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Len Ganley Stance
21-08-2007, 17:51
Unless he appeals the decision that is.

HEINZE LOSES APPEAL

Gabriel Heinze has lost his bid to force Manchester United to sell him to Liverpool.

The Argentina defender had gone to a Premier League panel claiming United had written a letter allowing him to leave if another club offered a fee of £6.8million.

The panel have dismissed Heinze's case and backed United, who maintained they made it clear to the 29-year-old both orally and in writing that he would not be permitted to join one of their title rivals.

It now appears that if Heinze is intent on leaving the club he will have to move abroad.

The Premier League said in a statement: "The hearing concluded that nature and intention of the disputed 13 June 2007 letter, especially when taken in context of verbal discussions and Manchester United FC's transfer policy, was unambiguous in that it envisages only an international transfer.

"Furthermore the hearing finds the letter constitutes an 'agreement to agree', and did not create an obligation or binding agreement for the club to transfer the player to any particular club.

"In other words the letter is evidence of an intention to negotiate, both between the parties and with potential buying clubs, and not evidence of any intention to create legal relations."

Heinze does have the right to appeal to the Premier League appeals committee, which is made up of an independent, legally-qualified chairman, a member of the Premier League panel and a PFA appointee.

The decision has delighted United, who were represented by both manager Sir Alex Ferguson and chief executive David Gill at the hearing in London.

Judge
21-08-2007, 22:44
What's Utd's problem,UTD are not selling to one of their rivals,Liverpool are in the top half of the league and UTD are near the bottom.
No problem for Liverpool we will get someone else.

Len Ganley Stance
21-08-2007, 22:49
What's Utd's problem,UTD are not selling to one of their rivals,Liverpool are in the top half of the league and UTD are near the bottom.
No problem for Liverpool we will get someone else.

Why on earth would United want to sell a player like Gabby Heinze to Liverpool? Could you imagine the uproar if Liverpool were to sell Steven Gerrard to United. It was bad enough when Gerrard was going to sign for Chelsea.

Judge
23-08-2007, 00:28
Why on earth would United want to sell a player like Gabby Heinze to Liverpool? Could you imagine the uproar if Liverpool were to sell Steven Gerrard to United. It was bad enough when Gerrard was going to sign for Chelsea.

Gabby isn't no Gerrard,you can't compare the two.

Looks like Gabby is off to Real, at team who will screw UTD in the champs league..
Real Madrid have agreed a deal to sign Manchester United defender Gabriel Heinze.


The Spanish champions have been strongly linked with the Argentine, who had been hoping to join Liverpool, in recent weeks.

Following a Premier League panel's decision to block the player's move to Anfield, Real have now stepped in with an offer.

Real have confirmed their bid has been accepted by United and Heinze will sign a four-year contract at the Bernabeu.

Heinze is expected to arrive in Madrid on Thursday to undergo a medical before being confirmed as a Real player.

exprumos
23-08-2007, 01:03
IMHO, a god move for Heinze.
Okay, he has to move the family and all that BS, but would you rather live in Liverpool or Madrid, given the choice?

And I do believe he is worth every penny of the reported 8m.

Judge
23-08-2007, 01:11
IMHO, a god move for Heinze.
Okay, he has to move the family and all that BS, but would you rather live in Liverpool or Madrid, given the choice?

And I do believe he is worth every penny of the reported 8m.

Maybe that was one of the reasons why he wanted to move to Liverpool because his family would not need to move far,he could have travelled to Liverpool from where ever his home is.

Real have good a bargain,i hope he comes abck and haunts UTD in the champs league with van nistelrooy.

Len Ganley Stance
23-08-2007, 08:47
Gabby isn't no Gerrard,you can't compare the two.



That's right Judge, he definitely is no Stevie Gerrard. I've never seen Heinze dive to get a free kick or a penalty once in his life :D.

Heinze is a good player but has behaved like a muppet throughout this whole affair. United were very good to him when he had his long term injury and what does he do? We sign another left back (Patrice Evra) when Heinze is injured. Heinze returns from injury and expects to get back in the team straightaway. He doesn't because Evra's playing well. Heinze isn't prepared to fight for his place. He wants to join Liverpool but still has two years to run on his contract at United. We sell him to Real Madrid.

What Fergie should have done was give him to Everton on a Free Transfer.

kste22
23-08-2007, 09:25
What Fergie should have done was give him to Everton on a Free Transfer

Heinze in place of the worldclass nuno valente, doubt Kenwrights wage structure would accomodate more than 50quid a week, so on a free its steep for the self named 'peoples club'

kste22
23-08-2007, 09:27
Although i am utterly satisfied by the whole thing, regardless of Heinze not joing Liverpool, Man Ure and Slur Alex have been left with a problem player and a little bit of a headache, although after the Usual couple of Alka Seltzers in the morning im sure whiskey breath can cope with the headache!

jl74
23-08-2007, 10:21
This deal had been done by United and Real about a month ago! did the scouse boys honestly think United's Solicitors don't put clauses in their players contracts to stop them from moving to the other big clubs in the UK? especially muppet land... Everton maybe but not the red ....!

It's a good move for him, 4 year contract at the biggest club in the world... he wanted first team footy which he will get, at Liverpool he would have spent half his time warming the pies, the daft Argie!!

Come on Sunderland... Mackem Muffins forever:cool:

Len Ganley Stance
23-08-2007, 10:25
Kste22,

United haven't been left with a problem player. He's going to Real Madrid. He's their problem now.

The fee is less than Liverpool were offering but there was no way that United were going to sell him to Liverpool. He had still two years of his contract to run and the earliest he could have bought the contract out was next Summer.

I must say, I thought that Rafa throwing his toys out of the pram yesterday in the Liverpool Echo was very bizarre.

The article is below in case you haven't read it. His point about how easy it was for United to sign Tevez is laughable. When Liverpool signed Mascherano, he was delayed making his debut because of the complexities in the paperwork and who actually owned the player, was it West Ham or the Agent. United had the same issue with Tevez, but it was far more complicated than Maxherano's move because you had the whole scenario involving Sheffield United taking legal action against West Ham and the Premier League on who actually owned Tevez's registration. The whole saga dragged on for the whole Summer.

Personally speaking, I think that both Mascherano's and Tevez's transfers should not have been allowed in the first place and West Ham should have had points deducted last season.

Anyway, here's the article from the Echo...........

Rafa Benitez blasts Premier League - News - Liverpool FC - Liverpool Echo.co.uk (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2007/08/22/rafa-benitez-blasts-premier-league-100252-19671289/)

Rafa Benitez blasts Premier League

Aug 22 2007 EXCLUSIVE by Chris Bascombe, Liverpool Echo

RAFA BENITEZ today accused the Premier League of unfair treatment which threatens to wreck any chance of a Liverpool title challenge.

A furious Reds boss says it’s clear decisions are being taken which favour the Reds’ rivals, with yesterday’s dismissal of Gabriel Heinze’s bid to join Liverpool the latest setback.

In a blistering attack, Benitez said today: “I would like to ask the Premier League a number of questions. How can a player with a signed agreement be treated like this?

“He has a document which is clear, but the Premier League prefers to believe the word of someone else who made a mistake. I know there were accusations made against Liverpool in the hearing which were unbelievable. How can this be allowed?

“Then I would like to ask the Premier League why is it that Liverpool always plays the most fixtures, away from home in an early kick-off, following an international break? We had more than the top clubs last season and we have four already to prepare for this season.

“Then I want to ask the Premier League why it was so so difficult for Liverpool to sign Javier Mascherano, when we had to wait a long time for the paperwork, but it was so easy for Carlos Tevez to join Manchester United?

“It’s going to be very difficult for us to win the Premier League because the other teams are so strong, but I want our supporters to know that despite the disadvantages we have, we will fight all the way.

“We will fight to cope with our more difficult kick-off times and all the other decisions which are going against us.”

Benitez is pondering his contingency plan on Heinze, while recognising the courage the player has shown in a bid to join Liverpool. Heinze is ready to risk being stuck in limbo for a year to fight on for his move to Liverpool.

His appeal against the decision denying his switch to Anfield won’t be heard until September - after the transfer deadline.

But if the Argentine is successful in a fresh hearing, there is a provision for a deal to proceed outside the transfer window.

Should his appeal fail, however, he’ll be stuck in United’s reserves for the season, until he can buy himself out of the club next summer.

The 29-year-old was distraught following yesterday’s verdict, but his appeal will be heard by a new committee. Yesterday, a two man panel consisting of Premier League Chairman Sir David Richards (ex-Sheffield Wednesday) and legal advisor Peter McCormick (ex-Leeds) rejected the Manchester United defender’s claim he had permission to join any club for £6.8m.

They agreed with the submissions of United chief executive David Gill and manager Sir Alex Ferguson, who argued it was made clear from the outset the agreement referred only to a foreign transfer.

It is being suggested Gill also made the extraordinary claim that Liverpool asked Crystal Palace to sign Heinze on their behalf, before selling him on to the Reds. The fact the exit fee was valued in euros rather than pounds was used as a key argument.

An appeal panel will consist of three, including a PFA representative and a high ranking member of the legal profession.

Heinze remains optimistic an appeal will be accepted and is in no mood to give up on his hopes of moving to Liverpool.

His solicitor, Richard Green, said today: “We are extremely disappointed with the result and we will be appealing.”

There is no means of appeal to the Premier League after the next hearing.

United are now hoping to offload Heinze to another club, and are prepared to accept much less than £6.8m.

They also know Heinze will be in a position to force his move to Liverpool within 12 months.

The difficulty for Liverpool boss Benitez is he’s keen for a defensive reinforcement before the end of this month, and now knows he can’t rely on the Heinze verdict going the player’s way

kste22
23-08-2007, 10:43
I read the article last night and agree with everything he said! The Tevez affair had big publicity and lots of nobody's giving their two pence worth but at the end of the day it was always going to happen regardless of the scare tactics of the national (sensationalist) UK press!

In regards to his point about fixtures, he's agan quite correct! Just look at the opening day!

I see Heinze signed for Madrid, Slur Alex must have been concerned about him going to us, which indicates to me he is worried what effect it would have had! I see Manure are playing Spurs this weekend, should be interesting a team that can't defend again a team that can't score, either way a sure thing is that the traffic on the way back to London will be terrible all those 80,000 cockneys

kste22
23-08-2007, 10:44
This deal had been done by United and Real about a month ago! did the scouse boys honestly think United's Solicitors don't put clauses in their players contracts to stop them from moving to the other big clubs in the UK? especially muppet land... Everton maybe but not the red ....!

It's a good move for him, 4 year contract at the biggest club in the world... he wanted first team footy which he will get, at Liverpool he would have spent half his time warming the pies, the daft Argie!!

Come on Sunderland... Mackem Muffins forever:cool:

Spent all his time on the bench!!!!!!!!!!! What have you seen are left backs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Len Ganley Stance
23-08-2007, 11:37
In regards to his point about fixtures, he's agan quite correct! Just look at the opening day!



Sorry Kste22, I don't see your point on the above. In this season's opening fixture you played Villa away and beat them. Your next fixture was Chelsea at Anfield who you drew with, but you would have beaten but a poor refereeing decision went against you. Your next five fixtures are Sunderland (A) / Derby (H) / Portsmouth (A) / Birmingham (H) and Wigan (A). All of those games are winnable.

Last season on the opening day, you played Sheff United at their place and then West Ham at home.

The season before that, you played Boro away and Sunderland at home.

I do not understand your point regarding the fixtures. This season's first two fixtures may have looked difficult on paper when the fixtures were published but you took the points from Villa and I'm sure that if you asked Liverpool supporers before the Chelsea game was played, a lot of them would have been happen to take a point from the game. Of course, they'd all want to beat them but.....

On the Tevez thing, it was ONLY going to happen if everything was done totally above board. The same way as I'm sure that Liverpool did when signing Mascherano.

That is clearly something that West Ham didn't do in the first place.

kste22
23-08-2007, 12:02
My point being, we start the prem away at villa, not home fixtures against Birmingham, Fulham and Reading! We are away first game of the season at a Television time! Against a team that in hindsight we beat but before could have easily been very tricky! Just because we made a winning start doesn;t mean it was a poor hand given to Liverpool! Secondly we are stuck with strange kick off time's not 3 or 4pm but 12:45, 5:30 etc! I dont have the time to surf the past five years fixtures but i know we have never been given a Manure style rub of the green, take are away fixtures last season! Which off the top of my head included Chavski, bolton, Everton in the first month!

