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RedRose
04-09-2007, 21:28
Does anyone know if you can have dual citizenship, Russian & German? I have a friend that wants to get it, but doesn't know if that means you have to give up the Russian citizenship.

Guest
04-09-2007, 23:16
I don't know for Germany, but Russia in theory does not alow the dual citizenship. Until now it is very theoric, but the law is going to change and will enforce this legal impossibility to have another citizenship than theRussian one.

Judge
05-09-2007, 00:20
Russia allows some EU countries,even Canadians can have both.

I know someone who has Greek and Russian citizenship,he's Russian and got Greek citizenship. I asked about my wife at a Russian Embassy if she can hold another passport( an EU country),the guy said,sure no problem.

Best you check first,most people don't tell the Russian authorities that they have dual citizenship.

Guest
05-09-2007, 01:54
In theory, people who ask RF citizenship can not keep their "original" citizenship. It is clearly explained when new applicants fill the paperwork.

Now, if a Russian citizen receives another citizenship (the inverse case, so), I don't know what tells the RF law.

For sure many most people who have a dual citizenship do not tell this to the RF authorities, as it can be not legal. Oh, that is theory... I know a few Duma or Senate Members who have 2 or 3 citizenships... Despite it is illegal :(

moscowlondon
13-09-2007, 12:31
Guest's comments are just plain wrong. The law clearly states that dual citizenship IS permitted. A Russian citizen does not forfeit their Russian citizenship because they are naturalized in another country. I am a Russian and was naturalized a British citizen. I have both my citizenships and passports. This is not a problem. If you have any questions, contact the Russian Embassy in your country.

You can ONLY lose your Russian citizenship if you renounce it. The law is very clear on this.

moscowlondon
13-09-2007, 12:34
Guest wrote: "In theory, people who ask RF citizenship can not keep their "original" citizenship. It is clearly explained when new applicants fill the paperwork"

This is also not strictly the case. Russian law requires people naturalized as Russian citizenship to swear sole loyalty to Russia. But the only way you can renounce your other citizenship is by renouncing it with the authorities of your country. This is certainly the case in the UK, Canada, USA, Australia etc.

When you become a US citizen, the oath you take says that you renounce all other allegiances, citizenships etc. However, in at least the case of the UK and Canada, they ignore this.

CONTACT YOUR OWN EMBASSY AND VERIFY THE SITUATION. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT RUSSIAN LAW SAYS ON THIS MATTER...IT IS UP TO YOUR ORIGINAL COUNTRY.

moscowlondon
13-09-2007, 12:35
I don't know for Germany, but Russia in theory does not alow the dual citizenship. Until now it is very theoric, but the law is going to change and will enforce this legal impossibility to have another citizenship than theRussian one.

This law changed LONG ago. Check the new Russian Nationality Act. It specifically states you can have dual nationality.

Guest
13-09-2007, 12:45
Guest's comments are just plain wrong. The law clearly states that dual citizenship IS permitted. A Russian citizen does not forfeit their Russian citizenship because they are naturalized in another country. I am a Russian and was naturalized a British citizen. I have both my citizenships and passports. This is not a problem. If you have any questions, contact the Russian Embassy in your country.

You can ONLY lose your Russian citizenship if you renounce it. The law is very clear on this.


What I wrote is when a NON Russian applies for the RF citizenship, he is asked to "resign" from his former citizenship. And lawmakers are working on a new article of the law about this, that will ENFORCE this.

Guest
13-09-2007, 12:49
CONTACT YOUR OWN EMBASSY AND VERIFY THE SITUATION. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT RUSSIAN LAW SAYS ON THIS MATTER...IT IS UP TO YOUR ORIGINAL COUNTRY.


If you become a Russian citizen, Russian law matters a bit...

A Duma member recently wanted a law that would force applicants (To RF citizenship) to supply a document, signed from the applicant AND from his government/embassy authorities, saying that he will renounce to his former citizenship as soon as he gets the RF one. Until now, the law is still a project and will probably not be submitted exactly so, but something is being prepared on this topic.

Guest
13-09-2007, 12:51
Guest's comments are just plain wrong. The law clearly states that dual citizenship IS permitted. A Russian citizen does not forfeit their Russian citizenship because they are naturalized in another country. I am a Russian and was naturalized a British citizen. I have both my citizenships and passports. This is not a problem. If you have any questions, contact the Russian Embassy in your country.

You can ONLY lose your Russian citizenship if you renounce it. The law is very clear on this.


Sorry I wasn't writing about this, but about the opposite case, when a NON Russian applies to RF citizenship. In the other way, I don't know anything, so you are very probably right :)

Andy B
13-09-2007, 12:51
Both of my Kids have both British and Russian nationalities...

We saught advice from both Embassies (they were born in Malaysia, if that makes a difference) before hand, and they both agreed that it would not be a problem to be both Russian and British.

So now they have a Russian and British passport.

moscowlondon
13-09-2007, 14:28
Duma members ask many things, it does not mean that they will become law. If you check with the Foreign Ministry and the Ministry of Justice they will tell you that NO changes to the citizenship law are being considered. And the process of amending the law is long and difficult. The Presidential Administration does not support any change to the law and has made this clear. In today's Russia, this means the proposed amendment is dead.

