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Bels
21-10-2007, 19:24
As some of you know I'm wating for an answer on my temporary residency.
It's very disappointing to hear that even with this residency, due to new laws an employer will still need to apply to ovir for a work permit or invitation.

This is disappointing as many wanted the advantage of seeking work as and when they choose without being restricted to one employer. Also there are many employers who would have difficulty in getting you this invitation.

However this probably won't give me any problems as I plan to apply for private entrepenuer as a self employed person. And I will probably be busy any way.

But just an idea for those seeking work and working for who ever they want to work for, or for perhaps those self employed free lancers who want to bve legal. The suggestion is when seeking work at various school, you legally chrge them for your services, and legally invoice them which you will have the ability to do. Pro-forma of course. The price, as a figure of speech could be 1,500 rublees per academic hour no matter what the size of the group. It could one or it could be twenty.Perhaps more if the school offers only a few hours or is in an inconvenient are to you.

raza
22-10-2007, 12:25
well this is right as i am facing the same problem after geting my temp res.these lawas are changes here every day, anyway would u pls give me some info that if i apply for work permit now how much time it will take?
raza

Bels
22-10-2007, 20:50
I have no idea about work permit. You get it from your employer. If you are a teacher you would need an invitation.

Do you you mean an entrepreneurs license. Yes you get this yourself.

Bels
22-10-2007, 21:49
News from Moscow times. It's a lot more muddled than we've got on this thread. Especially about teachers. Why???? because they probably got the info from expat's copycat site. And they are about a month behind.

For example, there never was a problem about teachers, and there isn't now. Providing the get their invitation from a suitable qualified school.

If the Moscow times wants info they should come here

HERE IT IS: THE MOSCOW TIMES New, Tougher Rules for Business Visas (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2007/10/22/004.html)

And from now on I will never believe a word they say.

Also this paper doesn't know when it should use European English, British English, or American English. In fact they don't know the difference.

thva
11-11-2007, 01:12
Bels, are you implying that British English is somehow not European? I know you have the Channel and all, but you were still part of Europe when they taught me in school! ;)

Bels
11-11-2007, 12:01
Not at all, British English is European English. But the Moscow Times uses a lot of American English mixed with British English even when reporting from European resources.

It can look rather strange sometimes, to say the least.

SalTheReturn
11-11-2007, 14:48
Bels, are you implying that British English is somehow not European? I know you have the Channel and all, but you were still part of Europe when they taught me in school! ;)

and they taught you the wrong thing, i am sorry

i am a continental european and a EU passport holder, I have no records of my teacher talking about UK as "Europe"

once again people should understand that Europeness is a feeling and not something to be determined by your geographical position

sad people keep failing at getting this point

Bels
11-11-2007, 14:56
Hey we are British, English, European, unique or just like the Americans :). We choose the correct terminology as and when it suits us.

Lola7
01-12-2007, 10:50
Hey! how come everybody forgets Canada? We're really very nice!

Bels
01-12-2007, 15:54
Hey! how come everybody forgets Canada? We're really very nice!

Agreed :) But how many of you are here seeking residency? Start contributing here with many posts and we won't forget you.

metalhead
01-12-2007, 17:00
Best wishes with your adventure for work permit . Be careful if you are registered in Moscow oblast , as you will be restricted to working outside the city limits . Also last time I checked , entrepeneur status can only be obtained after permanent residency . Someone correct me if I am wrong please . As for work permit , it is obtainable without anyones help . Do it yourself and it will be back to you within a month . Mine took less than a week .

Bels
01-12-2007, 20:23
Best wishes with your adventure for work permit . Be careful if you are registered in Moscow oblast , as you will be restricted to working outside the city limits . Also last time I checked , entrepeneur status can only be obtained after permanent residency . Someone correct me if I am wrong please . As for work permit , it is obtainable without anyones help . Do it yourself and it will be back to you within a month . Mine took less than a week .

Unless laws have changed very recently I say wrong, as my wife takes great care with her enquiries direct. If you have an employer in the city centre and live in the outside region of Moscow, and this employers provides you the invitation in order to get your work permit, no problem.

Entrepeneur license can be got with temporary residency, it's Federal law. I'm expecting mine very soon, I'll let you know.

