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rosymh
21-09-2011, 13:29
Hello everyone. This might seem a really odd question, but I was wondering about the old ladies you see begging here. I was told last time I was in Moscow, about 3 years ago, that most of them are "owned" by the mafia, so it's not a good idea to give them anything - however my source wasn't particularly reputable. Is there any truth in this at all? Also, I was told that the state doesn't really support the elderly, which is why so many of the beggars are old women. Basically what I'm trying to find out is - is it a good idea or a bad idea to give them money, and if it's a bad idea, why? They're clearly not going to spend the money on drugs, which is the main reason I don't give people money at home - if I were to give them anything, it would be a hot drink or a sandwich. Is that socially acceptable here? Thanks everyone!

mds45
21-09-2011, 13:41
Good questions! I'd also like to know. I'm guessing it's a judgemnt call but would like some pointers to avoid the con artists.

Perlovka
21-09-2011, 14:48
Hi! I think most beggars staying in the central metro stations are "professionals', and I ve heard that they "earn' quite a lot of money. But if you feel something like compasion why not to share a small sum of money that you will not regret later.

xSnoofovich
21-09-2011, 15:04
But if you feel something like compasion why not to share a small sum of money that you will not regret later.

This !

For me, if I want to give someone money, I do. I don't really think about or care about all of the possible stories that I have heard. I just want to help that person.

And it doesn't really matter to me what they spend that money on. Back in the US, I would rather give someone some food instead of cash, but here, I just give and forget.

But ! Never give a person your phone number or contacts, even if they say they will repay you.

I had a Russian friend (girl) of mine that saw a woman standing by a church. The older woman gave my friend a sad sob story about having her purse get stolen, and not being able to get back to her city, and could she help? She would pay her back as soon as she could. My friend thought ok, why not (she is a very kind person), and gave the the woman her phone number. The woman called her the next day, said she bought the ticket but lost it, or something like this (another sad sob story) and could she have another xxxx. My friend said ok. But when the woman called the third time.... my friend realized that she had been had.

Inola
21-09-2011, 15:47
This !

For me, if I want to give someone money, I do. I don't really think about or care about all of the possible stories that I have heard. I just want to help that person.

And it doesn't really matter to me what they spend that money on. Back in the US, I would rather give someone some food instead of cash, but here, I just give and forget.

Same for me. I give if I feel like giving without thinking if this particular person is worthy of my generous gesture or not:)

A couple of days ago I gave an old lady in the metro 300 rubles I had found in the metro on the floor the day before. And don't care if she is a "professional" or not.

After I visited Moscow Cathedral of Christ the Savior for the first time I gave some money to an old lady begging near the gates. The guy who accompanied me (and claimed to be a fervent believer) said something like "goog girl, this money will be returned a hundredfold to you"... Huh?
Indeed, it's the hope of being admitted to the Paradise that incited me. The strong believer did not give anything - was very kind of him not to divert the All Mighty's attention from my good behavior:D

Perlovka
21-09-2011, 16:02
In Russian cultural tradition it is e very good if you give alms to the poors, you are considered to be a good Christian. but in some countries beggars are considered to be spongers, lazy people who do not want really to work. If I am not mistaken it is more common for protestants.

mrzuzzo
21-09-2011, 16:06
I don't give them anything, ever.

The only ones who I help are children. They're the only ones who are not guilty of any wrongdoing. BTW, I am going to orphanage on the 8th (and possibly another one in Tver' on the 9th)..

Inola
21-09-2011, 16:25
In Russian cultural tradition it is e very good if you give alms to the poors,
[...]
but in some countries beggars are considered to be spongers, lazy people who do not want really to work. If I am not mistaken it is more common for protestants

I'm not a specialist in the sphere, but think sharing and giving should be good in any religion and country...


you are considered to be a good Christian..

Considered by whom? God, yourself, other Christians?

AndreyS
21-09-2011, 16:26
But if you feel something like compasion why not to share a small sum of money that you will not regret later.
Agree about feeling compassion. I think we should give them some reasonable amount of money so that a person you feel for could buy some food and go home.

Inola
21-09-2011, 16:30
BTW, I am going to orphanage on the 8th (and possibly another one in Tver' on the 9th)..

If you are not against others joining you, suggest you started a separate thread about this. I don't know my agenda for that WE yet, but will be glad to contribute, as some other people here for sure.

Perlovka
21-09-2011, 16:30
I'm not a specialist in the sphere, but think sharing and giving should be good in any religion and country...

No, in some cultures when you give something to someone who does not want to work it means that you support their lazyness


Considered by whom? God, yourself, other Christians?

Considered by society you live in

Inola
21-09-2011, 16:35
Considered by society you live in

How would the society know? Who cares about what the society thinks? If I give but am not a Christian, wouldn't it be too confusing for the society? :D

Perlovka
21-09-2011, 16:44
How would the society know? Who cares about what the society thinks? If I give but am not a Christian, wouldn't it be too confusing for the society? :D

Mostly people do care what society or community or friends, colleagues., family think about them...

Perlovka
21-09-2011, 16:45
How would the society know? Who cares about what the society thinks? If I give but am not a Christian, wouldn't it be too confusing for the society? :D

Obviously I did not mean that
why it would be confusing? strange logic you have

mrzuzzo
21-09-2011, 16:49
Agree about feeling compassion. I think we should give them some reasonable amount of money so that a person you feel for could buy some food and go home.

Disagree. What exactly did they do to deserve compassion from me?


If you are not against others joining you, suggest you started a separate thread about this. I don't know my agenda for that WE yet, but will be glad to contribute, as some other people here for sure.

I'll create a thread once all details are finalized.

Inola
21-09-2011, 16:49
Obviously I did not mean that
why it would be confusing? strange logic you have

In you post #6 you wrote: "In Russian cultural tradition it is e very good if you give alms to the poors, you are considered to be a good Christian."
Hence my "strange logic" ;)

AndreyS
21-09-2011, 16:55
Disagree. What exactly did they do to deserve compassion from me?




They didn't to anything for you of course. It's up to you to decide whether or not give them money. It's just a feeling from within, not a deal or smth.

Perlovka
21-09-2011, 17:20
[QUOTE=mrzuzzo;898933]Disagree. What exactly did they do to deserve compassion from me?



I'll create a thread once all details are finalized.[/QUOTE

People may or may not deserve compassion...
sympathy or compassion it is a feeling...
you just feel it you can not control it even when you realize that people do not deserve it

BabyFirefly
21-09-2011, 17:45
I don't give them anything, ever.

The only ones who I help are children. They're the only ones who are not guilty of any wrongdoing. BTW, I am going to orphanage on the 8th (and possibly another one in Tver' on the 9th)..

Please do let us know more details about this. I'd love to join.

I've never given them money. Where I'm originally from this type of scam is extremely common and they make great amounts of money... much more than minimum wage.

Robbie..GSI
21-09-2011, 20:21
I was about to give some money to old lady one day but was stopped by my girlfriend. (russian) She said its a business and they are quite well off.
She was telling me that they pay for the right to beg for money.
In her own words she told me to make up a sign and stand at a set of lights beging for money, and soon I would be approched by two well dressed young men asking to be paided.
If this is true I dont know.

rosymh
21-09-2011, 20:32
Same as Inola - also potentially interested in coming with to orphanage, but don't know yet what my work commitments will be that weekend. Will keep an eye out for the thread.

bydand
25-09-2011, 12:28
In Kashin I have never seen an old lady beggar, in over three years. I have seen enough old alcoholic men begging.

Don't think it is right to beg in front of a church, the beggars should be in the church. The church we go to, we donate food and money. The Batushka and his mother feed and tend to the poor.

Korotky Gennady
25-09-2011, 21:42
if I were to give them anything, it would be a hot drink or a sandwich.

Why not a pint of beer ?

And what kind of sandwich usually ? Big Mac ? :confused: