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ezik
07-09-2007, 01:51
The verdict on Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.

Election campaigns are going to start next quarter. He is not going to go for a 3rd term, he promised. Let's look back at Vladimir Vladimirovich before the campaigns hit the streets full force:
- What did he accomplish?
- What did he fail to accomplish?
- Is Russia better off after Putin and why?
- How about his successor? Clone or not? Who?
- Does Russia want another Putin?
- What is his biggest quality?
- What has been his biggest flaw?
- Is he actually gonna go?

Let's see if our early verdicts coincide with the campaigns that are going to be launched!

Korotky Gennady
07-09-2007, 02:10
I like Putin becoz he was better than Elsin. Elsin was like a plague... And politics is art of possible... he did what he could.

Judge
07-09-2007, 02:58
Putin will go down well in the history books,he brought Russia back onto the world stage,still not like it was before but getting closer.Gas and oil prices helped Putin out, he used this new weapon well.Russians can now walk with their heads held high and many of them do when they go abroad.

I reckon Putin will still be around in one way or another when he leaves The Kremlin,Russia needs him and the man who will be hand picked by Putin will ask for his help from time to time.

Not everything is well here, loads still to be done,like poverty and corruption,if Putin had more time on his hands ,he would try and sort these things out.

What is his biggest quality?
I asked my wife this question, and she said ''it's his KGB background''.When Putin speaks he doesn't often read from a piece of paper,he looks calm and well read,what he says he understands,numbers, names everything.. A great leader in my eyes,just what Russia needed after good old Boris.

SovietTwins
07-09-2007, 07:05
Putin was KGB agent in USSR time.
He is former KGB agent. All politic power in our land - now, in the hands of former KGB agents.
Boris... Boris Elsin - is enemy №1 of our mortherland! The destruction effect for our econmy from Boris Elsin ~in x7 times more, then the destruction effect from Hitler.
Now - is little better.
All of you must to know, that the good life and big workpay - only in Moscow.
In other regions - we have little workpay, and bad economy situation.
After, the Putin's reforms - we have more problems. Problems with law production. problem with buisness, very many kind of problems.
Russia - it's not only the Moscow.
The Moscow - is law for all Russia, but the Moscow's congressments - don't want to see our problems...
:-(
In Chechnya war - soldiers said one little "pogovorka":
The enemy №3 - is enemy in front from you.
The enemy №2 - is our aviation strikes.
The enemy №1 - sitting in the Kremlin.

lew
07-09-2007, 09:43
What do we value in life?

I was taught some basic things in my society in my Country.

One of them is freedom of speech. Not always a good press but it's free and that enables me to critically view my government.
Putin killed that here and it's a cornerstone of democracy and free society.

Putin is now credited with restoring Russia to the World stage.
Let's be honest, it was oil prices and any leader here would have looked good.
But if your an insider, or talk to people in the know here, they will tell you corruption in this government is worse than even in Yeltsins days.

Putin has restored the KGB to run the Country. It is quickly becoming a police state.

Putin has cancelled Governors elections. He has forced leading businessmen who oppose him to leave the Country. He has renationalized industry and tried to run the economy by state control.

The only thing Russians are free to do still is spend their money and travel abroad. Let's pray they one day hunger for a real democracy and sweep these guys and Putins legacy out the door.

ezik
07-09-2007, 11:28
I think that indeed a leader like Putin was needed, if you look at his two predecessors:
- Gorbachev: unleashed a society that before was managed by rules & control. Didn't really know what he started. Enter anarchy
- Yeltsin: chose to sit down and wait, letting things settle. Enter plutocracy
- Putin: Found that control was lost and decided that it was best to resort to proven methods. Enter oligarchy or even monarchy

I think that oil & gas prices have played a crucial role. The increase meant money-for-nothing, as the state always owned the infrastructure.

Muting the press was part of the plan to kick out the plutocrats and regain control over the country. I mean, if you want to inform your people about the progress of the economic and other reforms, glasnost is not always the most effective way. After all, which message looks better:
- reforms are progressing, but we're still in quite a bit of a mess
- we're doing great! You are doing great! We'll make it together!

