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craigmac
26-06-2011, 12:36
Hi stranded car problem.

I live in Ukraine and travel frequently to Russia by car, the border is no problem etc etc .


This time the car blew the gear box , it's not worth recovering and repair is not an economic option.

So car sitting in a garage fore court with junked gearbox and one stamp entering Russia with a car in my passport

What happens if i just leave it there ,, I left Russia by train ( now back in Ukraine) and no problems, at that point

But I worry at some time in the future someone will say where is the car I entered with ? and never left with


Any ideas


thanks Craig

20101

Tony P
26-06-2011, 13:23
one stamp entering Russia with a car in my passport

What happens if i just leave it there ,, I left Russia by train ( now back in Ukraine) and no problems, at that point


There is no stamp in your Passport saying you entered with a car.

There will be a stamp showing a car symbol which indicates you entered via a road border. You get the same stamp whether you cross a road border by car, bus, moto, bicycle or on foot.

There will be no problem leaving RUS by aircraft, boat or train - thereby receiving a different stamp.


You main problem about the car would be from Customs - who have your Passport details on their copy of the Declaration (you have the other copy with the bar-code).

I have no knowledge of how you go about it.
I would think you should somehow get a Customs office to accept the car is scrapped, take back your Document and release you from it's ownership responsibility.

Others may be able to help on this point

craigmac
26-06-2011, 15:02
Hi tony thanks

do you think that Russian customs computers are sophisticated enough or connected enough that the next time I try to go by car it would flag up that I entered by car,,,,, say 3 months previous


The ukraine customs are not connected at each border post,, they don't even flag up if you over stay the 90 day rule,,they have to count it manually.

I recently brought a second car into Ukraine and not a peep at the border. although I already had a car in Ukraine, not even a question why I wanted 2 cars in Ukraine

thanks Craig


Ps I have one worry in asking for help on the scrap idea they may still put a value on it because the parts are worth about, 5,000 USD in Moscow and I dont want to pay anything

craigmac
26-06-2011, 15:14
I wish i could

but problem is car cost 2000 USD in the UK

Russian value 10,000 USD gearbox or not customs duty 5000 give or take

You see the problem

aint worth the hassle


Thanks Craig

craigmac
26-06-2011, 15:22
I know

I loved the old girl she was fast as hell and sounded like Mozart when on on full throttle,

she took me all over Russia Europe,Ukraine Bulgaria.


No mean feat when you know Russian roads


So RIP


just the one outstanding question about the Russian customs before i get some emotional closure

Craig

Hans.KK
26-06-2011, 16:21
just the one outstanding question about the Russian customs before i get some emotional closureI you choose to leave it i russia then try to make it as anonymous as you can, remove all traces of any numbers, Licenseplate, chassis-motor-numbers, etc.
There is no need to make it easy to trace it back to you just in case.

On the other hand, to take out the gearbox and repair it is most of all a time consumption thing, and hourly wages are not that expensive in russia ?

craigmac
26-06-2011, 19:51
thanks

i stripped the number plates before heading on to Moscow it died about 250 km from the city


and i hope where it is it will sit unnoticed for a long time untill it dawns on the garage owner i am not coming back.


To buy the car in the Uk max 1500 USD plus a whizz air flight from kiev 50 usd

To repair

Flight/train to Moscow 250 usd

repair cost lets say 500 usd

benzine back to Ukraine 150 usd

time lost 100 usd

plus plus

you see where I am going not worth the bother

still a little scared it will flash up on my passport at some point in the future,?

Tony P
26-06-2011, 22:12
do you think that Russian customs computers are sophisticated enough or connected enough that the next time I try to go by car it would flag up that I entered by car,,,,, say 3 months previous

The ukraine customs are not connected at each border post,, they don't even flag up if you over stay the 90 day rule,,they have to count it manually.

I have one worry in asking for help on the scrap idea they may still put a value on it because the parts are worth about, 5,000 USD in Moscow and I dont want to pay anything


If you are firstly talking about the Russian FMS (immigration) computor, the information it contains is amazingly thorough for their own purposes.
-It shows photos from Visa Applications (which are different from my Passport).
-It shows present and past Visa details.
-It shows all dates and places of previous entry and exits.
-It holds details or previous and present Registrations.
Although holding and displaying all this info, it appears to be up to the individual officer to interpret the raw information (count 90 days etc) - that then depends on his work load, keenness for the job and attitute to you and of the moment.

As before - there is no problem for you with the FMS computor.
It is the Customs computor that you should consider.
I do not know if they are linked. Probably not in the normal day-to-day run of things. But possibly at a deeper level connections can be made.

However, at road border entry points, if you enter with a vehicle, Customs require your Declaration form which contains some personal ID details. They also study your Passport and V5C (UK Registration document) and enter quite a bit of info into their computor.
I know they can bring up your previous vehicles through those details because recently on exit into Finland, while looking for the computor record of my car's entry he said "I have found your motorbike and that is not here in Russia". The moto was last here nearly 2 years ago and has never been into/from Finland but only taken through RUS border crossings with Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland !

It is easy enough to abandon, 'de-identify' and dispose of parts of your car, as others above have suggested.
But that is not the whole answer because the paper and computor trail remains. That should be your concern.

Solutions?

I have heard of visitors selling their vehicles and going to the Customs office with the purchaser to pay any duty and transfer regularise things.

I have also heard of vehicles being totally wrecked and the visiting owner going to Customs with the Police Accident Report.

Neither these are wholly appropriate to your circumstances (unless you sell it to someone for parts, or it gets stolen from the garage forecourt and you get a Police Report). But your circumstances must have happened before.

What was the value you put on the Customs Declaration? That would surely be a maximum base value for them to go on.

I would strongly urge that you get the old car regularised with the Customs. There could be inconvenience and cost implications SHOULD they realise it is you coming back in, in the future. If so I would imagine they would seek at least the Duty on the value you declared it on the Declaration Form - probably compounded with penalties for letting things lapse.
I don't think Customs can prevent your personal entry/exit - but they can impede and possibly impound a vehicle or other personal goods.

Good luck.

Hans.KK
26-06-2011, 22:15
Worst case is that you will have to pay import tax and a fine because you forgot to do so ?

Some car hull insurance covers this senario where you have to leave you car in an other country than where you are residens (and your car i registrated).

So the 1 million dollar quistion is as you post it your self, "Will the customs/police/etc. discover this issue by them self ?" and if they do, will they claim something against you ?

If they find "you" interesting and go through all files they have, they will find this issue. But something must be triggering this interest, it will not happen automatically.

If they for some strange reason find your car interesting they will be able to trace it back to you (If the chassisnumber fit for the number on some of the files, customs declaration and/or your russian temporary carregistration, which it in some cases do not). Make is so that they never find the car in any way.

craigmac
26-06-2011, 22:43
Ok so it's in the lap of the gods really


I put 1000 USD as the value on the car when entering but that's the UK value


I believe Russian customs levy the duty on Russian market price which could go as high as 10,000 USD ( FTO's sell in Moscow at this I think)

So to extricate the car from Russia will cost big bucks on a breakdown truck

To repair it will be well over it's value and to control repairs from the Ukraine ain't feasible.

To pay duty on it could cost a small fortune.

What's left.. take a chance next time I enter and explain it's in the garage being repaired if someone pulls me.


Ahhh go back and torch it seems the only option at the moment ( just joking)


thanks all

craig :10518:

Tony P
26-06-2011, 23:03
Hans.
You are looking at this from the position of the car being identified.
I am looking at this from the position of him personally and the 'gap' in his official paper and computor records.

My worry would be that Customs will always know about this vehicle's Entry/Exit history, just as they knew about my motorbike when I was in my car at a completely different border with a 'new' country, nearly 2 years later.

That 'gap' in the records will come up whenever they enter his personal information on him bringing another vehicle in. There will also come a time when his initial entry period expires (3 months?) and questions asked. He cannot keep ducking it for ever.



Craig.
I am contacting a 'fixer' friend of mine who may be able to help by taking over the vehicle subject to him 'squaring' Customs. I will PM you if he wants to assist. I should hear back in the next day or so.

tasel
28-06-2011, 01:46
Some people can buy your vehicle for the spare parts purpose. Just do it that way.