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Marshmallow
23-10-2007, 00:09
Can you find a decent bagel shop in Moscow or are they available in grocery shops?

elis
23-10-2007, 06:06
I'm not there yet--but my research indicates that you might want to seek out: bibliki / boobliki / бублики ???--the Russian equivalent of a bagel. But it looks as though the geographic-culinary advance of the bagel was from Poland toward the US--so perhaps what you end up finding might be different from what you expect . . .

Benedikt
25-10-2007, 19:33
one around belaruskaya and the other on tverskaya, both have gone the way of the dodo.for russian tastes a bagel was to 'tough' after all it is fairly heavy dough,first cooked and than baked.and 'expat' support, or rather the lack of it, was not enough to keep them going or even expanding.
like with so many things in town.expats are becrying that there is not this or that but when it opens,or becomes available, the support is just not there.....
the russian 'bublik' is just a 'normal' white bread dough with some poppy seeds sprinkled on top.has nothing in common with a bagel...

Kyrgyz
25-10-2007, 23:04
A donut shop right outside the Arbatskaya (dark blue line) exit has some decent bagels, and donuts too. "Donni Donuts", or something like that.

Proper Bostonian
26-10-2007, 09:04
Donni Donuts is pretty bad. Havent' seen a bagel in Moscow since Canadian Bagel shop closed. Personally, I supported them. I think their problem was they had such a small, uncomfortable place. It was unpleasant to eat there. If their intention was to be a bagel take-out, then the reverse was true - too large a place. Certainly, their rent on Tverskaya must have been too high to support a bagel shop in this town. Too bad. Their bagels couldn't compare to NY bagels (Canadian, afterall), but it was nice having them here. Really miss bagels & English muffins. Am not prepared to learn how to make my own.

Benedikt is correct. A Russian boobliki has absolutely nothing in common with a bagel!

Someone open a NY style deli, please!

doxie
28-10-2007, 12:36
And Canadian Bagel on Tverskaya was not the first attempt at bagels. Back in the early 90's there was a restaurant called TrenMos where Vanil stands today. They had a bagel takeaway there for 6months to a year. It did not work out. Needless to say, they were nowhere near proper NY bagels, but they were a decent effort. Seems to me the problem was not unlike most fast food places in Moscow - it wasn't fast enough. And the "russified" presentation put off foreigners, while the concept was unfamiliar to the Russians. (For instance, if you ordered a simple bagel with cream cheese, they would serve it open faced in one of those styrofoam take-away sectional boxes, with condiments such as sliced pickle or mustard in side sections. It also took the counter person ages to spread that shmear.

Russian boobliki have nothing in common with a NY bagel.

KaluginsInMoscow
28-10-2007, 22:46
I've seen some at Globus Gourmet.

Proper Bostonian
29-10-2007, 08:03
I remember TrenMos well. Jeff from NJ had quite a good business at that time. Wonder what ever happened to him...

Benedikt
29-10-2007, 10:46
I remember TrenMos well. Jeff from NJ had quite a good business at that time. Wonder what ever happened to him...

..but back than he had to leave rather fast ( more or less over night, after a fall out with his local 'partners') TRENMOS was the first real 'foreign' joint venture in the restaurant business, good food, decent prices and good ,friendly service. to bad jeff had 'partners' that did not understand anything but wanted to have EVERYTHING.
same way as the Arbat Irish House, the foreigners left and the place went down or closed....
that were the good old days back than..

doxie
29-10-2007, 16:42
I remember meeting Jeff years later and he said that he had problems with his partners, exactly what you say here. Yes, TrenMos (Trenton-Moscow) was the first of its kind. Those were fun days! Am glad there are still people whose memory stretches that far.

Getting back to bagels - I tried to make them at home, waiting for them to rise, then boiling them, then baking - it was awful. I always wondered what the trick was with bagels. Anyone know?

Benedikt
31-10-2007, 11:42
they are you say. make the dough, wait until they rise, than boil, than bake them. it is a long and tedious process, the only things to make it easier in the trade, we have bread addatives that make dough rise faster, bake even,gives it a better appearance, but these things are mainly being used if you have problems with your flour (low gluten content, so you will get a lousy dough...)
otherwise the making of bagles has not changed since abraham's times....:agree:

doxie
04-11-2007, 00:37
Benedikt, I do not mind the tedium of waiting for the dough to rise, I'm defeated by the result - they look like proper bagels, but they sure don't taste like them. There must be a trick, because in NYC, the place where you get some of the best bagels in the world, there are great bagels and really crappy ones. Are you saying that all depends on gluten content in the dough? Do you, perhaps, have a recipe for proper bagels?

tzaritsa
04-11-2007, 22:18
Can you find a decent bagel shop in Moscow or are they available in grocery shops?

In "Kofein" cafe they have some kind of bagels and donats. I don`t know how close their taste to the NY and Canadian ones, but I like. Cafe is bad and cofee is bad too. I know 2 of those - at Maroseika street metro Kitai-Gorod and in Ramstor shop on the second floor at Beliaevo metro, orange line. They also have take away service.

Benedikt
05-11-2007, 12:05
maybe try this recipe and the way she is doing it. also use only NORDIC flour it has a high gluten content and will give a nice elastic dough.


Bagel Recipe - Bagels and Related Bread Recipes (http://www.dianaskitchen.com/page/recipes04/a40226l.htm)

Clean32
05-11-2007, 12:16
Intresting about the flour, i read here some where about the flour being low in gluten, but in Yaro i doint have access to many imported products, all my cakes and scons came out a bit ? Grainy? so i have been adding 1 tsp of Krakmall, to 1 cup of flower. I also us a pakt of baking powder as 1 tsp. things come out a lot better now.

any othere sajestions ??

doxie
06-11-2007, 00:14
Thanks Benedikt for the recipe and flour suggestion. Will definitely try Nordic. Any idea where I can find molasses in Moscow. I looked it up and it's called 'patoka', only I don't think anyone sells it in central Moscow. I found another bagel recipe that calls for it.

Benedikt
06-11-2007, 14:14
Thanks Benedikt for the recipe and flour suggestion. Will definitely try Nordic. Any idea where I can find molasses in Moscow. I looked it up and it's called 'patoka', only I don't think anyone sells it in central Moscow. I found another bagel recipe that calls for it.
by 'kvass concentrate ' ( Квастого Сусла )in 550 gr glasses, it goes for 20 rubles i think..
try first with a small recipe batch, you might need get used to it...

Benedikt
06-11-2007, 14:24
and out in the tundra and taiga we improvise. i was working in siberia, some 10 years ago....
try to get the most expensive flour, it is also the best.. maybe you find SOKOLNIKI 4th Melnitsa Kombinat? Unfortunately about the low gluten content there is nothing you can do. in the kitchen i can get from a company called IREX a bread additive called PANIFARIN that is a flour 'enhancer'..
do some googling, maybe you find a company there, after all Yaroslavl is not the sticks....
unfortunately since i am 'metric' i rather not comment on the 'spoons' of baking powder. but it seems to me on the low side? but for that you can check out the net for a conversion table.also WHAT brand of baking powder are you using?
if yo ucan get or se, try Dr.Oetker (German) or Haas (Austrian). not because they are german or austrian, but they do it already since some nearly 100 years so they must do it right....
good luck with your bagles!!!!!!!!!!

doxie
07-11-2007, 12:50
thanks for all your great suggestions. i think i'm okay with molasses - a friend is bringing some today from the UK. although it's dark treacle, i've researched that i can use that, only a slightly smaller amount than would molasses.

i bought Nordic flour yesterday, so will give it a try. also, doesn't kneading release/increase the glutinous quality of dough?

again, thanks. if bagels are a success, will report here and post the recipe.

Proper Bostonian
07-11-2007, 13:11
If bagels are a succes you can start selling them :-))

doxie
08-11-2007, 18:30
an idea! i've been thinking of starting my own business. perhaps can use this site to promote! :))

doxie
09-11-2007, 15:13
Am happy to report that I have made a pretty decent NY style bagel. It's not H&H or the one I had in Brooklyn once, but they are pretty damn decent. Here's a recipe link if anyone cares:

Cooks Recipes | Authentic New York-Style Homemade Bagels Recipe (http://www.cooksrecipes.com/bread/homemade-bagels-recipe.html)

I used black treacle in slightly lesser qty but can taste it. Malt syrup, I suspect, would be better. And I don't like the corn meal on the bottom. Plus it smells funny when it is baking.

bashworth
02-12-2007, 12:42
when i made bagels, i didn't have molasses so I made an egg bagel recipe. It tasted fine. When i tried to make another kind (cinnamon raisin) it tasted nasty.

Also, they have bagels lots of places, but i've never tried them - the bakery at stockmann, on the menu at kofe haus ("chicken begl sandwich"), and i think i saw them at yeliseyevsky yesterday. and then there is doni donik. i haven't tried any of them, but i imagine one of them is decent.

doxie
03-12-2007, 00:43
There are no proper bagels in Moscow. On occasion you find ones that look like they would be, but they are not. They even taste good, but more like fresh bread that looks like a bagel. Anyway, the recipe I posted earlier is really good. Apparently Stockman's sells Black Treacle AND molasses (as per recent report from a friend). If using black treacle, cut the amount by 1/3 of the one listed in recipe and double the sugar.

I also made cinnamon raisin using the same recipe. They were much tougher to knead, but it was well worth it. They were delicious, especially toasted with cream cheese!

And I did use Nordic flour as per Benedikt's advice. The higher gluten content seems to give the bagels a proper texture.

Old Believer
26-12-2008, 09:00
maybe try this recipe and the way she is doing it. also use only NORDIC flour it has a high gluten content and will give a nice elastic dough.

Chef Benedikt - thanks for your suggestion! Without it, I fear the overproofed rye bread I made yesterday for Christmas dinner would have turned out more like a pizza. I had been unsuccessfully searching through a number of stores looking for higher gluten flour, and Nordic (at 13% protein, as opposed to 10.3% for most Russian brands) was just what the doctor ordered. On my next trip back to the US, I will pick up some "vital gluten" to use an additive in order to kick up the cheap stuff to the desired 14% for bagels, but for Novy God I will try my hand at bagels using Nordic.

bluesurf
03-05-2009, 19:55
Someone once said that it has to do with the water... Moscow water will never be right for making bagels. So, what is different between the Hudson and the Moscow rivers??

katbat
05-05-2009, 15:40
where did you find baking powder? I have found baking soda - but no powder.

Benedikt
06-05-2009, 11:05
where did you find baking powder? I have found baking soda - but no powder.

разрыхлитель теста , a littel yellow orange packet with a gugelhupf on the front. 1 pkt,10 gr, is enough for 1 kgr flour.
definitely ever gastronom or supermarket ahs them.
SHOULD you not find it, take 10 gr normal soda, add 2-3 drops of 6% white household winegar. when the bubbles have dissapeared, this is your, a little bit more crude, form of baking power. but do not use to much as the soda will leave an aftertaste in your cakes or breadrolls.....

RSvoboda
30-11-2009, 22:27
I just came back from NYC again and really miss lax bagel a lot here. After 4 years in Moscow, I haven't seen any place selling those, not even Azbuka Vkusa or Globus Gourmet. Anyone saw something recently? I noticed this discussion and though about refreshing the topic for end 2009 :-)

Benedikt
01-12-2009, 04:44
I just came back from NYC again and really miss lax bagel a lot here. After 4 years in Moscow, I haven't seen any place selling those, not even Azbuka Vkusa or Globus Gourmet. Anyone saw something recently? I noticed this discussion and though about refreshing the topic for end 2009 :-)
there were to bagel places in town, one at tverskaya and another one near belarusskaya. but 'locals' did not warm up to the idea and there was not enough support from the oh ever so crying expat community for back home food and things. so the closed. as simple as that....

slonik
07-12-2009, 15:35
They have bagels in the Shokoladnitsa coffee chain now. Not sure how authentically American they are, but I enjoyed the smoked salmon one. Шоколадница - Меню/Сэндвичи и закуски (http://www.shoko.ru/moskva/menu/sendvichi_i_zakuski/).
Some of their shops also have a bakery attached and sell bread to take away, but I am not sure if the range includes bagels. I also one had a bagel at Friends Forever cafe, but they seemed to have disappeared off the menu Шоколадница - Меню/Сэндвичи и закуски (http://www.shoko.ru/moskva/menu/sendvichi_i_zakuski/)

Benedikt
07-12-2009, 21:34
[QUOTE=slonik;605419]They have bagels in the Shokoladnitsa coffee chain now. Not sure how authentically American they are, but I enjoyed the smoked salmon one.
but these are not bagels, :9451:these are the plain, original russian bubliki,plain white bread dough and baked.:cool:
we all know bagels are first cooked or steamed and then baked,:yikes: a procedure that takes time and knowledge, which very few cook have in Moscow.....

FatAndy
08-12-2009, 12:01
these are the plain, original russian bubliki - NNNNNOOOO!!!!
I ate bagels at Shokoladnitsa couple of times. I remember real bubliki since childhood, there is NO original plain ones in Moscow. Only simulation, mostly unsuccessful.

Ahava
08-12-2009, 12:54
Here are the places:
1) Globus Gourmet
2) Azbuka Vkusa
3) Wolkonsky

Bucko
08-12-2009, 15:56
steamed? maybe boiled?

Baron10
25-10-2010, 13:25
Just checking out Expat.ru and noticed this Bagel thread - You will all be happy to know that the guys at New York Bakery are making real NY style bagels - our office has been getting deliveries with cream cheese - Awesome. I think you can contact them at newyorkbakery.ru. it appears they have alot of US styled products and Ive heard some very good reviews about them. Cheers

RuthElise86
30-10-2010, 14:24
Or should you be feeling adventurous, I have a really good recipe for bagels. It takes some time but it's fairly easy to make and very easy to modify.

Mm, bagels. I should make some.