Len Ganley Stance
23-08-2007, 13:02
My point being, we start the prem away at villa, not home fixtures against Birmingham, Fulham and Reading! We are away first game of the season at a Television time! Against a team that in hindsight we beat but before could have easily been very tricky! Just because we made a winning start doesn;t mean it was a poor hand given to Liverpool! Secondly we are stuck with strange kick off time's not 3 or 4pm but 12:45, 5:30 etc! I dont have the time to surf the past five years fixtures but i know we have never been given a Manure style rub of the green, take are away fixtures last season! Which off the top of my head included Chavski, bolton, Everton in the first month!

Kste22,

The fixtures are decided by the Premier League's computer. What is programmed into that I'm f*cked if I know but I do know that certain permutations are built into it. Things like, you can't have Everton and Liverpool both playing at home on the same day. The same thing also applies to United and City / Arsenal and Tottenham and so on.

If there was a full fixture programme on a Saturday (highly unlikely in these days of wall-to-wall TV coverage), ten of the teams will be playing at home and as you've probably guessed by now, ten will be playing away from home.

Your fixtures last season after you beat West Ham were as follows - Everton (A) - you lost 3-nil / Chelsea (A) - you lost 1-nil / Newcastle (H) you won 2-nil / Tottenham (A) you won 3-nil and Bolton (A) you lost 2-nil. It seems to me that the 'real problem' Liverpool had in the early part of last season was that you could win your home games but we're rubbish away from home. It is deluded to think that there's some kind of conspiracy against Liverpool Football Club as to how the fixture list is determined.

The reason for early kick offs are because of Sky TV coverage. The clubs are more than happy to take the cash as without it a lot of them wouldn't have a pot to p*ss in.

Judge
23-08-2007, 13:08
My point being, we start the prem away at villa, not home fixtures against Birmingham, Fulham and Reading! We are away first game of the season at a Television time! Against a team that in hindsight we beat but before could have easily been very tricky! Just because we made a winning start doesn;t mean it was a poor hand given to Liverpool! Secondly we are stuck with strange kick off time's not 3 or 4pm but 12:45, 5:30 etc! I dont have the time to surf the past five years fixtures but i know we have never been given a Manure style rub of the green, take are away fixtures last season! Which off the top of my head included Chavski, bolton, Everton in the first month!

Good point, the amount of times Liverpool kick off early is dodgy to say the least.I know that many Liverpool fans complain about early starts.To me it seems one rule for the others and a different one for us.Liverpool have always had a hard time from the press and other parts in football,maybe it's down to us being the most successful club in England,we always cope with anything that's put in front of us.

Len Ganley Stance
23-08-2007, 14:36
Good point, the amount of times Liverpool kick off early is dodgy to say the least.I know that many Liverpool fans complain about early starts.To me it seems one rule for the others and a different one for us.Liverpool have always had a hard time from the press and other parts in football,maybe it's down to us being the most successful club in England,we always cope with anything that's put in front of us.

Judge,

It seems to me that you're having an attack of the paranoias.

I think that you'll find that most of the big clubs have early kicks throughout the season. It goes with the territory - big club + big fan base = higher viewing figures for Sky + better prospects to sell the live feed to overseas broadcasters.

You might find that the reason Liverpool are playing at lunch time this Saturday is because you have the small issue of playing the second leg of a Champions League qualifier on Tuesday. You'll probably even find that Rafa will rest some of your more important players against Sunderland, as getting into the Group Stages of the CL is an absolute priority for the club and the new owners.

With your first team squad comprising of something like forty five players, I shouldn't think that Rafa will have too many problems in scraping together a team for the Sunderland game. The problem he probably has though is remembering all the players names.

Judge
23-08-2007, 20:34
It's just not me and Kste22 who says this about the early kick offs.Maybe they are doing this one for the champs league but what about all the other times.We will put our best team out against Sunderland,the league is our main goal this season.We don't need to rest anyone for the game on tuesday,we are 1 nil up and playing at home.

Rafa is letting off some steam....


Rafa Benitez blasts Premier League



RAFA BENITEZ today accused the Premier League of unfair treatment which threatens to wreck any chance of a Liverpool title challenge.

A furious Reds boss says it’s clear decisions are being taken which favour the Reds’ rivals, with yesterday’s dismissal of Gabriel Heinze’s bid to join Liverpool the latest setback.

In a blistering attack, Benitez said today: “I would like to ask the Premier League a number of questions. How can a player with a signed agreement be treated like this?

“He has a document which is clear, but the Premier League prefers to believe the word of someone else who made a mistake. I know there were accusations made against Liverpool in the hearing which were unbelievable. How can this be allowed?

