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Uncle Pasha
28-07-2011, 13:38
Last week I called the Toronto Dominion bank to request a replacement for my expired card. To make things easier I tried giving them my Moscow address for sending the new card. The operator asked if this was my permanent address. I said yes, which in effect it is. Her response was that since I don't live in Canada the bank will not re-issue me my card. Then I wrote TD's Client Service only to get a confirmation that they will not deal with me. Pointing to the fact that I'm their client in good standing since '81 and I'm their credit card holder since mid-80s didn't seem to help.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? Is there a simple solution to this nonsense of a situation?

The irony is that the bank has acted up as I was gearing up for a trip to Canada. Makes me wonder..

mrzuzzo
28-07-2011, 13:41
Of course they won't ship your card to Russia... I've had similar issues with CIBC.

Ship it to your friend and have him or her FedEx it over.

Uncle Pasha
28-07-2011, 13:50
No, they would not accept a Canadian address AFTER I said yes to the question if I live in Russia permanently and after I responded with "don't know" to the question when I plan to be back in Canada.

mrzuzzo
28-07-2011, 14:07
No, they would not accept a Canadian address AFTER I said yes to the question if I live in Russia permanently and after I responded with "don't know" to the question when I plan to be back in Canada.

:suspect: Why the hell would you tell them that you live here permanently?

No offense, but that wasn't very smart of you. You opened a bank account as a Canadian resident, so they can decline you service if you cease to be said resident. It's simple common sense really..

DavidB
28-07-2011, 14:31
That situation is usual in any country. Banks don't like to issue credit to non-residents. If you have no assets in Canada, it's exponentially more difficult for the bank to collect in case of delinquency.

If you don't specifically need a credit card (i.e. if you can live with a debit card instead), you shouldn't have a problem getting a card. I've been able to get a Visa Classic debit card with nothing more than my passport in the Eurozone. I didn't even have an address in the country.

Nyusha
28-07-2011, 15:04
Call back the call center. Tell them that the operator made a mistake and didn't understand you properly. Tell them that you are on a work visa in Russia and that you ARE Canadian. Insist to speak to a manager. If that manager doesn't help - ask for his manager. Go up the ladder. That's what I do. Eventually, you will get someone who WILL reissue your card.

Ask to send the card to a Canadian address, of course :)

DavidB
28-07-2011, 15:08
Call back the call center. Tell them that the operator made a mistake and didn't understand you properly. Tell them that you are on a work visa in Russia and that you ARE Canadian. Insist to speak to a manager. If that manager doesn't help - ask for his manager. Go up the ladder. That's what I do. Eventually, you will get someone who WILL reissue your card.

Ask to send the card to a Canadian address, of course :)

Banks usually record calls for this reason. The OP also said that he wrote to the Customer Service department, which probably nixes any chance of fabricating a misunderstanding.

Nyusha
28-07-2011, 15:23
Banks usually record calls for this reason. The OP also said that he wrote to the Customer Service department, which probably nixes any chance of fabricating a misunderstanding.

I was under the impression that calls get recorded for quality control and training purposes. I highly doubt that they will go searching through massive archives just to deal with a simple card reissue. There is no drawback to trying to call again. IMHO

DavidB
28-07-2011, 15:39
I was under the impression that calls get recorded for quality control and training purposes. I highly doubt that they will go searching through massive archives just to deal with a simple card reissue. There is no drawback to trying to call again. IMHO

They have to record details about all calls for fraud control purposes. I can say for sure that it takes very little effort to retrieve a conversation record using modern call center software. I previously had a dispute with a phone company, and they were able to email the conversation recording (mp3) in a few minutes.

Nyusha
28-07-2011, 15:43
I previously had a dispute with a phone company, and they were able to email the conversation recording (mp3) in a few minutes.

Hmmm - sometimes modern technology sucks.

Bogatyr
28-07-2011, 17:14
:suspect: Why the hell would you tell them that you live here permanently?

Yeah for financial institutions a statement like "I'm currently working abroad on assignment" usually keeps them happy. I've even had CC companies offer to fedex a new card to me in Russia, but prefer to pick up in person when I'm back for visits. It's convenient to maintain a home-country mail address for financial accounts and government (tax) mailings. There are mail service centers these days that allow you to specify that they scan specific pieces of mail so you can read them online and have the original shipped wherever you want if you want, or shred it, etc.

