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View Full Version : Has `living in Russia` changed you ?



SV1973a
24-10-2011, 20:12
I have been living in Russia for more than 3 years now. Slowly but surely, this experience has made me somewhat `tougher`.

Example : Last week I was in Istanbul in a 5* business hotel in the center, with a group of Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian customers.
One of them needed to get a stamp from the hotel on the `kommandirovichnoe`.
She did not speak English, so she asked me to go to the reception of the hotel and explain that she needed stamps on this document.
The guy at the reception told me that he would not do this, because he only was allowed to put stamps on their invoices.
I explained the necessity, but still refused. He told me to go and see the manager, so I did.
Also to her, I explained the situation, but she refused just the same.
At that point, I saw that no solution would be found, so I decided to solve the problem myself.
I firmly walked to the reception, took the stamp that was on the desk, and stamped the document myself, before the baffled staff had any time to react.
Of course, when they realised what had happened, all hell broke loose, but still, I already had got what I wanted.

Before my life in Russia, I would have not even thought of this solution, but now I got this attitude `don`t mess with me !`

Any similar experiences from other expats.

SV1973a
24-10-2011, 20:50
So living in Russia has taught you to break the rules, regardless of the consequences to others, to get what YOU need?

Congratulations, you are now truly Russian.

EXACTLY, that is it. I have learned to just break the rules, in order to get what I need.
I don`t really give a **** about what consequences there may be for others.
This is exactly the point of what I posted.
Did a similar thing happen to others ?

BabyFirefly
24-10-2011, 21:01
I learned the same thing you did :-D There goes my innocent self...

Also, I learned to complain. Back in the States I'd let everything slide in fear of not being liked or being rude. Here I don't. I guess my shyness just about died in Moscow.

SV1973a
24-10-2011, 21:22
I learned the same thing you did :-D There goes my innocent self...

Also, I learned to complain. Back in the States I'd let everything slide in fear of not being liked or being rude. Here I don't. I guess my shyness just about died in Moscow.

Good for you. This is exactly what I was talking about : how your behaviour/character changed because of your living experiences in Russia.

alouette
24-10-2011, 21:23
I firmly walked to the reception, took the stamp that was on the desk, and stamped the document myself, before the baffled staff had any time to react.
Before my life in Russia, I would have not even thought of this solution.

Been living here for more than 3 y. and still wouldn't dare to act the same way. :10806:

BrandonL
24-10-2011, 21:25
I know some people will take what I'm about to say the wrong way.

But I don't care.

Russia really hasn't changed me. What it has done, is taught me things I shouldn't do. It's also made me appreciate more and more, of what I had back home and took for granted.

SV1973a
24-10-2011, 21:34
Been living here for more than 3 y. and still wouldn't dare to act the same way. :10806:

I dare a lot more actually.
Last time when I had to fly back to Moscow I had to pass customs to get some stamps on my invoices in order to get back the TVA.
In front of me there were about 60 to 70 Chinese that also needed to have their invoices stamped. Of course, I notice these people standing in line, but full of confidence I go to stand right in front of the Chinese. Needless to say that the Chinese man that was first in line, but are now behind me start to make a fuss.
I calmly turn around, show my passport (which is different from a regular passport and my Russian vid na zhitelstvo) and say `Diplomatic passport`. They did not know how to react on this, and I walked first in the customs office.

alouette
24-10-2011, 21:38
I know some people will take what I'm about to say the wrong way.

But I don't care.

Russia really hasn't changed me. What it has done, is taught me things I shouldn't do. It's also made me appreciate more and more, of what I had back home and took for granted.

I can't disagree with you.

Carl
24-10-2011, 21:40
I don`t really give a **** about what consequences there may be for others.


Yep... You're practically a Muscovite. You seem so proud. Congratulations!!.. (I guess..?)

robertmf
24-10-2011, 21:49
So living in Russia has taught you to break the rules, regardless of the consequences to others, to get what YOU need?

Congratulations, you are now truly Russian.

:floating: ... IMhO MickeyT might say that you are "going native" and developing sociopathic tendencies :question:

L'oiseau bleu
24-10-2011, 21:56
anyway with such behavior, making small breaks of rules and irritating proper Americans he would not take gun a go to nearest school to pour out everything he was keeping for years of artificial tolerance.

BrandonL
24-10-2011, 21:58
anyway with such behavior, making small breaks of rules and irritating proper Americans he would not take gun a go to nearest school to pour out everything he was keeping for years of artificial tolerance.


Pretty sure, other countries do that as well.

L'oiseau bleu
24-10-2011, 22:03
Or government troops killing people being held hostage in a theater?

this is organized government action which is anyway more predictable then subjective individual behavior

L'oiseau bleu
24-10-2011, 22:09
So that makes it ok????? Are you serious?????

No, that makes it different and uncomparable
and yes, I am very serious

BrandonL
24-10-2011, 22:11
No, that makes it different and uncomparable
and yes, I am very serious



everything is comparable.

L'oiseau bleu
24-10-2011, 22:13
everything is comparable.

what an argument!

BrandonL
24-10-2011, 22:15
what an argument!

Not trying to argue, just pointing out your flaw in your counter-argument.

All because one is predictable, and one isn't, doesn't justify one as being non comparable, and who said, Gov't actions are predictable?

Pretty sure the invading of Georgia, wasn't predictable, or Syria, and Libya's gov't killing their own people, very "predictable"
Shall I go on, or do you get the point?

BrandonL
24-10-2011, 22:18
this is organized government action which is anyway more predictable then subjective individual behavior



Last I checked, the gov't is ran by, individual people right? or is it like the borg?
Which in turn, would make it subjective, no matter how you put it.

Once again, I'll point Libya, Syria, North Korea, Iran, Iraq.

Sarah06
24-10-2011, 22:18
In Russia it's a secret because the government is usually the one doing the s
hootings. At least America lets it's people be aware of what's going on.

L'oiseau bleu
24-10-2011, 22:18
Not trying to argue, just pointing out your flaw in your counter-argument.

All because one is predictable, and one isn't, doesn't justify one as being non comparable, and who said, Gov't actions are predictable?

Pretty sure the invading of Georgia, wasn't predictable, or Syria, and Libya's gov't killing their own people, very "predictable"
Shall I go on, or do you get the point?

Zombi, I got your point before you started.

BrandonL
24-10-2011, 22:26
The government here is predictable???

I'm sure Khodorkovsky, Magnitsky, and MANY others thought the same thing.

I think the corruption is predictable)

ezik
24-10-2011, 22:31
In Russia it's a secret because the government is usually the one doing the s
hootings. At least America lets it's people be aware of what's going on.

Michael Moore disagrees! The Occupy bunch on Wall Street, too. :)

BrandonL
24-10-2011, 22:35
Until you piss off the Dark Overlord Putin. Then it becomes VERY unpredictable. Will he have you poisoned, deny you life saving medication in prison, kill your mother to get you back in the country...

So we can agree that the corruption is predictable, but how that corruption is carried out, is like Russian Roulette expect that each chamber has a different type of bullet!)

ezik
24-10-2011, 22:40
The government here is predictable???

I'm sure Khodorkovsky, Magnitsky, and MANY others thought the same thing.

Surely, the government is very predictable here. Look at the seat change on the Putin/Medveedev tandem: surprise? No. Any idea who is going to win the elections on December 4th? I have a premonition...

Russian politics, after Yeltsin, have been about predictability above all. It assures the electorate (as far as they matter anyway), calms down foreign investors (noticed all those foreign car manufacturers producing their cars in Russia nowadays?), keeps the status quo.

Within that strategy, people like Khodorkovsky and Magnitsky found out that they are just pieces of the chess game they don't control.

I'm not saying that the government is democratic and I deeply distrust any government that doesn't allow freedom of speech (it means they're afraid of it, for some reason). But one thing I won't say that they are unpredictable, because they are very, very predictable.

BrandonL
24-10-2011, 22:44
Surely, the government is very predictable here. Look at the seat change on the Putin/Medveedev tandem: surprise? No. Any idea who is going to win the elections on December 4th? I have a premonition...

Russian politics, after Yeltsin, have been about predictability above all. It assures the electorate (as far as they matter anyway), calms down foreign investors (noticed all those foreign car manufacturers producing their cars in Russia nowadays?), keeps the status quo.

Within that strategy, people like Khodorkovsky and Magnitsky found out that they are just pieces of the chess game they don't control.

I'm not saying that the government is democratic and I deeply distrust any government that doesn't allow freedom of speech (it means they're afraid of it, for some reason). But one thing I won't say that they are unpredictable, because they are very, very predictable.

I think a lot of what you see, is what the gov't wants you to see, and give you the illusion of it.

I think behind scenes, it's very very unpredictable.
and we'd be surprised if we knew what was really happening, we may think we do, but if we knew the truth, I think all of us would be very shocked. which would make it seem unpredictable that it was happening.
Everything and anything can be predictable, or unpredictable, it's all about how each person perceives things

Carl
24-10-2011, 22:49
anyway with such behavior, making small breaks of rules and irritating proper Americans he would not take gun a go to nearest school to pour out everything he was keeping for years of artificial tolerance.

Can you expand a bit on this line of thought..?

Do I understand correctly, that you condon this type of boorish behavior? .. Not giving a S**T of the consequences to other people?, cutting in lines at the airport, and doing what ever you like to get what you want? I just want to make sure I understand your position fully before I reply...))

ezik
24-10-2011, 22:51
Good point.

A bombing on the metro hits the news through the internet and other channels almost immediately here, too. But, indeed, before you get any official word on it, it is going to take hours. Which is why most Russians I know just take TV for granted when it comes to news. They know it is not the real news they see on TV. Just the filtered version, a really slow version.

Even state-owned media can bring good reports. Think BBC. Class example of state-owned, yet independent media.

CNN isn't bad either.


I think Sarah06's point was a school shooting in the US will be on the news almost immediately (at times, even as it is happening) whereas here, a bombing on the Metro won't be reported for HOURS after the fact.
At least the media in the US isn't owned and operated by the government.

ezik
24-10-2011, 23:05
Probably, behind the scenes it is a political thriller. Would love to take a peek (but I'm a geek with a master's in political science).

Now, how would the Duma and the government look like if the elections were completely free and all parties had equal access to free and independent media? Who would win?

It's this and other stuff that changed me, living in Russia. I don't rely on first impressions anymore. I've learnt not to jump to conclusions too quickly.


I think a lot of what you see, is what the gov't wants you to see, and give you the illusion of it.

I think behind scenes, it's very very unpredictable.
and we'd be surprised if we knew what was really happening, we may think we do, but if we knew the truth, I think all of us would be very shocked. which would make it seem unpredictable that it was happening.
Everything and anything can be predictable, or unpredictable, it's all about how each person perceives things

SV1973a
24-10-2011, 23:49
drtnsnw, Carl,

What would you have done in the situation that I described ?

Example : Last week I was in Istanbul in a 5* business hotel in the center, with a group of Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian customers.
One of them needed to get a stamp from the hotel on the `kommandirovichnoe`.
She did not speak English, so she asked me to go to the reception of the hotel and explain that she needed stamps on this document.
The guy at the reception told me that he would not do this, because he only was allowed to put stamps on their invoices.
I explained the necessity, but still refused. He told me to go and see the manager, so I did.
Also to her, I explained the situation, but she refused just the same.
At that point, I saw that no solution would be found, so I decided to solve the problem myself.
I firmly walked to the reception, took the stamp that was on the desk, and stamped the document myself, before the baffled staff had any time to react.
Of course, when they realised what had happened, all hell broke loose, but still, I already had got what I wanted.

Rexy
25-10-2011, 00:25
Being a born Russian I can nevertheless state that living in Russia has changed my personality. I was born in Soviet Union and grown up in absolutely another country. As a child I was taught that police were here to help me and I could rely on them and trust them. I should be kind and attentive to other people e.g. let elderly people have a seat in transport. I was also taught that some day I would have a job according to my choice and if I work hard I would be appreciated by the colleagues and society in general. HA-HA-HA.
Of course I still try to be polite and respectful, but the reality cease my willing. Every day I go to work by metro with my noticeably pregnant colleague and it is hard to believe but young men usually sit in front of us and nonchalantly listen to my grumbling that our country is doomed if nobody lets a pregnant woman have a sit!!!

robertmf
25-10-2011, 01:33
Being a born Russian I can nevertheless state that living in Russia has changed my personality. I was born in Soviet Union and grown up in absolutely another country.

Пожалльста, what was the 'other country' :question:

Rexy
25-10-2011, 01:54
Maybe the problem is the "grumbling". Why not just ask them to get up?

Of course, the flip side of the coin is how do you know these young men are not injured themselves? Maybe they have back or leg problems that make it difficult for them to stand...

Firstly, we just stand and chat and later I notice that absolutely healthy men sitting near us start pretending they are sleeping. That causes my grumbling))) Maybe they are injured. Every day lots of injured men around. It is a pity. That is why we are doomed))) All young men are injured. The funniest thing is that only women let her have a seat))))) Perhaps they understand how it feels.

Rexy
25-10-2011, 01:56
Пожалльста, what was the 'other country' :question:

hmmm....the Russian Federation?

