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Maxim
27-10-2007, 17:15
Does anybody know any law or official information regarding so called "Exit visa"?

I need to know its connection with temporary residence. I haven't find it anywhere. As far as I know it is used only if your normal visa is invalid or you lost your passport. But some people here say you need it for leaving the country after applying temp. res.

Clean32
27-10-2007, 18:37
Does anybody know any law or official information regarding so called "Exit visa"?

I need to know its connection with temporary residence. I haven't find it anywhere. As far as I know it is used only if your normal visa is invalid or you lost your passport. But some people here say you need it for leaving the country after applying temp. res.


Temp res and exit visa, correct if you are on your probation period you need an exit visa if you wish to leave, i will not actualy stop officals from letting you leave but it will stuff up any chances of getting Res Oh and your temp res will be conceld on exit. lastly you can never apply again for temp res or res

Maxim
27-10-2007, 19:39
Temp res and exit visa, correct if you are on your probation period you need an exit visa if you wish to leave, i will not actualy stop officals from letting you leave but it will stuff up any chances of getting Res Oh and your temp res will be conceld on exit. Where is this information from? I tried to find anything proving this but failed.


lastly you can never apply again for temp res or resAccording to the law you can apply as much as you want if refused.

Clean32
27-10-2007, 20:43
If you doint want to beleve whats posted here? why ask, better you just go to the horce then

you are quoting about reaplying if declined, not about leaving the country on a temp res with out an exit visa, 2 totaly difrent senerios. but in all honisty, doint ask here if you just want to argue, go to the OVIR

Bels
27-10-2007, 21:38
Where is this information from? I tried to find anything proving this but failed.

According to you can apply as much as you want if refused.

To be more polite, There is a web site but my wife finds it so vague and is often more directed to ex-soviets than westerners. Do it the Russian and communicate with the local authorities. Because these are the people you are dealing with face to face. Do not shout federal laws at them, because they don't want to know. read statements from the government web-site, they don't want to know either.

Yes, speak to your OVIR. Yes you can re-apply for you residency visa as many times as you like, but if you upset them, like leaving the country without an exit visa. You won't be able to apply for another.

I don,t know a lot myself, except going through the experiences and listening to a Russian, My wife. She did most of this application for me anyway.

Maxim
27-10-2007, 23:38
To be more polite, There is a web
Can you give me an address?


site but my wife finds it so vague and is often more directed to ex-soviets than westerners. Thats the thing. I never heard about exit visa for westerners.


Do not shout federal laws at them, because they don't want to know. read statements from the government web-site, they don't want to know either.Thank you, but I'm Russian myself and I know very good the limitation of the law. But, I need to know if there is any law about exit visa or not. Just to see the rules. Maybe it is discontinued.

Yes you can re-apply for you residency visa as many times as you like, but if you upset them, like leaving the country without an exit visa. You won't be able to apply for another.In my case the authorities were very pleased that westerner wants to live in Russia so they cooperated really a lot.

I don,t know a lot myself, except going through the experiences and listening to a Russian, My wife. She did most of this application for me anyway.[/QUOTE]

Maxim
27-10-2007, 23:41
If you doint want to beleve whats posted here? I was asking if there is any law.
I'm not interested in roumors.

I'll call to FMS as soon as they will open.

Clean32
28-10-2007, 00:03
Temporary Residence Permits (http://www.passportmagazine.ru/article/285/)

oh and good luck on ringing the FMS thay usally doint give out anwers

Guest
28-10-2007, 01:34
Clean, keep cool :)

And this article on passportmagazine is old and full of false statements, I won't list them one by one, it would be too long. Especially this "pre-submission" at Pokrovka is completely false, no need of it.

Get a blank in your local FMS office, with the addresses of hospitals where to go. THen just go, say you want tests for a residence permit, etc etc. A guy I know from Romania who didn't speak 10 words in Russian, managed all by himself and got his Temp. residence permit in 7 months, from the day he began the process. Without of course hiring a "specialist"!

Etc etc etc

Maxim, you are Russian, don't lose time by calling the FMS, clean is right about this! Just GO TO Pokrovka and ask :)

Clean32
28-10-2007, 08:28
Passport magazine was wht i just found to give to this guy, personaly i just whent to the OVIR, once in thay were quite good, FMS are a difrent story. maybe if you are russian its the othere way around.

anyway i will keep my " roumors " to my self, silly me trying to help a russian, biten hand as usal

Maxim
28-10-2007, 11:45
Maxim, you are Russian, don't lose time by calling the FMS, clean is right about this! Just GO TO Pokrovka and ask :)
What is there on Pokrovka? Main FMS is on Ordynka street. What do you mean?

I was calling to FMS before applying the documents. They answered all my questions.

Maxim
28-10-2007, 11:47
anyway i will keep my " roumors " to my self, silly me trying to help a russian, biten hand as usal
Mr. Clean32. I really appriciete your help.

But the answer to the question "does anybody know the exact law" can not be "I know how things works, don't ask me for a law".

Clean32
28-10-2007, 12:02
Mr. Clean32. I really appriciete your help.

But the answer to the question "does anybody know the exact law" can not be "I know how things works, don't ask me for a law".

in that case exit visa is the wrong turm, may be it should be called nocice of leaving and returning to RF. as the you would have read that when on temp res you can not change place of residence or work in a difrent place, i would say in the light of a lack of any spcific law, that exit visa is a hangover from before russia put there mark on the UN salsburg document.

eather way the exit visa is a good way to show that uopu havent been out for more than the 180 odd days, witch would also cancel you aplication, as would changing registerd address.

Maxim
29-10-2007, 11:38
So today I spoke with FMS officials (Управление ФМС России по г. Москве). They were very surprised with my question and told me that foreigner needs no permition to leave the country in my case.

So forget about exit visa.

Clean32
29-10-2007, 11:48
So today I spoke with FMS officials (Управление ФМС России по г. Москве). They were very surprised with my question and told me that foreigner needs no permition to leave the country in my case.

So forget about exit visa.

Mate, if you read my posts above, of coucre there is nothing in the FSB about exits visas, paving pernision to leave your contry was droped when the RF signed Salsburg. the EXIT VISA so named for what ever reason, is part of the administration prosess for a temp res visa, even then it will not STOP you from leaving RF. but it will stop and cancel you Temp res Visa. worce never to be aplyed for again.

so good advice wombat, tell a bunch of expats that some will beleve you leave RF and not be able to get back in good time. or maybe thats what you want ALL EXPATS GO HOME. now as you are russian and i am not. i know that you think i know nothing, so doint lissen to me, just try to ring the OVIR, becouse thats who expats have to deal with, and not the FMS

Maxim
29-10-2007, 12:18
Mate, if you read my posts above, of coucre there is nothing in the FSB about exits visas, paving pernision to leave your contry was droped when the RF signed Salsburg.
FSB and FMS is different offices. FMS is what you call OVIR.


i know that you think i know nothing, so doint lissen to me, just try to ring the OVIR, becouse thats who expats have to deal with, and not the FMSMy friend. There is no such thing as OVIR in Russia for many years. They all got renamed. Now it is FMS. Federal Migration Service. I spoke with them today.

Anyway, there is a possibility that these people do not know the law. Or they do not speak honestly on phone. So I will once again ask them personally this week (we are leaving on saturday and anyway I need to deliver the paper). And in January my wife is about to receive the permission. So we will see.

Clean32
29-10-2007, 12:30
FSB and FMS is different offices. FMS is what you call OVIR.

My friend. There is no such thing as OVIR in Russia for many years. They all got renamed. Now it is FMS. Federal Migration Service. I spoke with them today.

Anyway, there is a possibility that these people do not know the law. Or they do not speak honestly on phone. So I will once again ask them personally this week (we are leaving on saturday and anyway I need to deliver the paper). And in January my wife is about to receive the permission. So we will see.

ok point taken.
and intresting coments, reading poast there is at time definatly decrepanceys between FMS offices and there aplication of what ever laws/ procedures. the last hot topic was the USD 47 000. needed in the bank. with some aplicants being told, thay just needed a statement otheres told an apposeld statement or that it had to be in a russian bank, then along comes Bels and says no money needed at all. yet my local Ovir /Fms is still saying money in the Bank.

in that case maybe the exit visa, is just a money spiner for them? but when i did my Temp res it was stronly exsplaned that i defanatly needed one, and i often bump into my FMS officer at the local shops etc, as late as last week she was still saying the same???

Maxim
29-10-2007, 16:33
in that case maybe the exit visa, is just a money spiner for them? but when i did my Temp res it was stronly exsplaned that i defanatly needed one, and i often bump into my FMS officer at the local shops etc, as late as last week she was still saying the same???What exactly you were told? Tell me official russian name of this "visa".

Clean32
29-10-2007, 18:19
What exactly you were told? Tell me official russian name of this "visa".


Vess nihia, is how it sounds like visa exit to me, theres also the othere restrictions when on temp res. cant change place of registration can work in another Place. i think thats about it

Clean32
29-10-2007, 19:31
Oh wonderfule a red for spelling, unnamed of cource, no class. if im wrong then post it in here

Bels
29-10-2007, 20:41
Does anybody know any law or official information regarding so called "Exit visa"?

I need to know its connection with temporary residence. I haven't find it anywhere. As far as I know it is used only if your normal visa is invalid or you lost your passport. But some people here say you need it for leaving the country after applying temp. res.

Perhaps if you were a bit more personal. It's now understood you are Russian, one of the best people o f getting rid of these rumours. Like my Russian wife who is used to dealing with such matters. So the law to me is the info my wife gives from Russian. I trust her knowledge due to her investigations. Yes I will need an exit visa if I chose to leave Russia on my temporacy. However I have no intentions of doing so.

What about you. Are you assisting your spouse?
Now you may well be very useful for expats on business visa, have you seen what a mess they are in reading these threads. We need Russians members like you to sort out all this mess and rumours.

I don't think we have that same problem in residency, unless they start changing laws on a frequent basis

Maxim
29-10-2007, 22:03
Yes I will need an exit visa if I chose to leave Russia on my temporacy. IS THERE ANY PROOF OF THIS?
As far as I know, THERE IS NO ANY LAW, NO ANY REGULATIONS about ANY KIND OF EXIT VISA.
Can you please ask your wife what is the source of her knowledge?


What about you. Are you assisting your spouse?Yes.

Now you may well be very useful for expats on business visa, have you seen what a mess they are in reading these threads. I'm ready to help as much as I can.

I don't see any mess there (in threads), the mess is in embessies. I think everything is more clear now.
When I came to FMS in August the officer told me that he will defenitily register my wife with a business visa but I must know that one day this things will stop.
So now they stopped: only businessmen can have a business visa. If you want to live in Russia you need another documents. If you work in Russia you need to have a working visa.
It is more fare but as they didn't make any family reunion visa things are compicated for us.

I don't think we have that same problem in residency, unless they start changing laws on a frequent basisYou know, after our country was totally destroyed in 1991, you can't expect that in 15 years only all the laws will be perfect.

Clean32
29-10-2007, 23:03
You know, after our country was totally destroyed in 1991, you can't expect that in 15 years only all the laws will be perfect.

Totally agree, and visa topics are and always will be emotional, but as an expat with limited Russian, we are reliant on what we are told by the FMS, even if it is not the law, how can we challenge it? can you imagine and English person telling a Russian official of the FMS that they are wrong, or arguing at the airport with an officer, right or wrong thats a short ticket back to where ever we came from. in this forum before the crash just about everyone posted there experiences on what ever visa they were applying for, the variations in requirements were astounding, even as resent as a couple of months ago, Bels was posting about not needing USD $ 47000 in the bank, yet another poster was posting at the same time that the FMS required him to have that much money and that it needed to be in a Russian bank account, bels was not in Moscow city the second poster was in Moscow city.

So my point is please help us if you can. Secondly if for example you come up with the fact that exit visas are no longer required, then we all need a copy of the act as well. But here is a catch, exit visa are not required but we are still asked for one ?? What should / can we do then ?? Take the FMS to court, sheeesh we would be out of RF leaving our kids and wifes behind.

last point exit visas, I know of 5 expats, one who posts here and has posted that the exit visa issue is the main if not only reason that they have not applied for Temp res.

Maxim
29-10-2007, 23:23
[COLOR=black]Totally agree, and visa topics are and always will be emotional, but as an expat with limited Russian, we are reliant on what we are told by the FMS, even if it is not the law, how can we challenge it?I know one indian guy who was challenging police people on a train stations, and he was successfull.
But of course I understand your point.

[COLOR=black]So my point is please help us if you can. Secondly if for example you come up with the fact that exit visas are no longer required, then we all need a copy of the act as well. But here is a catch, exit visa are not required but we are still asked for one ?? Right now I haven't found anybody outside this forum who ever heard about such a thing. In all russian juridical forums they told me "read the law and stop disturbing us with this stupid ideas".
So I can not find a law which cancells this type of visa.

Take the FMS to court, sheeesh we would be out of RF leaving our kids and wife’s behind.Right now I'm reading forum : (http://www.fmsrf.ru/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=6) - they describe a lot of court cases. So this really works, although I can't beleive it myself :)

last point exit visas, I know of 5 expats, one who posts here and has posted that the exit visa issue is the main if not only reason that they have not applied for Temp res.
Here is the law: 25.07.2002 N 115- " " (http://www.akdi.ru/gd/proekt/089376GD.SHTM)
Chapter 7. Reasons for denial
(short translation by myself)
1) you are against constitution;
2) you finance terrorists;
3) you were deported from Russia at least once in last 5 years;
4) you gave fake documents or cheated in application form;
5) you are criminal;
6) same as 5;
7) almost same as 5;
8) you can't afford to live here;
9) you have nowhere to live;
10) you went out from the country for permanent residence;
11) you were out of Rusia for more then 6 months;
12) you marriage is recognized as void;
13) you are seriously ill.

One of these reosons must be in the official paper from FMS. According to the law there is no other reason.

Bels
29-10-2007, 23:28
IS THERE ANY PROOF OF THIS?
As far as I know, THERE IS NO ANY LAW, NO ANY REGULATIONS about ANY KIND OF EXIT VISA.
Can you please ask your wife what is the source of her knowledge?

Yes.
I'm ready to help as much as I can.

I don't see any mess there (in threads), the mess is in embessies. I think everything is more clear now.
When I came to FMS in August the officer told me that he will defenitily register my wife with a business visa but I must know that one day this things will stop.
So now they stopped: only businessmen can have a business visa. If you want to live in Russia you need another documents. If you work in Russia you need to have a working visa.
It is more fare but as they didn't make any family reunion visa things are compicated for us.
You know, after our country was totally destroyed in 1991, you can't expect that in 15 years only all the laws will be perfect.

If the the OVIR say so , then we must follow that. In other words the local goverment for our area. That's what we follow, the local government which you state doesn't exist anymore.
Why don't you try firing Federal laws at them?. Becauuse my wife has tried. and they will tell you to piss off. Because they have their rules and they are sticking by them.

Maxim
29-10-2007, 23:37
If the the OVIR say so , then we must follow that. In other words the local goverment for our area. That's what we follow, the local government which you state doesn't exist anymore.I repeat again: what is the source of information? OVIR as organization doesn't exist for years. "Exit visa" doesn't exist in russian law.
What, what they say in Russian? What is the name of this visa? If you just translate Ext visa to Russian ("выездная виза") you will see that it is required only in a very special cases - when you loose your passport for example.

