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Potty
05-02-2013, 14:06
After they got married. To change or not to change? Does a man feel proud when his wife takes his last name?

yakspeare
05-02-2013, 14:10
damn straight we are proud but we hate it when we divorce them and they don't change it back!

Potty
05-02-2013, 14:12
we hate it when we divorce them and they don't change it back!

are you serious? or is it a joke?

Tatiana545
05-02-2013, 14:26
As I am the only child, I would be happy to keep my last name after the marriage. But if this issue is so important for the man's self-esteem and if his last name is not horrible, I'll change mine, no big deal.
:queen:

mrzuzzo
05-02-2013, 14:39
I would not marry a girl if she didn't change her last name.

The point is, after marriage, you are one family. And one family should have one family name. Simple as that.

Potty
05-02-2013, 14:44
I would not marry a girl if she didn't change her last name.

You're so predictable )

NotMe
05-02-2013, 14:45
After they got married. To change or not to change? Does a man feel proud when his wife takes his last name?

My female friend had some neutral russian maiden name.

Her first husband had such harmonious and rare last name, that the question to change or not could't even arose. All ladies would be envy her last name. ;)

Then, she met her second husband and you would be surprised, but his last name was even better.

When she gave him a daughter, she told us : "Our daugther has "royal" name and surname".

Potty
05-02-2013, 14:46
And one family should have one family name.

why?

Potty
05-02-2013, 14:48
All ladies would be envy her last name. ;)

Then, she met her second husband and you would be surprised, but his last name was even better.

Zaintrigovala!!

NotMe
05-02-2013, 14:51
I would not marry a girl if she didn't change her last name.

The point is, after marriage, you are one family. And one family should have one family name. Simple as that.

I will never get you married! :D

BTW, I suppose that sometimes children should have a choice, especially if their father's last name leaves much to be desired. :p

Potty
05-02-2013, 14:54
BTW, I suppose that sometimes children should have a choice, especially if their father's last name leaves much to be desired. :p

I knew a girl who had a fiance with last name Zhabin. I guess no way their children have this last name now.

NotMe
05-02-2013, 14:57
I knew a girl who had a fiance with last name Zhabin. I guess no way their children have this last name now.

He-he.

What about Pupkin, Svin'in etc?
I would't like my daugther sounded like Masha Svin'ina or Pupkina.

Potty
05-02-2013, 15:05
He-he.

What about Pupkin, Svin'in etc?

Missis Zuzzo )
Well, I think you are not 100% right. I had a fiance with a very funny last name. He was a talented and successful dentist. So, after some time his last name started to be associated with power and success. So, I would definitely take it and give it to my children.

Potty
05-02-2013, 15:08
I would't like my daugther sounded like Masha Svin'ina or Pupkina.

What if Pupkin was number 3 in Forbes richest people list?

yakspeare
05-02-2013, 15:09
when I have had girlfriends that have been quite serious I have wanted them to meet my kids. The first thing my ex wife does is of course introduce herself using the most official title of Mrs (my name) (mylast name)...not even using her actural first name. She is a Robyn and my future wife is a Ruzanna....i can just see how that will go down.

She makes a point of using my last name with my family, stressing she is one of us too-um no there is such a thing as divorce. She hates me but likes my family and I hate her overuse of my last name. She still calls herself Mrs on everything too.

mrzuzzo
05-02-2013, 15:11
Kinda agree with what was said above. One of my colleagues is named "Julietta Esenina". Absolutely beautiful name and she is a gorgeous girl at that. I wouldn't expect her to change her name.

Potty
05-02-2013, 15:15
when I have had girlfriends that have been quite serious I have wanted them to meet my kids. The first thing my ex wife does is of course introduce herself using the most official title of Mrs (my name) (mylast name)...not even using her actural first name.

Introduce herself to whom? To your girlfriend? Why the hell do they even have to meet?

NotMe
05-02-2013, 15:24
Kinda agree with what was said above. One of my colleagues is named "Julietta Esenina". Absolutely beautiful name and she is a gorgeous girl at that. I wouldn't expect her to change her name.

I also suppose that for example Svetlana Esenina would sound much better. :)

NotMe
05-02-2013, 15:26
What if Pupkin was number 3 in Forbes richest people list?

My respect to gospodin Pupkin and that's all. :)

Potty
05-02-2013, 15:26
My respect to gospodin Pupkin and that's all. :)

:D

mrzuzzo
05-02-2013, 15:31
I also suppose that for example Svetlana Esenina would sound much better. :)

Reserved for our daughter!

I love the name Svetlana.

Potty
05-02-2013, 15:32
Reserved for our daughter!

I love the name Svetlana.

Will you allow your daughter to take her mother's last name?

mrzuzzo
05-02-2013, 15:37
Will you allow your daughter to take her mother's last name?

Depends on what her mother's last name is, if it's something like Esenina sure.

yakspeare
05-02-2013, 16:00
Introduce herself to whom? To your girlfriend? Why the hell do they even have to meet?

Because I am visiting the kids. obviously I wouldn't introduce the kids unless it is someone I have been dating for a couple of years/planned to marry etc.

rusmeister
05-02-2013, 16:02
What I find interesting is that the OP asks why a custom exists and everybody answers in the present tense and only about their own experience. What strikes me is a lack of curiosity about why the custom should have been established in the first place and why everyone, men and women alike, historically agreed that one sex should change its name upon marrying.

The reasons are obvious to me now, and I have come to realize that the sad and tired charge of "men seeking to control women" is simply a monomaniacal view that can only think of everything in terms of an imaginary conflict between men and women.

The most obvious reason is that a family must be a single entity, and have a single name. The family, consisting of husband, wife, children and extended relatives has traditionally been forged as a thing to last for life - how could one accept a temporary brother-in-law or daughter-in-law, a relationship to be broken a few years down the road with easy divorce?

As a nation must have one flag, not two, so a family must have one flag. The exceptions always glare - we watch (IF we watch) "The Simpsons", not "The Simpson-Grangers". If we really tried to extend the illogical principle of retaining all family names, we would, in mere generation or two, run into serious problems of unwieldy names, as strange as a country flying eight flags.

Does it matter if it is the man's family name or the woman's? Perhaps not, but since the beginning of the use of family names, most of humanity (with a few notable exceptions) has agreed that it should be the man's name. If most of humanity agrees on a common tradition, it seems a rather incautious thing to disdain the tradition until one learns the reasons that he tradition has been established in the first place - otherwise (as with easy divorce 100 years ago and "same-sex marriage" today) you are tearing down a wall without knowing what it was built to keep out.

Potty
05-02-2013, 16:08
Because I am visiting the kids.

And? Is your ex still breastfeeding them? What about neutral territory without the mom? I think to "introduce" your 2 women to each other is a huge mistake, especially when your ex acts like that and you say that she hates you.

yakspeare
05-02-2013, 16:15
And? Is your ex still breastfeeding them? What about neutral territory without the mom? I think to "introduce" your 2 women to each other is a huge mistake, especially when your ex acts like that and you say that she hates you.

it is a packaged deal. she insists on being there.unless i want to fight things in the courts, she has custody(we were divorced under the old rules. now it is automatically 50/50) and she can do what she likes. She wants to be there.

rusmeister
05-02-2013, 16:17
Reserved for our daughter!

I love the name Svetlana.
I know it's OT, but it IS a great name. The Greek version is "Photini", and is the name attributed to the woman at the well in the Gospels (one of my favorite Gospel passages) - the one who Jesus knew who she was sleeping with and how many husbands she had had - who Tradition avers was later martyred and the Church recognizes as a saint.
Samaritan woman at the well - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hey, if you choose a name, it's good to know its history. It's a cool name.

Potty
05-02-2013, 16:17
rusmeister, if your posts were shorter, they would be more effective.
This thought about last name came to my mind because there is a girl I know from university , who has had several marriages and she changes her last name every time in social net. I understand that every time she believes that it's her last one, but anyway...

Potty
05-02-2013, 16:22
.unless i want to fight things in the courts,


Why is it bad?

yakspeare
05-02-2013, 16:34
Why is it bad?

Such custody fights cost about $20000 and , statistically, only 18% of fathers are successful-and if you are unsuccessful you have an even more peeved off ex.

Potty
05-02-2013, 16:42
Such custody fights cost about $20000 and , statistically, only 18% of fathers are successful-and if you are unsuccessful you have an even more peeved off ex.

But you don't need custody. I think kids should live with the mom anyway. You need schedule of meetings without crazy ex where she introduces herself as Missis Yakspeare's wife. They don't do it in Australia? In Russia after certain age (3 y.o. or something) a father has a right to meet the kids without the mom's presence. For example take the kid to his place.

Potty
05-02-2013, 16:48
yakspeare, besides how old are your kids? Nobody asks their opinion? For example, you say to your son/daughter "Sweetheart, I want to take you to aqua-park/movie/theater/Avril Lavigne concert" and he/she says "No, daddy, I can see you only in our house, while mommy is gazing at your balding head". Like that?

yakspeare
05-02-2013, 16:57
yakspeare, besides how old are your kids? Nobody asks their opinion? For example, you say to your son/daughter "Sweetheart, I want to take you to aqua-park/movie/theater/Avril Lavigne concert" and he/she says "No, daddy, I can see you only in our house, while mommy is gazing at your balding head". Like that?

with respect Potty, my situation is not uncommon but it is not the norm. My ex lives her life through her kids and thus controls them also.She never wanted me back but she resents where she is in life and it is "all his fault". The last time I spoke to her was me asking if he could get skype so i could skype the kids once a week. she said no she doesn't have a computer. I said i would buy a computer. she said she didn't know how to use one. i said i would pay for her to do a training course and she said she didn't want a computer in the house. legally she can't say i can't see the kids. but when my daughter(almost 16 now) asked to see me in the holidays a few years back i was ready to drop everything to do so. but i was told i had to let her know 3 months in advance because the kids are busy with sport, sleep overs etc blah blah. she tries to make it as difficult as possible as she just hates it when they hug me and show unconditional love and is quite jealous of it. it is stupid, but it is her personality. i can only wait until the children are 18 and then they can choose to see me on their own.

Potty
05-02-2013, 17:14
Well. What can I say. I think you are too soft and I hope Ruzanna is very strong.

penka
05-02-2013, 17:20
Yes, yak, what a mess. Though I do sympathise with you, I must agree with potty - you are far too soft, man.
Also, by all etiquette standards using your ex's full name when introducing yourself is totally ridiculous.

penka
05-02-2013, 17:30
When I was getting married, my future ex wanted me to take his last name. Real pain with all the documents in mind, but, I followed to tradition.

And I kept the name after the divorce (men of the forum, do not hate me!!! I got passports and docs to keep track of!!!), but I introduce myself by my first and my ex's last name, which is a rear one.

Six years on my poor exhubby figured, I am not coming back to him. He gave up and remarried.

A Russian girl. 16 years junior than me. My ex is fourteen years senior than me. The new wife got the same first name as me. And took my ex's last name.

Life is too funny sometimes.

Potty
05-02-2013, 17:42
Six years on my poor exhubby figured, I am not coming back to him. He gave up and remarried.

maybe he was just waiting for his GF's legal age ))

penka
05-02-2013, 17:53
maybe he was just waiting for his GF's legal age ))

Most probably:-)

It still got a bit awkward when he rented a flat next to me and tried to socialize with my bf...

Potty
05-02-2013, 17:55
Most probably:-)

It still got a bit awkward when he rented a flat next to me and tried to socialize with my bf...

oh God.

penka
05-02-2013, 17:58
oh God.

Must be Western politeness, potty.

Alan65
05-02-2013, 18:10
When I was getting married, my future ex wanted me to take his last name. Real pain with all the documents in mind, but, I followed to tradition.

And I kept the name after the divorce (men of the forum, do not hate me!!! I got passports and docs to keep track of!!!), but I introduce myself by my first and my ex's last name, which is a rear one.

Six years on my poor exhubby figured, I am not coming back to him. He gave up and remarried.

A Russian girl. 16 years junior than me. My ex is fourteen years senior than me. The new wife got the same first name as me. And took my ex's last name.

Life is too funny sometimes.

Please please tell us that your ex husbands new wife does not look like a younger version of you.

yakspeare
05-02-2013, 18:15
sometimes i am too soft. my ex gf and i were going to build her a new house because she didn't live in the best neighbour , but my ex gf witnessed all the snide remarks etc and said no way in the end. but i have also been angry about my lack of access to the kids too, but my ex wife is too smart to never officially deny me access, she just makes it as difficult as possible. but i will say she is a terrific mum to the kids and my kids are well adjusted. my son has got his black belt in Tae Kown Do at 12 and my daughter is doing very well at ballet and may even have a future in it.

Potty
05-02-2013, 18:21
she is a terrific mum

she is not smart and she is not terrific. Messed up in their heads moms raise messed up in their heads kids. No matter which color of belts they have and how good they are at ballet. I have one thousands achievements in my life , but I know that my parents screwed a lot for me and there were no happiness in the family I lived in.

penka
05-02-2013, 18:29
Please please tell us that your ex husbands new wife does not look like a younger version of you.

I don't know - never met her.

Alan65
05-02-2013, 18:32
I don't know - never met her.

Well moving to the same neighbourhood as you.
A new wife with the same name.
Trying to become friends with your boyfriend.

I would bet my mortage on this being a full house and her looking like a younger version of you .....probably something how you looked when you first met him.

penka
05-02-2013, 18:35
sometimes i am too soft. my ex gf and i were going to build her a new house because she didn't live in the best neighbour , but my ex gf witnessed all the snide remarks etc and said no way in the end. but i have also been angry about my lack of access to the kids too, but my ex wife is too smart to never officially deny me access, she just makes it as difficult as possible. but i will say she is a terrific mum to the kids and my kids are well adjusted. my son has got his black belt in Tae Kown Do at 12 and my daughter is doing very well at ballet and may even have a future in it.

Yak, get a grip. The woman is a manipulator. The reason for your divorce is between her and you, but she feels compelled to use your kids a weapon par excellence.
You must be lucky to find a steady gf at all - not many would volunteer to plunge into such mess...

By the way, is your ex seeing somebody or is she a heroic single mum?

penka
05-02-2013, 18:38
Well moving to the same neighbourhood as you.
A new wife with the same name.
Trying to become friends with your boyfriend.

I would bet my mortage on this being a full house and her looking like a younger version of you .....probably something how you looked when you first met him.

Even if she does, so?

And, I dare say, I did not change much in my appearence since then.

Alan65
05-02-2013, 18:55
Even if she does, so?

And, I dare say, I did not change much in my appearence since then.

So...its quite often a phsychotic disorder, one that does not actually accept that you have broken up, he is most probably in denial, she is only a substitute, think methadone to a herion addict, whilst it may satisfy his craving temporarily, he really wants the real thing.

You have been warned.

penka
05-02-2013, 19:16
So...its quite often a phsychotic disorder, one that does not actually accept that you have broken up, he is most probably in denial, she is only a substitute, think methadone to a herion addict, whilst it may satisfy his craving temporarily, he really wants the real thing.

You have been warned.

Thank you for the warning. I am not faint hearted, though.

Besides, my ex leads a very healthy lifestyle - no smoking, no drinking, no processed food. And no illegal drugs.

NotMe
05-02-2013, 19:21
Reserved for our daughter!

I love the name Svetlana.

Hope your fiancee will like it too! :p

If it works, a bottle of Taittinger Brut and a bar of dark Belgian or French chocolate from you. :)

yakspeare
05-02-2013, 19:26
Yak, get a grip. The woman is a manipulator. The reason for your divorce is between her and you, but she feels compelled to use your kids a weapon par excellence.
You must be lucky to find a steady gf at all - not many would volunteer to plunge into such mess...

By the way, is your ex seeing somebody or is she a heroic single mum?

Heroic single mum and professional victim. I have no illusions to her character but the kids eat well,she doesn't say anything bad about me to them, my family keeps an eye on things(they are always welcome) and the kids do well at school etc. You mightunderstand, under the circumstances, why i chose a new life abroad...

Potty
05-02-2013, 19:35
Heroic single mum and professional victim. I have no illusions to her character but the kids eat well,she doesn't say anything bad about me to them, my family keeps an eye on things(they are always welcome) and the kids do well at school etc. You mightunderstand, under the circumstances, why i chose a new life abroad...
Well, except they are growing without their father and she is ok with that and even encourages that. But if you say it's not a big deal...

penka
05-02-2013, 19:37
Heroic single mum and professional victim. I have no illusions to her character but the kids eat well,she doesn't say anything bad about me to them, my family keeps an eye on things(they are always welcome) and the kids do well at school etc. You mightunderstand, under the circumstances, why i chose a new life abroad...

I didn't think of you choosing the life abroad, yak.

Your ex goes through life masked as your missus, your children are hardly seeing their father from what i understand and she acts with your relatives as if you are still married. And you, my friend are a target in her life.

And she doesn't date anyone! No any alternative target to re-direct the excessive energy...

God I wish you luck! Really.

rusmeister
05-02-2013, 19:57
rusmeister, if your posts were shorter, they would be more effective.
This thought about last name came to my mind because there is a girl I know from university , who has had several marriages and she changes her last name every time in social net. I understand that every time she believes that it's her last one, but anyway...
If they were shorter than these, they could not contain serious thought.

You have to use words to communicate ideas, Potty. You can't ask someone to explain the history of the US, or even the reasons why women have always taken last names, in three sentences or less and expect it to be anything other than some vague unsupported generalization.

I think the problem with your friend is that she, like most of us, see divorce as normal. It is our modern view that is highly abnormal. We have all been stood on our heads and need to reverse the false position we have been put into.
And anyone who DOES that is going to seem upside-down (as I do to you) from the standpoint of what is held today to be conventional wisdom.

To put it in short, the way you want it, our childhood instincts and the fairy tales are right, and the modern pragmatism that everyone is indoctrinated into is wrong.
If you don't understand that, well - you asked me to be short.

TolkoRaz
05-02-2013, 20:05
Why shouldn't women change their name? :confused:

After all, they are frequently changing their minds! :10310:

yakspeare
05-02-2013, 20:10
Well, except they are growing without their father and she is ok with that and even encourages that. But if you say it's not a big deal...

it is a big deal to me, it is positivelly soul destroying but my options were limited. as i said, the rules have changed now and it would be a lot different had i got divorced even 2 years later. my bigges constraint was it takes a year to get out of the Navy, and she moved 4000km away and , back then, status quo applied which meant whoever has the kids under whatever arrangement-that arrangement is not easily changed. the judge chastised her at our one hearing but his hands were tied.

but kids can be remarkably resilient. certainly it is better for me that i am around them, but the impact on them is much less. My son didn't even remember me when he saw me again...and my daughter was also quite young. they are used to it now. life goes on wthout me. i just hope when they are a bit older i can visit them away from their mother or they even come to visit me.

robertmf
05-02-2013, 20:29
Why shouldn't women change their name? :confused:

After all, they are frequently changing their minds! :10310:

:iagree: I suspect the name change is so old boyfriends cannot find new wife so easily.

BabyFirefly
05-02-2013, 21:58
I haven't legally changed my name yet, but I hope I can have some sort of name change in Russia itself.... because no one there can pronounce my last name.

But seriously, I guess I'm traditional, and want to have his name and my maiden name (the way we do it here is you have two last names, your father's and then your mother's maiden name).

BabyFirefly
05-02-2013, 22:02
I haven't legally changed my name yet, but I hope I can have some sort of name change in Russia itself.... because no one there can pronounce my last name.

But seriously, I guess I'm traditional, and want to have his name and my maiden name (the way we do it here is you have two last names, your father's and then your mother's maiden name).

pompeygazza
05-02-2013, 22:18
why?

Because that's how it should be.

Marriage is fundamentally about children, and children need to feel they belong to a single entity, that is not two individuals but 'my mum and dad' as one. Mum and dad having the same name, and the children also taking that name, helps with the oneness.

penka
05-02-2013, 22:50
Potty, did you change your last name?

Jack17
05-02-2013, 23:12
You can't ask someone to explain the history of the US,

Did I miss that thread?

Potty
05-02-2013, 23:26
Potty, did you change your last name?

Nope. Why would I do it to myself? ))))

rusmeister
06-02-2013, 07:30
Because that's how it should be.

Marriage is fundamentally about children, and children need to feel they belong to a single entity, that is not two individuals but 'my mum and dad' as one. Mum and dad having the same name, and the children also taking that name, helps with the oneness.

Glad to see the sanity. :)

I think the prime reason for denying the tradition really is an insistence on "independence" from one's spouse (which men may just as foolishly desire), holding the escape hatch open, and yes, that DOES weaken the unity of the family.

penka
06-02-2013, 09:48
Nope. Why would I do it to myself? ))))

You've subjected yourself to the institute of marriage, so, why not?

penka
06-02-2013, 09:52
Glad to see the sanity. :)

I think the prime reason for denying the tradition really is an insistence on "independence" from one's spouse (which men may just as foolishly desire), holding the escape hatch open, and yes, that DOES weaken the unity of the family.

Tradition is a good thing all in all. But, some women choose to preserve their independent identity because of their career choices, especially if they work in the same industry as their husbands. Not so uncommon among the people of creative or/and humanitarian professions.

natlee
06-02-2013, 10:12
damn straight we are proud but we hate it when we divorce them and they don't change it back! Yeah that part just gets to me. I didn't change my name after the divorce because it is easier for me to have the same last name as my daughter, for obvious reasons. My ex's new wifey seems to have a problem with it though, so he ended up giving me permission :rofl: :jawdrop: to change our daughter's last name as well once I remarry!

rusmeister
06-02-2013, 10:14
Tradition is a good thing all in all. But, some women choose to preserve their independent identity because of their career choices, especially if they work in the same industry as their husbands. Not so uncommon among the people of creative or/and humanitarian professions.

No argument. You are quite right.

And it weakens the family, even though they do not intend to do so.

natlee
06-02-2013, 10:16
I would not marry a girl if she didn't change her last name.

The point is, after marriage, you are one family. And one family should have one family name. Simple as that. Not sure I'd change my name again, unless we had a child.. so, one more reason I won't be marrying mrzuzzo! :cry:

penka
06-02-2013, 10:17
No argument. You are quite right.

And it weakens the family, even though they do not intend to do so.

It surely does.

natlee
06-02-2013, 10:18
I had a fiance with a very funny last name. This is all too confusing... a fiance you didn't sleep with is a bit of a.. first :shame:

natlee
06-02-2013, 10:19
Reserved for our daughter! :eek: Does your gf know? :p

natlee
06-02-2013, 10:20
Because I am visiting the kids. Good to hear!

PeteD
06-02-2013, 10:20
so he ended up giving me permission :rofl: :jawdrop: to change our daughter's last name as well once I remarry!


Maybe your daughter should have something to say about this?

This should not be about appeasing your ex-husband's new wife....

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 10:24
Yeah that part just gets to me. I didn't change my name after the divorce because it is easier for me to have the same last name as my daughter, for obvious reasons. My ex's new wifey seems to have a problem with it though, so he ended up giving me permission :rofl: :jawdrop: to change our daughter's last name as well once I remarry!

my ex wife has all my blessing to remarry-she should remarry and I would trust at least she chose someone positive to the kids. I also am willing for my children to have their name changed to her maiden name as well. Her family would certainly like that as they had only daughters so their family name would die out this generation otherwise. Of course I would like my son to keep my name...he has the same first name as me also. But I am no real influence on his life and probably never will be, he grew up without me. I hope as an adult I can reach out to him, he wil always be my son and my daughter, my daughter. but c'est la vie. The message in this, to me, is not getting a divorce-that was the only sane thing we ever did. But to not get married at 20 to someone who you had met less than 6 months previously and desired to obtain status from your union in some weird competition with her sisters about who could marry someone from the armed forces(two of the sisters did and one married a cop. Her dad was ex army at vice president of the veterans league so an armed fores husband was the ideal.)

natlee
06-02-2013, 10:28
But you don't need custody. I think kids should live with the mom anyway. You need schedule of meetings without crazy ex where she introduces herself as Missis Yakspeare's wife. They don't do it in Australia? In Russia after certain age (3 y.o. or something) a father has a right to meet the kids without the mom's presence. For example take the kid to his place. Have you been divorced with children? I just love it when people who have no clue speak for the rest of us. My ex wants our daughter to spend some time with him (= his wife as he'd be at work 90% of the time) in another country, and I insist I meet her before even considering leaving my only child with a stranger (which she is, as far as I'm concerned). Luckily (?) for me, she's a nutter who can't bear the mention of my name so there's no way he'll introduce us just yet :)

natlee
06-02-2013, 10:38
Maybe your daughter should have something to say about this? At the age of 5 (then) or 7 (now), or..? Think I'm capable of making that decision for the both of us until she's older and can make her own :)

natlee
06-02-2013, 10:44
my ex wife has all my blessing to remarry-she should remarry and I would trust at least she chose someone positive to the kids. I also am willing for my children to have their name changed to her maiden name as well. My ex has been desperate for me to remarry (clearly a guilt issue, above all else) so his blessing was for our daughter to change her name to a new, er, dad's name! ;) So very noble of him :10220:

PeteD
06-02-2013, 11:14
At the age of 5 (then) or 7 (now), or..? Think I'm capable of making that decision for the both of us until she's older and can make her own :)

:) I am not challenging your authority to make that decision!

Your original comment referred to a decision to be made when you remarried, so, your daughter's ages, both at the time of your divorce / separation, and now (unless you are about to remarry, imminently!), aren't relevant.

My point was that it shouldn't be about appeasing the ex's new wife!

I am also pretty sure that there are cultural differences in play here, over attitudes towards changing names, both in spouses and also in children, as a result of (re-)marriage.....

I probably share similar views as Rus on this, but also recognise that this will be because of these cultural differences, and also, my own, personal experience....

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 11:20
At the age of 5 (then) or 7 (now), or..? Think I'm capable of making that decision for the both of us until she's older and can make her own :)

in australian law a child under 16 can't have their name changed by deed poll BUT a child is legally called whatever people choose to call him/her. Thus, if she has one name on his/her birth certificate but everyone calls/refers to them by something else, then the common name is legally their real name as well.

natlee
06-02-2013, 11:33
Your original comment referred to a decision to be made when you remarried, so, your daughter's ages, both at the time of your divorce / separation, and now (unless you are about to remarry, imminently!), aren't relevant. I was considering getting married when she was 4 or 5, which he knew about.


I am also pretty sure that there are cultural differences in play here, over attitudes towards changing names, both in spouses and also in children, as a result of (re-)marriage..... Any American dads care to comment? :)

NotMe
06-02-2013, 12:03
Because that's how it should be.

Marriage is fundamentally about children, and children need to feel they belong to a single entity, that is not two individuals but 'my mum and dad' as one. Mum and dad having the same name, and the children also taking that name, helps with the oneness.

I could give you a lot of examples in Russia when mum and dad had different last names and nevertheless children felt themselves belong to a single entity and brought up being able to value family and spiritual values.

Needless to say that I could also provide a millions of opposite examples.
Moreover, most parents inside Russian families has the same last name, but family institution goes to pieces nowadays. :(

The same name is unable to unite family into a cohesive whole in case mum and dad don’t consider themselves like part of each other and prove it every day on the routine basis by their behavior.

Children are very sensitive to any false note in relations between two most dear people, and it’s impossible to deceive them here.

Potty
06-02-2013, 12:20
You've subjected yourself to the institute of marriage, so, why not?

Somehow it is very convenient for me now. And I really love my last name. Though it is not special or beautiful. All my life people called me by my last name. It's like nickname or something.

Potty
06-02-2013, 12:24
This is all too confusing... a fiance you didn't sleep with is a bit of a.. first :shame:

Well, I didnt sleep with my another fiancé before marriage. Now he is my husband. Things happens.

natlee
06-02-2013, 12:31
Well, I didnt sleep with my another fiancé before marriage. Now he is my husband. Things happens. Wow. And I'm not buying my ex's new wife's story.. perhaps I should reconsider :eek:

Potty
06-02-2013, 12:31
Have you been divorced with children? I just love it when people who have no clue speak for the rest of us. My ex wants our daughter to spend some time with him (= his wife as he'd be at work 90% of the time) in another country, and I insist I meet her before even considering leaving my only child with a stranger (which she is, as far as I'm concerned). Luckily (?) for me, she's a nutter who can't bear the mention of my name so there's no way he'll introduce us just yet :)
IMHO, nobody wants to babysit someone's child, especially as you say she is a stranger, means your daughter is a stranger to her too.

Potty
06-02-2013, 12:33
Wow. And I'm not buying my ex's new wife's story.. perhaps I should reconsider :eek:

I see you chit-chat with her a lot)))) you are very well informed.

natlee
06-02-2013, 12:36
IMHO, nobody wants to babysit someone's child, especially as you say she is a stranger, means your daughter is a stranger to her too. That's what I thought as well, but, didn't stop them from playing happy family behind my back earlier (had to leave for a week or so). Then again, she was trying to get him to marry her then, and, wasn't the one taking care of my daughter... So, with any luck she won't want to!

natlee
06-02-2013, 12:37
I see you chit-chat with her a lot)))) you are very well informed. It was him who (stupidly) told me..

Potty
06-02-2013, 12:43
It was him who (stupidly) told me..

))) then you chit-chat with your ex a lot. Why did you divorce? ))

natlee
06-02-2013, 12:54
))) then you chit-chat with your ex a lot. Why did you divorce? )) He used to call me nearly every day for, hmm... a couple of years after the divorce. Weird, but I didn't quite know how to tell him to bug off nicely so it took me a while :) Having said that, he did (and does) try to avoid talking about the wife, but, I had to ask a couple of important (to me) questions, and he couldn't think of ways to answer without providing personal info fast enough :shame:

Potty
06-02-2013, 12:57
Have you been divorced with children? I just love it when people who have no clue speak for the rest of us.

I was just speaking about the family laws and yak's interests. He feels uncomfortable in his situation. That's it. What is "the rest of us"? Crazy ex-wives? )))

natlee
06-02-2013, 13:03
I was just speaking about the family laws and yak's interests. He feels uncomfortable in his situation. That's it. What is "the rest of us"? Crazy ex-wives? ))) Well, it's good to look at/think of both sides sometimes.. easy to take one on a forum ;) And thanks? I'll take it as a compliment coming from you :)

Potty
06-02-2013, 13:06
He used to call me nearly every day for, hmm... a couple of years after the divorce. Weird, but I didn't quite know how to tell him to bug off nicely so it took me a while :) :

Looks like penka's story. You really never felt like to come back? If your ex-husbands still had feelings for you. Maybe you should had given them the second chance. 2 years is a lot.

Potty
06-02-2013, 13:11
Well, it's good to look at/think of both sides sometimes.. easy to take one on a forum ;) And thanks? I'll take it as a compliment coming from you :)

Oh no, I would never let my child spend time with some тетка. I understand you here. But I also think that to have a tea under ex wife's roof together with kids, ex and new GF is very unhealthy.

natlee
06-02-2013, 14:32
Looks like penka's story. You really never felt like to come back? If your ex-husbands still had feelings for you. Maybe you should had given them the second chance. 2 years is a lot. I'd had enough of him/us, he was long married, and to be honest, think he was mostly missing the friendship part of us. I did too, in a way, but also realized it was, as you put it, unhealthy. He still calls me sometimes, but more like a couple of times a month which I find manageable :)

Potty
06-02-2013, 14:39
the friendship part of us.

what's that?

Russian Lad
06-02-2013, 14:43
Healthy-unhealthy, hehe. Technically it doesn't change a thing.

Potty
06-02-2013, 14:59
Healthy-unhealthy, hehe. Technically it doesn't change a thing.

It does. With such way of life sooner or later you'll become neurasthenic ) I tell all my girlfriends never to marry divorced guys with kids. Especially if a guy is a тряпка and all decisions are made for him by women - ex and new.

natlee
06-02-2013, 15:01
what's that? What's us? Him and me :) We were way better friends, I think, than husband and wife.

Potty
06-02-2013, 15:03
What's us? Him and me :)

No, friendship. But I got it. It's my crappy english. Didn't get the phrase at first.

natlee
06-02-2013, 15:03
I tell all my girlfriends never to marry divorced guys with kids. That's a bit harsh.. but, it does make life easier, I suppose.

natlee
06-02-2013, 15:04
No, friendship. But I got it. It's my crappy english. Didn't get the phrase at first. Added to my post above :)

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 15:08
It does. With such way of life sooner or later you'll become neurasthenic ) I tell all my girlfriends never to marry divorced guys with kids. Especially if a guy is a тряпка and all decisions are made for him by women - ex and new.

thank god i am not in your social circle then. and perhaps we shouldn't marry divorced women with kids?

Russian Lad
06-02-2013, 15:13
I tell all my girlfriends never to marry divorced guys with kids.

Well, if they are still single or divorced after a certain age, they will not have much of a choice.:) I am with you on that though, I will never marry a woman with a child, why should I bother for the results of some unknown man's semen ejaculation into the vagina of my wife till the rest of my life? If she is not a virgin, it is bad enough, but bearable.:)
Besides, what is decisions? It is kind of abstract. He either makes money for the family or he doesn't. If he does and the wife doesn't, she better minds the kitchen+the children and invents new ways how to please him in bed every other day. Or she will have to gain the daily bread as well, if she wants equal responsibilities around the house. Otherwise, who needs such a woman?

natlee
06-02-2013, 15:15
To be perfectly honest, I've found that it tends to be more of a familiar territory for me personally (so, divorced woman with a child) to date a man with a child/children. We speak the same language, so to speak, as opposed to my talking to myself around a childless overgrown baby :shame:

natlee
06-02-2013, 15:17
Well, if they are still single or divorced after a certain age, they will not have much of a choice.:) Actually, plenty of 40-60 y/o men without children these days. I was engaged to one :eek:

Potty
06-02-2013, 15:18
we shouldn't marry divorced women with kids?

I don't know. It is always your choice. I am not a man, I can't know it. But , admit, divorced men often have way too many problems. 1) You live in another country and dont meet your kids often. And you say it's "soul destroying". I wouldn't want to live with a man with his soul destroying, forever missing his kids, forever being offended by his ex. 2) I wouldn't want a father for my kids who is ready to move to another country after divorce. You should have fought for them to be near them. In short a man should solve all his problems before marriage, to start new life being 100% happy without bothering GF, as nothing of mentioned above is her fault.

scd167
06-02-2013, 15:20
thank god i am not in your social circle then. and perhaps we shouldn't marry divorced women with kids?

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

:trampoline:

Russian Lad
06-02-2013, 15:22
Actually, plenty of 40-60 y/o men without children these days. I was engaged to one

Well, from your pics I can see you are attractive, that's the reason you are still in demand, including by those guys who don't have children.:) But there are herds of women less attractive than you are at this age, and it only gets worse after some years. Face the reality, a man in his forties can easily marry a 23-25 y.o. girl and it will be viewed as acceptable, even by the girl, it works with much less success in the opposite direction.

Potty
06-02-2013, 15:23
thank god i am not in your social circle then. and perhaps we shouldn't marry divorced women with kids?

There is nothing wrong that you have kids. It is wrong that you can't sort out the mess in your life. The same as 90% other divorced men.

Russian Lad
06-02-2013, 15:25
1) You live in another country and dont meet your kids often. And you say it's "soul destroying". I wouldn't want to live with a man with his soul destroying, forever missing his kids, forever being offended by his ex. 2) I wouldn't want a father for my kids who is ready to move to another country after divorce. You should have fought for them to be near them. In short a man should solve all his problems before marriage, to start new life being 100% happy without bothering GF, as nothing of mentioned above is her fault.

In other words, Yak, you are not a backstabbing, deceitful son of a bi#ch enough for a mature married life.:))


Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

Does it come free to you? Are you sure? 99.99% of them are not even willing to pay for their food at restaurants. How do you manage? Seriously, I am still learning.

Potty
06-02-2013, 15:25
To be perfectly honest, I've found that it tends to be more of a familiar territory for me personally (so, divorced woman with a child) to date a man with a child/children. We speak the same language, so to speak, as opposed to my talking to myself around a childless overgrown baby :shame:

What about to find someone younger than you? My grandma after divorce married to a man 7 years younger than her. Having a 6(or 7) year old son. They had a daughter afterwards. If you want the second child you don't need and old fart for helping you with all that diapers and other baby stuff. He will be just too old for sleepless nights.
Yeah, sorry, old farts. Be happy that I am not in your social circle.

Potty
06-02-2013, 15:28
In other words, Yak, you are not a backstabbing, deceitful son of a bi#ch enough for a mature married life.:))

He still can fix everything. While it is not too late. His kids are very young. I am sure you can have them back.

NotMe
06-02-2013, 15:30
Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

:trampoline:


Because some cows refuse to provide milk for free. :book:

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 15:33
I don't know. It is always your choice. I am not a man, I can't know it. But , admit, divorced men often have way too many problems. 1) You live in another country and dont meet your kids often. And you say it's "soul destroying". I wouldn't want to live with a man with his soul destroying, forever missing his kids, forever being offended by his ex. 2) I wouldn't want a father for my kids who is ready to move to another country after divorce. You should have fought for them to be near them. In short a man should solve all his problems before marriage, to start new life being 100% happy without bothering GF, as nothing of mentioned above is her fault.

yes i encounter such b!tchy attitudes in Russia-seems rather unique to Russia.

Other things I encountered in Russia which I found unusual:

The idea of "sponsors"

the amount of girls dating married men is huge

women who have a primary boyfriend and other guys they go on dates with (usally not sleeping with them) but happy to have dinner with them and let them buy her gifts.

women who have their kids grow up with the grandparents while they wrk in another city or even another country.


Oh by the way Potty, my ex moved to a small town thousands of kilometres away where a) there is no work and b) her father is highly influential and made clear i wouldn't be finding a job there. If she had moved to any large city in Australia I would have moved to it. Do you expect if you're from a small Siberian town and you move back there from Moscow that a good ex husband would move there too? even if there is no work?

And moving overseas eased the pain and i am at peace within myself. i can't change the past but now I have a new life and soon a new wife.

Russian Lad
06-02-2013, 15:33
Potty, share with us your vision of the strategy how to get them back, without hurting their feelings (I am not even speaking about the mother). It's not a win-win situation, someone always loses after the divorce I think.

NotMe
06-02-2013, 15:37
yes i encounter such b!tchy attitudes in Russia-seems rather unique to Russia.

Other things I encountered in Russia which I found unusual:

The idea of "sponsors"

the amount of girls dating married men is huge

women who have a primary boyfriend and other guys they go on dates with (usally not sleeping with them) but happy to have dinner with them and let them buy her gifts.

women who have their kids grow up with the grandparents while they wrk in another city or even another country.

Agree.

Russian Lad
06-02-2013, 15:40
The idea of "sponsors"

Is the idea of sponsors uniquely Russian though? Even the word sponsor is of foreign origin... It is just a way of prostitution - a guy gets a regular girl to sleep with for a reduced fee, which is not counted on an hourly basis, and the girl has an advantage as well, she is permanently employed and doesn't have to work as hard as her sisters in a traditional brothel.:) I would say this arrangement is widely spread in quite many countries, just as the brothels are.


and other guys they go on dates with (usally not sleeping with them) but happy to have dinner with them and let them buy her gifts.

Usually it is like one-two dates unless that second guy is a retard. I was once in such a situation myself, almost got myself killed by the jealous guy.

Potty
06-02-2013, 15:41
And moving overseas eased the pain and i am at peace within myself.

Yeah. That's the whole point. Doesn't seem like.

Potty
06-02-2013, 15:45
Do you expect if you're from a small Siberian town and you move back there from Moscow that a good ex husband would move there too? even if there is no work?

Ok. The question. Where does your ex get money from for living if there is no work there and as I remember she doesnt work anyway?

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 15:48
Yeah. That's the whole point. Doesn't seem like.

Well I am. I live in a fabulous city , just landed a really good job, and will be married in a few months. My kids have shown they are fnine without me and are doing well and if they ever need anything from me, help with university fees, a car etc, they will have it. They can visit me when they are 18. Yes it is sad I missed their childhood but i accepted my irrelevance to their longs ago. Noot sure what my daughter will do with her life just yet but my son will certainly join the army. their lives are on track and I am proud of them. I don't expect to have any more kids any time soon, my future wife is 24 and has no desire for kids a the moment. Maybe we will have some, maybe we won't. But all is right in the universe at present, nothing in the past can be fixed, life goes on c'est la vie. I am truly happy.

Potty
06-02-2013, 15:51
yes i encounter such b!tchy attitudes in Russia-seems rather unique to Russia.

Just really can't stand men who complain.

scd167
06-02-2013, 15:53
Because some cows refuse to provide milk for free. :book:

Thank goodness there are lots of cows to choose from...


:1306:

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 15:54
Ok. The question. Where does your ex get money from for living if there is no work there and as I remember she doesnt work anyway?

she lives in the grand socialist coomonwealth of Australia.

She gets free rent from the government for a house(not a flat) and just over $400 a week from the government as a single mother with two kids. She also gets $600 a month child support from me( obligatory.)

Trsut me, she has more disposable income now than when she was married to me and I was working. Of course the money will all stop when the children are 18-but then she can go on unemployment assistance and almost earn the same. She hasn't worked in 16 years and I don't think she will start anytime soon.

scd167
06-02-2013, 15:57
Does it come free to you? Are you sure? 99.99% of them are not even willing to pay for their food at restaurants. How do you manage? Seriously, I am still learning.

I guess "free" is relative... buying a decent meal here and there is much better than the ball and chain of marrying... also, much easier to upgrade to newer models if you don't marry them...

:11629:

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 15:58
Just really can't stand men who complain.

I was merely sharing my experiences on an internet forum. I don't really like self-righteous arrogant women either who judge me when their own life is not ideal either...but hey it's a forum. Shows a lack of class.

Potty
06-02-2013, 15:59
I guess "free" is relative... buying a decent meal here and there is much better than the ball and chain of marrying... also, much easier to upgrade to newer models if you don't marry them...

:11629:

I'm sorry, how old are you?

scd167
06-02-2013, 16:00
I'm sorry, how old are you?

What does age have to do with wisdom?

Potty
06-02-2013, 16:02
I was merely sharing my experiences on an internet forum. I don't really like self-righteous arrogant women either who judge me when their own life is not ideal either...but hey it's a forum. Shows a lack of class.

Don't get mad. Believe or not, I just feel sorry for the whole situation. And don't know any single person who grew up without a father and didn't miss him. And I don't judge. I make suggestions.

Potty
06-02-2013, 16:03
What does age have to do with wisdom?

Who cares about wisdom. How your naked butt looks is more important. I am serious.

NotMe
06-02-2013, 16:07
Thank goodness there are lots of cows to choose from...


:1306:



Sure, sure.:D

They say donkeys are very unfastidious. :book:

Russian Lad
06-02-2013, 16:23
Who cares about wisdom. How your naked butt looks is more important. I am serious.

However, how deep his wallet is is even more important.

scd167
06-02-2013, 16:24
However, how deep his wallet is is even more important.

Now that is true wisdom!

Potty
06-02-2013, 16:24
Do you expect if you're from a small Siberian town and you move back there from Moscow that a good ex husband would move there too? even if there is no work?

You shouldn't have moved abroad. It is too far. Now all you have now comes from this mistake.

scd167
06-02-2013, 16:25
Who cares about wisdom. How your naked butt looks is more important. I am serious.

That is why they make light switches...

Potty
06-02-2013, 16:27
However, how deep his wallet is is even more important.

Well , if you are old and have old ugly butt, than yes.

scd167
06-02-2013, 16:30
Well , if you are old and have old ugly butt, than yes.

The good news is we are only as old as she feels... so stay with the young ones.

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 16:30
You shouldn't have moved abroad. It is too far. Now all you have now comes from this mistake.

Nonsense. what does it matteer f i lived 3000km away or 30000? I still only saw the kids once a year at most. she chose that and there is now work anywhere near she lives. she lives in a country town, nearest large city is 7 hours a way and my work(realtor) is for a state 10 hours by car away(no planes.) and that is the minimum distance, i lived 2000km away from that. if she lived in a capital city ic ould easily fly for the weekend to see the kids but she doesn'tand i can't force her to move from her hometown.

Potty
06-02-2013, 16:31
The good news is we are only as old as she feels... so stay with the young ones.

Yeah) it's my fault that I am not blind)))

Potty
06-02-2013, 16:34
i can't force her to move from her hometown.

why? The court allows to take kids from the father somewhere far in the desert? And nobody can't do anything?

scd167
06-02-2013, 16:47
Yeah) it's my fault that I am not blind)))

...luckily, true "love" is blind...

:punk:

Potty
06-02-2013, 16:48
...luckily, true "love" is blind...

:punk:

Blind love is short.

scd167
06-02-2013, 16:49
Blind love is short.

...but intense...

Russian Lad
06-02-2013, 16:49
However, how deep his wallet is is even more important.
Well , if you are old and have old ugly butt, than yes.

When you are young it is also very important. For one thing, besides the obvious advantages, a deep wallet usually makes a male more self-confident, and girls like this type of dick.

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 17:44
why? The court allows to take kids from the father somewhere far in the desert? And nobody can't do anything?

yes that is exactly how it works. The mother can do pretty much whatever she likes. under new divorce laws she can't but we were divorced uunder the old ones. to get a court to change that is very expensive and almost always fails.

natlee
06-02-2013, 19:35
Face the reality, a man in his forties can easily marry a 23-25 y.o. girl and it will be viewed as acceptable, even by the girl, it works with much less success in the opposite direction. That is true, but I was trying to make a slightly different point :) Men in their forties+ who haven't been married and/or don't have any children are probably worse candidates than those who have tried and failed. Unless, of course, we're speaking in money terms only, but then there probably aren't that many wealthy single men around willing to marry and have children with that special lady :)

natlee
06-02-2013, 19:36
There is nothing wrong that you have kids. It is wrong that you can't sort out the mess in your life. The same as 90% other divorced men. Same as 98% of all people ;)

I do understand the point you're trying to make, but let's look at the facts here :)

natlee
06-02-2013, 19:43
What about to find someone younger than you? My grandma after divorce married to a man 7 years younger than her. Having a 6(or 7) year old son. They had a daughter afterwards. If you want the second child you don't need and old fart for helping you with all that diapers and other baby stuff. He will be just too old for sleepless nights.
Yeah, sorry, old farts. Be happy that I am not in your social circle. :D Funnily enough my ex (fiance) pretty much told me the same thing. And you're both right, of course, the majority of men past a certain age aren't as willing or capable to raise a baby, or at least do it as well and/or happily as some younger men could. Strangely though, I tend to fall for older men somehow (with a few exceptions), but then again I'm not exactly looking. If ever I meet the right guy, which I kinda doubt, he could be a bit younger or older (preferably within reason), I have no issues with either.

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 19:53
what nonsense. Age usually brings maturity and it is younger men less likely to assist with a baby. furthermore, by mid age ,some of us have fed plenty of babies and changed plenty of nappies and understand what a woman goes through. All about experience and a younger man doesn't have it.

robertmf
06-02-2013, 19:56
what nonsense. Age usually brings maturity and it is younger men less likely to assist with a baby. furthermore, by mid age ,some of us have fed plenty of babies and changed plenty of nappies and understand what a woman goes through. All about experience and a younger man doesn't have it.

:Loco: Yes, youth is wasted on the young.


:10641:

natlee
06-02-2013, 20:08
what nonsense. Age usually brings maturity and it is younger men less likely to assist with a baby. furthermore, by mid age ,some of us have fed plenty of babies and changed plenty of nappies and understand what a woman goes through. All about experience and a younger man doesn't have it. Yak, your age and the age of the men I have dated and spoken to are two completely different things :) All three of them have said, at one time or another, that they simply don't have the energy - not to mention, are worried they wouldn't be able to provide for the child as they get older. I see my stepdad with my daughter, and he adores her and tries to spend as much time with her as he can but gets tired after an hour or two, and she's 7 and doesn't live with him! And sure there are exceptions to the rule, but that doesn't change the rule itself..

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 20:23
unless you are dating 70 year old men, then yours is the exception not the rule.

it is men who have little experience with kids who will not understand what a woman goes through and are less likely to help and assume you can manage it.

When my daughter was born(I was 21) i couldn't go near that nappy for 8 months or so. Finally i got used to it and did it but that was a long time when my wife was dong it all by herself. When my second child arrived i was a pro and did it all without thinking. After that , after i was divorced, i dated several single mums and toilet trained their kids and helped out a lot. If an older man complains of tirednes, knowing that his wife/girlfriend would be tired, and makes you do it all on your own-then frankly he is a pig of a man and utterly selfish.

Potty
06-02-2013, 20:28
toilet trained their kids and helped out a lot.

Yak, you are definitely an exception. Most men are not like that. Whether they have experience or not. And such skills easily to be forgotten. Even by moms. i mean a baby is very difficult anyway. and when you are older than 40 , ok willing to help, but after several months of sleepless nights you will look like a dead man.

Jack17
06-02-2013, 20:29
he adores her and tries to spend as much time with her as he can but gets tired after an hour or two, and she's 7 and doesn't live with him! And sure there are exceptions to the rule, but that doesn't change the rule itself..

Does he smoke, drink? What kind of shape is he in? Diet? Exercise? There are vast differences in health based on geography. It's one "rule" in Moskva, another "rule" in California. Does your step dad take testosterone? There is hormone therapy for men. Oh well, none of my business and I don't expect an answer . . . just saying . . .

AstarD
06-02-2013, 20:31
Yak, you are definitely an exception.
No, he's not.

Potty
06-02-2013, 20:32
No, he's not.

Do you live in Russia?

Potty
06-02-2013, 20:33
Does he smoke, drink? What kind of shape is he in? Diet? Exercise? There are vast differences in health based on geography. It's one "rule" in Moskva, another "rule" in California. Does your step dad take testosterone? There is hormone therapy for men. Oh well, none of my business and I don't expect an answer . . . just saying . . .

good point

MashaSashina
06-02-2013, 20:37
Thank you guys for sharing your experience here, now I know that my relationships with ex are just perfect.
One observation regarding divorced men and their kids. When I was going throw a divorce process ("divorce" as we were not actually married), I met a man who was always complaining about his ex wife who didn't let him to see their son. They all lived in Moscow. I was very sorry about his situation and imagined a picture of the brave poor man continuously trying to see his son and some evil bitch refusing all his efforts. But then he said that he hadn't seen his kid for already 7 years - since they had divorced!!! I almost lost my jaw, no, really, I cannot imagine how it is possible. Some woman just tells him: you won't see your son, - and he does nothing. Just waiting when she allows them to meet. But the longer I live the more I understand that this is pretty common behavior for men. One of my colleagues decided to get divorced recently and even moved to another apartment with his lover, but this is his ex who decide when, how often and where he's going to see their two kids. And he follows her permissions, because he thinks otherwise she won't let them meet at all...
As I do not understand how it works (someone just forbid you to something you really want and have the legal right to do and you just agree and go away), I think this is just a men's way to avoid further responsibility.

natlee
06-02-2013, 20:46
Does he smoke, drink? What kind of shape is he in? Diet? Exercise? There are vast differences in health based on geography. It's one "rule" in Moskva, another "rule" in California. Does your step dad take testosterone? There is hormone therapy for men. Oh well, none of my business and I don't expect an answer . . . just saying . . . He is a healthy non-smoking 60 y/o businessman who works nonstop, and rarely gets tired, but as far as taking care of babies/children... a couple of hours and he's running off to work ;)

natlee
06-02-2013, 20:48
unless you are dating 70 year old men, then yours is the exception not the rule. Late forties to early sixties (stepdad included :)) Three out of four have raised a few children, one (ex-fiance) never had any.

natlee
06-02-2013, 20:58
At one point I was dying to have a baby with the ex-fiance, paiting a perfect picture of a perfect family in both our heads, explaining to him how a child would change his whole perspective and how he'd see what he'd been missing. He did want to at first, but ended up saying he was just "too old" for the sleepless nights and running after a little one. Another guy, late forties, having had two, told me he really didn't feel up to it at his age. Etc. All I'm saying is it's best to have children earlier rather than later, as a general rule anyway. And no, not necessarily in your early twenties (for a man anyway), but preferably before you hit the half century mark.

Jack17
06-02-2013, 21:04
What 60 year old business man who's working nonstop spends 2 hours with a 7 year old?
And this isn't his daughter - it's his granddaughter.

Sounds like your daughter is very lucky and much loved. This man isn't tired; he just has a life. Anyway, I'm just commenting on something I know nothing about.

AstarD
06-02-2013, 21:05
Do you live in Russia?
I was not aware that we were talking about Russian men. Yaks is a western man and has been raised in a more egalitarian environment where women have not allowed their sons to become the kind of man who comes home and sits in the recliner drinking beer while the mother of his children works a second job.

Jack17
06-02-2013, 21:09
At one point I was dying to have a baby with the ex-fiance, paiting a perfect picture of a perfect family in both our heads, explaining to him how a child would change his whole perspective and how he'd see what he'd been missing. He did want to at first, but ended up saying he was just "too old" for the sleepless nights and running after a little one. Another guy, late forties, having had two, told me he really didn't feel up to it at his age. Etc. All I'm saying is it's best to have children earlier rather than later, as a general rule anyway. And no, not necessarily in your early twenties (for a man anyway), but preferably before you hit the half century mark.
Oh Natlee, come on; you're a smart woman. If a man wants you, he wants your body, your blood, your child - everything. He has to have it. It has nothing to do with age. Forget these losers and find a man with the right stuff. You need a man who's crazy in love with you.

natlee
06-02-2013, 21:37
What 60 year old business man who's working nonstop spends 2 hours with a 7 year old?
And this isn't his daughter - it's his granddaughter.

Sounds like your daughter is very lucky and much loved. This man isn't tired; he just has a life. Anyway, I'm just commenting on something I know nothing about. Yes she is loved (by him anyway :)) but my mother and I know all too well that while work doesn't make him tired, being around children does - as much as he loves them! He asked her for a(nother) baby just some 10 or so years ago, and she laughed telling me she sees him with my daughter and knows exactly how much help she'd have gotten at that stage in their lives.

natlee
06-02-2013, 21:39
Oh Natlee, come on; you're a smart woman. If a man wants you, he wants your body, your blood, your child - everything. He has to have it. It has nothing to do with age. Forget these losers and find a man with the right stuff. You need a man who's crazy in love with you. Oh trust me, my ex-fiance was (crazy in love with me). But, as soon as he gave it some serious thought, he told me he just wasn't up for it. If I was willing to do all the work, he'd have considered it, but was being honest blah blah blah. I really want to belive your story though ;)

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 21:44
Bryan says it best:

Bryan Adams - Have You Ever Really Loved A Woman? - YouTube

"when you can see your unborn children in her eyes..."

Jack17
06-02-2013, 21:48
I really want to belive your story though ;)

Believe it. ;)

natlee
06-02-2013, 21:59
Bryan says it best:

"when you can see your unborn children in her eyes..." Yet you sound totally relaxed about the possibility of not having any with your fiancee :p

Jack17
06-02-2013, 22:17
I've never tried it; but conceptually, I think this speed-dating thing is the way to go. It's because the kind of love and relationship most men and women seek is based first and foremost on chemistry. I think a couple picks up that "chemistry" almost immediately; so, why wait and talk and talk and talk (much less have sex) with someone with whom it's not going anywhere?

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 22:21
Yet you sound totally relaxed about the possibility of not having any with your fiancee :p

I would give her a child tomorrow if i could but she is young and has no current inclination. perhaps that would change. I have told her birth control is her responsibility because any surprise would be pleasant for me. but i had to make a choice in Russia where the percentage of women who want marriage etc is a lot lower than the stereotypes. same with wanting a child too. I realized I already have two kids so how can I demand more? I would like more but it isn't my call and if I held out and stuck to my guns then I wouldn't get this amazing woman. She is quite liberal in her thinking and not a fan of marriage and doesn't see the need but she is marrying me because she oves me and marriage is what I want. I had to decide if I was willing to give up having kids to be with her and I , eventually, decided I could. Who knows what the future will bring but I have to accept in choosing her that I may never have kids again. ifi felt she was anything less than my soulmate it would be a dealbreaker. But I just love her.

natlee
06-02-2013, 22:25
I've never tried it; but conceptually, I think this speed-dating thing is the way to go. It's because the kind of love and relationship most men and women seek is based first and foremost on chemistry. I think a couple picks up that "chemistry" almost immediately; so, why wait and talk and talk and talk (much less have sex) with someone with whom it's not going anywhere? Dunno, didn't have much chemistry with ex hubby yet had a good marriage we both messed up, had plenty of chemistry with ex fiance yet had a pretty crappy relationship..

Jack17
06-02-2013, 23:00
didn't have much chemistry with ex hubby

:wazzup:

OK, of course, you can be attracted to someone; but it doesn't lead to a long term relationship. True.

Now, we all do a lot of crazy things; but why does a woman marry a man with whom she has no chemistry (or hots)? Even so, you would prefer to be in a monogomous relationship with a man you physically craved, right?

Alan65
06-02-2013, 23:10
:wazzup:

OK, of course, you can be attracted to someone; but it doesn't lead to a long term relationship. True.

Now, we all do a lot of crazy things; but why does a woman marry a man with whom she has no chemistry (or hots)? Even so, you would prefer to be in a monogomous relationship with a man you physically craved, right?

What I can not understand is Potty asking "why do women change their names"....on the basis that Potty and Natlee are women, surely they can answer that for themselves if they have been married.

So....Potty/Natlee, have you ever been married, did you ever change you name and why did you do it?

natlee
06-02-2013, 23:14
Now, we all do a lot of crazy things; but why does a woman marry a man with whom she has no chemistry (or hots)? Even so, you would prefer to be in a monogomous relationship with a man you physically craved, right? He was wonderful to me, and I'd just had a crazy chemistry filled excuse for a relationship.. so, I thought I could do without the chemistry as long as I had.. reliability. And sure, now I see how important physically craving your man can be ;) Sadly, the nicer men I come across I don't crave :cry:

Potty
06-02-2013, 23:16
[QUOTE=Alan65;1121891

So....Potty/Natlee, have you ever been married, did you ever change you name and why did you do it?[/QUOTE]

I already replied. I guess that post got lost in this long thread. I didn't change my last name because it's convenient for me and I like it. Natlee replied as well.

natlee
06-02-2013, 23:16
What I can not understand is Potty asking "why do women change their names"....on the basis that Potty and Natlee are women, surely they can answer that for themselves if they have been married.

So....Potty/Natlee, have you ever been married, did you ever change you name and why did you do it? :D I was married, once, and changed my name mostly because I never liked my maiden name :shame: and liked the sound of my first name next to his last name :p

Jack17
06-02-2013, 23:23
Sadly, the nicer men I come across I don't crave :cry:

Yes, that's an interesting feature of female psychology that, at long last, I've decided to address in my own life by becoming a hit man for the mafia. I think that should heighten my desirability among women looking for that "bad boy" type.

Alan65
06-02-2013, 23:35
Yes, that's an interesting feature of female psychology that, at long last, I've decided to address in my own life by becoming a hit man for the mafia. I think that should heighten my desirability among women looking for that "bad boy" type.

But the same arguement goes the other way, would I want a women who wants to be at home and be a housewife, no.

Would I want a women who is a total party queen, no!

Its all about balance and finding the right person, if you want to come home from work to the same meal every Tuesday, find a housewife, if you want a lunatic relationship, find a girl that loves drugs and clubs.

yakspeare
06-02-2013, 23:36
He was wonderful to me, and I'd just had a crazy chemistry filled excuse for a relationship.. so, I thought I could do without the chemistry as long as I had.. reliability. And sure, now I see how important physically craving your man can be ;) Sadly, the nicer men I come across I don't crave :cry:

this is what i found in Russia- a far mre practical woman which I am not sure is a good thing. Of the women I dated I encountered mostly two kinds in Russia. One was a hot,passionate , incredibly jealous woman who could send you crazy with mind games but in the bedroom was amazing. Some of them wanted marriage, others did not but none were wife material. Just not stable enough.

the other type I encountered had "warm feelings" for me and saw me as reliable and kind etc. One I came close to marrying, her kids wanted it and she thought "well ok". But she didn't love me. My friends said I was an idiot for not just marrying her, saying the love would come later. I don't know. But it surprised me that woman would consider marrying a man they didn't love. And my best characteristic, as far as she was concerned, was that i had stuck around dating her for a year and she thought i was.....reliable.

With my fiance, we actually broke up several times in the beginning. After a few weeks she said there was no spark, no real chemistry. Then we became friends but um special friends for a while...and i broke up with her a couple of times after that because i was frustrated that i wasn't seeing her enough, wasn't important enough and that it didn't really feel like a relationship to me. our status jumped from relationship to friendship back again several times. She just didn't have the same passion for me as i did for her...but somehow,over time, her feelings developed and this "self confessed ice princess" started to grow sentimental. Now we have all the passion in the world and she has agreed to marry me, wants to spend the rest of her life with me and truly needs me. I would love to know how i pulled this fluke off, but though she thinks i carefully seduced her, i haven't got a clue. but this woman has done a 180 degree turn in her feelings to me and shocked her own family in that she is in love and wants to marry someone(when they had given up hope n that).

Lost in moscow
06-02-2013, 23:57
Wow...

Jack17
07-02-2013, 00:33
if you want a lunatic relationship, find a girl that loves drugs and clubs.

Yeah, I kinda' think at this point in my life I would really like a freak. Would kinky sex fit into your scenario of a "lunatic relationship?"

MickeyTong
07-02-2013, 00:37
Strangely though, I tend to fall for older men...

Hi :wavey::wavey:

MickeyTong
07-02-2013, 00:42
Sadly, the nicer men I come across I don't crave :cry:

As Sylvia Plath wrote:

"Every woman adores a Fascist,
The boot in the face, the brute
Brute heart of a brute like you."

(BTW, Sylvia killed herself....she was married to another poet.)

MickeyTong
07-02-2013, 01:03
Hi :wavey::wavey:

Older men are very patient......

http://i45.tinypic.com/2uen38k.jpg

Lost in moscow
07-02-2013, 02:26
With my fiance, we actually broke up several times in the beginning. After a few weeks she said there was no spark, no real chemistry. Then we became friends but um special friends for a while...and i broke up with her a couple of times after that because i was frustrated that i wasn't seeing her enough, wasn't important enough and that it didn't really feel like a relationship to me. our status jumped from relationship to friendship back again several times. She just didn't have the same passion for me as i did for her...but somehow,over time, her feelings developed and this "self confessed ice princess" started to grow sentimental. Now we have all the passion in the world and she has agreed to marry me, wants to spend the rest of her life with me and truly needs me. I would love to know how i pulled this fluke off, but though she thinks i carefully seduced her, i haven't got a clue. but this woman has done a 180 degree turn in her feelings to me and shocked her own family in that she is in love and wants to marry someone(when they had given up hope n that).

And here I was sitting at home thinking is it really worth it all, thanks, really, gave me enough reason to continue rather than say **** it.

robertmf
07-02-2013, 02:34
And here I was sitting at home thinking is it really worth it all, thanks, really, gave me enough reason to continue rather than say **** it.

You should really think some more ...

Be strong like your emperor :mml:

natlee
07-02-2013, 10:12
Yes, that's an interesting feature of female psychology that, at long last, I've decided to address in my own life by becoming a hit man for the mafia. I think that should heighten my desirability among women looking for that "bad boy" type. Don't like the bad boy type one bit actually! It just so happens that whenever I meet a man whose clothes I want to take off immediately, I get to know him better and there's little to like or respect, let alone love. Most times, he wants me, loves me even but he's just not for me, other than... the chemistry. So, sometimes I stick around for the bedroom bit, but outside of it we rarely have a good time. Often enough, I start losing respect for myself with that type.. Essentially, I'm wasting my good years. Now the couple times that I've met someone worth sticking by, there just wasn't chemistry on my part.. I could talk myself into it cause "he's such a good guy" and all, but I just crave a man whom I'd want AND love :(

sashadidi
07-02-2013, 10:33
Thank you guys for sharing your experience here, now I know that my relationships with ex are just perfect.
One observation regarding divorced men and their kids. When I was going throw a divorce process ("divorce" as we were not actually married), I met a man who was always complaining about his ex wife who didn't let him to see their son. They all lived in Moscow. I was very sorry about his situation and imagined a picture of the brave poor man continuously trying to see his son and some evil bitch refusing all his efforts. But then he said that he hadn't seen his kid for already 7 years - since they had divorced!!! I almost lost my jaw, no, really, I cannot imagine how it is possible. Some woman just tells him: you won't see your son, - and he does nothing. Just waiting when she allows them to meet. But the longer I live the more I understand that this is pretty common behavior for men. One of my colleagues decided to get divorced recently and even moved to another apartment with his lover, but this is his ex who decide when, how often and where he's going to see their two kids. And he follows her permissions, because he thinks otherwise she won't let them meet at all...
As I do not understand how it works (someone just forbid you to something you really want and have the legal right to do and you just agree and go away), I think this is just a men's way to avoid further responsibility.

You have never lived in a country where the law and the whole justice system has moved completely to favour the female (mother) above the father no matter how crazy or a bad mother she is proven to be even by agencies of the justice system. I have not been divorced but I have seen/known a few grown men try to go to the house to see their children (as is surely their right?) only to have the ex wife call the police and get them arrested just because they are there trying to what you say they are too cowardly to do. They end up with a criminal record, can lose their jobs etc and so cannot afford child support which is used against them by their ex wifes and so back down. This might give you a idea of why western men appear so emasculated to you. the odds are amazingly stacked against them which is necessary in some cases but in no way to the degree that is is happening to men.
In New Zealand it was ironic that we had a feminist Minister of Justice who insisted (quite rightly) that the female should get a reasonable share say 60 to 70% of the combined assets of a marriage /relationship where there were children involved and or relationship that lasted over three years. This interestingly has led to a explosion of relationships that seem to" break" up after three years and the women get a lot of money and then "move on".
The ironic part of this law that she had NOT foreseen was that nasty men are now doing the same thing to rich single/divorced women and getting assets, she tried to change the law back so only women could do this!!!
so the odds are actually in New Zealand at least stacked against the male.
Just saying ......

yakspeare
07-02-2013, 10:39
Amen brother.

Potty
07-02-2013, 12:04
You have never lived in a country where the law and the whole justice system has moved completely to favour the female (..

exactly yesterday we were thinking and diiscussing of moving to Australia )) But I worry about the climate. Is it really hot there?

mrzuzzo
07-02-2013, 12:28
exactly yesterday we were thinking and diiscussing of moving to Australia ))

Not sure why anybody would want that... Australia is a far secluded place from the civilized world and the entire country is populated by ancestors of criminals and prostitutes.

Potty
07-02-2013, 12:35
Not sure why anybody would want that... Australia is a far secluded place from the civilized world and the entire country is populated by ancestors of criminals and prostitutes.

I've never been there. But yak is telling a lot about it, and I tend to like it. What about you? Have you been there?

mrzuzzo
07-02-2013, 12:59
I've never been there. But yak is telling a lot about it, and I tend to like it. What about you? Have you been there?

Yeah, it's so great that Yak lives in Turkey, out of all places, instead. I have not been there.

yakspeare
07-02-2013, 13:04
I've never been there. But yak is telling a lot about it, and I tend to like it. What about you? Have you been there?

always a myth that Australia is a hot country. It often gets hotter in Russia in summer, especially southern Russia.

85% of the population live in the large cities on the coast which have the sea breeze. We have a beach lifestyle. i used to walk the beach every morning. people work and surf after work and we have barbeques on the beach at the weekends. life is very relaxed and the standard of living is very high. But there is not much cultural activities to do and it is quite quiet, so boring for some. beautiful nature though.

good place for young families and retirees but not so good for people mid 20s-mid 30s as it is so quiet and not a huge amount to do.

Typical temperatures:

Melbourne: +10 , +15 in winter. Summer 30-32
Sydney +15, +18 in winter. Summer 30-35
Brisbane +18, +20 in winter. Summer +28, +32 ( nice climate-whether most of my family live)
Cairns(where I lived). Tropical Australia. winter +26 (ocean temperature 24) Note winter goes for 9 months and there is no rain for these 9 months.not a cloud in the sky. Summer +30, +32 (but humid) (water temperature is too hot at +30 so we swim in the rainforests in summer.)

exceptions are Adelaide and Perth, smaller cities where it can reach 40 in summer, comparable to Krasnodar. Cold and wet in winter +8, +10

Hobart in Tasmania can be -5 in winter(rarely colder) and 28 in summer.

Russian Lad
07-02-2013, 13:47
Lol, Potty, what crime have you committed to consider Australia, of all places?:))))) Is it a form of self-punishment?:))) Besides, what would you do there?:))) Roast barbecues on the beach till the rest of your life?:)))

rubyrussia
07-02-2013, 14:00
... Roast barbecues on the beach till the rest of your life? ...

Actually Russian Lad, there is the American dream and if there was "The Russian dream", to me that sounds exactly like what it would be. :D

Russian Lad
07-02-2013, 14:11
Actually Russian Lad, there is the American dream and if there was "The Russian dream", to me that sounds exactly like what it would be.

Ah, ok. :)

MashaSashina
07-02-2013, 14:12
Just saying ......
of course, all my conclusions are based on what I've seen in Russian families. I personally know only one divorced foreigner and according to this single example I have to admit that western women train their men very well. ))
I wouldn't like to go too deep into my personal situation here, mostly because it was long ago, but I went through 4 worst months in my life (and after that about a year not much better) after my ex (pretty successful man with good links, you may know what it means here) realized that I was seriously going to break out. I really had to fight for my right to be with my daughter, clearly indicating my intentions and being really insistent. However now I can't say that a criminal record or risk to lose a job could scare me off. ))

nobunny
07-02-2013, 14:18
Does a man feel proud when his wife takes his last name?

Yes.

NotMe
07-02-2013, 14:43
Yes.

I suppose only if she wears his last name with honour. ;)

Potty
07-02-2013, 15:01
Yeah, it's so great that Yak lives in Turkey, out of all places, instead. I have not been there.

He had his reasons to move. Sometimes people just need to move. Moscow is not a bad place as well. Some people move in there, some move out of there. It's just life. Everything depends on at what stage of your life you are.

Potty
07-02-2013, 15:10
Lol, Potty, what crime have you committed to consider Australia, of all places?:))))) Is it a form of self-punishment?:))) Besides, what would you do there?:))) Roast barbecues on the beach till the rest of your life?:)))

No panic, I don't have the tickets yet.

Jack17
07-02-2013, 18:52
Australia is a far secluded place from the civilized world and the entire country is populated by ancestors of criminals and prostitutes.

Canada is a far secluded place from the civilized world and the entire country is populated by ancestors of cowards.

Jack17
07-02-2013, 19:08
Most times, he wants me, loves me even but he's just not for me, other than... the chemistry.

Oh, it's so much easier to be a man. This proves the answer to that eternal question, "What do women want?" The answer is, of course, EVERYTHING!

I mean, isn't great sex enough? You have to respect the person too? What do you want to do, make love then discuss Levin's role in Anna Karenina with your partner?

OK, then is this the profile of your perfect man: a) Stud, b) Intellectual, c) Inexhaustable capacity to play with and entertain young children, d) Older, but not ancient (e.g., not Mickey Thong), e) Not a bad boy, but not a good boy either.

Does this 'bout sum up your ideal man? Well, then I've found him for you - Russian Lad. :11629:

Potty
07-02-2013, 19:19
Guys, you are so complicated.

robertmf
07-02-2013, 19:21
Guys, you are so complicated.

:10301:Not true !:10301:

OlgaT
07-02-2013, 19:28
Women in Quebec can't change their last name when they get married. ;)

robertmf
07-02-2013, 19:34
Women in Quebec can't change their last name when they get married. ;)

Really ? Is that just the French catholics there ?

Potty
07-02-2013, 19:44
I had a guy in my life with whom I had the craziest chemistry ever. I was sooo in love with him. He was the only guy in my life who I was chasing after, took all the initiative, called him, wrote endless sms, in short lost all respect to myself ))) I still can't believe it was me)) But turned out we had 1mln reasons for not to be together. Well, mainly because turned out he was married. If not this, I swear I would call him every day begging for sex and I would pay for the hotel and condoms))) So, we talked. A lot. During 4 years. And year by year I fell for him more and more. I was obsessed. But one day he was sitting next to me saying "I have maxillary sinusitis (гайморит). Yesterday the docs made a puncture in my nose". He was really feeling bad, suffering, etc. But I felt nothing. I mean no sorry, no pity, just a desire to finish that disgusting conversation))) I was very surprised with myself. How so? I loved him so much! I couldn't live without him. But turned out it was not love. Love is care, devotion, etc. What I had was lust and entertaining myself. So, I got disappointed in chemistry that day)) And am still now.

OlgaT
07-02-2013, 19:47
Really ? Is that just the French catholics there ?

It has nothing to do with catholics, on the contrary, it's about liberté, égalité, fraternité.

natlee
07-02-2013, 19:57
Well, then I've found him for you - Russian Lad. :11629: :cry:

AstarD
07-02-2013, 20:03
It has nothing to do with catholics, on the contrary, it's about liberté, égalité, fraternité.
Ah, yes, the French kind of equality of not being allowed to make a decision for yourself.

Jack17
07-02-2013, 20:08
I had a guy in my life with whom I had the craziest chemistry ever. I was sooo in love with him. He was the only guy in my life who I was chasing after, took all the initiative, called him, wrote endless sms, in short lost all respect to myself ))) I still can't believe it was me)) But turned out we had 1mln reasons for not to be together. Well, mainly because turned out he was married. If not this, I swear I would call him every day begging for sex and I would pay for the hotel and condoms))) So, we talked. A lot. During 4 years. And year by year I fell for him more and more. I was obsessed. But one day he was sitting next to me saying "I have maxillary sinusitis (гайморит). Yesterday the docs made a puncture in my nose". He was really feeling bad, suffering, etc. But I felt nothing. I mean no sorry, no pity, just a desire to finish that disgusting conversation))) I was very surprised with myself. How so? I loved him so much! I couldn't live without him. But turned out it was not love. Love is care, devotion, etc. What I had was lust and entertaining myself. So, I got disappointed in chemistry that day)) And am still now.
All I can conclude from your story Potty is - lust is a lot more exciting than love.

Russian Lad
07-02-2013, 20:18
edit

Russian Lad
07-02-2013, 20:19
Natlee doesn't fancy cooking thin borsch and mashed potatoes for the poor and jobless Russian Lad every day. She is after the rich lads.:D:D

yakspeare
07-02-2013, 20:24
I had a guy in my life with whom I had the craziest chemistry ever. I was sooo in love with him. He was the only guy in my life who I was chasing after, took all the initiative, called him, wrote endless sms, in short lost all respect to myself ))) I still can't believe it was me)) But turned out we had 1mln reasons for not to be together. Well, mainly because turned out he was married. If not this, I swear I would call him every day begging for sex and I would pay for the hotel and condoms))) So, we talked. A lot. During 4 years. And year by year I fell for him more and more. I was obsessed. But one day he was sitting next to me saying "I have maxillary sinusitis (гайморит). Yesterday the docs made a puncture in my nose". He was really feeling bad, suffering, etc. But I felt nothing. I mean no sorry, no pity, just a desire to finish that disgusting conversation))) I was very surprised with myself. How so? I loved him so much! I couldn't live without him. But turned out it was not love. Love is care, devotion, etc. What I had was lust and entertaining myself. So, I got disappointed in chemistry that day)) And am still now.

Ah yes the Russian woman with the married man. see my earlier post.

Potty
07-02-2013, 20:27
All I can conclude from your story Potty is - lust is a lot more exciting than love.

Nope. Nope nope. Do you know what is more exciting? When you see your crying hubby in delivery room holding your just born son and saying "this is our little son! Our little son!".

scd167
07-02-2013, 20:31
Nope. Nope nope. Do you know what is more exciting? When you see your crying hubby in delivery room holding your just born son and saying "this is our little son! Our little son!".

...then a year later he realizes the kid looks nothing like him but a lot like the married guy from next door...

:11629:

Potty
07-02-2013, 20:33
Ah yes the Russian woman with the married man. see my earlier post.

Or a married man with some woman )
I have nothing to be ashamed of. I was a good girl. I guess he was cheating on his wife but not with me.

Potty
07-02-2013, 20:36
...then a year later he realizes the kid looks nothing like him but a lot like the married guy from next door...

:11629:

Well, I am sorry if it happened to you

Jack17
07-02-2013, 20:36
This is just too rich! Potty, you're the greatest! :thumbsup:

OlgaT
07-02-2013, 20:54
Ah, yes, the French kind of equality of not being allowed to make a decision for yourself.
Why do women have to change their names, why not men? In Quebec both can, any time, if they apply.

scd167
07-02-2013, 21:01
Well, I am sorry if it happened to you

No, I was just finishing your story about your affair with the married guy (or non-affair, or whatever). I think you need to work with Jas and give her the ultimate story line for her first commercially successful novel...

:10475:

Potty
07-02-2013, 21:10
No, I was just finishing your story about your affair with the married guy (or non-affair, or whatever). I think you need to work with Jas and give her the ultimate story line for her first commercially successful novel...

:10475:

People see what they want to see. And tend to blame those who they don't like ) of course you know better than me what was going on then.

scd167
07-02-2013, 21:13
People see what they want to see. And tend to blame those who they don't like ) of course you know better than me what was going on then.

I was only going by what I was reading... obviously, something got lost in translation. I will leave you to your man hating...


:fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks:

Potty
07-02-2013, 21:18
No, I was just finishing your story about your affair with the married guy (or non-affair, or whatever). I think you need to work with Jas and give her the ultimate story line for her first commercially successful novel...

:10475:

Following your logic I had an affair with Ricky Martin as well)) cool.
When I was 14 I was madly in love with Ricky. I was making out with his pic from a magazine and singing along with him Living la Vida loca. Now my son looks like Ricky Martin and i am even thinking of filing for child support from him.

yakspeare
07-02-2013, 21:35
oh as a man it doesn't bother me but i find it amusing and a tad sad.

this topic came up often with a lot of my students(most were women in their mid 20s-mid 30s)

Comments like "all men cheat i just don't want to know about it"

and "I let him cheat but he can't discuss me with other women. that's the rule"

and the younger ones, 18-20, actually seemed to find it fashionable to date a married man. and of course the married man LOVED them not the wife. I remember one quite devastated when she found out that he had got his wife pregnant. Many seemed to date men who travelled from city to city with a girl in each but that was okay because he LOVES me , he is just using them for sex and of course the wife is just to have babies etc.


we would never have this conversation in Australia. People of course cheat but women rarely boast about it. If a woman said it , it would be met with frowns and silence or perhaps some friends telling her she is an idiot and a fool.

this is what I find so amusing about Rus' posts about Russian culture and the degradation of the west and lack of family values. Adultery seems to be far more accepted socially in Russia, to the point it is expected, than in the west.

Jas
07-02-2013, 21:42
When I was 14 I was madly in love with Ricky. I was making out with his pic from a magazine and singing along with him .

Potty, u sound exactly like this personage. Another Ricky Martin fan.....


MEHNDI LAGAON GI MAIN VIBHA SHARMA - YouTube

yakspeare
07-02-2013, 21:49
Jas: Person not personage. Forget the word personage.


Potty: Ivan Rikovich?

yakspeare
07-02-2013, 21:55
and seriously folks, what is with all the travelling. sure in oz we have the odd sales rep or delivery guy who goes from town to town but i swear the business trip is a russian invention.

Potty
07-02-2013, 21:56
and of course the married man LOVED them not the wife.

Ricky loves me, not this hairy dude he is living with!!!

Jack17
07-02-2013, 21:58
Following your logic I had an affair with Ricky Martin as well)) cool.

:jawdrop:

Really?

NotMe
07-02-2013, 21:59
Adultery seems to be far more accepted socially in Russia, to the point it is expected, than in the west.

Unfortunately I had to agree with you and that's sad. :(

Potty
07-02-2013, 22:03
Potty, u sound exactly like this personage. Another Ricky Martin fan.....
]

Screw him. I like this chick more!

scd167
07-02-2013, 22:08
Unfortunately I had to agree with you and that's sad. :(

Why, boys will be boys... as long as we finally find our way home a good Russian wife should be waiting with our breakfast...

natlee
07-02-2013, 22:11
Natlee doesn't fancy cooking thin borsch and mashed potatoes for the poor and jobless Russian Lad every day. She is after the rich lads.:D:D If I am I'm not succeedin' :) Never dated a guy with money, seems to be a curse :)

NotMe
07-02-2013, 22:34
Why, boys will be boys... as long as we finally find our way home a good Russian wife should be waiting with our breakfast...

LOL! :D

It’s a bad Russian wife would be waiting you with your breakfast. ;)

A good Russian wife would kick your ass and move to another guy with your children and money. :D

scd167
07-02-2013, 22:38
LOL! :D

It’s a bad Russian wife would be waiting you with your breakfast. ;)

A good Russian wife would kick your ass and move to another guy with your children and money. :D

Read the divorce laws... or better yet, figure out how much it costs to bribe the divorce judges here... I love this country!

rusmeister
07-02-2013, 22:39
this is what I find so amusing about Rus' posts about Russian culture and the degradation of the west and lack of family values. Adultery seems to be far more accepted socially in Russia, to the point it is expected, than in the west.

Yak, what I would find amusing if it actually amused is that you seem to think I imagine Russia as sinless and the West as sinful. I am under no such illusions;it is merely a mistaken interpretation on your part.

To say "adultery is expected" is a major insult to every marriage that I know. I personally know a few hundred Russians that would tell you where to get off.

Adultery can be found around the world. The tragedy of our time is that it is tolerated at all. But the spearpoint of propaganda does come into Russia via Western media, I think.

I can't actually be amused at these things, though. I would respond by asking for a general show of hands, from women, Russian or not who think their husbands (or even theoretical husbands) "cheating on them" (what an evil euphemism!) to be "acceptable".

Do we not want a spouse who will be faithful to us?

scd167
07-02-2013, 22:45
Yak, what I would find amusing if it actually amused is that you seem to think I imagine Russia as sinless and the West as sinful. I am under no such illusions;it is merely a mistaken interpretation on your part.

To say "adultery is expected" is a major insult to every marriage that I know. I personally know a few hundred Russians that would tell you where to get off.

Adultery can be found around the world. The tragedy of our time is that it is tolerated at all. But the spearpoint of propaganda does come into Russia via Western media, I think.

I can't actually be amused at these things, though. I would respond by asking for a general show of hands, from women, Russian or not who think their husbands (or even theoretical husbands) "cheating on them" (what an evil euphemism!) to be "acceptable".

Do we not want a spouse who will be faithful to us?

Yes, we want a spouse to be faithful to us but to forgive us for all of our unfaithfulness... we want a Russian wife.

yakspeare
07-02-2013, 22:51
I don't believe it is spearpointed by western media AT ALL. Western media would be "divorce his a$$"

It comes from a patriachal society of male dominance, more likely.

And as Jack said in another post, it isn't that it is desirable that your partner will cheat, it is just accepted that he will.

sashadidi
08-02-2013, 02:04
Amen brother.

Yak this is interesting!!!!!
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/02/would-you-pay-child-support-for-kids-that-werent-yours/
Would you pay child support for kids that weren’t yours?his, fresh from Canada

A father has been ordered to pay child support to his ex-wife despite results of DNA testing that found three of the four children he helped raise are not biologically his, a Quebec Superior Court ruled.

The man learned the shocking news after he demanded DNA testing when he and his wife of 16 years separated in April 2010.

“Since I learned that I am a broken man,” the father told QMI Agency.

His daughters are aged 12, 14, and 16, and his son is nine. DNA testing revealed the son is his only biological child.

To make matters worse, his ex-wife told him his three daughters were all fathered by different men, he said.

The man said he was aware his wife cheated on him several times, but was floored when he discovered the results.

“I was naive … I never thought I could not be the father of my children,” he said.

Potty
08-02-2013, 02:14
I had a boyfriend who had 2 children with his ex girlfriend - one his and one from some other guy she cheated on him with. A daughter. And he had always said "this is my child! I don't care what DNA - tests say. I will screw anyone who tries to take her away from me!". And of course he paid alimony for both children, working hard to provide.

Jack17
08-02-2013, 02:26
Yak this is interesting!!!!!
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/02/would-you-pay-child-support-for-kids-that-werent-yours/
Would you pay child support for kids that weren’t yours?his, fresh from Canada

A father has been ordered to pay child support to his ex-wife despite results of DNA testing that found three of the four children he helped raise are not biologically his, a Quebec Superior Court ruled.

The man learned the shocking news after he demanded DNA testing when he and his wife of 16 years separated in April 2010.

“Since I learned that I am a broken man,” the father told QMI Agency.

His daughters are aged 12, 14, and 16, and his son is nine. DNA testing revealed the son is his only biological child.

To make matters worse, his ex-wife told him his three daughters were all fathered by different men, he said.

The man said he was aware his wife cheated on him several times, but was floored when he discovered the results.

“I was naive … I never thought I could not be the father of my children,” he said.
I'm no advocat Sash, but what matters is what is on the children's birth certificates. If this guy had the children registered as his and never contested in a court their parentage, well, then he's the dad and he pays. I think that's the way any English speaking court would look at it. In California he would have to bring suit with his DNA evidence that these children are not his; then, if the court determined they indeed were not his, at that point he would then need to file another motion to eliminate his child support for those chidren determined legally to be not his. Of course, in Califonia, the legal fees for all this might equal his child support over x number of years. Don't you love the courts?

MickeyTong
08-02-2013, 02:28
I'm sure most women would be delighted to become:
Mrs Allcock
Mrs Hoare
Mrs Crapper
Mrs Lipschitz
Mrs Head
Mrs Dick
Mrs Cockburn
Mrs Shatwell
Mrs Balls
Mrs Blower
Mrs Cox
Mrs Hiscock
Mrs Hooker
....etc

Russian Lad
08-02-2013, 02:29
and one from some other guy she cheated on him with. A daughter. And he had always said "this is my child! I don't care what DNA - tests say. I will screw anyone who tries to take her away from me!". And of course he paid alimony for both children, working hard to provide.

What an idiot.:) Where do you women find such men? :)) I would simply kick her out the day I found out about it and would make sure my only child stays with me.

rusmeister
08-02-2013, 09:34
I don't believe it is spearpointed by western media AT ALL. Western media would be "divorce his a$$"

It comes from a patriachal society of male dominance, more likely.

And as Jack said in another post, it isn't that it is desirable that your partner will cheat, it is just accepted that he will.

Come on, how many movies and television shows would I have to cite to show that the overwhelming tendency is to portray any form of sexual relationship but the traditional faithful family as normal and acceptable? Yes, divorce is ALSO praised and lifted up as an escape hatch, "right thing to do", etc. And yes, if marriage becomes a thing of the past, if people cease believing in and committing to it (and STAYING committed), then adultery will ALSO go the way of the dodo, NOT because we have become MORE moral, but LESS moral. Adultery, at least, acknowledges that there is an intimate relationship which is actually being broken. If sexual intercourse comes to be seen as morally equivalent to brushing one's teeth, then there will be no marriage or adultery. But we will also have ceased to be human. We will be consumers with intellects but no heart - CS Lewis's "men without chests" (you can Google that).

One does not marry one's toothbrush. You throw it out when it gets old and buy a new one.

As to "patriarchal dominance", I think there are things that women have always dominated which are entirely (and foolishly) discounted in our time, starting with the home. The feminist view that sees things in terms of political power, the power of the public square, and never sees the power of the home, which formed everyone who ever walked into the public square, truly sees only one half of the real story. It can only imagine power in terms of who ruled the country, and never who ruled the home.

And if a thing is accepted, that only means that people tolerate it. We may accept tyranny or slavery. But we should determine NOT to.

I think Natlee's thread intimately connected here. The acceptance of adultery is the denial of this:
http://expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=483918

In a real sense, we can only determine that ideal of faithful marriage until death for ourselves. We cannot impose it on a nation. But the nation that refuses to accept adultery will be full of couples that really reach that ideal. The nation that caves in will have almost no such couples. The one will (as a rule, despite exceptions) be full of couples that in the end, are genuinely happy; the other, full of couples ever sour and unhappy, always searching, committing adultery when they may not divorce and divorcing when they may, with all of the forms of brokenness you all describe here in such detail seen as normal, and they HAVE become normal, in the sense of regularly occuring on a large scale. But they should not BE normal. That old couple should be. And they are not a product of mere "luck" (an atheist superstition) but of the right philosophy.