punish them and should destroy the opium at once. As to Kwangtung and Fukien, the provinces from which opium comes, we order their viceroys, governors, and superintendents of the maritime customs to conduct a thorough search for opium, and cut off its supply. They should in no ways consider this order a dead letter and allow opium to be smuggled out![3]
The decree had little effect because the Qing government in Beijing in the north could not stop merchants from smuggling opium into China from the south. This, along with the addictive properties of the drug, the desire for more profit by the British East India Company which had been granted a monopoly on trade with China by the British government, and the fact that Britain wanted silver (see gold standard) furthered the opium trade. By the 1820s China imported 900 tons of opium from Bengal annually.


Napier Affair to the First Opium War (1834–1843)

Lin Zexu's "memorial" (摺奏) written directly to Queen VictoriaMain article: First Opium War
In 1834 to accommodate the revocation of the East India Company's monopoly, the British sent Lord William John Napier to Macao. He attempted to circumvent the restrictive Canton Trade laws, which forbade direct contact with Chinese officials, and was turned away by the governor of Macao, who promptly closed trade starting on September 2 of that year. The British were not yet ready to force the matter, and agreed to resume trade under the old restrictions, even though Lord Napier implored them to force open the port.

Within the Chinese mandarinate there was an ongoing debate over legalizing the opium trade itself. However, this idea was repeatedly rejected and instead, in 1838 the government sentenced native drug traffickers to death. Around this time, the British were selling roughly 1,400 tons per year to China. In March 1839 the Emperor appointed a new strict Confucianist commissioner, Lin Zexu, to control the opium trade at the port of Canton. His first course of action was to enforce the imperial demand that there be a permanent halt to drug shipments into China. When the British refused to end the trade, Lin imposed a trade embargo on the British. On March 27, 1839 Charles Elliot, British Superintendent of Trade, demanded that all British subjects turn over their opium to him, to be confiscated by Commissioner Lin Zexu, amounting to nearly a year's supply of the drug. After the opium was surrendered, trade was restarted on the strict condition that no more drugs would be smuggled into China. Lin demanded that British merchants had to sign a bond promising not to deal in opium under penalty of death.[4] The British officially opposed signing of the bond, but some British merchants that did not deal in opium were willing to sign. Lin then disposed of the opium by dissolving it with water, salt and lime and dumping it into the ocean.

In 1839 Lin took the extraordinary step of presenting a "memorial" (摺奏) directly to Queen Victoria questioning the moral reasoning of the royal government. Citing the strict prohibition of the opium trade within England, Ireland, and Scotland, Lin questioned how Britain could then profit from the drug in China. He also wrote, "Your Majesty has not before been thus officially notified, and you may plead ignorance of the severity of our laws, but I now give my assurance that we mean to cut this harmful drug forever." Contrary to the accepted Chinese bureaucratic etiquette, through which such missives directly engaged the Emperor, Lin's memorial was never accorded a response.[5]

The British government and merchants offered no response to Lin's memorial, instead accusing Lin of destroying their private property. The British responded by sending a large British Indian army, which arrived in June of 1840.[6]

British military superiority was clearly evident during the armed conflict. British warships wreaked havoc on coastal towns. In addition, the British troops, armed with modern muskets and cannons, greatly outpowered the Qing forces. After the British took Canton, they sailed up the Yangtze and took the tax barges, a devastating blow to the Empire as it slashed the revenue of the imperial court in Beijing to just a small fraction.

In 1842 the Qing authorities sued for peace, which concluded with the Treaty of Nanking negotiated in August of that year and ratified in 1843. In the treaty, China was forced to pay an indemnity to Britain and agreed to open five ports to Britain, and ceded Hong Kong to Queen Victoria. In the supplementary Treaty of the Bogue, the Qing empire also granted Britain most favored nation treatment and gave British subjects extraterritorial privileges in the treaty ports. In 1844, the United States and France also concluded similar treaties with China, the Treaty of Wanghia and Treaty of Whampoa respectively.


Second Opium War (1856-1860)

Main article: Second Opium War
The Second Opium War, or Arrow War, broke out following an incident in which Chinese officials boarded a vessel near the port of Whampoa, the Arrow, in October 1856. Arrow was owned by a Chinese privateer. The Chinese owner registered the vessel with the British authorities in Hong Kong with the purpose of making privateering easier. He received a one year permit from the Hong Kong authorities, but it had already expired when inspected by the Chinese officials who boarded the vessel. The crew of the Arrow were accused of piracy and smuggling, and were arrested. In response, the British consulate in Guangzhou insisted that Arrow was a British vessel. The British accused the Chinese officials of tearing down and insulting the British flag during inspection. The Second Opium War was started when British forces attacked Guangzhou in 1856.

French forces joined the British intervention after a French missionary Auguste Chapdelaine was killed by a local mandarin in China. Other nations became involved diplomatically although they didn't provide military personnel.

The Treaty of Tientsin was created in July 1858, but was not ratified by China until two years later; this would prove to be a very important document in China's early modern history, as it was one of the primary unequal treaties.

Hostilities broke out once more in 1859, after China refused the establishment of a British embassy in Beijing, which had been promised by the Treaty of Tientsin. Fighting erupted in Hong Kong, and in Beijing, where the British set fire to the Summer Palace and the Old Summer Palace after considerable looting took place.

China ratified the Treaty of Tientsin at the Convention of Peking in 1860, ending the war, legalizing the import of opium, and granting a number of privileges to British and other Western subjects in China.

Korotky Gennady
10-12-2007, 01:13
Bels, i think that you, brits, ran the most shameful war in the history of mankind...

Clean32
10-12-2007, 02:05
First of all Russia is not in the EU. Secondly Germany is not the only big economical power in the EU. If we are talking about the big three in the EU it,s Britain, France and Germany. Looking at economical statistics Britain is number one.

And it looks like Britain wants to invite its ex Empire into the EU. Or its Commonwealth. That might be Britain's excuse as to why these countries can join the EU. Because the have connections with Britain.
sorry Bels but you have to be joking about the commonwealth bit, in fact the formation of the EU did so much damage to aussie and Kiwi trade with Europe, that we donít like you any more. No the south pacific and pacific rim has its own trade blocks now days. EU is not interesting.

On another note it is disappointing to see smart and educated Russians caught up in 1950 cold war retric, this spouting is mainly used to keep coherency in a population where other more balance means havenít worked. But in the case of the EU I think may Russians think there is little difference between EU and NATO. Admittedly the US used NATO as an economic tool. Now if we remember earlier this year, it was only Poland who was against the RF joining the EU, Russia really has no other option, economically she can not stand alone.

Korotky Gennady
10-12-2007, 02:19
Now if we remember earlier this year, it was only Poland who was against the RF joining the EU, Russia really has no other option, economically she can not stand alone.

Den, i'm sorry but Poland was not against RF joining to EU... Poles were against our joining to World Trade Association.

Conserning the "cold war retoric" spouting... :eh: I am against this sort of ritoric of course but i am sure that when the soviet government used this ritoric everyday there were the real facts in this ritoric... the true fact which none can deny...

Clean32
10-12-2007, 02:27
I am going to bed now, MINI me is finally asleep.
I could write volumes on the topics posted; I do know the topics quite well.

But before I go, why did the opium trade start at all??
Ok in short the Chinese wanted the stuff, it was sort of outlawed ( not true but), any way it comes back to the tea trade, Europe was consuming so much Tea, and add to that the fact that china would only take in trade for this tea silver, and a small amount of gold. Europe was just about bankrupted buy the tea trade. That includes Russia by the way.
Any way England didnít have a monopoly on opium production, although they had the greater share of production, The French though the Hamong people of Laos, and the yakke speaking Vietnamese people of the south were also great opium producers, witch fueled French trade. South America also started production of opium both for the French and Americans to pay for there tea trade. Etc so itís not so simple as it looks. Russia being a Large tea consumer, found its trade routs cut off with the fall of Constantinople, were more than happy with the British and more so the French policyís of opium for tea, Russia its self even dabbled in opium production for a time.

Korotky Gennady
10-12-2007, 02:31
Bels... suddenly just now the thought came in my head... the thought about why the brits landed in the Crimea in the 1854th... ( I mean the famous Russia-Britain Crimea War ;)

Seems they wanted to started the trade of opium in Russia also...

