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Judge
25-10-2007, 23:31
Anyone used an agency to to get the temp or perm residence visa.If everything went well could u post a contact of the agent ..
I have checked out a few and all look dodgy and they don't really know the rules and say different things.
I know some will say,best way is to do it all yourself,which i think is the best way,but i'm also sure there's atleast one decent agent in Moscow.

Cheers..

Guest
26-10-2007, 00:11
The point is that such agencies CAN NOT do anything to help you, as YOU have to be personally at all steps of the process! Medical tests, give your application, get your residence permit, give your fingerprint, register.

So concretely what can such agencies do? They will tell you "we will give you the applications to fill, and will check that you filled it correctly, also we will check that all the requested documents are here".

And they will ask a few thousands of DOLLARS for this!

Anybody can get applications and the list of requested documents to any FMS office - without queuing! Just enter, ask, receive, go out.
Moreovr such forms are available online for free - without queuing!

Then do you really need an agency to check that your copy of passport is notariezed, for example? Great joke!

YOU will have to queue for medical tests, not the agency even if you pay them a lot.YOU will have to go in person give your documents. etc etc.

Then YOU will wait the residence permit. When an agency says she can speed the process OK it is true BUT YOU ALSO can! You give the documents to a guy who will tell you "OK now just sit and wait 6 months".
Tell "I would like to speed the process, is it possible?"
He will reply "Let's go andspeak with my boss".
Then you will discuss, make some presents, etc.

An agency will just talk for you, and if the ... fee to speed is for example $1000, the agency will take $2000 from you: 1000 to speed and 1000 for them!

REALLY guys, no need this! For visa it is different as you need visa support that only agencies can supply. For RP, you do not need agency!

Sorry for this long reply but I feel always bad when people throw money out! Even when it is rich expats :)

Judge
26-10-2007, 00:17
Thanks Guest, that's the best way like you said...When i get back to the land of beauty,i'll have a few headaches and swearing ,i'll make sure to bring some nice gifts over with me for the nice people in OVIR..

Clean32
26-10-2007, 00:49
Thanks Clean, that's the best way like you said...When i get back to the land of beauty,i'll have a few headaches and swearing ,i'll make sure to bring some nice gifts over with me for the nice people in OVIR..

as i said and as you now know Guest is 100% bang on

as a passing thought, ANY ONES WIFE, BABUSKA that has already done the rounds of medical centers and ovir ques, want to hold Judes hand an take him around give him a yell. the wrost bit is not knowing where to go and what window to line up in LOL

Judge
26-10-2007, 02:41
as i said and as you now know Guest is 100% bang on

as a passing thought, ANY ONES WIFE, BABUSKA that has already done the rounds of medical centers and ovir ques, want to hold Judes hand an take him around give him a yell. the wrost bit is not knowing where to go and what window to line up in LOL

Any baba will do...:verycool:

vantru
26-10-2007, 16:42
Thanks very helpful...I just don't understand why russian laws totally ignore when a foreigner is married to a russian!!!!!!!!!!!

Guest
26-10-2007, 18:33
Thanks very helpful...I just don't understand why russian laws totally ignore when a foreigner is married to a russian!!!!!!!!!!!


False marriage are very popular in Western Europe to make people from Africa get a residence permit. Maybe Russia wants avoid this? Of course as usual, honest people are the victims of fraudsters... :(

But the The Russian law does not really marriage, as people who are married more than 3 years can get the citizenship quite immediately as soon as they have a temp. residence permit.

Clean32
26-10-2007, 20:22
Thanks very helpful...I just don't understand why russian laws totally ignore when a foreigner is married to a russian!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually they do, if you are married to a RF citz you donít come under quota like everyone else.

As to false Marriages, my country appears to view all marriages between Kiwis RF citz as marriages of convenience, IE all Russian girls are cheep sluts who are only interested in a Kiwi passport. This policy either official or not is usually based upon reports from the NZ immigration official based in Russia. In NZs case this is a woman of a very unpleasant disposition. All kiwis that I know or know of who have had dealings with her refer to her as being the biggest cow in Moscow. IE in short, if a Kiwi is married to a RF citz, he or she can forget about going back to NZ.

Fortunately she is being sent away, 2 bottles of rum ready for that day

Makes RF immigration policy and implimintation look like a peace of cake.

Bels
26-10-2007, 20:33
Actually they do, if you are married to a RF citz you don’t come under quota like everyone else.

As to false Marriages, my country appears to view all marriages between Kiwis RF citz as marriages of convenience, IE all Russian girls are cheep sluts who are only interested in a Kiwi passport. This policy either official or not is usually based upon reports from the NZ immigration official based in Russia. In NZs case this is a woman of a very unpleasant disposition. All kiwis that I know or know of who have had dealings with her refer to her as being the biggest cow in Moscow. IE in short, if a Kiwi is married to a RF citz, he or she can forget about going back to NZ.

Fortunately she is being sent away, 2 bottles of rum ready for that day

Makes RF immigration policy and implimintation look like a peace of cake.

Thats very unfortunate for your country if that is their mentality. I hope my country doesn't think this way. Yes their has been a problem of arranged marriages in the past.

Clean32
26-10-2007, 20:48
Thats very unfortunate for your country if that is their mentality. I hope my country doesn't think this way. Yes their has been a problem of arranged marriages in the past.

England and NZ have very similur laws, both countries have the " demonstrate to the officers satisfaction a true and stable relationship" thay both use the push and pull formula to decide if to give a visa or not. IE more pull than push no visa.

Australia and the US both have relationship laws, if i remember correctly USA boy comes to russia meets girl goes home girl aplyes for visa go to the US get married. but thay have a dim view of USA boy comes to RF marries RF girl. i could be wrong about the USA stuff just what i have been told

vantru
29-10-2007, 16:20
England and NZ have very similur laws, both countries have the " demonstrate to the officers satisfaction a true and stable relationship" thay both use the push and pull formula to decide if to give a visa or not. IE more pull than push no visa.

Australia and the US both have relationship laws, if i remember correctly USA boy comes to russia meets girl goes home girl aplyes for visa go to the US get married. but thay have a dim view of USA boy comes to RF marries RF girl. i could be wrong about the USA stuff just what i have been told

I am italian and i hold a USA "green card"....In the USA if you marry a citizen there is no way the government refuses residency to an american spouse. Obviously you and your spouse will have an interview (in separate rooms) to see if u really live together and if it is not a fake marriage, but if u pass the interview u get the temp residency.....20 yrs ago to avoid this fake marriages they change the law and after marrying the USA spouse makes a petition for the other spouse and then a temp green card is given after 6 months, then after 2 yrs a new petition is made and after 6 more months the spouse of the Usa citizen gets the Perm Res....for a total of 3 yrs...I think this is enough time to discourage any faker

Kakashka
02-11-2007, 12:58
I was wondering if anyone hare on expat.ru has actually gone through the process of obatianing a temporary or permanent residency permit?

I would really be interested in knowing the entire process involved and if it's actually worth the trouble to get one?

Also if anyone could send me a message with regards to how a person goes about getting one?

Thank You...

Proper Bostonian
02-11-2007, 14:10
Does anyone know a web site where forms for temporary residency/vid na zhiteltsva can be downloaded along with a list of requirements, State authorized clinics, etc.?

Thanks for help.

Clean32
02-11-2007, 17:34
Does anyone know a web site where forms for temporary residency/vid na zhiteltsva can be downloaded along with a list of requirements, State authorized clinics, etc.?

Thanks for help.

The FMS/ovir web site, is all in russian, and i didnt notice any forms.


have a look about there is so much posted on this topic

Guest
02-11-2007, 18:16
Anyway be careful: You must use the blank forms that you get FROM THE MIGRATION SERVICE and NOT from the internet!

The FMS may refuse forms that do not come from them. And in 99.99999% of cases they do so.

The list of clinics must also be got from your LOCAL FMS office. I recommend you to not believe any private agency who sometimes (!) gives non correct information about the authorized clinics.

Bels
02-11-2007, 19:32
Does anyone know a web site where forms for temporary residency/vid na zhiteltsva can be downloaded along with a list of requirements, State authorized clinics, etc.?

Thanks for help.

Simply visit your ovir and get the forms. Are you married? Do you undertstand Russian. Can a Russian, partner or friend help you.

I certainly couldn't have done it on my own.

Guest
02-11-2007, 20:48
Do you undertstand Russian.

This makes me nervous every time :grind:

IMO a person who is not able to at least understand Russian to get the documents for the residence permit, should NOT get them! How can people just THINK to be a resident if they do not know the BASIS of the language? I am not able to understand this!!

Clean32
03-11-2007, 23:48
LOL guest maybe you should become an agent LOL

Judge
04-11-2007, 01:14
LOL guest maybe you should become an agent LOL

I bet Guest's head is ticking away now,he could make a mint by helping out expats.

Rustralian
04-11-2007, 03:15
This makes me nervous every time :grind:

IMO a person who is not able to at least understand Russian to get the documents for the residence permit, should NOT get them! How can people just THINK to be a resident if they do not know the BASIS of the language? I am not able to understand this!!

What is your problem Guest! :verymad:

I know dozens (and there are tens of thousands) of people in Australia who have lousy English (and many that have almost none) and I struggle to understand them. They speak Italian, Greek, Spanish, Mandarin, Russian, Macedonian, Croatian and whatever language is native to them, but they still live in Australia and they survive because there are plenty of other people that speak their language who do business with them or have shops that service them - it provides those people with a good living servicing a niche clientele. The rules have changed over recent years, but that is a way to limit migration as Australia doesn't need it (but they still allow in older people without an English competency test).

How many people in the UK and the US can't speak English - hell, in and around Los Angeles and those areas, an English speaking person is a rarity!

Russia has a very serious negative population growth (it was great to have Putin come out and basically ask Russians to "shag for the country" - what a guy :hooray:) and you need migrants. I would think that skilled and educated people that have jobs and make a good contribution to the ecomony (and spend most of their money in the Russian economy) - irrespective of their Russian language skills are what the country wants.

Every country (including Australia in the past) when they needed migration don't bother with language skills, just whether you are a criminal or carry any diseases, and if you don't fall foul of those two rules, and you are someone who can make a contribution to the country and the economy, then you were allowed in.

I have been here this time for 2 years and my Russian language skills are lousy. I have taken some courses [and paid Russians for those courses] but I have always done that at a time when I get busy and can't put proper time into learning a good enough vocabulary, let alone how to speak, and I had 70+ flights out of the country over the last 18 months, so I have been busy.

My wife speaks fluent English, nearly all her friends speak fluent English, I don't do business as such in Russia (my income is from offshore) and I have little need (not desire, but need) to be able to converse in Russian to survive here - and I drive and shop and do everything else without my wife being around and I get along fine - even with the Militsia (I actually found one of my local Militsia is a duel citizen - Australian and Russian, and his English sucks).

I rent an apartment here (more than one actually) and spend lots of money in Russia. We wanted a good china dinner set so did we buy one that is imported... no, we went to St Petersberg to the factory and got a Russian made one (and it is bloody great). We entertain my wife's friends with dinner parties using Australian beef and fresh seafood and Australian wines and every time I leave the country I have a bag full of souvenirs for family and friends and I bring my family over here for visits and we spend more money in Russia. I invest a substantial amount of my money into Russia and my wife and both I keep substantial savings in our local Russian bank accounts on fixed term deposit.

Quite frankly, I am f**cking good for the Russian economy and do more than many people I know to progress the Russian economy (including many Russians who send all their money offshore and spend more time living offshore than in Russia - I know, I help them do it) but you are telling me that I should NOT either want or be able to get temporary residency here because I cant walk down the street and have a chat to someone.

:bird:

Get off the f**king grass Guest! (Which means stop being a wanker). You talk and act like a racist that has some great view that the "Sovereign Democratic Russia" is too good for people from those "other" neanderthal countries. Your attitude is no different (less extreme for sure, but conceptually the same) than the skin heads that go around beating people to death because they don't "look Russian" enough, who cares what language they f**cking well speak!

A lot of the neanderthals from overseas that can't converse in Russian properly and that are married to Russians, actually do give a damn about what happens here, as they have family and friends here and those same neanderthals are people that will help make Russia either become a place where they want to stay and raise a family or give up and leave it to its Sovereign Democracy and all that bullshit.

