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ExpatGlobal
13-04-2012, 23:17
Hello,

We are moving this summer with kids going to AAS.

What do you think about the neighborhood of Metro Belorusskaya for children 10 to 14 Year old ?

Is it a family friendly place with parks and shopping ?

Is it a place to meet both Russian going to ASS and other expat families ?

Does AAS has a bus from Metro Belorusskaya ? How long does it really take to go to the school and come back by bus/car ?

Thank you for your help

Samodika
13-04-2012, 23:39
Hello,

We are moving this summer with kids going to AAS.

What do you think about the neighborhood of Metro Belorusskaya for children 10 to 14 Year old ?

Is it a family friendly place with parks and shopping ?

Is it a place to meet both Russian going to ASS and other expat families ?

Does AAS has a bus from Metro Belorusskaya ? How long does it really take to go to the school and come back by bus/car ?

Thank you for your help

Hi
Have to say that center of Moscow is not family friendly - we do not have many parks; especially in a walking distance. There is a railway station close to Belorusskaya from one side of Leningradskoye highway, on the opposite side - there are business centers.
Also not so many shops in that area - neither food shops nor others.
The main benefit of that particular location - 2 tube lines and that it still is the center of Moscow.

Jack17
14-04-2012, 00:07
All Moskva is family friendly - if you're the Adams Family.

martpark
14-04-2012, 02:21
Hello,

We are moving this summer with kids going to AAS.

What do you think about the neighborhood of Metro Belorusskaya for children 10 to 14 Year old ?

Is it a family friendly place with parks and shopping ?

Is it a place to meet both Russian going to ASS and other expat families ?

Does AAS has a bus from Metro Belorusskaya ? How long does it really take to go to the school and come back by bus/car ?

Thank you for your help
I don't know anyone who takes their kids there and AAS is quite far out of the centre. There are some high-rise flats with security/parking in Strogino, Tushino, and Shchukino which are close to the school and most likely to have bus service. Belorusskaya is not bad but fewer parks than the others mentioned.

Periwinkle
14-04-2012, 10:49
I think you will be able to walk to a grocery store and there are a lot of cafes and restaurants. It is not really a green area though. I can think of one small park that I have seen in the area.
I think Sokol may be a little greener in parts and a bit closer to the school.
I would ask the school where bus service runs to and how long is the estimated ride for different locations.

FatAndy
14-04-2012, 13:28
I can think of one small park that I have seen in the area.
Exactly. This area of concrete jungle has only small Miussky Skver (~100*100 m), near RGGU campus (former Higher Party School). There are some trees in those yards around, but they don't form green areas.

annasophia
14-04-2012, 14:08
AAS is approximately $30,000 per student per year. (At least twice the annual income of the average Muscovite?)

What we have here is yet another over-funded exponentially spoiled expat floating at the top of the world's living standards, looking at living in an expensive Moscow neighborhood (undoubtedly company subsidized) whinging about the proximity of parks....and shopping....and access to other >gak< expat families?

Please excuse me. I am a kind person with a good heart. But when I see posts like this, my head explodes. :vampire:

When oh when, will these First World entitled carpetbaggers find another country to victimize with their privilege? Surely there are more lucrative locations where their excessive expectations and privilege can be better met?

(I am containing my fury here.....)

@ExpatGlobal
There are approximately 10-20 MILLION people in the Moscow Metro area--many with children!--who survive nicely and with happiness on 1/100th of the resources that you have at your disposal. They do it in all kinds of neighborhoods and in all kinds of schools, they do it under 10 feet of snow in winter, month after month, year after year. They do it without subsidies or drivers or nannies or cooks. Their children grow well, everyone goes about their day-to-day business, life moves forward even when door to door chauffered comfort isn't guaranteed.

I doubt your 10 & 14 year old kinder will be permanently scarred if neighborhood perfection is not achieved during their [fleeting] residence in Moscow.

Best wishes for your brief Russian stay-
Annasophia

FatAndy
14-04-2012, 14:16
Annasophia,
The question was about m. Belorusskaya neighbourhood, not living standards, expectations ets ;)

annasophia
14-04-2012, 14:28
Geez Andy, I can't take it.....

I'm a total junkie for the Home and Garden TV channel, especially House Hunters International. I always love how Americans go to some other country, I saw an episode with a couple from Hoboken, New Jersey :eek: who complained about every foreign property they looked at and said "...but in Hoboken :eek:... we have big closets and we had a three car garage and a big back yard and this property isn't anything like Hoboken...."

No Really? You mean Brussels/Slovakia/Minsk isn't like Hoboken? (Maybe you should have stayed home in Hoboken and enjoyed all the fun?). Gah.

Sparafucile
14-04-2012, 14:49
I lived at Belorusskaya - right on Tishinskaya ploschad' - for 8 years.

