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TGP
01-12-2007, 19:29
Rather often expats write that Russia is a country of many opportunities. I read this in many posts about your plans, or wish to stay here for a few years more, or about the experience you got here.

I undestand that you, expats, have to go through many things which are not only unusual for you, but really hard to get used to, or to understand. Yet, as I see, there is something which makes the country attractive to you.
It is really interesting for me to know what are the opportunities which you mention. Yes, it is work, of course, and the salary. Yes, in many cases it is the opportunity to meet many girls or get hooked in the sweet net... :)

But seriously, what are other opportunities, if any?

SalTheReturn
01-12-2007, 20:02
Rather often expats write that Russia is a country of many opportunities. I read this in many posts about your plans, or wish to stay here for a few years more, or about the experience you got here.

I undestand that you, expats, have to go through many things which are not only unusual for you, but really hard to get used to, or to understand. Yet, as I see, there is something which makes the country attractive to you.
It is really interesting for me to know what are the opportunities which you mention. Yes, it is work, of course, and the salary. Yes, in many cases it is the opportunity to meet many girls or get hooked in the sweet net... :)

But seriously, what are other opportunities, if any?

i do not get it, if there is a good salary, if there are nice chicks...what do you wanna actually know?:vader:

Guest
01-12-2007, 20:14
Let's speak frankly: Expats LOVE Russia because the law can be ... adapted to their needs! I always laugh when expats complain about corruption for example, as they are the first to know the attraction of a $100 note! Even with the lower USD value today...

SalTheReturn
01-12-2007, 22:14
Let's speak frankly: Expats LOVE Russia because the law can be ... adapted to their needs! I always laugh when expats complain about corruption for example, as they are the first to know the attraction of a $100 note! Even with the lower USD value today...

I am sorry Guest this might be true for an American-bigot or for a primitive coming from the wood, but cannot apply for instance to XXXXXXX up mediterranean european like me and many others

once again you post without thinkint 100 times about what you are saying

disappointed

WATCH THE LANGUAGE!

druna
01-12-2007, 23:07
If you get the right job, there is an opportunity for both expats and Russians. At last they are ready to pay decent money for a good job done.
Girls, well, for me it was fine everywhere (here and in the West).:p
As far as the "specific ladies" - they are everywhere in this world if you really need them (I have no interest here)

Judge
01-12-2007, 23:10
For some expats,it's more than just money and so called chicks,many expats just love the country Russia and what it's got to offer.

The vast country side is what does it for me in Russia..Anytime you can pack your rucksack and catch a train and go where ever you want.For some this might seem lame,but i have travelled/camped around europe and staying in campsites isn't the same as when you go camping in Russia,in Russia you can make camp where ever you want and there's so much to see.So for me the opportunity to travel like a real camper is what does it for me in Russia..Work,money comes a distant 2nd to when you are out in the wildness.

SalTheReturn
01-12-2007, 23:24
For some expats,it's more than just money and so called chicks,many expats just love the country Russia and what it's got to offer.

The vast country side is what does it for me in Russia..Anytime you can pack your rucksack and catch a train and go where ever you want.For some this might seem lame,but i have travelled/camped around europe and staying in campsites isn't the same as when you go camping in Russia,in Russia you can make camp where ever you want and there's so much to see.So for me the opportunity to travel like a real camper is what does it for me in Russia..Work,money comes a distant 2nd to when you are out in the wildness.

great post Judge, there are of course lots of reason who can keep someone out there

but i would say it takes time to appreciate and guess rarely in the case of Moscow can be love at first sight

personally, despite what people may think reading my posts, I loved Moscow and bloody proud of having lived there: for the first time I was given the opportunity to see what a city of contrasts it is all about. Social rules are primitive, reality is harsh and violent. You are a visitor and allowed not to care. It was like SaoPaulo with the difference I stayed there just a month (holiday) and in Moscow 18months.

The language it was a big motivation but this has to be linked to the professional opportunities fluent russian may disclose to you especially in some european countries like Germany, Italy, the UK.

Judge
01-12-2007, 23:42
great post Judge, there are of course lots of reason who can keep someone out there

but i would say it takes time to appreciate and guess rarely in the case of Moscow can be love at first sight

personally, despite what people may think reading my posts, I loved Moscow and bloody proud of having lived there: for the first time I was given the opportunity to see what a city of contrasts it is all about. Social rules are primitive, reality is harsh and violent. You are a visitor and allowed not to care. It was like SaoPaulo with the difference I stayed there just a month (holiday) and in Moscow 18months.

