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Reveal
17-12-2003, 16:07
Hi !

I am totally new for Moscow ... I will highly appreciate new friends, or simply kind people to talk or chat with or may be great places to visit.

are there any nice available guides? ;)

sincerely,
Reveal

Skyguy
17-12-2003, 16:20
SorryDarling, Iv'e been here four month's and leave this friday for good. Good luck in your quest and for your time in the Dullest City in the World.

kniga
17-12-2003, 16:30
Reveal,

For every visitor (hardly an expat with only four months here) like Skyguy, who doesn't sound like much of an adventurous traveler, there are many more of us here on this site that will tell you that once beyond the contradictions and surprises that Russia provides for us all, there are many wonderful places to go and things to see here. How long are you going to be here?

Kshisya
17-12-2003, 16:34
Originally posted by Skyguy
Dullest City in the World.

hah! **** sake:eek: :D :D good byEE !!!! have a safe and exciting trip to ya motherland!:rolleyes:

cls
17-12-2003, 16:39
With reference to the comments made by our chat friend.

Moscow, indeed Russia, has many, many faults. But then so does the UK, USA and every other country in the World. I have been here for 6 years and although I would like to go back to the UK now, I would have to say that these 6 years have been the happiest and most interesting of my life.

Yes you have all the tourist things to do and see. But Russia, the real Russia, is about people. Make friends with Russians and it will open your eyes.

If you have Russian friend, he/she will give you everything and anything they have got. They will also show you places and things in Moscow/Russia that mosr tourists never see.

Look at this as an adventure, make some expat friends and make some Russian friends. the you will see both sides of the fence.

moscowmail
17-12-2003, 16:40
Here here CLS,

Skydude, we are what we percieve old chap :p

DJ Biscuit
17-12-2003, 16:41
Totally agree, although reading a lot of threads here about how wonderful Russians are, how deep the culture is, what a fantastic place this is etc etc often has me thinking that these expats don't assimilate and live with rose coloured spectacles I still say Kniga is right. There is something exciting and interesting about ANY place in the world.

As to all the talk here about how warm, kind, honest etc Russians are, well to all those people that write this stuff I can only say, do you think that people say that about your home town (Manchester for example) ? Or is this just some romantic notion you have?

kniga
17-12-2003, 16:42
Reveal,

With CLC's advice you can't go wrong! I'd add just one more thing, and that is to learn as much Russian as you can to make your stay even more of an adventure.

DJ Biscuit
17-12-2003, 16:44
And I have been here over 8 yrs, I very very rarely speak to expats, and I also have spent some of the most exciting and interesting yrs of my life here.

So you have alot to look forward to, what do you want to see, how long will you be here for, purpose of stay etc?

kniga
17-12-2003, 16:49
DJ,

I am one of those who is enthusiastic, although not blindly romantic, about the Russians, their culture, language, etc., but it is because of my attitude as a visitor to other lands. I've lived in a number of other countries and visited a whole lot more and my times in these places have been great adventures sprinkled with the expected series of disasters that always befall the visitor. Attitude is the prime determinant for most journeys through life, and living in a foreign country is certainy a prime example of this axiom. And yeah, I'd be able to speak pretty enthusiastically about how a foreigner might be treated in my hometown in the U.S., providing that the visitor had enough common sense to conduct himself politely and with an eye and ear to our customs. And he'd definitely better know or learn some English because that's virtually all we speak.

cls
17-12-2003, 16:52
With reference to the comments made by DJ Biscuit.

I have lived in Moscow, Samara, Ufa and Izhevsk in Russia (the last place being a real, closed, Soviet style town in the middle of no-where), I have also lived in Riga, Latvia (without doubt the most pretty and happening place in Europe...GO THERE), Budapest, Prague, Stockholm and Copenhagen.

Obviously, I have lived in the UK as well!!!!

So, I think I am well prepared to give an opinion on the subject of people and their attitudes.

Yes, Russian's are cold at first and it is very hard to gain their trust. Furthermore, they only give you their trust once, so don't abuse it.