It remains my favourite part of Moscow, and has a special character and its own atmosphere.

But forget parks - you're right in the city-centre of Europe's second-largest capital city there.

PeterM
14-04-2012, 15:39
Please excuse me. I am a kind person with a good heart. But when I see posts like this, my head explodes. :vampire:

Best wishes for your brief Russian stay-
Annasophia

I had a lot of fun reading your post but I think You must be very bitter/jealous about other's people money or you're a fighting commie.

Being an expat myself, yes with a subsidized apartment which I think now is grossly overpaid, I can explain to you that no company likes to waste money on expats. The only reason we're here is the lack of the required skill-set in the local job market. Believe me, if my employer could find a Russian to do my job, they wouldn't think about it even for five minutes. I certainly hope it will happen in the not so distant future.

Samodika
14-04-2012, 15:50
I had a lot of fun reading your post but I think You must be very bitter/jealous about other's people money or you're a fighting commie.

Being an expat myself, yes with a subsidized apartment which I think now is grossly overpaid, I can explain to you that no company likes to waste money on expats. The only reason we're here is the lack of the required skill-set in the local job market. Believe me, if my employer could find a Russian to do my job, they wouldn't think about it even for five minutes. I certainly hope it will happen in the not so distant future.

It is not about jealousy.
I personally know 2 expat ladies - they live in the very center of Moscow, walking distance to the tube, do not work + a driver + cleaning lady. And they still moan they cannot live in the city... And then I know russian ladies who spend 1.5 - 2h to get to the office, no driver, no cleaning lady, little children...and they DON'T complain... and even more or less happy... (I am not talking about myself, as fortunately I am somewhere in the middle between these two groups).
And they send expats here for some other reasons as there are lots of duly qualified professionals in Moscow. Probably it is easier when someone from the HQ arrives to the Russian Office to introduce internal policies or manage the team after acquisition or whatsoever

PeterM
14-04-2012, 15:58
And they still moan they cannot live in the city...

Probably it is easier when someone from the HQ arrives to the Russian Office to introduce internal policies or manage the team after acquisition or whatsoever

I haven't noticed ExpatGlobal moaning about anything...

You just described skills which in this case are certainly missing so they need to bring an expat.

Samodika
14-04-2012, 16:07
I haven't noticed ExpatGlobal moaning about anything...

You just described skills which in this case are certainly missing so they need to bring an expat.

My post was to support Annasophia as I fully agree with her.

But then expats move back to their home-countries and Russian Offices still can perform well with local professionals. But during 1-3 years while expats are here, their companies waste A LOT of money as Russia is deemed to be quite a dangerous, uncomfortable, expensive country...and those beliefs (partly) come from over-spoiled people requiring the most expensive services to be provided as a compensation package


But we are off-topic already...

robertmf
14-04-2012, 16:26
All Moskva is family friendly - if you're the Adams Family.

Give me two 'd's in Addams please :)

Addams Family Values - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FatAndy
14-04-2012, 16:35
Geez Andy, I can't take it.....

I'm a total junkie for the Home and Garden TV channel, especially House Hunters International. I always love how Americans go to some other country, I saw an episode with a couple from Hoboken, New Jersey :eek: who complained about every foreign property they looked at and said "...but in Hoboken :eek:... we have big closets and we had a three car garage and a big back yard and this property isn't anything like Hoboken...."

No Really? You mean Brussels/Slovakia/Minsk isn't like Hoboken? (Maybe you should have stayed home in Hoboken and enjoyed all the fun?). Gah.

Well, I agree with you in the most of your perception... in general... ;) but...

I saw only question about the neigbourhood from the future "novice" in Moscow. And no questions from OP yet about big closets, 3-car garage or smth like this, besides usual interest about neigbourhood and transportation.

Yes, I know that AAS costs some money, and companies spend a good pieces on expats. But it is their, companies' @#$%&* business, no?

And, going deeper off-topic, would you be invited to work at such conditions to Moscow, will you reject the proposal? ;)

Samodika
14-04-2012, 17:46
I lived at Belorusskaya - right on Tishinskaya ploschad' - for 8 years.

It remains my favourite part of Moscow, and has a special character and its own atmosphere.

But forget parks - you're right in the city-centre of Europe's second-largest capital city there.

Isn't it closer to Mayakovskaya tube?

robertmf
14-04-2012, 17:56
Geez Andy, I can't take it.....

I'm a total junkie for the Home and Garden TV channel, especially House Hunters International. I always love how Americans go to some other country, I saw an episode with a couple from Hoboken, New Jersey :eek: who complained about every foreign property they looked at and said "...but in Hoboken :eek:... we have big closets and we had a three car garage and a big back yard and this property isn't anything like Hoboken...."

No Really? You mean Brussels/Slovakia/Minsk isn't like Hoboken? (Maybe you should have stayed home in Hoboken and enjoyed all the fun?). Gah.

Hoboken (http://cooperator.com/articles/689/1/The-Sixth-Borough/Page1.html) is a US national joke ;) :)

Sparafucile
14-04-2012, 18:05
Isn't it closer to Mayakovskaya tube?

Living there for 8 years, I had plenty of opportunities to check that :) In fact Yandex Maps said that there was a 38-metre difference in the walking distance, but Belorusskaya was fractionally closer :) And you get two lines to choose from there :)

Also it's a more boring walk to Mayakovskaya, because there are no shops or services along 1aya or 2aya Brestskaya, and then when you get to Triumphalnaya ploschad' there are always roadworks getting in your way.

Of course, it was slightly more impressive to say I lived at Mayakovskaya :)

For a lot of the time I lived at Tishinka the northern vestibule of Mayakovskaya was shut for rebuilding work, too. But you can see how tiny the differences really were :) And there was always the danger of disappearing into Respublica bookshop, and spending my entire disposable income there :) What is generally very good around there is that it's a place where a lot of 'creative' people live. It means that if you 'need' them (or just like them!), there are lots of places like Respublica, also a very handy branch of CopyMax (not only copies, but full-colour posters, architectural-size plotter prints, etc), and a good artistic & graphic-design shop (Peredvizhnik). And an organic food store (sort of).

Samodika
14-04-2012, 18:14
Living there for 8 years, I had plenty of opportunities to check that :) In fact Yandex Maps said that there was a 38-metre difference in the walking distance, but Belorusskaya was fractionally closer :) And you get two lines to choose from there :)

Also it's a more boring walk to Mayakovskaya, because there are no shops or services along 1aya or 2aya Brestskaya, and then when you get to Triumphalnaya ploschad' there are always roadworks getting in your way.

Of course, it was slightly more impressive to say I lived at Mayakovskaya :)

For a lot of the time I lived at Tishinka the northern vestibule of Mayakovskaya was shut for rebuilding work, too. But you can see how tiny the differences really were :) And there was always the danger of disappearing into Respublica bookshop, and spending my entire disposable income there :) What is generally very good around there is that it's a place where a lot of 'creative' people live. It means that if you 'need' them (or just like them!), there are lots of places like Respublica, also a very handy branch of CopyMax (not only copies, but full-colour posters, architectural-size plotter prints, etc), and a good artistic & graphic-design shop (Peredvizhnik). And an organic food store (sort of).

The matter is that I was living at Skakovaya street (the area behind the Belorusskiy railway station) and besides good (close) location to my former office and tube, I cannot think of any other benefits :) But Tishinka is really nice, has its special atmosphere, and a lot more shops, restaurants etc than my former area :)

Periwinkle
14-04-2012, 18:14
yikes, Annasophia, what is wrong with wanting to live in a green area? Plenty of Russians do as well.
Plenty of Russians have cooks, cleaners, nannies and drivers.
Plenty of Russians moan about long commutes....
Not that the OP was moaning - they were only asking a few questions...

As for your gripe about Americans buying homes overseas (which again Russians do as well) I suggest changing the channel and taking a yoga class.

FatAndy
14-04-2012, 18:21
I suggest changing the channel and taking a yoga class.
Yoga is FULL off-topic here!!! :mad: :D

robertmf
14-04-2012, 18:32
Yoga is FULL off-topic here!!! :mad: :D

:evilgrin: If not yoga, then ...

Pilates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jack17
14-04-2012, 18:36
AAS is approximately $30,000 per student per year. (At least twice the annual income of the average Muscovite?)

What we have here is yet another over-funded exponentially spoiled expat floating at the top of the world's living standards, looking at living in an expensive Moscow neighborhood (undoubtedly company subsidized) whinging about the proximity of parks....and shopping....and access to other >gak< expat families?

Please excuse me. I am a kind person with a good heart. But when I see posts like this, my head explodes. :vampire:

When oh when, will these First World entitled carpetbaggers find another country to victimize with their privilege? Surely there are more lucrative locations where their excessive expectations and privilege can be better met?

(I am containing my fury here.....)

@ExpatGlobal
There are approximately 10-20 MILLION people in the Moscow Metro area--many with children!--who survive nicely and with happiness on 1/100th of the resources that you have at your disposal. They do it in all kinds of neighborhoods and in all kinds of schools, they do it under 10 feet of snow in winter, month after month, year after year. They do it without subsidies or drivers or nannies or cooks. Their children grow well, everyone goes about their day-to-day business, life moves forward even when door to door chauffered comfort isn't guaranteed.

I doubt your 10 & 14 year old kinder will be permanently scarred if neighborhood perfection is not achieved during their [fleeting] residence in Moscow.