The language it was a big motivation but this has to be linked to the professional opportunities fluent russian may disclose to you especially in some european countries like Germany, Italy, the UK.

That's what i love about Moscow,so much is happening,like you said a ''city of contrast''Moscow is and still is the only major city i have lived in and i can't imagine myself living in any other city,why i say this,because if you're happy with what is happening in the city you live in, why change it..
For me, like my above post,Russia's got more to offer than just Moscow,when you are out in the middle of nowhere,Lovozero,North Russia for example,you get to see the real Russia and the feeling of how big Russia really is,hits you at once.
Money,nice house, fancy cars can be bought but being able to just pack up and go into the country side for a week or two and see the beauty of the land,can't be bought in my eyes..and Russia gives me this opportunity.

Guest
02-12-2007, 09:07
once again you post without thinkint 100 times about what you are saying
disappointed

You know Sal, your judgement, here, hmm...

I can only correct "Expats LOVE Russia because the law can be ... adapted to their needs!" by "Most expats LOVE Russia because the law can be ... adapted to their needs!"

Now in your personal case, you like Russia because it gives you an opportunity to always criticize all from your Italian divan!

SalTheReturn
02-12-2007, 11:02
You know Sal, your judgement, here, hmm...

I can only correct "Expats LOVE Russia because the law can be ... adapted to their needs!" by "Most expats LOVE Russia because the law can be ... adapted to their needs!"

Now in your personal case, you like Russia because it gives you an opportunity to always criticize all from your Italian divan!

Guest we can play if you want...but do you think in countries like Italy, Spain, Greece, Turkey, we feel the concept of laws? What we do now, what our parents did, it is adapting the laws to us and cheating, sometimes even with the (it is not corruption of course) consent of the institutions. In Italy black economy is account for over 25% of the total and in the south the percentage raise to 40%.

get an American bigot who is already excited at the idea of drinking alcol on the street or by the fact he/she will hide taxes it is ok, or even take someone coming from boring wood countries (Scandinavia, NZ, etc...), they will be the ones freaking happy of adapting the laws

what i did in Moscow, working and not paying taxes or renting with no contract it is something, as a european, I am very used to

take care

Miracle77777
03-12-2007, 00:10
What we do now, what our parents did, it is adapting the laws to us and cheating, sometimes even with the (it is not corruption of course) consent of the institutions. In Italy black economy is account for over 25% of the total and in the south the percentage raise to 40%.

get an American bigot who is already excited at the idea of drinking alcol on the street or by the fact he/she will hide taxes it is ok, or even take someone coming from boring wood countries (Scandinavia, NZ, etc...), they will be the ones freaking happy of adapting the laws




Don't get it....Are you proud of this??????

SalTheReturn
03-12-2007, 01:10
What we do now, what our parents did, it is adapting the laws to us and cheating, sometimes even with the (it is not corruption of course) consent of the institutions. In Italy black economy is account for over 25% of the total and in the south the percentage raise to 40%.

get an American bigot who is already excited at the idea of drinking alcol on the street or by the fact he/she will hide taxes it is ok, or even take someone coming from boring wood countries (Scandinavia, NZ, etc...), they will be the ones freaking happy of adapting the laws




Don't get it....Are you proud of this??????

yes because it taught me how to live have a more flexible look at things, of course it bother me as well but...italian saying: you cant have the bottle full and the wife drunk:goldy:

Miracle77777
03-12-2007, 01:23
yes because it taught me how to live have a more flexible look at things, of course it bother me as well but...italian saying: you cant have the bottle full and the wife drunk:goldy:

Very smart native ^-*
By the way have a non-connected-with-thread-question for u: this summer I was in Bari about a week...it seemed for me very interesting and relaxing there....but recently I was told that it is a mafia-city:ak:
Is it true?? I was really scared :(

leelee
03-12-2007, 08:57
For me, believe it or not its the quality of life. Dont have to work my arse off everyday all day. only work part time when I want---- dont get taxed to death like in the UK-- nice bit of corruption when it suits

