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karaganda2007
07-11-2007, 12:41
I have a six-month multi-entry visa issued in July without any restrictions. I had been here for over 90 days, flew to Kazakhstan to visit friends and arrived back in Moscow this morning without any problem at passport control. This should indicate that the new law does not affect visas issued before Oct 17.

However, the US Embassy has been telling its citizens that the new law DOES apply retroactively. I was there this morning to have more pages put in my passport and the officer there told me that should check with the agency that did my visa about the new law. He said it might just be a case of border officials not knowing about the new law and I might have just been lucky.

Could someone please, please answer this question once and for all?????

Proper Bostonian
07-11-2007, 13:04
Unfortunately, the problem is NO ONE knows. Today:

1. Called US Embassy. Was told new law is retroactive to the 17th irrespective of what your visa says (my one yr. ME is good until June 2008). That means we have to leave by Jan.14 & can not return for 90 days.

2. My Russian husband called a press officer of the Migration Service who could only confirm there is a new law (DUH!). He did not know if it applied to previously issued visas & suggested calling the inviting organization. Don't know how he thinks they'll know if he doesn't and he works for the Federal Migration Service!

3. Called Vadim at Liga. He can not advise at this point. He says it is unclear, although he was verbally (unofficially) told by MID that it IS retroactive. However, as he said to me, MID is not the Migration Service and they have yet to clarify anything. He HOPES they'll be some clarification in the near future, but told me not to call back for at least 2 weeks.

4. Went to the Passport Desk in our region. They're closed Wednesdays.

Interesting question: As my husband said, it there is pratically zero chance of having trouble inside Russia given that my visa says I have the right to be here. There aren't any border guards roaming the streets of Moscow. Personally, I have never been stopped nor questioned about my documents. Theoretically, what could happen to me (or any of us) if I stay until the expiration of my visa? A fine departing Russia? How much could that be?

I know ignorance of the law isn't justification for breaking it, but if one has a visa granted by the government of Russia and simply stays through it's expiration, what recourse might they have?

Know this doesn't help a bit... All I know is January's coming up quickly.

Rob26
07-11-2007, 13:10
I know little on the subject but 1 possible problem could be that it would be hard to obtain another visa. I heard you can be blacklisted. Fine, if you only want to stay for a year though.

Proper Bostonian
07-11-2007, 13:13
Yes, but... what if you have received temporary residency in that time?

xSnoofovich
07-11-2007, 13:22
another great question is -

when does the year start?

i mean, is it a calander year?

or the dates on the ME visa?

Bels
07-11-2007, 13:27
Yes, but... what if you have received temporary residency in that time?

I just got confirmation of my temporary residency today. And my assumption is who cares about current visas. I am now on temporary residency terms now.

In other words the visa is now old hat. It took me seven months to get it, and it took a lot longer to prepare for it, but I got it in the end.

Champagne time for me :)

karaganda2007
07-11-2007, 13:42
Proper Bostonian -

So did my 90 days start Oct 17 - the day the new law went into effect - or July 30 - the day I entered Russia? I am totally confused now.

My visa agency just also confirmed to me that the law is retroactive.

Rustralian
07-11-2007, 13:47
I just got confirmation of my temporary residency today. And my assumption is who cares about current visas. I am now on temporary residency terms now.

In other words the visa is now old hat. It took me seven months to get it, and it took a lot longer to prepare for it, but I got it in the end.

Champagne time for me :)

:fireworks:

andymakesglasses
07-11-2007, 14:47
the company who arranged my visa for me told me about the rule change at the end of last week and said the following:

As your visa was issued before this rule came into force, the regulation will not be applied to the period of time that you already have spent in Russia before this rule came into force

They also said that a note in Russian would be added to my visa / passport to say that I was now subject to the 90 / 180 days regulations

Briolette.
07-11-2007, 14:50
IChampagne time for me :)

:hooray::hooray::hooray:

Proper Bostonian
07-11-2007, 15:32
I, too, understand the 90 days starts from the date of the new law - 10/17.

Congratulations, Bels!

karaganda2007
07-11-2007, 16:16
Just called Intel Service, which did my visa. At first, the lady there told me that the 90 days started from when I entered the country in July. But she backtracked and said she was not sure - after I told her I had just entered the country this morning over my 90 day limit. She suggested calling the Russian embassy in Washington. Of course, we all know that they will know nothing.

However, I tend to agree with you guys that it would make sense for this not to affect time spent in the country before Oct 17 (but this is Russia and nothing makes sense).

David Craig
08-11-2007, 13:43
Ok. The new laws ARE retroactive and the countdown regardless of when or where you got your visa, or your nationality, or whether you eat borsch or whatever the hell else doesn't matter a jot.

The countdown starts from October 17th regardless of how long you were here before that date.

You'll have to make other arrangements if you want to stay in Russia on a more permanent basis (eg. work visa) and you'll have to start the ball rolling now.

These laws are not somehow negotiable and you can't argue your interpretation of them, they are what they are and what will happen will happen, even if the same thing doesn't seem to happen to everyone and even if the above information is even accurate or not.