Best wishes for your brief Russian stay-
Annasophia
Yeah, I know how you feel; actually, I'm just envious because I would like to land one of those jobs. But why blame the people who get them? In most cases, they've done what I'm not willing to do - work hard. Do you really want to sell your soul to a big corporation? You know there's no free lunch.

Anyway, even these people are very far down the food chain. If you want to blame someone, try the people at the top of the food chain who control the system: VVP, Sobyanin, Chubais, etc.

FatAndy
14-04-2012, 19:41
If you want to blame someone, try the people at the top of the food chain who control the system: VVP, Sobyanin, Chubais, etc.
In fact, those who REALLY control the state system (and conected structures), never appear in the news. Usually, if we take abstract "ministry" of RF, they're 1st-2nd person after the minister - i.e. deputies ;), although they aren't on the top of the chain.

PeterM
14-04-2012, 20:48
Do you really want to sell your soul to a big corporation?

Well, it's really more like an army than devil. Chain of command, strict orders, and no personal freedom. Above the certain level it all becomes about politics :bowdown:

Anyway, even these people are very far down the food chain.

True. Contrary to the popular beliefs expat salaries are in reality not that much higher compared to what they could earn back home.

Samodika
14-04-2012, 21:22
True. Contrary to the popular beliefs expat salaries are in reality not that much higher compared to what they could earn back home.

Then why do you (not you personally) accept such offers? )

PeterM
14-04-2012, 23:01
Then why do you (not you personally) accept such offers? )

Well, there are many reasons. Get experience, upgrade skills, get nice point on your resume and so on. I think the most important is if you want to advance you just don't say no when you're asked to do something. Well, you can say NO, of course, and you won't lose your job, but it usually means you will not be asked anything a second time.

ExpatGlobal
16-04-2012, 01:49
Geez Andy, I can't take it.....
I'm a total junkie for the Home and Garden TV channel...

Maybe you should stop watching stupid TV shows and start talking to real people. The "ugly American' stereotype is as valid as saying Russians are all alcoholic corrupt and not very tolerant. BTW I am not American and have lived abroad probably more years than your age :-). So take your pills and cool down, this is an expat support forum right ?

ExpatGlobal
16-04-2012, 01:56
The only reason we're here is the lack of the required skill-set in the local job market. Believe me, if my employer could find a Russian to do my job, they wouldn't think about it even for five minutes. I certainly hope it will happen in the not so distant future.

Thanks Peter, this is already the case in many countries in Asia top executives are locals or foreign locals.

ExpatGlobal
16-04-2012, 02:33
But then expats move back to their home-countries...But we are off-topic already...

Yes it is out of topic and I thank everybody who gave me useful information about the area of Belorusskaya.

I have never been in Russia before and I won't get any discovery trip or meeting with Russians before I move so I rely on forum like this one to gather practical information from people living there.

Shall I judge all Russians based on your comments? Of course not :-)

Kiwiexpat
16-04-2012, 06:27
For a person with a kind heart, that came across a little bitter!

I can completely understand your frustration with what you interpret as spoiled Americans. I'd be sick to death of hearing people complain about my country/city of residence too, especially if they appear to have made no effort to embrace the 'challenges' of living in Moscow.

But then again, if I felt as passionately about this topic as you seem to, I probably wouldn't frequent a forum for expats. That's just going to push buttons unnecessarily, I would think.

However, I liked they way you put this part of your comment...

"There are approximately 10-20 MILLION people in the Moscow Metro area--many with children!--who survive nicely and with happiness on 1/100th of the resources that you have at your disposal. They do it in all kinds of neighborhoods and in all kinds of schools, they do it under 10 feet of snow in winter, month after month, year after year. They do it without subsidies or drivers or nannies or cooks. Their children grow well, everyone goes about their day-to-day business, life moves forward even when door to door chauffered comfort isn't guaranteed."

...but would also like to add that I am assuming that the 10-20 MILLION people you speak of have a pretty good grasp of the Russian language & have grown up enveloped in the Russian culture.
That probably helps life go a tad more smoothly.

FatAndy
16-04-2012, 12:02
Yes it is out of topic and I thank everybody who gave me useful information about the area of Belorusskaya.

I have never been in Russia before and I won't get any discovery trip or meeting with Russians before I move so I rely on forum like this one to gather practical information from people living there.

Just to summarise...
1) AAS is located at Beregovaya ul., 1. http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CNeZIIZM
2) Nearby (just in 400 m) is Pokrovskoe-Streshnevo park with not a bad infrastructure.
3) Nearest metro stations are Tushinskaya + Schukinskaya (purple line, near Volokolamskoe shosse) and Voikovskaya + Sokol (green line, Leningradskoe shosse).

Consider to search for accomodation in that area (well developed now) to save time. If your job is located somewhere along that metro lines, it will be a plus, otherwise you may spend several hours a day in the traffic.

Sparafucile
16-04-2012, 13:01
Consider to search for accomodation in that area (well developed now) to save time..

Exactamundo! Leningradskoe Chausee is a traffic blackspot, and if it comes into your commute... then develop a taste for listening to the radio in the car ;)

Nobbynumbnuts
16-04-2012, 14:31
.But forget parks - you're right in the city-centre of Europe's second-largest capital city there.

Moscow is Europe's largest capital city. In fact it's Europe's largest city, full stop. :soccer:

Samodika
16-04-2012, 14:58
Yes it is out of topic and I thank everybody who gave me useful information about the area of Belorusskaya.

I have never been in Russia before and I won't get any discovery trip or meeting with Russians before I move so I rely on forum like this one to gather practical information from people living there.

Shall I judge all Russians based on your comments? Of course not :-)

I am sorry for all the off-top :)
But since you have never been to Moscow, then you need to be prepared to:
- lack of parks (we do have a few, but comparing to, say, London, we have nothing);
- terrible traffic - a trip that normally should take 15-20 min driving (say from Belorusskaya to Begovaya where they say AAS is located) will actually take you 1 - 1.5 in one way;
- tube is a much better idea for moving around the city;
- not everyone speaks English (of course there are lots of those who do, but staff in all kind of shops tend to speak Russian only);
- different mentality of local people (it was discussed in some othre thread on this forum "why russians never smile" or smth like that);
- we have a 6-month winter and crave for seeing the sun;
- prices in general are about 1.5 - 2 higher than everywhere

I am neither pessimistic nor negative now, but this is the reality in which it is still possible to live :) And if you can cope with it (depends on your attitude etc, but seeing your positive reaction to our not very welcome posts, I am sure you will be fine) then you will enjoy your stay in Moscow as to the other hand it is a great city.

So, welcome!

Sparafucile
16-04-2012, 16:09
Moscow is Europe's largest capital city. In fact it's Europe's largest city, full stop. :soccer:

By population and by area London is larger, officially.

It's because Moscow's city limits are drawn so close to the centre - all those areas like Khimki & Podolsk are separate city administrations. And although Moscow's official population is large, it's squashed into an area almost half of London's.

Just saying.

robertmf
16-04-2012, 16:49
By population and by area London is larger, officially.

It's because Moscow's city limits are drawn so close to the centre - all those areas like Khimki & Podolsk are separate city administrations. And although Moscow's official population is large, it's squashed into an area almost half of London's.

Just saying.

Don't the Russians/VVP know about public domain acquisition :question: :doh: I mean, there is **rather** a bit of land around Moscow, eh wot :question:

Shiat - if moustaches were around, he'd just bulldozer area around Moscow centre and build wedding cake apartment tenements.

Sparafucile
16-04-2012, 17:21
[COLOR="DarkRed"]Don't the Russians/VVP know about public domain acquisition

Oh, I think they are fully up to speed with that :)

It's just that the huge conurbation with Moscow at its centre isn't all technically Moscow. Unless you looked at the roadsigns, you wouldn't even know you were in a different jurisdiction...

... but most of Moscow's suburbs aren't actually 'Moscow'... so the people who live in them don't count towards the Moscow population-count.

Of course in practice they are part of the same place.

And this is all set to change, because the new Moscow Mayor wants to blaze a trail southwards. His new Moscow city boundaries will enlarge the city (and, errr, his authority!) by almost double. Huge areas south of Moscow will be swallowed-up by this vast new urban entity.

That doesn't mean that a 'new Moscow' will be built. It means that existing areas which are not under Moscow City jurisdiction will become parts of Moscow. They'll get Moscow postcodes, Moscow public transport, Moscow car-registration plates - and their taxes will get swallowed into Moscow's city budget.

onemoreexpat
16-04-2012, 17:29
Speaking as a person who works at Belaruskaya (and looking out of my window I can see the beauty that is the train station) I would say that it is not a bad area. There are a number of rather nice restaurants in the surrounding streets, and the streets by and inbetween the two Gruzinskayas are nice. Downsides are the massive roadworks in the whole area that currently blight it and don't appear to ever have any chance of finishing, the general scumminess at the front of the train station (in common with most other major train stations in most cities!) and general lack of greenery etc. It all really depends on where you work and where you need to get to. The issue with traffic cannot really be overstated! I walk to work which is great, and live near Patriachs pond which is pretty green and quiet, though generally overpriced.

ExpatGlobal
16-04-2012, 18:51
...but seeing your positive reaction to our not very welcome posts, I am sure you will be fine) then you will enjoy your stay in Moscow as to the other hand it is a great city.
So, welcome!

Thank you Samodika, I really appreciate the welcome. I have lived and worked in very expensive big cities and cheap suburbs and always adapted very well.

When you have kids it is a bit complicated and at age 10 or 14 they cannot go to local public schools because even if most expat kids are bilingual and good at languages, it is not realistic they learn the local language fast enough.

Another reason to send kids to international schools is to make sure that they can continue their curriculum in English no matter where they go next after 3 years. That is why ALL international schools in the world have such insane pricing, expats have no choice.

For the commute I put my kids well being first and FatAndy is probably right about looking apartments near the school and then we will have to pay inflated rental costs just because other expats think the same.

Regarding motivation to go to Russia, in my case it is a lifestyle choice to discover a totally new culture and money cannot be the only motive because Russia costs 3 to 5 times more for housing, food and clothing than living in the USA, especially compared to suburbs like Hoboken New Jersey :)

I have bought the Rosetta-Stone to start learning Russian.....

FatAndy
16-04-2012, 19:22
I have bought the Rosetta-Stone to start learning Russian.....
Generally it is not so needed. But it's better to learn alphabet and pronunciation in the beginning.

Regarding the rest - it depends how long do you plan to stay in RF. If it will be long enough - take MGU (better) or RGGU (closer) language courses. Then start to talk to babushki and sales ppl in shops ;)

Et oui, soyez les bienvenus la Russie, Madame! ;)


then develop a taste for listening to the radio in the car ;)
Very interesting point of view, comrade... :D First time I hear that a taste is needed to listen continuous advertising, occassionally interrupted by music... ;)

Nobbynumbnuts
16-04-2012, 20:52
By population and by area London is larger, officially.

It's because Moscow's city limits are drawn so close to the centre - all those areas like Khimki & Podolsk are separate city administrations. And although Moscow's official population is large, it's squashed into an area almost half of London's.

Just saying.

I haven't seen any lists of the largest cities in europe that puts London ahead of Moscow. I have however, seen one that states Istanbul is the largest in Europe.

In fact, Moscow is always ranked ahead of London in the largest cities in the world. Getting all the lists to agree a figure as to the populations is impossible but Moscow is always ahead.

City's are usualy graded by population when comparing sizes, not the area.

ExpatGlobal
16-04-2012, 22:07
Generally it is not so needed. But it's better to learn alphabet and pronunciation in the beginning. Regarding the rest - it depends how long do you plan to stay in RF.

Well minimum 3 years is long enough to get basic survival I guess, probably not doing business but that is a whole different topic... Yes I know plenty expat women who work and have businesses while living abroad even in Moscow and I will be one of them :cheerleader:


If it will be long enough - take MGU (better) or RGGU (closer) language courses

Great resources thank you, language group classes in universities is a great idea to meet people.


Et oui, soyez les bienvenus la Russie, Madame! ;)
Dammed ! I am caught ! :clown: Merci et au plaisir de vous rencontrer a Moscou.

FatAndy
16-04-2012, 22:27
Dammed ! I am caught ! :clown: Merci et au plaisir de vous rencontrer a Moscou.

Don't put real country of origin into open member profile then ;) I hope you'll like Russia.

martpark
16-04-2012, 23:14
I am sorry for all the off-top :)
But since you have never been to Moscow, then you need to be prepared to:
- lack of parks (we do have a few, but comparing to, say, London, we have nothing);
- terrible traffic - a trip that normally should take 15-20 min driving (say from Belorusskaya to Begovaya where they say AAS is located) will actually take you 1 - 1.5 in one way;
- tube is a much better idea for moving around the city;
- not everyone speaks English (of course there are lots of those who do, but staff in all kind of shops tend to speak Russian only);
- different mentality of local people (it was discussed in some othre thread on this forum "why russians never smile" or smth like that);
- we have a 6-month winter and crave for seeing the sun;
- prices in general are about 1.5 - 2 higher than everywhere

I am neither pessimistic nor negative now, but this is the reality in which it is still possible to live :) And if you can cope with it (depends on your attitude etc, but seeing your positive reaction to our not very welcome posts, I am sure you will be fine) then you will enjoy your stay in Moscow as to the other hand it is a great city.

So, welcome!

Good post but one correction. AAS is not near Metro Begovaya but on Ul. Beregovaya, further north. Just so the OP doesn't get confused.

ExpatGlobal
17-04-2012, 01:04
Don't put real country of origin into open member profile then ;) I hope you'll like Russia.

Andy, Thanks for the tip :thumbsup: Hopefully I am not that paranoid to the point to hide the fact that I was born in France although sometimes I wish to tell I am from another country/planet just because of the stereotypes.:nut: and I don't feel "typical" after so many years living abroad :alien:

There is also a positive effect in all the countries I lived, "local" people who took the effort to learn French are happy to talk with me. True also the fact that when you are a minority, other members of that minority usually understand you and support you.

I have read on another forum that many Russian expats experienced nostalgia for the "Славянская душа" or "Slavic soul " is that true ? At school in France, we studied Russian authors like Dostoyevsky, maybe I should (re) read those books again rather than attending cross-cultural training programs :D

:redcard: ?:11030: Sorry, definitively off-topic, but so funny what simple questions can do ;) !

FatAndy
17-04-2012, 09:27
Andy, Thanks for the tip :thumbsup: Hopefully I am not that paranoid to the point to hide the fact that I was born in France although sometimes I wish to tell I am from another country/planet just because of the stereotypes.:nut: and I don't feel "typical" after so many years living abroad :alien:

There is also a positive effect in all the countries I lived, "local" people who took the effort to learn French are happy to talk with me. True also the fact that when you are a minority, other members of that minority usually understand you and support you.

I have read on another forum that many Russian expats experienced nostalgia for the "Славянская душа" or "Slavic soul " is that true ? At school in France, we studied Russian authors like Dostoyevsky, maybe I should (re) read those books again rather than attending cross-cultural training programs :D

:redcard: ?:11030: Sorry, definitively off-topic, but so funny what simple questions can do ;) !
Comments starting from the end...
1) That's what is special in forums - threads started on one question flow to anothers and live on their own (at least here, on expat.ru).

2) My most experience abroad is connected with business trips (2-3 days to 1-2 weeks) - generally it's not enough to start nostagia...

3) Don't expect too much support in Moscow, at least for first brief relations with people. They're too occupied with their own problems, live in crazy rhytm and just have no time and wish to do it. It changes step by step when you become more familiar with them. But this forum and its members usualy are very helpful ;)

4) Stereotypes exist everywhere. If you have any, I wish you to have only positive experience when they will be broken ;)

Kiwiexpat
21-04-2012, 14:39
Speaking as a person who works at Belaruskaya (and looking out of my window I can see the beauty that is the train station) I would say that it is not a bad area. There are a number of rather nice restaurants in the surrounding streets, and the streets by and inbetween the two Gruzinskayas are nice. Downsides are the massive roadworks in the whole area that currently blight it and don't appear to ever have any chance of finishing, the general scumminess at the front of the train station (in common with most other major train stations in most cities!) and general lack of greenery etc. It all really depends on where you work and where you need to get to. The issue with traffic cannot really be overstated! I walk to work which is great, and live near Patriachs pond which is pretty green and quiet, though generally overpriced.

Ha...we must be in the same building...:-)

Sparafucile
21-04-2012, 21:50
threads started on one question flow to anothers and live on their own (at least here, on expat.ru).)

Threads start on a variety of topics, and then flow on to be about GK Chesterton.

And mysteriously this is allowed.

FatAndy
21-04-2012, 21:54
Threads start on a variety of topics, and then flow on to be about GK Chesterton.

And mysteriously this is allowed.

Do you want it like in corrective-labour camp - step left or right is attempt to escape, jumping up is provocation, both to be shooted immediately? ;)

Sparafucile
21-04-2012, 21:58
Do you want it like in corrective-labour camp

You're the expert on Stalinist thuggery & genocidal murder, Andy - so you tell us.

FatAndy
21-04-2012, 22:07
You're the expert on Stalinist thuggery & genocidal murder, Andy - so you tell us.

Pls answer the question - do YOU want moderation in this style? ;)

wmariaw
08-06-2012, 21:12
You sound quite bitter and unhappy with your own life. Just a suggestion, but perhaps you should concentrate less on judging people you don't know anything about and focus more on doing whatever you need to make yourself happier! :)

Best wishes!




AAS is approximately $30,000 per student per year. (At least twice the annual income of the average Muscovite?)

What we have here is yet another over-funded exponentially spoiled expat floating at the top of the world's living standards, looking at living in an expensive Moscow neighborhood (undoubtedly company subsidized) whinging about the proximity of parks....and shopping....and access to other >gak< expat families?

Please excuse me. I am a kind person with a good heart. But when I see posts like this, my head explodes. :vampire:

When oh when, will these First World entitled carpetbaggers find another country to victimize with their privilege? Surely there are more lucrative locations where their excessive expectations and privilege can be better met?

(I am containing my fury here.....)

@ExpatGlobal
There are approximately 10-20 MILLION people in the Moscow Metro area--many with children!--who survive nicely and with happiness on 1/100th of the resources that you have at your disposal. They do it in all kinds of neighborhoods and in all kinds of schools, they do it under 10 feet of snow in winter, month after month, year after year. They do it without subsidies or drivers or nannies or cooks. Their children grow well, everyone goes about their day-to-day business, life moves forward even when door to door chauffered comfort isn't guaranteed.

I doubt your 10 & 14 year old kinder will be permanently scarred if neighborhood perfection is not achieved during their [fleeting] residence in Moscow.