MickeyTong
25-10-2011, 03:56
:floating: ... IMhO MickeyT might say that you are "going native" and developing sociopathic tendencies :question:


MickeyT has spent 20+ years working with psychopaths, schizophrenics, alcoholics, smackheads, paedophiles, rapists, thieves, murderers and assorted low-life specimens of the human race. His longevity in this environment has been possible only because he has an unshakable (and valid) awareness of his own value. On a daily basis, he deals with people who play "head games" and have an over inflated sense of egocentric entitlement. Amateurs.....playing with a professional.
Sometimes, civility is seen as weakness, and uncompromising self-assertion is the only appropriate and effective response. "Sociopathy" is relative: what is sociopathic in one situation is ethical in a different situation.

MickeyTong
25-10-2011, 03:58
Maybe the problem is the "grumbling". Why not just ask them to get up?

Of course, the flip side of the coin is how do you know these young men are not injured themselves? Maybe they have back or leg problems that make it difficult for them to stand...

Why not just "tell" them to get up? Unless they have health problems.....

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 07:19
I would have followed the chain of command higher...

And how high should you go in this chain of command? And how much time would you be prepared to spend on this?

OK, you get to the highest in command. He still says : no stamp.

You do what ?

Carl
25-10-2011, 09:10
drtnsnw, Carl,

What would you have done in the situation that I described ?[/I]

That's odd. I'm in Istanbul on business about every 6 weeks.... Never had a service problem. In fact, I'd say the Turkish hotel staff often go above & beyond what one would expect in terms of guest service... but that's besides the point.

Perhaps your negotiating skills are not that sharp? Maybe you're just not a very persuasive person? I find it had to believe that I could not get the mentioned stamp on any peace of paper I needed. Surely I would not have had to resort to grabbing the hotels stamp and helping myself....



..And I'd be hard pressed to imagine a situation where I would be cutting in front of 60-70 Chinese at the airport..just because I could, or because I thought my time was more valuable then thiers (most likely is)..because it's just plan rude and inconsiderate behavior.

FatAndy
25-10-2011, 09:18
The guy at the reception told me that he would not do this, because he only was allowed to put stamps on their invoices.

You didn't break any rule. The rule of that stamp usage was for that guy, not for you. I'm doubt there was any rule forbidding usage of the stamp by guest. Then it is permitted. ;)

Periwinkle
25-10-2011, 09:24
I have been living in Russia for more than 3 years now. Slowly but surely, this experience has made me somewhat `tougher`.

Example : Last week I was in Istanbul in a 5* business hotel in the center, with a group of Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian customers.
One of them needed to get a stamp from the hotel on the `kommandirovichnoe`.
She did not speak English, so she asked me to go to the reception of the hotel and explain that she needed stamps on this document.
The guy at the reception told me that he would not do this, because he only was allowed to put stamps on their invoices.
I explained the necessity, but still refused. He told me to go and see the manager, so I did.
Also to her, I explained the situation, but she refused just the same.
At that point, I saw that no solution would be found, so I decided to solve the problem myself.
I firmly walked to the reception, took the stamp that was on the desk, and stamped the document myself, before the baffled staff had any time to react.
Of course, when they realised what had happened, all hell broke loose, but still, I already had got what I wanted.

Before my life in Russia, I would have not even thought of this solution, but now I got this attitude `don`t mess with me !`

Any similar experiences from other expats.

I would not call what you describe as 'tougher', more like self centered, rude, arrogant.... Those words come to mind.

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 09:28
That's odd. I'm in Istanbul on business about every 6 weeks.... Never had a service problem. In fact, I'd say the Turkish hotel staff often go above & beyond what one would expect in terms of guest service... but that's besides the point.

But still it happened to me (and I am in Istanbul on a regular basis, and yes the service is usually OK).


Perhaps your negotiating skills are not that sharp? Maybe you're just not a very persuasive person? I find it had to believe that I could not get the mentioned stamp on any peace of paper I needed. Surely I would not have had to resort to grabbing the hotels stamp and helping myself....

What is there to negotiate. I am their customer, forking out 40 kEUR for a group of 40 customers. When I go to the reception and say I need a stamp, and I even explain why I need this stamp, they should not even question this.
So, if you don`t manage to negotiate higher up in the hierarchy (again, how high are you willing to go, and how long are you willing to be busy with this), and you don`t resort to taking the stamp, then you simply won`t get what you want.


..And I'd be hard pressed to imagine a situation where I would be cutting in front of 60-70 Chinese at the airport..just because I could, or because I thought my time was more valuable then thiers (most likely is)..because it's just plan rude and inconsiderate behavior.

If you don`t do this in Russia, you get screwed, because no doubt, others will do it.

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 09:30
I would not call what you describe as 'tougher', more like self centered, rude, arrogant.... Those words come to mind.

Yes, all the same.
But that is also a change, because I did not do this in my home country (and don`t do it when I get home again). It is just so that in Moscow I have to switch on this Russia-mode, and yes that is self-centered, rude and arrogant, and a lot more.

Carl
25-10-2011, 09:38
If you don`t do this in Russia, you get screwed, because no doubt, others will do it.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.. I've managed pretty well over the past 18 years in Russia..without having to be rude, self-centered & inconsiderate. When I see others cut in line or act rude..I call them out.
Hope to see you at the airport soon....))

L'oiseau bleu
25-10-2011, 10:41
Sometimes, civility is seen as weakness, and uncompromising self-assertion is the only appropriate and effective response. "Sociopathy" is relative: what is sociopathic in one situation is ethical in a different situation.

What a healthy approach. Such statements save my positive attitude to Westerners who are usually kept in their own built cages, they torture themselves and blame others if they do not do the same.

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 11:25
When I see others cut in line or act rude..I call them out.
Hope to see you at the airport soon....))

See, you are assertive as well. When I see others cut in line in front of me, or if they are rude to me, I react as well. When they jump in line but still behind me, I don`t care. When they are rude to somebody else, I don`t care either.
But calling out, you can basically only do, when you are a big guy yourself.

BrandonL
25-10-2011, 11:50
Yes, all the same.
But that is also a change, because I did not do this in my home country (and don`t do it when I get home again). It is just so that in Moscow I have to switch on this Russia-mode, and yes that is self-centered, rude and arrogant, and a lot more.

and you probably still wont do it in your home country. rules, laws and the police are different and so are the people.
in America if you did this, I'm almost sure the police will come And you'd have a major problem.
people in America IMO know there job a little better and if they say they can't they will give you a proper reason at which point you wont have to do what you did.
sorry for my run on sentence and poor grammar. sending this from my phone.

a few weeks ago i almost got into a fight. was in the metro which was empty. some Guy with tunnel vision walks into me, causing me to run into my girlfriend who hit the wall and fell to the floor! the Guy kept walking so I pushed him down some steps and a fight almost broke out.
in the states this would almost never happen. either the Guy would have walked around me or apologized for what he did.
the Russian Guy is still probably confused on why I almost kicked his ass.

BrandonL
25-10-2011, 11:54
See, you are assertive as well. When I see others cut in line in front of me, or if they are rude to me, I react as well. When they jump in line but still behind me, I don`t care. When they are rude to somebody else, I don`t care either.
But calling out, you can basically only do, when you are a big guy yourself.

two wrongs don't make it right.
all because someone else does it, doesn't mean you should do it.
be the bigger person.

:11513:

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 11:59
and you probably still wont do it in your home country. rules, laws and the police are different and so are the people.
Like I wrote : I did not do this before, and I still don`t do this at home. It is not necessary to do this at home, but in Russia, it is.


in America if you did this, I'm almost sure the police will come And you'd have a major problem.
I know... it`s a police state.


people in America IMO know there job a little better and if they say they can't they will give you a proper reason at which point you wont have to do what you did.
I don`t need the proper reason for not giving the stamp. I need the stamp!


a few weeks ago i almost got into a fight. was in the metro which was empty. some Guy with tunnel vision walks into me, causing me to run into my girlfriend who hit the wall and fell to the floor!
So, why did you run into your girlfriend? You should have just walked on and have him fall to the floor.
On the other side, do you think he walked into you on purpose ?

BrandonL
25-10-2011, 12:32
let me clarify I was walking next to her when he ran into me from behind it caused me to hit my girlfriend into the wall.

I guess since people do it to me, I should do it back to them? nah I'm better then that.

also I don't care if he ment it or not. the metro was empty he had 4 meters to walk past me. instead he walked into me.
it's called common courtesy, something Russians lack IMO

also you needed a stamp which could have been illegal for you to do yourself. but since the police don't care here. you did it.
if this person provided you a 100% valid reason why he can't give You a stamp I'm sure you would have acted differently

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 12:36
let me clarify I was walking next to her when he ran into me from behind it caused me to hit my girlfriend into the wall.

I guess since people do it to me, I should do it back to them? nah I'm better then that.

Then it may have been on purpose... just to steal your wallet or something.
You should have given him one on the nose, and for real, not `almost`.
I didn`t say that I walk into people, and neither should you. But, if they walk into you, defend yourself.

xSnoofovich
25-10-2011, 12:39
when he ran into me from behind


it's called common courtesy, something Russians lack IMO



So, basically what you are saying is something like this would never have happened in NYC or Chicago.

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 12:41
also I don't care if he ment it or not. the metro was empty he had 4 meters to walk past me. instead he walked into me.
it's called common courtesy, something Russians lack IMO

So, it is not like in your country, and you immediately think it is a `lack` of Russians...
Why don`t you then simply adapt to this situation. I bet it would make you feel a whole lot more comfortable.

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 12:47
So you have a problem when people cut in front of you, but yet you have no problem cutting in front of others?

YES.
However, this does not mean that I always cut the line. In fact I seldom do. But if I feel it is necessary, I don`t hesitate.
For instance, with the group of Chinese, it would have meant a waiting time of 2 hours of more. I had better things to do, and they did not.

BrandonL
25-10-2011, 12:50
So, basically what you are saying is something like this would never have happened in NYC or Chicago.

in an empty metro? no it wouldn't.


So, it is not like in your country, and you immediately think it is a `lack` of Russians...
Why don`t you then simply adapt to this situation. I bet it would make you feel a whole lot more comfortable.
I've been here for 5 years I'm more then comfortable. I've adapted. but I wont adapt to what I think is negative

L'oiseau bleu
25-10-2011, 12:52
it's called common courtesy, something Russians lack IMO



BrandonL, dear, do you really really believe that such people happen only in this damned for you country????
The level of your generalization, biased attitude to country where u live and internal superiority compex of being representative of somebody who is special is unbelievable.

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 12:57
Upon reading this, I think the whole problem you had was based on how you treated the staff.

What makes you think that?
The easiest way to get things done from people is to ask them nicely, and this is what I did. Usually, this works fine.
They did not want to put the stamp because it was against their regulations.
I don`t need the explanation why this is against their regulations, I just need the stamp. They would not give it, so I took it.

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 12:59
How do you know you had better things to do? Did you actually ask them what they had to do?

Your actions (and justifications) just show you are part of the problem, not the solution. You have proven to be a hypocrite with an over-inflated sense of self-worth.

What is hypocritical about that? I openly state my opinion, I am not hiding anything, am I ?

BrandonL
25-10-2011, 13:01
BrandonL, dear, do you really really believe that such people happen only in this damned for you country????
The level of your generalization, biased attitude to country where u live and internal superiority compex of being representative of somebody who is special is unbelievable.

when did I ever say it doesn't happen in other countries? we are talking about Russia here)

L'oiseau bleu
25-10-2011, 13:14
I will say, it doesn't ONLY happen here, but the level at which it does happen here is ridiculous. In the metro, on the sidewalks, in traffic, if you give way, it is considered weakness, regardless of "right of way".

At least in the US, MOST of the time when someone bumps into you, they will say "excuse me".

OK.
Listen. American society produces people learning everybody hypocrasy and emotional conticipation (That is why Brandon cannot wait untl he reaches normal laptop and writing from his mobile - so much shit is pouring out). It would be OK if you guys keep it in your country. But majority of you try to dissiminate it around the world really believing this is high mission. It is world psychological catastrophe. I truly believe it, sorry.
No, not all Americans are like that as there is no such nation as Americans in fact, this is guest country. I know many who have other values but in States there is very harsh difference and separation between middle and upper class. If in Russia poor teacher would buy tickets to opera form her salary, in States only those who are from upper middle class would be interested in such things. The majority is stuck between bar and .. bar - this is all scope of interest. And you guys come here and think you have smth we have to learn?

when you come here, do not forget you come to country of different culture and different way of thinking. so learn and take the best instead of sitting in your cage barking around.

When I come to Asia for example I can't eat in some places as they are dirty for me, but I try to learn and watch. I watch what is good there , why I have been sent there. This is the task to resolve, not one more place to demonstrate my deficient endless ego.

yakspeare
25-10-2011, 13:17
Hmm....I can sympathize with the op, and appreciate his honesty. I may have taken the stamp too, but I wouldn't have cut infront of the Chinese. If ere was some urgency I might ask them politely....and I would think they normally would comply with this.

I have had a few run ins with security staff....once in Volgograd where I was taking photos of the shopping centre's Christmas decorations....there were no signs to say photography was prohibited but this guy tried to take my camera...I stopped but he still wanted my camera, and was basically being a jerk....so as I was going down the escalators I called him a durack...he didn't like this and came after me on the escalators and tried to grab me and take me back somewhere to talk to him. I didn't believe calling him a name warranted such attention and told him to let go...he continued so after saying it repeatedly , I punched him and broke his nose....more security cam and tried to herd me away but I managed to get to the exits and knew then that ,even Russian law, was on my side....if they continued after me...and I got away.