But, if you get past those minor issues......then you will know what real friendship is.

Yes, try and learn Russian, or at least some Russian so that you can be courteous.....you will be amazed how the locals appreciate the effort.

I loved Russians SOOOOO much, I married one.

Skyguy
17-12-2003, 16:57
I can see why you all do well here, half of you cant even read what I said in my reply. You want adventure, three of my four months here were spent in the chetchen war zone, my next holiday is Al Kut in Iraq my last holiday was in Kabul. So while you sit pontificating from your safe ex pat bar stool don't have the gall to speak to me about adventure and local delights, come with me and see real people and how they are treated by so called ex pat's and friendly governments. As long as you have a refuge and a clean passport I suppose you can lord it over the locals. Most of you seem to have your heads so far up your arse you can't see daylight.

DJ Biscuit
17-12-2003, 16:59
That's what I mean, I married my Russian wife, not cos she's Russian but because she is who she is!

I agree, if you speak the language you get so much more. Kniga, I have lived in many places too, and visited a heap more too. I speak Russian and as I said apart from Expat.ru I don't have much contact with 'non Russians' and I love it here, but I am also realistic. I see a lot of people here saying in answer to some comment about Moscow/Russsia, if you don't like it leave. That is wrong. There is a lot about this place that makes me angry. I pay Russian taxes, I have a right not to be blind to short comings.:)

DJ Biscuit
17-12-2003, 17:01
Originally posted by Skyguy
I can see why you all do well here, half of you cant even read what I said in my reply. You want adventure, three of my four months here were spent in the chetchen war zone, my next holiday is Al Kut in Iraq my last holiday was in Kabul. So while you sit pontificating from your safe ex pat bar stool don't have the gall to speak to me about adventure and local delights, come with me and see real people and how they are treated by so called ex pat's and friendly governments. As long as you have a refuge and a clean passport I suppose you can lord it over the locals. Most of you seem to have your heads so far up your arse you can't see daylight.

cls
17-12-2003, 17:05
What information in what previous mail????

Tell me so that I can read it and apologise!!!!

The only communication from you related to Reveals request makes no mention of your missions into the real Russia and other such territories.

Your comments about ex-pats are partially correct and I agree to a certain extent as I know many that are exactly like you describe.

But many of us are not like that.

And by the same token, their are just as many 'divs' who cannot hold down 'fat cat' positions with huge salaries so they go off on World tours on mercy missions and take a break from the 'rat race'.

It is dangerous to pass sweeping statements over classes of people.

There are many bad Russians as well as good ones.....but lets not get distracted. Reveal asked a simple question, to which most of us gave a simple, unbiased opinion.

sfjohns67
17-12-2003, 17:11
Originally posted by Skyguy
I can see why you all do well here, half of you cant even read what I said in my reply. You want adventure, three of my four months here were spent in the chetchen war zone, my next holiday is Al Kut in Iraq my last holiday was in Kabul. So while you sit pontificating from your safe ex pat bar stool don't have the gall to speak to me about adventure and local delights, come with me and see real people and how they are treated by so called ex pat's and friendly governments. As long as you have a refuge and a clean passport I suppose you can lord it over the locals. Most of you seem to have your heads so far up your arse you can't see daylight.
1. You're rude, therefore good riddance.

2. Your original reply didn't say ****, other than that you're leaving a "dull city" for good. Not a word about your passionate life dodging bullets and witnessing brutality.

3. I like pontificating from my expat stool (heh heh, I said stool), and trust me, my gall knows no bounds.

4. I no longer have any interest in exposing myself to the aforementioned bullets and brutality. Been there, done that, and have gladly left it behind to live vicariously through arrogant turds like you constantly crowing about it.

5. Is "arse" English for "ass"? If so, I like my head there just fine - it's warm, safe, and I'm just about completely used to the smell.

6. Did I mention you're rude? I forgot to add "an idiot" to that description.

Have a nice day, and don't let me catch you in my city again.

