PDA

View Full Version : Россия - маразм крепчает... (((;



Korotky Gennady
27-11-2011, 15:44
Никогда не думал, что русские докатятся до такого маразма. Но тем не менее... (((;

http://www.interfax.by/files/2011-11/20111125-100048-752.jpg

Не исключено, что пояс Богородицы, находящийся сейчас в Храме Христа Спасителя в Москве, пронесут над всеми верующими на вертолете. На Афоне, откуда реликвия прибыла в Россию, подтверждают, что традиция проносить святыню над головами паломников существует.

http://content.izvestia.ru/media/3/news/2011/11/507805/SHAL5183.JPG

Очередь из желающих поклониться поясу Богородицы с каждым днем становится все длиннее. Как сообщили в пресс-службе московского метрополитена 24 ноября, она тянулась уже от станции метро «Воробьевы горы».



На сегодняшний день число паломников, пришедших в храм Христа Спасителя в Москве, составило свыше 407 тыс. человек.

«В очереди сейчас находится 82 тыс. человек. Сегодня в Москву прибыло еще 732 автобуса с людьми из других регионов России», – сказал собеседник агентства со ссылкой на данные городского оперативного штаба.

http://www.pravmir.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/IMG_8159_s2.jpg

Средняя продолжительность нахождения в очереди составляет 26 часов; паломники обогреваются в 195 автобусах, припаркованных в районе храма. Еще 25 автобусов задействованы для доставки паломников к вокзалам в ночное время. Также на обогрев работают 21 передвижная электростанция.

Читать полностью: http://www.interfax.by/article/86403

TGP
27-11-2011, 23:06
It would be interesting to hear what the people from the line are thinking about those who are sure it is marasmus. Though I am sure they will not use such words no matter what they think.
But all of them are nitwits, aren't they? Because instead of sitting for hours in internet re-posting articels from one site to another, they are standing in this line. For each his own.

P.S. No, I was not there. But I think it is not a subject to snear at. If someone does not understand what drive other people, it does not mean he has the only correct understanding of their behaviour.


Discussion from my part is finished.

I am writing in English because of the problem with Russian codes....

tvadim133
27-11-2011, 23:43
I agree with you, TGP!

There can be different reasons brought people to the cathedral, but the main, which connects and made them to come, is the Belief.

Those who do not have any belief and hope, they are flawed to my humble opinion.

Korotky Gennady
28-11-2011, 15:34
I agree with you, TGP!


...

Those who do not have any belief and hope, they are flawed to my humble opinion.


What does worship to the piece of woman's dress (a kind of panty girdle) have to do with faith and hope ?

It's a typical Fetishism and Idolatry.

Soviet people of Breznev's era were never inclined to Idolatry.. And only now when Dark King Putin reing over here, passion for Idolatry infects souls of russian people...

And also one of the numerous crimes of Putin-Medvedev's regime. Russian authorities try to make their subjects simply mad... turn them into brainless crowds of worshipers which are ready to believe in any superstition. http://www2.2space.net/images/upl_news/110424/1303644003.jpg

http://p2.patriarchia.ru/2011/11/19/1233955191/2(26)NOV_4244.jpg

SV1973a
28-11-2011, 16:03
Soviet people of Breznev's era were never inclined to Idolatry..
Honestly, speaking, that is what I admire enormously in the Soviets. To have liberated their people of all religous superstitions, and to have tried to create a better world here on this planet, not in the afterlife. It did not turn out well, but at least they tried.


And only now when Dark King Putin reing over here, passion for Idolatry infects souls of russian people...
Of course, because as long as the patriarch and his batushkis can keep the masses stupid, it is much easier for the rulers to govern.


And also one of the numerous crimes of Putin-Medvedev's regime. Russian authorities try to make their subjects simply mad... turn them into brainless crowds of worshipers which are ready to believe in any superstition.
Indeed. It makes me mad that people are putting their brain `on hold` and are starting to return to (ridiculous) traditions from the middle ages. (remember Chaplin stating that Chernobyl was punishment for godless communism)
I bet that Putin and Medvedev themselves are not believers themselves.
In fact I would not be surprised if even the patriarch does not believe. But he probably knows that he can cling on to power, by pretending he does, and instructing all believers what to do.

Korotky Gennady
28-11-2011, 16:15
Indeed.

It makes me mad that people are putting their brain `on hold` and are starting to return to (ridiculous) traditions from the middle ages. (remember Chaplin stating that Chernobyl was punishment for godless communism)
.

It is. SV1973a, but you have your Motherland Belguim where all is more or less okey.

Russia is my country and during last twenty five years just on my eyes this country start to remind Medieval Mad House.

Babushkas, all kinds of cherished "relics", Church's directions what people should think and how they should dress themselves... and so on.


Many educated people are against it but they are banned from apperance on tv-screen or on russian radio-stations.

Seems the russian authorities do what they can in order to keep the consciousness of russian people in the dark.

SV1973a
28-11-2011, 16:23
It is. SV1973a, but you have your Motherland Belguin where all is more or less okey.
Not really, we have major problems right now. Over 520 days without government, but it looks like we will get a government soon now. A matter of days or weeks they promise.
At least, not such an overwhelming presence of `religous` leaders in the public life. And rightfully so.


Babushkas, all kinds of cherished "relics", Church's directions what people should think and how they should dress themselves... and so on.
Exactly, Russians teach children to not sit on the ground, to wash their hands, etc.
And then they take them to church to go and kiss holy relics (ideal place for all bacteria and viruses to infect lots of people), and drink holy water (if you drink it you can not become sick because it has become `holy`).
The way things are evolving in Russia, I`m afraid is leading up to the same as in Muslim countries : backwarded population.
I wonder, did none of the religous leaders state publicly that a good Russian christian should vote for `United Russia` ?

FatAndy
28-11-2011, 16:53
I wonder, did none of the religous leaders state publicly that a good Russian christian should vote for `United Russia` ?
http://ria.ru/religion/20111121/494239170.html - after such kind of "gift" why not? I'll be not very surprised.

BTW, "uncle Zyu" is trying to bite a piece of pie on the wave: http://kprf.ru/rus_soc/99413.html - in my mind, killing KPRF chances completely by demonstrative political prostitution...

Korotky Gennady
28-11-2011, 18:47
I wonder, did none of the religous leaders state publicly that a good Russian christian should vote for `United Russia` ?


I didn't hear that someone of them state this... but they, tv-men, show often how Putin and Medvedev visit The Orthodox Temples and how much devoted orthodox christians they are... So you can infer easily whom the most russian zealous orthodox christians will vote for... :)

Korotky Gennady
28-11-2011, 19:08
http://ria.ru/religion/20111121/494239170.html - after such kind of "gift" why not? I'll be not very surprised.

BTW, "uncle Zyu" is trying to bite a piece of pie on the wave: http://kprf.ru/rus_soc/99413.html - in my mind, killing KPRF chances completely by demonstrative political prostitution...

Yeah ! You're right. So 'comrade' Zuganov disgraced himself and memory of many soviet communists too...

I think Stalin could put Zuganov to the wall for execution by shooting for that. ;)

Fake communist and traitor of the memory of those who died for freedom.





The way things are evolving in Russia, I`m afraid is leading up to the same as in Muslim countries : backwarded population.

` ? If it goes further this way... not far the day when Russian will become the Orthodox Iran. :))))

rusmeister
28-11-2011, 20:34
Honestly, speaking, that is what I admire enormously in the Soviets. To have liberated their people of all religous superstitions, and to have tried to create a better world here on this planet, not in the afterlife. It did not turn out well, but at least they tried.


Of course, because as long as the patriarch and his batushkis can keep the masses stupid, it is much easier for the rulers to govern.


Indeed. It makes me mad that people are putting their brain `on hold` and are starting to return to (ridiculous) traditions from the middle ages. (remember Chaplin stating that Chernobyl was punishment for godless communism)
I bet that Putin and Medvedev themselves are not believers themselves.
In fact I would not be surprised if even the patriarch does not believe. But he probably knows that he can cling on to power, by pretending he does, and instructing all believers what to do.
C'mon, SV - I challenge you to say that my brain is "on hold". Traditions from the Middle Ages may be ridiculous or not, or we may merely be laughing at what we truly do not understand (I have referred to the analogy of the aborigine facing a tiny pistol and laughing at the European brandishing it as a weapon. The aborigine finds the tiny thing aimed at him ridiculous, but does not see that the joke, if it be a joke, will be ultimately on him.)

There are quite a few traditions from the Middle Ages. Let us dispense with printing presses, parliaments, gunpowder, and other relics of that ignorant and barbaric period.

Now as far as Soviets and idolatry, I find the selectivity of historical memory fascinating. Gone are the portraits and statues of Stalin everywhere and the insane press at his funeral that killed God knows how many people - a level of barbarism that cannot be compared to the peaceful people standing calmly in line at the Cathedral. Gone are the ubiquitous praises to the glorious Soviet leaders, the hymns, the poems, and everything that decorated the cult of личности. Evidently, none of at existed. Soviet power was at all times rational, reasonable and peaceful. Nobody was shot at Butovo, nobody was repressed, and things were positively peachy.

As for "keeping people stupid", I think all you have is rhetoric, and no practical charges - certainly nothing official as Church policy or that cannot be shown as a radical exception with which I and pretty much all Orthodox Christians would agree with you; my sense is that your hostility toward the Church is based not in reason, but on the emotions.

Now as it happens, I think Chaplin's statements can be explained in a rational light - you may not agree, but it is certainly rational. I do not accept that what is rational must be subjected to what you, SV, happen to prefer. As to the idea that e Patriarch is just faking it, I suppose we could say that Che Guevara was just kidding about his beliefs, or anyone else who can be shown to actually be quite sincere. Assertions do not become truth merely because people assert them. If we look at the Patriarch's life, what is required to become a bishop, let alone metropolitan or patriarch, the idea that these people are faking it will, on the whole, be shown to be absurd. These guys don't wield earthly power in the way you seem to think they do.

Finally, as to "instructing believers what to do", I can tell you that I will certainly listen to him and take him seriously. But he cannot "make" me do anything at all, above all anything at contradicts our Tradition. He's REALLY limited on what he can "tell" us to do.

I don't think you have much contact with intelligent believers. If you did, you would not be saying these this. Your objections would be more intellectual.

I can offer you thoughts that would force reconsideration on the intelligence of people who kiss icons, as I do, and I don't think you have a clear understanding at all of what we think we are doing. I think the intelligent person ought to ask, rather an assume. As long as I'm here, anyway, I'll challenge people who claim to be intelligent when they make unintelligent claims against my faith, with the hope, not of making them look stupid, but of getting them to realize that their own understandings are primitive and uninformed, and to improve those understandings.

No offense intended anywhere, and none taken,
Rus

rusmeister
28-11-2011, 20:46
What does worship to the piece of woman's dress (a kind of panty girdle) have to do with faith and hope ?

It's a typical Fetishism and Idolatry.

Здравствуйте, Гена!
Если честно, я не вижу никакой честности в вашем вопросе.
У Вас готовый ответ, и реально слушать ответ от тех, которые занимаются этим, Вам поэтому не удастся.

Если Вы когда-нибудь по-настоящему постараетесь понять то, что Вам непонятно, буду рад стараться. Но пока Вы знаете лучше их, чем оин занимаются и почему, я считаю безполезно вступить в разговор с Вами. Это и есть суть bigotry and prejudice. The pot really is calling the plate black.

Korotky Gennady
28-11-2011, 21:48
Здравствуйте, Гена!

1) Если честно, я не вижу никакой честности в вашем вопросе.
У Вас готовый ответ, и реально слушать ответ от тех, которые занимаются этим, Вам поэтому не удастся.

Если Вы когда-нибудь по-настоящему постараетесь понять то, что Вам непонятно, буду рад стараться. Но пока Вы знаете лучше их, чем оин занимаются и почему, я считаю безполезно вступить в разговор с Вами.

2) Это и есть суть bigotry and prejudice.

The pot really is calling the plate black.

Hi !

1) Dear Rusmeister common... Don't speak your typical absract words that you know better the subject becoz it's not so... and for sure I know it not worse than you do... I was born in this country and I know our religion very well.

Reread you post you didn't disprove what I have written.

2) Any intellegent man know what idolatry is.

Bible states it absolutly clear.

(Exodus 20:4-6) “You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or
on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them...

Oh my... :)))) Even Bible contradicts orthodox bigotry and ignorance.

Korotky Gennady
28-11-2011, 22:09
Now as far as Soviets and idolatry, I find the selectivity of historical memory fascinating. Gone are the portraits and statues of Stalin everywhere and the insane press at his funeral that killed God knows how many people - a level of barbarism that cannot be compared to the peaceful people standing calmly in line at the Cathedral.

Gone are the ubiquitous praises to the glorious Soviet leaders, the hymns, the poems, and everything that decorated the cult of личности. Evidently, none of at existed. Soviet power was at all times rational, reasonable and peaceful. Nobody was shot at Butovo, nobody was repressed, and things were positively peachy.



Op... It's not true. One can compare Iosif Stalin's cult and the Personal Cult of Jesus.

first... We, Sv and me, told about Breznev era... When Leonid Brezhnev died, nobody stood in queue to cover with kisses Brezhnev's coffin or something like that... as you, christians, do to any thing that you imagine... have come from the family of Jesus... Be it tooth, stockings, piece of wood or anyting... no matter what. :)))

Nobody erects the Temples in the name of Stalin or Leonid Brezhnev... :))) And it's even ridiculous to think that somebody could...

So you are pagans for 100 % percents... who are ready to adolize anything around.

second, there was no mass murders in Breznev times and your Holy Inquisition murdered much more innocent people than Stalin killed...

rusmeister
28-11-2011, 22:09
Hi !

1) Dear Rusmeister common... Don't speak your typical absract words that you know better the subject becoz it's not so... and for sure I know it not worse than you do... I was born in this country and I know our religion very well.

Reread you post you didn't disprove what I have written.

2) Any intellegent man know what idolatry is.

Bible states it absolutly clear.

(Exodus 20:4-6) “You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or
on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them...

Oh my... :)))) Even Bible contradicts orthodox bigotry and ignorance.

Gena,
As I said. I'm not wasting any time on you until you ask honest questions. If you asked, "How does the Orthodox Church reconcile a Bible verse with this behavior?", that might be the beginning of dialog. As it is, your assertion that you understand Orthodoxy is directly denied by my experience - and I am a member and you are not. What is any honest bystanding observer to think? Whose statements about what the Church teaches are bound to carry more weight? Those of a man who wholesale rejects everything and doesn't express one teaching as the Church itself or its members express them, or a member of the Church who DOES say what the Church says? Whose assertion must be more likely to express Orthodox teaching? It's obvious to anyone else except you that your assertions cannot, logically, be true as representative of what we think and believe. Your statements may please like-minded folk, but beyond pleasing them, they do nothing to establish truth.

Korotky Gennady
28-11-2011, 22:28
Gena,
As I said. I'm not wasting any time on you until you ask honest questions. If you asked, "How does the Orthodox Church reconcile a Bible verse with this behavior?", that might be the beginning of dialog. As it is, your assertion that you understand Orthodoxy is directly denied by my experience - and I am a member and you are not. What is any honest bystanding observer to think?


.
The honest bestanders can think that it's not matter what your beloved Church teaches the people who forgot that they have mind and can use it... :)))

that they can read Bible themselves and can see the teachings of Church contradict even Bible !

:)))

In Bible Jesus never call for the people to start worship his cogffin or his mom... He never demanded of people to built the Temples in her name and in the name of his mother... but you do it.

You contradict even the words of Jesus ans the words of Bible itself...constantly... And one can think that you did it becoz you like your Church much better than the teachings of Bible and Jesus.

you, orthodoxes, are pagans by nature.

Zyablik
28-11-2011, 22:29
Привет, друзья !
Давненько я не постила :)
увидела тему, и решила сказать пару слов, так сказать "из первых уст"
Я там была, в воскресенье, 20.11., стояла 10 часов, стояла добровольно, в твердом уме и светлой памяти, стояла "по-честному", не пролезая в очереди, не стараясь обогнать, дойти быстрее....
Рядом стояли такие же, как я, ЛЮДИ, которым по-разного рода причинам ЭТО БЫЛО НУЖНО.
Стояли терпеливо, согреваясь быстро остывающим на морозе чаем, греясь в автобусах. Кто-то прикидывал, успеет ли на последнюю электричку, кто-то разговаривал, кто-то молчал...
У каждого своё, и каждому своё !
Поэтому, Гена, давай называть всё "своими" именами. Слово "маразм" здесь не уместен.
Думаю и тему то можно закрыть !.....