Hot summers by the pool--- deep snow to play snowball fighting in winter

easy

Lee

SalTheReturn
03-12-2007, 13:17
Very smart native ^-*
By the way have a non-connected-with-thread-question for u: this summer I was in Bari about a week...it seemed for me very interesting and relaxing there....but recently I was told that it is a mafia-city:ak:
Is it true?? I was really scared :(

are there still people thinking the mafia will bother tourists?

you see guys? it is not just foreigners having mis-stereotypes about russia, the opposite happens too!!! because this is the same like saying "oh I am afraid of relocating to Moscow because of the mafia"

TGP
03-12-2007, 14:52
For me, believe it or not its the quality of life. Dont have to work my arse off everyday all day. only work part time when I want---- dont get taxed to death like in the UK-- nice bit of corruption when it suits

Hot summers by the pool--- deep snow to play snowball fighting in winter

easy

Lee

LOL

Exactly!
Life has been relaxed for ages in Russia. I mean people never were in a hurry... "A man won't cross himself untill thunder claps", - Russian saying.

SalTheReturn
03-12-2007, 17:12
For me, believe it or not its the quality of life. Dont have to work my arse off everyday all day. only work part time when I want---- dont get taxed to death like in the UK-- nice bit of corruption when it suits

Hot summers by the pool--- deep snow to play snowball fighting in winter

easy

Lee

great man

but even with time available in Moscow...how do you spend it in a relaxing&healthy way? even riding downtown to do some shopping might deliver you a time of a hell!!!

how is the quality of your skin? and how is it going w/aging process?

Miracle77777
03-12-2007, 23:58
are there still people thinking the mafia will bother tourists?

you see guys? it is not just foreigners having mis-stereotypes about russia, the opposite happens too!!! because this is the same like saying "oh I am afraid of relocating to Moscow because of the mafia"

Yeap...maybe it is mis-stereotype.....but the problem is that it was my Italian friend who told me this!!!
So........

Miracle77777
04-12-2007, 00:04
great man



how is the quality of your skin? and how is it going w/aging process?

My Goodness, Sal!!!
You are seriously envolve in this question!!

Clean32
04-12-2007, 00:06
My Goodness, Sal!!!
You are seriously envolve in this question!!

LOL Sal and his Russia bashing again any thing for attention, i think his mother should have taken him off the Tit earlyer

VladSkywolf
06-12-2007, 09:55
Let's speak frankly: Expats LOVE Russia because the law can be ... adapted to their needs! I always laugh when expats complain about corruption for example, as they are the first to know the attraction of a $100 note! Even with the lower USD value today...

The 'adaptability' of laws quite frankly scares the heck out of me. Knowing the exact boundaries of the law, equally applied to everyone without the necessity of an attractive $100 note, let's me stay on the right side of it AND sleep a little easier.

Anyway, as long as no one forces me to do it I don't complain about it. :)

VladSkywolf
06-12-2007, 10:42
For some expats,it's more than just money and so called chicks,many expats just love the country Russia and what it's got to offer.

The vast country side is what does it for me in Russia..Anytime you can pack your rucksack and catch a train and go where ever you want.For some this might seem lame,but i have travelled/camped around europe and staying in campsites isn't the same as when you go camping in Russia,in Russia you can make camp where ever you want and there's so much to see.So for me the opportunity to travel like a real camper is what does it for me in Russia..Work,money comes a distant 2nd to when you are out in the wildness.

I have to agree with you on this one Judge. I was absolutely amazed at the freedom to go anywhere and do anything (within the limits of the law of course ;)) without the constant hand holding and "DO NOT <insert activity>" signs so prevalent in the U.S. Being in the Far East with it's vast undeveloped areas, there are endless opportunities for pitching a tent somewhere (preferably not next to a tiger's lair or a bear's den :D) or setting up my mangal for some shashlik (yummy). As another example, there are many old Soviet and pre-Soviet fortifications around Vladivostok which can be explored without gates, ropes, or fences barring the way. It was a blast going through the numerous underground tunnels or climbing the parapets as I wished.

Anyhow, in many ways I feel more free here to do the things I enjoy than I did back in the states. I guess this can fall under the category of 'opportunities' (in answer to TGP's original post). I've also had the opportunity to make more good, close, quality friends in the few years I've been here compared to all my other years in the states. The slower pace of life is a refreshing (and well appreciated) change from the NYC area rat race. Lastly, I can't deny the wonderful opportunity I had to finally meet (and marry) the woman who most closely matched my ideal of a life partner.

