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Jas
13-08-2012, 21:25
Post a grammar quiz question and test ure friends!

TO BE FAIR ALL QUESTIONS WILL BE LIKE WHAT THEY HAVE ON IELTS

Let the games begin!!


Ok, here is the first question then

a) Give an example of an extra info clause

yakspeare
13-08-2012, 21:50
Post a grammar quiz question and test ure friends!

TO BE FAIR ALL QUESTIONS WILL BE LIKE WHAT THEY HAVE ON IELTS

Let the games begin!!


Ok, here is the first question then

a) Give an example of an extra info clause

Um but they don't have questions about extra info clauses on IELTS.

By the way, do you mean defining relative and non-defining relative clauses?

Jas
13-08-2012, 21:54
Well which is which, Yakes?
Can u give some examples?
Oh and check IELTS Academic Writing. U got to know about it for the letter and the essay on the GT Module.

Jas
13-08-2012, 22:04
Celia wud know this stuff without any hesitation for sure.

rubyrussia
13-08-2012, 22:31
Jas, sorry to be off-topic but if you don't mind me asking... how old are you?

yakspeare
13-08-2012, 22:34
Jasmine, who lives in Kazan, is a regular poster on expat.ru

<<< non defining relative clause. Uses commas and gives additional non essential information. The sentence will make sense with the extra information omitted. You cannot use 'that' in this construction.

Jasmine's the girl that lives in Kazan

<<< Defining relative clause.

You cannot break up this sentence. 'Who/which" is permitted to be used instead of 'that.' Who/which/that can be omitted if the main clause and relative clause have a different subject ie: Jasmine is the girl I met in Kazan.

Jas
13-08-2012, 22:58
Jasmine, who lives in Kazan, has a cat named Starfire.

This is extra info. Ure right, Yakes. We need commas. Ure saying non-defining and u can also say extra information also.

Jasmine has a cat named Starfire- doesn't need commas.

Ok Yakes, that's ok and u gave us a very good answer.

Jas
13-08-2012, 23:12
QUIZ QUESTION 2

Ok, give an example of a conditional sentence that mixes past and future forms.

Jas
13-08-2012, 23:23
See. They hesitate always. If they knew all the rules heart by heart, they wud know this stuff in a flash- as it the case with Celia.
That's the problem.
If u ask ure teacher a question and they don't know until they've checked in some book, what will u think?
Celia knew the rules so she had a natural and logical way of thinking. Like I told before, all students wud want to be in her class cos they wud be happy.

GalinaP
13-08-2012, 23:29
If you were unable to do this yesterday, how are you going to do this tomorrow?

Jas
13-08-2012, 23:32
Yes Galina. That's cos u know the rules and stuff.
Wud u like to ask us also?

GalinaP
13-08-2012, 23:39
What is the difference in meaning between

I like to do

and

I like doing?

Jas
13-08-2012, 23:41
one of infitive and second is gerund.

Jas
13-08-2012, 23:42
Galina, du u mean I'd like to eat (a request)
and I like eating (general preference).

GalinaP
13-08-2012, 23:44
No, it isn't between I'd like and I like, this one's obvious.

I like to do/I like doing.

DavidB
13-08-2012, 23:45
See. They hesitate always. If they knew all the rules heart by heart, they wud know this stuff in a flash- as it the case with Celia.
That's the problem.
If u ask ure teacher a question and they don't know until they've checked in some book, what will u think?
Celia knew the rules so she had a natural and logical way of thinking. Like I told before, all students wud want to be in her class cos they wud be happy.

I think everyone is a bit tired of grammar and stuff. It's hardly the most interesting aspect of the English language and stuff, even for teachers.

Jas
13-08-2012, 23:56
I like to eat
I like eating

Galina, it's the same, only the pattern is different between infintive and gerund but the meaning is 100% the same. They're both general likes.

yakspeare
13-08-2012, 23:56
We don't hesitate in the least. Non participation just means we have other things to do(like being paid to teach English.) If it was a genuine quest for knowledge, we would answer. We don't need to prove what we know and teach every day. Please give it a rest about Celia, she has been wrong countless times and has the audacity to claim perfection. The most important trait in a teacher is that they are teachable themselves.

Jas
13-08-2012, 23:58
This is the quiz page, it's just to answer questions. Right now we're on Galina's question.

GalinaP
14-08-2012, 00:01
How about:

I like reading. (enjoyable)
I like to read my grammar notes before class. (recognize the usefulness regardless of the pleasure)

Jas
14-08-2012, 00:03
Yes, that's right Galina. U know how I can conceptualize this nuance best?
By listening to the tone of how I say it in me head.
Very good Galina!!!

OK, i got it rong as such... but if u want, give me another.

GalinaP
14-08-2012, 00:11
start to do/start doing

yakspeare
14-08-2012, 00:16
start to do/ start doing can both used with no real difference.

It started snowing
It started to snow.

Start plus verb ING is usually more common when referring to a habit or longer activity:

I started working as a teach in 2007.

GalinaP
14-08-2012, 00:19
Correct, plus you're more likely to use 'start to' when the activity is unfinished, i.e. She started to say something but then thought better of it.

rusmeister
14-08-2012, 07:21
My own question - why are spelling and conventions such as punctuation and capitalization in writing important? What are the effects if we don't trouble to spell correctly?

DavidB
14-08-2012, 09:56
My own question - why are spelling and conventions such as punctuation and capitalization in writing important? What are the effects if we don't trouble to spell correctly?

It's all about accuracy and being able to understand each other.

22297

Jas
14-08-2012, 12:16
Ok, guys, here's another question.

What are the 3 rules for use of the Present Perfect tense?

MikeyP
14-08-2012, 13:25
I think that's the ratios between how much you spent on a gift, how much it was appreciated and how big the argument is likely to be...

MikeyP
14-08-2012, 13:48
I should admit at this point that my understanding of English grammar is pretty weak: Its not something I studied as a native English speaker. I find this thread very interesting.

Jas
14-08-2012, 13:56
MickeyP, Hi, I've got IELTS 9.0 and I'm a native speaker so I combine the best of both worlds u can say.

orlando771
14-08-2012, 14:22
complicated stuff..




Ok, guys, here's another question.

What are the 3 rules for use of the Present Perfect tense?

celeina
14-08-2012, 14:51
Jas, sorry to be off-topic but if you don't mind me asking... how old are you?
Its rude to ask age and waist from females!

celeina
14-08-2012, 14:54
I like to eat
I like eating


In short
Holy Cow.....

Jas
14-08-2012, 15:02
Guys, the 3 rules of the Present Perfect. Please post ure stuff and suggestions as to the answers.

Ignia
14-08-2012, 15:38
Recent events ("I've just just thrown it away"), continuous events ("I've been studying languages since junior high") and indefinite events ("I've been to Seville several times").

My question is this: Why "ure"?
"Please post ure stuff and suggestions as to the answers."

I believe "ure" stands for "you're" which equals "you are", and cannot be used in this sentence. "ur" might stand for "your" which, on the contrary, must be used there.
"Please post your stuff" vs. "Please post you are stuff".

Jas
14-08-2012, 15:52
Er, no. These Ignia are not the right answers. It's not in accordance with any rules as such and students wud never be able to get what ure saying even.

MikeyP
14-08-2012, 15:55
<--- actually interested in the answer rather than the bickering....

Jas
14-08-2012, 15:56
I know, MickeyP and I'll post the answers soon enough, but let's give the guys a little more time to figure things out.
I've got IELTS 9.0 so I know when they're screwing things up.

Jas
14-08-2012, 16:26
Let's look at what Ignia says and see how it totally clashes with IELTS cos a native speaker doesn't even know the basic rules in this case.

First: I've just thrown it away. (Recent Events according to Ignia).

Oh really?
So where's the relationship to the Present (which all perfect tenses has) and how does that meagre explanation differ from the Past Simple?
It doesn't cos it's no explanation at all. What u shud be saying is like this, "You don't have the thing now, cos uve thrown it away, it's a past action that creates a present situation- not having the thing u just thrown).

The correct stuff is like this:
I've just thrown it away (rather than a recent event is a COMPLETED ACTION-that influences write now). That's like IELTS 2 and anyone wud know that!

Next mistake.

I've been studying language since Junior High (she's saying its continous events).
Er, sorry no. That's present progressive. What ure talking about is an action that came from the past to the present. Again, ure not showing the essence of the Present Perfect and no student wud except this kind of explanation cos it mixes tenses.

Next mistake.

This is the worst I think.

I've been to Seville (Indefinite time) Again, she fails to right that the past is joined with the present. How? Cos though u was in Seville and now ure in Moscow, the importance of the action stay with u!! This is why we say this is not indefinite time, it's is life experience.

If anyone doubts all what I am saying, consult IELTS materials, it's all there and I know and I got no doubts cos I memorized this and tons more even.
If u still want to disagree, up to u, whatever, but i think I gave proper answers here.:queen:

Ian G
14-08-2012, 16:53
Jas- Ignia's explanation is correct.

Present perfect is used in 3 situations:

Sth that has happened recently:

I've spoken to the fuzz, and they told me not to worry about it.
I've just met Sasha.



A continuing situation (here present perfect continuous is possible).

I've been living here in Moscow for 12 years.
I've loved Star Trek since I was a small kid.


Sth that has (or hasn't) happened at some unidentified time in the past.
I've been to Bolivia twice.
Mexico has never won the World Cup



In each case- I am measuring time from the present- the present is my point of reference.

Ignia
14-08-2012, 16:59
Thank you for clarification. I see I need to revise grammar more often instead of chatting, watching TV shows and reading fiction. :)
(But I've never said I was a native speaker. ;) )

Ian G
14-08-2012, 17:07
Thank you for clarification. I see I need to revise grammar more often instead of chatting, watching TV shows and reading fiction. :)
(But I've never said I was a native speaker. ;) )

Well- your explanation was basically correct!
A work of advice- if you want to revise your grammar (and it is probably not necessary) then the expat.ru grammar threads that are popping up like mushrooms in this wet weather may not be the best place to start.
:)

yakspeare
14-08-2012, 17:17
We use present perfect for experiences, when the timing of those experiences doesn't matter. When having an experience is more important to when it occurred. It is used for efficiency in language, making the sentence shorter by having the information of the experience as the main. Further questions, if needed, are then asked in the past simple.

Have you been to Italy? (instead of Did you go to Italy last summer, the summer before, when you were 12 etc)

then: When did you go to Italy? Did you like it? What did you see there? etc

It is used for events of the recent past, again without time markers.

The News often uses the Present Perfect for this.

Putin has won the election.
Britney spears has just had a new alien baby.

The present is a subjective thing, depending on the individual- much like a Russian woman getting dressed and saying she will be ready Сейчас. If you feel something has just happened, you use the present perfect. If the time period was further along in the past, then you use the past simple.

For example, Putin won the election held several months ago.
Britney spears had a martian baby last week and her in-laws are said to be green with envy.

We use present perfect for the duration of things with for and since. We also use it with still (еще) and already ( уже)

Sometimes, the past simple and present perfect can seem identical in meaning, but this is due to omission by native speakers.

Eg: Have you done your homework?
(the importance is on result, not when you did-no time marker)

and

Did you do your homework? This sentence has an implied meaning, even though the extra words are not in the sentence " Did you do your homework that I gave you last lesson" << the time marker is there, even when absent from speech.

Ignia
14-08-2012, 17:19
Well- your explanation was basically correct!
A work of advice- if you want to revise your grammar (and it is probably not necessary) then the expat.ru grammar threads that are popping up like mushrooms in this wet weather may not be the best place to start.
:)

I can see that. :) Actually my coworkers and I have 2 English classes a week, so I've got this covered. Forums are for fun (and catching new words and/or phrases). :11033:

rubyrussia
14-08-2012, 17:33
Its rude to ask age and waist from females!

In most cases, yes. :)

TolkoRaz
14-08-2012, 18:02
Er, no. These Ignia are not the right answers. It's not in accordance with any rules as such and students wud never be able to get what ure saying even.

And you claim to be a teacher of the English Language?!?!??! :groan:

God and Allah help your students; they'll need it :10310:

LOL!

GalinaP
14-08-2012, 19:27
For me, it's always best to see the Present Perfect tense as a kind of 'bridge' between the past and the present.

The unspecified past event can only be spoken about in PP when the doer is alive, i.e. Stephen King has written lots of books, whereas we couldn't use PP in reference to dead people, we'd say Charles Dickens wrote lots of books, only the Past tense is possible here.

Yes, of course there's the aspect of PP where adverbs like just, already, yet and still are often used, where we are speaking about the past events influencing the present situation.

And the last aspect of PP is for unfinished time periods, the one with 'for' and 'since'.

Jas
14-08-2012, 21:17
Yakes has pretty much summed up Present Perfect and he done it in a good way that follows all the points I made. A student wud get what he was saying and it's in line with the rules.
Galina, again, uve pointed out the importance of the bridge between the past and the present, which Ignia seemed to have no clue about, and in doing so, confirmed the underlying rule which I myself pointed out. In fact, Ignia when she told about unspecified past hadn't even indicated the Present Perfect cos afterall the unspecified past cud be anything, as in, Where did he go? He went to London. (Though the speaker might know, the time itself is not wrote here).
Also Galina, ure using the correct expressions like unfinished past for for-since, this is textbook stuff and quite write as such.
Ignia in fairness did come up with 3 examples.... but NOT the rules. I also wanted the rules.

Jas
14-08-2012, 21:19
And you claim to be a teacher of the English Language, You're right, you have come up with many smart comments and observations. I am totally impressed.
Allah subhan a luah tallah helped your students when they sent u.

LOL!

I'm actually not a teacher and wudn't want ever to do that kind of stuff, but anyhow, hamdu lilah, cos I know the rules, at least I know more than other native speakers.
And now ure back on iggy.

TolkoRaz
14-08-2012, 22:14
I'm actually not a teacher and wudn't want ever to do that kind of stuff, but anyhow, hamdu lilah, cos I know the rules, at least I know more than other native speakers.
And now ure back on iggy.

Hamdu Lilah! ;)

:celebrate:

rusmeister
15-08-2012, 00:01
Er, no. These Ignia are not the right answers. It's not in accordance with any rules as such and students wud never be able to get what ure saying even.

Jas, as long as you fail or refuse to comply with English spelling, I, and pretty much everyone, will question your competence on lecturing grammar. I can't even treat you like a fellow teacher if you don't know how to spell "would" and "you're".

TolkoRaz
15-08-2012, 00:02
May be she teaches street urchins and would-be rappers? :confused:

orlando771
15-08-2012, 09:22
With the kind of attitude that you think you are better than everyone else!
you had it coming, you need to come down from the clouds.. you still didnt answer about your age.. how old are you?



Ok, guys, here's another question.

What are the 3 rules for use of the Present Perfect tense?


Yakes has pretty much summed up Present Perfect and he done it in a good way that follows all the points I made. A student wud get what he was saying and it's in line with the rules.
Galina, again, uve pointed out the importance of the bridge between the past and the present, which Ignia seemed to have no clue about, and in doing so, confirmed the underlying rule which I myself pointed out. In fact, Ignia when she told about unspecified past hadn't even indicated the Present Perfect cos afterall the unspecified past cud be anything, as in, Where did he go? He went to London. (Though the speaker might know, the time itself is not wrote here).
Also Galina, ure using the correct expressions like unfinished past for for-since, this is textbook stuff and quite write as such.
Ignia in fairness did come up with 3 examples.... but NOT the rules. I also wanted the rules.