PDA

View Full Version : 1 in 6



Alan65
22-01-2013, 11:38
of Russian women in Moscow gets married to a Foreigner.

Is this beacause of:

Russian men are sh!t in bed :-)
Many Foreigners wish to live in Russia.
Many Russian women want to live somewhere else where they see life a better,note the locations include Afghanistan, France, Egypt and Syria.
Others......

**Shudders at the thought of living in France.**

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/14-of-weddings-in-moscow-include-foreigner/474317.html

Potty
22-01-2013, 11:49
of Russian women in Moscow gets married to a Foreigner.

nope. the article doesnt say anything about russian women. it says " included a foreigner". So, it can be French marrying another French. Or American marrying Italian. Some of brides are Russian, but not all of them. Foreigners come to work to Moscow. Sometimes they stay here for many years, so no wonder they have their weddings in the city they live. So don't get overexcited.

Alan65
22-01-2013, 11:54
nope. the article doesnt say anything about russian women. it says " included a foreigner". So, it can be French marrying another French. Or American marrying Italian. Some of brides are Russian, but not all of them. Foreigners come to work to Moscow. Sometimes they stay here for many years, so no wonder they have their weddings in the city they live. So don't get overexcited.

It says included included a foreigner (singular) and most of the grooms......

Potty
22-01-2013, 11:58
most of the grooms......

bot not all of them. most can mean 51%. so these numbers 1 to 6 must be adjusted.

annasophia
22-01-2013, 11:58
Let's go ahead and post the MT article:

"Of the 92,255 weddings registered in Moscow last year, about 13,000 included a foreigner, Interfax reported Monday, citing the head of the marriage registration office, known by the acronym ZAGS.

Irina Muravyeva told the news agency that 14.1 percent of Moscow weddings included a foreigner. Most of the grooms were from outside of the Commonwealth of Independent States. The countries represented include Turkey, Germany, Israel, the U.S., Britain, Italy, Afghanistan, France, Egypt and Syria.

Muravyeva said the number of grooms from outside the CIS has typically exceeded the number of brides. The ratio was 8-to-1 last year: 1,781 versus 228, she said."

------
To this article I kinda have to say --Huh?--

"Muravyeva said the number of grooms from outside the CIS has typically exceeded the number of brides....1,781 versus 228, she said"

What? What kind of numbers are those?

How can you have more grooms than brides? I mean if they're getting married, the percentage really has to be 50-50. One groom, one bride. Right?

Afghanistan? Syria? How are these people scooping up Russian brides?

Everything about this abbreviated story is wonk. Maybe google translate was having a bad day day because the cited numbers make no sense.

Potty
22-01-2013, 12:00
"1 in 6
of Russian women in Moscow gets married to a Foreigner."
is wrong.

Potty
22-01-2013, 12:07
I really dont see this situation around me. Just don't see it. Plus many people I know (Russians!) prefer to get married abroad- Spain, Italy, Greece. Cause it's more romantic and beautiful. So they are out of this statistic automatically. A lot of people prefer to get married in small towns where they are from. It's cheaper and closer to the relatives. So, Moscow is not an illustrative example. And again- Moscow is not all Russia. Russian women exist in other cities too. 99% of Russian women marry Russian men, trust me.

Russian Lad
22-01-2013, 15:36
How can you have more grooms than brides? I mean if they're getting married, the percentage really has to be 50-50. One groom, one bride. Right?

Wonder if some (most?) women have at least some logic in their brains. Obviously here they are talking about the number of FOREIGN grooms and FOREIGN brides, i.e. about the ratio between them.
And yes, I can only confirm that there is an ever increasing interest of Russian women to foreign men, due to the drastic, suicidal and even genocidal internal policies of our government. Not every individual agrees to merely sustain his/her life just to be able to go to work... So, understandingly, many Russian women look for a better life for themselves and their children. On the other hand, there is a terrible surplus of women in Russia, in some cities the ratio is 6 to 1 in favor of women.

Alan65
22-01-2013, 15:51
Let's go ahead and post the MT article:

"Of the 92,255 weddings registered in Moscow last year, about 13,000 included a foreigner, Interfax reported Monday, citing the head of the marriage registration office, known by the acronym ZAGS.

Irina Muravyeva told the news agency that 14.1 percent of Moscow weddings included a foreigner. Most of the grooms were from outside of the Commonwealth of Independent States. The countries represented include Turkey, Germany, Israel, the U.S., Britain, Italy, Afghanistan, France, Egypt and Syria.

Muravyeva said the number of grooms from outside the CIS has typically exceeded the number of brides. The ratio was 8-to-1 last year: 1,781 versus 228, she said."

------
To this article I kinda have to say --Huh?--

"Muravyeva said the number of grooms from outside the CIS has typically exceeded the number of brides....1,781 versus 228, she said"

What? What kind of numbers are those?

How can you have more grooms than brides? I mean if they're getting married, the percentage really has to be 50-50. One groom, one bride. Right?

Afghanistan? Syria? How are these people scooping up Russian brides?

Everything about this abbreviated story is wonk. Maybe google translate was having a bad day day because the cited numbers make no sense.

Perhaps they see a better life in Afghanistan and Syria, more opportunites etc

Russian Lad
22-01-2013, 16:21
Perhaps they see a better life in Afghanistan and Syria, more opportunites etc

Marriages to Afghanistan and Syria are rather rare. The main destinations are as follows: the US, Canada, Australia, Germany, France, Italy, Turkey, Spain, the GB. Basically, mostly to developed countries with high per capita income, possibly with the only exception of Turkey, which is an established sex tourism destination for the Russian women in general, just like Thailand is for the Russian men.

Jas
22-01-2013, 16:25
Personally, I think Russian women shud really ony marry Russian men- but ultimately, people will do what they want.

Russian Lad
22-01-2013, 16:34
Personally, I think Russian women shud really ony marry Russian men

Then the Russian government should allow Russian men to marry 4 and more women, like I said, in some Russian cities the ratio is 6 (women) to 1 (men), on the whole - 10 million more women than men. Personally, if I am ever rich enough, I would not mind having 3-4 wives in a little harem of mine. :zoom:

scd167
22-01-2013, 17:51
Personally, I think Russian women shud really ony marry Russian men- but ultimately, people will do what they want.

...including your "partner?" Amazing thing to voice your personal opinion about...

:11513:

Jas
22-01-2013, 18:47
...including your "partner?"
:11513:

Huh.

yakspeare
22-01-2013, 19:29
Huh.

It's a valid question. Is your partner Pakistani or British?

If not then your stance is hypocritical.

Jack17
22-01-2013, 19:32
Money is a magnet; everything gravitates towards it.

robertmf
22-01-2013, 19:34
Money is a magnet; everything gravitates towards it.

... :evilgrin: and then it falls into the black hole of the wife's shopping spree ...

:trampoline:

Potty
22-01-2013, 21:19
... :evilgrin: and then it falls into the black hole of the wife's shopping spree ...

:trampoline:

like you have an idea.

MashaSashina
22-01-2013, 21:25
I don't know guys, in Moscow foreigners can hardly impress anyone with their incomes.

Jack17
22-01-2013, 21:43
Yes Masha, we know, every Moskvich is a multi-millionaire (in dollars or euros). The ones who aren't, are billionaires (in dollars or euros). Right.

MashaSashina
22-01-2013, 21:46
Yes Masha, we know, every Moskvich is a multi-millionaire (in dollars or euros). The ones who aren't, are billionaires (in dollars or euros). Right.

Right, just like an average English teacher. ;-)

mrzuzzo
22-01-2013, 21:51
Doesn't sound legit. You must remember that foreigners include Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and all the other *stan republics.

Jack17
22-01-2013, 22:07
Right, just like an average English teacher. ;-)
Marry or go out with whomever you want Masha. But if I taught English with some large school in Moskva, I'd make maybe $2K/mo. The average wage in Moskva is less than that - and that's just the average:

http://indrus.in/articles/2012/10/05/moscow_average_wage_reaches_1500_18149.html

inorcist
22-01-2013, 22:14
I just read the text over and over again ...

All I can see is that the majority of the marriages with a foreigner seem to be Russian guys marrying a girl with a Ukrainian, Belorussian, Uzbek, Kazakh or any other CIS passport.

And only some 1781 Russian girls got married to a (potentially) Western expat - meaning that they guy was not from a CIS country. And 228 the other way round - Russian guy marrying a non-CIS girl.

Overall not quite impressive numbers.

Russian Lad
22-01-2013, 23:30
And only some 1781 Russian girls got married to a (potentially) Western expat - meaning that they guy was not from a CIS country. And 228 the other way round - Russian guy marrying a non-CIS girl.

Maybe you should go back to high school, grade 4, and learn again what a ratio is? Along with those who thanked you?:) Mrzuzzo, hmm, you are supposed to be a technical guy versed in such matters?:) Not that I believe much in high-tech progress in Russia and in those around the money allotted for the raspil in this sphere anyway.:)
The quoted statement contradicts this:

Of the 92,255 weddings registered in Moscow last year, about 13,000 included a foreigner... Most of the grooms were from outside of the Commonwealth of Independent States.


Anyway, I think most of such weddings are officiated and celebrated abroad, where the grooms live, just because most of the ladies go to the countries of their grooms to live there.
According to some polls, as many as 87% of Russian women consider marrying a foreigner as an option:
http://megaobzor.com/87-rossiyanok-hotyat-vyyti-zamuzh-za-inostranca.html
Of course it has to be taken with a grain of salt, but I am sure the real numbers are very big.

Alan65
22-01-2013, 23:36
Marry or go out with whomever you want Masha. But if I taught English with some large school in Moskva, I'd make maybe $2K/mo. The average wage in Moskva is less than that - and that's just the average:

http://indrus.in/articles/2012/10/05/moscow_average_wage_reaches_1500_18149.html

This is what I never understand about Russia, people talk telephone numbers with properties, lifestyle etc but earn the square root of f()ck all, perhaps they have to be as bent as a nine bob note or living well outside their means on credit which could explain the high interest rates.

If it is a life on credit it is frightening, to draw the word Кредит to it natuaral conclusion

Russian = English = Latin = Latin for belief
Кредит = credit = credo = belief.

All i ever hear in Russia are the telephone numbers for cars, gyms, restaurants, holidays etc....where does the money come from?

Russian Lad
22-01-2013, 23:58
This is what I never understand about Russia, people talk telephone numbers with properties, lifestyle etc but earn the square root of f()ck all, perhaps they have to be as bent as a nine bob note or living well outside their means on credit which could explain the high interest rates.

Never mind, that's either Moscovites who don't know life exists outside MKAD or wannabe girls who arrive to Moscow from all over Russia and former USSR countries, the competition for successful males is fierce, so the merchandise is advertised and praised as top-notch and exclusive by all means available.

Jack17
23-01-2013, 00:04
Very good question Alan. I'd say after 75 years of a state run economy, Russians are well versed in creating their own underground economy of income and credit. First, how much of any income in Russia is reported and taxed? Answer, not much. Second, how much in personal loans between Russians (especially Russian women) is outstanding? Answer, a lot. It's the word-of-mouth deals between friends that keep most Russians going. If a Russian needs to rent an apartment, they don't go to Penny Lane, that's for expats with an expense account. They also don't send their kids to expensive British run kindergartens nor do they belong to western style gyms and they rarely eat out.
Everyone's biggest expense is housing and, as has been mentioned many times, most Russians were deeded their apartments under Yeltsin. But if a young couple does have to rent, you can bet they're not paying $5K/mo for a qvartira on Nikitski Boulevard.

Alan65
23-01-2013, 00:14
Never mind, that's either Moscovites who don't know life exists outside MKAD or wannabe girls who arrive to Moscow from all over Russia and former USSR countries, the competition for successful males is fierce, so the merchandise is advertised and praised as top-notch and exclusive by all means available.

I like your straight approach, it is without rose tinted glasses, i was in 22:13 a few weeks ago, if talking b0llocks was a nuclear warhead, what i heard in there would have blown up Nagasaki ten times, if it were an Olympic sport they would win Gold everytime, I can say the same for Moscow...."I have a brand new Merc that costs 20 times my salary".....

Alan65
23-01-2013, 00:27
Very good question Alan. I'd say after 75 years of a state run economy, Russians are well versed in creating their own underground economy of income and credit. First, how much of any income in Russia is reported and taxed? Answer, not much. Second, how much in personal loans between Russians (especially Russian women) is outstanding? Answer, a lot. It's the word-of-mouth deals between friends that keep most Russians going. If a Russian needs to rent an apartment, they don't go to Penny Lane, that's for expats with an expense account. They also don't send their kids to expensive British run kindergartens nor do they belong to western style gyms and they rarely eat out.
Everyone's biggest expense is housing and, as has been mentioned many times, most Russians were deeded their apartments under Yeltsin. But if a young couple does have to rent, you can bet they're not paying $5K/mo for a qvartira on Nikitski Boulevard.

I may be wrong here but waht I am reading from your post is that Russians are:

Borrowing from the blackmarket.
The accounting system is pretty much screwed/non existent.
Its a paper/word of mouth economy without an audit trail.
They work to survive rather than live.
They have borrowed beyond their means.
There is a major credit crash on the way for Russia.
Russians are in denial saying they are better than a basket case of Southern Europe simply due to the wave not hitting them yet?

mrzuzzo
23-01-2013, 00:54
I may be wrong here but waht I am reading from your post is that Russians are:

Borrowing from the blackmarket.
The accounting system is pretty much screwed/non existent.
Its a paper/word of mouth economy without an audit trail.
They work to survive rather than live.
They have borrowed beyond their means.
There is a major credit crash on the way for Russia.
Russians are in denial saying they are better than a basket case of Southern Europe simply due to the wave not hitting them yet?

This is way exaggerated, IMO.

Russian Lad
23-01-2013, 00:55
Its a paper/word of mouth economy without an audit trail.

To be fair, it is not like the Russians invented offshores though.:)


Russians are in denial saying they are better than a basket case of Southern Europe simply due to the wave not hitting them yet?

Well, most of the Russians live from hand to mouth, but when it comes to ladies (say, 22-40 y.o.), many are also on a lookout for wealthy men (either here or abroad), who could take up the financial brunt of their future union. Here on the site most of the ladies are either looking for that man with a wide-open wallet (of course many care for good looks as well, at least till a certain age) or have already found one (or think they have). This money they have never worked for themselves, either available now for them or craven for, heavily damages their brains and they begin to utter nonsense in many cases, I would not take it seriously. :)

Alan65
23-01-2013, 00:57
This is way exaggerated, IMO.


Apologies Mr Z....they should have been questions.

I look through a keyhole at Russia, i often ask question likes "if that is your annual income how can you afford certain things", like how do people afford a $ 40,000 car when they earn less than that per annum....basic maths and economics.

Alan65
23-01-2013, 00:59
To be fair, it is not like the Russians invented offshores though.:)

Oh ....that is completely ours, it allways comes back to us :-) ....perhaps yo can set up Uzbek as an offshore centre.

Jack17
23-01-2013, 01:03
I may be wrong here but waht I am reading from your post is that Russians are:

Borrowing from the blackmarket.
The accounting system is pretty much screwed/non existent.
Its a paper/word of mouth economy without an audit trail.
They work to survive rather than live.
They have borrowed beyond their means.
There is a major credit crash on the way for Russia.
Russians are in denial saying they are better than a basket case of Southern Europe simply due to the wave not hitting them yet?
I'd say you’re making some assumptions from what I've written that I don't think are necessarily true.

For instance, (and this is just my general opinion, no metrics to back it up) I wouldn't say that most Russians have borrowed beyond their means; in my experience, most are far more careful with their money than most Americans because any income stream is not viewed as a sure thing. Do they borrow from friends? Yes, but most are damn certain to repay those debts because a personal lender never forgets.

I have no idea if "There is a major credit crash on the way for Russia." But financial security is not a given for Russians; therefore, I'd say that most Russians are in a better position to withstand a financial collapse than their American or Western European counterparts. Russians are definitely not "in denial" they're realists to a fault which is why they're quite careful with their money - at least the women and they are the ones (for the most part) who pay the bills. I'd say, by and large, Russia is a matriarchal society.

"They work to survive rather than live."? Well, I suppose that's true for most of us without independent means. But they don't party in restaurants; a few bottles of vodka and a table full of food and you have a good time.

Now, I think the following statements are spot on:
1. Borrowing from the black-market (although, I'd call it the "personal market" to distinguish it from loan sharks).
2. It's a paper/word of mouth economy without an audit trail. Definitely!
3. The accounting system is pretty much screwed/non existent. Yes

Russian Lad
23-01-2013, 01:09
at least the women and they are the ones (for the most part) who pay the bills.

Elaborate on this one please.:)

mrzuzzo
23-01-2013, 01:11
Paper economy is not as big as it was even 1 or 2 years ago. I don't know anyone who receives their salary in cash.

One of my relatives makes 18 000 rubles a month. Even that gets sent to his Sberbank card.

For those that have had involvement with finance/accounting in firms in the west, I'd say the accounting is more or less the same. US companies use Barbados as their financial and offshore center (including really big companies), Russian companies use Cyprus and the like.

It was much more relaxed last year and simple to open up fake companies in order to get credit with no intent of paying back and other fraudulent activities, but these days legislation requires the CEO to personally go register each year at the tax office. The tax office is an incredible place, always full of CEOs, I've never seen this anywhere else.

I'm not sure what you're referring to as "borrowing from the black market" but I believe that borrowing from relatives is a worldwide phenomenon. Borrowing cash from friends/relatives is very common in the west for IT start-ups, for example. It's more common in Russia than in the west for personal "loans" because people don't have as many bills to pay and aren't already tied up in credit and loans.

Alan65
23-01-2013, 01:26
Paper economy is not as big as it was even 1 or 2 years ago. I don't know anyone who receives their salary in cash.

One of my relatives makes 18 000 rubles a month. Even that gets sent to his Sberbank card.

For those that have had involvement with finance/accounting in firms in the west, I'd say the accounting is more or less the same. US companies use Barbados as their financial and offshore center (including really big companies), Russian companies use Cyprus and the like.

It was much more relaxed last year and simple to open up fake companies in order to get credit with no intent of paying back and other fraudulent activities, but these days legislation requires the CEO to personally go register each year at the tax office. The tax office is an incredible place, always full of CEOs, I've never seen this anywhere else.

I'm not sure what you're referring to as "borrowing from the black market" but I believe that borrowing from relatives is a worldwide phenomenon. Borrowing cash from friends/relatives is very common in the west for IT start-ups, for example. It's more common in Russia than in the west for personal "loans" because people don't have as many bills to pay and aren't already tied up in credit and loans.

Nice to see the septics and Russians using our offshore banking system...please keep it up, we like the profits :-)

Both Jack and yourself have given good explanations, I used the term black market out of ignorance...borrowing within family circles explains it all well...i guess the question is "how big are the bank of mum and dad in Russia and how much is the bank of Mum and Dad being leveraged"?

Considering they got lots of free properties from the government....is it not too much different from Thatchers council property sell offs ?

Jack17
23-01-2013, 01:28
It would be difficult for me to imagine any Ruska running your home RL; but, in general, women call the shots. Many more Russian women than American manage the family financies. That's all I'll say. One of the big reasons for this is the endemic nature of alcoholism in Russia.

As for Mr. Z, I'm sure his comments are true from his perspective in Moskva. But how many Russians are working for big businesses, even in Moskva, who's pay is electronically deposited into bank accounts? If I'm an expat working for a high tech company in Moskva, well, yes, I'm sure that's true for most of the Russians and expats I know. But there are 12M Moskvich and 150M Russians. You go figure.

Also, the personal borrowing I'm thinking of is quite different than that in the West. In Russia, people aren't starting up businesses; they're paying for essentials. The personal borrowing in Russia isn't from family, it's from friends. A lot of work in Russia is on a commission basis; today you have it, tomorrow you don't. When you don't, often one Russian woman will borrow from another who does. Tomorrow, the one borrowing will have the work and the other won't. That's typically how it goes.

Russian Lad
23-01-2013, 02:26
As for Mr. Z, I'm sure his comments are true from his perspective in Moskva. But how many Russians are working for big businesses, even in Moskva, who's pay is electronically deposited into bank accounts? If I'm an expat working for a high tech company in Moskva, well, yes, I'm sure that's true for most of the Russians and expats I know. But there are 12M Moskvich and 150M Russians. You go figure.

I would say electronic payments of salaries (even under the table ones)/shady transactions are widely spread across Russia nowadays. One of the reasons is electronically travelling money is even harder to trace, in many cases. For example, I can go to the metro, use an electronic terminal there and send a bride somewhere.:) Or pay someone using Yandex Money, Skrill and even Paypal.
It is like being in an ocean with sharks, bigger fish and very small fish. Theoretically the bigger one can eat the smaller one, but the small one can grow into a big one as well, and theoretically be a shark too. An uncontrollable jungle. Well, except for TV, on TV everything is cool. Vova rules.

Jack17
23-01-2013, 02:43
One of the reasons is electronically travelling money is even harder to trace,

But not as hard to trace as cash.

yakspeare
23-01-2013, 02:58
my last school in russia paid us 42000 roubles a month. 15k on the debit card(which was also the declared salary for tax) and the rest cash in hand. pretty clear what was going on.

Arthuro
23-01-2013, 03:02
Apologies Mr Z....they should have been questions.

I look through a keyhole at Russia, i often ask question likes "if that is your annual income how can you afford certain things", like how do people afford a $ 40,000 car when they earn less than that per annum....basic maths and economics.

1. free medicine. yes, not good, but still it won't let you die
2. free housing - e.g from parents, grandparents, uncles ,etc..
3. free education.. now a little bit less than 10 yrs ago, but still most people aged around 30 and above got a free education and don't have to pay a credit fo it..
4. no kids, parents are not that old and do not need any treatment, and even help their suns and daughters (financially or household)..



If you summarize all this, you may understand that for 40000$ in Moscow (even in Moscow), you could afford things you coudn't in the US for instance
To buy an expensive car for instance

So a say 28 yr old man, living alone. could easily leave on 1k$ and put away 2k$ for his car.

Russian Lad
23-01-2013, 03:27
But not as hard to trace as cash.

Depends on many things. For example, you are a corrupt official asking me for a bribe. Here are 2 scenarios for you:
1) You suggest I come to your office with the money or meet a person to give the money to.
2) You have a bank card issued for a hobo from the street who happened to have a passport, he was paid 3 bottles of vodka for the transaction. You tell me the card number, I go to the metro, stuff the cash into the terminal, the job done. Complete anonimity on both sides.
In the scenario #1 chances are you end up like this:
Чиновник в Юšž заде€жан за полƒ‡ение взя‚ки - YouTube

Jack17
23-01-2013, 04:00
Don't understand. If it's a set up, and you're collecting under the name of the hobo and the people setting you up gave you the hobo's name - you're still busted. A set up is still a set up.

robertmf
23-01-2013, 04:13
Depends on many things. For example, you are a corrupt official asking me for a bribe. Here are 2 scenarios for you:
1) You suggest I come to your office with the money or meet a person to give the money to.


USA VP Spiro Agnew (under Nixon) knows about this method.

Russian Lad
23-01-2013, 12:10
Don't understand. If it's a set up, and you're collecting under the name of the hobo and the people setting you up gave you the hobo's name - you're still busted. A set up is still a set up.

The money would be busted, yes, but not my freedom. How would they prove I am related to this hobo in any way?:) I haven't even seen him.:) So, if they reject this method and would try to give the money in cash, you would know it is a set up, it is easy to put 2 and 2 together. This guy in the video is in big trouble for a 2 thousand dollars bribe, he could have avoided it easily if he used this simple method. For larger amounts offshore accounts are used. There is a danger that the receiving party may get funny and refuse he received the money, but in this case what you are saying is right - it is easy to trace electronic cash flows.:) He may run away with the money without doing what he promised, but this danger is also there if he receives it in cash. Welcome to Russia, we are undergoing modernization.:)

MashaSashina
23-01-2013, 14:00
Marry or go out with whomever you want Masha. But if I taught English with some large school in Moskva, I'd make maybe $2K/mo. The average wage in Moskva is less than that - and that's just the average:

http://indrus.in/articles/2012/10/05/moscow_average_wage_reaches_1500_18149.html

oh, thank you. :-) in exchange I don't mind you considering 60k as a magnet.

Russian Lad
23-01-2013, 15:37
Hey, Jack, I see the girls are unhappy with your attempts at trying to devalue their merchandise!:)

Jack17
23-01-2013, 20:00
Hey, Jack, I see the girls are unhappy with your attempts at trying to devalue their merchandise!:)
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha . . . ha, ha, ha . . . .