Money? Hah! I earn the equivalent of an average Russian salary so I'm certainly not getting rich, nor do I care. Girls? Already have the one and that's enough. :inlove: 'Adapting' the laws to suit me? Not comfortable with that and won't go beyond what normal Russians do - I'll let my wife be my guide in this area, and even then there are certain lines I won't cross.

Sometimes it's hard to put into words exactly what it is that keeps me here. I feel a connection to this place and I now consider it my home. I recall when I first made the decision to come here, my family (typically) all thought I was crazy. However when I visited them this past spring with my wife (her first visit), they finally, after having spent a lot of time getting to know her and more about our life here, understood that (knowing me) this is where I belong.

SalTheReturn
06-12-2007, 12:22
I have to agree with you on this one Judge. I was absolutely amazed at the freedom to go anywhere and do anything (within the limits of the law of course ;)) without the constant hand holding and "DO NOT <insert activity>" signs so prevalent in the U.S. Being in the Far East with it's vast undeveloped areas, there are endless opportunities for pitching a tent somewhere (preferably not next to a tiger's lair or a bear's den :D) or setting up my mangal for some shashlik (yummy). As another example, there are many old Soviet and pre-Soviet fortifications around Vladivostok which can be explored without gates, ropes, or fences barring the way. It was a blast going through the numerous underground tunnels or climbing the parapets as I wished.

Anyhow, in many ways I feel more free here to do the things I enjoy than I did back in the states. I guess this can fall under the category of 'opportunities' (in answer to TGP's original post). I've also had the opportunity to make more good, close, quality friends in the few years I've been here compared to all my other years in the states. The slower pace of life is a refreshing (and well appreciated) change from the NYC area rat race. Lastly, I can't deny the wonderful opportunity I had to finally meet (and marry) the woman who most closely matched my ideal of a life partner.

Money? Hah! I earn the equivalent of an average Russian salary so I'm certainly not getting rich, nor do I care. Girls? Already have the one and that's enough. :inlove: 'Adapting' the laws to suit me? Not comfortable with that and won't go beyond what normal Russians do - I'll let my wife be my guide in this area, and even then there are certain lines I won't cross.

Sometimes it's hard to put into words exactly what it is that keeps me here. I feel a connection to this place and I now consider it my home. I recall when I first made the decision to come here, my family (typically) all thought I was crazy. However when I visited them this past spring with my wife (her first visit), they finally, after having spent a lot of time getting to know her and more about our life here, understood that (knowing me) this is where I belong.

that freedom you talk about it is common to any european country

it seems to me it takes so little to americans happy!!!:gorgeous:

Judge
06-12-2007, 13:15
that freedom you talk about it is common to any european country

it seems to me it takes so little to americans happy!!!:gorgeous:

It's a different freedom for hikers Sal.Don't get me wrong now..I was camping all over Italy with my wife in the summer and Italy has some great campsites but these campsites are too cosy,you have showers,toilets electricity(which is good for the casual camper),,for hardcore campers they don't need these things, they only need the wildness and no one around for miles and miles,Russia gives you this..Also in europe you have to stick to paths,no trespassing and no fishing in most parts...Lets take fishing,now that's pure freedom in Russia,ok there are laws down but you can fish in most places,you catch what you eat.
When i was talking to italian campers ,they were shocked when i told them that you can pitch your tent where ever it pleases you in Russia.
One more thing,, it's cheaper to camp in Russia,, you don't need to pay the camp fees..:applause::applause::applause:

SalTheReturn
06-12-2007, 16:49
It's a different freedom for hikers Sal.Don't get me wrong now..I was camping all over Italy with my wife in the summer and Italy has some great campsites but these campsites are too cosy,you have showers,toilets electricity(which is good for the casual camper),,for hardcore campers they don't need these things, they only need the wildness and no one around for miles and miles,Russia gives you this..Also in europe you have to stick to paths,no trespassing and no fishing in most parts...Lets take fishing,now that's pure freedom in Russia,ok there are laws down but you can fish in most places,you catch what you eat.
When i was talking to italian campers ,they were shocked when i told them that you can pitch your tent where ever it pleases you in Russia.
One more thing,, it's cheaper to camp in Russia,, you don't need to pay the camp fees..:applause::applause::applause:

is not that a sign of lack of civilization? why the hell should i allow to place your tent everywhere?

