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quincy
14-07-2012, 12:42
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18729683

rusmeister
14-07-2012, 13:03
It's not surprising to me.
My best understanding of Islam to date is that it is more like Protestant Christianity than anything else - the lack of central authority and unified tradition that Catholic and Orthodox Christianity have, respectively, and the authority of the individual imam or mullah to interpret a single Holy Book as he sees fit, based on his own understandings (or lack of them) enables infinite division, dissent, and fragmentation. That's why you have thousands of independent Protestant Churches but only one canonical Catholic and one canonical Orthodox Church. Certainly there are major divisions, but as far as I know, that seems to be a general problem of Islam, which is why we see these divisions now.
I'm open to correction on Islam, of course.

peppermintpaddy
14-07-2012, 13:18
I wonder if any of these tv islamists will start preaching tolerance towards other sects,womens rights,building bridges between shia and sunni,fatwas against suicide bombings etc,....hmmmmm,not in a million years,just the opposite in fact.

quincy
28-07-2012, 10:18
It's not surprising to me.
My best understanding of Islam to date is that it is more like Protestant Christianity than anything else - the lack of central authority and unified tradition that Catholic and Orthodox Christianity have, respectively, and the authority of the individual imam or mullah to interpret a single Holy Book as he sees fit, based on his own understandings (or lack of them) enables infinite division, dissent, and fragmentation. That's why you have thousands of independent Protestant Churches but only one canonical Catholic and one canonical Orthodox Church. Certainly there are major divisions, but as far as I know, that seems to be a general problem of Islam, which is why we see these divisions now.
I'm open to correction on Islam, of course.

Islam gives its followers many more detailed instructions to follow, than Christianity

Ibanez
28-07-2012, 12:21
Correct, It is an amalgam of social, political and judicial systems as well as a belief system.

peppermintpaddy
28-07-2012, 18:15
Correct, It is an amalgam of social, political and judicial systems as well as a belief system.

....as well as being a stone age death cult founded by the paedophile Mohammed

rusmeister
29-07-2012, 18:55
Islam gives its followers many more detailed instructions to follow, than Christianity

Well, I think it would be a mistake to see either as a monolithic thing. You have to look to where there is consensus, either by a large majority or by authority (such as the Vatican) in order to make generalizations. So we can say that all of Christianity has always condemned fornication, but historically has little to say about artificial insemination.

In general, Christian consensus strives to give as few instructions as possible; the ones that it does give (Love God and love your neighbor) wind up being very simple, yet complex and applicable to everything.

Jas
29-07-2012, 23:38
Guys, Pakistan was founded at partition as a secular state, albeit as a national homeland for British India's Muslims. People like Muhammad Ali Jinnah we;rent that religious.
Thus Islamism wasn't originally part of the deal.
What changed that?
The roots are in the Kashmir conflict once the Indian agreement to hold a referendum was renaged upon in 1949. After the massacres of partition, people felt Muslims were getting trashed- again (and that's after 200 years of colonial rule where Muslims had revolted frequently).
By the early 1950's you started to get discriminatory legistlation coming in.
What I'm saying is that this stuff wasn't there are the start. So where did it come from? What really sowed Islamism?
Well, certain Gulf states promoted an Islamist agenda and linked that to foreign aid. "Be proper Muslims and we'll help you." That's one source of it.
Second? General Ayub Khan played the Islamist card through the 60's to ensure East Pakistan didn't become Bangladesh, peperred with several bouts of war with India.
Into the 70's, General Zia courted Islamists to rubber stamp things like the Hudood laws- the most regressive legislation imaginable- put into print by a Pro American dictator.
Ah yes, and finally we get to 1979 and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
But it's not all geoploitical... It's deeply ideaological. That ideaology feeds on poverty, ignorance, and frankly, cultural and racial hatred of the West.
From people like Sayed Mawdudi Alaa,' right through to Islam TV and these tv-based ulema, the fact is this: Pakistan is the MAJOR source of Islamist activism in the modern world, in total partnership with its allies.

Ibanez
30-07-2012, 00:54
Careful Jas, you might be called Islamaphobic...

peppermintpaddy
30-07-2012, 01:38
Guys, Pakistan was founded at partition as a secular state, albeit as a national homeland for British India's Muslims. People like Muhammad Ali Jinnah we;rent that religious.
Thus Islamism wasn't originally part of the deal.
What changed that?
The roots are in the Kashmir conflict once the Indian agreement to hold a referendum was renaged upon in 1949. After the massacres of partition, people felt Muslims were getting trashed- again (and that's after 200 years of colonial rule where Muslims had revolted frequently).
By the early 1950's you started to get discriminatory legistlation coming in.
What I'm saying is that this stuff wasn't there are the start. So where did it come from? What really sowed Islamism?
Well, certain Gulf states promoted an Islamist agenda and linked that to foreign aid. "Be proper Muslims and we'll help you." That's one source of it.
Second? General Ayub Khan played the Islamist card through the 60's to ensure East Pakistan didn't become Bangladesh, peperred with several bouts of war with India.
Into the 70's, General Zia courted Islamists to rubber stamp things like the Hudood laws- the most regressive legislation imaginable- put into print by a Pro American dictator.
Ah yes, and finally we get to 1979 and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
But it's not all geoploitical... It's deeply ideaological. That ideaology feeds on poverty, ignorance, and frankly, cultural and racial hatred of the West.
From people like Sayed Mawdudi Alaa,' right through to Islam TV and these tv-based ulema, the fact is this: Pakistan is the MAJOR source of Islamist activism in the modern world, in total partnership with its allies.

I love the fact you've joined this forum Jas.Finally we have someone who actually tells it like it is,and thats a refreshing counter to the apologists for Islam like Rus and Yak for instance,who have only met the tame Muslims that seemingly abide in Russia.There are a couple of others on here also who also bore on about Islam being "the religion of peace"....
I believe all Religion feeds on poverty and ignorance,but yes indeed Islam also brings cultural hatred into the equation.I wonder why Pakistan wasn't included in Reagan's famous Axis of Evil list? ..... Rhetorical question....

Yes,I'm Islamophobic Ibanez,I fear Islam and all its machinations,I'm fairly sure its not yet evident in Russia,but it is in the great cities of Western Europe.

Ibanez
30-07-2012, 01:47
I love the fact you've joined this forum Jas.Finally we have someone who actually tells it like it is,and thats a refreshing counter to the apologists for Islam like Rus and Yak for instance,who have only met the tame Muslims that seemingly abide in Russia.There are a couple of others on here also who also bore on about Islam being "the religion of peace"....
I believe all Religion feeds on poverty and ignorance,but yes indeed Islam also brings cultural hatred into the equation.I wonder why Pakistan wasn't included in Reagan's famous Axis of Evil list? ..... Rhetorical question....

Yes,I'm Islamophobic Ibanez,I fear Islam and all its machinations,I'm fairly sure its not yet evident in Russia,but it is in the great cities of Western Europe.

PP, what??? Fear Islam? We hear in Europe that multi-culti is a great success, with full integration and that peace is blossoming throughout...could it be that you're one of those greasy Islamophobes that doesn't believe in co-existence? Say it aint so!!

peppermintpaddy
30-07-2012, 02:03
PP, what??? Fear Islam? We hear in Europe that multi-culti is a great success, with full integration and that peace is blossoming throughout...could it be that you're one of those greasy Islamophobes that doesn't believe in co-existence? Say it aint so!!

It so,Ibanez...im a not -so-greasy Islamophobe......I dislike all organzed Religion,but I reserve pure hatred for the Stone Age Death Cult that is Islam.

yakspeare
30-07-2012, 02:39
PP is just a hater pure and simple. He cherry picks from people's arguments and twists everyone's opinion to what is convenient to him.

There is a world of difference between Islam and muslims-simply because the average muslim has never read the Koran nor stepped foot in any mosque. Indeed only 7% of American muslims attend mosques regularly.

My experience with muslims is from growing up with them in Australia, serving in Indonesia(and doing intel and counter terrorism there against JI), living in Central Asia, living in southern Russia with a muslim republic 1km away and also having Jordanian and arab Israeli friends. Indeed my best friend is a Jordanian Arab who treats me as a brother. He is a strong supporter of Israel and western democracy, despite being a religious muslim.

peppermintpaddy
30-07-2012, 10:24
PP is just a hater pure and simple. He cherry picks from people's arguments and twists everyone's opinion to what is convenient to him.

There is a world of difference between Islam and muslims-simply because the average muslim has never read the Koran nor stepped foot in any mosque. Indeed only 7% of American muslims attend mosques regularly.

My experience with muslims is from growing up with them in Australia, serving in Indonesia(and doing intel and counter terrorism there against JI), living in Central Asia, living in southern Russia with a muslim republic 1km away and also having Jordanian and arab Israeli friends. Indeed my best friend is a Jordanian Arab who treats me as a brother. He is a strong supporter of Israel and western democracy, despite being a religious muslim.

Yak is the person who twists every argument,the spin meister of the forum....he has a friend for every occassion,on this occasion an Arab (muslim) friend who loves and supports Israel....sheesh,....who'd want a friend like that.Frankly ,I take everything he says with a pinch of salt.
I'm still waiting for him to answer my question"how has Islam changed in 1500 years"-(his statement ,which he unable to expand on.)

Jas
30-07-2012, 15:51
PeppermintPaddy,

I wudn't waste ure time. Best let them get on with it.
PS: I know you're not a hater, just blank it all out and let them indulge their warped version of reality.

yakspeare
30-07-2012, 17:26
PeppermintPaddy,

I wudn't waste ure time. Best let them get on with it.
PS: I know you're not a hater, just blank it all out and let them indulge their warped version of reality.

hahaha.

I have a lot more experience in the muslim world than PP would ever have. He chooses a broad brush to describe 1.5 billion people as paedophiles and followers of a death cult-completely ignoring moderate muslims out there, islamic feminism, muslim states with watered down or no shariah law etc. He routinely attacks many of the muslims on this site, many of them women. It is his reality which is warped.

Jas
30-07-2012, 18:40
Islamic feminism........
Is that the one that goes, "Hey, we're free to be faithful wives and mothers above all else subject to the blistering fires of hell should we slip up and more practically-my male guardian's wrath."
Funny how it's always guys and a few male-identified women who tout that kind of feminism.
I've not heard PP describe Muslims per se as you describe. Why wud he? He's just against the extremists, that's all.

yakspeare
30-07-2012, 18:52
Islamic feminism........
Is that the one that goes, "Hey, we're free to be faithful wives and mothers above all else subject to the blistering fires of hell should we slip up and more practically-my male guardian's wrath."
Funny how it's always guys and a few male-identified women who tout that kind of feminism.
I've not heard PP describe Muslims per se as you describe. Why wud he? He's just against the extremists, that's all.

no he isn't. I have had him blocked for several months now, you need to read the history of his posts. You haven't been a member of this forum for long and haven't heard all his rantings. I AM against extremism, and PP and I are worlds apart. And no that isn't islamic feminism that you mentioned.

peppermintpaddy
30-07-2012, 20:12
Islamic feminism........
Is that the one that goes, "Hey, we're free to be faithful wives and mothers above all else subject to the blistering fires of hell should we slip up and more practically-my male guardian's wrath."
Funny how it's always guys and a few male-identified women who tout that kind of feminism.
I've not heard PP describe Muslims per se as you describe. Why wud he? He's just against the extremists, that's all.

Absolutely right Jas.....I'm just against the extremists,and their apologists,Yak being the main one.He's annoyed with me coz I absolutely battered him on a couple of threads in his support for Islam.He has no experience of Islam in all its Fundamentalist glory such as it is in the UK for instance....Check out the Sharia Law thread Jas,and see if I am what he sez I am.....As I stated before ,I hate all Religious Fundamentalists ,but especially the Islamic ones and their stone age death cult.

Heres the sharia law thread Jas....my 1st comment is on page 3,post 30......make up your own mind.

http://expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=410838&page=3

peppermintpaddy
30-07-2012, 20:16
hahaha.

I have a lot more experience in the muslim world than PP would ever have. He chooses a broad brush to describe 1.5 billion people as paedophiles and followers of a death cult-completely ignoring moderate muslims out there, islamic feminism, muslim states with watered down or no shariah law etc. He routinely attacks many of the muslims on this site, many of them women. It is his reality which is warped.


Once again he twist and spins everything.....Mohammed married a 6 year old,and consumnated the marriage when she was 9.....he was a paedophile....where's the argument?,thats a fact.
Which Muslims have I attacked on this site?lies and more lies....many of them women...youre full of ***** Yak

yakspeare
30-07-2012, 21:44
Jas if you search in the Shariah thread(among others) you will see his posts such as the following plus his attacks on female muslim members always and carly, and the mods warning him and then giving him a temp ban/time out for language:


Some of his posts-

I am of course against muslim immigration to the West.
There's nothing benign about Islam.It's a Religion of violence.If you want to live under sharia law,go to your beloved Jordan,and have to produce your passport to buy a beer.
Let the Muslims live their sharia way of life in a Muslim country,we don't want their primitive religious superstition in the West. post 70


There are of course muslims who are good guys,just as I suppose there were good Nazis,who just wanted to build motorways and banish the Jews to Madagascar.However ,they weren't the ones who took power. post 113

Nothing wrong with ethnic diversity,its the growth of militant Islam thats the problem.The Indians,Chinese, Jews etc are no problem,only the Muslims.

How can you compare Oz to the uk.?....seriously,Oz is 32 times larger than the UK ,with less than 1/3rd the population.But to make an even fairer comparison-OZ is 60 times larger than England,which has a 50+million population,probably 20% Muslim.puh-leeze,enough already... post 148

peppermintpaddy
30-07-2012, 22:51
Jas if you search in the Shariah thread(among others) you will see his posts such as the following plus his attacks on female muslim members always and carly, and the mods warning him and then giving him a temp ban/time out for language:


Some of his posts-

I am of course against muslim immigration to the West.
There's nothing benign about Islam.It's a Religion of violence.If you want to live under sharia law,go to your beloved Jordan,and have to produce your passport to buy a beer.
Let the Muslims live their sharia way of life in a Muslim country,we don't want their primitive religious superstition in the West. post 70


There are of course muslims who are good guys,just as I suppose there were good Nazis,who just wanted to build motorways and banish the Jews to Madagascar.However ,they weren't the ones who took power. post 113

Nothing wrong with ethnic diversity,its the growth of militant Islam thats the problem.The Indians,Chinese, Jews etc are no problem,only the Muslims.

How can you compare Oz to the uk.?....seriously,Oz is 32 times larger than the UK ,with less than 1/3rd the population.But to make an even fairer comparison-OZ is 60 times larger than England,which has a 50+million population,probably 20% Muslim.puh-leeze,enough already... post 148

Yes,and I stand by every word.Islam is a stone age death cult,and it hasn't changed a whit in 1500 years......

Just a thought....for someone who has me on ignore.....Yak seems pretty obsessed with me...probably coz I'm the only one who challenges his BS........

Jas
30-07-2012, 23:26
PP made it clear in his posts he supports multi racial Britain... so how does that make him a racist? It can't.
I don't see his main arguments as disimilar from any number of Muslims I know in Pakistan who are totally frustrated by the upswing in radicalism, or those Revolutionary Socialists in Egypt who are now marginalized, undercut by America, and living now in fear of arrest.
Yakes, people are frustrated. That goes for people in the Muslim community and in the non Muslim community. There's nothing to say that Muslims, ex Muslims, and non Muslims can't unite against fascism of all kinds.
Now, I believe that's what PP is looking for: a COMMON front against Nazism and Islamic extremism. What he sees is growing white racism and growing religious radicalism- because the two FEED off each other. You're misinterpreting PP's frustration with racism and that's really very disingenious. But don't blame people for being angry... blame those who have created this polarization in society.
PP wud be quite welcome in the SWP, I may add where he wud meet tons of secularist Pakistanis-Asians and I think he'd do just fine.

yakspeare
30-07-2012, 23:54
PP made it clear in his posts he supports multi racial Britain... so how does that make him a racist? It can't.
I don't see his main arguments as disimilar from any number of Muslims I know in Pakistan who are totally frustrated by the upswing in radicalism, or those Revolutionary Socialists in Egypt who are now marginalized, undercut by America, and living now in fear of arrest.
Yakes, people are frustrated. That goes for people in the Muslim community and in the non Muslim community. There's nothing to say that Muslims, ex Muslims, and non Muslims can't unite against fascism of all kinds.
Now, I believe that's what PP is looking for: a COMMON front against Nazism and Islamic extremism. What he sees is growing white racism and growing religious radicalism- because the two FEED off each other. You're misinterpreting PP's frustration with racism and that's really very disingenious. But don't blame people for being angry... blame those who have created this polarization in society.
PP wud be quite welcome in the SWP, I may add where he wud meet tons of secularist Pakistanis-Asians and I think he'd do just fine.

You obviously did not read his posts I put up.

He states he is against muslim migration to Britain.
He states he has no problem with multiracial Britain-everyone is okay except muslims.

then he likens good muslims to good nazis.

Then he claims that 20% of British people are muslim-when the real number is about a quarter of that.

None of that mentions extreme muslims or radicals-just muslims in general.

rusmeister
31-07-2012, 07:50
Does anyone know what a phobia IS?
It's an IRRATIONAL FEAR - one that is without any reason whatsoever.

So 1) if a person has a reason to oppose something, even if the reason is wrong, they are not thereby irrational, but rational.

2) a fear can be reasonable or unreasonable, and being wrong does not make one entirely lacking in reason.

So it is actually unintelligent to use a word like "homophobia", even if it is fashionable. Anyone who realizes this and wants to be intelligent - which includes saying what you actually MEAN - should obviously stop using the word. It is a rhetorical weapon used to manipulate unintelligent people.

I'm not trying to call people stupid, because no one can be blamed if they've never thought about it. But once you HAVE (ie, right now), it becomes stupid.

If there ARE people cringing in corners in irrational fright if they see a gay couple kissing, then the term is appropriate. But it cannot apply to people who hold a clear dogma that marriage is a definite thing not subject to redefinition.

Jas
31-07-2012, 11:43
Yakes and Rus,

I don't blame you for finding common currency with Islamists. Your own ideas are so marginalized in society (antigay, reactionary, mysogonyst, patriarchal) the Islamists if not natural allies in practice, at least ennable you kind of guys to continue on the path you're on. There may even be some convoluted ideaology behind it. Again, not surprising. Such muddle-headed thinking creates strange bedfellows. You remind me of those hardline Communists in the 1930's who welcomed Hitler in the belief that they could somehow profit from his stupidity. Most of them ended up in concentration camps. We saw the same in Tahrir. Again, people who thought they could use Islamism to tear down Mubarak. And now they're fleeing.
Keep up the love in with Islamism cos I don't think you got much love for normal Muslim people. It's all political. It's to push your own political and cultural agenda. As you do this, you are busily undercutting our Socialist Progressive resistance to the tightening grip of Islamism in Muslim societies and in Muslim communities- every step of the way But, hey, you'd rather stomp on Muslim Leftists than your Islamist allies on the religious right, wouldn't you, boys. It's rather like watching a pair of lemmings walking towards a cliff.... it's pointless to stop them. Islamism will eat you guys up bite by bite.

MickeyTong
31-07-2012, 13:47
Jas.....you may know of these people:

http://www.rawa.org/index.php

yakspeare
31-07-2012, 14:13
Yakes and Rus,

I don't blame you for finding common currency with Islamists. Your own ideas are so marginalized in society (antigay, reactionary, mysogonyst, patriarchal) the Islamists if not natural allies in practice, at least ennable you kind of guys to continue on the path you're on. There may even be some convoluted ideaology behind it. Again, not surprising. Such muddle-headed thinking creates strange bedfellows. You remind me of those hardline Communists in the 1930's who welcomed Hitler in the belief that they could somehow profit from his stupidity. Most of them ended up in concentration camps. We saw the same in Tahrir. Again, people who thought they could use Islamism to tear down Mubarak. And now they're fleeing.
Keep up the love in with Islamism cos I don't think you got much love for normal Muslim people. It's all political. It's to push your own political and cultural agenda. As you do this, you are busily undercutting our Socialist Progressive resistance to the tightening grip of Islamism in Muslim societies and in Muslim communities- every step of the way But, hey, you'd rather stomp on Muslim Leftists than your Islamist allies on the religious right, wouldn't you, boys. It's rather like watching a pair of lemmings walking towards a cliff.... it's pointless to stop them. Islamism will eat you guys up bite by bite.

Well I am not a Christian. I am Jewish. The country I will eventually call home is Israel, which has the most liberal view on Gays in the Middle East. I am not anti-gay in the least. I am not Rus. I had two Lesbian Aunts and another I considered an Aunt too. Sadly one killed herself and the other two broke up. One of my dearest friends is also a Lesbian, who had her partner kill herself too-because US law made it so difficult for them to be together with no spousal visa option for them(unlike the UK and my native Australia.)

I am from a multicultural society and went to a school which had only 20 white guys out of 1000. I am for plurism and multiculturalism, Rusmeister is against. He is anti-gay, I am not. I have fought extremists in a real way, not sit in an armchair like PP in the UK. I am opposed to the spread of Wahbism strongly. As my Uzbek friends said to me, the egyptians and sauds are crazy and are not followers of Allah. They don't believe in burqas and only wear a head covering for Ramadan. Most have never been in a mosque and I never met one who had read the Koran. These are the sorts of people I try to protect from racist remarks and labelling of all muslims. That and nothing more.

rusmeister
31-07-2012, 18:53
Well, you may insist on defining me as "anti-gay"; since my understanding of what the thing is and what people are differs in varying respects, I deny your idea; at any rate, I am not against a certain class of people, because I have a different understanding of classifications. We are ALL Fallen; we all have Fallen desires; I am against the legitimization of those desires as good and normal things. Drunkenness is an abuse of the enjoyment of wine, the homoerotic act is an abuse of the proper use and relation of the sexes. So "gays" suffer from their passions as I do from mine. Alcoholism, fornication (ALL sex outside of marriage, which can only be between one man and one woman), gluttony, homosexual acts - are all Fallen, all brokenness from God, which is what sin is. I am against the modern fashion of proclaiming sin as not-sin. Simple as that. I do not judge people; God does. I say that sin remains sin, even when people want to pretend that it is not. I would do the same if the fashion were to legitimize alcoholism as good and alcoholics as a category of people like race and sex (gender). For now, you still think alcoholism bad, but have, with popular fashions, come to approve of what civilized people always kept under wraps. That requires nuancing - of course the thing has always been practiced, most often by an elite, and not by the common man - but it never had universal approval and practice across an entire society.

So there is no equivalency to sex or race. The "gay", the person suffering from same-sex attraction, suffers from a desire. The desire is NOT sin; acting on it IS. That is my position. Is it clear? (whether you agree or not)

rusmeister
31-07-2012, 19:23
Islam is another matter. It is not strange that a person who does not really pay attention to what I say might imagine that I defend Islam in general when they once saw me defend a good thing in Islam. Seeing good things in a bad system does not equal being a general defender of it, any more than a person seeing the elimination of homelessness in the Soviet Union and remarking on it makes them a general defender of Communism.

Islam successfully swept across a hedonistic and largely unbelieving portion of the world. It failed where it met another religion, also ascetic, yet more liberal than it. But if people must deny Christian faith, they are not altogether unlikely to find that people who will not be Christians and tire of being atheists and agnostics WILL accept something else, and then we COULD see a new rise of Islam to rival the seventh century. I do not defend that; I think it a bad thing. I think only the religion that most completely apprehends the human soul can prevent both it and a godless Soviet-style state, most likely under a pluralist multicultural flag, forcing everyone to tolerate everything, including the poisons in the various failed philosophies of the past. A repeat of Roman history, with a fall that will dwarf the ancient one.

It would take too long to expound on how that can be here, but a defender of Islam? Hardly.

peppermintpaddy
31-07-2012, 21:12
Well I am not a Christian. I am Jewish. The country I will eventually call home is Israel, which has the most liberal view on Gays in the Middle East. I am not anti-gay in the least. I am not Rus. I had two Lesbian Aunts and another I considered an Aunt too. Sadly one killed herself and the other two broke up. One of my dearest friends is also a Lesbian, who had her partner kill herself too-because US law made it so difficult for them to be together with no spousal visa option for them(unlike the UK and my native Australia.)

I am from a multicultural society and went to a school which had only 20 white guys out of 1000. I am for plurism and multiculturalism, Rusmeister is against. He is anti-gay, I am not. I have fought extremists in a real way, not sit in an armchair like PP in the UK. I am opposed to the spread of Wahbism strongly. As my Uzbek friends said to me, the egyptians and sauds are crazy and are not followers of Allah. They don't believe in burqas and only wear a head covering for Ramadan. Most have never been in a mosque and I never met one who had read the Koran. As I said earlier,Yak has a friend for every occasion,this time 2 lesbian aunts.I never believe a word he says,hes a complete romancer.Now he has fought extremeists...yeah ,right.If you read the sharia law thread,you will see that hes all for it,he sees nothing wrong with it,and makes out,in most instances,its a good thing.His knowledge of Islam is his Uzbek friends,who by the sound of it,are not really Muslims at all.More bullshine from the spin meister.



























It would take too long to expound on how that can be here, but a defender of Islam? Hardly.

Rus defends anyone who believes in an organized Religion,including Islam.He's a damn liar.He would secretly love to have his own Orthodox police like the Sharia police that operate in many (the majority of Muslim countries)

peppermintpaddy
31-07-2012, 21:23
Yakes and Rus,

I don't blame you for finding common currency with Islamists. Your own ideas are so marginalized in society (antigay, reactionary, mysogonyst, patriarchal) the Islamists if not natural allies in practice, at least ennable you kind of guys to continue on the path you're on. There may even be some convoluted ideaology behind it. Again, not surprising. Such muddle-headed thinking creates strange bedfellows. You remind me of those hardline Communists in the 1930's who welcomed Hitler in the belief that they could somehow profit from his stupidity. Most of them ended up in concentration camps. We saw the same in Tahrir. Again, people who thought they could use Islamism to tear down Mubarak. And now they're fleeing.
Keep up the love in with Islamism cos I don't think you got much love for normal Muslim people. It's all political. It's to push your own political and cultural agenda. As you do this, you are busily undercutting our Socialist Progressive resistance to the tightening grip of Islamism in Muslim societies and in Muslim communities- every step of the way But, hey, you'd rather stomp on Muslim Leftists than your Islamist allies on the religious right, wouldn't you, boys. It's rather like watching a pair of lemmings walking towards a cliff.... it's pointless to stop them. Islamism will eat you guys up bite by bite.

aint that the truth ..Islam will eat them alive given a chance.Yak of course dreaMS of going to live in Israel ,he mentions that it has the most tolerant policy towards gays in the middle east......thats because there are lots of intellectual liberal jews ,especially in tel aviv...but Yak is studying the torah,he wants to be a religious jew.Do you think he will state how pro -gay he is among the guys with the fur hats and the long beards....yeah right.
Rus of course is a religious fanatic,he would happily burn all non-believers,indeed he spends his whole life on this forum trying to convert us all.A pair of absolute frauds,both of them.........

quincy
01-08-2012, 09:18
.Islamism will eat you guys up bite by bite.

guys, I don't think Jas is joking

rusmeister
01-08-2012, 18:22
guys, I don't think Jas is joking

I think I implied as much in my previous post...

robertmf
01-08-2012, 18:42
Jas.....you may know of these people:

http://www.rawa.org/index.php

The website has the flavour of cold war Rooskie agitprop.

Agitprop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
:snoring:

MickeyTong
01-08-2012, 21:33
The website has the flavour of cold war Rooskie agitprop.

Agitprop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agitprop)
:snoring:


Yes. It worked for Brecht.