Best wishes for your brief Russian stay-
Annasophia

wmariaw
08-06-2012, 21:42
Hi,

We live right between m. Belorusskaya and m. Dinamo, and our daughter will be attending AAS kindergarten in the fall. I can try to answer your questions, but it's really all very relative and people have different opinions, as you can see from this thread...

1. m. Belorusskaya neighborhood is like any other place in the center of Moscow - it's not particularly green and pleasant-looking, but we find it to be convenient. We happen to like this location for many reasons - close to many place we like in the center, less traffic than other locations in Moscow, and amazing availability of many activities for kids close by (sports, dance, theater clubs, etc.).

2. There is really no such thing as "family friendly" in Moscow, in my opinion... at least not in the same sense that someone who has lived in, say, USA would expect. Moscow definitely takes some getting used to... like any other place, it has its good aspects and its bad aspects... Just be happy that your kids are not babies/toddlers! :) It's definitely NOT a baby-friendly city! So, as far as this issue goes, m. Belorusskaya is not any better or worse than any other part of the city that I know of (unless you are willing to live further outside the city center).

3. You can meet AAS families at orientation and if you get involved in the PTA. And there are many opportunities to meet expats through this site and others, regardless of location in the city (though after reading some of these posts, one may hesitate...). :)


4. I'm pretty sure that AAS does not have a bus from Belorusskaya. I believe the bus info is available somewhere on their web site. They outsourse the bus service, so you may want to just get in touch with the company who does the bussing for them.


5. Distance/time to the school - we've only gone there a few times so far and haven't yet done the morning/afternoon routine, but I think it's not too bad. It took us about 20 min to get to the school by car and about 15-20 min to get back. The good thing is that the school is outside of the city center, which means that you will be going against the traffic, which is mainly heading toward the center in the mornings and heading outside of the center in the afternooons/evenings. Whoever will be driving the kids to school in the morning will have to spend some time in traffic on the way back, though (because they will be heading back toward the center). I have no idea yet how long that would be. Probably no less than 30-45 min, I think, because Volokolamskoe Shosse tends to get backed up.

I hope this helps! Let me know if I can answer any other questions about the area. We moved to this area about 1.5 yrs ago, and I know that I wouldn't want to live in any other neighborhood in this city. Before that, we lived outside of the city in a nice cottage area - green, much clean air, etc., but I hated it. Life in the city is much more interesting - there is so much more to see/do with and without kids!


Best wishes,
Maria.




Hello,

We are moving this summer with kids going to AAS.

What do you think about the neighborhood of Metro Belorusskaya for children 10 to 14 Year old ?

Is it a family friendly place with parks and shopping ?

Is it a place to meet both Russian going to ASS and other expat families ?

Does AAS has a bus from Metro Belorusskaya ? How long does it really take to go to the school and come back by bus/car ?

Thank you for your help

inorcist
09-06-2012, 11:02
this thread is a bit older but having lived at belorusskaya for one year i'll add my thoughts. :-)

when I was living there I liked the area. couldn't really see anything wrong with it and had no intention to ever move away (until my landlady forced me out by wanting 40% more rent).

now, with a more remote view i somewhat changed my mind.

the never-ending constructions sides especially around the railway station and the former watch factory are annoying, especially when you come to realize that there is no progress at all.

maybe i was unlucky with the location of my apartment but i found there was no okayish supermarket anywhere within walking distance.

the metro can get extremely crowded during peak hours when the trains from the region arrive.

If you prefer to live on the dark-green line then in my opinion either sokol or mayakovskaya are better choices. mayakovskaya is more centrish and has a greater variety of shops but is also more polluted and pricier. sokol is greener, i'd consider it more family friendly, but a bit further away.

DiDAN
01-08-2012, 05:03
Location near m. Belorusskaya covers a very, very large area!
You should give more exact location to have a proper answer for your questions.
The best areas in this location is between Barricadnaya and Belorusskaya metro station. You could find Moscow ZOO there, so you've got a "green" place for walk with childrens. Tishinskaya pl. is a vary good location.
There're plenty of good restaurants and cafes like Ragu, Botanika, Bulka, Red Espresso Bar in a walking distance...
If you need more info you could ask me as i live not far from there...

smariannna
21-08-2012, 20:09
:)) nice comment!


All Moskva is family friendly - if you're the Adams Family.

Droidage
22-08-2012, 10:05
Remember this is a forum to help expats; & this newbie is asking for information on this forum, not for pissed off locals to complain about their anti expat feelings or their mortal lot in life.

Magdalina
24-08-2012, 01:31
By my experience (I lived there) this not so good place. We lived directly near station, always there went trains and published noise. With shops there is all good, but parks and places where to take a walk isn't present. Air there is bad.