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Sheepy
14-01-2004, 09:23
After reading the post about Immigration Control at Heathrow I'm inspired to tell you about an incident which happened to me on a double decker bus in London.

Having been away from the UK for almost 8 years now it seems to me that I have forgotten some basic transport etiqette.

When I was in London last summer a big red bus pulled up and I hopped on as I would normally do in Moscow. I didn't get on at the front as I had no need to get a ticket from the driver (I already had an unlimited pass) so got in throught the middle doors. However, within seconds of getting on I was shouted off the bus and told rather rudely (no please or thank you ) to enter the front doors by a foreign conductor who's English was so poorly that I simply could not understand what he was saying. I asked him to calm down, to kindly stop screaming and to repeat what he had said. This got him all the more frustrated and annoyed and practically threw me off the bus. I had never been so humiliated in all my life. He made out that I was a stupid foreigner who did not understand English or British culture.

Is this Britian 2004?

logoff
14-01-2004, 09:29
... funny

Midas
14-01-2004, 09:54
I came to visit Britain this winter after not having been there for 6 years. And I also noticed that people became more rude. Especially those working in public services.

Polia Ivanova
14-01-2004, 12:36
that is why I enjoy living in the North

I really felt uncomfortable visiting Moscow last year - lost all survival skills.

Some time ago I was in London and went into a pub to buy a drink. It was very busy place in the centre of London. It was ABSOLUTELY packed. So I squeezed myself gently to the bar and ordered something, assuming that like in Yorkshire people would let me buy a drink at the bar (where else can you buy it?). The poshest London accent near me said - "Do you mind, bitch? - I am standing here." - by ups and downs one could make a linguistic recording - it was so damn right English.

and a Pakistani taxi driver in Bradford wished me a very Merry Christmas.

The conclusion - England is a country of contrasts

moscowmail
14-01-2004, 12:40
I personally hate the place....

But hey, who am I :)

DJ Biscuit
14-01-2004, 12:56
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sheepy
who's English was so poorly that I simply could not understand what he was saying. [/QUOTE

HIS English was so poorly eh?

Mmm.

:D

Anouk
14-01-2004, 13:19
Sheepy you know the British have a herd mentality, any display of individuality (like getting on through the middles doors) will be punished. :)

Most Londoners in the above situations would be just as rude back, telling the bloke to f**k off.

I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with Britain.......there's lots to be proud of..........but if I had to live there for the rest of my life :(

Shaun
14-01-2004, 13:24
in my experience bus/train conductors are usually grumpy ******, with the odd wonderful exception, regargless of race, gender, sexuality, number of fingers etc etc.

The Connex train conductors on my old school route from Lewes to Brighton were some of the most miserable specimins of humanity I've ever come across. Some of them were fairly incoherent in English too, despite conforming to some on this board's narrow definition of what constitutes being 'British'...

Must be something to do with the depressing nature of the job?

Polia Ivanova
14-01-2004, 13:33
Originally posted by Shaun
Some of them were fairly incoherent in English too, despite conforming to some on this board's narrow definition of what constitutes being 'British'...



actually one of the naturalisation conditions is "sound knowledge of English" but nobody really checks

DJ Biscuit
14-01-2004, 13:36
Narrow definition is right!!! I wonder how deeply they've looked into their own origins and command of the language?

Lewes you say? Best Bonfire Night in the country!

Shaun
14-01-2004, 13:38
Certainly is! Although a little un-PC these days, a great night out. Despite moving away years ago, this year was the first time I've missed it since I was 10...

aaaahhh

DJ Biscuit
14-01-2004, 13:49
Originally posted by Polia Ivanova
actually one of the naturalisation conditions is "sound knowledge of English" but nobody really checks

Having read a lot of threads by 'English' people on this board, regarding command of, spelling of and vocabulary of the language I doubt they would pass! :D Despite their moaning about immigrants I wonder would they do any better in this test? ;)

Braders
14-01-2004, 14:36
When i first moved to Moscow i always looked forward to a 10 day holiday in the UK sometimes once, sometimes twice a Year.

Over the Years this euphoria of going back to my homeland has deteriorated, i enjoy the nosh of course! and seeing the family, but that's about it.

The Pub culture over there is grim, areas where i live all these cocky young twits want a pop at you before you finish your first pint, eyeballing you from across the room, some still probably at school :p

The weather is shxxe, ok Moscow is cold, but Jesus can it rain in Manchester.

All that falls onto your doormat are brown enevelopes.

Even the TV channels are crap all 5! of them, ok so i do like a bit of Easties now and again ;)

If you are young free and single and offer to buy a good lookin vixen a drink, you are usually told to pixx off :p

Give me a week and i'll find something good to say about the UK.

Anouk
14-01-2004, 14:54
Originally posted by Braders


If you are young free and single and offer to buy a good lookin vixen a drink, you are usually told to pixx off :p

You reminded me of something else I don't like - the reputation of British women at home and abroad. Speaking from my own experience mention your English and people immediately presume you are a drunken sl*t - the type that pour themselves into a dress, two sizes too small, drink themselves into oblivion, and pass out/have a fight on a night out in Birmingham or Rhodes (Look we're just like the independent women in Sex & The City :rolleyes: ). :p

legspreader
14-01-2004, 14:54
Originally posted by Braders
[By
Give me a week and i'll find something good to say about the UK. [/B]

I've got one
the stability of the currency ;)

DJ Biscuit
14-01-2004, 14:56
Originally posted by Braders


Give me a week and i'll find something good to say about the UK.

I can think of something, you're not there! ;) :D :D

Sorry..;)

Braders
14-01-2004, 15:09
legspreader very true, catch 22 though as i have savings in Sterling in the UK, but get paid in Dollars over here :p

DJ... Sarcasm is another thing i miss from the UK, the Brits are legendary at it :D

DJ Biscuit
14-01-2004, 15:16
What sarcasm? Simple statement of what is good about Britain. Humorous yes, but not sarcastic.

Ned Kelly
14-01-2004, 15:20
The British press is the best in the world.

Braders
14-01-2004, 15:22
That comment was positively dripping with 'Sarky', which i don't mind, i love sarcasm, the Brits mix humour with sarcasm to great effect, many Brits agree over here you can have a great conversation with a Russian but they just don't get our humour ;)

DJ Biscuit
14-01-2004, 15:51
Are we now making a list of what's good about Britain to counteract those who think it's cool to say 'I hate it'? I can add a lot of critisisms of Britain (and say a lot of good things too) but it's rather childish and not exactly erudite to say 'I don't live there 'cos I hate it'.

geordie
14-01-2004, 16:32
Britain is a wonderful place. It is a nation of shopkeepers, aristocrats, farmers and animal lovers, all at the same time. It has the 'mother of all parliaments', its inhabitants enjoy 'free speech' and the right to vote in open elections and it is so confident that it doesn't need a written constitution. Its cities are havens for the young, they pulsate to the music of the world, and though the skies may be grey for much of the year the streets are coloured by its people who now talk about 'raving' just as much as they talk about the weather. The cities 'rock'.

Benjamin Zephaniah

kilroy silk
14-01-2004, 16:53
I would like to thank some of the people on here who have shown the same understanding that I am being persecuted for now. To those that believe our Britain is being invaded by immigrants who are dilluting our culture and language I agree wholeheartidly.

Those of you who are writing that a multi cultural country is better, you will see I and others on here, Moscow Mail, Braders and others will be proved right.

Polia Ivanova
14-01-2004, 16:53
Originally posted by geordie
Britain is a wonderful place. It is a nation of shopkeepers, aristocrats, farmers and animal lovers, all at the same time. It has the 'mother of all parliaments', its inhabitants enjoy 'free speech' and the
and it is so confident that it doesn't need a written constitution. Its cities are havens for the young, they pulsate to the music of the world, and though the skies may be grey for much of the year the streets are coloured by its people who now talk about 'raving' just as much as they talk about the weather. The cities 'rock'.

Benjamin Zephaniah
out of date

its inhabitants enjoy 'free speech' - TV man Kilroy said something about Arabs being terrorists, limb amputators and women suppressors and was kicked out of his BBC show. Many Brits agree with him but Muslim lobby here stronger than freedom of speach

right to vote in open elections - would something change with war in Iraq if Tories were in charge - do not think so

animal lovers - will kill non vegetarian with cricket bites.

cities rock - especially London on May Day

DJ Biscuit
14-01-2004, 16:57
Well said Geordie, Cool Britannia!

moscowmail
14-01-2004, 17:00
Hmm, I still hate the place, give me Moscow any day.....

Since Maggies gone :( :( the country has not only gone tothe dogs but turned into a rabid creature of undefined parentage :)

DJ Biscuit
14-01-2004, 17:01
OMG!


(BTW, Britain as you rightly say is a country, but FYI Moscow is a city, and do you prefer it here because it's less corrupt, rabid, etc than over there? Looks like Thatchers Britain or something?)

lyndsay
14-01-2004, 17:07
There is no longer any 'Brit' remaining in the land of the 'British'..

Every bastard spaun from a delinquent country has got a BRITISH passport...


Yes, I am rascist........... shame my country isn't... and I hate turban touting bastards greeting me at the airport and questioning me....

Exiled..indefinitely!!

Shaun
14-01-2004, 17:14
And how exactly would you define British?

And the Kilroy thing is nothing to do with freedom of speech - its about the fact that someone who is supposed to present a programme about controversial issues on a state-funded TV channel and thus be a neutral facilitator of discussion was clearly showing that he was nothing of the sort (as of course anyone who'd watched the nasty little f****r's show would be all too aware). Nothing to do with freedom of speech - Mail publishes stuff like that on virtually a daily basis.

I'm really surprised at the attitudes on here actually. I know a lot of it is jokey etc etc... but some of it isnt. Sad, really. And I never thought I'd be someone to get serious...

geordie
14-01-2004, 17:23
Lyndsay you are a biggot.

I find your rantings quite disturbing...you obviously have huge problem with society. The second world war was fought to put a stop to fascists like you.

Even if your crack is meant to be tongue-in-cheek there's no place for it here or anywhere

DJ Biscuit
14-01-2004, 17:25
Yes, I am a little dissapointed at the blinkered and frankly uneducated attitudes on here at times. At one point I thought that many of the posters were intelligent people holding responsible jobs with interesting worldly and experienced ideas. I was, sadly wrong.

Polia Ivanova
14-01-2004, 17:26
Originally posted by Shaun


And the Kilroy thing is nothing to do with freedom of speech - its about the fact that someone who is supposed to present a programme about controversial issues on a state-funded TV channel and thus be a neutral facilitator of discussion was clearly showing that he was nothing of the sort (as of course anyone who'd watched the nasty little f****r's show

They are all non neutral. Remember watching "discussional" program whether we should ban fox hunting. The TV presenter gave plenty of time for those who want the ban and didn't allow the ones against it to say a word.

Ned Kelly
14-01-2004, 17:34
that's journalistic bias not state conspiracy.

geofizz56
14-01-2004, 17:39
Can this American say that I love London without getting my head bitten off? Even on a cold raw day in February, it is one of the world's greatest cities to just wander around in. I always look forward to business trips there, and try to tag a weekend on just for fun.

I have never found Londoners in general to be rude - rather, I've had lots of great conversations with total strangers. There are exceptions of course, but overall they're a lot friendlier than, say, New Yorkers.

Random
14-01-2004, 17:45
The BBC is against Fox Hunting always has been, the fact that those pro hunting gathered the biggest demonstration ever in London doesn't feature on thier map !

As for Mr Kilroy - my view is I dont agree with what he said but I will defend his right to say it.

How many of the expat comunity go to St.Georges day drinks or the Traf Ball or any of the Scottish events - Burns night is approaching - I wonder what the reaction would be if they banned it as it was racist (which face it is - it only for Scots ! :D )

DJ Biscuit
14-01-2004, 18:11
Since then of course the biggest demonstartion was against the war in Iraq, the government didn't take any notice of that either. If an issue gets a big demonstration does that make it a just cause? I mean a lot of ppl were for fox hunting-so don't ban it, a lot of ppl were against the war-so don't go to war, or does it just show that activists rally behind their cause when needed and thank god in Britain one has the right to do that.

Polia Ivanova
14-01-2004, 18:29
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
Since then of course the biggest demonstartion was against the war in Iraq, the government didn't take any notice of that either. If an issue gets a big demonstration does that make it a just cause? I mean a lot of ppl were for fox hunting-so don't ban it, a lot of ppl were against the war-so don't go to war, or does it just show that activists rally behind their cause when needed and thank god in Britain one has the right to do that.

Them Swiss – they make referendums almost every week why Brits cannot do the same. Here people gets a lot of convincing bullsh*t during election and then government follows undisclosed (during elections) agenda.

It is not majority minority issue. Even if minority is against the ban and pro war in Iraq – they are still taxpayers (don’t think animal right activists are – they tend to demonstrate while I work). How many times here I heard “ban it” – a horse fell and broke something during races – ban horse racing, a boxer got serious injury during match – ban boxing, and what happened to “baa baa black sheep”? Why people here cannot find compromise in these questions? Don’t ban but licence, set rules and limits and tax the fox hunting for instance.

logoff
14-01-2004, 19:15
Well, I am not British, but I really love London and any time I could - I try to go there. Sometimes it is funny confusions with American English and British English.

Another thing is very different – wait stuff – there are very mean comparing to Americans, but I figure out –that it because they have tips already included in the check.

logoff
14-01-2004, 19:21
Once a Pakistani cab driver in NY asked me if I Mexican is? I didn't know what to do: cry or laugh. I am having dark blond hair and blue eyes, and for sure not look like a Mexican. I think someone can bump into stupid individual just anywhere.

sebastian_dgower
14-01-2004, 19:37
The United Kingdom sucks, its cold, its wet and the majority of the people are miserable....or maybe its just me!

DJ Biscuit
14-01-2004, 19:39
Originally posted by sebastian_dgower
The United Kingdom sucks, its cold, its wet and the majority of the people are miserable....or maybe its just me!

Just you? You mean you are cold, wet and miserable? ;)

sebastian_dgower
14-01-2004, 19:45
Me? Wet miserable and cold...after so long in this godforsaken counry - a distinct possibilty.....

Sebastian

DJ Biscuit
14-01-2004, 19:47
Which godforsaken country are you talking about? There seem to be a few if you read ppls opinions on this site! ;)

Sheepy
14-01-2004, 20:24
Going back to my original posting...the thing that annoys me is that if you're an ethnic minority working in Britain in the civil service sector and you are rude to customers then no WHITE Brit is going to challenge it for fear of being accused of racially attacking the person in question.

Some people use their colour as an excuse to do as they please.

I have nothing against ethnic minorities...I myself am Welsh. And interestingly enough the Welsh, like the Irish, have also faced a lot of racial abuse....but that's totally acceptable because we're WHITE!

And before we start an Welsh VS English Vs Irish or Scottish argument I'd just like to add that like lots of cultures the people who hate that culture the most are the people from that very culture themselves (see previous postings). Some races are their own worst enemies!

Sheepy
14-01-2004, 20:36
A RUSSIAN once told me the following anecdote. It will probably touch a nerve but it just makes the point that the people who are least likely to help you are you're own.

Tyr reading by putting in place of Russians you're own race.


A certain man is shown around hell and comes to a room which has two cauldrons placed in the centre. These two cauldrons are identical except that one has a lid and the other not. Both pots have people inside who are being boiled alive. On closer inspection the man notices that one pot contains Russian nationals only and the other contains people of other nations. The man asks the Devil why is it so that the pot which doen't have a lid is full of Russians. "That's easy" replies the Devil...."you see the one that contains Russians doesn't need a lid 'cos when one tries to escape the others all drag him back down again!"


Smile.

J.D.
15-01-2004, 08:26
I would never have thought of British as having a herd mentality. Automatically jumping into a que, in a very orderly fashion, whenever they see one forming is more of a trained trait. Jumping up from your seat and racing, yes llterally racing against your fellow countrymen, for the door as soon as the first person gets up and starts walking toward the door no matter that its still five minutes before the elecktrishka stop, now that's a herd mentality.
People bumping into you without even knowing they did it no matter how few people are in the room, not exactly herd mentality but definitely cattle like.

Well as you can see some aspects here do get on my nerves but I have to admit that when I go back to the US, while people do seem to be more polite than they are here they are not as polite as I seemed to remember.

lochnessmonster
21-01-2004, 17:33
Originally posted by Sheepy
Going back to my original posting...the thing that annoys me is that if you're an ethnic minority working in Britain in the civil service sector and you are rude to customers then no WHITE Brit is going to challenge it for fear of being accused of racially attacking the person in question.

Some people use their colour as an excuse to do as they please.

I have nothing against ethnic minorities...I myself am Welsh. And interestingly enough the Welsh, like the Irish, have also faced a lot of racial abuse....but that's totally acceptable because we're WHITE!

And before we start an Welsh VS English Vs Irish or Scottish argument I'd just like to add that like lots of cultures the people who hate that culture the most are the people from that very culture themselves (see previous postings). Some races are their own worst enemies!

Oh, I love it when people say stuff like, 'oh I'm not rascist, some of my best friends are black/India...BUT', or 'I'm not homophobic, some of my best friends are gay...BUT'.
Just make your point and let us come to our own conclusions, thank you very much

feedme666
23-01-2004, 12:15
Yes, Sheepy's clearly a fascist, which I suppose is why he came to Moscow. Do any of you know him personally? The bus story is either a complete fabrication or suppresses certain important details. Perhaps the conductor felt threatened by the fact that Sheepy had just beaten a black child senseless on the pavement before getting on the bus. Or perhaps it was his neo-nazi outfit and shaved head.

trackhat
24-01-2004, 05:24
Sheepy is a Welsh woman, so if anything she would probably resemble a black person more than a skinhead from being covered in coal soot. Feedme666, you have no right to criticize fascists because you are a socialist. Fascists want to strip people (I know, sexy) of their personal and civil liberties, but at least they have a game plan. Fascists sort of want the majority, however defined, to enjoy the bourgeouis niceties that most socialists seem to deplore, as long as they get to beat the crap out of dark people. Socialists are worse: they say they want what's best for the people, then sneer incredulously when the people prefer sugar cereal and Britney Spears.

trackhat
24-01-2004, 05:28
Whales really face discrimination, especially White Whales. How would you like some old captain to describe you as having 'a hump like a snowhill?'

DaveUKagain
24-01-2004, 21:22
Originally posted by feedme666
Yes, Sheepy's clearly a fascist, which I suppose is why he came to Moscow. Do any of you know him personally? The bus story is either a complete fabrication or suppresses certain important details. Perhaps the conductor felt threatened by the fact that Sheepy had just beaten a black child senseless on the pavement before getting on the bus. Or perhaps it was his neo-nazi outfit and shaved head.

Yep, Sheepy`s Welsh. A nice lady. I`m from Manchester, actually English, in other words, and my ex was Russian. I`m the least racist person I know, mix with the Russian community here (nice people) and will talk to anyone, regardless of skin colour, religion, accent.

Whilst most people would like to think that England looks like this.....

DaveUKagain
24-01-2004, 21:23
Five miles from here it looks like THIS on occaision.

DaveUKagain
24-01-2004, 21:29
Not a pretty sight. Racially motivated riot.

Now, leaving aside socialism, fascism and any party politics, if I HAD kids and lived in any town more than 5km to the North or East here, there`s a strong possibility that my kids would be going to school and learning Urdu, Bengali, Gujurati or Hindi, as the areas I`m talking about are becoming predominantly "asian", by which I mean Indian or Pakistani. I`ve got utterly nothing whatsoever against Indian or Pakistani immigration, or immigration in general, but in some areas it is becoming the norm for entire areas to become - I don`t like to use the term - "ghettos" with zero integration. There are (occaisional) race riots, and it`s not always the Asian community who are the victims, but the actual agressors.

Leaving aside "ism`s", if we talk about problems instead, how has this happened and - are we happy with our children being taught a language which will be of zero use to them for political expediency ??

As an example, if the Moscow propiska system wasn`t in place....... what would happen then ?

Jet
24-01-2004, 21:29
trackhat, read again what u wrote, then laugh out loud at it

DaveUKagain
24-01-2004, 21:30
:D (Sorry, Jet - missed that one. ;-) )

OK, to finish up what I was saying - no right thinking person can possibly object to emigration based on skill or joining immediate family - but - at some point, a family comes over, invites THEIR family members over, who in turn invite THEIR family members over and before you know it you have a snowball effect.

Now, I don`t have much of a problem with that as I`d expect it if I moved elsewhere and would love to take MY family members with me. Fair enough. But the point is that if the people who come over have no possible REAL connection with England or English culture other than blood ties, don`t integrate, form town- wide communities which just serve themselves and then start putting pressure on local councils to force THEIR culture on the people who live in the area.......... something has gone seriously wrong. Unless you count England as being a country where Indian / Pakistani language groups is spoken in certain towns. Which it patently isn`t.

Yes, any decent country should be able to tolerate and accomodate people`s varying religions and beliefs, and will be all the better for it. However, it`s surely the task of the immigrant to integrate into his new country, more than the new country to accomodate to the immigrant ?

England differs. The mix of people in the Home Counties is totally different to that found in Oldham, Rochdale, Bradford, Barnsley, Leicester...... it`s a good job it differs, it`s "culturally diverse" and that`s great. Until you live in an area where arranged marriages are the norm, where speaking Urdu is the norm and where you can go out of your own front door and be racially abused for being white...... and it DOES happen, folks. So something HAS gone wrong in certain areas. Forget the accusations of racism or political bias or whatever, I could set you down a few KM from here and you`d have a hard point to argue against that simple fact.

Sheepy
24-01-2004, 23:26
As if "Fascist" is not bad enough....but....really....I DO object to being referrred to as "he".

trackhat
26-01-2004, 03:14
My girlfriend tells me that all girls want to be the 'he' on occasion.

gubbo
26-01-2004, 16:30
The worst thing that can be said about life in the UK is that it is mediocre and bland. And the society itself is dysfunctional. But after the Thatcher years, what can anyone expect.

The UK has been mismanaged for years. And the population, who are much too trusting, have been totally misled. But it's clear that things are turning around as far as public opinion is concerned, and the public school elite that lords it over the coutry have grown arrogant, and have, perhaps, taken the piss just once too often. And in case there is some confusion, I would say that British people are not inherently rascist. But the government are. If there's one thing I can't stand about the UK at the moment, it's the constant bombardment by the media about the fear of asylum seekers. What a load of old toss. I was back in the UK last month, and I saw virtually no ethinic diversity at all, unlike Germany where I now live which has races from all over. Great. I'm all for diversity. Round up the combat 18 lot (and New Labour while your at it) and ship them off to an island somewhere. I'd happily take twice the amount of Nigerians, or Slovaks, or Russians, or whoever.

My granparents were Irish, and my wife is Russian. What does that make my kid? The answer to that question is, I hope, "tolerant". Who gives a **** where anybody is from. As I discovered at the weekend, you can have more in common with someone from Buenos Aires than you can from Somerset.

There's only one race: the human race.

DJ Biscuit
26-01-2004, 16:34
At last someone who agrees with my post on this matter.

It is disturbing to hear some of the views on immigration here especially from Americans, short memories possibly?

DaveUKagain
26-01-2004, 18:59
Nail hit on the head. There I was in a training course today with several Irish folks, black ones, two Somalian immigrants, Indians, Pakistanis and everyone got along just FINE. Ain`t us. I don`t care WHO my neighbour is or what colour face he or she has, totally irrelevant. We all sat down and had a laugh and a joke and a coffee and- different colour ? Big deal.

Then the COUNCIL tell you that your kids have to learn an Asian language. Probably all the Asian kids in the school look at the white ones and think "What the hell are they learning this for ? " - political correctness gone MAD.

If everyone here was locked in a large room, 99% of all people would get along FINE. Total utter tolerance. But as soon as some loony council sticks it`s nose in, chaos ensues. And if their only defence is to terrorise poor bloody "asylum seekers" and stigmatise `em in the same way they do with single mothers, anyone from Liverpool, for example (sorry Len !! ;-)))) ) or anyone who doesn`t fit in with their narrow bigoted views of who "should be here" - to hell with the councils and politically correct government. People are good or bad independent of skin colour, religion or where they or their parents or grandparents were born ......... and whilst uncontrolled immigration IS a problem in some areas - it`s mainly the tiny minority whipping up senseless hatred.

Previous posts. I meant to say there IS a problem in some areas with lack of integration. But. You don`t get people to integrate by building them a community centre, giving them preferential housing loans, preferential jobs, and it only causes resentment. If you just put ANY immigrant and ANY UK born person in a room together and left `em, they`d discover they had much more in common that you`d imagine.

So for GOD`s sake let`s get integrating. There is not a lot of incentive to do so in a lot of areas.

trackhat
27-01-2004, 01:47
A-F**KING-MEN! They do the same crap in New York - the housing loans, the silly community centers that end up hosting the AA meetings, midnight basketball, etc. It's just a waste of cash. One thing is the great integrator in America: television. Within a generation of boob-tube-watching, the smarmiest rag-head will be eating apple pie, nodding his head to some rightist gimp from the Heritage Foundation and singing the gospel of guns, Jesus, and Gap khakis for the troops.

DaveUKagain
27-01-2004, 02:13
If you emigrate, you - well, I - expect to learn the language, the culture, and whilst keeping my own, integrate and be a guest in someone elses` land. I don`t go there to tell them what to do or make demands on `em. I have enough self respect and enough self autonomy to go there and be a guest, make the effort to get on and fit in and the only thing I expect is some respect back for my "differences" whilst I give out the same respect for theirs.

I don`t expect perferential treatment. I certainly don`t expect total repression, either. I`d just like to be able to live my own life whilst integrating - and let others live theirs.

But when a local council decides I`m somehow "vulnerable" and makes everyone around me learn MY language so I`ll fit in...... troubled times lay ahead......

trackhat
27-01-2004, 02:51
Hey, I'm happy enough if I can make some cash here and they don't steal my stuff... My thought on the council is that their kids will learn English, anyway... my great grandmother never learned proper English after coming to the US from Belarus.