How can you get a work permit on your own without an employers invitation /letter?

leelee
01-12-2007, 21:19
Hi all

I dont live in Moscow But I am on my second 3 years temp res------ second--- long story but had to apply again as when I got married they made me apply again--- as I took my wifes name when I got married


I have read all the above posts and something I find strange is that ----------------- IF YOU ARE A TEACHER OF ANY SUBJUECT ----- you dont need work permits---- its 1 of the only jobs this applies too

I actually tried to get a work permit a few weeks ago for some different work---- the woman at the OVIR said NO--- because I am reg as a teacher as my main job--- so no work permit required

So I am at a loss why in all the above posts---- we are talking about work permits for teachers--- NOT required


Ask the Ovir

Lee

Clean32
01-12-2007, 21:31
Lee

Follow what Bals is saying if you are working for your self, if for a school the schools have to do the euivilent to a work permit for you.

anyway this is the Law

The sanction to work is not equal in rights to the document on the sanction to time(temporary) residing.
According to clause(article) 2 of the Federal law About a legal status of foreign citizens in the Russian Federation the sanction to work - the document confirming the right of the foreign worker on time(temporary) realization in territory of the Russian Federation of labour activity or the right of the foreign citizen, registered in the Russian Federation as the individual businessman, on realization of enterprise activity.
In conformity with clause(article) 2 of the named law the sanction to time(temporary) residing is an acknowledgement(a confirmation) of the right of the foreign citizen or the person(face) without citizenship temporarily to live in the Russian Federation before reception of the residence permit, issued in the form of a mark in the document proving the identity of the foreign citizen or the person(face) without citizenship, or in the form of the document of the established(installed) form which is given out in the Russian Federation to the person(face) without citizenship, not having the document proving its(his) identity.
The sanction to time(temporary) residing stands out for 3 years, instead of for a year, and at presence of this document it is possible to submit on residence permit.

although this is for the temp res, its the same for ALL visas, IE if your not a RF citz

Bels
02-12-2007, 12:10
Hi all

I dont live in Moscow But I am on my second 3 years temp res------ second--- long story but had to apply again as when I got married they made me apply again--- as I took my wifes name when I got married


I have read all the above posts and something I find strange is that ----------------- IF YOU ARE A TEACHER OF ANY SUBJUECT ----- you dont need work permits---- its 1 of the only jobs this applies too

I actually tried to get a work permit a few weeks ago for some different work---- the woman at the OVIR said NO--- because I am reg as a teacher as my main job--- so no work permit required

So I am at a loss why in all the above posts---- we are talking about work permits for teachers--- NOT required


Ask the Ovir

Lee


True but laws are changing, teachers used to use the business visa BUT, they have always needed a personal invitation from the school, the school has to have the right and privilage to invite foreigners by applying to the foreign office.

Very few schools have this right and a lot of teachers didn't know that they were actually working illegally and some schools were actually employing illegally. Now for a teacher who doesn't have this special invitation they are going to have big problems staying in the country for more than three months. And it's now a very expensive offence with high fines for both the school and the teacher who break this law.

Language Link and BkC are some of the few schools who have this right to employ low paid expats :)

Bels
02-12-2007, 12:28
Hi all

I dont live in Moscow But I am on my second 3 years temp res------ second--- long story but had to apply again as when I got married they made me apply again--- as I took my wifes name when I got married


I have read all the above posts and something I find strange is that ----------------- IF YOU ARE A TEACHER OF ANY SUBJUECT ----- you dont need work permits---- its 1 of the only jobs this applies too

I actually tried to get a work permit a few weeks ago for some different work---- the woman at the OVIR said NO--- because I am reg as a teacher as my main job--- so no work permit required

So I am at a loss why in all the above posts---- we are talking about work permits for teachers--- NOT required


Ask the Ovir

Lee

Don't you agree that as you require this special invitation from one school it is virtually like a work permit. And that you are restricted with employment with just this one school. So, if you are not happy with it the school knows full well that you can't go else where except back home. Problem is, what if your home is Russia :)

leelee
02-12-2007, 19:18
I understand what you are saying, but my origional post was not aimed at teachers here on Visa`s--- yes they need a permit

people who have settled here like myself, as I stated before dont need work permits--- dont need to leave the country,

I actually work totally freelance which includes 4 schools here in Rostov, and like I said before I tried to get a work permit anyway, just because----and the woman in the Ovir said 100% dont need 1 as my temp res states I am a teacher

Lee

leelee
02-12-2007, 19:21
one more thing---

I dont have a contract with any of the schools I work for---- verbal agreement and a hand shake

but saying that I have been here for over 5 years and know all my bosses well--- so I am not underpaid or restricted in anyway, and have the freedom to come and go as I please--- suits me just fine

Lee

Clean32
02-12-2007, 19:29
one more thing---

I dont have a contract with any of the schools I work for---- verbal agreement and a hand shake

but saying that I have been here for over 5 years and know all my bosses well--- so I am not underpaid or restricted in anyway, and have the freedom to come and go as I please--- suits me just fine

Lee

Are you paying Tax ???

Bels
02-12-2007, 19:32
one more thing---

I dont have a contract with any of the schools I work for---- verbal agreement and a hand shake

but saying that I have been here for over 5 years and know all my bosses well--- so I am not underpaid or restricted in anyway, and have the freedom to come and go as I please--- suits me just fine

Lee

Let me be clearer. Like me you have residency. Yes? If you work for a school freelance or whatever you need an official invitation from the school. If not you need to invoice the school as a self employed freelancer. Therefore you need an entrepeneurs license. If you don't have either you and the school are acting in an illegal manner, and you both could be heavily fined. The school will have a much higher fine.

leelee
02-12-2007, 20:05
About 4 years ago I tried to take the all above board approach--- reg as entrepeneur etc etc

but here in Rostov the tax office is so corrupt that in the end I gave up on,---- the giving of gifts, meeting the tax woman at the bus stop just to get my returns done with no problems.

I work, and have worked for the big franchise schools which have been mentioned, but like I said just a hand shake verbal agreement and my money on pay day--- and because there are not many native teachers here I get the hourly rate I ask for, so all in all quite happy really

May be I am lucky, I havent had to look for work here for over 3 years---- it finds me--- I state my hourly fee, If they agree then no problem, if they dont then no deal--- I am absolutely snowed under with even people and 2 companies waiting untill the new year

why do you need an invitation to work if you dont need a work permit, I aslo teach at several big companies, again without any problems

lee

Bels
02-12-2007, 20:28
About 4 years ago I tried to take the all above board approach--- reg as entrepeneur etc etc

but here in Rostov the tax office is so corrupt that in the end I gave up on,---- the giving of gifts, meeting the tax woman at the bus stop just to get my returns done with no problems.

I work, and have worked for the big franchise schools which have been mentioned, but like I said just a hand shake verbal agreement and my money on pay day--- and because there are not many native teachers here I get the hourly rate I ask for, so all in all quite happy really

May be I am lucky, I havent had to look for work here for over 3 years---- it finds me--- I state my hourly fee, If they agree then no problem, if they dont then no deal--- I am absolutely snowed under with even people and 2 companies waiting untill the new year

why do you need an invitation to work if you dont need a work permit, I aslo teach at several big companies, again without any problems

lee

Believe me, you have got it wrong, because you've done it and the schools have done it, doesn't make it right. soon the schools will be worried about certain visits. Laws are tightening, and there are high fines now.

personal invitations from particular schools have always been in force, just because you did certain things in the past doesn't make it legal or right. It's just that it wasn't noticed and the fines were low. It's different now.

And what's your problem about getting an entrepeneurs license and paying 6% taxes. I can't see this being a problem.

But you will have problems in the near future, because times have changed for all of us. But the good news for us, the prices go up :)

Bels
02-12-2007, 20:32
And by the way are you paying tax? I'll sympathise with you if they won't let you :)

leelee
02-12-2007, 20:39
maybe I have got it wrong----- but with no contract with anyone ---I dont work for anyone--- if I dont work then NO TAX ----

The reason why I went on about the work permit and invitation, was that about 3 months ago I was approached my a Moscow company to edit and proof their reports etc etc etc
and they asked for a work permit which is why I went to try and get 1---- I also work for a few moscow companies as proofreader etc etc ---- again no contract---- do the work--- money gets paid either into my bank, or via unistream----- guess I dont exist there either

Lee

Bels
02-12-2007, 21:49
Let's try and simplify it more. If you are employed as a teacher then this school must have the right to invite foriegners to work for them. If not, they are illegal, and may be prosicuted with now a much bigger fine. And you you as a teacher employed by them will be fined also. It has always been that way, but the penalties are now much higher.

I can't put it any simpler and straight to the point.

leelee
03-12-2007, 09:08
I guess everybody I work for will give you the same answer

If you call and say do you have any foreighn teachers working for you they will simply say NO

and I cant imagine anybody staking out any of the schools I work for----

lee

Bels
03-12-2007, 12:54
I guess everybody I work for will give you the same answer

If you call and say do you have any foreighn teachers working for you they will simply say NO

and I cant imagine anybody staking out any of the schools I work for----

lee

But you need at least one school where you pay your taxes with a proper employment. It must be a school that currently emlpoys foreigners. That can employ foreigners.
Thats the problem. You signed a form in your residency that you promise to pay taxes. What you do with other schools is up to you and the schools.
How are you going to explain earning income without paying taxes. That will be your problem, and hence the problem of the schools.