Also, the same Duma member you mention wants the law changes so that Russian women who marry foreigners are stripped of their Russian citizenship. That amendment didn't get past the first reading.

You should also note that under British law, if you are forced to renounce your British nationality to require a foreign citizenship, you can later apply to have your British citizenship restored. Many countries have similar provisions.

moscowlondon
13-09-2007, 14:31
Guest, you wrote: "when a NON Russian applies for the RF citizenship, he is asked to "resign" from his former citizenship. And lawmakers are working on a new article of the law about this, that will ENFORCE this".

On what do you base this statement? What proposed law? What is its number? There is no mention of this in the government Gazette or the government's legislative programme. The Ministry of Justice has not introduced any such legislation, nor has the Foreign Ministry.

You may want to reflect on the fact that several thousand laws were proposed by Duma members last year. NOT A SINGLE LAW WAS PASSED that was not backed, or introduced by, the Kremlin/United Russia.

moscowlondon
13-09-2007, 14:44
Regarding dual citizenship, Federal Law No. 62 is very clear that Russian citizens may hold dual nationality and that acquiring another nationality does not affect your Russian citizenship. The exact English text is as follows:

Article 6. Dual Citizenship

1. A citizen of the Russian Federation who also has another citizenship shall be deemed by the Russian Federation only as a Russian Federation citizen, except for the cases stipulated by an international treaty of the Russian Federation or a federal law.

2. The acquisition by a Russian Federation citizen of another citizenship shall not cause termination of Russian Federation citizenship.


You should also note the provisions of Article 4(4) of the same law:

Article 4. The Principles of Russian Federation Citizenship and the Rules Regulating Issues of Russian Federation Citizenship


4. A citizen of the Russian Federation shall not be deprived of Russian Federation citizenship or of the right to change it.


This is one area where the law is pretty clear.

MaltSokol
13-09-2007, 21:48
It may be a silly question. Are the terms 'citizenship' and 'nationality' exchangeable in this context?

Dana21
24-09-2007, 02:18
Guest's comments are just plain wrong. The law clearly states that dual citizenship IS permitted. A Russian citizen does not forfeit their Russian citizenship because they are naturalized in another country. I am a Russian and was naturalized a British citizen. I have both my citizenships and passports. This is not a problem. If you have any questions, contact the Russian Embassy in your country.

You can ONLY lose your Russian citizenship if you renounce it. The law is very clear on this.

I also have dual citizenship, British and Russian. However, I previously used to have a stamp in my Russian passport which stated I had leave to remain in the UK, so I could travel to Russia on my Russian passport and come back on it also. However, the law in Britain has now changed, and they no longer put anything into your other passport to say you have a right of residence in the UK. The guy at Immigration basically told us to travel using both passports.

Does anyone know how it is therefore possible to travel to Russia? Will I have to get a visa and travel on my British passport? Surely its not possible to travel on 2 passports (travel to Russia on the Russian one and come back using the British one)?

moscowlondon
07-10-2007, 12:11
What I do is exit and enter Russia on a Russian passport, and exit and enter Britain on a British passport. Just show the immigration official in Moscow both your passports. He or she will let you pass without a UK visa. This is very common and the border guards and check-in agents are very familiar with these arrangements.

nicklcool
10-10-2007, 11:39
Reading all these comments about dual nationality, I noticed how strongly a Western point of view, based on our experiences in rule-of-law societies, influences our approach this and many other law issues here in Russia.

Now, I fully admit that I know very little about the laws in Russia regarding dual citizenship, specifically the requirement to renounce one's current citizenship in order to become Russian. Thus it was very interesting to see the text of actual Russian law on this topic-one may retain their original citizenship in obtaining a Russian one! But, even in light of this specific and clear law, I cannot dismiss the anecdotal evidence of others here, that they had to renounce their citizenship to gain Russian citizenship.

For Westerners, knowing a law exists is enough-this is how it's written, so that's how it exists in practice! Many of us are puzzled to learn, though, that for a Russian the written law is less useful in practice than the three squares of toilet paper given to us by the port-o-john attendant.

So, to the original poster, know that your journey will likely be difficult, and in no way consistent. Getting Russian citizenship without renouncing the German one may very well depend on whether the OVIR official got laid the night before, or how many rubles you've got in your pocket. With such a weak legal system in Russia (if not an absolute lack of it), predicting how such situations will play out is nearly impossible, with the result that some obtain a 2nd citizenship without renouncing the Russian one, while others (like my fiancee,who is from Uzbekistan), must renounce citizenship and send their passports back home.


On a note related to rule of law/lawlessness that is driving me mad, with such entrenched corruption among the militsia, how can anyone feel safe on the streets?? Specifically, how can I not worry that an officer will stop my fiancee, ask her for her papers, then take her off and rape her with no consequence? Is it really that bad here? 'cause I hear stories,but I want to pass them off as anecdotal and not the general rule.

cool, thanks for reading.