Skyguy
17-12-2003, 17:24
Sf: You just confirmed all I have come to realise about Moscow ex pats (in general) aconcession on my part. "My City" you must be a Yank. Rude no: that monopoly falls squarely with most americans big, brash and yes over fed over paid and over here again applys to most . I have had the experience to see ex pats in most continents, most have the ability to fail in countries with lower standards, therefore they can hide all the better. You are probably here because you failed somewhere else and feel so high and mighty with your so called "western head" on wise shoulders. Keep playing the typical ex pat with your slogan " DRINK UP ETC" What an arse, Iv'e read some of your other comments also equal in intelligence and scope. Dodged bullets,been there done that have you, must have been long term and professional at that as well short termer. I am a professional, I travel and I am paid exceptionally well for being so, but this is what you fail to grasp is that I see the damage you people can and have done around the world, hidden behind you safe havens as ex pats. Your the sort of guy I would never get sick of punching.

sfjohns67
17-12-2003, 17:32
Whatever. If you hate expats so much, why are you simpering around this site? I never mentioned anything about being well-paid, you did, you arrogant twit.

Damn right, I'm a Yank, but due to what seems to be a huge case of penis envy, that fact seems to bother nobody but you.

How do you punch with such limp wrists?

cls
17-12-2003, 17:36
OK.....I think we have covered everything now. One of you hates Moscow and the rest of us hate you.

Sorry Reveal, we seem to have got a little side tracked.

sfjohn67....GAME ON.

Skyguy....If you hate expats so much, and hate what we do and hate what we get paid etc, etc, etc, your comments seem a little, shall we say, strange. So you are a professional, well paid, in and out in a few months.

To my twisted East London way of thinking, that makes you worse than us. We stay here long term, good or bad, and try to improve the country and the economics. You are a mercenary.....in take the money and run.

Oh and before you say anything, I am a director in one of Russia's biggest companies....not a foreign, expat company. I am not as well paid as most people here doing the same job. I do it because I feel for the country and the people and I enjoy the way of life. Which, by the way, is not bars and clubs every night, in fact I cannot remember when I was last in one, it is just being a normal person doing a job.

DJ Biscuit
17-12-2003, 17:40
Me too. Work for local organisation, no expat package and don't care. I do not consider myself some sort of saviour from the 'civilsed advanced world'. I just do what am I am good at and it happens that at the moment I am doing it here.

cls
17-12-2003, 17:48
Top Man.....

Yes there are some real planks here earning huge salaries for doing naff all, but there are also many others doing a good job, in hard conditions, because they want to make a difference.

People like our friend have a short life span because they are too blinkered, narrow minded and bitter (about something).

They want to go.....good.

We, Russia and the World, do not need them.

Reveal
17-12-2003, 17:58
Guys,

I see what a discussion was raised here after such a naïve question.

Well, well, well all of you doing the inputJ in the history of Moscow, or taking broader - Russia …

Me too, I feel something for this country … and there is a reason …

It isn’t the question who came here and what were the reasons, but what you did here - these inputs are always appreciated, at least by those who are near and dear to us, right?

Everything is relatively in the world, including salaries, that someone of you mentioned… anyone can be up or down in every moment of life … but all of us are making new discoveries coming along our roads … but what we it is impossible to enter the same river twice

:agree:

Reveal

cls
17-12-2003, 18:01
Very profound, true and concise.

Skyguy.....take note.

moscowmail
17-12-2003, 19:52
Well, I don;t normally like to get involved with this type of arument, but Sky guy, woooo a whole 3 months in war torn Chechnaya... must be so very scary....

Kabul... S**t I was there in 1985 and it was kinda fun, go to some places some of have been to then tell us how wonderful you are, I have to agree with sfjohns67, been there, hated it, well sort of, but you are of course better than all of us poor lonely expats......

RIGHT, your the sad F**k here old chap, or should I say "Gollaboyyyyy"

Graffiti
17-12-2003, 19:58
Come on, guys, leave him alone. He must be really young otherwise there is no way he would have come up with an outburst like that

moscowmail
17-12-2003, 20:05
Nah, he can't be that young.... he just acts like a kid ;)

DaveUKagain
18-12-2003, 04:18
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
Totally agree, although reading a lot of threads here about how wonderful Russians are, how deep the culture is, what a fantastic place this is etc etc often has me thinking that these expats don't assimilate and live with rose coloured spectacles I still say Kniga is right. There is something exciting and interesting about ANY place in the world.

As to all the talk here about how warm, kind, honest etc Russians are, well to all those people that write this stuff I can only say, do you think that people say that about your home town (Manchester for example) ? Or is this just some romantic notion you have?

DJ, you`re right, mate. So`s Kniga and all the other posters here - being IN Russia is about being with the people, and Russians are fantastic, kind, friendly people - for the most part. I`ve been an expat before (though not in Russia, which I only visited due to a relationship) (coming again ASAP, folks, regular basis. ;-)))) ) - but from what I`ve seen of expat culture elsewhere, expats relocate for two reasons - career or lifestyle.

Now, this is an Expat site, so allcomers welcome - the career folk go over, do their time, don`t really assimilate, go home. Fine, that`s all par for the course. But - for me, Russia is Russian people, culture, traditions, language..... and being IN Russia is being a part of that culture, even as an outsider.

DJ`s also right about the old rose coloured specs. Anyone who wears rose coloured glasses in Russia will shortly have then taken off and smashed to smithereens, because life there is an excercise in reality - no one can afford to walk around in a dream in Russia. "Keep your head in the sky and your feet on the ground." But. All things considered, give me Russian warmth and hospitality over the UK equivalent anyday - and the UK standard of living, of course. ;-))))))

Anywhere but anywhere can be dull, depressing, drab or downright unpleasant to be - but - it`s not just the place but who you are, your reasons for being there - the worst place on earth is the place you don`t want to be in. ;-)

I think the last thing I`d call Moscow - or Russia - is "dull". ;-)))))

Ned Kelly
18-12-2003, 08:51
Just on Russia's "deep culture". I had that impression for a long time after reading Dostoyevsky and other marvellous writers but I think in truth, like most places, it's pretty shallow and banal.

What I think is great about Russia is its self destructive streak and people's willingness to live for the moment - never knowing what the next one will bring.

lyndsay
18-12-2003, 10:23
You get what you put in... and you reap what you so...

:eek:

kniga
18-12-2003, 10:39
What you so what?

Skyguy
18-12-2003, 10:40
Well that certainly made people reveal their true colours, put a little bit of doubt and bitterness into the pot and see what it produces. Actually I am an chartered surveyor, yes I leave tomorrow and yes I have only been here 4 months so I am no expert on Russia, what I am is an expert at winding people up and you lot were game. I will be back in January and standby for some more sucker them in subjects for you to bite on..

sfjohns67
18-12-2003, 10:44
Originally posted by Skyguy
Well that certainly made people reveal their true colours, put a little bit of doubt and bitterness into the pot and see what it produces. Actually I am an chartered surveyor, yes I leave tomorrow and yes I have only been here 4 months so I am no expert on Russia, what I am is an expert at winding people up and you lot were game. I will be back in January and standby for some more sucker them in subjects for you to bite on..

Thanks! I mean that sincerely, I have a lot of fun responding to windups. Enjoy your holiday, see you in Jan. :D

cls
18-12-2003, 10:47
Shows what a sad son of unmarried parents you are.

Hope you are the only passenger on a doomed plane (crew had chutes of course).

Most people using this type of chat/forum/web pages do so because they have brains and like to communicate with people for whatever good, justifiable and interesting reason.

Your tiny pea of a brain was fired into action by a nice request from a person in Moscow trying to find her feet.

I hope you obtained great pleasure from leading us up the garden path.

But I suppose someone with that sort of sence of humour, is hugely short of REAL friends and has no other option.