Bels
03-12-2007, 14:25
maybe I have got it wrong----- but with no contract with anyone ---I dont work for anyone--- if I dont work then NO TAX ----

The reason why I went on about the work permit and invitation, was that about 3 months ago I was approached my a Moscow company to edit and proof their reports etc etc etc
and they asked for a work permit which is why I went to try and get 1---- I also work for a few moscow companies as proofreader etc etc ---- again no contract---- do the work--- money gets paid either into my bank, or via unistream----- guess I dont exist there either

Lee

Reading your previous posts, you do have some good issues. I'm referring ta number of your previous posts.

When you tried to get your entrepeneurs license did you already have residency, because by rights with a residency you should be able to get an entrepeneurs license.

Also these companies who asked you for a work permit wouldn't have a problem with you having an entrepeneurs license. Because a lot of the small work you described is self employed work and these companies are only concerned in paying you legally.

So you bill them with your entrepeneurs number stamp on it. And they should be happy with that. Of course you negotiate your price with them.

And cash deals, well we all know this happens all over the world, not just Russia. But I do believe that on a forum that we should all advise with our experience on what you should legally do

MickeyTong
03-12-2007, 15:10
Big Brother is watching.......

Bels
03-12-2007, 15:23
Big Brother is watching.......

Welcome to the tread Big Brother :) Everything referring to I, we, they, and us should be referred to as examples of all of us in general. Or possible experiences. I haven't written anything I should be afraid of. We are all talking about trying to do things properly, aren't we all.

MickeyTong
03-12-2007, 15:28
I just question the wisdom of people discussing their legally questionable behaviour in a forum......
......any country's security agencies will have an interest in what is said on an expat forum....
Personally, I love Big Brother and I'm a bellyfeel good duckspeaker.

Bels
03-12-2007, 15:38
I personally believe that the purpose of this thread is to do exactly that. To do things properly, and none of us have the intention of doing things wrongly. Therefore the "I" for example is fictional.

Anyone who is now worried about a personal post that they posted, then by all means ask to get it deleted.

And security are most welcome here to give their advice. Because I believe that most of us here want things sorted out properly and legally.

Did you know that if you don't wait too long, you can edit or delete your own posts.

Like I just did with mine.

ozzy74
18-01-2008, 04:08
I am planning on moving to moscow to join my fiance, however, Currently stil here in UK and only ever travelled on tourist visas before, Any idea's what would be the most adviseable way to enter moscow with the intentions of a serious relationship? Business visa or application for temp residency? 8/
I have a feeling there is much head ache and work on the way ;p

tgma
18-01-2008, 13:46
Ozzy
Have a look through the forum, and you should get most answers.
If you are going to be living here long term, you have two options, temporary residency or a work visa. Temporary residency takes 6 months, and will be easier if you marry your girlfriend, but is possible if you don't. Basically, there's a quota for non-marrieds, which gets filled up fast in Moscow, and there is no quota for marrieds. A work visa is quicker and easier to obtain, but depends on your employer. If they don't have the right to invite foreign workers, and don't want to go through the hassle, then it's a problem. I believe some visa agencies are now doing work visas for people via shell companies at a cost of about RUR 45,000 but at the moment it's just rumour.
If you get a multi-entry commercial visa, this limits you to 90 days in each 180 day period, and so it only works if you are travelling in and out the whole time.

That's the broad picture, but I would strongly advise that you read through the threads on the forums to get some idea of the details, which are also important. You can find everything you need here, and on expat.ru.

ezik
18-01-2008, 18:06
Also, keep in mind that applying for a temp res needs to be done here in Moscow. Also, count on a lot of papers that you already need to take from the UK, translated into Russian and apostilled. Updated and actual list of requirements will soon be available on the forum. Just went to visit UFMS today for this purpose as I'm gonna go through the same process. First impression: lots of docs and tests, but nothing too bad.

Can't comment on Working Visa, as I know too little of them. Any agency providing them now, however, as a 'service', is not likely to act in accordance with the intentions of the immigration rules, so that's basically thin ice.

No idea, however, how these quotas work and where they can be checked. TGMA, any idea?