Nyusha
28-07-2011, 17:28
Yeah for financial institutions a statement like "I'm currently working abroad on assignment" usually keeps them happy. I've even had CC companies offer to fedex a new card to me in Russia, but prefer to pick up in person when I'm back for visits. It's convenient to maintain a home-country mail address for financial accounts and government (tax) mailings. There are mail service centers these days that allow you to specify that they scan specific pieces of mail so you can read them online and have the original shipped wherever you want if you want, or shred it, etc.

My best friend does it for me. She is stable and reliable and won't hop around the world like me. So, my permanent address is her house.

Swordfish90293
28-07-2011, 19:23
Drink 10 beers, call back and curse their mothers and sisters with the most unspeakable hubris and foul filth you can muster...then watch them bend to your will...

inorcist
29-07-2011, 14:10
If you still have a bank account in Canada offer your bank to block a certain amount on the account as a guarantee.

This is how I did it when I moved from Switzerland to Russia.

Uncle Pasha
06-08-2011, 07:40
Thank you for giving me something to think about.

I'll be dealing with it when back to civilization (off in Karelia now in search of material but mostly inspiration for a comprehensive "authentic tourism" resource) but the situation with banks doesn't look good. I've seen people in a much more solid financial situation than mine have their credit line drastically cut.

But then again, the bank's arbitrary refusal to work with me seems to give me a valid reason not to deal with the bank, and it is I who owes. So if the Russian part of my life is a problem for the bank and I am not getting a house loan when back anyway I may as well tell them off. At least till the Toronto Dominion choses to restore status quo.

This story sort of pushes me to rearrange my world view. I always thought in my na´vetÚ that Canadian/western institutions are fair and that the only way to deal with them is to tell them the truth, the whole truth etc. Worked so far. I don't feel like making up a story that I'm here on an assignment etc.

..I doubt a Russian bank would object to a Russian national living and working abroad. I'm shocked that a Canadian bank did.

Now another practical question. What happens if one stops paying credit card bills? I've never tried that but unless Canada Trust / Toronto Dominion come to their senses I don't have much of an incentive to pay them back. Ignoring bills is something new and unknown to me. Any **been there** stories?

Still can't get over it.. I'm here since '94, no problem from my end, and then all of a sudden "we are closing your account".

I still remember the days when you could pay with a personal cheque, no ID asked. Or order a truckfull of horse feed and receive a bill a month later, no further hassles or formalities. "What is this world coming to" no longer seems like just a rhetorical question..

I'll try the persistent "let me speak to your supervisor" and "block a certain amount" solution. But I've never seen heared anybody in Canada sound more unwelcoming than this bank during our recent conversation..

yakspeare
06-08-2011, 09:33
Thank you for giving me something to think about.

I'll be dealing with it when back to civilization (off in Karelia now in search of material but mostly inspiration for a comprehensive "authentic tourism" resource) but the situation with banks doesn't look good. I've seen people in a much more solid financial situation than mine have their credit line drastically cut.

But then again, the bank's arbitrary refusal to work with me seems to give me a valid reason not to deal with the bank, and it is I who owes. So if the Russian part of my life is a problem for the bank and I am not getting a house loan when back anyway I may as well tell them off. At least till the Toronto Dominion choses to restore status quo.

This story sort of pushes me to rearrange my world view. I always thought in my na´vetÚ that Canadian/western institutions are fair and that the only way to deal with them is to tell them the truth, the whole truth etc. Worked so far. I don't feel like making up a story that I'm here on an assignment etc.

..I doubt a Russian bank would object to a Russian national living and working abroad. I'm shocked that a Canadian bank did.

Now another practical question. What happens if one stops paying credit card bills? I've never tried that but unless Canada Trust / Toronto Dominion come to their senses I don't have much of an incentive to pay them back. Ignoring bills is something new and unknown to me. Any **been there** stories?

Still can't get over it.. I'm here since '94, no problem from my end, and then all of a sudden "we are closing your account".

I still remember the days when you could pay with a personal cheque, no ID asked. Or order a truckfull of horse feed and receive a bill a month later, no further hassles or formalities. "What is this world coming to" no longer seems like just a rhetorical question..

I'll try the persistent "let me speak to your supervisor" and "block a certain amount" solution. But I've never seen heared anybody in Canada sound more unwelcoming than this bank during our recent conversation..

well it seems no one can change your opinion in this matter and now your "worldvew" and thoughts of the Canadian banking system are changing...I find the thing highly amusing.

OF COURSE they won't deal with you if you are a permanent resident in a foreign country-it is a domestic credit card. You are allowed to travel with it , but being a permanent resident in another country means you are not subject to Canadian legislation.

I have a military pension...nothing can stop it unless I permanetly leave Australia. I can't collect it overseas. My credit cards are all have down my father's address in Australia...what is annoying, and I have sympathy for anyone in this, is when you notify them you are overseas for a short while and they still cancel your cards thinking someone is committing fraud/stolen it....but to actively tell them you are a permanent resident in a foreign country and expect anything less than this-well its mindboggling.

next time don't tell them.

Uncle Pasha
17-09-2011, 10:01
Thank you all for your advice. The offending bank (Toronto Dominion) seems to have altogether disappeared from my life. No bills, no response to letters where I pointed out that I've been their client for the last close 30 years and that refusing service to me is counterproductive. The other one (MasterCard from The National Bank of Canada) didn't seem to have an issue with where I live as long as I have a mailing address in Canada. So just be aware that Visa/Toronto Dominion/Canada Trust prefer you give them incorrect information. MasterCard/National don't make you misrepresent the situation. I wonder if the reaction depends on the card or on the issuing bank..

rusmeister
17-09-2011, 15:57
I had my MC cancelled after 20 years of faithful borrowing and paying, not because I live in Russia, but because of "account inactivity". I had dropped down to using it only once or twice a year due to the difficulty in transferring payments, a.nd they shut me down essentially without warning. That I had borrowed and paid back tens of thousands of dollars, proving my reliability, means nothing anymore. It used to be THE number one thing they wanted in a client. But with the growing stranglehold of the banking lobby over customer rights, now only customers who owe lots of money, make minimum payments, remaining in deep debt are of value, providing them with interest revenue. People like me, who borrow - even big - and pay it off, leaving them with long periods of not sucking money out of our pockets for nothing in particular, are now considered liabilities, and customers in perma-debt - the assets.

Parco
17-09-2011, 16:42
With regards to not repaying credit card debts, I can only speak of the UK system (not for Canada), although the system I imagine will be similar. The debts will be sold onto a debt management company. If the debts are of a considerable amount to bring about legal action against you, they will file a case for forced bankruptcy which is severe with any credit rating agency. The court will request appearance and evidence of why you are not paying. Failure to respond to the court request and ultimately their order will result in the criminal charge of Contempt of Court, which carries a custodial sentence and fine. So returning to your home country, could mean arrest upon arrival. The courts in the UK have the power to cancel passports, thus invalidating any visas/work permits overseas. Again, it all depends on the amount/balance involved and the determination of the debt management company to recover their debts, and the actions of the courts.

Remington
17-09-2011, 17:41
With regards to not repaying credit card debts, I can only speak of the UK system (not for Canada), although the system I imagine will be similar. The debts will be sold onto a debt management company. If the debts are of a considerable amount to bring about legal action against you, they will file a case for forced bankruptcy which is severe with any credit rating agency. The court will request appearance and evidence of why you are not paying. Failure to respond to the court request and ultimately their order will result in the criminal charge of Contempt of Court, which carries a custodial sentence and fine. So returning to your home country, could mean arrest upon arrival. The courts in the UK have the power to cancel passports, thus invalidating any visas/work permits overseas. Again, it all depends on the amount/balance involved and the determination of the debt management company to recover their debts, and the actions of the courts.

I believe you have to be served first... assuming if they can find you. That is how it is done in US. If they can't find you, cannot serve you and they cannot take you to court in absence because that will be illegal or unconstitutional. Airport will not arrest anyone who is delinquent on payments since it's not criminal unless if they miss child support payments because that's based on court decree.

That's how many illegal Mexicans got 'free' medical services in US because they simply disappear and the hospital or debt collection agency cannot find them.

Some American expats leave US because of their US debt problems and stay abroad for around 5 to 7 years before the statue of limitation to sue them in court runs out but their credit report is already ruined.

Parco
19-09-2011, 11:31
That is how it is done in US.

The UK courts can and sometimes do under the revised bankruptcy laws, which came into effect in 2002 under the Enterprise Act.

Non-compliance with a court in the UK results in the charge of Contempt of Court, which is an arrestable offence. The original non-payment of debts isn't.