Skyguy
18-12-2003, 11:56
SF John, I take it all back mate, I had you down as a complete write off and you'll do for me so brace your self in the new year "for is it a wind up" or "for real" threads. CLS you appear to have no sense of humour, look at my very first comment on this topic and you will see how far " the players" took it without too much intervention from me. SF J is man enough to see it for what it was and has my respect for his reply. You mate, having accused me of being of dubious parentage just prove my points in earlier replies. What you are not aware of is my personal apology to the initiator "Reveal" for making her the target of the thread. So CLS as I slide down the bannister of life I will remember YOU as the splinter in my arse..! Nice one SF J

cls
18-12-2003, 12:02
Thank you for the clarification on your parenthood, intelligence, sence of humour, honesty, integrity (re: Reveal) and strategic thinking.

As for the bannister......I would find it hard to insert myself anywhere on your rearend as OBVIOUSLY, your very big head is rammed fully up the only hole that welcomes you in this city.

Lots of love and I look forward to hearing from you again.

Skyguy
18-12-2003, 12:13
Your doing quite well old chap on your own, you need no assistance from me in your endevours to look even more crass than before. Your playing into my hands by keeping the thread going. Two things fall from the sky: Para's and Birdshit, I was a Para guess that make you the other one then..! Wise up pal the longer you continue so will I. And being a former para (hence skyguy), I can draw down on more experience than you, for 25 years I was messed about by experts. Definition of ex pert is 1. Has been 2. A jet of liquid. Too profound for you.? Guess which you are.

cls
18-12-2003, 12:20
Interesting comments from a squaddie!!!!

Could not make it into the officers mess eh????

Strange that people who start wind ups cannot see when they are being wound up themselves.

Game, set and match I think.

Oh! by the way and for your information, I was a Captain in the RAF, flew fast assault/attack aircraft for 12 years.

Flew in two war zones, 28 sorties, 2 kills....and......crashed my plane due to low fuel/fuel leak caused by a stray peice of metal from a surface to air missle.

These words are my assing comments on the subject.

Happy Christmas.

Skyguy
18-12-2003, 12:29
WRONG AGAIN..! Crab Air (Army slang for RAF) took my commission the real way started at the bottom, accepted a QM Commission in the rank of RSM, hence 25 yrs service. Flew "over" two war zones, bit differant when you go home for tea than drinking it in hole in the ground, waiting for you arseholes to overshoot or drop us in a canal outside Hamburg. Better yet dropping resupply or ordnance on top of us. The most I ever lost was and empty magazine, you lose a multi million dollar sky chariot from a SAM probably fired by the RAF Regiment as they failed to identify you. IFF on the blink again.?

Tintin
18-12-2003, 12:33
yawn

sfjohns67
18-12-2003, 12:35
Dang, I always considered myself a flaming heterosexual, but I have to admit - all this manly weiner comparison from you boys is making me hhhhhhhOT!

You sweethearts cut it out, now, or I'm gonna' hafta embarrass myself and run to the bathroom for a quick toss. :eek:

Skyguy
18-12-2003, 12:37
And who the hell asked you to butt in Tintin you gay faggot. "Tintin" where do get off with a handle like that, this is a mans room, not for 33 yr old gays. Bugger off ,me CLS are having a real battle.

Skyguy
18-12-2003, 12:39
SFJ don't get jealous, Tintin will take the strain for you..!

cls
18-12-2003, 12:40
SKYGUY.....

You and me for once are on the same side.

Power up!!!!

sfjohns67
18-12-2003, 12:45
Seriously, CLS and Sky - nice to hear interservice rivalry barking, myself been out of the USAF a couple years after 13 years of joint-service duty, kinda' miss all that fun "mine is bigger than yours" conversation.

Cheers to both a' yous, you may resume. :cool:

Skyguy
18-12-2003, 12:45
CLS : Pimms at four old chap..! Quick chukka or mess rugby suit you, before the gal's come later to dine. Or we could watch Tintin knocking one out behind the bin's.

cls
18-12-2003, 12:54
SKYGUY.....

With ref to your somewhat outdated views (true in the past) on RAF officers......I was born in East London, fought everyday, went Pakki bashing (sorry my asian brothers, I was young and influenced), was thrown out of more bars and clubs etc, then I care to remember.

Grew up suddenly, went to Uni in the Eastern Block, obtained a degree, obtained private pilots license, entered RAF as cannon fodder, entered flight/officers school....and the rest is history.

HATE pimms, but could smash a few samagons with you.

As for Tintin....HHHMMM nice boy, but no good in a war....always at the rear!!!!

As for paras, I love them really. They do the work and all the sh---y stuff whilst us fly boys zip around at mach 1.7 at 30k pulling 4-5G on a inward escape turn.

My guts are still up there somewhere.

Bravo Indian Whisky 81 (my call sign, aaahhhhh happy days), out.

Skyguy
18-12-2003, 13:11
In bound Bogey, sounds like a klingon snotter. Gotta get some lunch catch you later, watch your 6 ..!Tintin is out there lurking.

cls
18-12-2003, 13:51
Sierra..Kilo..Yankee..Golf..Uniform..Yankee

(thats SKYGUY for those of you wwho are wondering what the hell I am talking about)

This is Bravo Whiskey India 81, inbound and smoking. Weapons armed, System locked, drop 2, 30 seconds, 750 knots pull out Lima left, climb-Alpha25.

I think you have been watching too much Reach for the Sky, Topgun and Star Trek for your own good.

Missed your earlier comments about canals, Hamburg, ordance etc. Very funny and strangly true. Obviously this is something our friend from the USAF can help us on as they are the worlds leaders at 'friendly fire'.

Bravo Whiskey India 81, hot tail, climbing high-Alpha35, out and home.

Thats an affirmitive on leaving you guys in the trenches SKYGUY.
By the way, you obviously missed my comments earlier. I said that I had great respect for the land forces.

As for Tintin please.....his world is somewhat different to ours. We see things face on, he always see thing from 'behind'

Midas
18-12-2003, 14:03
cls' wiener looks bigger so far :)

cls
18-12-2003, 14:05
Midas....

True my friend, true and remember.......

You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead - Laurel and Hardy.

Midas
18-12-2003, 14:07
cls, lol!

legspreader
18-12-2003, 14:20
Originally posted by Skyguy
SorryDarling, Iv'e been here four month's and leave this friday for good. Good luck in your quest and for your time in the Dullest City in the World.
man you've got to be kidding this the dullest city in the world...
Did you live in a closet the four months you were here. moscow is many things dull is not one of them by a long shot....

Skyguy
18-12-2003, 14:46
Legspreader, get with the plot and read ALL the pages and you will surely be better informed to comment accurately.

cls
18-12-2003, 14:52
SKYGUY

leave him alone.....he is not in our 'sights'........proberbly would be a radar operator or another 'safe' behind....well behind, the lines occupation.

Skyguy
18-12-2003, 14:56
You mean a "REMF" Rear Echelon Mother F....r. Roger that Bravo India..! Papa 21 charlie out.

sfjohns67
18-12-2003, 14:58
Originally posted by cls
Obviously this is something our friend from the USAF can help us on as they are the worlds leaders at 'friendly fire'.
I ain't touchin' that 'un with my ten-foot pole.

Skyguy
18-12-2003, 14:59
Wise man SFJ, not our problem any more.

Braders
18-12-2003, 15:35
Glad i didn't stick my oar in :p, i was tempted earlier on, but it was just a little bit too obvious that the first reply was a wind-up.

Skyhigh don't bother with any witty comebacks...i know, i'm a smartarse :D

back in January can't wait!

cls
18-12-2003, 15:37
Yeh right......you knew.

You did not stick your oar in because you have nothing interesting to say.

SKYGUY.......lock and load.

Braders
18-12-2003, 15:40
Be honest...what could possibly be interesting to say in this thread?, i've read better in The Sun.

Ned Kelly
18-12-2003, 16:13
that's a gross insult to the Sun, which can be witty and entertaining.

Intourist
18-12-2003, 16:25
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