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kassandra
12-12-2012, 20:51
I think it makes life much more complicated. Any bonuses? Am dessperately seeking for motivation...

robertmf
12-12-2012, 20:56
I think it makes life much more complicated. Any bonuses? Am desperately seeking for motivation...

:agree: None that I can think of ...

Potty
12-12-2012, 21:06
I think it makes life much more complicated. Any bonuses? Am dessperately seeking for motivation...

To make the one who made proposal feel comfortable :D

scd167
12-12-2012, 21:11
I think it makes life much more complicated. Any bonuses? Am dessperately seeking for motivation...

There are no good reasons or bonuses for getting married...

Russian Lad
12-12-2012, 21:13
I think most men marry for a chance to have regular sex and most women marry for money.:( They call it love.:cool:

scd167
12-12-2012, 21:15
I think most men marry for a chance to have regular sex and most women marry for money.:( They call it love.:cool:

Hmm, regular sex (sex on a recurring basis) for money... sounds like prostitution and not love...

rusmeister
12-12-2012, 21:33
Because it is the normal desire of humanity.
Because it is consistent with our biology, psychology, social needs and the necessity of continuing the human race.
When done in the proper understanding, it provides a stable environment for the raising if children and is the basis of civil society.
Because we must not only be loved, but learn to love others, even when we don't "feel like it".
Because bonds of blood and sacred vows beat the heck out of "I'm tired of you, and leaving".

kassandra
12-12-2012, 21:34
I think most men marry for a chance to have regular sex and most women marry for money.:( They call it love.:cool:

Sorry for telling this but you are getting boring with that money thing. Why are you so preoccupied with that?

Nowdays there are not so many people who are starving and need to get someone to survive. Eating in posh restaraunts isnt worth of being stuck to a person you dont love. Marrage for money is terrible, it is like being in a jail. Who wants it unless there are other reasons?

kassandra
12-12-2012, 21:40
Because it is the normal desire of humanity.
Because it is consistent with our biology, psychology, social needs and the necessity of continuing the human race.
When done in the proper understanding, it provides a stable environment for the raising if children and is the basis of civil society.
Because we must not only be loved, but learn to love others, even when we don't "feel like it".
Because bonds of blood and sacred vows beat the heck out of "I'm tired of you, and leaving".


Ok all I understand is reising children. Agree.
All the rest... Rusmeister, I always wanted to ask you why oh why do you make really good stuff sound so boring? You are clever man and you post wise words here but in a manner nobody would want to follow them. Why do you do this????

Potty
12-12-2012, 21:49
Ok all I understand is reising children. Agree.
All the rest... Rusmeister, I always wanted to ask you why oh why do you make really good stuff sound so boring? You are clever man and you post wise words here but in a manner nobody would want to follow them. Why do you do this????

well, he is actually not paid for his posts

rubyrussia
12-12-2012, 21:55
Ok all I understand is reising children. Agree.
All the rest... Rusmeister, I always wanted to ask you why oh why do you make really good stuff sound so boring? You are clever man and you post wise words here but in a manner nobody would want to follow them. Why do you do this????

What do you mean by this post? He is full of wisdom / interesting thoughts but the manner in which he writes is boring? I think this is a bit of a contradiction. Don't you agree?

I like most of what he writes. Maybe some of it goes over your / our heads for some reason or another? I think a lot of people read what he writes... hence the response. Logic tells me that If it / he was totally boring, people wouldn't respond... I mean that is how boredom works, right? The drooling, unresponsive person? :sick:

kassandra
12-12-2012, 21:55
well, he is actually not paid for his posts

so what?

Russian Lad
12-12-2012, 22:06
Sorry for telling this but you are getting boring with that money thing.

Yes, women always tell me that when I raise this subject. Sooo boooring.:)

GalinaP
12-12-2012, 22:11
Re OP: to live happily ever after, why else?

kassandra
12-12-2012, 22:23
What do you mean by this post? He is full of wisdom / interesting thoughts but the manner in which he writes is boring? I think this is a bit of a contradiction. Don't you agree?

I like most of what he writes. Maybe some of it goes over your / our heads for some reason or another? I think a lot of people read what he writes... hence the response. Logic tells me that If it / he was totally boring, people wouldn't respond... I mean that is how boredom works, right? The drooling, unresponsive person? :sick:

Maybe I am wrong. Sorry if so. Normally his posts are very long and I read only a few first lines. I might get the wrong impression.
And obviously I was being too personal. One of the projects I work on at the moment is related to teaching Bible to kids. And do you know what the biggest problem is? They think religion is all about restrictions and dutes, no wonder they are not interested. I think people who make them think like that are sinners doesnt matter if they are priest or what. For me Rusmeister sounds like one of them. Again, am might be wrong.

Russian Lad
12-12-2012, 22:26
One of the projects I work on at the moment is related to teaching Bible to kids. And do you know what the biggest problem is?

The biggest problem is that you are indoctrinating children with psycho-opiate at their early stage of development, and they will grow up being androids. You may as well prick them with heroin... Glad some of them resist that BS.

BabyFirefly
12-12-2012, 22:31
Not only love but to have a good company, someone to talk to, a "best friend", etc.

I'm enjoying being married, even if it's difficult.

kassandra
12-12-2012, 22:34
The biggest problem is that you are indoctrinating children with psycho-opiate at their early stage of development, and they will grow up being androids. You may as well prick them with heroin... Glad some of them resist that BS.

No. The Bible is full of very practical advice how to be happy, successful, to get rich, to attract man being not especially beautiful. It is very useful if you are able to understand

rusmeister
12-12-2012, 22:41
Maybe I am wrong. Sorry if so. Normally his posts are very long and I read only a few first lines. I might get the wrong impression.
And obviously I was being too personal. One of the projects I work on at the moment is related to teaching Bible to kids. And do you know what the biggest problem is? They think religion is all about restrictions and dutes, no wonder they are not interested. I think people who make them think like that are sinners doesnt matter if they are priest or what. For me Rusmeister sounds like one of them. Again, am might be wrong.

You know, I think most people's posts are too short. We want to talk about the most important things in the universe, and then have all comments be short and spiffy one-liners. But it doesn't work that way. As a rule, you can only get across incomplete and shallow thoughts in a few lines. If you WANT incomplete and shallow, if you're just making chit-cat tat you don't really care about one way or the other, then a few lines is fine. But if you REALLY want to know why men and women are so unhappy and so unable to get the happiness we all want (or anything else really important), you have to get deep and serious, and look at a lot of hard and unpopular truths about ourselves.

On restrictions and duties... Well, we need them, and our age needs to be reminded of them more than other ages. But the purpose of restrictions is to create a safe place in which we can be free - and safe in being free - and without duties, we have no society - period. But we Orthodox believe very strongly in partying, too, and have just about as many feast days as fast days. But in writing, it is much more difficult to be truly and originally humorous than to be serious. I suppose I'm a bit lazy on that count.

rubyrussia
12-12-2012, 22:42
Maybe I am wrong. Sorry if so. Normally his posts are very long and I read only a few first lines. I might get the wrong impression.
And obviously I was being too personal. One of the projects I work on at the moment is related to teaching Bible to kids. And do you know what the biggest problem is? They think religion is all about restrictions and dutes, no wonder they are not interested. I think people who make them think like that are sinners doesnt matter if they are priest or what. For me Rusmeister sounds like one of them. Again, am might be wrong.

Very interesting response Kassandra. Why are you teaching children about the Bible? You are Orthodox too?

rubyrussia
12-12-2012, 22:48
You know, I think most people's posts are too short. We want to talk about the most important things in the universe, and then have all comments be short and spiffy one-liners. But it doesn't work that way. As a rule, you can only get across incomplete and shallow thoughts in a few lines. If you WANT incomplete and shallow, if you're just making chit-cat tat you don't really care about one way or the other, then a few lines is fine. But if you REALLY want to know why men and women are so unhappy and so unable to get the happiness we all want (or anything else really important), you have to get deep and serious, and look at a lot of hard and unpopular truths about ourselves.

On restrictions and duties... Well, we need them, and our age needs to be reminded of them more than other ages. But the purpose of restrictions is to create a safe place in which we can be free - and safe in being free - and without duties, we have no society - period. But we Orthodox believe very strongly in partying, too, and have just about as many feast days as fast days. But in writing, it is much more difficult to be truly and originally humorous than to be serious. I suppose I'm a bit lazy on that count.

While everyone likes speech to be concise and succinct, I agree with your one-liner comment. I can't stand that today in America that's how (most) political debates work. Could you argue or explain anything in one line? If you could would it be meaningful? Perhaps... but not most of the topics on this forum.

I mean, what would the logical responses be to why people get divorced or married? Perhaps people are just looking for some chit-chat to fulfill some sort of social requirement. After all, Rus could have responded that people get divorced because they don't want to be married anymore. Was that the response you were looking for?

rubyrussia
12-12-2012, 22:50
No. The Bible is full of very practical advice how to be happy, successful, to get rich, to attract man being not especially beautiful. It is very useful if you are able to understand

Well, I guess you could take passages to help you achieve these goals but I've not seen anything in the Bible that councils people in how to bag men and get rich. :-) Maybe that's in some "extra books" not in the Bible on my desk now? :yikes:

kassandra
12-12-2012, 22:53
Very interesting response Kassandra. Why are you teaching children about the Bible? You are Orthodox too?

Am running a few charity projects related to children. Not Orthodox. Btw does anybody know when the modern translation of Bible into english was made? Am making some investiagtion

Russian Lad
12-12-2012, 22:54
No. The Bible is full of very practical advice how to be happy, successful, to get rich, to attract man being not especially beautiful. It is very useful if you are able to understand

Just shows how much your know about this book. Have you read it at least once, in any language? I seriously doubt it... Most likely - some random passages from the New Testament...

rusmeister
12-12-2012, 22:56
No. The Bible is full of very practical advice how to be happy, successful, to get rich, to attract man being not especially beautiful. It is very useful if you are able to understand

Especially the Book of Proverbs (притчей). But I suspect that RL might find the idea of learning wisdom from someone older and wiser than oneself to be unpleasant...

robertmf
12-12-2012, 23:00
Am running a few charity projects related to children. Not Orthodox. Btw does anybody know when the modern translation of Bible into english was made? Am making some investiagtion


Keep them away from the part where God wants Abraham to kill his son :bong:

I believe the King James version is the first full English translation.

Bible versions (http://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-versions/)

Russian Lad
12-12-2012, 23:00
Especially the Book of Proverbs (притчей). But I suspect that RL might find the idea of learning wisdom from someone older and wiser than oneself to be unpleasant...

Especially Genesis 19:30-38 and some others... The children will be happy to learn something new and practice.

rusmeister
12-12-2012, 23:02
Am running a few charity projects related to children. Not Orthodox. Btw does anybody know when the modern translation of Bible into english was made? Am making some investiagtion
There are many modern translations. Some, like the Revised Standard Version (RSV) are considered more relable, but the one most universally known and accepted is the King James Version (KJV) of 1611. Some, like the ISV, change the meaning of texts to the point of unrecognizability, and so, should be avoided. Unfortunately, most of them, except the Catholic Douay-Rheims, exclude the deutero-canonical books (aka "apocrypha").

English translations of the Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The one thing to be wary of is the idea that you (anyone) can understand everything about the text you read based on your own (lack of) knowledge and understandings. Even the Ethiopian eunuch needed an interpreter, though he already had Scripture in his hands.

rubyrussia
12-12-2012, 23:08
I could be wrong here but as far as I remember (I think some wikipedia searching will give you an answer), but translating the Bible into any language was a holy crime and it might be hard to say who REALLY first started to do it. Martin Luther for example, who is a hero with most protestants while Rus, Orthodox, and Catholics consider him a heretic. I will never understand the reasoning behind why the "church" would want a Bible that people couldn't read or understand. People tend to repeat "the Bible says" without pointing out where they took the reference. I guess it could be rationalized by saying it is simpler to just tell people what the Bible said in the past (especially if your population is illiterate)? I'm not sure why the Orthodox church thinks it's dangerous for someone to read the Bible on their own. They might come to the wrong conclusion about a lot of stuff while the Orthodox church hasn't, can't, and won't (meaning it is right about everything).

rusmeister
12-12-2012, 23:08
Keep them away from the part where God wants Abraham to kill his son


Are you kidding? That's a great story!

kassandra
12-12-2012, 23:12
The one thing to be wary of is the idea that you (anyone) can understand everything about the text you read based on your own (lack of) knowledge and understandings. Even the Ethiopian eunuch needed an interpreter, though he already had Scripture in his hands.

It is too deep to understand everything. I just noticed some differences and missing parts in texts in different languages. Think it is due to translations. Have some ideas I want to check.
Thanks

Russian Lad
12-12-2012, 23:12
I just hope the parents know their children are being mentally doped.

rusmeister
12-12-2012, 23:16
I could be wrong here but as far as I remember (I think some wikipedia searching will give you an answer), but translating the Bible into any language was a holy crime and it might be hard to say who REALLY first started to do it. Martin Luther for example, who is a hero with most protestants while Rus, Orthodox, and Catholics consider him a heretic. I will never understand the reasoning behind why the "church" would want a Bible that people couldn't read or understand. People tend to repeat "the Bible says" without pointing out where they took the reference. I guess it could be rationalized by saying it is simpler to just tell people what the Bible said in the past (especially if your population is illiterate)? I'm not sure why the Orthodox church thinks it's dangerous for someone to read the Bible on their own. They might come to the wrong conclusion about a lot of stuff while the Orthodox church hasn't, can't, and won't (meaning it is right about everything).

Hey, Ruby, correction - we don't think reading the Bible on your own is dangerous - we encourage that. What we discourage is the individual drawing his own theological conclusions without reference to the Tradition of the Church, and what has been hashed out a thousand times before any of us were ever born. It's reading in a vacuum that is dangerous (Sola Scriptura), NOT reading itself.

Yes, we DO think that what everyone has always agreed upon to be right - that's what Church dogma and practice is made up of. We DON'T think that anything anyone on the Church says to be right. We have a saying: "100% of the Church fathers were 99% Orthodox". Everybody makes mistakes, but the united witness of the Church over space and time is not mistaken. Both central Protestant dogmas and the Bible itself are a product of that historical Church.

We can't really consider Luther a heretic when he was never part of our Church. To be a heretic you have to go through the process of becoming Orthodox - that is, accept the authority of the Church as the Thing established by Christ to teach us, and then deny one or more of those central teachings. Luther can only be heretical as far as the Roman Catholic Church is concerned.

franzewich
12-12-2012, 23:18
No. The Bible is full of very practical advice how to be happy, successful, to get rich, to attract man being not especially beautiful. It is very useful if you are able to understand

Didn't really want to jump into this idiotic thread, but this is now really getting too hard to bear.

The bible is doing WHAT??? Giving practical advice to get RICH??? Please show me that line, I'm really curious now! I suppose you better go back and do some more reading!

Like Luke 16:13 ESV: No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and des-pise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

Or Mark 8:36 ESV: For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?

Or (my favorite) Mark 10:25 ESV: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

Remarkable that somebody who, just a few years ago, claimed not to care about religion at all is now attempting what: TEACHING CHILDREN THE BIBLE??? Is that your way of making money yourself? Oh my Father in Heaven, please HELP and let this cup pass from these poor children! Kassandra, please, leave these kids alone!

Maybe there's another good one for you: Ephesians 4:28 ESV: Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.

Or: Matthew 7:3: And why do you look at the splinter in your brother's eye, and not notice the beam which is in your own eye?

And, kassandra, I really do not think you understand... sorry! :(

rubyrussia
12-12-2012, 23:24
Didn't really want to jump into this idiotic thread, but this is now really getting too hard to bear.

The bible is doing WHAT??? Giving practical advice to get RICH??? Please show me that line, I'm really curious now! I suppose you better go back and do some more reading!

Like Luke 16:13 ESV: No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and des-pise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

Or Mark 8:36 ESV: For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?

Or (my favorite) Mark 10:25 ESV: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

Remarkable that somebody who, just a few years ago, claimed not to care about religion at all is now attempting what: TEACHING CHILDREN THE BIBLE??? Is that your way of making money yourself? Oh my Father in Heaven, please HELP and let this cup pass from these poor children! Kassandra, please, leave these kids alone!

Maybe there's another good one for you: Ephesians 4:28 ESV: Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.

Or: Matthew 7:3: And why do you look at the splinter in your brother's eye, and not notice the beam which is in your own eye?

And, kassandra, I really do not think you understand... sorry! :(

Wow, you've dropped a very large amount of Bible versus from different places all with very different context. Sometimes I agree with my Orthodox friends who find it strange to insert chapters and numbers into the Bible as they weren't originally there. The objective in doing so, I think, was to help people find their way around the Bible, not make an argument from random verses.

I understand the spirit that Kassandra wrote the comment and of how wealth / money can be made and multiplied is also all throughout the Bible. I won't machine gun spray you with verses however. ;)

rubyrussia
12-12-2012, 23:25
And, kassandra, I really do not think you understand... sorry! :(

Are you really sorry? :D

kassandra
12-12-2012, 23:37
[QUOTE=rusmeister;1099582]You know, I think most people's posts are too short. We want to talk about the most important things in the universe, and then have all comments be short and spiffy one-liners. But it doesn't work that way. As a rule, you can only get across incomplete and shallow thoughts in a few lines. If you WANT incomplete and shallow, if you're just making chit-cat tat you don't really care about one way or the other, then a few lines is fine. But if you REALLY want to know why men and women are so unhappy and so unable to get the happiness we all want (or anything else really important), you have to get deep and serious, and look at a lot of hard and unpopular truths about ourselves.

[QUOTE]

Of course not. I look for deep and serious answers in different sources. Consider this forum as a place for nice conversation and fun.

kassandra
12-12-2012, 23:38
I just hope the parents know their children are being mentally doped.

Children are being mentally doped in the majority of schools

kassandra
12-12-2012, 23:44
I could be wrong here but as far as I remember (I think some wikipedia searching will give you an answer), but translating the Bible into any language was a holy crime and it might be hard to say who REALLY first started to do it. Martin Luther for example, who is a hero with most protestants while Rus, Orthodox, and Catholics consider him a heretic. I will never understand the reasoning behind why the "church" would want a Bible that people couldn't read or understand. People tend to repeat "the Bible says" without pointing out where they took the reference. I guess it could be rationalized by saying it is simpler to just tell people what the Bible said in the past (especially if your population is illiterate)? I'm not sure why the Orthodox church thinks it's dangerous for someone to read the Bible on their own. They might come to the wrong conclusion about a lot of stuff while the Orthodox church hasn't, can't, and won't (meaning it is right about everything).

The Bible is translated in different languages and most people read it on thier language. So am just interesting in finding differences

rubyrussia
12-12-2012, 23:49
Of course not. I look for deep and serious answers in different sources. Consider this forum as a place for nice conversation and fun.

If you look back at the history of your conversations I think you will find that you participated in nice conversations, arguments, and maybe even a few mudslingings or two as most people have. I would argue that totally meaningless conversation (or perhaps what you've been calling boring) no one would enjoy.

I think you can find deep content on expat too if you so desire or respond that Expat isn't a place where could find or engage in something deep as you've mentioned. Of course, you might even dismiss something with more substance with a one-liner that Expat isn't capable of such topics or doesn't live up to the standards of what you find deep.

I don't want to pat Rusmeister on the back too much, but he throws out a lot of content that I would call challenging and engaging and people often dismiss it with something similar that you have just written. I think at Expat you can find just about everything from bizarre weird ideas involving Lesbian sex in novels, religion and moral issues, and even the what I had for lunch thread. :)

kassandra
13-12-2012, 00:04
If you look back at the history of your conversations I think you will find that you participated in nice conversations, arguments, and maybe even a few mudslingings or two as most people have. I would argue that totally meaningless conversation (or perhaps what you've been calling boring) no one would enjoy.

I think you can find deep content on expat too if you so desire or respond that Expat isn't a place where could find or engage in something deep as you've mentioned. Of course, you might even dismiss something with more substance with a one-liner that Expat isn't capable of such topics or doesn't live up to the standards of what you find deep.

I don't want to pat Rusmeister on the back too much, but he throws out a lot of content that I would call challenging and engaging and people often dismiss it with something similar that you have just written. I think at Expat you can find just about everything from bizarre weird ideas involving Lesbian sex in novels, religion and moral issues, and even the what I had for lunch thread. :)

As I said he is very clever and this forum is full of things of all sort. I was talking only about myself. For me it is just fun although I promised myself not to provoke people for fighting as I did before. Some take it seriously.

kassandra
13-12-2012, 00:07
Are you really sorry? :D

No. He just wants to put me down. But it s ok, it comes from the previous interactions.

rubyrussia
13-12-2012, 00:23
I want to meet Rus in real life.... it would also be nice to see if he is the real deal and has one of those crazy beards.

TolkoRaz
13-12-2012, 00:58
I guess people get married because somebody else has to be put the wailing cat or barking dog out at 3 on a cold morning! :book:

franzewich
13-12-2012, 01:29
Are you really sorry? :D

Yes, I honestly feel sorry - mainly for the children, less for kassandra; she is old enough to pass as an adult.

I was raised in a Catholic boarding school, so I do know a bit about the Bible. You are right, I just wanted kassandra to give me an example of how the bible gives us "practical examples of how to get rich" - to me the biggest nonsense I've ever heard!

So I gave her some quotes which tell the opposite; a bit out of context, I admit. The bible, in principle, is a book which teaches us modesty and care, not the acquisition of wealth. I think hardly anybody would disagree with this.

I'm still waiting for a examples from kassandra which might support her claim. I'm really curious!

Jack17
13-12-2012, 01:39
To the original question: because that's what the woman wants.

robertmf
13-12-2012, 01:45
I want to meet Rus in real life.... it would also be nice to see if he is the real deal and has one of those crazy beards.

I've not met him IRL, but from his postings, he does indeed go out for a beer now and then. He seems to live somewhat out-of-town.

Ask him. I'm sure if you mentioned Chesterton 3 times and genuflect he would do a meet-up :rofl:


:11109:

franzewich
13-12-2012, 02:01
No. He just wants to put me down. But it s ok, it comes from the previous interactions.

Yes, Kassandra, I responded for personal reasons, but putting you down is not my intention. If so, I would have found so many more possibilities to do that. Sorry, if I got a bit emotional. But there are some hard facts to consider, plain to bee seen for those who have followed this forum for the last months:

1) Once you made a big fuss about supposedly caring for orphans, when, in fact, you just wanted to draw attention to yourself; bad enough. Actually, none of my business, but being a half orphan myself and knowing the bitter life in an educational children's institution, as you well know, I just felt with these kids after you lost interest in them again. This I should not have to tell you.

2) You simply are not what you try to make us all believe, a woman who would be truly interested in religion and belief. Otherwise you would have participated at least once in one of the threads in the "religion" forum. Maybe this will change, would be nice, but that fact simply tells me that you are not what you are trying to tell us; at least not, yet.

3) A couple of years ago you did not care about religion at all. I would find it wonderful if you had found your way to God now. But please understand that you cannot successfully start teaching children before you've had years of intensive study of the subject (I hope Rus will agree on this). You simply do not have this level, yet.

For these reasons you may understand that I got a bit huffy about your claims, because, IMHO, this is getting dangerous - mainly for the children. And children need to be protected against wrong teachings, would you not agree?

Please, Kassandra, do us the favor and leave these kids alone, at least for the time being until you have sufficient comprehension of the bible yourself! What you have been posting on religious issues recently, IMPO, is just shallow and undigested - again sorry for being so candid! I would be very happy if you could enhance your knowledge of the bible and continue your teaching idea at a later stage - and not drop the whole thing again when you get bored. But your all of the sudden and out of the blue interest in religion, to me, has very little credibility.

Oh, BTW, the question in your opening post you should not have asked at all. Having been married "a couple of times", as you put it, you should rather be able to answer it yourself. After all I suppose you have more experience in marriages than most of us (at least more than me). Or could it be that you never asked yourself why you married in the first place? :) You are an adult, kassandra, so please stop acting like a teenager.

rusmeister
13-12-2012, 07:59
Yes, I honestly feel sorry - mainly for the children, less for kassandra; she is old enough to pass as an adult.

I was raised in a Catholic boarding school, so I do know a bit about the Bible. You are right, I just wanted kassandra to give me an example of how the bible gives us "practical examples of how to get rich" - to me the biggest nonsense I've ever heard!

So I gave her some quotes which tell the opposite; a bit out of context, I admit. The bible, in principle, is a book which teaches us modesty and care, not the acquisition of wealth. I think hardly anybody would disagree with this.

I'm still waiting for a examples from kassandra which might support her claim. I'm really curious!

I do agree with the prior comment that one ought not to teach children a thing until one knows it well oneself, and yes, probably the worst kind of teaching is that of just reading from the Bible and then "teaching on it" outside of a clear and long established tradition. (As an admittedly Christian collection of texts, collected to establish certain things and deny others, the tradition ought to be the one that established its table of contents.) The Bible is a library of ancient texts, carefully chosen for their context, which is much bigger than any quote.

The Bible is, more than anything, the story of man told by God (and not of God told by man).

The very existence of Catholic boarding schools - and orphanages and hospitals and so on - tells me that the Catholic Church must have a lot of people that really care about others, even if your experience of it was bad. But I think the child's understanding of a religion to be the least informed and most dangerous - for the adult so educated as a child thinks he already knows the Faith he rejects, while actually knowing next to nothing about it. Knowing Bible stories and Scripture verses is a good thing - but it does not confer an adult understanding of the ancient Christian Churches.

rusmeister
13-12-2012, 08:07
I want to meet Rus in real life.... it would also be nice to see if he is the real deal and has one of those crazy beards.


I've not met him IRL, but from his postings, he does indeed go out for a beer now and then. He seems to live somewhat out-of-town.

Ask him. I'm sure if you mentioned Chesterton 3 times and genuflect he would do a meet-up :rofl:


:11109:

By "real deal" I'm guessing you mean "what he says he is". As to crazy beards, I don't have one - my wife hates them, and I'm waiting for the salt-and-pepper to turn silver-grey, anyway. My hair is already mostly there.

Anyway, if you PM me, you may someday get your wish!

peppermintpaddy
13-12-2012, 08:54
I do agree with the prior comment that one ought not to teach children a thing until one knows it well oneself, and yes, probably the worst kind of teaching is that of just reading from the Bible and then "teaching on it" outside of a clear and long established tradition. (As an admittedly Christian collection of texts, collected to establish certain things and deny others, the tradition ought to be the one that established its table of contents.) The Bible is a library of ancient texts, carefully chosen for their context, which is much bigger than any quote.

The Bible is, more than anything, the story of man told by God (and not of God told by man).

The very existence of Catholic boarding schools - and orphanages and hospitals and so on - tells me that the Catholic Church must have a lot of people that really care about others, even if your experience of it was bad. But I think the child's understanding of a religion to be the least informed and most dangerous - for the adult so educated as a child thinks he already knows the Faith he rejects, while actually knowing next to nothing about it. Knowing Bible stories and Scripture verses is a good thing - but it does not confer an adult understanding of the ancient Christian Churches.

The Bible is, more than anything, the story of man told by God (and not of God told by man).


Really rus -what absolute nonsense...in all the bovine scatology youve posted,that about takes the biscuit.

kassandra
13-12-2012, 09:14
I want to meet Rus in real life.... it would also be nice to see if he is the real deal and has one of those crazy beards.

Me too actually

kassandra
13-12-2012, 09:44
I didnt want to reply this but you have kind of force me.
First, to rubyrussa and rusmeister. I never said I teach kids the Bible, I said I run the project related to this. See the difference.

Then to franzewich - I will give you my understanding of only one qoute and very briefly. Just enough to get the idea about the way I take it. Am not going to prove I am right.


Like Luke 16:13 ESV: No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and des-pise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

(

This is how I see it: this quote is about right priorities when choosing a job. Serving money doesnt necessarily means being rich (as many people think) it is also about working for small money on a job you dont like. In this case you are still serving money although small money.
We all have different talents given us by nature or by God if you want. How do you think why? My opinion is that they show us our destination in life ment by God. Dont think you know better then God what you should do, just follow his signs and you will be rewarded.
One needs to be brave to trust this as it is against the common way to do things. But you remember what Bible say about following the common way, dont you?

And please stop telling bs about me. How do you know what I was up to a couple years ago? What do you know about my charity activities? You have never joined me for them. You know nothing about my current projects but still tell me to stop them. It is a bit annoying you know.

yakspeare
13-12-2012, 10:36
Well Kassandra, you just had to ask me :) but I am not in Russia anymore. :)

I don't say the bible can make you rich-but various pentecostal christians certainly do. In America there are books and books on it and speakers running around on the circuit preaching it. Benny Hinn is a classic example and he is certainly rich.

The idea is basically "seek ye first the kingdom of God" and then "All these things will be added unto you"...."what you give will be returned to you tenfold or hundredfold" etc. So indeed people do use it as a wealth creation strategy.not that i agree with that anyway. but the simple idea of putting God first and therefore not having a lavish lifestyle, often does have the effect you save money and thus can use that money for wealth creation later and investments.

Also by following various principles espoused in it such as "keeping your body as a temple" then you will have a less interesting life without copius amounts of alcohol, cigarettes, nightclub entry fees and possibly prostitutes etc. again you save money. just as you would certainly save money, knowing the custom of dating russian women that the men absolutely must pay for everything, if you limited to yourself to one woman and then married her.

and the proverbs are full of wisdom about money and to take care and be dilligent with it and not to waste it. the bible teaches a conservative point of view.

and ,whether us or our parents or our grandparents, mostly would have grown up in a christian household and then chosen to reject it as adults-so i do question the notion of "brainwashing" that actually takes place. My father is a devout atheist, my mother a devout christian. my mother was a stronger influence on all of us. my elder sister is a hard core christian, my other sister is an atheist, I am embraced Judaism and my other broher is agnostic. We all went to church most sundays and sunday school etc and grew up on bible stories. we all turned out quite different.

kassandra
13-12-2012, 10:51
Well Kassandra, you just had to ask me :) but I am not in Russia anymore. :)

I don't say the bible can make you rich-but various pentecostal christians certainly do. In America there are books and books on it and speakers running around on the circuit preaching it. Benny Hinn is a classic example and he is certainly rich.

The idea is basically "seek ye first the kingdom of God" and then "All these things will be added unto you"...."what you give will be returned to you tenfold or hundredfold" etc. So indeed people do use it as a wealth creation strategy.not that i agree with that anyway. but the simple idea of putting God first and therefore not having a lavish lifestyle, often does have the effect you save money and thus can use that money for wealth creation later and investments.

Also by following various principles espoused in it such as "keeping your body as a temple" then you will have a less interesting life without copius amounts of alcohol, cigarettes, nightclub entry fees and possibly prostitutes etc. again you save money. just as you would certainly save money, knowing the custom of dating russian women that the men absolutely must pay for everything, if you limited to yourself to one woman and then married her.

and the proverbs are full of wisdom about money and to take care and be dilligent with it and not to waste it. the bible teaches a conservative point of view.

and ,whether us or our parents or our grandparents, mostly would have grown up in a christian household and then chosen to reject it as adults-so i do question the notion of "brainwashing" that actually takes place. My father is a devout atheist, my mother a devout christian. my mother was a stronger influence on all of us. my elder sister is a hard core christian, my other sister is an atheist, I am embraced Judaism and my other broher is agnostic. We all went to church most sundays and sunday school etc and grew up on bible stories. we all turned out quite different.

Yes, that s what I meant. The only thing is to be careful with all that restrictions. Like avoiding drinking not because it is bad but because you have something more interesting to do. I mean genuinely more interesting for you. If somebody is actively seeking these advantageous pleasures he/she will find them, that s for sure
Nice to hear from you by the way :)

penka
13-12-2012, 11:05
To the original question: because that's what the woman wants.

You poor thing... You sound so victimized, I start to feel sorry for you.

penka
13-12-2012, 11:16
I guess everybody marries for different reasons. Anything from love and desire to be together properly to tradition, money, legal reasons, children, etc. It boils down to what one finds good and right in general and for oneself in particular. And I really don't think it is so much gender-related in the modern world....

andymackem
13-12-2012, 12:01
It's an odd question - might as well as 'why do people have friends?'

Surely on some level everyone is looking for companionship. Marriage holds out the promise of a companionship that will last a lifetime (as opposed to a drinking buddy who will last until the end of the game), and most people see value in that.

Ultimately it depends whether you think the other 'lost' opportunities are worth more or less than that companionship. And that answer will be different for everyone, depending on the individual, the other opportunities and the prospective spouse.

AstarD
13-12-2012, 12:07
To the original question: because that's what the woman wants.
They why is it that the man has to ask?

franzewich
14-12-2012, 02:33
I didnt want to reply this but you have kind of force me. ... etc.

And please stop telling bs about me. How do you know what I was up to a couple years ago? What do you know about my charity activities? You have never joined me for them. You know nothing about my current projects but still tell me to stop them. It is a bit annoying you know.

Don't really feel like replying to this either, but since you are poking me again:

You still owe me the bible text which gives us "very practical advice how ... to get rich", and please, add the one which tells "to attract man being not especially beautiful"! I'm dying to see this!

If you were telling me that the bible helps us understand how to live a life in harmony and peace, and tells us how to make optimal use of our resources, then I would be fully with you. But this, to me, is a matter of simple common sense, no use to bother God with it - but if you need a God to understand this, go ahead. :) But in no way does the bible tell us how to get rich, that's utter nonsense.

"Serving money", kassandra, simply means to worship money as a second, or as a substitute God. The zest for wealth will distract man from the path of rightousness and good judgement, that's the basic line the bible tells us - not how to make money. Sounds to me as if some U.S.American guy had some spiritual influence on you?

I'm not here to discuss bible phrases with you. If you are on the religious trip now and find pleasure in it, go ahead an keep studying the bible; at least it can't hurt. All I'm saying that you are not in a position to discuss the bible with children. After all, this summer was the first time you ever came up with a religious issue, telling us a complete whacko story about how your heart cannot be broken since you will not share it with anybody because "God gave it to you". Leave these kids alone, kassandra; I could not care less if my opinion annoys you or not! Other than that, do whatever you want.

I'm telling BS about you, really?

First: It was around winter 2009/10 when I personally asked you about belief and religion. I told you that I'm interested in this subject, although I do not believe in a God . You yourself said to me that you "did not care about religion at all", and you did not respond to my question in any way! You don't remember? Then I must suppose that, apperently, you forgot that we once were friends? :( Or maybe, to you, we never were? :( But since, as you wrote me afterwards, you "have found a new and exciting life", I must suppose that your former friends did not have any place in this new life of yours, right? That's very sad, kassandra! :( :( :( Are you surprised when former friends turn their backs on you, after you treat them with such utmost arrogance and presumptuousness? :(

Second: If you really still were into charity, you would certainly let this forum know, since drawing attention to yourself is simply part of your character. I don't mean this in a negative way, but you are a bar girl and a show girl. Even your avatar tells us that. How could I join your charity events when I've left Russia on 1. March 2010 - or have you forgotten this, too? :( BTW, I did support your first trip to Orphanage No. 59 financially, but you did not even care thanking me for this, not even in the name of the kids. But, as I suppose, you have forgotten this, too! :( So I decided to turn my attention to some other causes; there's also need in Germany, believe it or not!

Jack17
14-12-2012, 02:44
You poor thing... You sound so victimized, I start to feel sorry for you.
Thank you. I'm a fool for love.

manroger4
14-12-2012, 11:41
Thank for sharing idea.
I think that is the life of our people.
Full of life needs.

Potty
14-12-2012, 12:30
there's also need in Germany, believe it or not!

franzewich, sorry for interfering in your discussion. But could you tell me more about it?:question:

penka
14-12-2012, 12:38
Thank you. I'm a fool for love.

Carry a mistletoe with you and may happiness smile at you.

franzewich
14-12-2012, 22:32
franzewich, sorry for interfering in your discussion. But could you tell me more about it?:question:

Hahaha, no reason to apologize, Potty! This "discussion" is over, and I feel that I should have started it in at the first place; I just hate to see children being abused for personal interests, and I despise pretentiousness. :( Sorry, if I lost my temper – I promise improvement! :)

I moved your question and started a new thread in the „charity“ forum under “International Pen-Friendships” – I just feel this issue has no real purpose at this place here. Let's give kassandra some space to receive some good advice on her lacking motivation to marry a third time, since the poor woman still does not seem to know, or to feel, the "whys" even after two previous marriages. ;)

*******

Oh, BTW, kassandra, before I forget, one piece of valuable advice I wanted to give you, more to motivate your BF: don't forget to get a divorce first before you ask another man to marry you; at least don't lie to him about your marital status! :) Men are more sensitive than you think, in case you wonder. They are perfectly able to feel that something is wrong with your stories! :)

Potty
14-12-2012, 22:41
Let's give kassandra some space to receive some good advice on her lacking motivation to marry a third time, since the poor woman still does not seem to know, or to feel, the "whys" even after two previous marriages. ;)

*******

Oh, BTW, kassandra, before I forget, one piece of valuable advice I wanted to give you, more to motivate your BF: don't forget to get a divorce first before you ask another man to marry you; at least don't lie to him about your marital status! :) Men are more sensitive than you think, in case you wonder. They are perfectly able to feel that something is wrong with your stories! :)
franzewich, I know kassandra thinks I am a beech (I found out that its a nice tree), but you are not a gentleman if you say such stuff. People here tell details of their private life not for being an easy target afterwards. Nobody deserves that!!!! This is what you get when you try to be open and sincere to people.

And you ask me why I am not nice ? People , what is going on with you?

TolkoRaz
14-12-2012, 22:47
Hahaha, no reason to apologize, Potty! This "discussion" is over, and I feel that I should have started it in at the first place; I just hate to see children being abused for personal interests, and I despise pretentiousness. :( Sorry, if I lost my temper – I promise improvement! :)

I moved your question and started a new thread in the „charity“ forum under “International Pen-Friendships” – I just feel this issue has no real purpose at this place here. Let's give kassandra some space to receive some good advice on her lacking motivation to marry a third time, since the poor woman still does not seem to know, or to feel, the "whys" even after two previous marriages. ;)

*******

Oh, BTW, kassandra, before I forget, one piece of valuable advice I wanted to give you, more to motivate your BF: don't forget to get a divorce first before you ask another man to marry you; at least don't lie to him about your marital status! :) Men are more sensitive than you think, in case you wonder. They are perfectly able to feel that something is wrong with your stories! :)

Reading between the lines, you should both sort out your personal matters in private by PM or email etc and move on from your soured relationship.

Its too cold out there to be airing your dirty washing in public! ;)

franzewich
14-12-2012, 23:39
Reading between the lines, you should both sort out your personal matters in private by PM or email etc and move on from your soured relationship.

Its too cold out there to be airing your dirty washing in public! ;)

Why? She is asking for advice, and I give it to her, first hand! And even for free! What's wrong with this? She doesn't mind doing the same, so it must be GREAT FUN for her! No reason to complain! Or are you concerned that little princess is able to deliver punches, but not able to take them?

Besides, she still can put me on ignore, if she has not done this, yet! I would not mind! :)

TolkoRaz
14-12-2012, 23:46
Fair game, its up to you both, but lets not have another Soap Opera! ;)

Its coming up to Christmas, so I would hope that we can all be charitable with one another, well hopefully at least until after the New Year! ;)

franzewich
14-12-2012, 23:46
franzewich, I know kassandra thinks I am a beech (I found out that its a nice tree), but you are not a gentleman if you say such stuff. People here tell details of their private life not for being an easy target afterwards. Nobody deserves that!!!! This is what you get when you try to be open and sincere to people.

And you ask me why I am not nice ? People , what is going on with you?

Thank you for your advice, Potty, I will take it seriously. It's nice to be a "beech", I suppose!

Don't worry about kassandra, she like men a lot who are rude and are putting others down. No dirty laundry, just statements open to be seen for everyone in this forum, no secrets told. So she won't mind!

But since you ask me so nicely, I will stop.

franzewich
14-12-2012, 23:53
Fair game, its up to you both, but lets not have another Soap Opera! ;)

Its coming up to Christmas, so I would hope that we can all be charitable with one another, well hopefully at least until after the New Year! ;)

C'mon, Tolko - you guys LOVE soap operas. Why not combine it with a little educational value? I guess this forum needs some kicks anyway, since obnoxious "drtnsnw" has disappeared, much to the deep sorrow of kassandra, she enjoyed his legendary under-the-belt bashings of "Willy". So where's the problem? It has gotten way too lame!

Potty
15-12-2012, 00:00
C'mon, Tolko - you guys LOVE soap operas. Why not combine it with a little educational value?

What educational value? To remind her and announce everyone who doesn't know yet that she had divorces? I am sure she remembers that and it's not anyone else' business.

franzewich
15-12-2012, 00:21
What educational value? To remind her and announce everyone who doesn't know yet that she had divorces? I am sure she remembers that and it's not anyone else' business.

The educational value are the answers to her question - what else? I'm not answering anything which I do not consider a valuable lesson for her - it is all for her best!

BTW, I was not announcing anything she has not openly told this forum herself before:

http://www.expat.ru/forum/showpost.php?p=815532&postcount=26

Don't worry: I will refrain from posting some more... Interesting stuff, though!

BabyFirefly
15-12-2012, 00:52
Something going on in Moscow that's making everyone angry and beech-y?

franzewich
15-12-2012, 01:10
Something going on in Moscow that's making everyone angry and beech-y?

:) No, just did some cleaning out of old documents recently and was confronted with some shocking and disappointing revelations. Plus anger about my own stupidity and blindness, that's all. Besides, I'm not in Moscow any more, so it can't be the weather.

But since I promised Potty to behave, no more advice to kassandra from my side.

To bad, somehow I was in the mood for a good fight! :)

TolkoRaz
15-12-2012, 01:19
If you are in Munich, enjoy the 'Weihnachtsmärkte, Bratwurst, Pomme Fritte mit Mayo und Gluhwein' :)

Judge
15-12-2012, 01:24
Something going on in Moscow that's making everyone angry and beech-y?

Woland is in town .:evilgrin:

franzewich
15-12-2012, 01:39
If you are in Munich, enjoy the 'Weihnachtsmärkte, Bratwurst, Pomme Fritte mit Mayo und Gluhwein' :)

:) Sorry, quit smoking (again!), need a diet now!

Yes, we have tons of snow and I'll go to a "Christkindlmarkt" tomorrow. Will have some Glühwein, of course, and will try not to wreck my car on the icy roads. ;)

Bratwurst? Well, which one do you prefer? The most famous are from Nuremberg (small and tasty), there are also in Franken (Franconia), a bit bigger, also very good, there are in Munich (besides the "Weißwurst", of course). The "Regensburger" from my hometown are a bit thicker (some call them perverse), and can be fried or just heated, or eaten cold in a sauage salad with vinagar and onions. So which one? You hungry now! :)

Pommes Frittes with mayo? Pfui Teufel - this is something the Prussians may eat (or the Dutch; right, Ezik?!), but not a real Bavarian!

franzewich
15-12-2012, 01:40
Woland is in town .:evilgrin:

Sorry, did not catch that one (I haven't had any Glühwein, yet, I swear!)

robertmf
15-12-2012, 01:47
Woland is in town .:evilgrin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woland

franzewich
15-12-2012, 01:56
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woland

Shame on me! :shame: What a "Kunstbanause" I am!

Thank's a lot, now I know what I want for X-Mas - a Bulgakov collection! :)

To my humble defense I may say that I just bought Tchechov's "Sea Gull" recently, and have about two dozen unread books on my nightstand. Well, there's X-Mas brake. Hope the weather will be horrible in Germany and my GF will have to prepare for an exam! ;)

TolkoRaz
15-12-2012, 01:56
:) Sorry, quit smoking (again!), need a diet now!

Yes, we have tons of snow and I'll go to a "Christkindlmarkt" tomorrow. Will have some Glühwein, of course, and will try not to wreck my car on the icy roads. ;)

Bratwurst? Well, which one do you prefer? The most famous are from Nuremberg (small and tasty), there are also in Franken (Franconia), a bit bigger, also very good, there are in Munich (besides the "Weißwurst", of course). The "Regensburger" from my hometown are a bit thicker (some call them perverse), and can be fried or just heated, or eaten cold in a sauage salad with vinagar and onions. So which one? You hungry now! :)

Pommes Frittes with mayo? Pfui Teufel - this is something the Prussians may eat (or the Dutch; right, Ezik?!), but not a real Bavarian!

Thüringer Bratwurst für mich! :)

franzewich
15-12-2012, 01:59
Thüringer Bratwurst! :)

Sorry, no weird imports to Bavaria from Socialist territory, Genosse! :(

robertmf
15-12-2012, 02:59
Originally Posted by TolkoRaz
Thüringer Bratwurst!



Sorry, no weird imports to Bavaria from Socialist territory, Genosse! :(

Is that the white sausage that looks like a dick (penis) :question:

franzewich
15-12-2012, 03:15
Is that the white sausage that looks like a dick (penis) :question:

Every sausage looks like a d!ck. Some more realistic than others.

BTW, is this your contribution to kassandra's opening question about motivation to marry?

You think she needs your advice? :evilgrin:

DraCat
15-12-2012, 10:33
I think that motivation appears together with the right person to marry :)

because it is nice to have someone you love by your side, so when you want a hug, you don't have to set a date and travel for an hour :) all kisses and cuddles are just by your side :)

and there's someone to bring you tea and painkiller when you have headache, and it's nice to take care about someone too :)

Am I the only romantic girl here? :))

franzewich
15-12-2012, 10:44
I think that motivation appears together with the right person to marry :)

because it is nice to have someone you love by your side, so when you want a hug, you don't have to set a date and travel for an hour :) all kisses and cuddles are just by your side :)

and there's someone to bring you tea and painkiller when you have headache, and it's nice to take care about someone too :)

Am I the only romantic girl here? :))

You are perfectly (all)right! :)

TolkoRaz
15-12-2012, 11:14
Sorry, no weird imports to Bavaria from Socialist territory, Genosse! :(

I used to work in the DDR (GDR), so I much prefer their Bratties to those from the Capitalist West! :p

franzewich
15-12-2012, 11:22
I used to work in the DDR (GDR), so I much prefer their Bratties to those from the Capitalist West! :p

If you worked in the "DDR", how could you compare? :)

But, jokes aside: I also think their sausages are great, like so many food items in East Germany.

Maybe we should open a new "Bratwurst"-thread and not "thread-jack" this one? ;)

TolkoRaz
15-12-2012, 11:25
If you worked in the "DDR", how could you compare? :)


I had frequent & regular access to West Berlin! ;) So, I could enjoy delicacies on both sides of the Mauer!

kassandra
15-12-2012, 11:34
I know kassandra thinks I am a beech

I hate you because you are a woman.

Seriously I am strongly disagree with some of your posts but to think you are a beech would be a way too much. People have different attitudes

franzewich
15-12-2012, 11:34
I had frequent & regular access to West Berlin! ;) So, I could enjoy delicacies on both sides of the Mauer!

That's good, actually, that you were able the see the differences. I had the chance to see East Berlin in 1986, three years before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Not that everything is all that great in the western part of Germany, but even walking through the East German capital was dreary and depressing.

TolkoRaz
15-12-2012, 12:08
That's good, actually, that you were able the see the differences. I had the chance to see East Berlin in 1986, three years before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Not that everything is all that great in the western part of Germany, but even walking through the East German capital was dreary and depressing.

The benefits of enjoying Cafe und Kuchen in West Berlin's Cafe Kranzlers in the afternoon followed by a hearty meal in the East's Gannymede Restaurant cannot be understated! :) On one occasion, I once sat next to Katrina Witt! :)

franzewich
15-12-2012, 12:40
The benefits of enjoying Cafe und Kuchen in West Berlin's Cafe Kranzlers in the afternoon followed by a hearty meal in the East's Gannymede Restaurant cannot be understated! :) On one occasion, I once sat next to Katrina Witt! :)

Whow! Witt - the East German "Wendehals"! ;)

I just remember desperately trying to spend these stup!d 20 Ostmark, which we had to get in the "Zwangsumtausch"! There was nothing to buy, and all the museums were free! Finally we felt sick because we spent the money in cafés, gulping down three pieces of cake with five cups of coffee plus "Eierlikör" and brandy. In theend we could eat no more and bought chocolate at the last S-Bahn-Station in East Berlin. We threw it away later, it tasted so awful!

TolkoRaz
15-12-2012, 14:01
'Ostie' Kuchen were not that tasty either! ;)

NotMe
15-12-2012, 14:37
I think that motivation appears together with the right person to marry:)

because it is nice to have someone you love by your side, so when you want a hug, you don't have to set a date and travel for an hour :) all kisses and cuddles are just by your side :)
:))


I suppose when woman falls in love, she wants to have "exclusive". :)

Marriage can't provide 100% guarantee, but at least decreases the chance that you will have to share your man with someone else. :fudd:

natlee
15-12-2012, 14:37
Only on here can a discussion on marriage turn into one on sausages :eek: ;)

NotMe
15-12-2012, 14:43
Only on here can a discussion on marriage turn into one on sausages :eek: ;)

When gentlemen are hungry, they are unable to speak about anything except food. :D

GalinaP
15-12-2012, 15:13
All in all, the institution of marriage is overrated I think. Like the notorious academics, who never retire but just lose their faculties, a true woman never marries - she just slowly but surely occupies the central part of her man's universe.

robertmf
15-12-2012, 18:36
When gentlemen are hungry, they are unable to speak about anything except food. :D

"The way to a man’s heart is through his stomach"

Potty
15-12-2012, 18:42
a true woman never marries - she just slowly but surely occupies the central part of her man's universe.

:eek:

robertmf
15-12-2012, 18:47
a true woman never marries - she just slowly but surely occupies the central part of her man's universe.

:eek:


Like a tapeworm :question:

rusmeister
15-12-2012, 18:56
All in all, the institution of marriage is overrated I think.
I could not disagree more. Marriage is vastly underrated in our time - witness the number of people who think society can get along without it.

Everyone wants to be raised as a child in a stable family with a mother and father that are faithful to each other. But then, as adults, they want to be "free" to break up when things are difficult and unpleasant. It's a kind of hypocrisy, which translates literally as insufficient self-criticism.
It boils down to:
"I want my parents to be what I myself am unwilling to be."

franzewich
15-12-2012, 19:20
When gentlemen are hungry, they are unable to speak about anything except food. :D

Well, then it should be the women's job to arouse our appetite for something else! :10301:

franzewich
15-12-2012, 19:27
I could not disagree more. Marriage is vastly underrated in our time - witness the number of people who think society can get along without it.

Everyone wants to be raised as a child in a stable family with a mother and father that are faithful to each other. But then, as adults, they want to be "free" to break up when things are difficult and unpleasant. It's a kind of hypocrisy, which translates literally as insufficient self-criticism.
It boils down to:
"I want my parents to be what I myself am unwilling to be."

Rus, I think the subject of this thread, except bible teaching to kids, personal punches, sausages and Glühwein, is the "motivation" for getting married. To be quite honest, I still haven't quite understood the rational behind this question :question: Maybe you've got an idea?

franzewich
15-12-2012, 19:30
Like a tapeworm :question:



This was mean! :redcard: (couldn't help chuckling, though!)

Jack17
15-12-2012, 20:16
The answer to the question, "Why do people get married?" is manifold. There are many reasons: a) social position, b) money, c) provide a stable, loving environment in which to raise children, etc.

But probably peoples' first answer would be - love. If that is the reason, then I think the real reason behind that is: Alle Lust will Ewigkeit, "all desire wants eternity", to quote Nietzsche. We fall in love and we want that state of bliss to last forever, which, of course, it seldom does. Marriage is our attempt to hold fast and make permanent what all too easily slips away.

rusmeister
15-12-2012, 20:57
Rus, I think the subject of this thread, except bible teaching to kids, personal punches, sausages and Glühwein, is the "motivation" for getting married. To be quite honest, I still haven't quite understood the rational behind this question :question: Maybe you've got an idea?

I speak to the general rule. I think one of the biggest problems in the world today is in confusing rules and exceptions, and marriage is no exception. The normal person does not really want to be old and alone. He or she wants more than mutual orgasms with temporary "partners". Sure, we want physical love, but also the emotional kind, and fulfillment of being, and the normal person feels that something IS missing on some level that the opposite sex provides, and again, wants it to last. All of the sappy love songs attest to this.

I don't see a lot of popular songs with lines like
"I'll love you till I'm tired of you
Let's have a quickie now
And when you call me tomorrow
The number will have been changed"

But there are a ton promising eternal or lifelong faithfulness.
Or all of the lovers cutting their initials inside of a heart on a tree or whatever. That's the motivation.

robertmf
15-12-2012, 21:13
But there are a ton promising eternal or lifelong faithfulness.


:7534: Baby Love [The Supremes] *With Lyrics* - YouTube

franzewich
15-12-2012, 21:16
I speak to the general rule. I think one of the biggest problems in the world today is in confusing rules and exceptions, and marriage is no exception. The normal person does not really want to be old and alone. He or she wants more than mutual orgasms with temporary "partners". Sure, we want physical love, but also the emotional kind, and fulfillment of being, and the normal person feels that something IS missing on some level that the opposite sex provides, and again, wants it to last. All of the sappy love songs attest to this.

I don't see a lot of popular songs with lines like
"I'll love you till I'm tired of you
Let's have a quickie now
And when you call me tomorrow
The number will have been changed"

But there are a ton promising eternal or lifelong faithfulness.
Or all of the lovers cutting their initials inside of a heart on a tree or whatever. That's the motivation.

Nicely put! :)

So what is your answer to kassandra's question? Just curious! :)

Maybe, as Carl Reiner put it: "Lust is easy. Love is hard. Liking is the most important." :question:

franzewich
15-12-2012, 21:20
The answer to the question, "Why do people get married?" is manifold. There are many reasons: a) social position, b) money, c) provide a stable, loving environment in which to raise children, etc.

But probably peoples' first answer would be - love. If that is the reason, then I think the real reason behind that is: Alle Lust will Ewigkeit, "all desire wants eternity", to quote Nietzsche. We fall in love and we want that state of bliss to last forever, which, of course, it seldom does. Marriage is our attempt to hold fast and make permanent what all too easily slips away.

I'd rather say "Gut Ding' will Weile haben!" ('A Good Thing Needs Time!')

Aren't most of us either too quick (from desire) or too hesitant (from previous experiences)?

rusmeister
15-12-2012, 21:32
The answer to the question, "Why do people get married?" is manifold. There are many reasons: a) social position, b) money, c) provide a stable, loving environment in which to raise children, etc.

But probably peoples' first answer would be - love. If that is the reason, then I think the real reason behind that is: Alle Lust will Ewigkeit, "all desire wants eternity", to quote Nietzsche. We fall in love and we want that state of bliss to last forever, which, of course, it seldom does. Marriage is our attempt to hold fast and make permanent what all too easily slips away.

You know, I think this is almost really right. It captures the state of falling in love perfectly, and that is exactly what happens to the state of falling in love.

But it seems horribly incomplete, like expecting a car to operate on its battery all the time. The purpose of the battery is to START the engine, not keep it running all the time. After the engine is going, it has to feed energy into recharging the battery. So it is with love. The falling in love brings a man and a woman together. But it must be gradually replaced by a deeper love, that deals with dirty socks and underwear, farting, toothpaste tubes squeezed "the wrong way", and we must learn to love the person we fell in love with for who they really are, after the glamour of falling in love fades.

The thing that enables us to withstand the "slipping away" is our attitude. The simple words of Sam Gamgee to Frodo: "I made a promise. A PROMISE, Mr Frodo!" with no escape hatches, get out of jail free cards or whatever you see as a way of breaking your word. We are bound to encounter unhappiness in marriage. But I don't think it has to remain that way. I think that in 99.999% of all cases, it depends on our attitude. Normal people, even if we find ourselves in struggles and falling apart, bewildered at love seeming to turn to hate, can turn around if we turn OURSELVES around. But the problem is, we resist the idea of changing ourselves.

rusmeister
15-12-2012, 21:42
Nicely put! :)

So what is your answer to kassandra's question? Just curious! :)

Maybe, as Carl Reiner put it: "Lust is easy. Love is hard. Liking is the most important." :question:

I think I've answered the question on the motives of ordinary people cearly enough.

I don't think I can say anything authoritative about Kassandra, not knowing her personally, and have to intention of getting embroiled in a past relationship between you two. I think there are two sides to a story, sometimes both parties are equally at fault, at other times oe party is much more at fault, but above all, we are usually not terribly willing to admit where we ourselves are at fault.

NotMe
15-12-2012, 22:30
Well, then it should be the women's job to arouse our appetite for something else! :10301:

:10301:

Potty
15-12-2012, 22:36
wow. A woman with her 3 next ex-husbands :nut:

robertmf
15-12-2012, 22:37
:10301:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh how kinky :mml: Beastiality :trampoline:

:whisper: Have you ever seen how long is a donkey or mule ..ahem.. schlong :question:

NotMe
15-12-2012, 22:45
wow. A woman with her 3 next ex-husbands :nut:

I would say: with her friend, potential fiance (left) and next ex-husband (right). :p

franzewich
15-12-2012, 23:27
... have to intention of getting embroiled in a past relationship between you two. I think there are two sides to a story, sometimes both parties are equally at fault, at other times oe party is much more at fault, but above all, we are usually not terribly willing to admit where we ourselves are at fault.

Who asked you to do this? :( You are right, you have no idea... So please refrain from any comments in this matter! :(

rusmeister
15-12-2012, 23:31
Who asked you to do this? :( You are right, you have no idea... So please refrain from any comments in this matter! :(

Uh, major misunderstanding, made worse by a typo on my part - I meant NO intention. Don't worry! I don't want to get involved! That's why I don't want o take sides, either...

TolkoRaz
16-12-2012, 00:55
:10301:

Nice Ass! ;)

robertmf
05-01-2013, 04:59
:545:

Jas
05-01-2013, 06:15
Why do people get married?
Er, cos they're dad will kill them and they got no choice?

rusmeister
05-01-2013, 11:19
:545:

There are two kinds of people who won't find that funny - those to whom it is deadly serious and those (like myself) who think that, not a normal and reasonably happy marriage, but a grossly dysfunctional one. The people who will laugh at that imagine marriage in general to be such an unhappy thing.

Similarly, Jas's comment conflates a strange exception that affects a tiny portion of the world into a normal rule for all of us. But it is NOT normal. It is another gross exception, and entirely irrelevant to western civilization.

Jas
05-01-2013, 13:39
Similarly, Jas's comment conflates a strange exception that affects a tiny portion of the world into a normal rule for all of us. But it is NOT normal. It is another gross exception, and entirely irrelevant to western civilization.

If u was to take a honest poll of the reasons for marriage- u wud find that most of them was forced.
Forced is of two kinds. U got FORCED as in 'do this or we will do terrible stuff to u.'
But forced is subtle also- like to get money, keep respectable, for a million economic reasons also- for the sake of kids too.
So Rus, ure just trying to mean that I am talking about my own experience- when the truth is that although marriage is a very important thing that I do in fact support- it is very often not done out of choice.
I think u shud stop trying to 'other' me. Just sayin'.

rusmeister
05-01-2013, 15:30
If it comes to that, we are "forced" to breathe, to eat, to defecate, to be born and to die. But in western civilization, the only one that matters for us, people are not forced in the sense of the word that you wish to affix - the sensational one of gunpoint. Marriage is overwhelmingly a matter of choice.

Jas
05-01-2013, 17:51
If it comes to that, we are "forced" to breathe, to eat, to defecate, to be born and to die. But in western civilization, the only one that matters for us, people are not forced in the sense of the word that you wish to affix - the sensational one of gunpoint. Marriage is overwhelmingly a matter of choice.

It's the choice of someone who is drowning, often, making the supposedly free choice (ha ha ha) of scrambling for the nearest life jacket she can find.

Potty
05-01-2013, 17:55
My marriage was forced. But I don't complain ))) no, I do complain a little bit. Sometimes.

robertmf
05-01-2013, 18:05
My marriage was forced. But I don't complain ))) no, I do complain a little bit. Sometimes.

:10168: "Arranged marriage" or "shotgun wedding" :question:

Jas
05-01-2013, 18:05
My marriage was forced. But I don't complain ))) no, I do complain a little bit. Sometimes.

Forced...
Did they spike ure orange juice and con you into boarding the plane to Karachi. We must have been on the same flight or something.

Potty
05-01-2013, 18:44
Forced...
Did they spike ure orange juice and con you into boarding the plane to Karachi. We must have been on the same flight or something.

:eek:

Potty
05-01-2013, 18:51
:10168: "Arranged marriage" or "shotgun wedding" :question:




yeah, shotgun one.

Jas
05-01-2013, 22:39
yeah, shotgun one.

Forced by society. Maybe in ure case it was love though too!:7534:

Potty
05-01-2013, 23:00
Forced by society. Maybe in ure case it was love though too!:7534:

Society? Oh , please )))) F**k them all. This never worked for me. I just think we got married way too early. He was extremely pushy. I think we should have stayed "friends" a bit longer. Marriage is still very difficult for me. In my opinion it doesn't make any sense if the couple doesn't plan kids, and the best form of relationship when a couple does has kids. So, in our case it's acceptable))

rusmeister
06-01-2013, 08:35
Society? Oh , please )))) F**k them all. This never worked for me. I just think we got married way too early. He was extremely pushy. I think we should have stayed "friends" a bit longer. Marriage is still very difficult for me. In my opinion it doesn't make any sense if the couple doesn't plan kids, and the best form of relationship when a couple does has kids. So, in our case it's acceptable))

I think there's a good reason why you put "friends" in quotation marks.

There is almost no such thing as "marrying too early", not among adults old enough to vote, bear arms and die for their country.

Marriage is difficult for everyone, sooner or later. But in the long run, being alone is MORE difficult.

A couple may be unable to have children, and children may appear even if "unplanned".
The former may still, having lived through the phases of seeing their beloved as an angel, then their spouse as a devil, then finally realizing that they are no worse than we are, and learn to love them on a different and higher level.
The latter must care for and raise the unplanned child (unless they murder it, of course).

The relationship, when not marriage founded on a sacred vow, is founded on sand. The "partner" may take his things and leave you tomorrow, with no social stigma whatsoever. And all of the other relationships - mutual friends, in-laws, are broken in that moment. Indeed, without marriage, the in-laws cannot even be in-laws. They want to treat the young woman or young man as a member of the family, but are constrained because, unlike our blood family, the "partner" may up and go at any time. Mutual friends stop seeing each other. If one of the "partners" remains solidly in your life, the other "partner" inevitably drops out.

What is "acceptable" means that someone can accept it. But the someone may be unwise in accepting a thing they do not see all sides of. Above all, I think words "like "acceptable" and "value" have come to replace the word "moral", because morals may not be sold, have no commercial value and so are non-negotiable, whereas values can vary and are by definition subjective and even commercial, and the Nazis found many things "acceptable" that we do not.

Again, I think there is a very good reason why you (correctly) put the word "friends" in quotation marks, aka "scare quotes".

Potty
07-01-2013, 13:22
Rus, everything you say is from point of view of a mature family man. Remember yourself when you were like 18 (oh, I hope you were not already married then :-)))))). Well, I think it is not age even. People can be not ready for marriage and kids at 30. What is the right motivation to have kids? What if you don't have any? Why is it wrong if it is just who you are? Now I know the answers to these questions applying to my own life, but THEN I had no idea.

rusmeister
07-01-2013, 15:26
Rus, everything you say is from point of view of a mature family man. Remember yourself when you were like 18 (oh, I hope you were not already married then :-)))))). Well, I think it is not age even. People can be not ready for marriage and kids at 30. What is the right motivation to have kids? What if you don't have any? Why is it wrong if it is just who you are? Now I know the answers to these questions applying to my own life, but THEN I had no idea.
Well, I DO remember myself at 18, mostly with a fair amount of regret, and wishing that I knew then what I know now.

I grant that in our society today, people are expressly taught to be not ready for marriage, and young men and women are highly discouraged from the outset of even thinking about it. But my older brother married at eighteen and is now a rather young grandfather with five grandkids, and is still with his wife.

I think the whole thing of saying "this is who I am" - someone "incapable" of marrying and taking on responsibility is mere acceptance of what we have been taught and abdication of responsibility. When we discover this, we need
to change our attitude as quickly as possible. To say, "You know what? I'm 18, 19, whatever and old enough to vote, drive large metal machines capable of killing people and die for my country. I'd better grow up."

I think finding the right philosophy of life as soon as possible the most important thing. If you have that, you can get married at sixteen and be fine for life. It is only our deeply ill society in our time, driven and taught by people who get rich from having most people be adult children, that thinks any different. Pretty much anybody can, unless they are specially called to monasticism or something of that sort. That means realizing that our ancestors were right, and our "freedom" is mere anarchy, that sex ought to be contained in marriage, that marriage must be a sacred vow for life, never to be broken, that children are a natural and generally essential part of family life, that family life and not swinging at clubs and discos is the normal life of man; in a word, what the entire world has always held as the sane and normal view.

Potty
07-01-2013, 15:34
that children are a natural and generally essential part of family life, that family life and not swinging at clubs and discos is the normal life of man; in a word, what the entire world has always held as the sane and normal view.

You are right. But I think it is much more valuable when you come to this by yourself, not as the result of what you've been taught. And it takes quite much time.

Potty
07-01-2013, 15:45
But my older brother married at eighteen and is now a rather young grandfather with five grandkids, and is still with his wife..
It worked for him. I was a baby at 18. Physically and mentally.

rusmeister
07-01-2013, 17:35
It worked for him. I was a baby at 18. Physically and mentally.

You can grow up VERY quickly - in a day, or an hour, if you need to. 12-year old boys couldn't afford to be boys in the Seige of Leningrad. They simply died if they didn't grow up. What I'm saying is that an artificial childishness imposed on us can be thrown off quickly, and will, if only the will to live, plays an enormous role in that.

Not I, nor anyone is saying that one must be a mature forty or fifty-year old in order to be a decent parent. Indeed, the job is given to the greatest amateurs in the world, and rightly so, for the amateur parent loves their children, and it is precisely the professional that loves them far less.

We are bound to do things wrong, and yes, parenting approaches change and mature over time. Bt it is simply not true to imply that the average young woman cannot be an adequate mother (or young man an adequate father).

You couldn't have been a baby physically at 18; your body had certainly undergone puberty and must have been physically capable of bearing children. Mentally, the main thing you need to face is that a little person who is part of you, flesh of your flesh, NEEDS you to grow up fast, and his or her life is in your hands. The essential minimum of growing up is ALWAYS possible in the face of that. (Obviously I do not speak of autists with Down Syndrome here.) And then you MUST come to that by yourself, and right away, without dithering about "needing more time". The baby comes when it comes. You generally have nine months warning and preparation.

Anyway, all of that is to say that it is the normal state of affairs for the post-pubescent man or woman to mature and establish families, and it is our radically dysfunctional time that encourages sexual lust right after puberty and denies the normal outlet of marriage for a decade or more after that, and actively teaches people that a seventeen-year old is a child, that marriage is unnecessary and may be redefined at will, anyway. We must allow the monstrosity of two men (or two women, soon to be three or more) to be "married", while we are told that ordinary lovers no longer need marry and married people need not stay married. (How backwards and upside-down are we willing to let things get?) If that is not imposition from centralized interests, then I'll be a monkey's uncle.

As I said, the forces that started, and continue to encourage this - particularly the monied families behind big government and big business, benefit from having weak and broken families and adult children, and do everything in their considerable power, with their tools of schooling and the media, to convince us that an eighteen-year old is a baby, mentally and physically (the spiritual aspect being a thing they would prefer (us) to think doesn't really exist).

I hope none of that seems like a personal attack. I don't intend any such thing.

Potty
07-01-2013, 17:52
well. I totally disagree.

Potty
07-01-2013, 17:52
I think you are too strict to women.

Potty
07-01-2013, 18:08
I don't get. You are saying that all people at the age of 18 are ready to make a family and have children? And they have to do it? That's insane. Look around you. Are you talking about real people ?

rusmeister
07-01-2013, 22:42
well. I totally disagree.
OK. Not much I can do about that, I guess.


I think you are too strict to women.
To WOMEN??? I think that I am calling MEN, even more than women, to a higher standard and greater accountability, to not abandoning the women they chose and the children they begot. That seems to me rather a defense of women more than anything else.


I don't get. You are saying that all people at the age of 18 are ready to make a family and have children? And they have to do it? That's insane. Look around you. Are you talking about real people ?

i do NOT say "they ARE ready". I say they can get ready very quickly, and that will, conscience and circumstances can force one to get "ready".

I defend sanity against the raging insanity of the modern world. Sanity is in the traditional family, not in the hundred forms of anarchical destruction in the name of "freedom" and "independence" and abandonment, refusal and denial of the family because adults refuse to grow up.

Jack17
07-01-2013, 23:36
I don't get. You are saying that all people at the age of 18 are ready to make a family and have children? And they have to do it? That's insane. Look around you. Are you talking about real people ?
You might not have been at 18 Potty. I think the same is true for the vast majority of 18 year olds today. They're mostly spoiled and pampered; little is expected of them and, therefore, they are capable of little.

But that's today. Rus is quite right; 100 or more years ago I'd say your average 18 year old was equivalent in maturity to your average 38 year old today. 38 is the new 18.

Potty
07-01-2013, 23:49
Rus is quite right; 100 or more years ago I'd say your average 18 year old was equivalent in maturity to your average 38 year old today. 38 is the new 18.

Yeah. Because at 30 you have no teeth and nobody will want you.

yakspeare
08-01-2013, 02:42
You might not have been at 18 Potty. I think the same is true for the vast majority of 18 year olds today. They're mostly spoiled and pampered; little is expected of them and, therefore, they are capable of little.

But that's today. Rus is quite right; 100 or more years ago I'd say your average 18 year old was equivalent in maturity to your average 38 year old today. 38 is the new 18.

I do concede Rus' point there too.My grandparents got married at 20 after knowing each other less than 6 months and my parents also got married at 20 and knew each other for less than 6 months beforehand. Those marriages lasted. But I tried the same thing, brought up in the same values, and mine was a disaster that ended after 5 years. My parents told me that if you marry later you are often to se in your own ways and it is much harder to adapt as a couple. but I also recall the girl I got 'engaed' to at 17 and it could have been, if there was family endorsement, a marriage. It probably wouldn't have lasted a year. On one level I admired the muslim country I live in with its focus on family and they marry young and divorce is a big no-no. It often all works out. but i am also mindful of the sheer amount of inifidelity here and also in Russia-that once a man is secured in marriage it is time to play outside it, with the expectation the woman won't leave him. I never saw ssuch rampant cheating on a spouse as i did in russia nor had i encountered the attitude of many women that it is considered normal and that they just don't want to know about it or the man is restricted to not talk about the wives to the mistress as a ground rule for this game of play.

rusmeister
08-01-2013, 05:00
Yeah. Because at 30 you have no teeth and nobody will want you.
No. It's entirely the issue of maturity and a simple matter of training people to NOT mature, by keeping them in a strange and artificial institution for years called a "school", that actually teaches very little, as its design is to produce a factory product, a docile consumer that will not threaten the plutocracy, as well as an instrument called "the media", that blares the same bland ideas and continues to untrain people in the actual use of their minds. Solzhenitsyn said it about the media pretty well in his address to Harvard (1977, I believe). Too bad he didn't know enough then about the role of our schools in accomplishing the decay of the West.


I do concede Rus' point there too.My grandparents got married at 20 after knowing each other less than 6 months and my parents also got married at 20 and knew each other for less than 6 months beforehand. Those marriages lasted. But I tried the same thing, brought up in the same values, and mine was a disaster that ended after 5 years. My parents told me that if you marry later you are often to se in your own ways and it is much harder to adapt as a couple. but I also recall the girl I got 'engaed' to at 17 and it could have been, if there was family endorsement, a marriage. It probably wouldn't have lasted a year. On one level I admired the muslim country I live in with its focus on family and they marry young and divorce is a big no-no. It often all works out. but i am also mindful of the sheer amount of inifidelity here and also in Russia-that once a man is secured in marriage it is time to play outside it, with the expectation the woman won't leave him. I never saw ssuch rampant cheating on a spouse as i did in russia nor had i encountered the attitude of many women that it is considered normal and that they just don't want to know about it or the man is restricted to not talk about the wives to the mistress as a ground rule for this game of play.

Thanks, Yak.
I concede that in the circle you found yourself in, you saw that sort of attitude toward marriage. I can only say that that attitude is FAR less prevalent among everyone I know; I can't think of anyone at all remaining in a relationship and tolerating infidelity. If it is discovered, the couple divorces.

Funny that we say "couple"; I really think we will be seeing a push to expand the idea of marriage and sexual relationships to include multiple "partners". The term "open relationship" is now widely used among the so-called liberal intelligentsia, being neither particularly liberal nor especially intelligent. We take the traditional idea for granted until its denial is made socially tolerable; then we can't take ANYTHING for granted. Chaos and anarchy become the rule of the day instead of the law and order generated by the rule of the traditional monogamous family.

Potty
08-01-2013, 09:06
Oh god. I was not talking about your brothers, or parents, or anyone else. I was talking about myself. What worked for them could not work for me. And I am happy where I am now, started a family life as a "spinster" if you want. Only it could be better. A bit. If we stayed friends a bit longer had some stuff sorted out before marriage.

Potty
08-01-2013, 09:39
Why is this "marriage lasts" the basic criteria of success? I know a lot of men with "lasted marriage " who look at women as a hungry dog. And they stay together with their wives for god knows what reasons. If you suffer in marriage for years it can't be a success. It is something else. And I don't get why you rus make up even more limits for people (age, etc) if it is very difficult to make a happy family even without them. And it has always been difficult, as humans are humans and not perfect.

Potty
08-01-2013, 09:46
In short, as I understand Jas was right. Again ))) most marriages are forced.

Ghostly Presence
08-01-2013, 15:16
You might not have been at 18 Potty. I think the same is true for the vast majority of 18 year olds today. They're mostly spoiled and pampered; little is expected of them and, therefore, they are capable of little.

But that's today. Rus is quite right; 100 or more years ago I'd say your average 18 year old was equivalent in maturity to your average 38 year old today. 38 is the new 18.

One has to remember that about a 100 years ago not that many men lived past 40. Besides, people did not have to train for years to become successful in their careers - if one was born a peasant, chances are one would remain a peasant till the end of his short life and if one was born into aristocracy, then he most likely would not have to worry about earning his keep by becoming a professional in some occupation.

Nowadays we have to study for years and then acquire experience for years to be marketable in this extremely competetive global labour market. Keeping a family is not only expensive these days but is also very demanding in terms of time that family matters consume. Naturally in our days people tend to marry later because they feel that they need to have a career and build a certain foundation for a future family before they get married. Whether it's good or bad - I will leave it to Rusmeister to brood on that, but it is the reality of the modern age and there is no escaping it.

Jack17
08-01-2013, 18:55
Besides, people did not have to train for years to become successful in their careers -

That simply is not true. Craftsmen and various members of guilds had very long and arduous apprenticeships WHICH BECAN AT A VERY EARLY AGE - maybe at 8 or 9 years old.

Whether butcher, baker, candlestick maker or chef, children began long arduous days of essentially slave labor in kitchens and shops all over Europe. They began young yes, because most died young; but this is exactly my point - 38 is the new 18. Even a hundred years ago, by the time a person was 18, they already knew 10 years of grueling labor. That kind of experience makes a man or woman out of you, whether you like it or not.

Another example would be the Royal Navy or US Navy of say 200 years ago. Ensigns were young boys of maybe 12 or 13, not young men of 22 or 23 as they are today. And believe me, life at sea on a sailing ship was no picnic.

yakspeare
08-01-2013, 19:10
That simply is not true. Craftsmen and various members of guilds had very long and arduous apprenticeships WHICH BECAN AT A VERY EARLY AGE - maybe at 8 or 9 years old.

Whether butcher, baker, candlestick maker or chef, children began long arduous days of essentially slave labor in kitchens and shops all over Europe.
They began young yes, because most died young; but this is exactly my point - 38 is the new 18. Even a hundred years ago, by the time a person was 18, they already knew 10 years of grueling labor. That kind of experience makes a man or woman out of you, whether you like it or not.

all very true BUT laws no longer allow people to work so young. Earliest age you can start work in Australia is 14 and 9 months and that is after school work with you not being able to leave school to 16. So add years of an apprenticeship on to that puts you at around 20 at the start of your career. For university, professions, the minim is 17 to finish schooling and 3 years of university for more basic degrees so also 20. This doesn't mean you can support a family though and these are the minimum times to do it in-more like 22 or 23.

rusmeister
13-01-2013, 16:34
My apologies for the delay; I wasn't ignoring your comments; I've had a rough week.


Oh god. I was not talking about your brothers, or parents, or anyone else. I was talking about myself. What worked for them could not work for me. And I am happy where I am now, started a family life as a "spinster" if you want. Only it could be better. A bit. If we stayed friends a bit longer had some stuff sorted out before marriage.

Again, it "worked" for everybody for millennia. Your understanding of things suggests that you are an exception to the human race, that people of our time have become unable to jake things work, and I think there's truth in that, but it springs from not knowing how to make it work - and a possible lack of desire to make it work, rather than an intrinsic inability. It's like not being able to drive a car - but not because you lack arms, legs and eyes, but merely because you haven't learned how.

This is our problem today. Most of us get married having no idea how to prevent divorce; they merely hope it doesn't happen to them. And then it does, because they had no idea how to prevent it.


Why is this "marriage lasts" the basic criteria of success? I know a lot of men with "lasted marriage " who look at women as a hungry dog. And they stay together with their wives for god knows what reasons. If you suffer in marriage for years it can't be a success. It is something else. And I don't get why you rus make up even more limits for people (age, etc) if it is very difficult to make a happy family even without them. And it has always been difficult, as humans are humans and not perfect.

The criteria of "success" as I would speak about success is in learning to love your spouse after having learned how to hate him or her after having first loved them. That is the goal of marriage. That is what we ought to prepare and strive for, to know that all of the issues about differences discovered are natural and normal. When you do that, you don't suffer, period. You find happiness and satisfaction in what you have. The trouble, again, is that people have entered the marriage not knowing how to properly understand it in the first place, and we have been untaught by a minority of people who control the schooling and the media and persistently teach us to think in a way diametrically opposed to how we need to see things in order to hold our marriage together.
Since I start from the proposition that all men are sinners, I am aware that achieving genuine happiness is really hard. And divorce, generally speaking, is not the way to do it. It is not an escape hatch. It is a guillotine, that kills the family that will not determine to struggle to save itself. That happiness can only be achieved by struggling through our differences and learning to love eavh other anyway. And nothing that I see helps to do that as well as the Christian world view (though I concede that all ofbthe major world religions that have survived for millennia have ways of helping keep marriages together. And I think religion essential because it provides a definite world view, that sees each of us as a divine creation. If your spouse is just a highly developed ape, why in the hell should I put up with him or her when the going gets tough?


In short, as I understand Jas was right. Again ))) most marriages are forced.

Again, as we are forced to eat, breathe, sleep, and earn a living.
We are so ungrateful, even when we have two parents who raise us, wipe our butts, maybe help us into or through college, and stay together - and we very much WANT them to stay together and work out their differences - but we want "freedom" for ourselves. Even though that "freedom" means anarchy and loneliness. And we don't want to do for our children what our parents did for us - or at least, what we WANTED them to do for us.

rusmeister
13-01-2013, 16:42
Again, my apologies - I'm just catching up on this thread.


all very true BUT laws no longer allow people to work so young. Earliest age you can start work in Australia is 14 and 9 months and that is after school work with you not being able to leave school to 16. So add years of an apprenticeship on to that puts you at around 20 at the start of your career. For university, professions, the minim is 17 to finish schooling and 3 years of university for more basic degrees so also 20. This doesn't mean you can support a family though and these are the minimum times to do it in-more like 22 or 23.

I would say that this is MY point Yak, that big government and big business have worked together to limit the freedom of man and create the juvenile adult - a tremendous boon for Hudge and Gudge. Laws which prevent extreme expoitation also prevent normal development; they prevent not only abuse (bad use) but good use as well.

rusmeister
13-01-2013, 18:45
One has to remember that about a 100 years ago not that many men lived past 40. Besides, people did not have to train for years to become successful in their careers - if one was born a peasant, chances are one would remain a peasant till the end of his short life and if one was born into aristocracy, then he most likely would not have to worry about earning his keep by becoming a professional in some occupation.

Nowadays we have to study for years and then acquire experience for years to be marketable in this extremely competetive global labour market. Keeping a family is not only expensive these days but is also very demanding in terms of time that family matters consume. Naturally in our days people tend to marry later because they feel that they need to have a career and build a certain foundation for a future family before they get married. Whether it's good or bad - I will leave it to Rusmeister to brood on that, but it is the reality of the modern age and there is no escaping it.

Jack beat me to the punch on craftsmen and guilds.

I'll try to remember what life spans commonly were at various times throughout history; I generally find people with modern educations to be horribly informed and taught all kinds of exaggerations. The present is so full of awful things that they HAVE to paint the past as pitch-dark and tell themselves what fine fellows they are, living in the 21st century.

The person who studies for years in school (12 or 13 years asca professional student) is generally qualified or little better than McDonald's or Wal-Mart.

The purpose of a global labor market is to get all labor out of the cheapest and most desperate peoples, and for a wealthy few to impoverish all the rest.

It is easy to speak of the reality of our time (if we understand it correctly) - it is quite another thing to think on how it became that way and how it might have been different. To speak of what is NOW is merely to open your eyes and see. It is far more difficult to understand, and understand correctly, and that requires correct knowledge of the past and the ability to interpret correctly.

Jack17
13-01-2013, 21:43
The purpose of a global labor market is to get all labor out of the cheapest and most desperate peoples, and for a wealthy few to impoverish all the rest.

Who'd-a-thought that Rus and RL were of one mind? :ok:

yakspeare
13-01-2013, 21:51
Who'd-a-thought that Rus and RL were of one mind? :ok:

Beat me to it. If Chesterton only knew that Rus was dabbling in the works of Karl Marx...

AdamRus
13-01-2013, 22:48
I think it makes life much more complicated. Any bonuses? Am dessperately seeking for motivation...
The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State (by Friedrich Engels) gives the answer :-)

rusmeister
13-01-2013, 22:50
Who'd-a-thought that Rus and RL were of one mind? :ok:


Beat me to it. If Chesterton only knew that Rus was dabbling in the works of Karl Marx...

You guys seem to be laboring under a delusion that suggests that everything Marx wrote was 100% false. But it couldn't have been. There MUST be some truth in Arx for anyone to follow him for more than a few days or a few years. Good solid lies have heavy doses of truth, and it is those truths which prop them up. And it is those truths on which wildly different people may converge. Even the three of us.

Ghostly Presence
14-01-2013, 10:30
You guys seem to be laboring under a delusion that suggests that everything Marx wrote was 100% false. But it couldn't have been. There MUST be some truth in Arx for anyone to follow him for more than a few days or a few years. Good solid lies have heavy doses of truth, and it is those truths which prop them up. And it is those truths on which wildly different people may converge. Even the three of us.

I agree with you regarding Marx, Rusmeister, especially concerning capitalists' thirst for cheap labor. Not only Marx but the founding father of the capitalist theory Adam Smith wrote the same in his "Wealth of Nations".

Michael28
14-01-2013, 12:18
I asking myself the same thing :P:P
So far no answer....

Periwinkle
14-01-2013, 18:02
Ok, so the OP has been married and she is asking why people get married. I think she can answer her own question, as I assume She had a reason. Maybe it is buried somewhere in the thread?
So Kassandra, why did you get married? To who? Why divorced? That will likely be more interesting than philosophical speculation.

rusmeister
14-01-2013, 18:21
Ok, so the OP has been married and she is asking why people get married. I think she can answer her own question, as I assume She had a reason. Maybe it is buried somewhere in the thread?
So Kassandra, why did you get married? To who? Why divorced? That will likely be more interesting than philosophical speculation.

The question of "why people get married" is precisely a philosophical question. It is not "Why did I get married?" or "Why does any particular person get married?" - individual circumstances may vary greatly. It is about what we have in common; what is the same about us, and that is entirely philosophical.
Maybe you're not interested in why people in general get married, I think several answers have been offered, some better thought -out than others. Maybe you're not interested in the thread, then. Dunno. You can start a thread "Why did YOU get married?", if you like. I would find that a lot less interesting. I'm more interested in what makes us human, and less in what makes us different.

Jack17
14-01-2013, 19:13
I'm with Periwinkle; I'd rather hear Kassandra's personal story than Rusmeister's tedious theology.

rusmeister
14-01-2013, 21:57
I'm with Periwinkle; I'd rather hear Kassandra's personal story than Rusmeister's tedious theology.

If you're so desperate to not hear me, Jack, there's always the "ignore list".

For someone who claims to be upwards of sixty there seems to be an awful lot of thoughts that are many decades younger. I'm really coming to doubt some of your prior claims on the basis of inconsistency.

Jack17
14-01-2013, 22:19
If you're so desperate to not hear me, Jack, there's always the "ignore list".

Oh no, looks like I've been sent to the corner.


For someone who claims to be upwards of sixty"

Please, I haven't reached the big 6 "O" yet; don't say that, you'll scare all the girls away.


I'm really coming to doubt some of your prior claims on the basis of inconsistency.

Why do you assume I would care? Rus, you confirm my view that practacing adherents to any organized religion all suffer from Egomania. You love to pontificate and meet out condemnations all day. Well, why not; I'm sure this is the only place you can do it. Enjoy

MatthieuBeckers
15-01-2013, 18:45
You get married because you love the person and are convinced to spend all your life with him/her. Otherwise, why to do so?

You marry when you can't picture your life without the person you love, when all you want is to be with him/her. Raising children, buy house, go on holidays, support each other, ...

or you marry when you don't want to end up alone. ==> sad :-(

shurale
16-01-2013, 20:10
I think it makes life much more complicated. Any bonuses? Am dessperately seeking for motivation...

Š›ŃŽŠ“Šø Š²ŃŃ‚Ń€ŠµŃ‡Š°ŃŽŃ‚ся - Š’ŠµŃŃ‘Š»Ń‹Šµ Š ŠµŠ±ŃŃ‚Š° - 1967-2007-With lyrics - YouTube

w.meijerink
19-01-2013, 01:29
I think it makes life much more complicated. Any bonuses? Am dessperately seeking for motivation...
Simple because all the woman tell us " no sex before marriage"

Potty
19-01-2013, 01:55
Simple because all the woman tell us " no sex before marriage"

Where are you from?

w.meijerink
19-01-2013, 01:57
Where are you from?
I'm from my mum, why?
:D:D:D

Potty
19-01-2013, 01:59
I'm from my mum, why?
:D:D:D

For how long have you been from your mom?

w.meijerink
19-01-2013, 02:25
For how long have you been from your mom?
Not so long a guess 2 hours is the max, but why you ask do i miss something?:eh:

robertmf
19-01-2013, 02:50
For how long have you been from your mom?

:D Dutch rhymes with dense :Loco:

Ask him if he loves *OlgaT*

:fridaysign: