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Judge
23-09-2007, 00:25
Before i came to live in Russia i read a few books about Stalin and Lenin and the name Trotsky kept popping up in these books, so i started to read about this man and from what i read , i really grew to like him and his ideas...
When i mention Trotsky's name to Russian's they mainly shrug and say nothing, even my Russian wife knows nothing about him.
For me, he should have been the leader after Lenin died, even Lenin wanted him to replace him, but Stalin had other ideas.

For the Russian's on this site and expats, what's your take on Trotsky .

One of my dreams in life is to go to Mexico and see the place where he was killed, a mate of mine went and said it's a very interesting place.

AndreyS
23-09-2007, 00:44
He could have been another Stalin or maybe worse. Strong, energetic, passionate man. But Stalin turned out to be more cunning, artful in intrigues, bureaucratic games, and that's why he won and took over as the head of the comm. party and consequently of the state. Common opinioin - he was the only man, who Stalin was afraid of. That's why he killed him even in exile. See Richard Louree. The autobiography of Joseph Stakin.

To go to Mexica just to study smth about Trotsky seems to go too far, as you British say. :-))

Judge
23-09-2007, 00:59
A nice holiday in Mexcio would go down well,Trotsky's house would be a bonus.

Yes , Stalin was more cunning,Trotsky had a few chances to get the power and didn't have the killer instinct.The world would have been different if Trotsky took control.Take WW2,it was Trotsky who in my eyes was the main guy who won the war for Russia.

Thanks for your comments, i would like some more info about what russians think about Trotsky...

AndreyS
23-09-2007, 01:04
A nice holiday in Mexcio would go down well,Trotsky's house would be a bonus.

Yes , Stalin was more cunning,Trotsky had a few chances to get the power and didn't have the killer instinct.The world would have been different if Trotsky took control.Take WW2,it was Trotsky who in my eyes was the main guy who won the war for Russia.

Thanks for your comments, i would like some more info about what russians think about Trotsky...

OK, I catch. I shut up. :-)))

Margo
23-09-2007, 01:34
Once I brought ice-axe to university and everybody seeing me asked if this was the stuff Trotsky was killed with.
Sorry, kind of off-top, really know not much about this person except for he was jew, which I'm sure you know. And seems he didn't have money do rule the world :)

Judge
23-09-2007, 02:50
And which jewish family did he marry into ...
i'll give you a clue, they had something to do with banking.

Korotky Gennady
23-09-2007, 04:06
He could have been another Stalin or maybe worse. Strong, energetic, passionate man. But Stalin turned out to be more cunning, artful in intrigues, bureaucratic games, and that's why he won and took over as the head of the comm. party and consequently of the state. Common opinioin - he was the only man, who Stalin was afraid of. That's why he killed him even in exile. See Richard Louree. The autobiography of Joseph Stakin.

To go to Mexica just to study smth about Trotsky seems to go too far, as you British say. :-))

Andrey, i have been a troskist myself for ten years of my life and i can say that he was maybe only a little better than Stalin was.

A few times Lenin called him "political whore"... ;) and maybe Ilich was right in some sense.

He was a empty man and he had no chances against Stalin.

Korotky Gennady
23-09-2007, 04:13
And seems he didn't have money do rule the world



No. Margo, he has them. He has a lot of money. The german jew Parvus gave him how much he wanted. It's the well-known fact too. And maybe becoz of that Vladimir Ilich was out of rage when he heard about Trotsky and his plans...

AndreyS
23-09-2007, 18:32
Andrey, i have been a troskist myself for ten years of my life and i can say that he was maybe only a little better than Stalin was.

A few times Lenin called him "political whore"... ;) and maybe Ilich was right in some sense.

He was a empty man and he had no chances against Stalin.

I have smth to answer, but Judge turned me to the door. :-(((

Judge
23-09-2007, 19:46
I have smth to answer, but Judge turned me to the door. :-(((:eh::eh:

turn around and walk back in...

Korotky Gennady
24-09-2007, 02:09
I have smth to answer, but Judge turned me to the door. :-(((




?? :wazzup:

Judge
24-09-2007, 15:41
?? :wazzup:
I'm also stumped.


Korotky , so you are or was a Trotskite ,that's pretty cool,never chatted with a follower of Trotsky.I have read that there are a few Trotsky groups around the world...You said ''and i can say that he was maybe only a little better than Stalin was'' why you say this?

TGP
24-09-2007, 21:00
Before i came to live in Russia i read a few books about Stalin and Lenin and the name Trotsky kept popping up in these books, so i started to read about this man and from what i read , i really grew to like him and his ideas...
When i mention Trotsky's name to Russian's they mainly shrug and say nothing, even my Russian wife knows nothing about him.
For me, he should have been the leader after Lenin died, even Lenin wanted him to replace him, but Stalin had other ideas.

For the Russian's on this site and expats, what's your take on Trotsky .

One of my dreams in life is to go to Mexico and see the place where he was killed, a mate of mine went and said it's a very interesting place.

For me Trotsky is one of the outstanding, smart politicians of that time. I didn't think about what would have happened if he had been Lenin's successor, but I thought sometimes what would have happened if Lenin lived longer, and, to be honest, I don't have an answer. That time and the events were so bright, tragic, and the tasks were so intricate and new for the people, that we can only guess what their understanding and real motives of their actions were. Well, we do know many things now, but still it's our supposition to some extent.

Sounds like a speech in a circumlocutory manner. Maybe coz I am in a philosophical mood...

Judge
25-09-2007, 00:43
Nice post TGP.

Things might have turned out different if Lenin lived longer we can only speculate.,but i think the USSR's relationship might have been more open with the west.

After the war,the USSR needed a strong leader and in Stalin they got one,Trotsky to me didn't seem much of a leader,a war leader yes(civil war),but to run a whole country after a great war,we will never know.Stalin in the end was more cunning.

Korotky Gennady
25-09-2007, 01:17
Korotky , so you are or was a Trotskite ,that's pretty cool,never chatted with a follower of Trotsky.I have read that there are a few Trotsky groups around the world...You said ''and i can say that he was maybe only a little better than Stalin was'' why you say this?




Juge, i told i was the trotskite since my schoolhood, but i have never been a member of any organized trotskites group. There was and there are such groups in moscow but i had no wish to join them.

Then I started to read Lev Trotsky more attentively and very soon i found out that his political views had very little difference from Stalin's views. And that all broil between Stalin and Trotsky conserning in the most part only the subject who would be a leader and chief of party and country. Then i red Orwell's novel "1984" and i understood step by step that i, myself, am absolutly alien to them both.

;) And now I am the anarchist... :grind: :happymad:


ANARCHY = ORDER ! :)

AndreyS
25-09-2007, 15:30
I am sorry, friends, but you just express your moods, suppositions and imaginry situations. You seem to be in a philosophical mood. Maybe, its better to try and
find out some interesting facts about T. and his epoch and discuss them?

TGP
25-09-2007, 19:13
Andrey, you are right, but I think we all tried to answer Judge's question which he asked in his original post. :)