I do want to speak fluent Russian, but I have been hamstrung by time and other issues. But I do make an effort to try to speak and I can make myself understood as best I can when I need to and people do not complain to me about the fact that I try - even if it is crap (and I make some embarrassing mistakes sometimes) :yikes:. I am also quite honestly, just crap at learning languages - after 3 years of Italian in high school I was great in theory tests, but all I could say was hello, goodbye, how are you and count to ten. :eh:

I don't give migrants in Australia a hard time if they can't speak English (even the Kiwi's and their fush and chups) - I might think they are dopey shits, but I don't hold it against them - they managed to migrate and good on them - when they learn they will learn.

So Guest, am I pissed off with your comments - you bet! I don't insult you or any other Russian in this forum (either specifically or generally) so don't try it with me. And yes, you did insult me, because I am one of those people that you don't want in YOUR country as we are not "good enough", because I can't speak Russian properly and I find that highly offensive and f**cking insulting.
:cussing:

Rustralian
04-11-2007, 03:30
By the way Guest. I find that your comments in here are very useful and helpful and have never had complaint with any of the things you have said before and I think that your contributions are good for the forum and people generally. :thumbsup:

But this particular issue, as you can see, gets right up my nose and I think you are wrong! There may be justification in what you say in some cases (but those cases are the exception not the norm) however, your comment makes the norm the wrong thing.

My post is only intended to criticise the hell out of you on this one issue and not generally. :respect:

Guest
04-11-2007, 09:40
LOL guest maybe you should become an agent LOL



I am already an... Agent :) Or better say that I was when younger :)

Guest
04-11-2007, 09:42
> Rustralian

> So Guest, am I pissed off with your comments

So do not read them, and be happy! I won't ever reply to your BS saying that I am a racist etc etc, you do not deserve I lose time with you :)

Clean32
04-11-2007, 10:26
> Rustralian

> So Guest, am I pissed off with your comments

So do not read them, and be happy! I won't ever reply to your BS saying that I am a racist etc etc, you do not deserve I lose time with you :)

Oh that was all fun, Guest I would not read into Rustralian's racist comments to much, I know where he is coming from, he should have written "racist like" I also understand where you are coming from, and to a point agree. I will try and explain
Both aussie and NZ are proud of is mixed culture, the diversity of there populations, adds to the strength of the economy and to the overall knowledge of the population.
But here is the crunch, both aussie and NZ, are inundated with people who wish to immigrate, I would even go as far as to say that Australia receives more immigration applications from Russia alone, than Russia receives from all off Europe.
In the past NZ didnít have the language requirement, that they have today, as a result, a large part of NZ can not speak English.
Today there is a high level of English required to immigrate to both NZ and Australia, but this requirement is only for immigrations, and not even for all members of the family.
Marriage to a Russian citizen, for example, does not have a language requirement. Business sponsor does not have a language requirement.
Immigration has.
now as Russia has not a large number of people wishing to immigrate here ( in comparison), how ever as the economy changes this to may change, and immigration policy may have to change as well.

personally in Yaroslavl, I have had much difficulty in locating a Russian teacher for myself, there just isnít the infrastructure to be able to learn, that in my mind brings up an other point, if there is a Russian language requirement, where and how should we learn??

Lastly Russia in my experience is about the only country I have lived and worked in where English is so limited.

My 10c worth, as I said I understand where Rustralian is coming from I also understand where Guest is coming from, both have good points, neither are completely correct.

Rustralian
05-11-2007, 02:42
As a point of interest Guest, even my wife (and she can speak fluent Russian - as she is Russian) thought that having Russian for temporary residency was ridiculous - she is also aware of how the rest of the world has dealt with temporary residency and just shook her head in dismay about you.

Fortunately not many Russians have narrow minds and very few suscribe to the Sovereign Democratic Xenophobic anti anything that doesn't speak and look Russian, Super Power theory.

:nut:

But maybe Clean is correct and you are not a racist (even though a language based prejudice would fall with the commonly accepted defintion of racist behaviour), but if you are not a racist - you are a certainly a prejudiced bigot, that thinks only people that speak Russian should be able to have any residency status in Russia.

Either way :vomit:

:)

Guest
05-11-2007, 08:33
As said earlier, think whatever you want :)

Bels
05-11-2007, 12:34
I for one think that Guest is a valid member. Perhaps a valid bridge between our English and his Russian. He has written some valid posts and we certainly need members like this for the coming uncertainy in the near future. What with all these new laws and the uncertainty of how expats are going over the coming few months?

Hopefully Judge (OOPS. I MEANT GUEST< this is an edit) is not put off by some negative comments. I for one appreciates what he posts in general.

Judge
05-11-2007, 12:53
I for one think that Guest is a valid member. Perhaps a valid bridge between our English and his Russian. He has written some valid posts and we certainly need members like this for the coming uncertainy in the near future. What with all these new laws and the uncertainty of how expats are going over the coming few months?

Hopefully Judge is not put off by some negative comments. I for one appreciates what he posts in general.

Far from it,i'm not put off at all....Whats gotta be done,gotta be done..
Me and the wife have delt with the kind people at our local OVIR,and it turned into a healthy slagging match,with doors being slammed in our faces and my wife banging on their doors and them giving in and letting us in,all good fun at the end of the day...
Like the good man Del Boy says....He who dares....he who dares..

Bels
05-11-2007, 13:00
This makes me nervous every time :grind:

IMO a person who is not able to at least understand Russian to get the documents for the residence permit, should NOT get them! How can people just THINK to be a resident if they do not know the BASIS of the language? I am not able to understand this!!

There are people who don't plan to live in Russia. For me, although I have travelled all over the world, Russia would have been the last place on Earth I would even think of living in. And many Brits think the same, there are comparitively few Brits here compared to the rest of the Worlds. In fact most Brits I know living in Britain thought I was crazy to come here.


However circumstances change, and I met by chance a Russian woman outside Russia. And we decided to get married here,where we decided to live here together as it's more convenient for the time being.

Now do you honestly expect many people in similar circumstances to suddenly be able to understand, apply and fill in a residency application in Russian? How long should it take to learn Russian in order to apply for such an application.

However if you have a good wife, of whom you should be able to communicate well with, and work together as a team to make the application I don't see that as a problem and to get on with our lives.

There are currently 280,000 migrating in to the UK, many of them won't speak English, but receive any benefits they must learn English. So they are provided with free lessons. They also have right to a translator.

Although I must admit the government wants to change their laws, and are looking at ideas from Australia.