“Then I would like to ask the Premier League why is it that Liverpool always plays the most fixtures, away from home in an early kick-off, following an international break? We had more than the top clubs last season and we have four already to prepare for this season.

“Then I want to ask the Premier League why it was so so difficult for Liverpool to sign Javier Mascherano, when we had to wait a long time for the paperwork, but it was so easy for Carlos Tevez to join Manchester United?

“It’s going to be very difficult for us to win the Premier League because the other teams are so strong, but I want our supporters to know that despite the disadvantages we have, we will fight all the way.

“We will fight to cope with our more difficult kick-off times and all the other decisions which are going against us.”

Benitez is pondering his contingency plan on Heinze, while recognising the courage the player has shown in a bid to join Liverpool. Heinze is ready to risk being stuck in limbo for a year to fight on for his move to Liverpool.

His appeal against the decision denying his switch to Anfield won’t be heard until September - after the transfer deadline.

But if the Argentine is successful in a fresh hearing, there is a provision for a deal to proceed outside the transfer window.

Should his appeal fail, however, he’ll be stuck in United’s reserves for the season, until he can buy himself out of the club next summer.

The 29-year-old was distraught following yesterday’s verdict, but his appeal will be heard by a new committee. Yesterday, a two man panel consisting of Premier League Chairman Sir David Richards (ex-Sheffield Wednesday) and legal advisor Peter McCormick (ex-Leeds) rejected the Manchester United defender’s claim he had permission to join any club for £6.8m.

They agreed with the submissions of United chief executive David Gill and manager Sir Alex Ferguson, who argued it was made clear from the outset the agreement referred only to a foreign transfer.

It is being suggested Gill also made the extraordinary claim that Liverpool asked Crystal Palace to sign Heinze on their behalf, before selling him on to the Reds. The fact the exit fee was valued in euros rather than pounds was used as a key argument.

An appeal panel will consist of three, including a PFA representative and a high ranking member of the legal profession.

Heinze remains optimistic an appeal will be accepted and is in no mood to give up on his hopes of moving to Liverpool.

His solicitor, Richard Green, said today: “We are extremely disappointed with the result and we will be appealing.”

There is no means of appeal to the Premier League after the next hearing.

United are now hoping to offload Heinze to another club, and are prepared to accept much less than £6.8m.

They also know Heinze will be in a position to force his move to Liverpool within 12 months.

The difficulty for Liverpool boss Benitez is he’s keen for a defensive reinforcement before the end of this month, and now knows he can’t rely on the Heinze verdict going the player’s way.

Len Ganley Stance
23-08-2007, 22:14
Judge you bloody Muppet :farout:,

I think that you might find that I already posted that article from the Liverpool Echo earlier on this thread. Try and keep up there lad :nut:.

You won't have your best team out against Sunderland - the latest reports say that Steven Gerrard will miss the game and is also doubtful for the Champions League game.

I see also that Rafa has signed yet another two players today to boost your ridiculously large squad. Quantity over quality seems to be Rafa's thing.

Judge
23-08-2007, 22:40
Judge you bloody Muppet :farout:,

I think that you might find that I already posted that article from the Liverpool Echo earlier on this thread. Try and keep up there lad :nut:.

You won't have your best team out against Sunderland - the latest reports say that Steven Gerrard will miss the game and is also doubtful for the Champions League game.

I see also that Rafa has signed yet another two players today to boost your ridiculously large squad. Quantity over quality seems to be Rafa's thing.

What the hell are you doing reading our paper,hands off.

I've heard nothing about two new players, need to look into that.
Gerrard is out for a bit but we will cope ,i'll drop him from my fantasy team.
It's not a matter of quantity over quality,Rafa knows what he wants and he's building for the future.

kste22
24-08-2007, 09:19
Judge you bloody Muppet :farout:,

I think that you might find that I already posted that article from the Liverpool Echo earlier on this thread. Try and keep up there lad :nut:.

You won't have your best team out against Sunderland - the latest reports say that Steven Gerrard will miss the game and is also doubtful for the Champions League game.

I see also that Rafa has signed yet another two players today to boost your ridiculously large squad. Quantity over quality seems to be Rafa's thing.

Liverpool actually signed these players at the start of the summer only now have we got international clearance other such issues sorted but they have been at anfield for a while, plus these players do not add to the overly large squad i doubt we will see them anywhere near the first team this season!