i did it too but it was just in develloping countries (ie. Mexico) so i am not surprised if in russia is allowed

VladSkywolf
06-12-2007, 16:52
that freedom you talk about it is common to any european country


No, it is not. Judge has made the point quite clear in this (http://http://www.expat.ru/forum/expat-cafe/51189-chances-2.html#post317866) post. And yes, I have traveled in Europe, so nothing that you say will change my mind on this. Empirical data has a way of doing that, silly me.



it seems to me it takes so little to americans happy!!!:gorgeous:

Maybe so, but whatever floats my boat is my business, isn't it? I don't live my life based on whether or not others approve - the only approval I need is my own (and now my wife's :D). Same goes with whatever I have to say. :p Of course I'm only speaking my own opinion, one that I'm sure many Americans may not agree with.

Speaking of which, don't you think your comment is a bit bigoted? I mean, making the assumption that the opinion of one person represents the opinions of an entire nationality? Tsk, tsk. I, on the other hand, have had the pleasure of making the acquaintance of many Italians so you won't see me making the same mistake. ;)

SalTheReturn
06-12-2007, 16:58
No, it is not. Judge has made the point quite clear in this (http://http://www.expat.ru/forum/expat-cafe/51189-chances-2.html#post317866) post. And yes, I have traveled in Europe, so nothing that you say will change my mind on this. Empirical data has a way of doing that, silly me.



Maybe so, but whatever floats my boat is my business, isn't it? I don't live my life based on whether or not others approve - the only approval I need is my own (and now my wife's :D). Same goes with whatever I have to say. :p Of course I'm only speaking my own opinion, one that I'm sure many Americans may not agree with.

Speaking of which, don't you think your comment is a bit bigoted? I mean, making the assumption that the opinion of one person represents the opinions of an entire nationality? Tsk, tsk. I, on the other hand, have had the pleasure of making the acquaintance of many Italians so you won't see me making the same mistake. ;)

first judge talked about squattering (use this term because what he does is often illegal in most advanced european countries) and not about the vague concept of "freedom" you spouted

as concern the americans, blame your national fellow: why do you like Europe? "I feel free over here" this is the typical answer

the freedom they state it is all about drinking in public, not being followed by federal tax and cheating (no big deal of course) the laws

as a european i did not feel more free in russia, it was the same like many other european countries i visited and lived in

Judge
07-12-2007, 01:26
Sal ,you got the wrong end of the stick(didn't understand).What we are talking about isn't squatting,it's about real camping and being able to be free to hike in the country side..The main reason Russia is free to many people who like camping is because it's bloody huge..The Russian Goverment can't put signs up everywhere..For you to understand Sal,i'm not talking about a weekend break in the country side,i'm on about 10/15 days adventure,where you walk for 5/10 km a day with a 35kg load on your back.

VladSkywolf
07-12-2007, 06:13
... and not about the vague concept of "freedom" you spouted


Are you denying that 'freedom' means different things to different people? Okay, so you don't 'get' what I'm talking about - no problem, but that doesn't make it any less 'vague' or meaningful to me.

Oh, and FYI, I don't 'spout'... well, maybe after a few beers. :drink: ;)



as concern the americans, blame your national fellow: why do you like Europe? "I feel free over here" this is the typical answer

the freedom they state it is all about drinking in public, not being followed by federal tax and cheating (no big deal of course) the laws


Those so-called 'freedoms' mean nothing to me. Again, you are lumping all persons of a particular nationality into one basket based on the word(s) of one or a few. Gee, I seem to recall you being quite indignant about references to the Italian mafia - don't you think you're indulging in the same behavior you were so quick to criticize?



as a european i did not feel more free in russia, it was the same like many other european countries i visited and lived in


And I'm not arguing how you felt about your stay in Russia - if you didn't like it, so be it and I'll respect that. But you seem to revel in disputing others' experiences and feelings based on how YOU feel, and that's where we take issue. I don't want to be told by YOU how I'm wrong about MY feelings and experiences. It's arrogant and condescending, and as you've no doubt noticed, I don't take that lightly. Besides, last time I woke up, I was VladSkywolf, NOT SalTheReturn. :p

By the way, did you ever leave the girl chasing in the bars and clubs of Moscow long enough to see other regions of Russia? Are you basing your opinion of the entire Russian Federation on your experiences in Moscow? Just curious, because you know, that would be no different than someone saying how much Italy sucks based only on a visit to Rome. Is Rome representative of how all of Italy is? You and I both know the answer to that question, don't we? Now think of how much bigger Russia's land mass is compared to Italy and MAYBE you'll begin to get the picture.



is not that a sign of lack of civilization?


