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Viola
14-12-2011, 13:43
Mercer published the 2011 quality of living survey.

■European cities dominate worldwide Quality of Living ranking, with cities in Australia, New Zealand and Canada also ranked highly. Singapore is the first Asian city in the Top 25, at 25.
■Vienna is No. 1 in the Quality of Living ranking.
■Luxembourg tops our Personal Safety ranking, with Bern and Helsinki following.
■Baghdad has the lowest quality of living among the 221 cities we ranked and is also last in the Personal Safety ranking.

Details are at the Mercer web-site (http://www.mercer.com/articles/quality-of-living-survey-report-2011)

mrzuzzo
14-12-2011, 13:50
I'm actually surprised that Vienna is higher than Vancouver..

I'm from the second best city in the Americas according to that index. :)

Viola
14-12-2011, 13:58
I'm actually surprised that Vienna is higher than Vancouver..

I'm from the second best city in the Americas according to that index. :)

Now you are in #199 :9456:

mrzuzzo
14-12-2011, 14:19
Now you are in #199 :9456:

I don't regret it one bit.

Those indexes are complete bullsh*t.

Viola
14-12-2011, 14:23
I don't regret it one bit.

Those indexes are complete bullsh*t.

Mind out, probably your expat salary is calculated on basis of those indexes :10189:

mrzuzzo
14-12-2011, 14:28
Mind out, probably your expat salary is calculated on basis of those indexes :10189:

I wish it was :thumbdwn:

Gypsy
14-12-2011, 15:08
Mind out, probably your expat salary is calculated on basis of those indexes :10189:

This is the important thing about the Mercer reports. The audience is expats. I do not for a second think Vienna is anywhere near the top for quality of life - Vancouver is.

mrzuzzo
14-12-2011, 15:23
This is the important thing about the Mercer reports. The audience is expats. I do not for a second think Vienna is anywhere near the top for quality of life - Vancouver is.

ditto! I think Vancouver is definitely better than Vienna as well.

mds45
14-12-2011, 15:25
ditto! I think Vancouver is definitely better than Vienna as well.

Zurich should be No1. Then London/Paris/Tokoyo/New York in any order. All other places are villages..

Viola
14-12-2011, 15:41
I added the poll.

Benedikt
14-12-2011, 18:34
wonder how they got the conclusion.
suppose the same way they calculate that Moscow is one of the most expensive cities around the world.
Ask the Viennese,amongst other, in the 5th district, an -old- and -poor- district how they think about their city and the answer will be something different.
but so be it. let them have their fun.

andymackem
15-12-2011, 13:08
It always seems to me that the cities which top these polls are a little bit, without wishing to offend anyone, dull.

I can only speak as a tourist, and I thoroughly enjoyed my trip to Vienna, but it didn't feel like somewhere hugely exciting to live in. It seemed a bit conservative to me (I mean that as a neutral observation, not an implied criticism). And now I've seen most of the museums, palaces and galleries that I wanted to look at, I wonder how I'd fill in my social time if I went to live there.

The cities that I've loved living in - London, Moscow, even Glasgow - have always felt a bit edgier. And it's that edge and energy that holds my interest. I imagine New York would be similar, and possibly Berlin. Of course, that says more about me than about the city: if I was bringing up a young family I'd probably see it all very differently, for example. But it highlights how these surveys will always be flawed. Intriguing, but flawed.

Vovochka
15-12-2011, 13:42
wonder how they got the conclusion.
suppose the same way they calculate that Moscow is one of the most expensive cities around the world.

Moscow *is* one of the most expensive cities in the world. Certainly, there are aspects of it that are less expensive than other European locales. Metro rides and rynoks may indeed be cheap, but the items which people will spend more money on proportionally than anything else (i.e. real-estate and automobiles) are three, four, or five times more expensive than anywhere else. Calling Moscow inexpensive is ignoring reality.

andymackem
15-12-2011, 15:26
Moscow *is* one of the most expensive cities in the world. Certainly, there are aspects of it that are less expensive than other European locales. Metro rides and rynoks may indeed be cheap, but the items which people will spend more money on proportionally than anything else (i.e. real-estate and automobiles) are three, four, or five times more expensive than anywhere else. Calling Moscow inexpensive is ignoring reality.

Not wholly convinced. I don't think I could afford a property as central as my Moscow apartment if I was living in London (admittedly renting rather than buying). Particularly if we bring utility bills into that equation. And, while the one-off purchase cost for the car may be higher than in the UK, petrol is significantly cheaper (as far as I can see). Plus, with cheap and widespread public transport, there's less need for many people to own a car.

Moscow is hardly inexpensive - show me a major city which is - but I'm yet to be convinced that the cost of living is substantially higher here than in London. Whether that is a bonus for Moscow or a condemnation of London is, of course, an entirely separate question :)

Gypsy
15-12-2011, 15:32
A mate of mine is just back from a tour on an oil rig off Angola. He has to stay in Rwanda when not on the rig and swears it is much more expensive than Moscow.

Like many places, Moscow included, there is a local economy and a visitors economy.

We don't have to buy food in Azbuka or Alie Parusa we could go to local markets. We could live in the same apartments in the same places as most Muscovites - but by and large we don't. (Apologies, 'we" means expats). Our expat Moscow is significantly more expensive than local's Moscow. Same everywhere.

mrzuzzo
15-12-2011, 15:39
A mate of mine is just back from a tour on an oil rig off Angola. He has to stay in Rwanda when not on the rig and swears it is much more expensive than Moscow.

I've heard the same from others.... Africa, and especially Angola, is extremely expensive for expats, even compared to Moscow.

DavidB
15-12-2011, 16:30
It always seems to me that the cities which top these polls are a little bit, without wishing to offend anyone, dull.

I agree 100% with that. In my opinion, it's a list of the least unliveable cities for everyone. Most people will find their place in cities NOT on that list.

About the cost of living - I don't think Russia's housing market is that expensive compared to other cities which have a population of 11 million.

Can anyone actually show me where the price of a new car is significantly more in Russia? The used car market is obviously different because Russia has only had a foreign car market for around 15 years. Europe also has lower financing rates because of the UK and Eurozone members, which have low official interest rates. That makes it easier for people to buy new cars, pushing the used car market down.

I did a quick comparison:
Eg. Ford Mondeo Titanium Бензиновый двигатель EcoBoost 2,0 л (240 л.с.), 6-ст. АКПП PowerShift с 2-мя сцеплениями
1 370 161 rubles in Sweden (301500 SEK)
1 167 500 rubles in Russia

BMW 740i:
3 690 000 rubles in Sweden (812 000 SEK)
4 000 000 rubles in Russia
That is a vehicle which is produced in the EU common market, so an 8.4% premium isn't that bad considering that it's a local product in Sweden and a fully-imported one in Russia.

I chose Sweden, because they have an exotic currency like the Ruble, which the automakers have to price in risk for. They also have a cold climate, so the Winter pack is usually included in the base model. In Sweden, you will pay a LOT more for fuel and taxes over the life of the vehicle.

Benedikt
16-12-2011, 00:43
Moscow *is* one of the most expensive cities in the world. Certainly, there are aspects of it that are less expensive than other European locales. Metro rides and rynoks may indeed be cheap, but the items which people will spend more money on proportionally than anything else (i.e. real-estate and automobiles) are three, four, or five times more expensive than anywhere else. Calling Moscow inexpensive is ignoring reality.

but not THAT expensive as most of the surveys made it to be.
but also fair enough i am here many years, bought our apartment when one still could afford one easily, i don't need meat for m NZ or Australian, neither milk from Finland or sugar from Germany. And maple syrup from Canada means nothing to me. Maybe being a Chef `i know where to get good food at good prices, know restaurants, off the main streets, where one can have a nice evening without looting my bank account.When in Rome do as the Romans do, has served me around the world in most cases and circumstances well.

sashadidi
16-12-2011, 08:36
In the Poll what about say Sydney or Auckland or does the Southern Hemisphere not exist?

Chads
16-12-2011, 10:22
Cost of wine.

Argument over.

DavidB
17-12-2011, 01:23
Cost of wine.

If you compare the cost of imported wine in the EU and Russia, it isn't that different. Eg. compare wine from Chile, South Africa, New Zealand, etc. in both locations and you'll probably not see much difference. It doesn't make any sense to compare a local product in one market and an imported one in another market.

One difference is that Russia either has a capped taxable base on wine or a minimum tax amount - I can't remember which way it works, but I know the end result is that the tax margin on low-end imported wines is quite high, and the opposite is the case for higher quality products.

What about another factor which most people have chosen to ignore... income tax rates.
Argument over.