Rustralian
05-11-2007, 23:39
I for one think that Guest is a valid member. Perhaps a valid bridge between our English and his Russian. He has written some valid posts and we certainly need members like this for the coming uncertainy in the near future. What with all these new laws and the uncertainty of how expats are going over the coming few months?

Hopefully Judge (OOPS. I MEANT GUEST< this is an edit) is not put off by some negative comments. I for one appreciates what he posts in general.


My post didn't say that Guest hadn't made any useful posts, in fact I clarified my post with a second post that stated that same thing. The difficulty is that Guest doesn't change his attitude. He even has other posts where he says if he was President (he would change the rules - and to make them much harder for Expats).

It is fine that he is involved in the forum using it to develop his own skills - but at the end of the day, he has an attitude that is very negative towards Expats and foreigners having any ease of entry into Russia.

He doesn't provide any logic for his reasoning or his attitude, because it is simply one based on a prejudice and they lack any logic or reasoning.

I don't like his prejudiced attitude towards expats.

Bels
05-11-2007, 23:52
My post didn't say that Guest hadn't made any useful posts, in fact I clarified my post with a second post that stated that same thing. The difficulty is that Guest doesn't change his attitude. He even has other posts where he says if he was President (he would change the rules - and to make them much harder for Expats).

It is fine that he is involved in the forum using it to develop his own skills - but at the end of the day, he has an attitude that is very negative towards Expats and foreigners having any ease of entry into Russia.

He doesn't provide any logic for his reasoning or his attitude, because it is simply one based on a prejudice and they lack any logic or reasoning.

I don't like his prejudiced attitude towards expats.

Hopefully my recent posts covers my agreements and disagreements with you both. Yes I get your point.

Clean32
06-11-2007, 00:01
My post didn't say that Guest hadn't made any useful posts, in fact I clarified my post with a second post that stated that same thing. The difficulty is that Guest doesn't change his attitude. He even has other posts where he says if he was President (he would change the rules - and to make them much harder for Expats).

It is fine that he is involved in the forum using it to develop his own skills - but at the end of the day, he has an attitude that is very negative towards Expats and foreigners having any ease of entry into Russia.

He doesn't provide any logic for his reasoning or his attitude, because it is simply one based on a prejudice and they lack any logic or reasoning.

I don't like his prejudiced attitude towards expats.

Guest is Ok, hes patriotic, and theres nothing wrong with that, but i also suspect that he has had some unfortunate and not so nice dealings with expats ( limited sample) just based on some old posts of his. but thats ok as well, as well all base our opinions on our exsperiances in life, and none of us have had the same life, so!!

Guest
06-11-2007, 12:35
And why should I "Change my attitude", dear Rustralian?

My attitude is to say "So is the law, accept it and welcome to Russia, or do not accept it and do not come in Russia". Is that a problem for you? Your beloved (Russian) wife also thinks the law is bad? Well there are polls at the Gosduma, she can be a candidate as a Russian citizen, then act to change the law.

I have nothing "against" expats, it is ridiculous to say so! I know it is harder to be a non Russian expat in Russia than a Russian expat in the US for example, that's why I have a lot of respect for expats who come and live here and try to know Russia and Russians. But my respect is as strong for these guys as I have really no sympathy for some other kind of expats who just come here to take money, sometimes at the border of the law, who criticize all and everybody, who do not try to socialize with Russians, etc.

And once more, people who are GUESTS in Russia should have one right: To live here in the respect of the law, be happy, etc etc BUT haven't the right to criticize the law. As a non-American in the US should not have any right to criticize the US law.

So about residency rules, the law is such, there are requirements. Comply with this and become a resident, or do not comply and do not become a resident. Is it so hard to understand?

In fact the shouts on this forum come from the fact that we decided to stop makiing ME visa used for what they were not done. Some guys here lived up to 10 years and more with visa, now we tell them "Stop", they are not happy. They JUST have to apply for residency, if it is so much a problem, well... THEY have a problem, for sure!



My post didn't say that Guest hadn't made any useful posts, in fact I clarified my post with a second post that stated that same thing. The difficulty is that Guest doesn't change his attitude. He even has other posts where he says if he was President (he would change the rules - and to make them much harder for Expats).

It is fine that he is involved in the forum using it to develop his own skills - but at the end of the day, he has an attitude that is very negative towards Expats and foreigners having any ease of entry into Russia.

He doesn't provide any logic for his reasoning or his attitude, because it is simply one based on a prejudice and they lack any logic or reasoning.

I don't like his prejudiced attitude towards expats.

Guest
06-11-2007, 12:37
Guest is Ok, hes patriotic, and theres nothing wrong with that, but i also suspect that he has had some unfortunate and not so nice dealings with expats ( limited sample) just based on some old posts of his. but thats ok as well, as well all base our opinions on our exsperiances in life, and none of us have had the same life, so!!

You are wrong on this, I had never bad deals with expats, or better to say that if there were so, the bad deals could have been done with Russians too!

And all relationship I have OFFline with expats are without any problem. Well I have to admit that I chose who I meet, that is why there is no problem :)

Rustralian
06-11-2007, 21:39
Well Guest your bigotry shows through again. :groan:

What laws are you talking about that require Expats to have Russian language skills at the present for obtaining temporary residency?

My post was about YOUR attitude of wanting it, not complaining about a law that does not exist. If there was such a law, then that would be it - it does not of mean it would be a good law. I was not happy with YOU saying that the determinative factor about any residency rights SHOULD BE whether you can converse fluently in Russian or not.

Your reply wanders off on a tangent tallking about things that have no relevance to what I said because you have no answer to the fact that you are a bigot and to divert from the fact that YOU want to see more difficulties for Expats to get any sort of residency rights in Russia.

And as for my beloved wife (and I note the disrespect intended in your post) which again underlies the prejudiced bigotry of your nature, why would she run for parliament in country where there is no such thing as democracy but only Presidential decree (not that that is such a bad thing in Russia, at the moment) - get real and pull your head out of your butt!

You should try running for parliament, you have the essential characteristics - not able to give forthright answers to questions and rambling on with false and meaningless replies to disguise your bigotry.

Rustralian
06-11-2007, 22:00
And why should I "Change my attitude", dear Rustralian?

And once more, people who are GUESTS in Russia should have one right: To live here in the respect of the law, be happy, etc etc BUT haven't the right to criticize the law.

In fact the shouts on this forum come from the fact that we decided to stop makiing ME visa used for what they were not done. Some guys here lived up to 10 years and more with visa, now we tell them "Stop", they are not happy. They JUST have to apply for residency, if it is so much a problem, well... THEY have a problem, for sure!

Maybe Guest is just an old school hard line Communist Party member playing on this forum.

People have NO RIGHT to criticise laws! :eh:

WE decided to stop making ME visa ....

WE tell them "Stop" ...

Sounds like Guest is fully supportive of all measure to make life hard for Expats by HIM and his Government, even those legitimately doing the right thing by Russia and her people ...

Sounds like a bigot to me :vomit:

Bels
06-11-2007, 22:10
And would guest like to have all the investment put into his country to stop. Russia is doing very nicely at the moment, does anyone want it to stop. Russia was in debt before this investment. Does Russia want this Iron curtain put up again. I don't think so.

So please welcome your guests. I think there was a massive migration of ex-soviets but unfortunately the laws also hit the westerners.

And no! we can't learn Russian in a day, maybe Spanish but not Russian.

Guest
06-11-2007, 22:31
So please welcome your guests. I think there was an attack on the massive migration of ex-soviets but unfortunately the laws also hit the westerners.

You become paranoiac!

Anyway maybe you would like the "massive attack" on the "ex-soviet" and not on expats? IF there was a massive attack of course. You are so racist than you make a difference with an English teacher who wants to teach English in Moscow, and a Georgian or Azeri who wants to teach his language in Moscow?

You are a racist!

Guest
06-11-2007, 22:32
[BS]

As promised I don't even reply to you :) JUST one thing, if you saw disrespect on the "beloved wife" words, just stop to play the victim, this was no disrespect at all. But I feel that you LOVE to be a victim. Maybe a bit SM games, with you as the M, of course...?

Bels
06-11-2007, 22:34
You become paranoiac!

Anyway maybe you would like the "massive attack" on the "ex-soviet" and not on expats? IF there was a massive attack of course. You are so racist than you make a difference with an English teacher who wants to teach English in Moscow, and a Georgian or Azeri who wants to teach his language in Moscow?

You are a racist!

Sorry attack wasn't intended, a massive immigration would be the more suitable word. And I am most certainly not racist.

Guest
06-11-2007, 22:39
Oh and I will give an information: Residence permits will change in the "form", they will be different, and ALL residence permits will have to be changed. Soon.

Bels
06-11-2007, 22:59
Oh and I will give an information: Residence permits will change in the "form", they will be different, and ALL residence permits will have to be changed. Soon.

No doubt they will change, let's hope they will be professional and sensible about it. Because so far they keep saying they want to make it easier for us, yet it becomes one big pain in the ass.

Rustralian
06-11-2007, 23:47
As promised I don't even reply to you :) JUST one thing, if you saw disrespect on the "beloved wife" words, just stop to play the victim, this was no disrespect at all. But I feel that you LOVE to be a victim. Maybe a bit SM games, with you as the M, of course...?

At least we are starting to get to see the true nature of our Guest.

Any challenges to his thin and fragile Soviet era Communist views about those evil foreigners trespassing in HIS country and he turns to sexual innuendo and perversity.

Was that part of your Stalinist training - Part I of the Genocide for Soviets Handbook? Lesson 1: When upset and intellectually unable to cope, turn to perversity and innuendo.

Russians love their "salat" (which isn't bad actually) and Guest is certainly a tosser!

GMC
07-11-2007, 02:26
Hello nice to chat with you. Why is the government making it so hard for us to live here? New visa laws, registration, Drivers license renewal, double taxes etc.? Also can you tell me why children were giving nazi salutes at the UNITY PARADE? Don't people remember that the nazi's wanted to remove russia from the map and make the remaining people in russia slaves?

Thanks for your reply this is not sarcasm. Just want to hear your viewpoint.
I have been here for 4 years and the situation is becoming anti-everyone.
Russia is for Russians? Sounds a little paranoid and typical of an inferiority complex.

I have lots of good friends here that don't have these views, but why is this type of stuff tacitly approved on tv and in print.

Thanks GMC

ezik
07-11-2007, 02:45
:evilgrin: I'd like to see Russian explore and exploit their oil & gas resources without any foreign expertise. Just imagine that! :D [EDIT: serious sarcasm alert here]

Rustralian
07-11-2007, 03:45
The Russian Government attitude is very much like "Inventor Syndrome".

The Inventor has a great idea but has no idea how to commercialise it or develop it into something more than a concept and and idea. [The Russian Government had a great country with huge potential but no idea how to make it work in the real world].

The investor brings in business experts as partners to develop the technology, obtain patents, raise seed capital, commercialise and exploit the great idea. [The Russian Government allowed Westerners to come in and invest into the Country, bring in knowhow and technology, working capital etc to help the country move forward].

The Inventor then sees HIS idea can make (or is making) money and he sees that HE will be sharing HIS profits from HIS idea with other people ... and why ... it was all HIS idea, not theirs, why should they have any share of HIS profits and HE decides HE does not need them as it is HIS idea that is making the money, not their input and HE then proceeds to kick them out as HE doesn't need them any more...

It is about then that 9 times out of 10 the business falls in a heap and no-one gets anything.

Do we see any similarity with the behaviour of certain Governments!? :agree:

Guest
07-11-2007, 09:43
My dad died in what was called a "gulag", he committed the crime to not be a good communist. So be sure I appreciate your post at his real value, and I will look at your case more closely now.




At least we are starting to get to see the true nature of our Guest.

Any challenges to his thin and fragile Soviet era Communist views about those evil foreigners trespassing in HIS country and he turns to sexual innuendo and perversity.

Was that part of your Stalinist training - Part I of the Genocide for Soviets Handbook? Lesson 1: When upset and intellectually unable to cope, turn to perversity and innuendo.

Russians love their "salat" (which isn't bad actually) and Guest is certainly a tosser!

Guest
07-11-2007, 09:59
Hello!

Nazi salutes should of course be banned, but if I am right you in the US also have your nazis, right? The Oklahoma city bombing was only one of their actions, remember? And you see, I do not speak about American nazis, just because I know they are a small minority, like in Russia. So thank you to point your finger to them, it is an important point but it is not representative of Russia.