The press has mainly been used to boost patriottism, certainly outside the big cities, where access to other media (internet) isn't a given. I think SovietTwins is right in pointing out that the provinces are worse off than the big cities. Still exactly in the province, the support for Putin has been big.

Putin has been lucky and smart. Economy is growing at a healthy 7%, and many people are confident, spending money and going to Egypt. And those people who aren't, are hungry, but not for democracy.

Korotky Gennady
07-09-2007, 13:20
....



lew.. There was never free press in Russia. And for me as a citizen there is no difference who own it... goverment or the plutocrats like Berezovsky and Gusinsky that ezik wrote about.


And democracy is the thing for the rich. The poor are hungry for not democracy but for money and food.


And the KGB rule is not worse than the plutocrats rule.

SovietTwins
07-09-2007, 16:45
Some phylosophy question.
WHAT IS FREEDOM?
Freedom - is mirage, smoke, fiction! (C) M.A.Bulgakov Dog's Heart.
:-)
No one have freedom.
The Putin - can't to restore KGB. The NKVD, KGB - was a REAL organisation of goverment control. But they do a REAL work. Yes. Now - our land is police state. :-((
Going to be the police state. :-(
Putin - can't to do a REAL politics. The congress - is repress all good politics... :-(
You said, that peoples live more comfortable now??? :-)
No! If we are will saw in our past, in Soviet Union, we can see, that all of our peoples lived more comfortable...

TGP
08-09-2007, 01:49
What do we value in life?

I was taught some basic things in my society in my Country.

One of them is freedom of speech. Not always a good press but it's free and that enables me to critically view my government.
Putin killed that here and it's a cornerstone of democracy and free society.

Putin is now credited with restoring Russia to the World stage.
Let's be honest, it was oil prices and any leader here would have looked good.
But if your an insider, or talk to people in the know here, they will tell you corruption in this government is worse than even in Yeltsins days.

Putin has restored the KGB to run the Country. It is quickly becoming a police state.

Putin has cancelled Governors elections. He has forced leading businessmen who oppose him to leave the Country. He has renationalized industry and tried to run the economy by state control.

The only thing Russians are free to do still is spend their money and travel abroad. Let's pray they one day hunger for a real democracy and sweep these guys and Putins legacy out the door.

Lew,
has it ever come to your mind that Russians may not want your type of democracy? Think about this.

Free press: there is no free press as such. All press is dependent on someone, be it the government or not. To say that there is no criticism of Putin, the government, the laws in the Russian media is to say wrong things. Actually, I read so many negative things about the situation in Russia, that I already got tired of it.

In Yeltsin's days the most disgusting, unfair and shameful thing happened, that is "vaucherisatsia". Every citizen got vouchers, which supposedly gave them an access to the wealth of the country, but someone got a voucher which actually cost nothing, but others got hold of factories, plants, oil wells etc. If some of these businessmen were kicked out of the country, it's only for its benefit. Nationalization of some fields of industry is not bad at all.

"Putin has restored KGB to run the country". What do you mean?! What has been restored? FSB, Federal Security Service? Organizations like this exist in every country (FBI, CIA...). How does it run the country? Persecutes the citizens and throws them in jail? Intercepts private phone talks? Interrogates the people? Forbids them doing something? Are you sure you are talking about Russia? Which police state? As an ordinary Russian citizen, I assure you that no one cares a... about what I am doing, in which way I earn money, or, say, why I receive money from abroad and what for, etc. Is it what you call "to restore KGB"? Lew, do you have any idea of what KGB was like in the days of old? Russians do...

Despite all shortcomings, mistakes, injustice which I see in my country, I like Putin just because the West does not like him, as I don't know a single thing which the West ever did for the benefit of Russia. I dont mean ordinary people, but the politics, of course.