So your definition of an 'advanced civilization' is dividing up all the land around us among private owners, denying it's use by the 'common' folk, even for something as simple as taking a walk? Sorry Sal, but that's just plain ludicrous.

Sigh... how unfortunate for Russia - it's such a third-rate third world country with a backward civilization incapable of sending men into space or subs to the seabed under the polar ice cap. (dripping sarcasm here)

VladSkywolf
07-12-2007, 06:30
Sal ,you got the wrong end of the stick(didn't understand).What we are talking about isn't squatting,it's about real camping and being able to be free to hike in the country side..The main reason Russia is free to many people who like camping is because it's bloody huge..The Russian Goverment can't put signs up everywhere..For you to understand Sal,i'm not talking about a weekend break in the country side,i'm on about 10/15 days adventure,where you walk for 5/10 km a day with a 35kg load on your back.

I believe (and I hope our Russian friends here will correct me if I'm wrong) this is also due to a holdover from the Soviet era, when private land ownership was relatively rare or impossible. The land belonged to the government, which you were then allowed to use (i.e., for farming, housing, etc). Land that wasn't being used for specific purposes could then be used by its citizens for recreational purposes since no one person 'owned' it (who could throw you out). In my opinion this is not a bad thing, and I hope it doesn't go away completely.

By the way, do you know that many Native American tribes were quite perplexed with the American obsession for land ownership? Many didn't even have the words in their language for such a concept, as silly a notion to them as it would be to us today to consider owning the air in the atmosphere. I sometimes wonder which is the more advanced civilization - that which lives in harmony with the land, or that which destroys it? Alas, that's a topic best left for another thread. :)

Guest
07-12-2007, 09:53
Very smart native ^-*
By the way have a non-connected-with-thread-question for u: this summer I was in Bari about a week...it seemed for me very interesting and relaxing there....but recently I was told that it is a mafia-city:ak:
Is it true?? I was really scared :(



Bari is the mafia city as Italy is the mafia country :)

But Italian mafia doesn't care of tourists, especially Russian ones who, as everybody in the world knows, ARE Russian mafia!

SalTheReturn
07-12-2007, 10:00
Sal ,you got the wrong end of the stick(didn't understand).What we are talking about isn't squatting,it's about real camping and being able to be free to hike in the country side..The main reason Russia is free to many people who like camping is because it's bloody huge..The Russian Goverment can't put signs up everywhere..For you to understand Sal,i'm not talking about a weekend break in the country side,i'm on about 10/15 days adventure,where you walk for 5/10 km a day with a 35kg load on your back.

You did not need to go this the long useless explanation because I knew straight what was your point

the term "squatting" was used on purpose, because by the very first moment, you place a tent somewhere in a country where laws do not allow it (and once you undertake travels you gotta know what it is allowed or not, no excuse mate), you are illegally occupying a territory hence you are squatting

should you bump into people like me you would have the cops called in a minute and you getting fined

SalTheReturn
07-12-2007, 10:09
Are you denying that 'freedom' means different things to different people? Okay, so you don't 'get' what I'm talking about - no problem, but that doesn't make it any less 'vague' or meaningful to me.

Oh, and FYI, I don't 'spout'... well, maybe after a few beers. :drink: ;)



Those so-called 'freedoms' mean nothing to me. Again, you are lumping all persons of a particular nationality into one basket based on the word(s) of one or a few. Gee, I seem to recall you being quite indignant about references to the Italian mafia - don't you think you're indulging in the same behavior you were so quick to criticize?



And I'm not arguing how you felt about your stay in Russia - if you didn't like it, so be it and I'll respect that. But you seem to revel in disputing others' experiences and feelings based on how YOU feel, and that's where we take issue. I don't want to be told by YOU how I'm wrong about MY feelings and experiences. It's arrogant and condescending, and as you've no doubt noticed, I don't take that lightly. Besides, last time I woke up, I was VladSkywolf, NOT SalTheReturn. :p

By the way, did you ever leave the girl chasing in the bars and clubs of Moscow long enough to see other regions of Russia? Are you basing your opinion of the entire Russian Federation on your experiences in Moscow? Just curious, because you know, that would be no different than someone saying how much Italy sucks based only on a visit to Rome. Is Rome representative of how all of Italy is? You and I both know the answer to that question, don't we? Now think of how much bigger Russia's land mass is compared to Italy and MAYBE you'll begin to get the picture.



