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Alan65
09-03-2013, 00:57
Here is the position, today I proposed to my girlfriend...well it is ladies day after all, Anna said yes so all is good.

Now here is the big issue, well it is ladies day and there is another girl involved, her name is Namara, Noma (short name) is 7 and Annas daughter, Anna is divorced from the father of Noma, Nomas natural father does not really care about her or ever come to see Noma.

So, putting the visas, TRP, PRP issues to oneside as I can get these quite easily, putting Anna UK visa etc to one side as Anna can get these easily.

What I would like to know is a good adoption lawyer if the natural father does not give up parental rights and we have to take this to the Russian courts.

We are compiling info all of the time to create our case for adoption.

BabyFirefly
09-03-2013, 01:02
As I understand if the dad says no, you can't do anything about it.

Potty
09-03-2013, 01:04
As I understand if the dad says no, you can't do anything about it.

You can, if he doesn't pay alimony. Or alcohol\drugs addict.
Alan65, Russian women usually do this without a lawyer. It is a standard procedure, your fiance just has to find out how to do that.

BabyFirefly
09-03-2013, 01:07
You can, if he doesn't pay alimony. Or alcohol\drugs addict.
Alan65, Russian women usually do this without a lawyer. It is a standard procedure, your fiance just has to find out how to do that.

But if he's a good dad?

Potty
09-03-2013, 01:11
But if he's a good dad?

Doesn't matter. Overdue on alimony payments is a very serious reason.
Статья 69 Семейного кодекса
http://www.consultant.ru/popular/family/20_15.html#p573

MickeyTong
09-03-2013, 01:17
Here is the position, today I proposed to my girlfriend...well it is ladies day after all, Anna said yes so all is good.

Now here is the big issue, well it is ladies day and there is another girl involved, her name is Namara, Noma (short name) is 7 and Annas daughter, Anna is divorced from the father of Noma, Nomas natural father does not really care about her or ever come to see Noma.

So, putting the visas, TRP, PRP issues to oneside as I can get these quite easily, putting Anna UK visa etc to one side as Anna can get these easily.

What I would like to know is a good adoption lawyer if the natural father does not give up parental rights and we have to take this to the Russian courts.

We are compiling info all of the time to create our case for adoption.

Alan - congrats on your engagement, and further congrats on your willingness to become a stepdad: it's not an easy role, but it can be wonderful for both of you.

Sorry, but I don't know the legalities of adopting a Russian wife's Russian child. (It could be problematic for an American these days.....)

MickeyTong
09-03-2013, 01:19
But if he's a good dad?

If he were a good dad then probably Noma (and her mum) would not be interested in adoption.

Alan65
09-03-2013, 01:20
You can, if he doesn't pay alimony. Or alcohol\drugs addict.
Alan65, Russian women usually do this without a lawyer. It is a standard procedure, your fiance just has to find out how to do that.

Potty, Thank you very much, he f()cked off and left her, Anna is a great girl as is Noma (both mames changed), Noma is 7, he was simply an idiot, i will not say the c word as BFF may warn me again :-)

But the adoption will be the hardest part of our relationship and that affects taking Noma on holidays etc without the father permission.

It is the one thing I worry about, but little Noma, she is a showboater and I am sure it will all work out.

I am just looking for a contingency plan if the idiot says no.

BabyFirefly
09-03-2013, 01:26
Potty, Thank you very much, he f()cked off and left her, Anna is a great girl as is Noma (both mames changed), Noma is 7, he was simply an idiot, i will not say the c word as BFF may warn me again :-)

But the adoption will be the hardest part of our relationship and that affects taking Noma on holidays etc without the father permission.

It is the one thing I worry about, but little Noma, she is a showboater and I am sure it will all work out.

I am just looking for a contingency plan if the idiot says no.

I don't have much experience with this myself, but I've heard of other US/UK-Russian couples basically paying off the deadbeat dad...

I wish you success in all this and I'm glad the little girl will finally have a stable father figure.

yakspeare
09-03-2013, 01:27
I have been through this myself and looked into it many times....and BFF statement is what I have heard time and time again...itis near impossible to adopt or have a child leave the country without the father's permission.

Alan65
09-03-2013, 01:29
Alan - congrats on your engagement, and further congrats on your willingness to become a stepdad: it's not an easy role, but it can be wonderful for both of you.

Sorry, but I don't know the legalities of adopting a Russian wife's Russian child. (It could be problematic for an American these days.....)

Mickey

Stop that right now !!!!! I am a brit and live in London ))))

Alan65
09-03-2013, 01:32
But if he's a good dad?

Toma is 7, he has not seen her in 5 years and went to live in another Russian city, not my shout BFF

BabyFirefly
09-03-2013, 01:34
Good news (for these purposes) is he seems to not give a damn, so you can either pay him off or he'd just agree to it anyway.

Alan65
09-03-2013, 01:41
I have been through this myself and looked into it many times....and BFF statement is what I have heard time and time again...itis near impossible to adopt or have a child leave the country without the father's permission.

I appreciate what you say Yaks, but and this is the big but, we know what we want and if we have to give a deadbeat anougth rope to hang himeself for the sake of Toma, we will give him that rope.

No One wil stand in our way

Potty
09-03-2013, 01:41
But if he's a good dad?

In Russia scheme of alimony payment is different from US or Europe. Here you just have to pay % from your salary (income). 25% for 1 child, 16,5% for each of 2 children, 50% for 3 (or more) children. Total amount of alimony can not exceed 50% of father's income. In other words if you are not rich no one will force you pay more than you can. So, if a father doesn't pay it means that he is just bitching.

Potty
09-03-2013, 01:49
Toma is 7, he has not seen her in 5 years and went to live in another Russian city, not my shout BFF

so he doesn't pay alimony?

Shiny Happy People
09-03-2013, 01:49
Mickey

Stop that right now !!!!! I am a brit and live in London ))))
Alan, you need to chill, man. So, you are a Brit and live in London. I am a Brit and live in Moscow. The problem is the same whatever. I know from experience of friends, that what makes sense to you as a Brit will be irrelevant in Russian law. The father seems to have absolute right over a child, whether he is in-situ or not, pays or not, is a useless drunk, or not. Failing having him "dealt with", which some of them deserve, or paying him off, you may be in for a long legal process, and Mickey is right when he refers to recent "American" situations, cos it may well affect you guys. I can't think that the courts here will look kindly on a foreigner taking away "one of theirs", if that's what you plan. Have you investigated the likelihood of being allowed to bring them both to Britain anyway? In my experience that is far from an easy process, even with a wife, let alone a fiancee with a child. Honestly, your expression of other things being easy may be naive. I was shocked to find that as a wealthy, settled, British homeowner, I was not free to bring my fiancee or wife into my country, without government intervention!
I wish you luck and will help if I can, my contacts are good and my wife is resourceful.
Good luck.
G

Potty
09-03-2013, 01:52
The father seems to have absolute right over a child, whether he is in-situ or not, pays or not, is a useless drunk, or not
G

NFW

Alan65
09-03-2013, 01:53
Good news (for these purposes) is he seems to not give a damn, so you can either pay him off or he'd just agree to it anyway.

This is were I think Potty really comes into play,Potty is smart, the only issue here is Tamara who is 7, forget the marriage, think of the kids.

yakspeare
09-03-2013, 01:55
In Russia scheme of alimony payment is different from US or Europe. Here you just have to pay % from your salary (income). 25% for 1 child, 16,5% for each of 2 children, 50% for 3 (or more) children. Total amount of alimony can not exceed 50% of father's income. In other words if you are not rich no one will force you pay more than you can. So, if a father doesn't pay it means that he is just bitching.

similar to Australia. My ex wife was thrilled when I became a realtor and my child support contribution jumped up to $80000 a year. with the Australian tax scale and child support on top my 250k a year income meant I earned for myself about $60000 a year for my 100 hour a week and the ex wife got 20k more than I did plus free housing from the government. Plus she got her government pension on top of that.

Potty
09-03-2013, 01:58
Alan, ideally your fiance should have started this procedure long time ago. But If she didn't have any reasons then she has them now. So, calm down, let her go to the certain institutions to find out what she can do in this situation. Once he starts to receive letters from the court he will understand that it is beneficial for him to give permission for adoption.

Alan65
09-03-2013, 02:05
Alan, you need to chill, man. So, you are a Brit and live in London. I am a Brit and live in Moscow. The problem is the same whatever. I know from experience of friends, that what makes sense to you as a Brit will be irrelevant in Russian law. The father seems to have absolute right over a child, whether he is in-situ or not, pays or not, is a useless drunk, or not. Failing having him "dealt with", which some of them deserve, or paying him off, you may be in for a long legal process, and Mickey is right when he refers to recent "American" situations, cos it may well affect you guys. I can't think that the courts here will look kindly on a foreigner taking away "one of theirs", if that's what you plan. Have you investigated the likelihood of being allowed to bring them both to Britain anyway? In my experience that is far from an easy process, even with a wife, let alone a fiancee with a child. Honestly, your expression of other things being easy may be naive. I was shocked to find that as a wealthy, settled, British homeowner, I was not free to bring my fiancee or wife into my country, without government intervention!
I wish you luck and will help if I can, my contacts are good and my wife is resourceful.
Good luck.
G

Shiny I know a lot about this, this is not a knee jerks etc, it is nice to hear you take a view without c()nting someone off,you sound like a very nice guy when you are not trying to get one over.

I know the process, I know what is involved, I speak Russian to Tam everyday

Alan65
09-03-2013, 02:15
Alan, ideally your fiance should have started this procedure long time ago. But If she didn't have any reasons then she has them now. So, calm down, let her go to the certain institutions to find out what she can do in this situation.

Potty ...please please please...I am am calm, I am taking this step by step, i am not getting excited, we are on a 2 years window here

Breathe in Breathe out

It is not a life and death situation with us, again the biggest issue is Tam and her starting school time in the UK, we are happy with what we have and Tam continuing school in St Petes.

We can work everything else out, there is only one priroty.


And that is Tam

yakspeare
09-03-2013, 02:19
just understand and be realistic that es you can marry the wife, yes you can raise the child, but n amunt of money is any guarantee that you will be successful in adoption and/or have the child leave Russia. It may yu have to move to Russia to keep your family together. If things work out differently, then fantastic and please share. but I know dozens and dozens of people(including myself) who have looked at it seriously or tried t(and almost every case the father didn't see the kids or pay alimony etc.)

wellhello
09-03-2013, 02:24
Alan you forget one minor point. This woman you want to marry has known this previous man i would assume a lot longer than you.

Now do not make an assumption that because he has not seen his child in 5 years that he is a bad father. On the other hand you should perhaps think that some fathers who are russian do not spend anytime with there children or want to be around there children A - because the mother wont allow it and B because the woman you think you know who you want to marry is not the woman you really believe she is and that is why the child does not have her real father in her life.

What you see and what you are told by people regarding dead beat fathers is not always the truth. There are 2 sides to a story. You only here the woman side.

Be carefull

Potty
09-03-2013, 02:25
but I know dozens and dozens of people(including myself) who have looked at it seriously or tried t(and almost every case the father didn't see the kids or pay alimony etc.)

what exactly was the problem?

Potty
09-03-2013, 02:26
What you see and what you are told by people regarding dead beat fathers is not always the truth. There are 2 sides to a story. You only here the woman side.

Be carefull

100% agree.

yakspeare
09-03-2013, 02:28
the general experience is if a russian ex husband says no to adoption or no the child can't leave the country, the judge will automatic make that ruling-the courts are incredibly reluctant to egotiate or overule that point. there doesn't have to be a good reason or any reason for the "no".

wellhello
09-03-2013, 02:31
She is telling you he is a dead beat father. It's what she wants you to hear. It's not necesscerily the truth! She sees only one thing. a free ride out the country and a better life for her child.

Question please first why she was divorced and why the father has no role in his child's life before you jump to making a life decision that does not benefit the child. It benefits only the mother.

Potty
09-03-2013, 02:32
but I know dozens and dozens of people(including myself) who have looked at it seriously or tried t(and almost every case the father didn't see the kids or pay alimony etc.)

I 've read a lot about it and talked a lot to different divorcees. But never had any practical experience. Yet) As I see it: you go to the court. Good if you know exactly the place where your ex works. Court sends letter to the accountant of the company where he works and alimony automatically are transferred to the mother's account. It's like one of the options. He gets unhappy, he is offered another option - adoption his child by another man and he doesn't have to pay anything in this case.

MickeyTong
09-03-2013, 02:32
On the other hand you should perhaps think that some fathers who are russian do not spend anytime with there children or want to be around there children A - because the mother wont allow it

A good point. I have mentioned to you that some ex-wives should be strangled (I wasn't entirely serious) and that's because some mothers use their kids as weapons against their ex-husbands.

I don't know Alan or his fiance (and my default assumption is that people are decent, reasonable and caring), so this may not be the situation in Alan's case. I sincerely hope not, and wish the three of them all the best.

Alan65
09-03-2013, 02:35
100% agree.

Thanks a lot....I might aswell give up now....happy womens day

Potty
09-03-2013, 02:36
the general experience is if a russian ex husband says no to adoption or no the child can't leave the country,

But it is a bad first step to do. I think the best is to start with deprivation of paternal rights

wellhello
09-03-2013, 02:40
If he does not want to give up his child then that in all honesty proves some point. Whether he accepted money or not to sign over documents neither determines that he still does not want nothing to do with the child.

Beating your head for such a period knowing you can't have anything to do with your child when it is not all entirely your fault can sometimes force a person to take a bribe upon money,yet still does not mean that is what the father is looking for a cash sum to sign over. It just means he is fed up and can drop so low to actually take it. It's called depression.

I am not judging alan or your misses but a lot lies deep within this and you will never know the truth when it involve someone gaining a better life. Lies are hidden always.

Alan65
09-03-2013, 02:40
I give up....please lock this thread, I wish I had never started to mention adoption etc, please give my future wife, her daughther and myself the time to deal with this in our own way.

I only asked out of interest, we will sort our own problems out.

Many thanks

Potty
09-03-2013, 02:42
Thanks a lot....I might aswell give up now....happy womens day

The good news is the bio father will get great benefits letting you adopt his child. He just doesn't know about it)) He lives in happiness and peace. You just have to tell him that it is just illusion.

Alan65
09-03-2013, 02:53
The good news is the bio father will get great benefits letting you adopt his child. He just doesn't know about it)) He lives in happiness and peace. You just have to tell him that it is just illusion.

marriage called off ...thanks

Jack17
09-03-2013, 10:25
Alan, congratulations! Wishing you and your fiance only happiness.

No cause for anxiety. I think Potty's advice is likely correct. The procedures in Russia don't sound that much different from the US. Likely very similar in the UK too I suppose. Though I've never done it; many Russians say bribes work in matters such as this. I suppose you could bribe the judge; probably better to try to bribe the biological father. If he takes the money, that will speak volumes about his true feelings for his child.

What is different is the attitude of many divorced Russian mothers and fathers to their children. There really doesn't seem to be any tradition of co-parenting of children by divorced parents in Russia. Sad.

yakspeare
09-03-2013, 12:32
the procedure is very diifferent Jack. you can't go to court to get a judgement to overturn paternal rights and declare a father unfit so easily, like you can do in the US or UK. The father's rights are pretty much absolute. yes bribery MAY work or even having the guy visited by heavies-but that isn't the UK or US traditional model. It IS a tough road if the father is being spiteful and a jerk and does nothing for the kids but won't let the kid leave the country or be adopted.

Ibanez
09-03-2013, 12:36
Alan, congratulations! Wishing you and your fiance only happiness.

No cause for anxiety. I think Potty's advice is likely correct. The procedures in Russia don't sound that much different from the US. Likely very similar in the UK too I suppose. Though I've never done it; many Russians say bribes work in matters such as this. I suppose you could bribe the judge; probably better to try to bribe the biological father. If he takes the money, that will speak volumes about his true feelings for his child.

What is different is the attitude of many divorced Russian mothers and fathers to their children. There really doesn't seem to be any tradition of co-parenting of children by divorced parents in Russia. Sad.

Jack, I think you missed his last post...

Alan, if true sorry to hear..

MashaSashina
09-03-2013, 12:53
In case the last post was not true, but just a claim to live Alan alone... Well, I'll ignore both meanings.
Alan, parental rights declining and adoptions will take months if not years. But if right now it is mostly about visa (in case you want to get visa ASAP), you should concentrate on father's permission, legal or not (I didn't tell you that, but the last time I heard about it it costed 500 or 700 euros), get a visa for the girl, follow your plans and solve bigger problems without a hurry. It is even possible that the father will give that permission for some money or because he just doesn't care where she lives.

Alan65
09-03-2013, 22:17
In case the last post was not true, but just a claim to live Alan alone... Well, I'll ignore both meanings.
Alan, parental rights declining and adoptions will take months if not years. But if right now it is mostly about visa (in case you want to get visa ASAP), you should concentrate on father's permission, legal or not (I didn't tell you that, but the last time I heard about it it costed 500 or 700 euros), get a visa for the girl, follow your plans and solve bigger problems without a hurry. It is even possible that the father will give that permission for some money or because he just doesn't care where she lives.

The last post was simply a FFS post so ignore it, BFF does not like me swearing ))

All is sweet, the whole thing about legals, cost etc are not a problem, i often wonder why people have international relationships if they can not afford them.

As to the negative post that all my fiancee wants to do is get into my wallet, well the same happens in the UK and the US.

Everything is being done above board in so far as we are creating a history, we know it is a step by step process, lawyers will be involved but their job is simply to reinforce the case.

In summary ....it can happen if you want to make it happen.

Hope all of you girls enjoyed your flowers and chocolates....now back to the kitchen for the lot of you )))):mml:

Alan65
09-03-2013, 22:23
Doesn't matter. Overdue on alimony payments is a very serious reason.
Статья 69 Семейного кодекса
http://www.consultant.ru/popular/family/20_15.html#p573

Thanks Potty, there is either a very stupid of wicked minded person that called this law 69 of the family code.....my bad translation :mml:

yakspeare
09-03-2013, 22:24
you will need a miracle. My whole point is no amount of money and time in the courts guarantees success if the father says no and you ought to be prepared for this. you might have to live in Russia if you want to be with your new wife and her daughter.

Alan65
09-03-2013, 22:25
Alan, congratulations! Wishing you and your fiance only happiness.

No cause for anxiety. I think Potty's advice is likely correct. The procedures in Russia don't sound that much different from the US. Likely very similar in the UK too I suppose. Though I've never done it; many Russians say bribes work in matters such as this. I suppose you could bribe the judge; probably better to try to bribe the biological father. If he takes the money, that will speak volumes about his true feelings for his child.

What is different is the attitude of many divorced Russian mothers and fathers to their children. There really doesn't seem to be any tradition of co-parenting of children by divorced parents in Russia. Sad.

Many thanks Jack, it may be a long and difficult road, but one worth taking.

Potty
09-03-2013, 23:10
you will need a miracle. My whole point is no amount of money and time in the courts guarantees success if the father says no and you ought to be prepared for this. you might have to live in Russia if you want to be with your new wife and her daughter.

You know how many are there Russian forums where men complain about "my bitchy ex wife sued me for alimony and now I can't buy a new car"? Or "my ex wife sued me for alimony but I have a loan for wedding and honeymoon with my new wife. What should I do?". If the bio father has an official income, new family with or without kids, he will give the permission for adoption. He won't fight for a child he hasn't seen for 5 years.

yakspeare
10-03-2013, 00:29
You know how many are there Russian forums where men complain about "my bitchy ex wife sued me for alimony and now I can't buy a new car"? Or "my ex wife sued me for alimony but I have a loan for wedding and honeymoon with my new wife. What should I do?". If the bio father has an official income, new family with or without kids, he will give the permission for adoption. He won't fight for a child he hasn't seen for 5 years.

That has not been my experience with Russian women at all nor that of my friends and others I know. And in all cases I knew the father never had an official salary that could have alimony taken from it.

Potty
10-03-2013, 00:50
the father never had an official salary that could have alimony taken from it.

Usually they have , but Small. Like 4000 rub or 8000. But 25 % from 8000 is 2000. Trust me, some people will hate for such amount of money. Anyway, you will never know until you find out.

yakspeare
10-03-2013, 01:04
yes they can hate that but the father(and father's family) isn't likely to give up n their "property" by way of adoption because a) they can be spiteful and not want the wife to be happy and remarried b) the child is theirs and people don't like something taken from them, even if they don't give it care themselves.

Also my ex brother in law is an example of how some men behave. he cheated on my sister and left and ran off with some girl from the internet and moved to another country. a decade later he started communicating with the kids and sending them toys , even though he never paid child support. My niece even moved overseas at 16 to live withhim(my sister had never told them what he did). He is a pig f a man but he would not give up his parental rights and only really became interested in the kids again when my sister remarried.

Potty
10-03-2013, 01:08
Anyway, I see Alan lost interest to this topic)))

robertmf
10-03-2013, 01:10
That has not been my experience with Russian women at all nor that of my friends and others I know. And in all cases I knew the father never had an official salary that could have alimony taken from it.

Here in PA (States differ) you come up with the p|alimony money -- or the state will pay the p|alimony and you will be in jail for 6 months. There is no tolerance.

Alan65
10-03-2013, 02:29
Anyway, I see Alan lost interest to this topic)))

Thats a bit harsh to say I have lost interest in adoption....perhaps I am just listening and filtering out the noise.

However does the concepts of "Decree nisi" and "Decree Absolute" exist in Russian law?

I am wondering how easy it would be to get a court hearing, somewhere in Russia where I simply know he could not attend.

wellhello
10-03-2013, 02:42
As to the negative post that all my fiancee wants to do is get into my wallet, well the same happens in the UK and the US.

Sorry you can't compare the same within the US and UK.
First of all ask her where she wants to live.

Trust me it ain't in russia.

And i am sure you are either from the US or the UK.

People within the states and the Uk do not feed upon a man for the ability to remain in there own current country.
There main obstacle is to find a man with wealth.
Russian women equate to both. New country + money.

You are rather blinded by the reality

Potty
10-03-2013, 03:01
Russian women equate to both. New country + money.



Sure. What else can people say about their ex spouses. But I predict that your next one will be Russian as well.

Jack17
10-03-2013, 03:10
Potty, I'm in Chicago right now and it's 5 pm. When do you sleep?

Maybe you're living in San Francisco?

wellhello
10-03-2013, 03:11
Sure. What else can people say about their ex spouses. But I predict that your next one will be Russian as well.

Wouldn't touch one with a bargepole. I say what i see within the country i have spent time in and how even russian people admit openly that they know there best option is to find a foreign man there.
If you can tell me what the stereo typical russian man is regarded as then there is your story. Ok apart from the well educated wealthy one's

I don't say it because i experienced it. I say it because it is sadly fact.

Alan65
10-03-2013, 03:16
Wouldn't touch one with a bargepole. I say what i see within the country i have spent time in and how even russian people admit openly that they know there best option is to find a foreign man there.
If you can tell me what the stereo typical russian man is regarded as then there is your story. Ok apart from the well educated wealthy one's

I don't say it because i experienced it. I say it because it is sadly fact.

Ahem ......the divorce thread is that way

wellhello
10-03-2013, 03:19
Ahem ......the divorce thread is that way

That's ok. If you need the toilet it's the third left on the right.

If needed extra paper do let me know :shamp:

Potty
10-03-2013, 03:24
Potty, I'm in Chicago right now and it's 5 pm. When do you sleep?

Maybe you're living in San Francisco?

It's 1:23 here. Yeah, I need to sleep.

Jack17
10-03-2013, 03:41
Спокойной ночи

yakspeare
10-03-2013, 08:59
Wouldn't touch one with a bargepole. I say what i see within the country i have spent time in and how even russian people admit openly that they know there best option is to find a foreign man there.
If you can tell me what the stereo typical russian man is regarded as then there is your story. Ok apart from the well educated wealthy one's

I don't say it because i experienced it. I say it because it is sadly fact.

Well I dated more in Russia than the rest of my life combined and none of the women were concerned with money or my passport in the least. 10-15 years ago a lot of women indeed wanted to get out of Russia but since that time a lot of Russians have actually travelled and discovered the streets of London aren't lined with gold etc and economic conditions in Russia have vastly improved. Sure the are some whoo are obsessed with everything American or British and have dreams of living there-but more would probably prefer Spain or Italy etc.

I gave up on Russian women a dozen times, there ARE some major cultural differences that can make relationships difficult. I can think of 2-3 relationships I screwed up(one in particular) and had I been smarter I think I would be married with them and happy. The vast majority hell no.

And yet, when deciding I ha d had enough of Russia and Russian femmes, and prepared to leave the country, I fell in love with a most unusual Russian woman who is rather different than the norm. In some areas she is still very Russian but is more western and liberal in her thinking in general. We are getting married and she will move to Istanbul where I currently reside. We will try and forge a life here but we could easily return to Russia if the need arises.

Hans.KK
10-03-2013, 14:41
First off all I will tell that yakspeare is very right when i say
but no amunt of money is any guarantee that you will be successful in adoption and/or have the child leave Russia.
And Potty had told
You can, if he doesn't pay alimony. Or alcohol\drugs addict.(I think you can make where it fits in).

This is a long process, and the outcome depend a lot about the father and his point of view and how proud he is.
If he pays what he must compare to his official income, and he have no huge problems with drugs/alcohol, and says "NO", is is like that, no way to change.

So play your cards well, start easy with him, ask for one permission to a holiday trip to Paris (DisneyLand is a god on there) for the child, and work your way up from there.
The most bad you can ask for is a trip to your home country, so wait some years (Yes I write years), ask for single trips, then after a year or two, ask for a one year permission to leave Russia (always keep the father informed about when the child is going to leave Russia, and do it in advance).

Even if the father do not care about the child he may still have his pride to take care about, something you have no chance to understand or even be able to predict, and that is a hard one to fight.

One more thing, you may have to change the way you speak about the father in that way that you always (even when you speak with your wife) address him in a neutral way, do not use "idiot", "fool" etc. and the reason is, one day the heat may get high and you may ending up calling him a name he will be hurt about hearing, and you have lost all on the floor.

May be it is vice to stay out of the view when mother and father has to meet to sign papers at the notary, and they will have do this more than onece.

And do not try to please the father with your money.

It may be necessary that you move to Russia and apply for TRP and then PRP, and after some years you can return.

Much will depend on the circumstances in your case, and miscellaneous adjustments may be necessary, but keep your head cold, be prepared it will take time.

yakspeare
10-03-2013, 15:00
good advice Hans!

Alan65
10-03-2013, 21:06
First off all I will tell that yakspeare is very right when i say
And Potty had told (I think you can make where it fits in).

This is a long process, and the outcome depend a lot about the father and his point of view and how proud he is.
If he pays what he must compare to his official income, and he have no huge problems with drugs/alcohol, and says "NO", is is like that, no way to change.

So play your cards well, start easy with him, ask for one permission to a holiday trip to Paris (DisneyLand is a god on there) for the child, and work your way up from there.
The most bad you can ask for is a trip to your home country, so wait some years (Yes I write years), ask for single trips, then after a year or two, ask for a one year permission to leave Russia (always keep the father informed about when the child is going to leave Russia, and do it in advance).

Even if the father do not care about the child he may still have his pride to take care about, something you have no chance to understand or even be able to predict, and that is a hard one to fight.

One more thing, you may have to change the way you speak about the father in that way that you always (even when you speak with your wife) address him in a neutral way, do not use "idiot", "fool" etc. and the reason is, one day the heat may get high and you may ending up calling him a name he will be hurt about hearing, and you have lost all on the floor.

May be it is vice to stay out of the view when mother and father has to meet to sign papers at the notary, and they will have do this more than onece.

And do not try to please the father with your money.

It may be necessary that you move to Russia and apply for TRP and then PRP, and after some years you can return.

Much will depend on the circumstances in your case, and miscellaneous adjustments may be necessary, but keep your head cold, be prepared it will take time.

Hans, we are starting from a good base, all we have to do is decide on a tactic....slowly slowly catch a monkey or simple shock and awe.

Arthuro
26-04-2013, 22:56
The most absurd thing here is that Russian law doesnt require anything from the father to let the girl leave the country ( unless he signed a refusal)
but the EU consulates do require this for a visa ( possibly justifying it with similar rules valid on Russian border which is not true=))

VicY
28-04-2013, 20:56
I don't say it because i experienced it. I say it because it is sadly fact.

You haven't experienced it but it is FACT?? What admirable logic.

What a bore. Another embittered male divorcee.

Yes, women may wish to move over to where ever their husband is from, or where ever he is currently settled. In fact, it happens all the time in international relationships!
Sometimes people live in places they will not particularly fancy, but their job placement or business is in that country, so the whole family moves.
I understand that in Alan's case, it is more convenient for him to live and work outside Russia, so naturally he'd wish his fiancee to come over with him.
If the man is the main breadwinner, it makes more sense to live in a place where he'll have more career/business opportunities, that's just natural.

Hans.KK
28-04-2013, 23:05
The most absurd thing here is that Russian law doesnt require anything from the father to let the girl leave the country ( unless he signed a refusal)
but the EU consulates do require this for a visa ( possibly justifying it with similar rules valid on Russian border which is not true=))
I hope I do misunderstand you, because the mother need the written notary verified permission to be able to bring her (and the fathers) child outside of Russia.
Done it, got the t-shirt, more than once.

Think about it, how on earth should the border guard know about a refusal?
It is so much easier to check that the permission is present, than to check up on a possible refusal.

But I would like to be corrected in case I am wrong, so if you are familiar with the law, please tell about it, a link to the law will do.

Alan65
30-04-2013, 14:38
You haven't experienced it but it is FACT?? What admirable logic.

What a bore. Another embittered male divorcee.

Yes, women may wish to move over to where ever their husband is from, or where ever he is currently settled. In fact, it happens all the time in international relationships!
Sometimes people live in places they will not particularly fancy, but their job placement or business is in that country, so the whole family moves.
I understand that in Alan's case, it is more convenient for him to live and work outside Russia, so naturally he'd wish his fiancee to come over with him.
If the man is the main breadwinner, it makes more sense to live in a place where he'll have more career/business opportunities, that's just natural.

As much as I would like to live in St Petes/Moscow etc unfortunately the numbers just don't work, I would be getting 25% of the salary I currently get AND paying 30% tax until I got TRP/PRP etc ...we would much prefer if I went to Russia it would be on a rotation role in the back and beyond of Siberia, which I would like.

But on a permanent basis, places like Qatar, Dubai. Hong Kong, Australia, South Africa etc where I can earn a similar salary, better accomodation, package, weather etc would be preferred.

Ant way the little one has her Schengen visa, Helsinki next weekend, UK visas next on the list.

Arthuro
01-05-2013, 08:33
I hope I do misunderstand you, because the mother need the written notary verified permission to be able to bring her (and the fathers) child outside of Russia.
Done it, got the t-shirt, more than once.

Think about it, how on earth should the border guard know about a refusal?
It is so much easier to check that the permission is present, than to check up on a possible refusal.

But I would like to be corrected in case I am wrong, so if you are familiar with the law, please tell about it, a link to the law will do.
google Закон о въезде и выезде
If a child travels with one of the parents, nothing is required.