Packman
08-09-2007, 02:25
I like Putin just because the West does not like him,


Your shallowness on this point has never been more clear:thumbsup:

Korotky Gennady
08-09-2007, 13:50
I don't know a single thing which the West ever did for the benefit of Russia. I dont mean ordinary people, but the politics, of course.





Unfortunetely it's almost true. They like to teach us very much, but they never do something real in order to help us.

Korotky Gennady
08-09-2007, 13:58
Now - our land is police state. :-((


Putin - can't to do a REAL politics. The congress - is repress all good politics... :-(


in Soviet Union, we can see, that all of our peoples lived more comfortable...



What people were those who lived more comfortable ?

And why did you write it that Russia is a police state ?

What is it that " the police state" hinders you to do ? ;)

Korotky Gennady
08-09-2007, 14:01
Your shallowness on this point has never been more clear:thumbsup:

Your deepness has never been more vague... ;)

SovietTwins
08-09-2007, 18:31
What people were those who lived more comfortable ?

And why did you write it that Russia is a police state ?

What is it that " the police state" hinders you to do ? ;)


What peoples lived more cofortable?
Emmm... My parents! Parents of my friends. Peoples in villages.
Much peoples of SovietUnion.

Russia - going to be a police state.
:-(
No freedom of your word. :-(
When i am said in police, that i have my rights, i I have knocked on bud by bat...
What was the reason for my arest? I just said few words about morden Putin and congress politic...

What police state hinders me to do?
Police state - hinders me to have normal life. They all - are criminal! The cops - is main drugs-trader in our towns. They are don't give me to do my buisness. (Shadow repressing of all buisness and high corruption of main organs).
The police state - must to find spy's but not to repress me, or another my friends.

TGP
08-09-2007, 20:10
Your deepness has never been more vague... ;)

Did you ever see any deepness in his statements, apart from the animal hatred?

TGP
08-09-2007, 20:35
Unfortunetely it's almost true. They like to teach us very much, but they never do something real in order to help us.

Teaching is a good thing, if it's done by professionals, or by someone who has at least a clue of what he is treaching, let alone respect to the "pupils". But honestly, no matter how hard I am trying to learn something from "the teachers", I fail to hear anything really useful or just new. All what they say is known to me, and experienced by me. "Do it like we do it", that's all they are able to say, but it's beyond them that it's not possible owing to many reasons. Sometimes I wonder how one can be so dumb not to understand such primitive things. "We, in America, has this and that, you, in Russia, don't have this and that". Sure, we don't. We are too different in many respects. To begin with, America, as a state, originated in an absolutely different way, and was 'set up", if I may say so, for different purposes. It differs not only from Russia, but from all Eurpean countries, too. Its history was different. The conditions of its development was different. Its palce in the world history is different. Finally, their aims are different.

And they claim they are teaching us something? It's not teaching, it's lecturing, or, better to say, pathetic blethering about the "disobedient pupil".

TGP
08-09-2007, 22:21
What peoples lived more cofortable?
Emmm... My parents! Parents of my friends. Peoples in villages.
Much peoples of SovietUnion.

Russia - going to be a police state.
:-(
No freedom of your word. :-(
When i am said in police, that i have my rights, i I have knocked on bud by bat...
What was the reason for my arest? I just said few words about morden Putin and congress politic...

What police state hinders me to do?
Police state - hinders me to have normal life. They all - are criminal! The cops - is main drugs-trader in our towns. They are don't give me to do my buisness. (Shadow repressing of all buisness and high corruption of main organs).
The police state - must to find spy's but not to repress me, or another my friends.

SovietTwins, I perfetly understand your mood and attitude towards the Russian reality of nowadays. They often say that only older generations long for the USSR time. As your profile says, you are a young man, but you also like the USSR more than modern Russia, though you didn't live at that time. Good example of why many Russians are unhappy with democracy. That's what the Westerners can't understand.

But SovietTwins, what you are longing for is "a strong hand" which would rule Russia. Back to the USSR, when KGB kept the country under control? (BTW, did your parents tell you about that real control?). There is a contradiction in your words: on one hand, you say that Russia is a police state (which is a repressive type of a state), and at the same time you say that life in the USSR was better, though it also was a repressive type of a state due to the KGB control. You say you was arrested when you said a few words about Putin and the congress politics. Anyway, yuo are sitting now in front of a computer, writing about it, and taking part in a discussion with people from different countries. If you ever said someting like that in the USSR time, your parents wouldn't ever see you any longer.

I am far from justifying the cops who arrested you, but I think that what you call " repression of KGB", or " the police country" in modern Russia is the most perveted understanding of freedom of actions and the feeling of power which so many local authorities have. This is that very perveted type of democracy which developed in Russia.

Corruption sits in our heads, it is not implanted artificially from somewhere. Again, this is a feeling of impunity which is mixed up with freedom. "If I am free, and there is no strict control from the above, I can do whatever I want" - this is the logics of local authorities, cops, etc. It's a very complicated question, but no president, KGB, or police, let alone pieces of advice from the West, will hlep us to solve it, unless we ourselves change our attitude towards our life.

BTW, don't be so sure that absolutely everyone who lives in Moscow is happy and successful. Believe me, it is not so. There is a lot of sh*t here, and in a larger volume than in the provinces.

Guest
09-09-2007, 13:22
The only thing Russians are free to do still is spend their money and travel abroad.

And criticize their President, as you are doing :) Freedom of speech is higher in Russian than in many self-called "democracies".



Let's pray they one day hunger for a real democracy and sweep these guys and Putins legacy out the door.


Can you explain what is "real democracy", with concrete examples of what there is not in Russia, and what there should be in Russia?

Guest
09-09-2007, 13:33
SovietTwins,

You are right and wrong.

Right because it is true that Moscow takes the biggest part of "progress", despite some other cities are really improving their way of life now, I often go to N.Novgorod, to various cities in Sibir, to Murmansk and Arhangelsk, etc. Life there is generally better than 10 years ago.
But it is true that for some people, it is worse.

We suffered of a LONG time of communism. We can see good points in communism, maybe, but look at the result at least on the economical point of view. Look at how the country is looking like when you compare it to countries who went through another way!

It isn't in 10 years that we will recover all this! Things are being done, little by little, and it is true that always, everywhere, in such situations some people are in loss. This is the same in every country. Look today, Russia is going higher on the economical level, as most of the countries are going down. We have now the opportunity in Russia to make something good and different, it will take some time, but I am sure the result will be better than everywhere else, for most of Russians.

Ghostly Presence
10-09-2007, 13:25
Just to lighten up the discussion, here is a joke for you guys:

Putin wakes up in the middle of the night hungry and goes to the refrigerator. When he opens the door, the jello sitting in the fridge begins to shake from the motion. Putin looks at the jello and says: ďDonít shake Ė Iíve come to get the cheese.Ē ;)

I hope my translation of this Russian joke didnít ruin it! ))

SovietTwins
10-09-2007, 14:13
Dear guest.
We know all errors of communism. But, we know the pluses of the communism!
Let's look in economy of USSR. Just look. ~90% of our Industry\heavy industry - is Soviet Technology. Our army - are armed SOVIET weapon. Some of the our control systems - maked by using SOVIET components.
My parrents - every year can to travel on USSR territiory by Airplane.
Now - only on train.
Do you know, how much the workpay in our region now? And how much it was in 1980?
No... You don't know this.
Drug addiction, stuped television, mass banditry and corruption - is come AFTER communism. Corruption - is EXTREMAL high level. :-( But you don't want to see that.
I live in small town. And i see the corruption results.
30% of our peoples - live for devil of poverty. In communism - we haven't so big percent of the poverties! It's doesn't matter, it can't to be comparabled.
Yes! I don't song odes to communism, what was in USSR. But i know, i saw, that in USSR peoples was more frendly. And they saw confidence in next day. They can use FREE medecine, FREE education. And they know, theat everyone can find Job.
Now - we don't see confidence in next day. :-(((
Of course - you are right too! In some things. I am - party communist. :-)
Everyone must to know, what is REALY RUSSIA.
Russia - is not the Moscow...

Ghostly Presence
10-09-2007, 15:05
Dear guest.
We know all errors of communism. But, we know the pluses of the communism!
Let's look in economy of USSR. Just look. ~90% of our Industry\heavy industry - is Soviet Technology. Our army - are armed SOVIET weapon. Some of the our control systems - maked by using SOVIET components.
My parrents - every year can to travel on USSR territiory by Airplane.
Now - only on train.
Do you know, how much the workpay in our region now? And how much it was in 1980?
No... You don't know this.
Drug addiction, stuped television, mass banditry and corruption - is come AFTER communism. Corruption - is EXTREMAL high level. :-( But you don't want to see that.
I live in small town. And i see the corruption results.
30% of our peoples - live for devil of poverty. In communism - we haven't so big percent of the poverties! It's doesn't matter, it can't to be comparabled.
Yes! I don't song odes to communism, what was in USSR. But i know, i saw, that in USSR peoples was more frendly. And they saw confidence in next day. They can use FREE medecine, FREE education. And they know, theat everyone can find Job.
Now - we don't see confidence in next day. :-(((
Of course - you are right too! In some things. I am - party communist. :-)
Everyone must to know, what is REALY RUSSIA.
Russia - is not the Moscow...

You are very young and very naÔve. You did not experience communism first-hand, given your tender age. I, for one, had a taste of the soviet past. I donít want any of it any more. If you want to have confidence in your future Ė learn, advance your education, sharpen your skills and you will find a spot under the Sun either in this country or some place else. Your education and your health are the only guarantees you will ever have in this life. Granted, of course, that you have the freedom to use them as you please Ė something one never could have during the Soviet days.

SovietTwins
10-09-2007, 18:15
I guess - it will be holy war.
You - not the Ethalone! You - are not shown by expression of the general opinion.
Yep. I am - young. But i know the history of my motherland. I want to not I one veins well i want happeness - for all.
And, i don't want to leave my motherland. My motherland - is MY MOTHERLAND. But not the spot under the sun for some peoples.
I know, that my words - is radicalistic. But I have so much tired from words - that "ALL in USSR was bad".
I don't see reason to convince you in my opinion. And i don't see reason in your position about USSR.
But, your words about "If you want to have confidence in your future – learn, advance your education, sharpen your skills and you will find a spot under the Sun either in this country or some place else. Your education and your health are the only guarantees you will ever have in this life." - it's 100% - true.
I am not one, who will be cry for Soviet days and have drink vodka. I am learning. Learning very much, to be a real GOOD citizen for my motherland. To change something... In our country...

I not shall disput... Don't like holy wars. :-)
This reminds the dispute: Respublicans VS Democrats in USA.
It will be only the long and useless chat.

Guest
10-09-2007, 19:59
All in USSR was not bad, you are right. But I also remember Brezhnev period, where there was *nothing* in shops, even with the nice restriction tickets... So all in USSR was not good too, right?

But anyway the USSR is over and we have to do with. Putin made Russia AND Russian people in a strong position that NEVER we would expect before him! All Russians of course does not receive the same part of benefits, and there is a big work to do in this domain.

Twins, you are against Putin, but do you just imagine what would become a country headed by Kasyanov, for example? Or by any other "slave of the Occident"? On the other side, going back to a communist regime is just an heresy, as we Russians now FELL what is freedom! Don't forget that in the USSR, just criticizing the regime as you are doing here would allow you to spend a few years in a nice colony! Do you want this time back?

Do not compare Republicans/Democrats with Russia today! Republicans and Democrats in the USA have the SAME ideas, the same program, for 90%. In Russia, there will be a choice between continuing the way Putin opened, going back to communism, or becoming the 40th (or I don't know which one) number of the EU.

I already know that most Russians want the first choice, and I hope that those who will make another way will finally accept the opinion of the majority, and bring their competences to make Russia going forward together.

TGP
10-09-2007, 21:02
I guess - it will be holy war.
You - not the Ethalone! You - are not shown by expression of the general opinion.
Yep. I am - young. But i know the history of my motherland. I want to not I one veins well i want happeness - for all.
And, i don't want to leave my motherland. My motherland - is MY MOTHERLAND. But not the spot under the sun for some peoples.
I know, that my words - is radicalistic. But I have so much tired from words - that "ALL in USSR was bad".
I don't see reason to convince you in my opinion. And i don't see reason in your position about USSR.
But, your words about "If you want to have confidence in your future Ė learn, advance your education, sharpen your skills and you will find a spot under the Sun either in this country or some place else. Your education and your health are the only guarantees you will ever have in this life." - it's 100% - true.
I am not one, who will be cry for Soviet days and have drink vodka. I am learning. Learning very much, to be a real GOOD citizen for my motherland. To change something... In our country...

I not shall disput... Don't like holy wars. :-)
This reminds the dispute: Respublicans VS Democrats in USA.
It will be only the long and useless chat.


SovietTwins, it's a good post, because you stand for your point of view in a polite manner, and because you understand that much depends on you personally. If you love your motherland, you will try to do your best to find your place here to improve the life in your country. I agree with you in that part, that not all was bad in the USSR, though the subject of my, as you say, "crying" differs from yours. What disappoints and worries me most of all is the change of values in life, the most quick transition from the USSR to a quite new and different country. The history of modern Russia is not yet 20 years old, but look, what a gigantic way we have come! It's most strenious and hard for many people, and they still can't adapt themselves to the new life. Unfortunatelly, the new reality brought a lot of trash to our life (worship of money, drugs, prostitution, blind imitation of the Western life etc.), but all depends only on us. Only we ourselves can learn to distuinguish the bad from the good, what to take from our past, from the USSR, and what to forget forever.
Only don't mix up everything :) Try to learn and understand what is the reason, and what it the consequence.

And it's good that you joined this site! It's very useful for advancing your English.

WilliamFTH
10-09-2007, 21:29
Before a meal is serve, there will be mess in the kitchen and finally some one will clean it up, if not today then it will be tomorrow, if it is not you then it will be some one else.

Question is, are you the one that serve or the one that enjoying the meal? Either way you will not be 100% satisfy.

Clean32
10-09-2007, 22:18
Very interesting and enlightening reading, 3 Russians all from different times (age) experiences and locations. All seeing the same problems and basically agreeing.

Regardless of what you think of me, based on my other posts. I do however come from a small Democratic country, located in the middle of nowhere.
My country has always been (for the purposes of this conversation) a democracy, until 1980 it was a socialist democracy; the policy was Cradle to the grave. Free education free medical, And a job for everyone. One of the highest levels of education and standards of living in the world 1970 4 & 3rd respectively. After 60 years of this it all stopped, crashed, my country was bankrupt. Then we had 10 years of rebuilding, high unemployment, government selling every thing it could, it was a mess. My father, who worked as a linesman for telecom for 38 years, was made redundant, found himself unemployable. In a society where the man works and the wife stays at home. My parents divorced, divorcee was uncommon until then. And my father could not adjust and basically drunk himself to death.
I am now of an age where all this happened in my working life, now I am able to look back as see and understand why the pain was necessary, and it was!

In my View Putin is not so bad, he stopped the pendulum from swinging to far, BUT the pendulum can not swing back either, he has and needs a balancing act, a forever changing balancing act.
Democracy is just a word nothing more. If you were to ask an American what is democracy is, you would get a very different answer to how I would view it. The American brand of democracy is there brand it works in America to the Americans satisfaction, and I may add there brand will only work in America. Russia needs American brand of democracy like a hole in the head. But democracy is the only way forward. So Russia must fined its own balance its own form/ brand of democracy and not just copy from America.

As to the comments about the west not helping Russia. Sorry many countries did. When 2 former Russian presidents ago, had to decide either to keep communism and have soviet citz starve to death, or finish communism and go begging. they did the correct thing. Russia had to much Russian blood on her hands as it is. But back to the help! My country, even today you see butter and other products from my country in Russian shops. Even today a large percentage of Russian butter has my countries Dairy solids, this is nothing new it has been like this for over 40 years. When Russia was at its lowest my country was paid in Lada cars, do you think you can sell a lada car in a country where everyone drives a Japanese car ?? In the 80s? After the cars there was nothing, my country didnít get paid simple. My country Dairy and meat, Australia Meat and ore. Canada grain etc. so donít be so insulting and blindly ignorant when you say no one helps Russia because thatís just crap.

The best thing I have read was written by TGP, Russians need to change there attitudes, I see this happening, I read about this happening, like the Governor who has band common Russian excuses for not having work done.
Even today I drive around I can see inefficacyís. Can I walk up to a director and say Mate you know this job, if you did it this way you could save 20% or 50% or 5%. No I cant why because I am not Russian. Therefore I see Russians who can see the light and are changing, but I also see Russians who a blinded by ego.

Korotky Gennady
11-09-2007, 00:36
Just to lighten up the discussion, here is a joke for you guys:

Putin wakes up in the middle of the night hungry and goes to the refrigerator. When he opens the door, the jello sitting in the fridge begins to shake from the motion. Putin looks at the jello and says: ďDonít shake Ė Iíve come to get the cheese.Ē ;)

I hope my translation of this Russian joke didnít ruin it! ))


I can't say that it's very funny. Or it lost all its humor in process of translation... :goblin:

Korotky Gennady
11-09-2007, 00:40
Before a meal is serve, there will be mess in the kitchen and finally some one will clean it up, if not today then it will be tomorrow, if it is not you then it will be some one else.

Question is, are you the one that serve or the one that enjoying the meal? Either way you will not be 100% satisfy.

This one is too deep for my shallow mind. :shhhhhh:


Understand it in order i can get it. :goblin: It's like oriental "coan" no one can understand...

Korotky Gennady
11-09-2007, 01:41
And my father could not adjust and basically drunk himself to death.







Not dirty32, your post is okey but what was it your farther drunk yourself to death with ?

My aunt, which past away already, used vodka to do it. :)

ezik
11-09-2007, 01:45
I'm surprised with Clean32 actually posting something serious, well-argumented and without any "LOL" things.

William's post basically tells that it depends on whether you are getting your piece of economic growth or not, if you're going to make any judgement on Russia's 'progress'. If you're part of the growth, you have nothing to complain about. If you're not, times are tough.

Clean32
11-09-2007, 03:57
I'm surprised with Clean32 actually posting something serious, well-argumented and without any "LOL" things..

Your surprised, how do you think I feel?
No its not often we get a serious few posts on a serious topic, where I feel its worth actually writing some thing worth while. Added to that the crap posts from the I donít know what country I am from and the village idiot. Why post will it be accepted or slaged off ( how usually)


William's post basically tells that it depends on whether you are getting your piece of economic growth or not, if you're going to make any judgement on Russia's 'progress'. If you're part of the growth, you have nothing to complain about. If you're not, times are tough.

even simpler, you are eather eating or washing the dishes

Ghostly Presence
11-09-2007, 13:14
Clean32,

Sorry to hear about what happened to your Dad.

Korotky Gennady
11-09-2007, 13:39
[COLOR=black]




even simpler, you are eather eating or washing the dishes


I see. Now I get it. ;)


I am so stupid though. ;)

Or I am too tired at my work. Don't know...


I'll reread Wiliam one more time then.

Yes ! I understand it. I must either eat with William or have the honor to wash dishes after him. :)

Korotky Gennady
11-09-2007, 13:46
I'm surprised with Clean32 actually posting something serious, well-argumented and without any "LOL" things.

.

ezik, i think that people of that forum have tought Not Dirty32 good manners though. ;)