So you're definition of an 'advanced civilization' is dividing up all the land around us among private owners, denying it's use by the 'common' folk, even for something as simple as taking a walk? Sorry Sal, but that's just plain ludicrous.

Sigh... how unfortunate for Russia - it's such a third-rate third world country with a backward civilization incapable of sending men into space or subs to the seabed under the polar ice cap. (dripping sarcasm here)

Really dunno what are you ranting about but of course dude you are free to got the way you want

just let me tell you it sounds all a bit ridicolous to blame me of considering Moscow representative of Russia, I have got decent cultural means which allows me to know how Moscow it is just a big lie. Nevertheless it was the only place i wanted to see, even in peter i had to refuse several invitations. Moscow is what i wanted and needed.

never left Moscow, did not see a lot of the podmoskovie if not for exclaming "thanks God i do not live here"

Russia is backward according to western european standard

let me explain a last thing:
what bother me on this site it is people bringing forth sociologically irrelevant experience rather than talking about facts/numbers/dogmas

this is what destroy the forum and makes it no more a reference for wanna-be expats but a simple chat

my 2 cents

VladSkywolf
07-12-2007, 12:23
Really dunno what are you ranting about but of course dude you are free to got the way you want


Well, I just re-read my post and it seems my 'rant' is quite clear. :)



just let me tell you it sounds all a bit ridicolous to blame me of considering Moscow representative of Russia, I have got decent cultural means which allows me to know how Moscow it is just a big lie. Nevertheless it was the only place i wanted to see, even in peter i had to refuse several invitations. Moscow is what i wanted and needed.


In many posts you have written "Russia", not "Moscow" - what else am I supposed to think?

Might I suggest then that you limit your comments to "Moscow this and Moscow that" instead of "Russia this and Russia that"?



Russia is backward according to western european standard


I suppose that depends on what you consider a 'standard', but on the whole I think I understand the point you're trying to make.



let me explain a last thing:
what bother me on this site it is people bringing forth sociologically irrelevant experience rather than talking about facts/numbers/dogmas

this is what destroy the forum and makes it no more a reference for wanna-be expats but a simple chat


Hmm... believe it or not, many people who come here want to have the sociological experience, so for them it's very relevant. Why is it so bad for a resource to provide both facts/numbers/dogmas for people like you (and there's nothing wrong that), and social commentary for those like myself who want to experience the heart and soul of this country?



my 2 cents


Duly noted. Your opinion, stated as such, is always welcome. :)

Judge
07-12-2007, 16:11
You did not need to go this the long useless explanation because I knew straight what was your point

the term "squatting" was used on purpose, because by the very first moment, you place a tent somewhere in a country where laws do not allow it (and once you undertake travels you gotta know what it is allowed or not, no excuse mate), you are illegally occupying a territory hence you are squatting

should you bump into people like me you would have the cops called in a minute and you getting fined

The useless explanation was needed because you don't unsterstand what we are talking about here.
I have no interest to camp in a country where i'm not allowed,this is called respect and this is why i don't do much camping in west europe because really it's boring compared to the type of camping that Russia has to offer.

Judge
07-12-2007, 16:14
By the way, do you know that many Native American tribes were quite perplexed with the American obsession for land ownership? Many didn't even have the words in their language for such a concept, as silly a notion to them as it would be to us today to consider owning the air in the atmosphere. I sometimes wonder which is the more advanced civilization - that which lives in harmony with the land, or that which destroys it? Alas, that's a topic best left for another thread. :)

Yes ,this is true and the land should be enjoyed by all.

Miracle77777
07-12-2007, 21:33
Are you denying that 'freedom' means different things to different people? Okay, so you don't 'get' what I'm talking about - no problem, but that doesn't make it any less 'vague' or meaningful to me.
Oh, and FYI, I don't 'spout'... well, maybe after a few beers. :drink: ;)
Those so-called 'freedoms' mean nothing to me. Again, you are lumping all persons of a particular nationality into one basket based on the word(s) of one or a few. Gee, I seem to recall you being quite indignant about references to the Italian mafia - don't you think you're indulging in the same behavior you were so quick to criticize?
And I'm not arguing how you felt about your stay in Russia - if you didn't like it, so be it and I'll respect that. But you seem to revel in disputing others' experiences and feelings based on how YOU feel, and that's where we take issue. I don't want to be told by YOU how I'm wrong about MY feelings and experiences. It's arrogant and condescending, and as you've no doubt noticed, I don't take that lightly. Besides, last time I woke up, I was VladSkywolf, NOT SalTheReturn. :p
By the way, did you ever leave the girl chasing in the bars and clubs of Moscow long enough to see other regions of Russia? Are you basing your opinion of the entire Russian Federation on your experiences in Moscow? Just curious, because you know, that would be no different than someone saying how much Italy sucks based only on a visit to Rome. Is Rome representative of how all of Italy is? You and I both know the answer to that question, don't we? Now think of how much bigger Russia's land mass is compared to Italy and MAYBE you'll begin to get the picture.
So your definition of an 'advanced civilization' is dividing up all the land around us among private owners, denying it's use by the 'common' folk, even for something as simple as taking a walk? Sorry Sal, but that's just plain ludicrous.

Sigh... how unfortunate for Russia - it's such a third-rate third world country with a backward civilization incapable of sending men into space or subs to the seabed under the polar ice cap. (dripping sarcasm here)

:applause:
Once again have been impressed by your Eloquence and to how u could argue with such a gentle way^-*
Need to learn ^-*
:fridaysign:

Miracle77777
07-12-2007, 21:35
Bari is the mafia city as Italy is the mafia country :)

But Italian mafia doesn't care of tourists, especially Russian ones who, as everybody in the world knows, ARE Russian mafia!

:D Aha...and maybe the strongest and the artful one!!!:D

Miracle77777
07-12-2007, 21:46
let me explain a last thing:
what bother me on this site it is people bringing forth sociologically irrelevant experience rather than talking about facts/numbers/dogmas

this is what destroy the forum and makes it no more a reference for wanna-be expats but a simple chat

my 2 cents

Sorry, Sal...but I really do not think that some sociologically irrelevant experience destroy the forum :bookworm:
On the contrary, I think here is the best of the places where you could discuss the most interesting for u themes and in the same time to reveal your own ideas and suggestions...This just makes our discussions more exciting & interesting!!
Remember your own posts!!!
Regards...:inlove:

SalTheReturn
07-12-2007, 22:49
:applause:
Once again have been impressed by your Eloquence and to how u could argue with such a gentle way^-*
Need to learn ^-*
:fridaysign:

in fact at least with him (only other exception is Judge) it seems to talk with someone claiming decent cultural backgrounds

in between the SELF-CENSORED and the Clean-I know-it-all, this forum has really a long way to go

Clean32
07-12-2007, 22:53
in fact at least with him (only other exception is Judge) it seems to talk with someone claiming decent cultural backgrounds

in between the SELF-CENSORED and the Clean-I know-it-all, this forum has really a long way to go

Be a lot better if you just ****ED off Dago

Miracle77777
08-12-2007, 13:54
in fact at least with him (only other exception is Judge) it seems to talk with someone claiming decent cultural backgrounds

in between the SELF-CENSORED and the Clean-I know-it-all, this forum has really a long way to go

Don't be so shy :D
To talk with u (sometimes...when u do not argue about nothing^-*) - it is interesting too;)
Regards..

SalTheReturn
08-12-2007, 14:56
Don't be so shy :D
To talk with u (sometimes...when u do not argue about nothing^-*) - it is interesting too;)
Regards..

do not you think clean is so unpolite? what should we do?

Miracle77777
09-12-2007, 00:18
do not you think clean is so unpolite? what should we do?

I do not think so, but You better to know:wavey:

dick
10-12-2007, 22:39
Be a lot better if you just ****ED off Dago

Showing us your intelligence Clean32? Or your total control of the engilsh language?

Miracle77777
10-12-2007, 22:44
Showing us your intelligence Clean32? Or your total control of the engilsh language?

Nice shot :thumbsup:

Clean32
11-12-2007, 01:51
Nice shot :thumbsup:

lol

dick
11-12-2007, 02:18
I am not and never was you dumb ass.

Miracle77777
11-12-2007, 12:28
QUOTE=Clean32;319629]lol[/QUOTE]

:shame: