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Tony P
24-03-2012, 12:58
Bring back the Awesomeness !


How long is temporary?
Drtnsnw has been in the SinBin for nearly two weeks by now.




14-03-2012, 18:59
ezik
Administrator

"The ban was because of breaking a forum rule and is temporary."

Patriots
24-03-2012, 13:25
Bring back the Awesomeness !


How long is temporary?
Drtnsnw has been in the SinBin for nearly two weeks by now.




14-03-2012, 18:59
ezik
Administrator

"The ban was because of breaking a forum rule and is temporary."



Only he could do something to get banned longer without even being here. I think it's been very nice here without him. I'd give him a week or less before he gets banned again.

Judge
24-03-2012, 18:20
Tony ,don't expect much ''Awesomeness'' in the near future...

Tony P
24-03-2012, 20:55
Tony ,don't expect much ''Awesomeness'' in the near future...

Well, what then did Ezik exactly mean by the word 'temporary' on 14th?

And I don't understand Patriot's comment (welcome back after a month's absence, by the way!).
Has the ban been extended? If so, how come?
He has not been able to post so can hardly have broken Forum rules - can he?


As I asked a while ago, for total transparency, knowledge and understanding maybe there should be a public "Sin Bin" for all to see.

Anyone sent there be named, along with the reason and offending post(s), length of ban and the Mod who issued it.

Seems a reasonable request - so why not?

ezik
24-03-2012, 21:08
Only he could do something to get banned longer without even being here.

We made the ban longer, on the same day or the next, because we thought the initial 5 days was a bit too short for Mod/Admin bashing and the fact that we needed a little rest from all this. So, it wasn't something "new" that caused the ban to be prolonged. Apart from realising that we were a bit more annoyed than we initially thought.


I think it's been very nice here without him.

You are not the only one with this feedback.


I'd give him a week or less before he gets banned again.

Within the mod team, we're not even sure if we want to go through that ritual again. At the moment, none of us is really eager to put it mildly.

Tony P
24-03-2012, 21:17
We made the ban longer, on the same day or the next, because we thought the initial 5 days was a bit too short for Mod/Admin bashing and the fact that we needed a little rest from all this. So, it wasn't something "new" that caused the ban to be prolonged. Apart from realising that we were a bit more annoyed than we initially thought.

Thanks for explaining that.
So, what is the revised period of the ban?

Why the reticence in announcing this - apart from making it more difficult for Mod/Admin to increase the punishment to keep him out of the way for longer. (strangely, the name Khordokovsky springs to mind!)

ezik
24-03-2012, 21:56
The Khodorkovsky analogy is not correct, I think. Khodorkovsky is imprisoned and comparing a ban on a virtual community with prison time, in my view is inappropriate. My wife, a journalist, has done some reports on prisons in Russia and let me assure you that after what she told me, you don't want to compare a ban to prison.

We're not increasing bans here as a rule. Neither is anyone in the Sin Bin by a rule. You may want to acknowledge the fact that we generally ban:
- nutters who post threats
- spammers.
They never see the Sin Bin, they are just off.

Very few "steady" members get a temp ban. Some have gotten a few and came back in and, in general took that ban serious and changed their behaviour. Really, if someone has a bad night and posts some stuff he/she is also feeling sorry about the next morning, we're not that tough.

Things get different when you get the feeling that someone is having the intention to troll and/or when at first login on the forum you have to clean up the mess: reported posts, complaints, etc. Even if the person in question thinks it is "awesome" it is not if you're trying to run a friendly and informative forum as a volunteer.

As for the revised period of the ban: the ban will end if we have indications that we're not in for a repetition of steps. Even a permanent ban is not necessarily permanent, people always have the chance to come back in. It is the message you see when you try to log in as a banned member.

As for the Sin Bin and transparency, I'm for it all. But we need to keep in mind that creating the Sin Bin right now would be to facilitate ONE person. And as for mentioning the Mod who did the ban: the person who gets banned knows it, no need to make it public (as we've seen this information abused on e.g. Facebook). Having said that, if the mods agree that it can be made public, I have no problem. But I don't see any added value. Bans like the one we are discussing now have been extensively discussed in our area and can be regarded as a team decision.

Thanks for the critical questions, by the way.


Thanks for explaining that.
So, what is the revised period of the ban?

Why the reticence in announcing this - apart from making it more difficult for Mod/Admin to increase the punishment to keep him out of the way for longer. (strangely, the name Khordokovsky springs to mind!)

Tony P
24-03-2012, 22:26
Ezik. Thanks for the time and explanation.

My Khordokovsky analogy was from the point of extending an existing punishment with the sole apparent purpose to keep him out of circulation longer. Many regard last year's second trial to have been just that.
No way was I comparing their respective 'crimes' or punishments - just the principle of extending punishments.

I am sure there are those who feel the forums run more smoothly without certain people. Equally some of those people, in the view of others, make valid contributions despite a regrettable proneness to 'overstep the line'.

ezik
24-03-2012, 23:08
valid contributions despite a regrettable proneness to 'overstep the line'.

I'm gonna borrow that quote from you, just as with Sin Bin.

What you mention is what normally is the trade-off we look at. There needs to be a balance. I think the balance was there for a while but got lost. And I don't think that this forum is to blame for that.

With Khodorkovsky, I share the feeling that the purpose has been just to have him out of circulation. 1st of April is going to be interesting - his case and those of 31 other alleged political prisoners will have been reviewed by that time. Ordered by Medvedev, outgoing president.

I get your point, the analogy. But the matter is different here. We don't punish someone with a ban. We just indicate that we're not happy with having the person around with this sort of behavior. This forum is not a necessity in life, so denying access is more or less like not being let in to a bar or restaurant. Annoying, maybe, but hardly a breach of inalienable human rights.

I suppose that at this point, it is pretty much up to the banned person to come back in again or not. If you want to play, play by the rules. If not, you don't come back to play. If my 3 yo daughter misbehaves at Kindergarten, she is left with the same choice. She is as stubborn as they come, but normally decides, in the end, to join the fun rather than standing alone in that corner.

This situation is no different, except from the fact we're dealing with an adult person who should know better than my 3 y.o. :)

robertmf
25-03-2012, 01:48
With Khodorkovsky, I share the feeling that the purpose has been just to have him out of circulation. 1st of April is going to be interesting - his case and those of 31 other alleged political prisoners will have been reviewed by that time.


April 1st is "April Fools Day", so the joke may be on the prisoners, eh wot :question:



... We don't punish someone with a ban. We just indicate that we're not happy with having the person around with this sort of behavior.


Perhaps too soft ... moustaches would send the Black Maria for them :rasta:

ezik
25-03-2012, 02:09
I'm not going to be soft on this one. Drtnsnw has a group going on Facebook. He's the admin of it.
I got told, in that group, by a certain member, that he was going to drop-kick me. And the person told that I should perceive that as a threat. Will post the screenshot if needed. The post itself has been deleted, but it was not a nice thing to read. As told, I can provide a screen shot if needed.
I'm not a saint but I don't think that this sort of aggressive behavior should be regarded as normal. Nothing was done against it on that group page. No-one even commented. That is sick, if a community silently agrees on using violence. What's next?

It this why I am very hesitant to bring back in this "awesomeness".

Patriots
25-03-2012, 03:53
I'm not going to be soft on this one. Drtnsnw has a group going on Facebook. He's the admin of it.
I got told, in that group, by a certain member, that he was going to drop-kick me. And the person told that I should perceive that as a threat. Will post the screenshot if needed. The post itself has been deleted, but it was not a nice thing to read. As told, I can provide a screen shot if needed.
I'm not a saint but I don't think that this sort of aggressive behavior should be regarded as normal. Nothing was done against it on that group page. No-one even commented. That is sick, if a community silently agrees on using violence. What's next?

It this why I am very hesitant to bring back in this "awesomeness".



I thought you were bringing back the "awesomeness" by getting rid of drtnsnw.

yakspeare
25-03-2012, 07:11
I'm not going to be soft on this one. Drtnsnw has a group going on Facebook. He's the admin of it.
I got told, in that group, by a certain member, that he was going to drop-kick me. And the person told that I should perceive that as a threat. Will post the screenshot if needed. The post itself has been deleted, but it was not a nice thing to read. As told, I can provide a screen shot if needed.
I'm not a saint but I don't think that this sort of aggressive behavior should be regarded as normal. Nothing was done against it on that group page. No-one even commented. That is sick, if a community silently agrees on using violence. What's next?

It this why I am very hesitant to bring back in this "awesomeness".

That works both ways ezik. you keep a member here who has threatened many of us. Even got a phone call from the chap the other day telling me to "be careful, be very careful"...absolute stalker behaviour....a lot of people are extremely frustrated with your decision and Drt is just one of them. He responds the way he does and I don't condone it, and agree he needs a break and for how long I don't know...but understand this-you have made this situation so much worse for all by your failure to act and Drt did once consider you a friend too. Ban drt by all means but ban that other guy too. That may restore some faith.

yakspeare
25-03-2012, 07:46
and I want to say I agree with 99% of all mod decisions here, including those done by Ezik(including the banning of Drt)...it is just one decision I think the mod team are in error over. I hope for the day that is rectified. Apart from that, I think they do a great job which is not always appreciated.

annasophia
25-03-2012, 07:52
Why is it I only get nice PM's here from nice people (yes Andrey, I'm looking at you--and others :))

I'm lost in all the intrigue and personal problems and deleted users and suspicious tourists and somebody-is-really-somebody-else and othersuch incomprehensible underground unsubstantiated gossip.....that only some percentage of special people know what the hell anybody else is talking about.

It's BS. And boring. I'm getting tired of it.

yakspeare
25-03-2012, 08:38
Why is it I only get nice PM's here from nice people (yes Andrey, I'm looking at you--and others :))

I'm lost in all the intrigue and personal problems and deleted users and suspicious tourists and somebody-is-really-somebody-else and othersuch incomprehensible underground unsubstantiated gossip.....that only some percentage of special people know what the hell anybody else is talking about.

It's BS. And boring. I'm getting tired of it.

Tired of it too. The person I refer to has been banned from this site many times, called several members and followed them in real life and threatened them. Drt, for his faults, certainly never tried to hide who he was. Neither do I. I have one account. and it isn't underground unsubstantiated gossip when people are actually calling you or PMing you...be thankful it isn't you, it isn't much fun.

Patriots
25-03-2012, 08:53
Tired of it too. The person I refer to has been banned from this site many times, called several members and followed them in real life and threatened them. Drt, for his faults, certainly never tried to hide who he was. Neither do I. I have one account. and it isn't underground unsubstantiated gossip when people are actually calling you or PMing you...be thankful it isn't you, it isn't much fun.



Just because he doesn't hide who he is makes it ok to insult, threaten, harass and stalk people? He abuses women and you like the guy? He's made trouble for every one he has met. Best to keep far away from him.

annasophia
25-03-2012, 08:55
Tired of it too. The person I refer to has been banned from this site many times, called several members and followed them in real life and threatened them. Drt, for his faults, certainly never tried to hide who he was. Neither do I. I have one account. and it isn't underground unsubstantiated gossip when people are actually calling you or PMing you...be thankful it isn't you, it isn't much fun.

Some nitwit did this to me on another unrelated website. As I recall, in capital letters I instructed them to Fkuc Off, never PM me ever again, that I would never bother to address another one of their messages, and I was adding them to my ignore list immediately.

Problem fixed. Never heard another peep out of them.

yakspeare
25-03-2012, 09:18
Just because he doesn't hide who he is makes it ok to insult, threaten, harass and stalk people? He abuses women and you like the guy? He's made trouble for every one he has met. Best to keep far away from him.

no it doesn't make it okay and he deserves the ban.

yakspeare
25-03-2012, 09:20
Some nitwit did this to me on another unrelated website. As I recall, in capital letters I instructed them to Fkuc Off, never PM me ever again, that I would never bother to address another one of their messages, and I was adding them to my ignore list immediately.

Problem fixed. Never heard another peep out of them.

You just don't have any clue. This guy FOLLOWS people in REAL LIFE, called the daughter of a member in France, called me and threatened me....created fake profiles of me on other sites so I would receive a ton of phone calls. Clearly your approach does not work in this case.

Patriots
25-03-2012, 09:32
no it doesn't make it okay and he deserves the ban.



He deserves more than a ban.

Judge
25-03-2012, 09:36
We have been down this road many times, I agree with anna,

It's BS. And boring. I'm getting tired of it.
and she's not alone, many also find these fights boring and it puts people off using the forum..
The last few weeks the site has been running very smoothly, no posts reports, no infractions, no bans, NO FIGHTS...
Drt has been permanently banned from the site...

The answer to the OP has been explained.
Thread closed,
Have good Sunday..