Today, I was in a big hardware store with a friend...as we were leaving a security guy told us to follow him....my Russian friend immediately complied so I had to follow and we went into a room and they closed the door. Five minutes later a bunch of other guys were herded in and security apologized to us, they had mistaken us for them. I was quietly furious with my friend and told him to never let himself be herded off like that in my presence. If security feel they have the right to detain you, they better have a good reason....because otherwise I will demand they interview me near the exit, where they found me, in front of anyone...I am not interested in going to back rooms, where anything could happen. If they want to search me they can do it in public, and suspicion, under our law, is not grounds to detain...you have to be certain...thus if they insisted I follow them and not do it in public, I would insist on leaving, using violent force, if needed, if they try and hold me against my will. I would allow them to search me in public, but only as such.

rusmeister
25-10-2011, 13:34
In responding to the OP, I'd say most of all that here I have been made aware of how little control I really have over life. In the US, esp. as a citizen, you can live with a strong illusion of being "the master of your fate; the captain of your (own) soul". But living here in Russia, I've come to realize that much of our lives are truly out of our control.

That actually facilitates faith, for, if we can completely take care of ourselves in life, then we don't need God. It is when we sense our powerlessness, when things go wrong, when we can't control them, that we perceive that we are not completely sufficient unto ourselves. (Thus, the Russian "Пока гром не грянет, мужик не перекрестится")

I think that death, the great democratic equalizer, brings even Americans in the US to at least that awareness (Thus the saying "There are no atheists in foxholes", and the pre-death cries of "Jesus Christ!" and "Oh my God!" which even the most materialist materialists do not not refrain from in their last extremity), if not further. Anyway, in Russia I am much more clearly and constantly reminded of my need for God, and for faith - not as a magic bullet to solve all problems, but to grasp what their ultimate Solution is.

Another thing that I more gradually changed on was from seeing beggars simply with disgust to seeing them as people in need. I used to just spurn them and pride myself on not supporting a local mafia.
I usually don't know what effective help looks like for them, other than handing them a McDonald's cheeseburger or a packet of juice to drink. I try to support my local charities and people who DO know how to help them more effectively.

On SV's case, I think it very difficult to judge casually from the outside. There is so much that we do not know. Would the use of the stamp threaten an employee's job, for example? It seems clear that there is nothing specifically immoral about merely using the stamp to accomplish a legitimate confirmation, no matter whose hand guided it. But are we hurting others by doing so? I, frankly, couldn't say, without knowing a good deal more about the context of the politics regarding employees at that hotel. But I would consider that it might threaten their jobs.

moscowmail
25-10-2011, 13:47
Wow, so much aggression towards the OP, I think your question is a very good one and made me think, whether I agree with you or not is quite frankly irrelevant, you were there, you spent a lot of money, you expected a service, your tried to escalate it but to no ends

I probably would have done something similar, or shouted very loudly and caused them an embarrassment, again, I don't know the whole situation, but I tend not to accept stupid bureaucracy when I come across, it, I don't think it is illegal what you did, maybe against their company policy

Guys, simmer down, chillax

My answer to your question, yes it has changed me, I have a furious temper which I have only recently learned to keep under wraps until I play Ozzie rules footy and let it pour out on to the field

Speaking honestly, yes I jump lines of people waiting who are not ready to be processed or will undoubtedly delay us all for no other reason but because they are just too stupid (see below for example) often because I know if I don't I will be waiting for hours, is this rude and arrogant, absolutely, will I justify it, nope, dog eat dog and all that, will I jump an organized and well monitored line of people waiting, nope

Example, I fly quite a lot, and when going through the bag checks and metal detectors most people, yes around 90% will wait until they put their bags on the belt, then slowly remove their coats, shoes, belts and still come back to put their mobile phones, open laptops etc, for goodness sake, it is well sign posted what needs to be done, so yes, I will move in front, fully ready for the belt, not just these lines either

I am less tolerant than I used to be, still courteous though and tend to be patient until I see idiocy

All countries have their problems but I feel safer here in Russia then I would in the UK for example, or the US

However, I am planning on moving to some where less polluted and with less stupid bloody driving

On a side note, the driving here has become worse, why? no offense ladies, there are far more women on the roads and their quality of driving is abysmal, this is from every day driving on the Roads of Moscow, it is in the system were the majority of people pay for their license, why woman in particular, I do this every day, I watch the drivers, 9 out of 10 women are on the phone and simply drift or simply do not care about other drivers, yes a lot of men are bad as well, but more noticeably, in my humble opinion, are the women

There, I feel better now :)

Again, guys, turn the aggression down a notch :)

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 14:14
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Shall I link you the definition of hypocrite?

You are bothered by people cutting you in line, and yet you have no problem doing it yourself. That is hypocritical.

hyp·o·crite   /ˈhɪpəkrɪt/ Show Spelled[hip-uh-krit] Show IPA
noun
1.a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2.a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

So, tell me, how am I being a hypocrite ???
As I understand it, if I would say `I would never cut the line`, but in reality I would cut the line, that would make me a hypocrite.
I clearly say : `I will cut the line (under circumstances)`, and I really do so.
This in fact is quite the contrary of hypocrite, it is honest.

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 14:32
Wow, so much aggression towards the OP, I think your question is a very good one and made me think,

...and it even was THEIR stamp that I used...

But the question was `has living in Russia changed you ?`.
My answer is YES. I am interested to hear if this is the same for other expats.

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 14:37
You said you don't like it when people cut in front of you,

Yes


and yet you do it to others.

Yes, under certain circumstances.



So yes, you are a hypocrite.

I would be if I said :`I don`t like it when people cut in front of me, and therefore I don`t do this to others` but would act differently.
I say one thing and I act accordingly. Nothing hypocritical about that.

moscowmail
25-10-2011, 14:51
Now you are just playing a game of semantics. :11513:


What have you got against the Jewish people.. :) love the pic

Doc, and OP, just agree to disagree, I can see both your points and it is rather distracting from the original question me thinks

Besides, I fancy some donuts (dunkin donuts shop 4 mins from where I live.. aghhh) but I am trying to cut down, oh yeah, Russia made me ever so fat, instead of just fat

xSnoofovich
25-10-2011, 15:07
For me, Russia has taught me a few things, such as- ( i guess these are more like random observations rather clear-cut lessons.)

Beer-

Americans think that small cans of tasteless colored water are wonderful beer. Example: Budwesier, Coors, Coors light, Miller. (Except for micro-brews, which are some of the best in the world.)

Russian beer is cheap and big and crap. Big is good, but the quality is only determined by how long the beer has been sitting on the shelf. The only determiner is where they rank on the crappiness scale. The great equalizer is the cold. For the most part, cold beer always tastes good.

Except for Heineken. Russia has taught me I really dislike Heineken, and it is sure to give me a headache the next day.

Drinking?

Americans really lack drinking skills. The basic idea in America is to drink as much (cheap) alcohol as you can, as quickly as you can, to get as drunk as you can. Then watch as the hilarity ensues. Jell-O shots anyone?

Russians on the other hand, try to drink as much as they can, as long as they can, all the while trying to stay as sober as possible the entire time. Which is a real talent (not necessarily a good one !), considering that the drinking sessions could go on for hours and the number of bottles to be drunk are only limited by the number of friends that are able to stumble to the store to buy more.

Vodka is crap. It is a cheap devilish drink that lacks both character and soul (and taste!).

Americans really don't know how to drink vodka, and really lack a classy vodka drinking culture. If wine and cheese can be paired, surely vodka and zukuski can and should be paired as well. And how often does an acoustic guitar make an appearance at an American party?

Russians (for the most part) really know nothing about fine liquor. And why should they? vodka is cheap and plentiful. Russians drink expensive (or cheap) whiskey like vodka. Mixed with soda, juice, whatever. Whiskey, unlike vodka, has a soul. A bite. An edge. Whiskey, like fine wine, has many subtle flavors and distinguishing characteristics that differentiate and separate it according the price/taste/quality spectrum.

Russia taught me that if someone wants to mix their Johnny Walker blue with coke or juice, then it really is none of my business. And I shouldn't be mad or even care. The important thing is the company that is being kept by sharing the bottle. Anything less is simply being pretentious.

Drugs?

Russia has crappy selection of drugs. Not only are they expensive, but the quality is terrible. And if you get caught with them, Russians don't screw around. You go to jail (Tig Hauge), or pay an extremely high price ($$$$).

America has an excellent selection of drugs that are very cheap and are of a very high quality. If you get caught with drugs in America, there are many ways to weasel out of the consequences, so that makes it hard to take the laws seriously.

Appearances?

American people in general are slobs. Just People just don't care about their appearances. One simply needs to go to the local grocery stores or look at the weekend posts on FB to see this. Overweight much? nom-nom. Suits? Muhahahahahaha. Dress shoes? What are those? In addition, Americans only know one way to tie a tie. And everyone in America ties it the same way. In fact, it is easy to spot an American businessman in Moscow. Just look at the knot on the tie. Also, the suits in America look cheap, for the most part. And what is up with the Khaki pants/white shirt/stupid-cheesy tie + blue blazer look?

Russia? Lots of the same everywhere, although almost every guy (at least any guy anyone worth talking 2) has at least one suit, and wears button up collars several times a month. Shoes? Most people have clean shoes, and spotless shoes are a high priority. Clothes? Many Russians wear the same thing at least 2x a week.

Food?

Portions in America are huge. And unnecessary. And unhealthy. Not only do I not need a bucket of cola to go with lunch/dinner, I don't need a freaking huge plate of deep-fried fat drenched in sugary sweet sauce. Americans don't really do soup. Or tea. or good bread. and love processed food in unnatural colors + flavors.

Russia? Dill ! Dill ! Dill ! dill on everything ! even on ice cream ! and soon to be on cake + and is already on sushi! Russian food is basically peasant food that really requires no great talent to cook, or thought put into it. Got mayonnaise? Let's "cook" some Russian food.

Another thing that Russia has taught me is to love soup with lunch. Lunch without a soup just isn't the same. And, that I don’t need a huge plate of mediocre food to enjoy my meal. Someone once said – “it is better to have less, but of better quality.”

Countryside-

America is the best. Before I lived in Russia, I had no idea how awesome America was (I mean, I saw a large part of the country, I guess I just took it for granted). We have it all. Deserts? Check. Forests? Check. Mountains? Check. In fact, just about every micro-climate can be found in America. And Americans don’t need a visa to go see it. The roads are great, and nice toilets are abundant. Of course, the strip malls are the same everywhere, and so are the convenience stores.

Russia is pretty much the same west to east. Haven’t been too much to the south, so don’t really know. I have seen pictures of palm trees in Sochi. However, for the rest of the country, learn to love the white trees (birch or aspen, I don’t know what they are). And be prepared to stop a few times to change flat tires. At least the moikas usually have a little cafes that you can buy some borscht and have sto gramm, so its not all bad.

Quality?

Most Russians know nothing about quality. The only thing they know is that the more expensive it is, the better it is. And maybe, for the most part, there is some truth to this. However, I refuse to believe that imported cows milk from Germany is any better than Russian milk.

Etc. Etc.

moscowmail
25-10-2011, 15:22
Semantic, not semitic... :groan:

NEVER EVER cut down on donuts!

Ahh, now I get it, my Dickleksia again :)

BabyFirefly
25-10-2011, 15:42
Oh yeah, I also learned to act like many Russian woman and realize appearances are much more important than characther in many small, daily situations.
I've learned America is just a lazy culture. "Cooking" is not boiling pasta and throwing whatever crap canned sauce you have. You have to learn how to fix situations and just things in general.
I've also learned not to be scared. Backin my state crime was really bad, and to be honest I just lived in fear.Here I don't. Life's too short to not go out and enjoy nice things because of crime.

Carl
25-10-2011, 17:17
For instance, with the group of Chinese, it would have meant a waiting time of 2 hours of more. I had better things to do, and they did not.

There you have it folks... Our friend SV1973 has better things to do then a whole group of Chinese..so he is surly justified in cutting in line. How important he must be!!

Well, you certainly are in the right place. Many here 'think' they are better then most, have better things to do... Welcome!!

..and for all you 'lesser' folks out there.. don't get upset the next time you see some Pr**k cutting in front of you...they just have better things to do then you!! Get over it!!!

robertmf
25-10-2011, 17:28
Oh yeah, I also learned to act like many Russian woman and realize appearances are much more important than characther in many small, daily situations.

For all exPats ... When you go 'back home' do people ask you why you have a "funny accent" now :question:



I've learned America is just a lazy culture. "Cooking" is not boiling pasta and throwing whatever crap canned sauce you have. You have to learn how to fix situations and just things in general.

:applause: I've learned to slave over a hot crock pot all night long ...



I've also learned not to be scared. Backin my state crime was really bad, and to be honest I just lived in fear.Here I don't. Life's too short to not go out and enjoy nice things because of crime.

Where are you from ... Detroit :question:


Shopping in Detroit (http://dumpalink.com/videos/Shopping_in_detroit-3fif.html)

Carl
25-10-2011, 17:33
It is just so that in Moscow I have to switch on this Russia-mode, and yes that is self-centered, rude and arrogant, and a lot more.

How F'd up is this..??
This guy thinks you have to be a complete a**hole to live in Russia!! Dude, keep up the good work!!! Little wonder many people around the world have negative feelings about Americans..... WTF??

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 17:39
Well, you certainly are in the right place. Many here 'think' they are better then most, have better things to do... Welcome!!

It seems that finally you are getting to the point of the thread. Did `living in Moscow` change you? In my case, it did.
You seem to have noticed that the things I described happen quite a lot in Russia. Contrary to you, I do not make a moral judgement out of this all, but just do the same. Whether other people like me or not for this, leaves me just plain cold.

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 17:42
How F'd up is this..??
This guy thinks you have to be a complete a**hole to live in Russia!! Dude, keep up the good work!!! Little wonder many people around the world have negative feelings about Americans..... WTF??

Well, well, it is not me that is calling people `douchebag`, `a**hole`, `pr**k`,...
Oh, and by the way, leave the Americans out of this. They have got nothing to do with this.

Rexy
25-10-2011, 18:03
How long have you been a doctor?
Maybe these men just finished work...
You make alot of assumptions.

C'mon! Are you serious? I've written that it happens every morning. Have they all worked the whole night? Have you heard the instructions given in Metro? Every 10 minutes they say: "Dear passengers, we kindly ask you to let elderly people, passengers with children and pregnant women have a seat". And I do so. No matter how tired I am. Because I hope somebody will do the same for my granny or pregnant friend. You won't have to sand more than 30 minutes anyway! Perhaps it is not a normal behavior for the US, the UK, European countries or modern Russia. That is what I call being brought up in another country.
May I ask what caused your irritation by my comment? I don't say that those who don't let her have a seat are bastards. There can be different situations. I've just pointed out the tendency previously not so common. Is it my mentioning of the Soviet Union that puts you off?

****writing in my notebook: "drtnsnw doesn't let pregnant women have a seat"****

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 18:09
C'mon! Are you serious? I've written that it happens every morning. Have they all worked the whole night? Have you heard the instructions given in Metro? Every 10 minutes they say: "Dear passengers, we kindly ask you to let elderly people, passengers with children and pregnant women have a seat". And I do so. No matter how tired I am. Because I hope somebody will do the same for my granny or pregnant friend. You won't have to sand more than 30 minutes anyway! Perhaps it is not a normal behavior for the US, the UK, European countries or modern Russia. That is what I call being brought up in another country.
May I ask what caused your irritation by my comment? I don't say that those who don't let her have a seat are bastards. There can be different situations. I've just pointed out the tendency previously not so common. Is it my mentioning of the Soviet Union that puts you off?

****writing in my notebook: "drtnsnw doesn't let pregnant women have a seat"****

This may come as a surprise to Carl, drtnsnw,... but this b*st*rd, actually always gives up his place for the following categories :
- handicapped people
- elderly people
- pregnant women
- parents with children
Always and immediately, before they even have the time to ask.

Carl
25-10-2011, 20:51
This may come as a surprise to Carl, drtnsnw,... but this b*st*rd, actually always gives up his place for the following categories :
- handicapped people
- elderly people
- pregnant women
- parents with children
Always and immediately, before they even have the time to ask.

Unless of course if they happen to be Chinese,.. and in an airport....))

SV1973a
25-10-2011, 21:31
Unless of course if they happen to be Chinese,.. and in an airport....))

Yes, even if they are Chinese... AND even in the airport.
For the others, I don`t give a damn.

BrandonL
25-10-2011, 22:12
OK.
Listen. American society produces people learning everybody hypocrasy and emotional conticipation (That is why Brandon cannot wait untl he reaches normal laptop and writing from his mobile

I was on a a 1 hour bus, I had plenty of time to post what I wanted.


so much shit is pouring out). It would be OK if you guys keep it in your country. But majority of you try to dissiminate it around the world really believing this is high mission. It is world psychological catastrophe. I truly believe it, sorry.

EVERY body from different countries does this, I love how you point out just Americans, Go to Myrtle Beach, or Brighton beach, shows Russian's do it as much as us.


No, not all Americans are like that as there is no such nation as Americans in fact, this is guest country. I know many who have other values but in States there is very harsh difference and separation between middle and upper class.
What nationality doesn't have this?
pretty sure there is a harsh separation of upper and middle class here, shit, even poor and middle class


If in Russia poor teacher would buy tickets to opera form her salary, in States only those who are from upper middle class would be interested in such things. The majority is stuck between bar and .. bar - this is all scope of interest. And you guys come here and think you have smth we have to learn?

Wow, what a lame generalization, I could point out so many flaws, but I won't.
Opera, isn't our kinda of thing in the states, I know PLENTY of poor people, that buy tickets to plays, theater, and so forth.


when you come here, do not forget you come to country of different culture and different way of thinking. so learn and take the best instead of sitting in your cage barking around.
I can once again say this about EVERY nationality. stop being so arrogant.
Oh American's are so stupid, they always smile at people, they are so fake, sound kinda familiar eh?
Oh American's are dumb, I watched those TV shows that are fake, but I don't know they are fake, and they don't know anything!
Oh American's are so fat, all they do is eat eat eat.
Shall I go on, or do you get the point?


When I come to Asia for example I can't eat in some places as they are dirty for me, but I try to learn and watch. I watch what is good there , why I have been sent there. This is the task to resolve, not one more place to demonstrate my deficient endless ego.

Oh you're so high and mighty, trying to watch and learn, yet you STILL don't eat there, instead you watch in amazement, how such people could eat in such places, oh the arrogance is pouring out from you.


I've lived here for five years, I've experienced a lot, I can tell you I know for a fact, I've seen more culture and more of the world, then you can possibly fathom, and the people who know me here, will agree with me here.

You narrow minded all high and mighty view astound me, in not a good way.
You live under a rock.

I don't go around, being arrogant, acting like I'm better then other people. I accept, and understand, that the way of life, what people do are always going to be different. I judge what is right and wrong, myself, and I don't let anyone else make a decision for me. EVERY person does, from background, to society, to culture, it's how we judge the world.
The simple minded people, are the one that do and think, how other people want them too.
I based my views on my personal opinion, and on how I treat, and wish to be treated by others, I don't cut in line, why? They've been waiting longer then me, I wouldn't want someone to cut in front of me either, if they are going slow, how does that give me the power, to go, screw you, I'm going ahead of you? that shows ignorance, and going off, that you are better then others.

I don't run into people on the metro, I look around, and i'm aware of others, because I wouldn't want people running into me.

Do to others, what you want done to yourself. Think about it.
You want to be rude to others, and be a complete A**hole, and then you turn around and cry when people are rude and an A**hole to you, how ironic. (this refers to a previous post) Not directly calling anyone an A**hole

L'oiseau bleu
26-10-2011, 00:12
Now this is the attempt to normal dispute. Respect, Brandon.
Well.. these attempts to direct insult, but that is OK, I couldn't care less.
But we are speaking so different languages that I do not know where to start:) For some strange reason u have so stable initial assumptions about me (like why did u decide I lived only in Russia and do not have experience of living in other countries for several years or monthes? ) and u do not know me much at person that I am really surprised.
However, all your arguments can be resumed to two points:
Authority position: I am narrow minded because I do not have your priceless experience (my almost 36 years were quite interesting, you know:))
and second is just emotions: I am arrogant because I openly say what I think and do not flow with that above mentioned "herd" of Russians who support your valuable thesis in bars.
So please continue feeling comfortable in your world, leaving me a label - I have a collection of them:) but this one I already have got before:)

robertmf
26-10-2011, 00:43
IMhO, :piano: Успокойтесь, вы оба.

MashaSashina
26-10-2011, 00:56
What makes you think that?
The easiest way to get things done from people is to ask them nicely, and this is what I did. Usually, this works fine.
They did not want to put the stamp because it was against their regulations.
I don`t need the explanation why this is against their regulations, I just need the stamp. They would not give it, so I took it.
It seems to me that you didn't really need the stamp, but to be a hero. :)
I don't blame you and really appreciate your honesty.
I always thought there were too many home-made Rambos in Russia who needed to demonstrate their strength just the way you described above. But I believed it was the Russian's feature.
Now i think it has rather social roots, not genetic ones if foreigners (well at least 1 of them) behave the same way after some years in Russia (by the way in Moscow or other cities also?)
I don't blame you... I think I can understand that sometimes you can feel respected or even safe here only keeping in mind that you can fight or break the rules or disregard consequences for people around. :(
As I understand you just discovered the ape we all have inside and now enjoy following it's appeal (and society here allows it) and I hope you'll play enough soon, cause being a human is much more difficult and valuable (especially after you realized you were an ape) :)

winner
26-10-2011, 01:07
On a side note, the driving here has become worse, why? no offense ladies, there are far more women on the roads and their quality of driving is abysmal, this is from every day driving on the Roads of Moscow, it is in the system were the majority of people pay for their license, why woman in particular, I do this every day, I watch the drivers, 9 out of 10 women are on the phone and simply drift or simply do not care about other drivers, yes a lot of men are bad as well, but more noticeably, in my humble opinion, are the women:)

You think this way because you're a men. It's normall for many men to look at women! That's why you see only bad ladies - drivers! :zoom:

robertmf
26-10-2011, 04:19
You think this way because you're men. It's normall for many men to look at women! That's why you see only bad women drivers! :zoom:

:11629:

BrandonL
26-10-2011, 08:34
Now this is the attempt to normal dispute. Respect, Brandon.
Well.. these attempts to direct insult, but that is OK, I couldn't care less.
But we are speaking so different languages that I do not know where to start:) For some strange reason u have so stable initial assumptions about me (like why did u decide I lived only in Russia and do not have experience of living in other countries for several years or monthes? ) and u do not know me much at person that I am really surprised.
However, all your arguments can be resumed to two points:
Authority position: I am narrow minded because I do not have your priceless experience (my almost 36 years were quite interesting, you know:))
and second is just emotions: I am arrogant because I openly say what I think and do not flow with that above mentioned "herd" of Russians who support your valuable thesis in bars.
So please continue feeling comfortable in your world, leaving me a label - I have a collection of them:) but this one I already have got before:)


I never assumed you've only been to Russia, I just said, I know I've traveled more then you, and seen more of the world then you could possibly fathom.
Big difference

SV1973a
26-10-2011, 08:45
It seems to me that you didn't really need the stamp, but to be a hero. :)
If the stamp was not really needed, I would not even have bothered...
All happened very quickly and without any shouting or any violence. I just went over to the reception, took the stamp and stamped the document.
About the hero part, that was not my intention, but it DID earn great respect from the Russians in my group.


Now i think it has rather social roots, not genetic ones if foreigners (well at least 1 of them) behave the same way after some years in Russia (by the way in Moscow or other cities also?)
I only lived in Moscow (since 2008 actually), but since 1997 I travelled around the USSR very often. I have seen most major Russian, Ukrainian, Belorusian,... cities. Been to Central Asia and the Caucasus as well.


As I understand you just discovered the ape we all have inside and now enjoy following it's appeal (and society here allows it)
There is nothing to enjoy about this, nothing to be proud about either, it is just a behavorial strategy that gets results in this country. Not my fault.


and I hope you'll play enough soon, cause being a human is much more difficult and valuable (especially after you realized you were an ape)
And why should being human more difficult and valuable?

L'oiseau bleu
26-10-2011, 10:24
Still aggresively trying (and failing) to take the higher moral ground...

Look, we all know Russians don't take criticism well and usually respond by insulting other nationalities, but you just keep proving BrandonL's points here. :agree:

Why what u say about Russia calling us herd is criticism and what I say about States calling you arrogant zombi is aggressive attack?
Because Brandon travelled more? Pleaase,,.
no point to discuss.

L'oiseau bleu
26-10-2011, 10:26
I never assumed you've only been to Russia, I just said, I know I've traveled more then you, and seen more of the world then you could possibly fathom.
Big difference

Unfortunately intensive travelling is too passive way of learning. To learn u have to be empty, not full.

natlee
26-10-2011, 12:53
You think this way because you're a men. It's normall for many men to look at women! That's why you see only bad ladies - drivers! :zoom: :D Well... there *might* just be more crap female drivers, hard to tell.. my stepdad got his license fair 'n all, and he's a HORRIBLE driver, whereas *many* of my female friends are great drivers.. then again, so are most of my male friends... :) Crap male drivers tend to do the racing thing more than crap female drivers though, which ends up being incredibly dangerous (to others), as well as braking in front of slower drivers for which alone they should be hung :mad:

BrandonL
26-10-2011, 15:38
Why what u say about Russia calling us herd is criticism and what I say about States calling you arrogant zombi is aggressive attack?
Because Brandon travelled more? Pleaase,,.
no point to discuss.

I'm trying to say I've explored the world to soak in other cultures and ways of life.
you visited America? for how long? 3 months? 6 months? a year?
hardly enough time to understand a culture especially one like America, which is the hardest and most confusing culture because it's such a cesspool of other cultures mixed together.

let me ask you a simple question, what is the main and most defining thing of American culture? that all people enjoy not just for it, but for what it does, and the experience if it.
it brings all walks of life together no matter age it where you're from.
its actually two things, but they are one in the same


you answer this right and I'll respect your opinions about America.

robertmf
26-10-2011, 15:48
let me ask you a simple question, what is the main and most defining thing of American culture? that all people enjoy not just for it, but for what it does, and the experience if it.
it brings all walks of life together no matter age it where you're from.
its actually two things, but they are one in the same


you answer this right and I'll respect your opinions about America.

Well the closest I can answer is "baseball"; but I don't know the other one, so I'm curious about the "two things".

winner
26-10-2011, 16:00
:mml:

L'oiseau bleu
26-10-2011, 16:07
I'm trying to say I've explored the world to soak in other cultures and ways of life.
you visited America? for how long? 3 months? 6 months? a year?
hardly enough time to understand a culture especially one like America, which is the hardest and most confusing culture because it's such a cesspool of other cultures mixed together.

let me ask you a simple question, what is the main and most defining thing of American culture? that all people enjoy not just for it, but for what it does, and the experience if it.
it brings all walks of life together no matter age it where you're from.
its actually two things, but they are one in the same


you answer this right and I'll respect your opinions about America.

HA Ha ha ha ha!!!
you really think sweetie I will sit now and bring your all my cards just to get a credit from one more person who attacks me?
sorry, not interested. Exam others (if they agree:))))
I thought that would be a dispute and all yo can do is go personal. Pheww. Boring.
My participation in this thread is closed:)
Have fun sh***ing on others.

BrandonL
26-10-2011, 16:15
HA Ha ha ha ha!!!
you really think sweetie I will sit now and bring your all my cards just to get a credit from one more person who attacks me?
sorry, not interested. Exam others (if they agree:))))
I thought that would be a dispute and all yo can do is go personal. Pheww. Boring.
My participation in this thread is closed:)
Have fun shitting on others.

your answer, or lack of an answer, is what I was expecting.
you answered my question perfectly
thanks)))

robertmf
26-10-2011, 16:34
your answer, or lack of an answer, is what I was expecting.
you answered my question perfectly
thanks)))

Don't leave us in suspense ... :emote_popcorn: what's "the answer(s)" :question:

Bogatyr
26-10-2011, 16:37
I think Sarah06's point was a school shooting in the US will be on the news almost immediately (at times, even as it is happening) whereas here, a bombing on the Metro won't be reported for HOURS after the fact.
At least the media in the US isn't owned and operated by the government.

HAHAHAHA! Good one! But you're right, actually...rather, it's owned and operated by those who have bought the government.

BrandonL
26-10-2011, 16:43
Don't leave us in suspense ... :emote_popcorn: what's "the answer(s)" :question:


football/baseball)

moscowmail
26-10-2011, 17:13
:D Well... there *might* just be more crap female drivers, hard to tell.. my stepdad got his license fair 'n all, and he's a HORRIBLE driver, whereas *many* of my female friends are great drivers.. then again, so are most of my male friends... :) Crap male drivers tend to do the racing thing more than crap female drivers though, which ends up being incredibly dangerous (to others), as well as braking in front of slower drivers for which alone they should be hung :mad:


Moscow driving in general is bad, second only to Mumbai in my experience

My comments about the women are purely from my driving every day in Moscow for more than 12 years, I see a noticeable difference in women and I am sad to say, they are bad, yes this is a generalization and I of course have seen terrible driving from men, my main prob with women drivers is there complete indifference and lack of care for other drivers

Now, I prefer women drivers in the UK and some parts of Europe, and I hope Russia will improve

No offence was meant, I am actually a lesbian, I adore women :)

xSnoofovich
26-10-2011, 17:17
My comments about the women are purely from my driving every day in Moscow for more than 12 years, I see a noticeable difference in women

Most of the women drivers I know bought their car and then their drivers license.

Only after driving for some time did they realize that they needed to take driving lessons, and then signed up for lessons at a driving school.

moscowmail
26-10-2011, 17:18
I really can't get over the aggression and ganging up guys, I honestly thought expat was over that, I have to say it has become a lot better over the last few months and I haven't seen such aggression in a long time

If you disagree with someone, state your case, opinion or whatever, but there is no need to go into personal attacks and total insults... Jesus, let;s all grow up a little huh...

You don't need to agree with people, but it helps if we have a little respect for their right to speak me thinks

BrandonL
26-10-2011, 17:31
let's dig a little deeper into what a personal insult is. I mean If you really think about it anything could be a personal insult.

but anyways for instance you are an educated person and you tell me men are better then women in every aspect.

I will call you ignorant. now some people will claim that is a personal insult, but really it's not. I'm not trying to do any harm to you or make you feel bad, I'm giving you my view of how I think your way of thinking is.
same goes for almost anything. if I call you an a**hole, yes it could be used in a way as a personal insult. but it can also be used in other ways of expression. it all depends on the context of how each thing is said.

my two cents on personal insults.

moscowmail
26-10-2011, 17:32
yeah...


Stupid place for two big balls huh... :)

robertmf
26-10-2011, 17:36
yeah...


Что это those 2 ..umm.. blocks, one that the car is jacked on :question:

moscowmail
26-10-2011, 17:46
let's dig a little deeper into what a personal insult is. I mean If you really think about it anything could be a personal insult.

but anyways for instance you are an educated person and you tell me men are better then women in every aspect.

I will call you ignorant. now some people will claim that is a personal insult, but really it's not. I'm not trying to do any harm to you or make you feel bad, I'm giving you my view of how I think your way of thinking is.
same goes for almost anything. if I call you an a**hole, yes it could be used in a way as a personal insult. but it can also be used in other ways of expression. it all depends on the context of how each thing is said.

my two cents on personal insults.


Yeah but so and I will kick your head in grrr

I understand what you say and I agree, however, I know you, so I wouldn't worry too much, however, the endemic problems with this tye of forum is the messages can be misunderstood, especially if people are writing not in their first language, could you write in Russian and make yourself as understood as most of our Russian friends, I couldn't

and come on Brando, you are a mod, you are meant to be more neutral and certainly not as aggressive old chap, mod status is a b@stard a thankless job especially when one has to calm oneself down and think more, but even as a normal poster we all should step back a little and calm down before posting, I have been far more guilty than this, just saying what I think...

To clarify

Worked in 26 different cities in numerous parts of the World over the last 20 years, always try to immerse myself in the local culture and certainly their customs I respected

I am small and fat as well

L'oiseau bleu
26-10-2011, 17:51
I am small and fat as well

and a bad dancer! do not forget:)

Bogatyr
26-10-2011, 17:56
Who?
Fox News (Conservative/right wing)
MSNBC (Liberal/left wing)
CNN (right about in the middle)

Ownership information is known, there are many sites, see e.g.,

http://www.thinkandask.com/news/mediagiants.html

Billionaires and mega corporations, no surprise there, the darlings of congress critters and other government organizations and officials.

natlee
26-10-2011, 17:56
No offence was meant, I am actually a lesbian, I adore women :) None taken, and :D

BrandonL
26-10-2011, 17:57
Yeah but so and I will kick your head in grrr

I understand what you say and I agree, however, I know you, so I wouldn't worry too much, however, the endemic problems with this tye of forum is the messages can be misunderstood, especially if people are writing not in their first language, could you write in Russian and make yourself as understood as most of our Russian friends, I couldn't

and come on Brando, you are a mod, you are meant to be more neutral and certainly not as aggressive old chap, mod status is a b@stard a thankless job especially when one has to calm oneself down and think more, but even as a normal poster we all should step back a little and calm down before posting, I have been far more guilty than this, just saying what I think...

To clarify

Worked in 26 different cities in numerous parts of the World over the last 20 years, always try to immerse myself in the local culture and certainly their customs I respected

I am small and fat as well

while I do agree with you. ezik knew the style of poster I am. and said it was OK.
have I toned down? quite a bit
but if someone is having a debate, of course I will be aggressive and straight forward. especially if what I think they are posting is ignorant and arrogant.
could I be wrong? of course I'm not always right. take this thread for instance. I had someone talking about. American culture. based on what they are saying I make an opinion if they know what they are talking about it not.
if I think they are blowing smoke up peoples a**es. of course I will be aggressive with my questions. I want my doubts answered.
said person refused to answer the question to prove her given knowledge on said topic. its why I'm aggressive. you have something to say in a debate I want your credentials so to say.

maybe I'm wrong in how I do things maybe not. I am who I am.

BrandonL
26-10-2011, 18:05
also if English isn't your first language don't be so quick to jump to conclusion to what people mean. I write in a native style. take it with a grain of salt.
I use to personally insult people but I don't remember the last time I have.

as my credentials I think maybe Len is the only person that might have traveled as much as me and seen as much of the world as me.
I'm an opinionated person. doesn't mean I'm insulting You
so try not to take everything so personally is my advice

natlee
26-10-2011, 18:09
I am who I am. And waaay nicer in person ;) ;) ;)

moscowmail
26-10-2011, 18:10
while I do agree with you. ezik knew the style of poster I am. and said it was OK.
have I toned down? quite a bit
but if someone is having a debate, of course I will be aggressive and straight forward. especially if what I think they are posting is ignorant and arrogant.
could I be wrong? of course I'm not always right. take this thread for instance. I had someone talking about. American culture. based on what they are saying I make an opinion if they know what they are talking about it not.
if I think they are blowing smoke up peoples a**es. of course I will be aggressive with my questions. I want my doubts answered.
said person refused to answer the question to prove her given knowledge on said topic. its why I'm aggressive. you have something to say in a debate I want your credentials so to say.

maybe I'm wrong in how I do things maybe not. I am who I am.

Ignorant and arrogant in your opinion old chap, I don't think you see my point, thinking that what YOU see and judge to be so, doesn't that make you the same?

I know you, you are intelligent and have a lot of common sense in the real World but here you seem to limit that, i am not sure why, use your noggin matey, take it easy man, right or wrong I think it best to maybe just chill out a little before getting all agro and stuff ... come on, you are better than that, and you know it ..

Here is a pic of me :AngelPray:

natlee
26-10-2011, 18:16
Here is a pic of me :AngelPray: I recall having seen you just the once (?) and the resemblance is er spooky! :D

BrandonL
26-10-2011, 18:22
Ignorant and arrogant in your opinion old chap, I don't think you see my point, thinking that what YOU see and judge to be so, doesn't that make you the same?

I know you, you are intelligent and have a lot of common sense in the real World but here you seem to limit that, i am not sure why, use your noggin matey, take it easy man, right or wrong I think it best to maybe just chill out a little before getting all agro and stuff ... come on, you are better than that, and you know it ..

Here is a pic of me :AngelPray:

the difference Is though if I'm wrong I will admit it and I'm also open minded and love others views and opinions And I'm not afraid to change my way d thinking or my view on something

moscowmail
26-10-2011, 18:23
I recall having seen you just the once (?) and the resemblance is er spooky! :D


I know, remove the wings.. and the halo... put a bit of hair on.. and there ya go...

Oh OK, here is another one of me on a good day


20647

natlee
26-10-2011, 18:35
I know, remove the wings.. and the halo... put a bit of hair on.. and there ya go...

Oh OK, here is another one of me on a good day


20647 Last year's Halloween? ;)

moscowmail
26-10-2011, 18:39
I know, I know. It's all one big conspiracy...

Conspiracy theorists make me giggle.

Ah but we know your giggle is a code for your CIA people and that you are really James Bond, yes 007, people think he was English, hahahaha, fooled you all, just before we filmed the moon landing in Miami

xSnoofovich
26-10-2011, 18:41
I know, I know. It's all one big conspiracy...

Conspiracy theorists make me giggle.

hahahaha - except, there is some truth to it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2051008/Does-super-corporation-run-global-economy.html

Does one 'super-corporation' run the global economy? Study claims it could be terrifyingly unstable

A University of Zurich study 'proves' that a small group of companies - mainly banks - wields huge power over the global economy.

The study is the first to look at all 43,060 transnational corporations and the web of ownership between them - and created a 'map' of 1,318 companies at the heart of the global economy.

The study found that 147 companies formed a 'super entity' within this, controlling 40 per cent of its wealth. All own part or all of one another. Most are banks - the top 20 includes Barclays and Goldman Sachs. But the close connections mean that the network could be vulnerable to collapse.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/19/article-0-0E71A3E200000578-180_634x636.jpg

'In effect, less than one per cent of the companies were able to control 40 per cent of the entire network,' says James Glattfelder, a complex systems theorist at the Swiss Federal Institute in Zurich, who co-wrote the research, to be published in the journal PLoS One.

Some of the assumptions underlying the study have come in for criticism - such as the idea that ownership equates to control. But the Swiss researchers have no axe to grind: they simply applied mathematical models usually used to model natural systems to the world economy, using data from Orbis 2007, a database listing 37 million companies and investors.

The research requires more analysis, but it could be used to look for the weaknesses in the network of global wealth, and prevent future financial disaster.

Looking at 'connectedness' also puts paid to conspiracy theories about the world's wealth - companies connect to highly connected companies for business reasons, rather than world domination.

The 'core' of 147 companies also represents too many interests to wield real political power - but it could act 'as one' to defend common interests.

Sadly for market reformers, resisting change may be one such common interest.

robertmf
26-10-2011, 20:15
hahahaha - except, there is some truth to it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2051008/Does-super-corporation-run-global-economy.html



:whisper: I'll suggest a more accurate analysis will be to look at the interchange of directors sitting on the various banking corporate boards. You'll find the same (in context few) directors are sitting on many boards. :10518:

MickeyTong
26-10-2011, 20:59
I know, I know. It's all one big conspiracy...

Conspiracy theorists make me giggle.


http://i55.tinypic.com/4vhliu.jpg

Bogatyr
27-10-2011, 00:40
I know, I know. It's all one big conspiracy...

Conspiracy theorists make me giggle.

Labels and "-ism"-calling is of course the typical response of the contented sheep (per MickeyT's picture). "Don't bother me, I'm happy" (enough, for now). Have (or pour, as the case may be) another beer. Everything's fine. Those guys are just wackos. Consume, sleep....

For those who wish to lift their heads up from grazing, there's ample documentation that small groups of very rich and influential people (via their corporations) had, and have now, and do in fact yield direct influence over the financial and legal (government) systems.

Just one quick quote from a self-described conspirator over the founding of the fed in the US.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Federal_Reserve_System:


Vanderlip wrote in his 1935 autobiography From Farmboy to Financier :
I was as secretive, indeed I was as furtive as any conspirator. Discovery, we knew, simply must not happen, or else all our time and effort would have been wasted. If it were to be exposed that our particular group had got together and written a banking bill, that bill would have no chance whatever of passage by Congress…I do not feel it is any exaggeration to speak of our secret expedition to Jekyll Island as the occasion of the actual conception of what eventually became the Federal Reserve System.”

ZippyCrx
27-10-2011, 12:51
Nice. Well done for freaking out the staff. =D

I think living in Russia makes you a little more cynical, and definitely lowers your bullshit tolerance levels.

robertmf
28-10-2011, 04:20
I think just the opposite. Since you have to put up with so much bullshit here...

You and Zippy need to man up.

TolkoRaz
28-10-2011, 06:10
When was the last time you were in the US?

LOL! :D Is the US the World? :confused:

The sooner the Americans understand that there is more to the World than just America and what Americans think and try and force upon the rest of us, we might have a chance of living in a lasting peace! :10310:

TolkoRaz
28-10-2011, 06:14
and a bad dancer! do not forget:)

Give MM a break, all men are bad dancers and were born with 2 left feet unless they were born black! :10310:

TolkoRaz
28-10-2011, 06:19
as my credentials I think maybe Len is the only person that might have traveled as much as me and seen as much of the world as me.

LOL! That is the most riculous statement I have read on this site for years! :10310: Especially since 'Willy' left! ;)

Do you keep a record of all the countries all Expat members have visited?

I think not! :book:

robertmf
28-10-2011, 08:58
LOL! :D Is the US the World? :confused:

The sooner the Americans understand that there is more to the World than just America and what Americans think and try and force upon the rest of us, we might have a chance of living in a lasting peace! :10310:

You need a good cheese steak :)

Carl
28-10-2011, 09:21
as my credentials I think maybe Len is the only person that might have traveled as much as me and seen as much of the world as me.


Quite presumptuous me thinks....

robertmf
28-10-2011, 09:26
Quite presumptuous me thinks....

Yeah. I like that word "presumptuous". Sounds better in English than самонадеянный. I've run into it at Church recently with people thinking they are jesus.

Carl
28-10-2011, 09:31
Yeah. I like that word "presumptuous". Sounds better in English than самонадеянный. I've run into it at Church recently with people thinking they are jesus.

You can be sure it wasn't me..at church I mean. I'm atheist... and don't do church)))

xSnoofovich
28-10-2011, 10:56
LOL! :D Is the US the World? :confused:

The sooner the Americans understand that there is more to the World than just America and what Americans think and try and force upon the rest of us, we might have a chance of living in a lasting peace! :10310:

The sooner that you submit to your overlords, the better it will be for all of us and we might even have a chance of living in lasting peace ! :)

TolkoRaz
28-10-2011, 16:15
The sooner that you submit to your overlords, the better it will be for all of us and we might even have a chance of living in lasting peace ! :)

LOL! :D The most frightening thing is that you probably actually believe what you write! :p

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 16:24
The sooner that you submit to your overlords, the better it will be for all of us and we might even have a chance of living in lasting peace ! :)

I was born in 1973 and I was wondering, during all these years, is there one year during which the US was not involved in an armed conflict somewhere around the globe?
I am afraid that your entire economy is already geared up to be in a permanent state of war with some enemy somewhere on the planet.

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 16:43
Which, unlike gas and oil, is as infinite resource.
It will stop when there are no more people around to fight with.

TolkoRaz
28-10-2011, 16:47
I was born in 1973 and I was wondering, during all these years, is there one year during which the US was not involved in an armed conflict somewhere around the globe?
I am afraid that your entire economy is already geared up to be in a permanent state of war with some enemy somewhere on the planet.

Sadly, because the US is made up of such a mixture of nationalities and is a vast country with many of its own internal problems, it has to have a common enemy to keep the country and 'American' people united :10310:

For many years the common enemy was the Soviets and the proxy wars fought around the globe, then it was al Qaeda, then Iraq, Iran and now its the global Islamist Jihad - where will it all end and who will be the next unsuspecting target?

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 16:50
Sadly, because the US is made up of such a mixture of nationalities and is a vast country with many of its own internal problems, it has to have a common enemy to keep the country and 'American' people united :10310:

For many years the common enemy was the Soviets and the proxy wars fought around the globe, then it was al Qaeda, then Iraq, Iran and now its the global Islamist Jihad - where will it all end and who will be the next unsuspecting target?

China ???

TolkoRaz
28-10-2011, 16:53
China is too big and powerful for the US :) China will become the primary Superpower and we shall all soon be eating dog - I am not sure what is worse? ;)

Having Americans barking orders or having to eat barking dogs! ;)

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 16:55
China is too big and powerful for the US :) China will become the primary Superpower and we shall all soon be eating dog - I am not sure what is worse? ;)

Having Americans barking orders or having to eat barking dogs! ;)

I`d go for the Americans. The Chinese don`t like me ever since I decided to jump the line and leave them standing.

xSnoofovich
28-10-2011, 17:18
LOL! :D The most frightening thing is that you probably actually believe what you write! :p

I practice what I preach, brother :devil:

xSnoofovich
28-10-2011, 17:28
I am afraid that your entire economy is already geared up to be in a permanent state of war with some enemy somewhere on the planet.


And how many years of peace were there in the Roman Republic, and then in the Roman Empire?

All may claim to be the third Rome.........

........................but we all know there can only be One !

http://thesocialpath.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099496db8833010536319d86970c-500wi

xSnoofovich
28-10-2011, 17:31
where will it all end and who will be the next unsuspecting target?

yesss..... ?

http://www.nymag.com/daily/intel/30_fbiagent_lgl.jpg

BrandonL
28-10-2011, 18:01
China is too big and powerful for the US :) China will become the primary Superpower

quote of the year!! toooo funny!
without their nuclear arsenal, China could do nothing against America.

ooh they have a billion people! and what? what can a billion people do with no navy? they will be sitting ducks

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 18:06
quote of the year!! toooo funny!
without their nuclear arsenal, China could do nothing against America.

I would not say too big or too powerful, but in contrast to Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan and the likes, China is capable of hitting back.

BrandonL
28-10-2011, 18:10
I would not say too big or too powerful, but in contrast to Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan and the likes, China is capable of hitting back.

with? nuclear weapons? like I said before America rules the world cause of our navy

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 18:17
with? nuclear weapons? like I said before America rules the world cause of our navy

Yes, maybe with nuclear weapons (or do you have a functioning rocket shield already that can shoot down missiles ? Even then, what happens if they shoot all their nuclear missiles at once), maybe with cyber warfare,...
By the way, the Russians are also capable of hitting back. That is the reason that the US can not treat them like they can treat other countries.

xSnoofovich
28-10-2011, 18:26
ooh they have a billion people! and what? what can a billion people do with no navy? they will be sitting ducks

muahahahahaha, er, wait. actually, this question was supposedly addressed in this speech -

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/5-8-8/31055.html

“The War Is Not Far from Us and Is the Midwife of the Chinese Century”

The following is a transcript of a speech believed to have been given by Mr. Chi Haotian, Minster of Defense and vice-chairman of China’s Central Military Commission. Independently verifying the authorship of the speech is not possible. It is worth reading because it is believed to set out the CCP’s strategy for the development of China. The speech argues for the necessity of China using biological warfare to depopulate the United States and prepare it for a future massive Chinese colonization. “The War Is Not Far from Us and Is the Midwife of the Chinese Century” was published on February 15, 2005 on www.peacehall.com and was published on www.boxun.com on April 23, 2005. This speech and a related speech, “The War Is Approaching Us” are analyzed in The Epoch Times original article “The CCP’s Last-ditch Gamble: Biological and Nuclear War.”

The first part describes the superiority of the Chinese, and why Hitler lost WW2.

Then we get to the good stuff-

To resolve the issue of America we must be able to transcend conventions and restrictions. In history, when a country defeated another country or occupied another country, it could not kill all the people in the conquered land, because back then you could not kill people effectively with sabers or long spears, or even with rifles or machine guns. Therefore, it was impossible to gain a stretch of land without keeping the people on that land. However, if we conquered America in this fashion, we would not be able to make many people migrate there.

Only by using special means to “clean up” America will we be able to lead the Chinese people there. This is the only choice left for us. This is not a matter of whether we are willing to do it or not. What kind of special means is there available for us to “clean up” America? Conventional weapons such as fighters, canons, missiles and battleships won’t do; neither will highly destructive weapons such as nuclear weapons. We are not as foolish as to want to perish together with America by using nuclear weapons, despite the fact that we have been exclaiming that we will have the Taiwan issue resolved at whatever cost. Only by using non-destructive weapons that can kill many people will we be able to reserve America for ourselves. There has been rapid development of modern biological technology, and new bio weapons have been invented one after another. Of course we have not been idle; in the past years we have seized the opportunity to master weapons of this kind. We are capable of achieving our purpose of “cleaning up” America all of a sudden. When Comrade Xiaoping was still with us, the Party Central Committee had the perspicacity to make the right decision not to develop aircraft carrier groups and focus instead on developing lethal weapons that can eliminate mass populations of the enemy country.

We must prepare ourselves for two scenarios. If our biological weapons succeed in the surprise attack [on the United States], the Chinese people will be able to keep their losses at a minimum in the fight against the United States. If, however, the attack fails and triggers a nuclear retaliation from the United States, China would perhaps suffer a catastrophe in which more than half of its population would perish. That is why we need to be ready with air defense systems for our big and medium-sized cities. Whatever the case may be, we can only move forward fearlessly for the sake of our Party and state and our nation’s future, regardless of the hardships we have to face and the sacrifices we have to make. The population, even if more than half dies, can be reproduced. But if the Party falls, everything is gone, and forever gone!

In Chinese history, in the replacement of dynasties, the ruthless have always won and the benevolent have always failed.

If we had insisted on the principle that the Chinese should not kill other Chinese, would we have liberated China? As for the several million Chinese living in the United States, this is of course a big issue. Therefore in recent years, we have been conducting research on genetic weapons, i.e. those weapons that do not kill yellow people. But producing a result with this kind of research is extremely difficult. Of the research done on genetic weapons throughout the world, the Israeli’s is the most advanced. Their genetic weapons are designed to target Arabs and protect the Israelis. But even they have not reached the stage of actual deployment. We have cooperated with Israel on some research. Perhaps we can introduce some of the technologies used to protect Israelis and remold these technologies to protect the yellow people. But their technologies are not mature yet, and it is difficult for us to surpass them in a few years. If it has to be five or ten years before some breakthroughs can be achieved in genetic weapons, we cannot afford to wait any longer.

and it goes on and on.

http://en.epochtimes.com/news_images/2005-8-8-chi-head.jpg

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 18:26
Both Pakistan and Iran have a nuclear program.

And you compare those countries to China ?

robertmf
28-10-2011, 18:31
muahahahahaha, er, wait. actually, this question was supposedly addressed in this speech -

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/5-8-8/31055.html

“The War Is Not Far from Us and Is the Midwife of the Chinese Century”


You do realize the Chinese are the most racist peoples on Earth :question: So, this is to be expected.

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 18:35
You do realize the Chinese are the most racist peoples on Earth :question: So, this is to be expected.


Yes, but that is a bit strange. They consider the white race as beautiful because of coloured eyes and hair. Blacks on the other hand, are considered as an inferiour race.
I don`t care. I am stronger, taller and bigger than the average Chinese, so I have no problem to cut the line with a group of Chinese.
On the other hand, the Chinese are not much of a warmongering nation. They did not go on big military campaigns to invade their neighbours.
Next war may well be between Russia and China, about resources in Siberia.

xSnoofovich
28-10-2011, 18:35
You do realize the Chinese are the most racist peoples on Earth :question: So, this is to be expected.


Sure, in fact, he seems to have kicked off the speech with this very thought-

As everybody knows, according to the views propagated by the Western scholars, humanity as a whole originated from one single mother in Africa. Therefore, no race can claim racial superiority. However, according to the research conducted by most Chinese scholars, the Chinese are different from other races on earth. We did not originate in Africa. Instead, we originated independently in the land of China. The Peking Man at Zhoukoudian that we are all familiar with represents a phase of our ancestors’ evolution. “The Project of Searching for the Origins of the Chinese Civilization” currently undertaken in our country is aimed at a more comprehensive and systematic research on the origin, process and development of the ancient Chinese civilization. We used to say, “Chinese civilization has had a history of five thousand years.” But now, many experts engaged in research in varied fields including archeology, ethnic cultures, and regional cultures have reached consensus that the new discoveries such as the Hongshan Culture in the Northeast, the Liangzhu Culture in Zhejiang province, the Jinsha Ruins in Sichuan province, and the Yongzhou Shun Emperor Cultural Site in Human province are all compelling evidence of the existence of China’s early civilizations, and they prove that China’s rice-growing agricultural history alone can be traced back as far as 8,000 to 10,000 years. This refutes the concept of “five thousand years of Chinese civilization.” Therefore, we can assert that we are the product of cultural roots of more than a million years, civilization and progress of more than ten thousand years, an ancient nation of five thousand years, and a single Chinese entity of two thousand years. This is the Chinese nation that calls itself, “descendents of Yan and Huang,” the Chinese nation that we are so proud of. Hitler’s Germany had once bragged that the German race was the most superior race on Earth, but the fact is, our nation is far superior to the Germans.

xSnoofovich
28-10-2011, 18:37
Y
I don`t care. I am stronger, taller and bigger than the average Chinese, so I have no problem to cut the line with a group of Chinese.

Cut in front of me please....

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/news/080602/jackie_chan240.jpg

TolkoRaz
28-10-2011, 18:40
quote of the year!! toooo funny!
without their nuclear arsenal, China could do nothing against America.

ooh they have a billion people! and what? what can a billion people do with no navy? they will be sitting ducks

They don't need to invade the US to become the primary Superpower :10310:

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 18:41
Cut in front of me please....

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/news/080602/jackie_chan240.jpg

Well, since you ask politely, don`t mind if I do, sir !

robertmf
28-10-2011, 18:59
Yes, but that is a bit strange. They consider the white race as beautiful because of coloured eyes and hair. Blacks on the other hand, are considered as an inferiour race.

The 'whites' are only for a few female concubines like Natlee and Le French and OlgaT :respect: Others are ghost kwailo.



I don`t care. I am stronger, taller and bigger than the average Chinese, so I have no problem to cut the line with a group of Chinese.

:7534: Doesn't help much when you get rushed by 300,000,000,000,000,000 little buggers. RE: movie Pork Chop Hill

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 19:07
The 'whites' are only for a few female concubines like Natlee and Le French and OlgaT :respect: Others are ghost kwailo.



:7534: Doesn't help much when you get rushed by 300,000,000,000,000,000 little buggers. RE: movie Pork Chop Hill


Population of NATO countries is about 800 million. China is 1,300 million ? That is not a massive difference, and NATO is likely to win the conflict, but it will be at a huge cost in money and lives.

robertmf
28-10-2011, 19:18
... but it will be at a huge cost in money and lives.

Politically the "huge cost" is a no-go in the West, which mostly has indoor bathrooms. I'm not volunteering to be drafted for a cannon fodder campaign.

:elf: Nice sig. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler's_identity

OT - Do you also like Escher (http://www.google.com/search?q=Escher+art&hl=en&sa=G&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=JciqTonoMoXd0QGC26THDw&ved=0CDkQsAQ&biw=1150&bih=858&sei=%20LMiqTqefL4bi0QGwlbmIDw) :question:

robertmf
28-10-2011, 19:26
They don't need to invade the US to become the primary Superpower :10310:

Точно. I'm not economist, but I think China holds much USA treasury notes. Maybe they are buying USA :jawdrop: for use as rice paddy :question:

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 19:28
Politically the "huge cost" is a no-go in the West, which mostly has indoor bathrooms. I'm not volunteering to be drafted for a cannon fodder campaign.

:elf: Nice sig. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler's_identity

OT - Do you also like Escher (http://www.google.com/search?q=Escher+art&hl=en&sa=G&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=JciqTonoMoXd0QGC26THDw&ved=0CDkQsAQ&biw=1150&bih=858&sei=%20LMiqTqefL4bi0QGwlbmIDw) :question:





I like Escher, but before Euler I stand in complete adoration. I chose the Euler identity because it combines the most remarking numbers in one equation : the unity 1 among the real axis, the unity i among the imaginary axis. Then we also have this remarkable number 0 (that the Romans did hot have), and two transcedental real numbers pi and e. Besides Euler spend a very big part of his life in Russia in Saint-Petersburg.

moscowmail
28-10-2011, 19:38
Vietnam.... Need I say more?

You know, it riles me a tad saying, 'we are the best country in the World..' sheeit, why were the Brits more successful in Iraq? we may have less number bu far but the numbers we have don't shout Gung ho, pray for war, sheeit lost my gun, gimme another bigger one,

The Brits are probably one the finest urban soldiers because we have had a lot of practice in N. Ireland for so many years

I served with some soldiers from the US, and apart from the rangers I think, didn't have chance to work with the Seals but hear they are pretty good

The US Army is far better supplied and kitted out, but sadly their lack of care for the equipment and their reliance on technology does leave them slightly lower standard than they could be, don't get me wrong, I met some great guys who were awesome soldiers, they too agreed that on the whole, the Army (US) could be way better

It is clear that the best special forces in the World are the SAS, probably Mosad comes a very close 2nd, the South African Special forces (BOSS) are pretty damned good as well, the US does have some excellent special forces as well

Now the Chinese, no idea, but the sheer numbers should be a cause for concern

There is good and bad in ALL countries guys, there is bad stuff going on in the British Army and some times shameful

I am not a patriot per se, and i am only saying from my experience, 9 years in the British Army and served in a few places with all of the above, so again, ONLY from experience, not from what I read or have been told

I actually admire the American Spirit and support their ideals (or at least the 'public' ones) regarding democracy etc, I am a simple guy and hope that what is done is done for the right reason, I am, however, not naive and understand most is for power and money

I hate the politicians, UK, and often do not understand why they make it so bloody hard to run a country

robertmf
28-10-2011, 19:47
I like Escher, but before Euler I stand in complete adoration. I chose the Euler identity because it combines the most remarking numbers in one equation : the unity 1 among the real axis, the unity i among the imaginary axis. Then we also have this remarkable number 0 (that the Romans did hot have), and two transcedental real numbers pi and e. Besides Euler[-] spend [/-] spent a very big part of his life in Russia in Saint-Petersburg.


This 0 idea is difficult concept; sqrt i is worse :confused: LOL

It's surprising the Roman engineers - for all they gave civilization - didn't create the concept of "nothing". Maybe they were too tangible in thought.

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 19:57
This 0 idea is difficult concept; sqrt i is worse :confused: LOL

It's surprising the Roman engineers - for all they gave civilization - didn't create the concept of "nothing". Maybe they were too tangible in thought.


In Roman numbers there actually was no need for a 0. 0, apart from meaning nothing, has the important function as a distance holder, like for instance in 2002, 202 which are both very different from 22. Romans would write MMII, or CCII, or XXII. With Roman numbers calculations are also possible (additions and substractions and some multiplications, but divisions are harder).
Luckily now we use the Arab numbers and they allow for much more flexibility.

robertmf
28-10-2011, 20:13
Vietnam.... Need I say more?

It is clear that the best special forces in the World are the SAS, probably Mosad comes a very close 2nd, the South African Special forces (BOSS) are pretty damned good as well, the US does have some excellent special forces as well


Is the Russian Spetznatz still on the books :question:

FatAndy
28-10-2011, 20:15
Gentlemen, keep topic, please.

robertmf
28-10-2011, 20:23
Gentlemen, keep topic, please.

:10475: I forget "the topic" Entropy is natural.

moscowmail
28-10-2011, 20:28
Is the Russian Spetznatz still on the books :question:




Good lads and bloody hard..

Back to the topic, yup, changed me in many ways, I hope some of them are good, changed my life actually, met and have 2 great kids with my soul mate :)

FatAndy
28-10-2011, 20:40
Yes. But human beings can try to create negative entropy.
;)
How your living in Russia has changed you, comrade? Pls report, party meeting listens you with a great attention... ;)



:10475: I forget "the topic" Entropy is natural.

SV1973a
28-10-2011, 20:42
Yes. But human beings can try to create negative entropy.
;)
How your living in Russia has changed you, comrade? Pls report, party meeting listens you with a great attention... ;)

Andy, aren`t you a chemist ?
Then you should know that living in Russia has increased his entropy !

FatAndy
28-10-2011, 20:45
No, I'm former biophysicist.
It is obligatory only with a closed system. Russia is open now (sometimes too open), so with energy uptake we can create negative one ;)


Andy, aren`t you a chemist ?
Then you should know that living in Russia has increased his entropy !

TolkoRaz
28-10-2011, 23:08
Vietnam.... Need I say more?

You know, it riles me a tad saying, 'we are the best country in the World..' sheeit, why were the Brits more successful in Iraq? we may have less number bu far but the numbers we have don't shout Gung ho, pray for war, sheeit lost my gun, gimme another bigger one,

The Brits are probably one the finest urban soldiers because we have had a lot of practice in N. Ireland for so many years

I served with some soldiers from the US, and apart from the rangers I think, didn't have chance to work with the Seals but hear they are pretty good

The US Army is far better supplied and kitted out, but sadly their lack of care for the equipment and their reliance on technology does leave them slightly lower standard than they could be, don't get me wrong, I met some great guys who were awesome soldiers, they too agreed that on the whole, the Army (US) could be way better

It is clear that the best special forces in the World are the SAS, probably Mosad comes a very close 2nd, the South African Special forces (BOSS) are pretty damned good as well, the US does have some excellent special forces as well

Now the Chinese, no idea, but the sheer numbers should be a cause for concern

There is good and bad in ALL countries guys, there is bad stuff going on in the British Army and some times shameful

I am not a patriot per se, and i am only saying from my experience, 9 years in the British Army and served in a few places with all of the above, so again, ONLY from experience, not from what I read or have been told

I actually admire the American Spirit and support their ideals (or at least the 'public' ones) regarding democracy etc, I am a simple guy and hope that what is done is done for the right reason, I am, however, not naive and understand most is for power and money

I hate the politicians, UK, and often do not understand why they make it so bloody hard to run a country

Mossad and BOSS are civilian Intelligence & Security Services, not military special forces.

As for the SEAL Teams, there is only one Team (SEAL Team 6) which can be judged on the same level as the British SAS or SBS. The majority of the US SEAL teams are no better than the British Parachute Regiment or Royal Marines (Commandos) which are classed as 'elite fighting forces', but not Special Purpose Forces. :book:

US Special Forces in total stand at approximately 50,000 men and women, most elements can be joined straight from school - British Special Forces now number less than 5% of the US number and can only be entered after rigorous selection and after at least 5 years military service / operations; I think that says it all! :book:

Rexy
30-10-2011, 20:23
Back to the story about pregnant women.

Since I have started very friendly to ask the young men sitting while my pregnant friend is standing to let her have a seat, i must admit that none of them refused to do so. Though some act as if i ask them for money =)

So....I just wanted to thank drtnsnw for giving a good piece of advice and beg him to pardon me for saying that he doesn't let pregnant women have a seat. :11030:

Victoria 55
30-10-2011, 22:32
I have been living in Russia for more than 3 years now. Slowly but surely, this experience has made me somewhat `tougher`.

Example : Last week I was in Istanbul in a 5* business hotel in the center, with a group of Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian customers.
One of them needed to get a stamp from the hotel on the `kommandirovichnoe`.
She did not speak English, so she asked me to go to the reception of the hotel and explain that she needed stamps on this document.
The guy at the reception told me that he would not do this, because he only was allowed to put stamps on their invoices.
I explained the necessity, but still refused. He told me to go and see the manager, so I did.
Also to her, I explained the situation, but she refused just the same.
At that point, I saw that no solution would be found, so I decided to solve the problem myself.
I firmly walked to the reception, took the stamp that was on the desk, and stamped the document myself, before the baffled staff had any time to react.
Of course, when they realised what had happened, all hell broke loose, but still, I already had got what I wanted.

Before my life in Russia, I would have not even thought of this solution, but now I got this attitude `don`t mess with me !`

Any similar experiences from other expats.
this is example " true Russian mentality".....not " a tunnel one"(((

SV1973a
30-10-2011, 22:33
this is example " true Russian mentality".....not " a tunnel one"(((

Why?

Victoria 55
30-10-2011, 22:54
Why?
Russians can break the rules,we live in another way. Life abroad is strictly rulled.

Victoria 55
30-10-2011, 23:30
Russians who can afford to break the rules do so...
Money are not the goal of life. Do I understand right the word "afford"?

Victoria 55
30-10-2011, 23:42
Alot of Russians would disagree with that statement.
If you want only money you never get it. I think so.Everyone has its own point of view.

robertmf
31-10-2011, 00:54
Russians can break the rules,we live in another way. Life abroad is strictly rulled.

:respect: ..umm.. not precise. More that in capitalism you have to get up in the morning to get work to get rent to get medical payments to get ...

You can break rules in "the West", :nono: but you may not have $$$ then.

Понял :question:

Victoria 55
31-10-2011, 01:07
:respect: ..umm.. not precise. More that in capitalism you have to get up in the morning to get work to get rent to get medical payments to get ...

You can break rules in "the West", :nono: but you may not have $$$ then.

Понял :question:


Aga.3 kind of taxes that you should pay in the USA are much better than 13% VAT in Russia. And hire a specialist who counts 3 kind of taxes is super? And if he mistakes you will be charged as you don't pay taxes. I don't want to argue where to live better. Everyone has its own opinion. The grass is greener in other side.

robertmf
31-10-2011, 01:20
Aga.3 kind of taxes that you should pay in the USA are much better than 13% VAT in Russia. And hire a specialist who counts 3 kind of taxes is super? And if he mistakes you will be charged as you don't pay taxes. I don't want to argue where to live better. Everyone has its own opinion.


The grass is greener [-]in[/-] on the other side (of the fence).

"Close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes"


"Horseshoes" is an American lawn game. I've not seen horse shoes or frisbee in Russia.

Horseshoes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Victoria 55
31-10-2011, 01:27
The grass is greener [-]in[/-] on the other side (of the fence).

"Close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes"


"Horseshoes" is an American lawn game. I've not seen horse shoes or frisbee in Russia.

Horseshoes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoes)
Thanks. I'm lazy to look for idioma(

martpark
31-10-2011, 02:11
Russians can break the rules,we live in another way. Life abroad is strictly rulled.

Russians who break the rules move to London. Really the number of rules doesn't matter as there are many more in Russia than can be enforced. The arbitrary nature of law enforcement creates chaos everywhere.

sylvia24
31-10-2011, 13:24
russia has changed me lots.i had my 1st boyfriend here,went to club,stayed up late so many tyms but it has also taught me how to be independent n also hw 2 relate wit different ppl frm different places.

mds45
31-10-2011, 14:30
I have been living in Russia for more than 3 years now. Slowly but surely, this experience has made me somewhat `tougher`.

Example : Last week I was in Istanbul in a 5* business hotel in the center, with a group of Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian customers.
One of them needed to get a stamp from the hotel on the `kommandirovichnoe`.
She did not speak English, so she asked me to go to the reception of the hotel and explain that she needed stamps on this document.
The guy at the reception told me that he would not do this, because he only was allowed to put stamps on their invoices.
I explained the necessity, but still refused. He told me to go and see the manager, so I did.
Also to her, I explained the situation, but she refused just the same.
At that point, I saw that no solution would be found, so I decided to solve the problem myself.
I firmly walked to the reception, took the stamp that was on the desk, and stamped the document myself, before the baffled staff had any time to react.
Of course, when they realised what had happened, all hell broke loose, but still, I already had got what I wanted.

Before my life in Russia, I would have not even thought of this solution, but now I got this attitude `don`t mess with me !`

Any similar experiences from other expats.

I am the opposite to you, living in Russia has made me more English, rather than fall in line I try to uphold the standards and not sink into a sea of selfishness. Living here makes it to easy to justify unacceptable behaviour, I will not fall into that trap, you my friend are lost.

mds45
31-10-2011, 14:47
You are pretty damn English...

True, more so over the last few months in fact I only drink tea now :)

mds45
31-10-2011, 16:00
Coming for a cuppa tonight? Sarah06 has a surprise for us...

I'm supposed to have dinner with clients but I am trying to get out of it,but if sarah's surprise is Brandons bill from Friday then no I'm busy !!!! Just kidding Sarah )))

mds45
31-10-2011, 16:09
She said it's a "Halloween surprise".

Woo sounds exciting ! I will make every effort to be there !

Sarah06
31-10-2011, 16:12
haha his bill was paid.... everybody else's though.... That's the question you'd have to see Pete about ;)

And I'm 90% sure Pete won't share the surprise.... if that gives you any hints :)
Worst part of it.... no mustaches in the mail yet :(

mds45
31-10-2011, 18:07
haha his bill was paid.... everybody else's though.... That's the question you'd have to see Pete about ;)

And I'm 90% sure Pete won't share the surprise.... if that gives you any hints :)
Worst part of it.... no mustaches in the mail yet :(

Everybody else's ((((((((((((((((((((((( Yikes
If it's food there's no way Pete will share !!
In pursuit of hirsute still :( Those pesky mustaches !

I can't escape dinner so looks like I'm going to be a no show ((

moscowmail
31-10-2011, 19:27
I am the opposite to you, living in Russia has made me more English, rather than fall in line I try to uphold the standards and not sink into a sea of selfishness. Living here makes it to easy to justify unacceptable behaviour, I will not fall into that trap, you my friend are lost.

I admire your tolerance and tenacity, can I ask, how long have you lived here?

Working and living in Russia, you have to accept the culture, adapt so to speak, as in any country, of course trying to live by the standard of where you were born and bred is admirable, but somewhat frustrating no?

mds45
01-11-2011, 09:58
I admire your tolerance and tenacity, can I ask, how long have you lived here?

Working and living in Russia, you have to accept the culture, adapt so to speak, as in any country, of course trying to live by the standard of where you were born and bred is admirable, but somewhat frustrating no?

Accepting the culture has nothing to do with becoming it.

However to answer your question, I've worked in Russia coming in and out since 2005, but lived here since Feb 2011. Last few years I lived in the Middle East, Dubai can match Moscow for many things and teach some things too, I didn't alter my character, I accepted the diferences and worked around them, and even exploited some, indeed I found I had a certain advantage to not blending in.

From your question it can also be deduced that you have changed, do you have a weak character?

moscowmail
01-11-2011, 10:22
Accepting the culture has nothing to do with becoming it.

However to answer your question, I've worked in Russia coming in and out since 2005, but lived here since Feb 2011. Last few years I lived in the Middle East, Dubai can match Moscow for many things and teach some things too, I didn't alter my character, I accepted the diferences and worked around them, and even exploited some, indeed I found I had a certain advantage to not blending in.

From your question it can also be deduced that you have changed, do you have a weak character?


Hahaha, I hope not, being a serial expat for over 20 years if anything strengthens ones character..

I often try and improve this place in small ways, i,e, not accepting shoddy service without at least some form of creative comments to the management, saying thank you to other drivers who let me out, letting other drivers out, even with the almost shocked expressions from others, I too have standards that I try keep, sometimes rather frustrating though

I run a few companies, and I provide the best international standards I can, construction mainly, but also a bar, this is harder to keep the standards consistent, but we try

Tripping in I think is the best way to work in a country, as you did from 2005 to Feb this year, I wished I could have done it that way, I have been here since October '99 and find it increasingly more frustrating

I also spent sometime in the Middle East, Dubia, Saudi mainly

Anyway, thanks for your answer

L'oiseau bleu
01-11-2011, 10:31
I always thought that adapting, taking the best, letting things go through you and making conclusions, moving in your life is the sign of wisdom and self development:)
smart flower bends when it is windy. stupid - tries to stand straight:)

mds45
01-11-2011, 12:49
I always thought that adapting, taking the best, letting things go through you and making conclusions, moving in your life is the sign of wisdom and self development:)
smart flower bends when it is windy. stupid - tries to stand straight:)

Couldn't agree more, but what was your point?

L'oiseau bleu
01-11-2011, 14:39
Couldn't agree more, but what was your point?

that changing yourself does not mean weak charater - I thought it was quite silly remark of yours

L'oiseau bleu
01-11-2011, 15:03
Only God knew how I wanted to talk to someone else
ok
no fate

xSnoofovich
01-11-2011, 15:25
that changing yourself does not mean weak charater -

no, it means constantly evolving, taking what is best, filtering out the worst, and always improving.

L'oiseau bleu
01-11-2011, 15:27
no, it means constantly evolving, taking what is best, filtering out the worst, and always improving.

absolutely:)
i d also add that questioning and doubting yourself is necessary part of washing away what u do not need inside and giving space to smth new

xSnoofovich
01-11-2011, 15:33
......

mds45
01-11-2011, 15:34
that changing yourself does not mean weak charater - I thought it was quite silly remark of yours

Thanks for thinking I made a silly remark, I suspect that says more about you than me.
The point is changing yourself is good, becoming better is good, becoming worse is not. By taking on some of the characteristics of a Russian in the OP he has taken on some less than desirable characteristics, by your logic this is a good thing .
I disagree.

L'oiseau bleu
01-11-2011, 15:39
Thanks for thinking I made a silly remark, I suspect that says more about you than me.
The point is changing yourself is good, becoming better is good, becoming worse is not. By taking on some of the characteristics of a Russian in the OP he has taken on some less than desirable characteristics, by your logic this is a good thing .
I disagree.

no what I meant is that one has to filter and take the best
I do hope u are no so one sided that do not see any single thing you could learn here
I can't believe there are so many expats who stuck in Russian spitting and garbage can

L'oiseau bleu
01-11-2011, 15:47
[QUOTE=L'oiseau bleu;915475]no what I meant is that one has to filter and take the best
I do hope u are no so one sided that do not see any single thing you could learn here
I can't believe there are so many expats who stuck in Russian spitting and garbage can[/QUOTE

Actually, the spitting and the trash are frequent subjects of discussion amongst expats. Most of us find it disgusting. It shows a complete lack of regard for your fellow human being.

I try to avoid such creatures:) God bless you are not the only type of expats :)
and frankly, from your posts and words I wouldn't say you yourself have much respect to your fellow human being, Brother.

L'oiseau bleu
01-11-2011, 16:15
[quote=L'oiseau bleu;915480]

I have plenty of respect for my fellow human being. I just have a very low tolerance for bullshit.

unfortunately bullshit is necessary part of any human being:)

mds45
01-11-2011, 16:19
[quote=drtnsnw;915507]

unfortunately bullshit is necessary part of any human being:)

This is starting to get very funny ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

SV1973a
01-11-2011, 16:24
So we should all change to the Russian standards?
We should all feel free to spit anywhere we want, throw trash on the ground, steal as much as humanly possible, act like we are better and more important than everyone else, treat women like shit, become racist, and, most importantly, carry a "murse"?

Nah. I think I'll stick with my "barbaric Western ways" and continue to smile at people, open doors for others, throw my trash in a garbage can, and, most importantly for me, provide great service to my customers at the bar.

What is a `murse` ?

xSnoofovich
01-11-2011, 16:26
What is a `murse` ?

http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=8264&IBLOCK_ID=35

All these years, I've been wondering to myself, "What's wrong with Russians? What's with their strange Byzantine ways? And what the **** is the deal with that murse thing?"

"Murse?" you ask. The stubby little word may sound unfamiliar, but you know what I'm talking about. You've seen everyone from burly former sportsmen to atomic physicists totting murses. Murse: it's the ubiquitous male purse.

In the West, there's the mistaken belief that only chicks should carry purses. What foreigner hasn't had a laugh at the expense of some guy who looks like he eats his Cheerios with vodka instead of milk, clutching under his arm such a gay little accessory as a male purse?

Then I felt one in my own hands. And I can say honestly that, to quote Fet, "A murse cannot be understood with the mind, but only with the armpit." ...........................................

L'oiseau bleu
01-11-2011, 16:27
[quote=L'oiseau bleu;915509]

Not really. You feel the need to bullshit your way through life? You like to constantly deceive others about the real you?
That's what bullshit is.

Pity.

Oh yes, dear. I am that bad bitch.
:11629:

SV1973a
01-11-2011, 16:31
Man purse.

Hey, that is a cool thing! And really useful.
I am going to tell my wife to get my one for New Year.
You can keep your passport, your wallet, your car documents and mobile phone in it.

L'oiseau bleu
01-11-2011, 16:39
Hey, that is a cool thing! And really useful.
I am going to tell my wife to get my one for New Year.
You can keep your passport, your wallet, your car documents and mobile phone in it.

i hope u know we call them pidoraska:)

SV1973a
01-11-2011, 16:41
i hope u know we call them pidoraska:)

No I didn`t know that...
Probably would not wear it anyway.

L'oiseau bleu
01-11-2011, 16:47
No I didn`t know that...
Probably would not wear it anyway.

they became popular in 90th when everything was in cash (and still is) and they were good to bring piles of paper money to pay a bill in restaurant:) that time we did not have mobiles but had pagers (f.. how to write that one)
anyway it was always funny to see big man with big belly bringing small pidoraska as a girl:)

L'oiseau bleu
01-11-2011, 16:57
We finally agree on something...

нет!
:)

SV1973a
01-11-2011, 17:17
I am the opposite to you, living in Russia has made me more English, rather than fall in line I try to uphold the standards and not sink into a sea of selfishness. Living here makes it to easy to justify unacceptable behaviour, I will not fall into that trap, you my friend are lost.

And how exactly is the upholding of English standards in this country benefitting you ?
If survival of the fittest has any truth (and I believe it has), then it is probably you that is lost.

But I really appreciate that you answered my initial question.

mds45
01-11-2011, 17:34
And how exactly is the upholding of English standards in this country benefitting you ?
If survival of the fittest has any truth (and I believe it has), then it is probably you that is lost.

But I really appreciate that you answered my initial question.

My pleasure to answer your original post, it is one of the more intersting / intelligent ones and I thank you for that

Not sure how you connect survival of the fittest with morals and descency.
Not usual bedfellows but hey ho takes all sorts.

Victoria 55
02-11-2011, 00:40
The grass is greener [-]in[/-] on the other side (of the fence).

"Close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes"


"Horseshoes" is an American lawn game. I've not seen horse shoes or frisbee in Russia.

Horseshoes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoes)
No,Russian people play frisbee.Maybe the game isn't so popular,but we have it.