Just pay to someone to arrange a new work visa for you and there will be no more problems......well, at least for the next few days......maybe...................

thva
10-11-2007, 23:51
indeed, David is apparently correct that the law did take effect on Oct. 17 for everyone -
but the issue is that instructions about how it is to be enforced have not even been written yet, let alone filtered down to all of the little guys at the bottom of the food chain (border guards, local OVIR, etc) -
so until this happens, it is unclear what will happen if people try to stay beyond the 90 days

Bels
11-11-2007, 12:08
indeed, David is apparently correct that the law did take effect on Oct. 17 for everyone -
but the issue is that instructions about how it is to be enforced have not even been written yet, let alone filtered down to all of the little guys at the bottom of the food chain (border guards, local OVIR, etc) -
so until this happens, it is unclear what will happen if people try to stay beyond the 90 days

A great start would be in our local Russian Embassies which we use to apply for our visas. I would have thought that this would be the best point for enforcement. But if they don't know, what chance do we have. We have already had Brits on 90 days from other European Embassies. But not the London Office which continues as if everything is the same.

SalTheReturn
11-11-2007, 14:37
A great start would be in our local Russian Embassies which we use to apply for our visas. I would have thought that this would be the best point for enforcement. But if they don't know, what chance do we have. We have already had Brits on 90 days from other European Embassies. But not the London Office which continues as if everything is the same.

I do not understand or actually I do understand the matter...

believe me Bels if for any reason I am a Brit/EU/American national and I am going to end up in trouble because of my embassy lacking clear info on the visa issues, these people at the Embassy would undergone their share of troubles. Do not they know how the new regulation work? Cannot they provide first rate accurate info? Well, report them to all authorities, newspapers, institutional offices, also contact the Embassador with tons of letter preferably signed by other british nationals.

Here in Italy we obliged the italian embassy in Moscow to give us couple of reply through the press (though it was not about visa issue but concerning the russian-italian marriages) because we have complaint to one important journalist/politician who takes care of these sort of issues.

Never forget (this is the best thing UK taught me) your country is the master of all formal complaints, in UK you can alwasy complain and every single institution/shop/office will have someone obliged to respond you.

Good luck mate, do not undervalue the power of British-made rants.

Bels
11-11-2007, 15:35
No I don't Sal. The British immigration office was in serious trouble last year for being inundated with work allowing immigrants in. They made a lot of mistakes by allowing too many of the wrong ones in. It was in the papers and they had to change because of that. They put the price up for immigrant applications to 800. Promising that this fe would make them more efficient.

However, I was talking about Russian Embassies in their respective countries. And for the moment I have no arguments with the Russian Embassy in London. They may well be right, and they will inform us of any changes when necessary. In fact I haven't heard of any complaints coming from the Russian Embassy in London

Ales
12-11-2007, 23:06
I would not worry if you just stay until the expiration date of the visa. Who really cares about the 90 days? It may be a problem only if you are stopped on the street and asked for the registration (never happened to me in 2 years of taking the metro, although I had all of the papers). Remember: registration is not checked when leaving the airport, only the visa itself.

Scottish01
12-11-2007, 23:29
I would not worry if you just stay until the expiration date of the visa. Who really cares about the 90 days? It may be a problem only if you are stopped on the street and asked for the registration (never happened to me in 2 years of taking the metro, although I had all of the papers). Remember: registration is not checked when leaving the airport, only the visa itself.

Yes they don't check the registration, but I am sure they can easily see from the stamps in your passport, how long you have been in the country!

I wouldn't mess with the rules, you just find another way to stay!

easy eh!?:coffee:

Bels
12-11-2007, 23:31
That's ok if you are prepared to take risks, but remember some of us have family or jobs for example. Times are changing and if you are serious about staying here you should take it seriously. Sounds like you have just come back after a long period.

Ales
12-11-2007, 23:51
I left Russia in October and am now in the States. I had a multi-entry 1-yr. business visa issued in February 2007. At the airport no one looked at my stamps, only at the visa itself. What I meant in my last post was: perhaps if you have a visa issued a while back, you do not need to worry about the new 90-day rule (there are many people anxious that they will have to leave). But I am not there anymore, and cannot tell the seriousness of the new law as it applies to "old" visas.

Proper Bostonian
13-11-2007, 08:56
According to today's Moscow Times, Migration Service officials said the new law is NOT retroactive! At least that gives some of us a bit of breathing space.

VladSkywolf
14-11-2007, 10:56
According to today's Moscow Times, Migration Service officials said the new law is NOT retroactive! At least that gives some of us a bit of breathing space.

Now they just need to filter this information down to all the local FMS offices. I re-registered yesterday, and in the absence of clear instructions on the old visas (they only had info on new visas) they gave me 90 days (more than would have been allowed under the new law). They told us to check back in a week or two and will give me the full 180 days if they've received clarification.

For those of you with spouses here, have them (or their family) apply for private invitation letters. Leaving and returning every three months with a private visa is preferable to being away from your spouse for three months - at least for me it would be!

Edit
Last statement is meant for those waiting for residency or work permit processing.

DDT
14-11-2007, 16:21
I stopped in at the Agency here in St Petes that sent my Visa in for registration, just last night, and they have assured me that since my Visa was issued before the new law I will be able get re-registered as usual. Take it for what it's worth.

Bels
14-11-2007, 23:25
According to today's Moscow Times, Migration Service officials said the new law is NOT retroactive! At least that gives some of us a bit of breathing space.

No way am I going to take notice of this damn paper again. It's garbage.
However breathing space yes. But I didn't need this stupid paper for that.


Have you read their real estate claims! what world are they in MARS!?

Bels
13-12-2007, 13:07
I can't find the English version. The sites relevence is to foreigners, isn't it?

ezik
13-12-2007, 15:12
I was the page also with (some) English information.

Good that it actually mentions how the business visa have been used by many as a way of residing in Russia, rather than visiting. FMS mentioning this, in my opinion, is rather remarkable as they publicly take some responsibility and show awareness.

Also, as the 90/180 day visas were ready and printed already half a year ago. I'm sure the law was ready, as it basically copies the EU treaty. Passing the law only in October gives many of us breathing space, but it also states a clear message:

All of us travelling/residing on the "incorrect" visa have been given a break. But we all should get our acts together.

See what suits you below:
TOURIST VISA: only for tourists visiting and residing in hotels. Needs a voucher, proof of payment. Still easy to buy and can be emailed to the person applying for a visa. Registration by the hotel, within NEWSFLASH 10 working days. Max term of stay 90 days.
PRIVATE VISA: For private VISITORS. Private host needs to fix you an invitation. This procedure seems to have become easier for the host (but have no details). Registration within 3 working days by host. Max term of stay 90 days.
BUSINESS VISA: For business VISITORS. Business host needs to fix you an invitation. This procedure seems to have become easier for the host (but have no details). Registration within 3 working days by or through host. ONLY for business visits, i.e. not allowed to work directly for a Russian company or Russian subsidiairy of a company. Max term of stay 90 days out of 180 per entry.
WORKING VISA: As business visa, but meant for those doing temporary (< 90 days) work for a Russian company or subsidiairy directly. Max term of stay 90 days out of 180 per entry.
WORKING PERMIT: Residence allowed for the term of the job. Registration by or through host or landlord. Meant only for working longer term in Russia for a Russian company or subsidiairy. Work finished = permit finished. Max term of stay 365 days. Renewed every year.
RESIDENCE PERMIT (TEMP/PERMANENT): For those residing here primarily for private reasons. Working allowed. Registration within 3 working days by host (which can be you, if you own a place). Valid for 3 (temp) or 5 (perm) years, allowed to stay here all the time.
RUSSIAN PASSPORT: For those with a Residence Permit who want to stay indefinitely. Note that many countries forbid you to have a double nationality.

solnishko
16-12-2007, 20:46
A clarification required:

Let's say I get an invitation for a 1 year ME business visa.

I go to a consulate and have the visa issued. On my visa it says that I can enter Russia any time after the 1st of Jan.

I don't enter on the 1st of Jan, but instead 3 months later.

I stay in Russia then for 90 days.

So I have stayed in Russia for 90 days out of the 180 since my visa has been valid.

Does that mean that I can exit the country and enter again immediately to start the next period of 90/180 days?

Bels
16-12-2007, 22:01
A clarification required:

Let's say I get an invitation for a 1 year ME business visa.

I go to a consulate and have the visa issued. On my visa it says that I can enter Russia any time after the 1st of Jan.

I don't enter on the 1st of Jan, but instead 3 months later.

I stay in Russia then for 90 days.

So I have stayed in Russia for 90 days out of the 180 since my visa has been valid.

Does that mean that I can exit the country and enter again immediately to start the next period of 90/180 days?

What will make it clearer with these new laws is first of all your Nationality.
Secondly your true purpose of visit. Are you here on business, are you here to work. If you are here to work and you have a legal work contract contract then you should have no problems.

If you are here because you love someone and want to get married, then I have seen some flaws in the regulations. No doubt you need to financially develop yourself in the meantime. WOW! some problems on how to do it legally are there.

You must be clear on your nationality, and your purpose for being in Russia. Because that is the whole point of these new laws.

Guest
16-12-2007, 22:13
No. You must consider the "180 last days" at the date you want to re-enter Russia. If during these last 180 days you already were in Russia, you have to wait.

Visa January 1st
Entrance April 1st
In Russia 90 days: April 1st -> June 30th approximatively, don't want to count :)
Now you must wait 90 days, to enter again, it goes to (about) October 1st.



A clarification required:

Let's say I get an invitation for a 1 year ME business visa.

I go to a consulate and have the visa issued. On my visa it says that I can enter Russia any time after the 1st of Jan.

I don't enter on the 1st of Jan, but instead 3 months later.

I stay in Russia then for 90 days.

So I have stayed in Russia for 90 days out of the 180 since my visa has been valid.

Does that mean that I can exit the country and enter again immediately to start the next period of 90/180 days?

Bels
16-12-2007, 23:09
It's a shame though, for those who have genune purpose in Russia. But that's the way it is.

Guest
16-12-2007, 23:29
It's a shame though, for those who have genune purpose in Russia. But that's the way it is.

Yes I agree, but residence permits are not so hard to get, easier than in the EU or the USA!

DooLittle
19-12-2007, 20:25
I just received a new ME today in Kiev (U.S. citizen). They told me that since the last visa I was on was issued BEFORE the new law came into effect, the 90 day limit on the one just issued starts with the first day of entry. meaning that the time I spent in Russia since last November does not count against me.

Bels
19-12-2007, 21:27
Yes I agree, but residence permits are not so hard to get, easier than in the EU or the USA!

Sorry :) easier and more efficient in Britain, if you are married or even have a fiance. Proven on this site.

Also if you have a very good profefession much in demand in Britain or you're wealthy and wish to invest in Britain.

DooLittle
19-12-2007, 21:35
Yes I agree, but residence permits are not so hard to get, easier than in the EU or the USA!

It is far easier to get a residence permit in the U.S. if you are married or engaged to a citizen. In Russia, marriage only excludes you from the quota system and engagement doesn't help at all. On top of all that, you aren't limited to where you can live or work.

This isn't a jab at the Russian system, but it is one at your comment :)

I may not like it, but I understand reciprocity, but how do you explain that a foreigner can only get a 1 year visa to Russia, while I have Russian friends with 5 year U.S. visas (that are no more expensive than my 1 year ones)? Is that really reciprocity?

ezik
12-01-2008, 11:38
For what it's worth:
If the law would be applied retroactively, I suppose that looking at the several entrance and exit stamps in my passport would have made passport control conclude that I'd overstayed my 90 days and therefore would not be allowed in for the next 90 days.
However, last night I crossed the Estonian - Russian border. The officer thoroughly scanned my visa and stamps. I had been staying in Russia since the beginning of August '07 untill first week of January '08.
No questions were asked and I was allowed back in.
Will check on Monday if I again get registered for 180 days. :)

Guest
12-01-2008, 14:16
Welcome back :)

Judge
12-01-2008, 16:14
Welcome back.
That's good news about the visa.I bet your gut was a mess trying to get over the boarder,but hey that's why we call it dutch courage:drink:,the dutch will try anything first.

Judge
12-01-2008, 16:16
Guest... lets say ezik only gets 3 months registration,does he have to leave the country again for the day or can he just go down to the post office and get another 3 months..

cheers.

Guest
12-01-2008, 17:28
Guest... lets say ezik only gets 3 months registration,does he have to leave the country again for the day or can he just go down to the post office and get another 3 months..

cheers.


The point is that most visa companies now, when they see an EU ME visa, say "90 days", they don't care of the date it was delivered. A friend from Italy was in this case 6 months ago, he got a 90 days registration and the stupid visa agency (visatorussia.com on Leninski) told "new law is 90 days, that is all". That was of course wrong as the visa was delivered before the new law.

My friend anyway got a tep residence permit, so he now doesn't need his visa anymore. But so for Ezik, if so, he will just register again at the post office. And in case of problems (the post office doesn't want, or the company doesn't want etc), just go to the FMS of your place and they will register the visa!

ezik
14-01-2008, 14:46
On the Federal Migration Service site, this information is written:

"In respect to persons that arrived in the Russian Federation with multiple visas issued prior to this Resolution entry into force, previously applicable procedures for stay and registration of foreign nationals until expiry of their multiple visas (continuously within 180 days during 1 year) shall be applied."

And for your convenience (and in anticipation of the request), this is the address of the site:

- (http://fms.gov.ru/faq/list.php?IBLOCK_ID=59)

The English information seems to have gone. I browsed like 20 pages of the FAQs to which the above link refers, but no more English info. Maybe I should look further back? Does anyone still have this info?

Searching the FAQ on the word "visa" does provide a link that has some English words in the summary, but if I click it I get back at page 1 of FAQ.

If the English version has been removed, does anyone know on which page of the FAQ the Russian question and answer are?

Many thanks!

ezik
14-01-2008, 15:25
I got a 90 days registration at FMS, just this morning. And the head of the local FMS needed to make this decision after the arguments about retroactivity of the Law of October 17th didn't work with the lady at window #3. She just looked at my exit/entrance stamps and concluded that I had overstayed 90 days.

Her statements were:
- I should have had trouble already when exiting the country. But I didn't, although my passport and everything in it was thoroughly checked.
- I should have had trouble already when re-entering the country. But I didn't, although my passport and everything in it was thoroughly checked.

She gave me the same arguments after her boss had been convinced by my wife and me. She added that if I had exited and entered by airplane, I would have got into trouble for definite. We replied that we expect Russian passport control to apply the same rules regardless of means of transport. She gave me a mean look and then my registration. :D

Although I think that I was allowed to exit and re-enter in full compliance with the old and new laws and would expect anyone in a similar position to be, it looks like there is still some confusion. I.e.: don't take the fact that I was asked NO questions whatsoever as a rule, better expect questions.

From the information previously posted on the FMS website, I would have expected to be entitled for 180 days registration as my visa is from before October 17th. But it looks to me like the criteria about retroactivity are more or less:
- if you entered before October 17th, you can sit out your 180 days
- upon re-entering, the 90 days rule applies for both old and new visas.



The point is that most visa companies now, when they see an EU ME visa, say "90 days", they don't care of the date it was delivered. A friend from Italy was in this case 6 months ago, he got a 90 days registration and the stupid visa agency (visatorussia.com on Leninski) told "new law is 90 days, that is all". That was of course wrong as the visa was delivered before the new law.

My friend anyway got a tep residence permit, so he now doesn't need his visa anymore. But so for Ezik, if so, he will just register again at the post office. And in case of problems (the post office doesn't want, or the company doesn't want etc), just go to the FMS of your place and they will register the visa!

ezik
14-01-2008, 15:41
Guest... lets say ezik only gets 3 months registration,does he have to leave the country again for the day or can he just go down to the post office and get another 3 months..

cheers.

The head of FMS was quite clear here. Upon my next exit, I need to stay away for 90 days. However, I could re-enter Russia within a few days on a NEW visa, getting registered again for 90 days.

Oh, and I contacted my employer's Russian company, who provided me with the business visa. They told me that they would still interpret the 180/90 only valid for visas issued AFTER Oct. 17th. I.e.: they agree with me that I should in fact have gotten a 180 days registration.

But I can understand the head of the local FMS: he admitted that there is still confusion about the rules. With the 90 days registration, he has applied the rules in a way that can never be mistaken for being wrong or against the law. If he had given me 180 days (whether in compliance with the law or not), both me and him would be likely to start encountering some raised eyebrows...

ezik
01-02-2008, 13:50
English link seems to be.... back!

- (http://fms.gov.ru/faq/list.php?IBLOCK_ID=59)

Just to make sure that we are not loosing this info, here's the integrated text, too:


Amendments to the procedure of Russian visas issuing and the corresponding amendments to the residence procedure for the foreign citizens with the multiply Russian visas? (Какие изменения произошли в порядке выдачи виз иностранным гражданам и, в этой связи, в порядке пребывания иностранных граждан, имеющих многократные визы, на территории Российской Федерации?)

On October 4, 2007 the Government of the Russian Federation approved Changes to the Provisions related to the establishment of the form of visa, procedures and terms of its execution and issue, its extension, restoration in case of loss, as well as procedures for visa cancellation (Resolution of the Government of the Russian Federation No.635).

These changes were made first of all with the objective to bring into compliance provisions of the applicable Russian law, and they totally comply with provisions of the international Agreement concluded by the Russian Federation with the European Union states on Facilitation of Visa Procedures.

It is not a secret that some time ago foreign nationals used yearly multiple visas for their work in Russia.

In particular, in accordance with the Agreement between the Russian Federation and the European Community about facilitation of visa issue to nationals of the Russian Federation and the European Union that entered into force on June 1 this year, a total time period for stay of nationals of the Russian Federation in the territory of states that are parties to the Agreement cannot exceed 90 days during half-year for all short-term visas including multiple visas.

According to Item 5 of the said Resolution a total time period of stay of a foreign national in the Russian Federation with a multiple visa shall be established by an authorized public agency, but shall not exceed 90 days within each time period of 180 days, which means that no innovations have been made in our Law in respect to nationals of the EC member-states. They apply only to nationals of other countries, and completely comply with Schengen procedures.

A new time period of stay was established for foreign citizens staying in the Russian Federation on the basis of multiple business or humanitarian visas issued effective from October 18, 2007, and does not apply to holders of labor and educational visas.

In respect to persons that arrived in the Russian Federation with multiple visas issued prior to this Resolution entry into force, previously applicable procedures for stay and registration of foreign nationals until expiry of their multiple visas (continuously within 180 days during 1 year) shall be applied.

Also the said Resolution of the Government of the Russian Federation defined an exhaustive list of grounds, in accordance with which a visa of a foreign national can be extended, and a time period for its extension can be established.

(4 октября 2007 г. Правительство Российской Федерации утвердило изменения в Положение об установлении формы визы, порядка и условий её оформления и выдачи, продления срока её действия, восстановления её в случае утраты, а так же порядка аннулирования визы (постановление Правительства Российской Федерации № 635).

Данные изменения внесены, прежде всего, для приведения в соответствие положений действующего Российского законодательства, и полностью соответствуют нормам международного Соглашения, заключенного Российской Федерацией со странами Евросоюза об упрощении визовых процедур.

Не секрет, что раньше многие иностранные граждане использовали годовые многократные визы для работы в России.

В частности, в соответствии с Соглашением между Российской Федерацией и Европейским сообществом об упрощении выдачи виз гражданам Российской Федерации и Европейского союза, вступившим в силу 1 июня 2007 года, суммарный срок пребывания граждан Российской Федерации на территории государств-участников Соглашения по всем краткосрочным визам, включая МНГ, не может превышать 90 суток в течение полугода.

Пунктом 5 названного постановления определено, что суммарный срок пребывания иностранного гражданина в Российской Федерации по многократной визе устанавливается при оформлении визы уполномоченным государственным органом, но не более чем 90 дней в течение каждого периода в 180 дней, то есть никаких нововведений в нашем Законодательстве в отношении граждан стран-членов ЕС не произошло. Они коснулись только граждан других стран и полностью соответствуют Шенгенским правилам.

Новый срок пребывания установлен для иностранных граждан, пребывающих в Российской Федерации на основании многократных деловых или гуманитарных виз, оформленных с 18 октября 2007 года, и не распространяется на владельцев рабочих и учебных виз.

При этом в отношении лиц, прибывших в Российскую Федерацию по многократным визам, оформленным до вступления в силу настоящего постановления, применяются ранее действовавшие правила пребывания и учета иностранных граждан до окончания срока действия их многократных виз (непрерывно 180 суток в течение 1 года).

Названное постановление Правительства Российской Федерации определяет также исчерпывающий перечень оснований, при которых может быть продлена виза иностранного гражданина, и установлен срок ее продления.)

Maxim
04-02-2008, 13:41
What are you talking about?

The law is about issuing a visa. If you already had a visa before 17oct, it can not affect you at all.

th&vk
04-02-2008, 15:05
What are you talking about?

The law is about issuing a visa. If you already had a visa before 17oct, it can not affect you at all.

As soon as I read about Ezik's experience with registration I contacted the agency from which I got my pre-Oct 17 business visa -- and they confirmed what Ezik had been told ... we can stay 180 days, no hassles; when we do the 180-day exit/re-enter, we'll get registered for 90 days, period. After that, it's exit and wait 90 days (by which time the visa will have expired anyhow, of course) or get a new visa (whatever you can get) and re-enter immediately ...


So it seems the government has given us more of a grace period on the pre-Oct 17 visa/registration situation, than a carte blanche dispensation, which we all thought / interpreted / hoped to be the case.

Tara2007
08-02-2008, 15:35
The name of the law it changed is:
ПОСТАНОВЛЕНИЕ Правительства РФ от 9 июня 2003 г. N 335

ОБ УТВЕРЖДЕНИИ ПОЛОЖЕНИЯ ОБ УСТАНОВЛЕНИИ ФОРМЫ ВИЗЫ, ПОРЯДКА
И УСЛОВИЙ ЕЕ ОФОРМЛЕНИЯ И ВЫДАЧИ, ПРОДЛЕНИЯ СРОКА
ЕЕ ДЕЙСТВИЯ, ВОССТАНОВЛЕНИЯ ЕЕ В СЛУЧАЕ УТРАТЫ,
А ТАКЖЕ ПОРЯДКА АННУЛИРОВАНИЯ ВИЗЫ

(в ред. Постановления Правительства РФ от 04.10.2007 N 635)

Found this information on the web-site of the OVD of Tomsk oblast, it's in Russian, explanation about the new 90 days rules. With answers to all questions, as I understand.


Новости \ О визах


В соответствии с постановлением Правительства Российской Федерации от 4 октября 2007 года № 635 О внесении изменений в Положение об установлении формы визы, порядка и условий ее оформления и выдачи, продления срока ее действия, восстановления ее в случае утраты, а также порядка аннулирования визы сообщаем следующее.

Суммарный срок пребывания иностранного гражданина в Российской Федерации по многократной визе может составлять не более 90 дней в течение каждого периода в 180 дней. Новый срок пребывания распространяется на иностранных граждан, пребывающих в РФ на основании многократных деловых или гуманитарных виз, оформленных с 18 октября 2007 года, и не распространяется на владельцев рабочих и учебных виз. Визы, оформленные по новым правилам, должны содержать запись Действует 90 дней из каждых 180.

Каждый период в 180 дней исчисляется с даты первого въезда иностранного гражданина в РФ по многократной визе. При этом иностранный гражданин может пребывать по данной визе 90 дней в течение каждого периода в 180 дней, либо непрерывно с даты въезда в РФ.

В случае израсходования иностранным гражданином 90 дневного срока пребывания, он вправе повторно въехать в РФ по имеющейся многократной визе на очередные 90 дней только по истечению первоначального периода в 180 дней.

Учитывая новые изменения, при постановке на миграционный учет особое внимание будет обращаться на заявленный срок пребывания в РФ.
В случае превышения установленного срока Федеральная миграционная служба в приеме уведомления о прибытии иностранного гражданина в место пребывания вынуждена отказывать.

В отношении лиц, прибывших в Российскую Федерацию по многократным визам, оформленным до вступления в силу постановления, применяются ранее действовавшие правила пребывания иностранных граждан до окончания срока действия их многократных виз (непрерывно 180 суток в течение 1 года).

ezik
15-02-2008, 11:59
That's a comprehensive text and more importantly a number of a law, date, etc.

Many thanks!

Tara2007
15-02-2008, 13:16
Welcome, I'm responsible for visas in our company :11215::rules:

boscoe
15-02-2008, 13:39
Welcome, I'm responsible for visas in our company :11215::rules:
do you do any moonlighting?

:)

Tara2007
15-02-2008, 13:46
What do you mean "moonlightning"? I'm working for my company only :-)

Bels
15-02-2008, 20:13
Then please give us the info about yourself. Start contributing to expat with your knowlege and experience. Getting visas is easy for all, and many here do it themselves. How about invitations for example, do you supply them and how much. Can you inform us of the new laws talked about in February 2008?

It's no good giving a few words and expecting to compet with our already recommended providers such as Liga consultants. How can you compete with them.

ezik
18-02-2008, 20:49
Then please give us the info about yourself. Start contributing to expat with your knowlege and experience. Getting visas is easy for all, and many here do it themselves. How about invitations for example, do you supply them and how much. Can you inform us of the new laws talked about in February 2008?

It's no good giving a few words and expecting to compet with our already recommended providers such as Liga consultants. How can you compete with them.

Did you notice how much of the information for this topic is provided by private resources and individuals?

The members of this site are most helped by independent sources that not only provide advice and service, but also can be regarded as legally authentic.

Of course, the MVD and MID would be the first bodies to think of, but they are obviously still thinking that any immigrant or visitor is fluent in Russian... Great thinking.... Anyway....

OCSE seems to at least have the most recent immigration law translated....

Bels
18-02-2008, 22:36
Did you notice how much of the information for this topic is provided by private resources and individuals?

The members of this site are most helped by independent sources that not only provide advice and service, but also can be regarded as legally authentic.

Of course, the MVD and MID would be the first bodies to think of, but they are obviously still thinking that any immigrant or visitor is fluent in Russian... Great thinking.... Anyway....

OCSE seems to at least have the most recent immigration law translated....

Exactly, and I always encourage members and especially independent sources to start talking. I don't discourage tryig to promote themselves, but they must speak up and impress us. Not just a few words such I can sort out your visa problem, please contact me. That's not enough, keep talking and if we're impressed and get to trust you many might ask you for help.

But for the moment those members should first ask questions here. And the they should also ask us who we recommend for giving invitations visa service and invitations for example. Not one line posters, I wouldn't trust them with a bargepole.

Tara2007
19-02-2008, 14:56
Sorry, I did not understand about problems with the law in Russia, was the previous post addressed to me or not? Anyway I translated my previous post in Russian, my English is not good, but you will understand it anyway :wavey:


According to the Russian Government Order dated October 4, 2007 # 635 Re: changes in the Regulations about visas forms, terms and conditions of the applying and issuing, terms of extension of the visas, re-issuing and annulating we are to inform about the following:

The summary period of stay of the foreign citizen in the Russian Federation on the multiple entry visa can be not more than 90 days during each period of 180 days. This new period of stay will relate to the foreign citizens staying at the RF on the basis of the multiple business and humanitarian visas, issued after October 18, 2007, and not affect the foreigners who is staying at the RF on working and study visas. Visas issued due to these new rules must have a note valid 90 days from each 180.

Each period in 180 days counted from the date of the first entrance of the foreign person to the RF on this multiple visa. The foreign person can stay on this visa 90 days during each period of 180 days or continuously from the date of his entry into Russia.

In case of spending this 90 days allowed period of stay by the foreigner he has a right to enter into the RF on the existing multiple entry visa for the next 90 days only after the first 180 days period is over.

Due to these new changes, during the registration at the migration authorities the main (detailed) attention will be given to the declared period of stay in Russia.
In case of the missed deadline (as I understood they mean that if in the documents for the registration of your stay youll ask to register you for the period more than its allowed on your visa (like 91 day instead of 90)) the Federal Migration service will refuse the acceptance of your registration notification.

For the persons arrived into the RF using the multiple entry visas issued before the new changes came into force, the old rules of stay will apply until their visas expired (continuously during 180 days during the period of 1 year).

And sorry, but I really don't understand your problems, especially with invitations, if your company registered in proper way with the Russian authorities, company can easiely get the invitation issued in normal way (not bought from the web-sites). This affect business invitations, with working invitation everything is much more difficult.
As I think these new changes done by the Federal Migration Service just to obey your Employers to apply for the working visas for its foreign Employees (if they work on the permanent basis in Russia). Because as I found out a lot of foreigners used to work in Russia on the basis of business visa, which is incorrect according to our laws.

ezik
19-02-2008, 15:12
I think that Tara2007's post are very informative and elaborate.

Getting the info from the official source is quite some work and having a professional confirming information and adding some, in my view, is a friendly gesture. And I don't mind if that promotes Tara2007, who already clearly stated that she is working for one company only.

Tara2007
19-02-2008, 17:56
Oh, Bels, finally I understand what you meant, but I'm not competing at all :-) Sorry, but I don't know this Liga consultants, so I can not compete with them, I'm a regular employee who used to apply for several invitations (working visas and business visas) for several years for the expats at my company, this is it. I never used any visa services I do everything on my own for my expats.
I even don't know anything about these changes in February (as my expats have valid visas and work permit, so I don't care for now), I searched the Internet, my law database and did not find anything interesting at all.
In February our authorities accepted the quota for foreginers, some changes in the Administration code (penalties for the employees, employers for not informing the authorities about labor contracts signed with the foreigners and ect), it used to be, but they added some restrictions; plus
a new order (about procedure of the extension of the visas (working and ect, exept diplomatic and service visas) at the local FMS in Russia) from the Federal Migration Service (# 430 dated November 8, 2007 registered at the Ministry of Justice) looks like came into fource. But this is not interesting at all, as it'd be interesting for the people who have problems with leaving Russia not in time. The working visas extension is the same.
So please tell me what's new in the visa rules in February, I really don't know, let's share the information. :wavey:

dkgoldman
27-02-2008, 14:30
I am here with my family from the US. We currently have one year ME visas issued in July 2007, we arrived on Aug 3. Our visa falls under humanitarian. We registered in our city for a year. We have checked at our local Migration Office and they were unaware of any changes with visas. They told us they will issue the invitation for a year as before and register us for a year when we return.

Of course, this is totally contradictory to the current law. Our dilemma is what to do for the remainder of this year. We have a registration through July 2008. We intend to depart in June to do visa renewal at which point we will depart via Moscow. Do you think we will have problems exiting because we will have been in the country since August 2007? If the changes are not retroactive, then as long as we are registered, we are complying with the law, I think. We don't want to have problems renewing and returning.

We have called the regional embassy (Ekat) who advised us to go by what the local migration office says. But our local office doesn't seem to be aware of anything happening in Moscow. We will be traveling though Moscow so what happens at the airport is really what matters. But what will happen at the airport? Is there any way to know?

Also, an additional complication is I have a trip in April out of the country. If I depart, will I have difficulty getting back in? At that point the 90 days won't be a problem because I am leaving in early June anyway, but is it a possibility that I could be refused entry because I would have been in country from Aug 07 to April 08?

I'm asking these to anyone who can shed light on the issues. I have called embassies, read the information, and contacted local officials but no answers seem to rise to the top.