The brits wanted to poisen us with opium so as they poisened the poor chinese... 900 tons and more... about 1500 tons of opium a year ! Can you imagine the such bulk of pure opium ?! And notice it's not cocain but the pure opium... :eek:

For sure it was the most happy century in the chinese history. I think that they all had been up for years there... :applause:

:fireworks:

Thanks to the British Empire ! Thanks to queen Victoria personally from the name of all chinese people ! I even think that in those years they did the traditional firework not on the eve of New Year... but every day !

Miracle, i hope that the koreans got their pinch too !

Korotky Gennady
10-12-2007, 02:32
ok :bedtime:

Korotky Gennady
10-12-2007, 02:37
I am going to bed now, MINI me is finally asleep.

]


Are you gonna teach her ( or him) english and russian and computer science in the same time ? ;)

Korotky Gennady
10-12-2007, 02:42
Russia its self even dabbled in opium production for a time.[/COLOR]

it's hard to believe to it though... I can't imagine the russian czar who always thought that God itself leads him along... could become a cheap drug dealer... :watching:

Korotky Gennady
10-12-2007, 05:23
By the way i suspect that on the 16th december of 1773 what they delivered in Boston's seaport... it was not a load of tea too... :eh:

Why else did the citizens of Boston decide to throw it to the sea ? :applause:

You know what i mean... :bong:

Bels
10-12-2007, 12:34
Bels... suddenly just now the thought came in my head... the thought about why the brits landed in the Crimea in the 1854th... ( I mean the famous Russia-Britain Crimea War ;)

Seems they wanted to started the trade of opium in Russia also...

The brits wanted to poisen us with opium so as they poisened the poor chinese... 900 tons and more... about 1500 tons of opium a year ! Can you imagine the such bulk of pure opium ?! And notice it's not cocain but the pure opium... :eek:

For sure it was the most happy century in the chinese history. I think that they all had been up for years there... :applause:

:fireworks:

Thanks to the British Empire ! Thanks to queen Victoria personally from the name of all chinese people ! I even think that in those years they did the traditional firework not on the eve of New Year... but every day !

Miracle, i hope that the koreans got their pinch too !

Britain's traditional firework day is November 5th, Guy Fawkes day. Fireworks, anothing idea the Brits took from China, Gun-powder, along with ice-cream. And believe it or not pasta.

Bels
10-12-2007, 12:49
I remind you that Britain had India and Birma up to the 1949th year. France invaded and robed Algeria, Tunis, Chad, Guinea, Madagascar, Vietnam, Laos... and so on... Portugal robed Angola and Mosambic even in the end of 20th century. Holland robed Indonesia... Italia invaded in Abissinia and Livia.

Britain even ! :yikes: demanded from the chinise goverment in the end of 19th century that the chinese goverment allows the opium trade on the territory of China. And when the chinese goverment denied it, the british army started the "opium war" against Chinese state... :ninja::ninja::ninja: the war for "free trade of opium" there... ;)


Europian predators divided all the world between each other. Sal if his mother really was from Africa knows it very well.


America as the most young predator came on the path of robbery of other contries very late. And it couldn't get too much... But USA clawed Fillipini and Gavai...

Then USA army invaded to Panama, Nicarague, Guatemala... and so on... :rant:

I know that you was not taught about it in your american school but it's truth.

Only USSR was the single countrey in the world who was against the american and the europenian imperialism. And it was us who destroyd your empiries becoz we always were on the side of the oppressed and the exploited. And the african guerillas asways could get our good old AKs to fight for freedom against you. :wavey:

I think that it was becoz we are russian and Russia was always The Saint Counrey... our ancestors even called our countrey... " Saint Russia". :wavey:

We always were against the imperialism in all it's forms and for the poor and for the exploited of the all world and we always dreamed not to buy and sell the african slaves as your american ancestors slaves-owners did even in the 19th century !... but liberated them. All great russian literature spoke about it.

It was the first and second world war that destroyed the Empire. So let's say it was The Nazis, Italians and the Japanese.

Surfsup37
10-12-2007, 14:28
It will be a long, long time before Russia ever enters the EU, if ever. However, I think EU enlargement has stopped anyway for the next 10 or 15 years. The current proposal is for proportional voting rates based on population. If Russia were to enter the EU, it would be largest member with the most voting power. Old Europe (UK, France, Italy, and Germany) already have a problem with Poland, which has about 25% of the population. Do you really think that they are going to bring in a country which will automatically have the most voting rights?

Let's be honest? What is the EU? It is large trading union! Who is the government head? (Uh, nobody, it changes every 6 months.)

Who is in-charge of EU foreign policy? (You can not be in-charge of a foreign policy which does not exist.)

Who is the leader of the EU Military? EU army? EU Navy? (Oh, that's right it doesn't exist.)

Is Russia really European? The majority of Russians I know would say; "No, Russia is an unique combination of Europe and Asia." In fact, the vast majority of Russian land is in Asia. :rules:

Oh, and if you want to bring up Empires, you might remember the last remaining one which is the Russian Federation (Empire). How else did Russia expand so much in the last 300 years? The main difference is that instead of traveling over the seas and colonizing, Russia traveled over the desserts and steppes. That method has proved to be much more effective in keeping an Empire together. That empire is mostly gone, but it disappeared just 16 years ago, and remains are visible today. see below:

The Russian Federation is home to as many as 160 different ethnic groups and indigenous peoples. As of the 2002 census, 79.83% of the population (115,889,107 people) is ethnically Russian, followed by (groups larger than one million): 3.83 % Tatars (5,554,601) 2.03% Ukrainians (2,942,961) 1.15% Bashkirs (1,673,389) 1.13% Chuvashs (1,637,094) 0.94% Chechens .

SalTheReturn
10-12-2007, 15:21
It will be a long, long time before Russia ever enters the EU, if ever. However, I think EU enlargement has stopped anyway for the next 10 or 15 years. The current proposal is for proportional voting rates based on population. If Russia were to enter the EU, it would be largest member with the most voting power. Old Europe (UK, France, Italy, and Germany) already have a problem with Poland, which has about 25% of the population. Do you really think that they are going to bring in a country which will automatically have the most voting rights?

Let's be honest? What is the EU? It is large trading union! Who is the government head? (Uh, nobody, it changes every 6 months.)

Who is in-charge of EU foreign policy? (You can not be in-charge of a foreign policy which does not exist.)

Who is the leader of the EU Military? EU army? EU Navy? (Oh, that's right it doesn't exist.)

Is Russia really European? The majority of Russians I know would say; "No, Russia is an unique combination of Europe and Asia." In fact, the vast majority of Russian land is in Asia. :rules:

Oh, and if you want to bring up Empires, you might remember the last remaining one which is the Russian Federation (Empire). How else did Russia expand so much in the last 300 years? The main difference is that instead of traveling over the seas and colonizing, Russia traveled over the desserts and steppes. That method has proved to be much more effective in keeping an Empire together. That empire is mostly gone, but it disappeared just 16 years ago, and remains are visible today. see below:

The Russian Federation is home to as many as 160 different ethnic groups and indigenous peoples. As of the 2002 census, 79.83% of the population (115,889,107 people) is ethnically Russian, followed by (groups larger than one million): 3.83 % Tatars (5,554,601) 2.03% Ukrainians (2,942,961) 1.15% Bashkirs (1,673,389) 1.13% Chuvashs (1,637,094) 0.94% Chechens .


good post mate

whoever foresee an entrance of russia in the EU is sick or does not what he/she talks about

do not thin EU enlargement is over, not all, next one to get in will be drawn from the Balkans. Montenegro the first. Still we will get Ukraine pretty soon, and Kaliningrad.

Clean32
10-12-2007, 15:32
Den, i'm sorry but Poland was not against RF joining to EU... Poles were against our joining to World Trade Association.

Conserning the "cold war retoric" spouting... :eh: I am against this sort of ritoric of course but i am sure that when the soviet government used this ritoric everyday there were the real facts in this ritoric... the true fact which none can deny...

ok true about WTA, not my topic realy but isint WTA a first step to the EU ??

well Cold war Retric is still evident today both there and in the west, and correct its is usally based upon a truth, a distorted truth, an missleading truth etc all depends on the political motivations of the teacher at the time

Bels
10-12-2007, 21:29
You have surprised me Korotky, you've made some informative posts.

But for British history in the rise and fall of an empire, and info on the Developement of the British Comonwealth I prefer this kind of version.

British Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg" class="image" title="Flag of British Empire"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/125px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/125px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png

Sinestro
10-12-2007, 22:00
EU does grow into a stronger and becomes the dominant united states of Europe, however Russia and Germany are the major powers within the EU..

USA is stretched to far too many wars, financial crashes and is enslaved to China and Asian control.

When did Russia join the EU?

How many wars is the US engaged in?

Enslaved to China? :bong: Are you smoking crack again Hawkman?

Bels
10-12-2007, 22:17
When did Russia join the EU?

How many wars is the US engaged in?

Enslaved to China? :bong: Are you smoking crack again Hawkman?

We've already covered this issue, however hawk needs to participate and answer with such a comment. And is Germany the most econimically powerful country in the EU? Or is it Britain. Has anybody got some statistics ready for this argument :)

Bels
10-12-2007, 22:23
I think Hwk got mixed up with what EU means. The European Union or European Common Market. He thaught it meant EU, short for Europe. But even then he's going to get a lot of aruments. Bring in the statistics.

fenrir
10-12-2007, 22:39
We've already covered this issue, however hawk needs to participate and answer with such a comment. And is Germany the most econimically powerful country in the EU? Or is it Britain. Has anybody got some statistics ready for this argument :)

'It is the world's third largest economy by nominal GDP, the largest exporter of goods'

This from wikipedia.

Len Ganley Stance
10-12-2007, 22:41
We've already covered this issue, however hawk needs to participate and answer with such a comment. And is Germany the most econimically powerful country in the EU? Or is it Britain. Has anybody got some statistics ready for this argument :)

There you go...............

Economy of the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Euro_note_close_1.jpg" class="image"><img alt="Euro note close 1.jpg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Euro_note_close_1.jpg/250px-Euro_note_close_1.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/f/f1/Euro_note_close_1.jpg/250px-Euro_note_close_1.jpg

Bels
10-12-2007, 22:48
'It is the world's third largest economy by nominal GDP, the largest exporter of goods'

This from wikipedia.

Who is it?

fenrir
10-12-2007, 22:48
Who is it?

Germany.

Bels
10-12-2007, 22:52
There you go...............

Economy of the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union)

I knew you would be around somewhere len :) But also try British russian chamber of Commerce, British Embasy in Moscow even, use their links. Be wary of Wikopedia although I do enjoy quoting from them at times.

Bels
10-12-2007, 22:54
Germany.

I'm going to enjoy this Germany !!! It's getting late, but wait for the statistics. I've seen them a few months and I hope they are still there. Britain is nO 1 in Europe.

Bels
10-12-2007, 23:04
There you go...............

Economy of the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union)

Am I too tired or what. What's the argument about Britain's statistics. Britain versus Germany. What's the argument that makes Germany much more, powerful than Britain. I've only scan read it I must admit, But Britain looks pretty good to me. And there's more coming up.

Bels
10-12-2007, 23:12
'It is the world's third largest economy by nominal GDP, the largest exporter of goods'

This from wikipedia.

Please give me this link, I'm interested. Who's the second.

I might give you another link from wikopedia :) But please give me yours first.
Let's be politicians :)

Korotky Gennady
11-12-2007, 17:42
Bels, i'm sorry but you didn't answer to me though how queen Victoria could protect with millitary force the drug-dealers from Ost-Indian Company ? :bong:

And if it's well known fact, then what moral right and moral status does England have after that to teach other countries how they should live ?

Korotky Gennady
11-12-2007, 17:49
Yes, we had tyran Stalin ( by the way Stalin was not russian even but the f..cking georgian !... and Vladimir Lenin hated this georgian dog ! ) ... but we didn't have such amoral people as queen Victoria was... wich are ready to be protectors of the drug-dealers.

Bels
11-12-2007, 20:38
You've got it wrong. Queen Victoria was only a Monarch. Parliament controlled decisions at this time. Queen Victoria had no control.

However let's talk about Queen Elizabeth 1st. Now that was a woman. Maggie Thatcher was the next powerful Woman :) Similarities :) Maybe.

There were earlier eras of the British Empire. But the most famous era of this empire must be of course Elizabeth 1st. Of course Horatio Nelson, Captain Cook, and Blackbeard comes to mind also.