Clean32
29-10-2007, 23:41
Cool thats the Law, now you must look at the administration of the law.

Take No 8 for example, i know and was showen the Book where it showed how to caculate the minim income and or how much money was needed in the bank, How bels got away with it i doint know, maybe it was a very nice cake he took to the ovir office on that day. and something like a cake can meen so much. but the law is the law the aplication of the law is so difrent. like when the law chaged about registartion, now it can be done at the postoffice, by a yet to be defined prossess?? has the prossess been defined yet?? there is a post last week where an expat whent to the postoffice and was told to go away??

thats where the confustion is, exit visa No 10, how is that interpited and applyed, thats the guts of this thread





I know one indian guy who was challenging police people on a train stations, and he was successfull.
But of course I understand your point.
Right now I haven't found anybody outside this forum who ever heard about such a thing. In all russian juridical forums they told me "read the law and stop disturbing us with this stupid ideas".
So I can not find a law which cancells this type of visa.
Right now I'm reading forum : (http://www.fmsrf.ru/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=6) - they describe a lot of court cases. So this really works, although I can't beleive it myself :)

Here is the law: 25.07.2002 N 115- " " (http://www.akdi.ru/gd/proekt/089376GD.SHTM)
Chapter 7. Reasons for denial
(short translation by myself)
1) you are against constitution;
2) you finance terrorists;
3) you were deported from Russia at least once in last 5 years;
4) you gave fake documents or cheated in application form;
5) you are criminal;
6) same as 5;
7) almost same as 5;
8) you can't afford to live here;
9) you have nowhere to live;
10) you went out from the country for permanent residence;
11) you were out of Rusia for more then 6 months;
12) you marriage is recognized as void;
13) you are seriously ill.

One of these reosons must be in the official paper from FMS. According to the law there is no other reason.

Maxim
29-10-2007, 23:50
Cool thats the Law, now you must look at the administration of the law.I know for sure that if they don't give you this permission they write paragraph number from this law.
If you don't know what was written there - just say it, ok? It is just a discussion, we are not lawyers, so lets make things clear as much as possible.


Take No 8 for example, i know and was showen the Book where it showed how to caculate the minim income and or how much money was needed in the bankRight now its not needed, so lets stop discussing this point.

And please stop saying OVIR instead of FMS. This can confuse people who are reading this forum.

Clean32
30-10-2007, 00:18
I know for sure that if they don't give you this permission they write paragraph number from this law.
If you don't know what was written there - just say it, ok? It is just a discussion, we are not lawyers, so lets make things clear as much as possible.

Right now its not needed, so lets stop discussing this point.

And please stop saying OVIR instead of FMS. This can confuse people who are reading this forum.

But the FMS will disagree with you inpratice

Maxim
30-10-2007, 00:28
But the FMS will disagree with you inpraticeNo, I was there and spoke to them. They accepted paper from my wife without any bank account.

Think for yourself: who in heaven's name have such a big summ of money? But people still get their permissions.

I found out the name of this "exit visa". It is "виза временно проживающего лица", "visa for temporary residence" or something like that. I didn't find any relations between this visa and the temporary residence applying process.

Clean32
30-10-2007, 00:41
No, I was there and spoke to them. They accepted paper from my wife without any bank account.

Think for yourself: who in heaven's name have such a big summ of money? But people still get their permissions.

I found out the name of this "exit visa". It is called "виза временно проживающего лица", "visa for temporary residence" or something like that. I didn't find any relations between this visa and the temporary residence applying process.

so intat case the yaroslavl office of the FMS is lieing or has lied to me ???

Maxim
30-10-2007, 12:46
so intat case the yaroslavl office of the FMS is lieing or has lied to me ???If you are talking about bank account - yes, there were not telling truth :)
But when this happened? They cancelled bank account requirement not so long time ago - maybe few months only.