Thanks for your thoughts!

boscoe
27-02-2008, 14:48
I'm not totally up on this but I do know a friend left for the US recently with a valid visa (still with four months on it) the girl at the emigration desk checked the visa and the stamps showing when he'd left and returned. She then announced that he'd had his 180 days and wrote CANCELED over his visa...

dkgoldman
27-02-2008, 15:30
So, is that just the luck of the draw at the emigration desk or is this how it the law should be applied? Obviously the visa was issued prior to the law change and should not have been subject to the 180 thing, right?

So, I should not make the trip in April as it is too great a risk to have my visa cancelled. Was your friend banned or fined or anything or just lost his valid visa?

th&vk
27-02-2008, 16:11
I'm not totally up on this but I do know a friend left for the US recently with a valid visa (still with four months on it) the girl at the emigration desk checked the visa and the stamps showing when he'd left and returned. She then announced that he'd had his 180 days and wrote CANCELED over his visa...

But this is horrific!

While this situation totally violates what we were originally led to believe -- that all pre-Oct 17 visas would be honored under pre-Oct 17 rules (that is we get 365 days, with one required exit at 180 days) -- it also goes against a less generous but somewhat workable interpretation that authorities are giving, namely that you can have your first 180 days, then leave and return, and you get another 90 days and then you're out ...

If your friend still had 4 months to go his visa, he should have had at least one more grace month based on this latter interpretation ...

Wow! I'm just dumbstruck.

米乐龙
27-02-2008, 16:31
Repeating what a poster on this forum said, "Stop dicking around" get a work visa or a temp. residency.

Tara2007
01-03-2008, 20:26
What I would do in this case, you understand that you can't do anything against the officer at the Customs, in case he's going to put the stamp "cancelled", but don't forget what we're all regular employees and it's could be not your luck that he does not know the law in detail, he know only that a new law came into fource and if a foreigner is more than 90 days here on his business visa he has to put stamp "cancelled" in his passport, this is it, may be he does not know that it's not affecting the people who has visas issued before October-November, so, I think it's better always to keep with you a hard copy of the law and attitions to the law I mentioned and show this papers in case you think they're wrong and you're right.

Bels
01-03-2008, 20:33
Yes, but... what if you have received temporary residency in that time?

If have you recieved acceptance from your application for temporary residence then you have no problem. You stay in Russia, and no more trips.

Bels
01-03-2008, 20:39
The situation is, you are here to work with an invitation to work, you're here to be a tourist, or you're here to reside perhaps because your married or for other reasons. That's the way it is. No longer can you use business visa for the purpose of other than coming her for business.

I forgot the other other one, a personal invitation from a Russian, perhaps to see family etc. very inconvenient for the inviter, and only a three month visa and you have to go back to renew. but that,s the way it is here.

ezik
03-03-2008, 15:01
If have you recieved acceptance from your application for temporary residence then you have no problem. You stay in Russia, and no more trips.

Bels, does this mean that if I apply and the documents are accepted, I can stay in Russia without a visa waiting for the residence permit to be ready?

Bels
03-03-2008, 15:21
Unfortunately no, I meant a later stage of about 6-7 months later where a central office has checked your papers and has accepted your application.

From this point it's not over yet, but from this point you can stay in Russia and all the other bits and pieces are a matter of procedure, such as more papers to sign, a few more visits to FBS for fingerprints and identification for police records, handing in your passport to get the stamp on it, then it in again and waiting for yet another. Then only then can you say here's my residency in my passport.

My wife tried through the application process, because she thought we could stay while waiting for the answer, but she failed. I had to return to the UK, which was distressing when we had a young baby and we were dependant on each other.

Bels
03-03-2008, 15:47
I'm very much concerned for those married couples, a few have pm'd that they also have babies or a baby on the way. I'm concerned about those who have business visas and are now experiencing ninety days in, and ninety days out, whilst waiting for an acceptance of their application for residency.

I was lucky not to experience this new law, and I'd hear from others of they are dealing with this matter. My only suggestion is go to for personal invitation, at least you should be able to exit Russia, and return immediately after application at your countries Russian Embassy.

But make sure your next personal invitation is ready for you before have to leave the country.

Yes as stated before, the person invitation visa is only for 90 days at a time.

Guest
03-03-2008, 18:19
Fingerprints are not asked anymore for temp. resid. permits.




Unfortunately no, I meant a later stage of about 6-7 months later where a central office has checked your papers and has accepted your application.

From this point it's not over yet, but from this point you can stay in Russia and all the other bits and pieces are a matter of procedure, such as more papers to sign, a few more visits to FBS for fingerprints and identification for police records, handing in your passport to get the stamp on it, then it in again and waiting for yet another. Then only then can you say here's my residency in my passport.

My wife tried through the application process, because she thought we could stay while waiting for the answer, but she failed. I had to return to the UK, which was distressing when we had a young baby and we were dependant on each other.

Guest
03-03-2008, 18:19
Of course NO !!!!!!


Bels, does this mean that if I apply and the documents are accepted, I can stay in Russia without a visa waiting for the residence permit to be ready?

ezik
03-03-2008, 19:24
Of course NO !!!!!!

Just wanted to have that crystal clear. Thanks! :)

Bels
04-03-2008, 10:50
Fingerprints are not asked anymore for temp. resid. permits.

Let's be clear, I gave my fingerprints and digital photograph identification On January 2008. After my application had been accepted.

No! fingerprints are not required when you apply, they will do their own once your application has been accepted.