About taxes. Russians are more than happy to pay 13% on income tax. How much do Americans pay in the US? I do not know about double taxation, but I am sure there are agreements to avoid this with your country, as there are with many countries. Maybe you could give more details and I can forward your case to a friend working in the tax service.

New visa law: Until now, foreigners did whatever they wanted to do with visa. ME visa were NEVER attended to work, that didn't make ME visas users to work! I know many cases, you probably too, everybody knows.
So now, Russia decided to become a bit less "bardak" with visa, and to apply the laws. The laws have still LESS restrictions than the US law: How long does it take to a Russian to get a US Green card? For sure MORE than for an American to get a Russian residence permit for 3 years.

In fact you are always happy to criticize Russia for its "bardak" and to laugh about it, BUT in the same time you are happy to be able to violate the law (for the ME visa usage, I mean) if you are convenient with it. I know that it is the same in every country, a few people violate the migration laws but it is natural that the country reacts.

Now, do NOT think that Russia wants to send "нах" all foreigners, you would completely mistake! Russia just wants 1- make rules more "logical" and looking like the western rules (in WHICH country you can live with a one year visa, 5 or 10 years?). And 2- be sure that people respect the rules.

Anyway about this ME visa case, you will see that it is more convenient to live with a residence permit than with a visa! Just get one, it is easier than what you can read here and there, and after you are QUIET! No more twice a year (expensive) trips, you can quietly LIVE, and LEGALLY WORK here!





Hello nice to chat with you. Why is the government making it so hard for us to live here? New visa laws, registration, Drivers license renewal, double taxes etc.? Also can you tell me why children were giving nazi salutes at the UNITY PARADE? Don't people remember that the nazi's wanted to remove russia from the map and make the remaining people in russia slaves?

Thanks for your reply this is not sarcasm. Just want to hear your viewpoint.
I have been here for 4 years and the situation is becoming anti-everyone.
Russia is for Russians? Sounds a little paranoid and typical of an inferiority complex.

I have lots of good friends here that don't have these views, but why is this type of stuff tacitly approved on tv and in print.

Thanks GMC

Rustralian
07-11-2007, 12:41
My dad died in what was called a "gulag", he committed the crime to not be a good communist. So be sure I appreciate your post at his real value, and I will look at your case more closely now.

It is very sad that your father died in a gulag, like the many millions of others that died in similar unwarranted circumstances.

I am glad that you will "look at your [my] case more closely now"'.

Is that Lesson 2 from the same handbook. When Perversity and Innuendo fail, turn to making threats and try to intimidate.

Your reaction is exactly what is expected from some Stalinist sycophant - I feel sorry for your father's memory, when his son has a mentality the same as those that killed him. You obviously learnt a lot!

Rustralian
07-11-2007, 13:33
Hello!

Nazi salutes should of course be banned, but if I am right you in the US also have your nazis, right? The Oklahoma city bombing was only one of their actions, remember? And you see, I do not speak about American nazis, just because I know they are a small minority, like in Russia. So thank you to point your finger to them, it is an important point but it is not representative of Russia.

This is the thing with Guest, he only sees and reads what he wants to see and his answer is to point the finger somewhere else (maybe he is a Russian politician, he reacts the same way). Yes there are nazi's in the US and in almost every country in the world, in some shape or form. The point that you made GMC is that they are tacitly (if not close to overtly) approved by the Russian Government. That is because those same people helped set most of those youth groups to encourage the anti-West and Russia for Russians attitude and now they have created a little problem for themselves, as the little monsters that they created are a little too much in the public eye and killing too many people that "don't look Russian enough".

In the US when the Government wants to divert attention and bolster support for itself they generally have a war somewhere (pretty much everyone accepts that these days and it is a bit of a laugh). In Russia they get on the anti-West crusade and Russia for Russians and Sovereign Democracy and why not use the Ruble as a world currency (and now that their finances are back to being healthy, they may even start wars as well, who knows).



In fact you are always happy to criticize Russia for its "bardak" and to laugh about it, BUT in the same time you are happy to be able to violate the law (for the ME visa usage, I mean) if you are convenient with it. I know that it is the same in every country, a few people violate the migration laws but it is natural that the country reacts.

Of course you are a terrible person GMC for breaking the ME visa laws - that is if you even have one. But why not just paint everyone with the same broad brush stroke - evil Westerners that break the Russian laws!

Of course while it is true that plenty of people have undoubtedly used ME visas for the wrong thing, Russia has been very happy to allow them to do that for the last 10 years as it wanted their financial contribution to the economy, but now that has changed and Russia must do something about those evil Westerner's.


Now, do NOT think that Russia wants to send "нах" all foreigners, you would completely mistake! Russia just wants 1- make rules more "logical" and looking like the western rules (in WHICH country you can live with a one year visa, 5 or 10 years?). And 2- be sure that people respect the rules.

More logical ... a law is passed effecting limitless numbers of people and it is passed and made into law without any consultation, any advance warning, any explanation, any procedures or rules and without even the people who are supposedly going to implement it, knowing anything about it ... that is very logical indeed.

The law is being made more Western looking - that is a bit of a joke, Western countries have laws that control how laws are implemented and introduced when they effect lots of people, even foreigners. New immigrations laws do not just appear overnight and make radical changes to the way peoples lives are conducted.

It seems much more a case of just changing the laws to make it harder for Westerners as part of the general Russia for Russians and we don't need Westerners trend.

I had never actually thought of modern Russia as being "not part of Europe and the rest of the Western world" until the Russian government told me that I did - strange that! :eh:


Anyway about this ME visa case, you will see that it is more convenient to live with a residence permit than with a visa! Just get one, it is easier than what you can read here and there, and after you are QUIET! No more twice a year (expensive) trips, you can quietly LIVE, and LEGALLY WORK here!

Of course if you are not violating the ME Visa and what it was issued for, then why do you need to change what you are doing ... :eh:

Guest
07-11-2007, 14:09
Was that part of your Stalinist training - Part I of the Genocide for Soviets Handbook? Lesson 1: When upset and intellectually unable to cope, turn to perversity and innuendo.


Dear David, it seems that you also love this, as you wrote yourself:

Activities Enjoyed: 24/7 (Total Power Exchange); Age Play; Anal Sex; Ass Play; Blindfolds; Bondage; Breast/Nipple Torture, Clamps, etc.; Candle Wax; Chains; Chinese Balls/Ben Wa Balls/Anal Beads; Collar and Lead/Leash; Depilation/Shaving; Dildos (Handheld & Strap-ons); Discipline; Domination; Exhibitionism/Sex In Public; Gangbangs; Handcuffs/Shackles; High Heels; Lace/Lingerie; Latex; Leather; Making Home "Movies"; Masks; Masochism; Massage; Master/Slave; Masturbation; Mutual Masturbation; Nipples; Oral Fixation; Oral Sex; Pain; Pantyhose/Stockings; Participating in Erotic Photography; Power Exchange; Retifism (Shoes or Boots); Rimming; Rubber; Sadism; Sex During Menstruation; Talking Dirty; Tongue Fetish; Toys; Vibrators; Voyeurism; Whips


This is from your personal page here (http://alt.com/p/member.cgi?mid=1276188_81152)


Can you explain me what is Breast/Nipple Torture, Clamps, etc.; Candle Wax; Chains; Chinese Balls/Ben Wa Balls/Anal Beads;

Looks a bit strange...

Also (From your same page): My Ideal Person: I am looking to find a willing Sub. You can be fiery, as I like a challenge, but you must enjoy the sexual pleasures of a submissive and be prepared to adopt the role properly and fully.

SORRY I was wrong, you are not the M in SM games, but the S!

Last (for now), you saw "disrespect" when I used the words "beloved wife" about your wife.... May I hope that you have more respect for Her than your ad above can make think about the respect you have for girls in general?

Have a good day :)

Rob26
07-11-2007, 14:18
Oh dear as with many things on this website this has all got out of hand and very off topic.

I do not care what somebodies sexual orientation is.

This thread needs to be locked :agree:

Rustralian
07-11-2007, 15:10
That is fine Guest and I can even tell you the name of the Russian lady I first wrote it with (not that I will as you will most probably stalk her, which is the last things she needs - a psycho Stalinist stalking her). She even showed me all the Russian language for it - I still think she made most of the words up as I couldn't find them in my Russian dictionary - we both had a great deal of fun writing them up and she had a much better profile, with some great lingerie photos in hers. Red wine is great for more than just assisting in heart disease :)

But you wouldn't know about that. :(

You just show yourself for what you are - our resident Stalinist.

You never deal with any of the actual issues presented to you, just try to divert from the fact that you are a sad little Stalinist that doesn't like foreigners in HIS Russia.

Rustralian
07-11-2007, 15:21
And if you are reading Clean, out of interest to you,the photo was taken outside the new Hockey stadium they built in Yaroslavl, the first snows after they finished the bowling alley inside the stadium - I never got to see a hockey game played there though.

Bels
07-11-2007, 15:32
So, have we managed to find a decent agency for Residency yet :shame:

And no! you don't have to know Russian :o

That's where the argument started, err! wasn't it. It's amazing of how we all manage to go off course.

Rustralian
07-11-2007, 16:33
Actually Guest has inadvertently raised a valid point with using that website. Once you write in a profile you can't delete it - the delete function doesn't actually delete anything :duhhhh:

sarag
13-11-2007, 13:40
Hi - I've been looking through the posts, and I'm a little confused about the best option for someone in my situation, would be very grateful for some advice.
So, I'm an American, have been in Russia for about two years, first on a student visa and then a business visa. My Russian fiance and I are planning to get married in March. I would like to stay in Russia until the end of the summer, at which point I'll be returning to the U.S. for grad school, and my husband will stay in Russia for another year before (hopefully) joining me in the U.S. During that year, I will come to Russia to visit, and vice versa. I have a business visa that expires Jan 31, and with the new regulations, I can't get another one.
1. Does anyone think it is worthwhile to try for temporary residency, as even after I move back to the U.S., I'll be flying back here a lot to visit family, or is that not reasonable? Is the six-month wait period pretty standard?
2. If no, has anyone had experience getting a homestay visa? Restrictions, timeline for receiving visa? There's a chance of me getting a work permit, but I don't want to risk it.
I'd appreciate any advice.

Bels
13-11-2007, 17:48
Hi - I've been looking through the posts, and I'm a little confused about the best option for someone in my situation, would be very grateful for some advice.
So, I'm an American, have been in Russia for about two years, first on a student visa and then a business visa. My Russian fiance and I are planning to get married in March. I would like to stay in Russia until the end of the summer, at which point I'll be returning to the U.S. for grad school, and my husband will stay in Russia for another year before (hopefully) joining me in the U.S. During that year, I will come to Russia to visit, and vice versa. I have a business visa that expires Jan 31, and with the new regulations, I can't get another one.
1. Does anyone think it is worthwhile to try for temporary residency, as even after I move back to the U.S., I'll be flying back here a lot to visit family, or is that not reasonable? Is the six-month wait period pretty standard?
2. If no, has anyone had experience getting a homestay visa? Restrictions, timeline for receiving visa? There's a chance of me getting a work permit, but I don't want to risk it.
I'd appreciate any advice.

I'm still a little confused about new laws coming in affecting Brits and Americans by the end of the year. But if there is a restriction where you stay 90 days and have to stay out 90 days then the better option might be to go for the personal invitation, where you will gorlfriend will sort out for you at OVIR. Yes you will have to leave the country every three months to renew it. We have all had to put up with this in the past, but perhaps not so often if we had the original business visa.

Yes, I believe it's essential that you go for residency as soon as possible, and if you have to exit the country the country each time while waiting for the application then that's what we all have to put up with.

I'm afraid the residency will take the maximum six months, if anything the staff are under greater pressure in processing this application, due to an increase in applicants.

sarag
14-11-2007, 13:46
Thanks for your reply. Just want to clarify - there is no limit on getting the homestay visas, and people generally don't have trouble applying for consecutive three-month visas? And, can you do same-day/ a couple days expediting for those visas? I'm waiting for replies from visa agencies, but would like to know how it goes in practice...
Also, you don't happen to know what my boyfriend has to ask for at the ovir, do you? Is it just lichnoye priglasheniye?
Thanks again,
Sara

Guest
14-11-2007, 17:53
The rule "90 days in the last 180 days" applies to ALL visa. For example if a visitor stays 3 months with a 3 months visa, he can not go out and enter immediately again. He will have to wait 90 days outside Russia.

Bels
14-11-2007, 18:58
Thanks for your reply. Just want to clarify - there is no limit on getting the homestay visas, and people generally don't have trouble applying for consecutive three-month visas? And, can you do same-day/ a couple days expediting for those visas? I'm waiting for replies from visa agencies, but would like to know how it goes in practice...
Also, you don't happen to know what my boyfriend has to ask for at the ovir, do you? Is it just lichnoye priglasheniye?
Thanks again,
Sara

Yes that is what your boyfiriend should ask for at ovir. Once you have this invitation you can apply direct to the Russian Embassy in whatever area you chose. And you can have sameday service. Well , you can in London Russian Embassy. I dont' see why you would need an agency.

Rusguest
14-11-2007, 23:16
The rule "90 days in the last 180 days" applies to ALL visa. For example if a visitor stays 3 months with a 3 months visa, he can not go out and enter immediately again. He will have to wait 90 days outside Russia.

Please check your information.
The law states that the 90 day rule applies only to multi entry visas.
Постановление от 4 октября 2007 г. N 635 (http://www.government.ru/government/governmentactivity/rfgovernmentdecisions/archive/2007/10/05/4833186.htm)
Please refer to point no.5
5. Пункт 17 дополнить абзацем следующего содержания:
"Суммарный срок пребывания иностранного гражданина в Российской Федерации по многократной визе устанавливается при оформлении визы уполномоченным государственным органом, но не более чем 90 дней в течение каждого периода в 180 дней, за исключением случаев, предусмотренных настоящим Положением."

Bels
14-11-2007, 23:20
And surely doesn't apply to personal invitation? 90 days yes, but you can re apply again on sameday?

sarag
15-11-2007, 15:43
Thanks for the input, everybody. Anybody else want to weigh in on whether we can apply for consecutive homestay visas without waiting 90 days outside the country?

maori
15-11-2007, 17:23
Its getting spooky over here......
But let's say "No" to racism:bowdown:

Bels
15-11-2007, 20:49
Thanks for the input, everybody. Anybody else want to weigh in on whether we can apply for consecutive homestay visas without waiting 90 days outside the country?

I assume when you state Homestay you are referring to private invitation. This has always been the preferred visa for applying for residency. No 90 days in and out, you reapply same day when expired. I would be shocked if someone ever has had bad experience of 90 days in and out with this one, or will have in the future. It would make the application of residency very awkward indeed.

Pavel_Pyat
02-12-2007, 15:33
And would guest like to have all the investment put into his country to stop. Russia is doing very nicely at the moment, does anyone want it to stop. Russia was in debt before this investment. Does Russia want this Iron curtain put up again. I don't think so.

So please welcome your guests. I think there was a massive migration of ex-soviets but unfortunately the laws also hit the westerners.

And no! we can't learn Russian in a day, maybe Spanish but not Russian.

Woo, hold on there. That looks to me to be also bigoted and elitist at the same time. So ex-soviet migrants should be rejected while westerners shouldn't be?

I'm a westerner who had immigrant parents. I'm acutely aware of both sides in this country and other countries. The truth be told, in Europe and the US (and Russia), immigration issues are class biased using national, ethnic and racial identification. Germany's problems with the Turks, "they don't assimilate. they don't even speak the language." France problems with Algerians, "they don't assimilate." But Algerians do speak French. Russia problems with ex-soviet countries, "they're criminals and vagrants." What they all have in common is that they are lower class (economically). All market oriented societies have this class because they do the hard labor jobs that the economy needs to progress. There importance is no less important the "westerners".

As for the new rules, well, Russia has implemented these rules to your particular way of thinking. If it's economic biasing, then the foreign westerners we want now are the ones who can pass a certain economic threshold to stay in this country. because we just don't need the guys who are under this threshold because we now can provide more jobs to Russian nationals below this threshold, because we have been training our nationals for this eventuality. We are building our middle class. Just as when any country in the world has it needs fulfilled by a low class immigrant workforce, they start to curb immigration to that class in general. Well, they have their fill of foreign middle class now.

I'm middle class from my western country, but in this country, I'm treated as upper middle class. Of course, I enjoy that feeling, but I don't take it for granted. And like I said, there's this elitist feeling from many westerners here toward the Russians. And the indignation coming out from this forum from westerners proves it. For the lower cl**** you will never hear indignation, just desperation and worry. The visa regulations is a natural course as the economy expands in this country.

Bels
02-12-2007, 15:53
Woo, hold on there. That looks to me to be also bigoted and elitist at the same time. So ex-soviet migrants should be rejected while westerners shouldn't be?

I'm a westerner who had immigrant parents. I'm acutely aware of both sides in this country and other countries. The truth be told, in Europe and the US (and Russia), immigration issues are class biased using national, ethnic and racial identification. Germany's problems with the Turks, "they don't assimilate. they don't even speak the language." France problems with Algerians, "they don't assimilate." But Algerians do speak French. Russia problems with ex-soviet countries, "they're criminals and vagrants." What they all have in common is that they are lower class (economically). All market oriented societies have this class because they do the hard labor jobs that the economy needs to progress. There importance is no less important the "westerners".

As for the new rules, well, Russia has implemented these rules to your particular way of thinking. If it's economic biasing, then the foreign westerners we want now are the ones who can pass a certain economic threshold to stay in this country. because we just don't need the guys who are under this threshold because we now can provide more jobs to Russian nationals below this threshold, because we have been training our nationals for this eventuality. We are building our middle class. Just as when any country in the world has it needs fulfilled by a low class immigrant workforce, they start to curb immigration to that class in general. Well, they have their fill of foreign middle class now.

I'm middle class from my western country, but in this country, I'm treated as upper middle class. Of course, I enjoy that feeling, but I don't take it for granted. And like I said, there's this elitist feeling from many westerners here toward the Russians. And the indignation coming out from this forum from westerners proves it. For the lower cl**** you will never hear indignation, just desperation and worry. The visa regulations is a natural course as the economy expands in this country.

I think you've taken my quote out of context, as it was answering an above post it now looks totally wrong and yes indignant on it's own right.

What we are all primaraly doing here on threads like this one is trying to live here properly and help others get their residential visa. We're not moaning about this country, (well most of the time :) ) What we are trying to do is get it sorted out and live legally in this country.

Lets not forget most of us interested in residency are married to Russians and get on very well with Russians.

And I'm not complaining, I've got my residency and I've got nothing to worry about :)