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View Full Version : One for Russian Lad-Those lovely Saudis! ;-)



Nobbynumbnuts
12-02-2013, 21:55
Saw this in the Independent today. Now, we all know rapists and pedophiles can be found everywhere but take note of the Saudi legal system and how it discriminates against women and children in the most awful way.
Seeing is believing. Those lovely Saudis who can teach us so much.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/he-will-stay-in-prison-for-a-long-time-saudi-royal-family-intervenes-in-case-of-celebrity-preacher-released-after-paying-blood-money-despite-raping-and-torturing-daughter-to-death-8491812.html

He will stay in prison for a long time': Saudi royal family intervenes in case of 'celebrity' preacher released after paying blood money despite raping and torturing daughter to death

The Saudi royal family has intervened to block the release of a ‘celebrity’ preacher accused of raping, torturing and killing his five-year-old daughter.

Fayhan al-Ghamdi was set to be released after agreeing to pay “blood money” to the mother of his daughter Lama, who suffered multiple injuries including a crushed skull, broken back, broken ribs, a broken left arm and extensive bruising and burns. Social workers say she had also been repeatedly raped and burnt.

Al-Ghamdi, who regularly appears on Saudi television, admitted using a cane and cables to inflict the injuries after doubting his five-year-old daughter’s virginity and taking her to a doctor, according to the campaign group Women to Drive.

The case caused a scandal in Saudi Arabia, with public calls for the cleric to be put to death.

Despite the country’s notoriously strict legal system however, fathers cannot be executed for murdering their children, in the same way husbands cannot be executed for murdering their wives.

Rather than getting the death penalty or receiving a long prison sentence for the crime, Al-Ghamdi served only a few months in jail before a judge ruled the prosecution could only seek ‘blood money’.

Albawaba News reported the judge as saying: “Blood money and the time the defendant had served in prison since Lama's death suffices as punishment.”

Today, however, the Saudi Justice Ministry issued a statement saying the cleric remained in prison and the case was continuing.

The Times reported sources in the Saudi capital Riyadh as saying the royal family had been “stung” by the outrage over the case, with senior members intervening to ensure a stricter punishment is given.

One source told the newspaper, “The royal court is now looking at the case. He [Al-Ghamdi] will stay in prison for a long time.”

The 31,000 blood money Al-Ghamdi agreed to pay is considered compensation under Islamic law, although it is only half the amount that would have been paid had Lama been a boy.

Formal objections to the ruling were initially raised by three Saudi activists, and the twitter hashtag #AnaLama (which translates as I Am Lama) was set up.

In response to the public outrage over the case, Saudi authorities set up a 24-hour hotline to take calls about child abuse.

Jas
12-02-2013, 22:10
Saw this in the Independent today. Now, we all know rapists and pedophiles can be found everywhere but take note of the Saudi legal system and how it discriminates against women and children in the most awful way.
Seeing is believing. Those lovely Saudis who can teach us so much.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/he-will-stay-in-prison-for-a-long-time-saudi-royal-family-intervenes-in-case-of-celebrity-preacher-released-after-paying-blood-money-despite-raping-and-torturing-daughter-to-death-8491812.html

He will stay in prison for a long time': Saudi royal family intervenes in case of 'celebrity' preacher released after paying blood money despite raping and torturing daughter to death

The Saudi royal family has intervened to block the release of a ‘celebrity’ preacher accused of raping, torturing and killing his five-year-old daughter.

Fayhan al-Ghamdi was set to be released after agreeing to pay “blood money” to the mother of his daughter Lama, who suffered multiple injuries including a crushed skull, broken back, broken ribs, a broken left arm and extensive bruising and burns. Social workers say she had also been repeatedly raped and burnt.

Al-Ghamdi, who regularly appears on Saudi television, admitted using a cane and cables to inflict the injuries after doubting his five-year-old daughter’s virginity and taking her to a doctor, according to the campaign group Women to Drive.

The case caused a scandal in Saudi Arabia, with public calls for the cleric to be put to death.

Despite the country’s notoriously strict legal system however, fathers cannot be executed for murdering their children, in the same way husbands cannot be executed for murdering their wives.

Rather than getting the death penalty or receiving a long prison sentence for the crime, Al-Ghamdi served only a few months in jail before a judge ruled the prosecution could only seek ‘blood money’.

Albawaba News reported the judge as saying: “Blood money and the time the defendant had served in prison since Lama's death suffices as punishment.”

Today, however, the Saudi Justice Ministry issued a statement saying the cleric remained in prison and the case was continuing.

The Times reported sources in the Saudi capital Riyadh as saying the royal family had been “stung” by the outrage over the case, with senior members intervening to ensure a stricter punishment is given.

One source told the newspaper, “The royal court is now looking at the case. He [Al-Ghamdi] will stay in prison for a long time.”

The 31,000 blood money Al-Ghamdi agreed to pay is considered compensation under Islamic law, although it is only half the amount that would have been paid had Lama been a boy.

Formal objections to the ruling were initially raised by three Saudi activists, and the twitter hashtag #AnaLama (which translates as I Am Lama) was set up.

In response to the public outrage over the case, Saudi authorities set up a 24-hour hotline to take calls about child abuse.

Thanks for this. RL was swearing blind there is no such thing as rape and abuse in Saudia. What a joke that was. It made me want to punch the wall with frustration. If the victim was a maid from Pakistan or wherever- she cud always have been blamed of course. As it's a 5 year old Saudi child, even these pigs have to admit it's wrong.
It makes u want to weep.

Russian Lad
12-02-2013, 23:08
RL was swearing blind there is no such thing as rape and abuse in Saudia.

Can you quote me saying that please? Or you resort to libel again?
All I said there is a lot to learn from the Saudi society, I didn't say it has gotten rid of all the possible injustice and cruelty in the world. Besides, the royal family intervened, "he wil stay in prison for a long time", so what is this thread about then? It only emphasizes the effectiveness and unpartiality of the royal family there, it seems to me. TEHE.

Nobbynumbnuts
12-02-2013, 23:22
.....All I said there is a lot to learn from the Saudi society...............

Like what for example?
That a man can divorce a woman by merely saying three times, i divorce you. Women are not allowed to work, drive or travel without a guardian. A woman cannot give evidence in court. the list goes on and on.

Russian Lad
12-02-2013, 23:26
That a man can divorce a woman by merely saying three times, i divorce you. Women are not allowed to work, drive or travel without a guardian. A woman cannot give evidence in court. the list goes on and on.

Are you describing Paradise now or they really have all that in place?!

Jack17
12-02-2013, 23:39
I think RL was praising the degree to which another oil rich country, Saudi Arabia, in contrast to Russia, shares its oil wealth with its citizens. Since King Abdulaziz in the 1930's, it's been the policy of the kingdom to provide free or subsidized housing, health care, education, etc to its citizens. While there are 28M Saudis and 140M Russians, nevertheless, the standard of living of the average Saudi is much higher than the average Russian.

As for divorce, sure, any Saudi man is entitled to divorce any of his wives; the catch is, he still has to support them. It's really no different than here in California which has no fault divorce; anyone can divorce their spouse - but you pay!

Actually, I've lived in both countries and if I had to chose between the two, I'd chose Russia any day. Of course, I had money; if I was poor, Saudi might be the better choice. The problem with Saudi is it's a police state and it's Muslim - :yuk:

Russian Lad
12-02-2013, 23:50
I think RL was praising the degree to which another oil rich country, Saudi Arabia, in contrast to Russia, shares its oil wealth with its citizens. Since King Abdulaziz in the 1930's, it's been the policy of the kingdom to provide free or subsidized housing, health care, education, etc to its citizens. While there are 28M Saudis and 140M Russians, nevertheless, the standard of living of the average Saudi is much higher than the average Russian.

Yes, that was my main point. I am not suggesting to implement all their laws in Russia, some may be stupid or outdated, but like I said, there is a lot to learn from them. I didn't say we should copy them blindly.

Nobbynumbnuts
12-02-2013, 23:59
...but like I said, there is a lot to learn from them............

Yes, so you said on many occasions. You just haven't specified what exactly we can learn from them. So?

Jack17
13-02-2013, 00:18
Yes, so you said on many occasions. You just haven't specified what exactly we can learn from them. So?
Socialism

Nobbynumbnuts
13-02-2013, 00:19
I think RL was praising the degree to which another oil rich country, Saudi Arabia, in contrast to Russia, shares its oil wealth with its citizens. Since King Abdulaziz in the 1930's, it's been the policy of the kingdom to provide free or subsidized housing, health care, education, etc to its citizens. While there are 28M Saudis and 140M Russians, nevertheless, the standard of living of the average Saudi is much higher than the average Russian.

As for divorce, sure, any Saudi man is entitled to divorce any of his wives; the catch is, he still has to support them. It's really no different than here in California which has no fault divorce; anyone can divorce their spouse - but you pay!

Actually, I've lived in both countries and if I had to chose between the two, I'd chose Russia any day. Of course, I had money; if I was poor, Saudi might be the better choice. The problem with Saudi is it's a police state and it's Muslim - :yuk:

Any Saudi man is entitled to divorce his wife? Fine. Are his wives allowed to divorce him? No, not unless exceptional circumstances are involved. Can she divorce him by telling him three time, i divorce you? No.
In theory a man is supposed to support his divorced wife but in practice this doesn't usually happen. It's left to her family to support her.
It's no different from California? PMSL. Stop, your killing me! :D

You've lived in both countries and you'd prefer to live in Russia? Did you work that out all by yourself? ;)

The problem is not so much that the country is Muslim, it's Saudi Arabia's customs, which are not all muslim.

Nobbynumbnuts
13-02-2013, 00:23
Socialism

Jack, your as daft as RL. ;)

Jack17
13-02-2013, 01:03
How so? How do you suppose the Saudi Royal family has remained in power all these years? Answer: They've engineered a very generous social contract with their people; that's all that RL is advocating.

As for, "a man is supposed to support his divorced wife but in practice this doesn't usually happen" that's anecdotal at best.

Look, we've both lived in Saudi and neither of us like it; but from the perspective of your average Saudi, life's much better than it was 60 years ago and the standard of living is relatively high compared to most (all?) of the world. If I'm a woman? Well, I wouldn't want to be a woman in any Muslim country.

But compare Saudi to Russia; free education, subsidized housing, free medical care, free dental care (Hell, just think if you Brits had that! It would take a million dentists to correct all the bites and rotten teeth in the UK). No, the Saudis have built a rather neat socialist society.

Russian Lad
13-02-2013, 02:32
You just haven't specified what exactly we can learn from them. So?

Well, Jack said it all. He calls it socialism, I call it a balanced distribution of wealth. I don't believe that, say, Abramovich or Alekperov are 1000000000 times smarter or more industrious than I am, but our bank accounts differ by about this multiplier, plus or minus three zeros. They enrich themselves (ab)using the natural resources of the country I live in as well. It is all about the social justice and balance.


Jack, your as daft as RL.

That's surely a valid argument in a debate... You want to open a name-slinging contest? Ok, you are as dumb as a tap dancer in a minefield and as daft as [-]RichardB[/-] a daffodil. Happy now?

Nobbynumbnuts
13-02-2013, 03:19
Well, Jack said it all. He calls it socialism, I call it a balanced distribution of wealth. I don't believe that, say, Abramovich or Alekperov are 1000000000 times smarter or more industrious than I am, but our bank accounts differ by about this multiplier, plus or minus three zeros. They enrich themselves (ab)using the natural resources of the country I live in as well. It is all about the social justice and balance.



That's surely a valid argument in a debate... You want to open a name-slinging contest? Ok, you are as dumb as a tap dancer in a minefield and as daft as [-]RichardB[/-] a daffodil. Happy now?

When you've finished blowing Jack perhaps you'll put forward an argument of your own. ;)

A balanced distribution of wealth? Your as daft as a brush! :D
The house of Saud, the ruling family, own Saudi Arabia. They are the government. All the kings brothers, cousins and family members are in all the positions of power. There are approximately 1000 princes running around in Saudi Arabia. That's how large the ruling family is.
Saudi Arabia is one the most corrupt nations on earth, on a par with Russia. It's not a kindly benefactor of the people. The average Saudi is actually quite poor and relies on crumbs cast to them. Those that are wealthy are connected or business men.
The ruling family stay in power by courting the religious leaders, through the police and army and giving crumbs to the population.

robertmf
13-02-2013, 03:26
... The ruling family stay in power by courting the religious leaders, through the police and army and giving crumbs to the population.

:7534: My take is the house of saud would be internally overthrown or invaded by arab brethren, if not for US military presence.

Russian Lad
13-02-2013, 04:13
The average Saudi is actually quite poor and relies on crumbs cast to them.

You can as well put "the average Russian" in there, however, per capita income in this country is much higher, 5-7 times higher than in Russia, whatever report you care to read.


When you've finished blowing Jack
Oh, that's how you call agreeing with someone else's opinion? How many times have you been beaten up into pulpy unconsciousness in Russia? I am just wondering, given your attitude. Or you are that brave and giving lip to people you hardly know or don't know at all only on public forums?

RichardB
13-02-2013, 04:55
Ok, you are as dumb as a tap dancer in a minefield and as daft as [-]RichardB[/-] a daffodil. Happy now?

Oi! :D

Russian Lad
13-02-2013, 06:14
Oi!

Well, you thanked him for calling Jack daft.:) On my part this response is much more polite rather than saying something like "After you are done blowing Nobby...".:rasta:

Nobbynumbnuts
13-02-2013, 07:20
:7534: My take is the house of saud would be internally overthrown or invaded by arab brethren, if not for US military presence.


There's not much US military there these days. Special ops and advisors but not many troops on the ground.
One of the reasons for discontent was the number of US troops in the kingdom post Gulf war. They've pretty much gone now.

Nobbynumbnuts
13-02-2013, 07:44
You can as well put "the average Russian" in there, however, per capita income in this country is much higher, 5-7 times higher than in Russia, whatever report you care to read.


Oh, that's how you call agreeing with someone else's opinion? How many times have you been beaten up into pulpy unconsciousness in Russia? I am just wondering, given your attitude. Or you are that brave and giving lip to people you hardly know or don't know at all only on public forums?

Again, your talking out of your blow hole.
GDP per capita in Russia is 17,700 US$ per annum
GDP per capita in Saudi Arabia is 25,700 US$ per annum
If one considers the population of Russia is 142,000,000 and the population of Saudi Arabia is 16,000,000 you can see the average Saudi is not really benefiting from the oil wealth. In fact there is high unemployment amongst Saudi youth and is running at about 10% of the work force. Saudis are nowhere near as rich as you imagine they are. Infact I saw beggars on the streets when I was there last year and quite a lot of poverty. So much for your socialist utopia.

You were the one that claimed we could learn from the Saudis. I'm still waiting for some coherent argument instead of just agreeing with Jack.

Jack17
13-02-2013, 11:26
Again, your talking out of your blow hole.

Is there something in the water in the UK that causes Brits to be so obnoxious and rude? Seriously, 99% of all Brits I've ever met are simply belligerent. Is it too many people living on top of one another on a small island that creates the hostility? I honestly don't know what it is.

Anyway Nobby, I'm not going to repeat myself; if you want an argument you'll find a perfectly good one in my previous post.

TolkoRaz
13-02-2013, 11:48
But compare Saudi to Russia; free education, subsidized housing, free medical care, free dental care (Hell, just think if you Brits had that! It would take a million dentists to correct all the bites and rotten teeth in the UK). No, the Saudis have built a rather neat socialist society.

How many socialist countries have many 1,000s of Princes & Princesses? :confused:

TolkoRaz
13-02-2013, 11:53
You were the one that claimed we could learn from the Saudis.

Anybody who has lived or worked in the KSA would understand that the country would collapse without the benefit of expatriate experience, skills and management of enterprises.

In the main, Saudis are a lazy bunch who heavily rely on expatriates to get the oil out of the ground to running the local car dealerships.

Russian Lad
13-02-2013, 12:07
GDP per capita in Russia is 17,700 US$ per annum

That's true only for Moscow probably.

bydand
13-02-2013, 12:16
GDP/capita only shows how much a country makes, divided by the population of that country. It tells nothing about distribution. Neither would average income. One person could get all of it, the rest diddly squat.

Jas
13-02-2013, 12:30
Saudia is in a lot of me writing actually- but it's not autoboigraphical- cos as u know, I don't want to write about me past as such. Anyhow, here is how it does appear in me fictional writing.

a) A Muslim girl preching scientific rationalism concludes there is no god while on Hajj. Years later, returning to Makkah, the apostate begins to preach objectivism and her supporters barricade themselves into the area around prophet's mosque. There she preaches for sixty years, through sun, rain, and sandstroms- until fanatics storm her stronghold and murder her. But the djiini is out of the bottle- and Islam's days are numbered.

b) Nordland invades Saudia in 2042 to deny China and America oil supplies. The iron legions place on the Kingdom's throne a Pakistani pop singer named Shereen who rules the Saudis with a rod of iron. As the Americans liberate the country from Nordland's retreating armies, Shereen orders all male Saudis put to death by use of a special 'Chromosome Gas.' The female survivors, unable to fend for themselves, are deported to Nordland's arctic north where most perish within months.
*This is just 1 boook in a whole series I am planning.

c) With America surrounded by the oceanic waves of the developing world, the President gives one last desperate order: a special squad must go back centuries to cripple the source of the besieger's strength. A special plane capable of time warp, transports a kill team to 7th century Arabia- their mission: to assassinate the founder. Once in Arabia, the sniper team soon find their target but become divided as to whether it is moral to kill him. They turn on each other. A girl sergeant (Michelle Rodriguez in the movie of me book)- does however get off a kill shot. Returning to America in 2090, the two survivors receive a heroes' welcome. There are no billions of invaders about to descend on America- because there is no Islam. It never existed. Then, in horror, the two survivors see the President preparing a dagger as surrounded by his Aztec priests, he orders the two soldiers to be united with the God of the Sun at the Temple to the Stars on Capitol Hill.

peppermintpaddy
13-02-2013, 12:36
Ive read somewhere there are actually 30,000 members of the royal family in KSA.....and there are lots of poor people indeed....So a "cleric" gets off with it coz its legal to murder your own children in KSA!......all because its allowed in a 5th Century book written by a paedophile.....cue Yak Tolko and Nobby to tell me how Islam is actually a religion of peace......and this is the exception ,not the Rule hahahah....Its certainly the Rule in the sacred home of Islam ........save it lads....I know whats coming.

Russian Lad
13-02-2013, 12:38
So a "cleric" gets off with it coz its legal to murder your own children in KSA!

If you bother to read the article, he did not get off with it actually.

Jas
13-02-2013, 12:40
Ok guys this is the music from book C, about the kill team and its mission to save the world (which sort of goes wong by changing time so the Aztecs come to power instead of the Muslims).
Only, I want this movie to be filmed by Disney. No one can do what I want except Disney. I don't want it to be just a RenTV or TV3 sci b grade movie- I want it to be classic DISNEY.

Two Steps From Hell - Sky Titans - YouTube

Jas
13-02-2013, 12:43
PP, I wud think u wud be a great fan of my books actually.

Russian Lad
13-02-2013, 12:44
GDP/capita only shows how much a country makes, divided by the population of that country. It tells nothing about distribution. Neither would average income. One person could get all of it, the rest diddly squat.

Listen, 80% of the Russian money is in Moscow, the remaining 130 million people get only 20% to play with. That's why everything related to Moscow is hated in Russia, Saint Petersburg is always respected. If I go to a town like Saratov or Rostov, I may be even beaten if I say I am from Moscow, just for that, at least I have seen that happen. This average for Moscow differs a lot from the average even in Saint Pete. Being from Saint Pete is a privilege, though, it is associated with culture, (ONE!) soccer team and clever mafia even in remote Siberian towns, Moscow is only associated with filth, greed, stolen money, corruption and onflow of people from the mountains.:)

Jas
13-02-2013, 12:47
Not impossible America has such a plane even. I think they got it and it's at AREA 51.
What does that plane do exactly?
It can fly around the sun.
It uses the power of the sun to warp space and thusly time also and it can go back centuries and change history.

Jas
13-02-2013, 12:57
Like with literary agents and stuff, I got some good advice based on me resume which includes plots like those what I outlined above.
Do u know what they told?
I shud do a graphic novel.

I can't draw though. I cud do the storyline and scripts- but the rest I wud have to outsource somehow.

Jas
13-02-2013, 13:13
Let's get this straight. All Sharia' authorities allow underage marriage- even if the kid is 1 year old, or less. Here it is from a Saudi imam. This is the norm there.Next point? This sexualization of *everything*- even kids- led directly to the death of the child in Nobby's article. C, the father saw his daughter as a sex object, not as a child, hence his fury and suspicions at her alleged 'adultery' at just 5 years old. Murder is one spin off from this. So is a gross lack of freedom not only for women, but for girls, and for young kids.
I'm not going to waste me time debating with RL.
But I do thank those who are looking at this with *experience* such as Tolki and Nobby. PP is not rong here either. Listen for urself. Any criticism of underage marriage is regraded as unIslamic and cud easily lead to murder also. That's the situation in a rape culture imposed by men where women and girls are brainwashed into total obedience.

Islam Permits Sex with One-Year-Old Girls - YouTube

Russian Lad
13-02-2013, 13:17
Who really cares, Jas? Is it necessary to spam here?

Jas
13-02-2013, 13:24
Who really cares, Jas? Is it necessary to spam here?

We care. We're out to role back the tide of this Islamist filth wherever we find it.

bydand
13-02-2013, 13:42
Listen, 80% of the Russian money is in Moscow, the remaining 130 million people get only 20% to play with. That's why everything related to Moscow is hated in Russia, Saint Petersburg is always respected. If I go to a town like Saratov or Rostov, I may be even beaten if I say I am from Moscow, just for that, at least I have seen that happen. This average for Moscow differs a lot from the average even in Saint Pete. Being from Saint Pete is a privilege, though, it is associated with culture, (ONE!) soccer team and clever mafia even in remote Siberian towns, Moscow is only associated with filth, greed, stolen money, corruption and onflow of people from the mountains.:)

We're making the same point. By the way, in Kashin we don't like Muscovites either.

Jas
13-02-2013, 13:58
Guys, this is a site u shud check out.

http://ex-muslim.org.uk/

peppermintpaddy
13-02-2013, 15:08
Let's get this straight. All Sharia' authorities allow underage marriage- even if the kid is 1 year old, or less. Here it is from a Saudi imam. This is the norm there.Next point? This sexualization of *everything*- even kids- led directly to the death of the child in Nobby's article. C, the father saw his daughter as a sex object, not as a child, hence his fury and suspicions at her alleged 'adultery' at just 5 years old. Murder is one spin off from this. So is a gross lack of freedom not only for women, but for girls, and for young kids.
I'm not going to waste me time debating with RL.
But I do thank those who are looking at this with *experience* such as Tolki and Nobby. PP is not rong here either. Listen for urself. Any criticism of underage marriage is regraded as unIslamic and cud easily lead to murder also. That's the situation in a rape culture imposed by men where women and girls are brainwashed into total obedience.

Islam Permits Sex with One-Year-Old Girls - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsExiAbCk1A)

Thanx Jas,as I keep saying-a filthy Religion founded by a paedophile....no wonder the Moslem Paedophile gangs in the UK feel its their "right" to rape young Christian girls......RL-Anything other than execution for killing his daughter is "getting of with it"....People have been executed in KSA for blasphemy.....

Hey Yak,come and defend your Islamic mates with your usual weasely words.....you too Tolko,youre another spineless apologist for these pieces of s***......you got anything to say?
Course Rus will never say a word against Islam,coz they believe in the same God as he does.....unbelievers are greater "sinners" to Rus than rapists and paedophiles.....(he'll never admit it tho',instead he'll write pages of waffle on how we're all "sinners")

Russian Lad
13-02-2013, 15:10
To say that nothing positive may come from a Muslim country is simply ridiculous, biased and racist. Frankly, to me both Islam and Christianity seem equally stupid and even dangerous fairy tales, so what?

RichardB
13-02-2013, 16:41
3 posts that bear absolutely no relevance to the topic under discussion?

yakspeare
13-02-2013, 17:45
Thanx Jas,as I keep saying-a filthy Religion founded by a paedophile....no wonder the Moslem Paedophile gangs in the UK feel its their "right" to rape young Christian girls......RL-Anything other than execution for killing his daughter is "getting of with it"....People have been executed in KSA for blasphemy.....

Hey Yak,come and defend your Islamic mates with your usual weasely words.....you too Tolko,youre another spineless apologist for these pieces of s***......you got anything to say?
Course Rus will never say a word against Islam,coz they believe in the same God as he does.....unbelievers are greater "sinners" to Rus than rapists and paedophiles.....(he'll never admit it tho',instead he'll write pages of waffle on how we're all "sinners")

what ıs there to defend? ı have consıstently argued agaınst wahbısm and stated that the export of Saudı ıslam to other regıons ıs one of the greatest threats we have today.

By the way, i had an interesting discussion with some turks the other day and they mentioned something i had to check also in Jewish law and it checks out too. Girls were not registered of had their age recorded until they were 10-12 years old in those days. There are some things impossible for children so young, and a literally reading of the text without context creates error. Rebecca in the Hebrew bible also has the same error. But if you read the text you realize she was performing tasks-like carrying water for the men and filling all the water troughs for the camels, that no 3 year old could do.

Such texts are used by detractors but it is likely that Muhommed's wife was around 16 years old-and of course Rebecca was much older too. Muhommed might have been many things, including what you suggest, but the marriage to Aisha does not.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth

TolkoRaz
13-02-2013, 18:43
Hey Yak,come and defend your Islamic mates with your usual weasely words.....you too Tolko,youre another spineless apologist for these pieces of s***......you got anything to say?

LOL! Spineless?

Its better than having webbed feet! :p

Jas
13-02-2013, 18:48
LOL! Spineless?

Its better than having webbed feet! :p

Tolki, I don't agree with pp's conclusions om immigrants in the UK, obviously. However, there are points what he makes that are borne out by the facts and I think that shud be acknolwedged and stuff. PP wud be best also to visit the link I posted to the councilofexmuslims where he can meet people who wud make him feel he's not just banging his head against a wall.

Jas
13-02-2013, 18:53
what ıs there to defend? ı have consıstently argued agaınst wahbısm and stated that the export of Saudı ıslam to other regıons ıs one of the greatest threats we have today.

By the way, i had an interesting discussion with some turks the other day and they mentioned something i had to check also in Jewish law and it checks out too. Girls were not registered of had their age recorded until they were 10-12 years old in those days. There are some things impossible for children so young, and a literally reading of the text without context creates error. Rebecca in the Hebrew bible also has the same error. But if you read the text you realize she was performing tasks-like carrying water for the men and filling all the water troughs for the camels, that no 3 year old could do.

Such texts are used by detractors but it is likely that Muhommed's wife was around 16 years old-and of course Rebecca was much older too. Muhommed might have been many things, including what you suggest, but the marriage to Aisha does not.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth



Yak, that article is a total joke when u have the Saudi ulema and the Pakistani mullahs screaming the exact opposite. By the way, the author ure touting as someone who knows better than the *highest* authorities in Islam- only became a Muslim in fcking 2003.
GET REAL.

TolkoRaz
13-02-2013, 18:54
Fine Ms Jas, but PP does not need to be so vitriolic about it and calling people spineless etc.

I may be a pensioner, but I am far from being a coward! :ninja:

Jas
13-02-2013, 18:59
Fine Ms Jas, but PP does not need to be so vitriolic about it and calling people spineless etc.

I may be a pensioner, but I am far from being a coward! :ninja:

Tolki, isn't it true that the number of attacks on women has increased in Tahrir and that the Islamists are using their ideas to justify these attacks?
Can u explain the situation to Yak? Can u tell him what happens to women who walk alone in Riyadh or ISB- and how when they're attacked- it's jutsified and they're the one's blamed?
Can u explain the atmosphere of sexual oppression and agression that pervades any place where Islamism gets a grip?

TolkoRaz
13-02-2013, 19:16
Tolki, isn't it true that the number of attacks on women has increased in Tahrir and that the Islamists are using their ideas to justify these attacks?
Can u explain the situation to Yak? Can u tell him what happens to women who walk alone in Riyadh or ISB- and how when they're attacked- it's jutsified and they're the one's blamed?
Can u explain the atmosphere of sexual oppression and agression that pervades any place where Islamism gets a grip?

I am not sure why the attacks are happening, but I was aware of the young blonde US Anchorwoman who was seriously molested in January / February 2011 during the Revolution in 'Freedom' Square. Last Year, I also witnessed a Western lady brought back to her hotel totally naked having had all of her clothes ripped off her in the Square. This well known threat to Western & Egyptian women is widely publicized on Western Government Websites which offer travel advice - I certainly advise my female clients to stay well away from the Square and from all demonstrations etc

Of course to make matters worse and since the Revolution, in Egypt there is no Law & Order, the Police are ineffective, large parts of the Northern Sinai are now controlled by the Bedouin or Islamists - in fact, Mursi has almost given el Arish etc to the Palestinians etc! ;) The Police are very much second class citizens and their is no respect for authority - Only the Army can instill order, but for Cairo, they are waiting in the wings and will only deploy at the last moment thereby further weakening the low level of respect for the Police & Interior Minister etc - its all part of the game plan :book:

Ladies in Egypt are attacked, but there are also many lovely looking ladies, still in western dress / jeans etc wandering around. Of course, there are also many female tourists.

However, in the KSA there are many cases of rape against wives, daughters and Pakistani, Indian, Philippino maids - some maids never leave the house, but are kept as slaves - barbaric and horrific to think that still goes on! :(

Women in the Muslim World do tend to be second best with very few rights or protection, but there are degrees. The KSA must be one of the worst places to be born a girl, but countries such as The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan is fine - they are Muslim, but moderate in their beliefs. Most ladies I know there are very happy with their 'open' life :)

Jas
13-02-2013, 19:26
I am not sure why the attacks are happening, but I was aware of the young blonde US Anchorwoman who was seriously molested in January / February 2011 during the Revolution in 'Freedom' Square. Last Year, I also witnessed a Western lady brought back to her hotel totally naked having had all of her clothes ripped off her in the Square. This well known threat to Western & Egyptian women is widely publicized on Western Government Websites which offer travel advice - I certainly advise my female clients to stay well away from the Square and from all demonstrations etc

Of course to make matters worse and since the Revolution, in Egypt there is no Law & Order, the Police are ineffective, large parts of the Northern Sinai are now controlled by the Bedouin or Islamists - in fact, Mursi has almost given el Arish etc to the Palestinians etc! ;) The Police are very much second class citizens and their is no respect for authority - Only the Army can instill order, but for Cairo, they are waiting in the wings and will only deploy at the last moment thereby further weakening the low level of respect for the Police & Interior Minister etc - its all part of the game plan :book:

Ladies in Egypt are attacked, but there are also many lovely looking ladies, still in western dress / jeans etc wandering around. Of course, there are also many female tourists.

However, in the KSA there are many cases of rape against wives, daughters and Pakistani, Indian, Philippino maids - some maids never leave the house, but are kept as slaves - barbaric and horrific to think that still goes on! :(

Women in the Muslim World do tend to be second best with very few rights or protection, but there are degrees. The KSA must be one of the worst places to be born a girl, but countries such as The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan is fine - they are Muslim, but moderate in their beliefs. Most ladies I know there are very happy with their 'open' life :)


Thank you this.
Here's something on Tahrir http://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/sex-attacks-against-women-tahrir-185716750.html

This is on Jordan. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2802305.stm

yakspeare
13-02-2013, 20:28
The wahbiss built a stack f schools in Pakistan and Afghanistan and exported their style of islam to it. So Pakistan and the Sauds are much the same and I have little time for either of them. But having lived in muslim Indonesia, muslim Uzbekistan, the northern Caucaus of Russia 1 mile from a muslim republic and now living in muslim Turkey-my experience with muslims and islam is vastly different to your own. Plus of course I grew up with muslims in Australia with a fairly high percentage of them at my high school. My high school best friend was Andrew Baksh ffrom Pakistan, incidentally. A muslim. My Arabic teacher and one of the nicest people you could ever meet, is a Jordanian muslim and quite devout. And I have know him for several years, he will be a best man at my wedding and he would never hurt a woman.

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2013, 12:32
Is there something in the water in the UK that causes Brits to be so obnoxious and rude? Seriously, 99% of all Brits I've ever met are simply belligerent. Is it too many people living on top of one another on a small island that creates the hostility? I honestly don't know what it is.

Anyway Nobby, I'm not going to repeat myself; if you want an argument you'll find a perfectly good one in my previous post.

No Jack Brits are not all obnoxious and rude, just me when i run into a flamer and that's what RL is, really. He posts nonsense just to get a reaction. Well he got one! ;) No one in their right mind mind could believe the twaddle he posts!
And i can't believe you agree with him!! ;)

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2013, 12:35
Anybody who has lived or worked in the KSA would understand that the country would collapse without the benefit of expatriate experience, skills and management of enterprises.

In the main, Saudis are a lazy bunch who heavily rely on expatriates to get the oil out of the ground to running the local car dealerships.

At last someone else talking sense. Someone who has been there and knows what they are talking about.

You'd think others would at least do a little research before posting wouldn't you?

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2013, 12:42
That's true only for Moscow probably.

At the top of your screen is a search button. Type in Russian GDP. It's easy and would help prevent you posting some of the nonsense you do.

GDP means Gross Domestic Product. It will be the figure for Russia. GDP per Capita means the GDP divided by the amount of people living in the country. A quick and easy way to get a snapshot of a countries wealth, per person.

Clear now?

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2013, 12:44
GDP/capita only shows how much a country makes, divided by the population of that country. It tells nothing about distribution. Neither would average income. One person could get all of it, the rest diddly squat.

As explained it's a snap shot of the country and not a detailed breakdown. BUT the population of Moscow is around 10-12 million, Russia as a whole is 140 million.

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2013, 12:55
Listen, 80% of the Russian money is in Moscow, the remaining 130 million people get only 20% to play with...............

Sounds like it might be true but anyone who takes a second to think about it would reaslise it's more utter nonsense pulled from a hat.

The Moscow economy is not 5 times the size of the rest of the country.

Russian Lad
14-02-2013, 13:51
At the top of your screen is a search button. Type in Russian GDP. It's easy and would help prevent you posting some of the nonsense you do.

GDP means Gross Domestic Product. It will be the figure for Russia. GDP per Capita means the GDP divided by the amount of people living in the country. A quick and easy way to get a snapshot of a countries wealth, per person.

Clear now?

I was talking about wealth distribution however. Imagine there are 100 people and every day they need to divide 100 apples between themselves. Well, in Russia 1 person gets 95 apples and the other 99 people have to divide the remaining 5 apples among themselves. In KSA the distribution system seems to be much better.


Sounds like it might be true but anyone who takes a second to think about it would reaslise it's more utter nonsense pulled from a hat.

The Moscow economy is not 5 times the size of the rest of the country.


You evidently know jack shit about Russian economy. It is not about the size of Moscow economy, it is about political, economic and nowadays even religious control, it is about cash flows, including taxes.
An article from 2004, not much has changed in this respect since then, if anything, it has gotten even worse:
"80% of Russian money circulates in Moscow, because 80% of all decisions are taken in the capital."
http://www.moigorod.ru/news/details.asp?rnd=8Mn3kZ&n=2146368894

A census from 2012 -82% of Russians believe Moscow lives at the expense of other regions:
http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/1029851/

You seem to portray yourself as an expert on Russia, however, you lack ABC knowledge of the most primitive kind regarding its economy and the way it functions. Talk about twaddle...

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2013, 14:03
.....In KSA the distribution system seems to be much better.




You evidently know jack shit about Russian economy. It is not about the size of Moscow economy, it is about political, economic and nowadays even religious control, it is about cash flows, including taxes.

The distribution system, as you put it, in Russia and KSA are the same.
Politics, religion and taxes are not included in GDP numbers
80% of the population probably believes that Wanking is in China....doesn't make it a fact, fortunately.

Russian Lad
14-02-2013, 14:17
The distribution system, as you put it, in Russia and KSA are the same.

What Jack described, doesn't seem like we have it in Russia.


80% of the population probably believes that Wanking is in China....doesn't make it a fact, fortunately.

Forget about the population, read up on the economic and political system in Russia yourself. Give me links debunking my claim, at least one.

Suuryaa
14-02-2013, 14:51
I was talking about wealth distribution however. Imagine there are 100 people and every day they need to divide 100 apples between themselves. Well, in Russia 1 person gets 95 apples and the other 99 people have to divide the remaining 5 apples among themselves.

Yes, this is how it is. I see people trying to live off that tiny bit of the apple. When they get 15,000 a month and have to pay 6,000-9,000 only for their flats utilities. And there are people whose salaries are 8,000. I can't imagine how they live.

Nobbynumbnuts
14-02-2013, 15:08
What Jack described, doesn't seem like we have it in Russia.



Forget about the population, read up on the economic and political system in Russia yourself. Give me links debunking my claim, at least one.

Forget about the population? How can you do that when we're discussing the GDP per capita

AstarD
14-02-2013, 15:22
Definition of 'Per Capita GDP '
A measure of the total output of a country that takes the gross domestic product (GDP) and divides it by the number of people in the country. The per capita GDP is especially useful when comparing one country to another because it shows the relative performance of the countries. A rise in per capita GDP signals growth in the economy and tends to translate as an increase in productivity.

Investopedia explains 'Per Capita GDP '
The gross domestic product (GDP) is one of the primary indicators of a country's economic performance. It is calculated by either adding up everyone's income during the period or by adding the value of all final goods and services produced in the country during the year. Per capita GDP is sometimes used as an indicator of standard of living as well, with higher per capita GDP being interpreted as having a higher standard of living.


Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/per-capita-gdp.asp#ixzz2Ks6GFDzi

Russian Lad
14-02-2013, 19:30
Forget about the population, read up on the economic and political system in Russia yourself. Give me links debunking my claim, at least one.
Forget about the population? How can you do that when we're discussing the GDP per capita

You have completely ceased to follow the thread, including your own words. Are you drunk maybe? I was referring to this statement of yours:


80% of the population probably believes that Wanking is in China....doesn't make it a fact, fortunately.
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