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View Full Version : What are you doing on May 1, 2011



AstarD
27-04-2011, 18:33
A little bird just told me that there will be a fun meeting at Oktyabrskoe Pole metro station starting at 1pm. The people who gather will march along Marshala Biryuzova Street, to Kurchatov Street (square), and then continue down Marshala Vasilevskovo Street. The march will end at Schukinskaya metro station.

Who wants to join?

The theme is to ask the Russian government to stop sponsoring the North Caucasus region. The march has been agreed with the authorities.

AstarD
27-04-2011, 18:45
Why are you so sure it's skinheads?

AstarD
27-04-2011, 18:56
I guess if only nationalists show up, it will turn out to be a skinhead/nationalist march. But if reasonable people who really want to protest about actual issues turn up and don't let the nationalist skinheads turn it into a racist thing, then it might be a good thing?

Do you think its fair that the Caucases get so much funding just to keep them sort of quiet? There are poor regions all over Russia. Why don't they get even a small percent of what Ramzan and his buds get to order armoured Maybachs and have foreign football stars visit?

AstarD
27-04-2011, 19:33
Things in Russia will never change to be the way people want them to be if the people do not themselves show the government what they want. I hope this protest turns out to be non-violent. And I hope lots of people show up for it.

trancophile
27-04-2011, 21:50
Yeah.....I'm going to pass....just in case there are some bombers/nutballs around.

xSnoofovich
27-04-2011, 22:08
The theme is to ask the Russian government to stop sponsoring the North Caucasus region..

Please define sponsoring.

mrzuzzo
27-04-2011, 22:13
Please define sponsoring.

Diverting billions of rubles in cash to the caucus region in order to keep them quiet and happy over there.

xSnoofovich
27-04-2011, 22:17
I guess if only nationalists show up, it will turn out to be a skinhead/nationalist march. But if reasonable people who really want to protest about actual issues turn up and don't let the nationalist skinheads turn it into a racist thing, then it might be a good thing?

Right, so lets all go hang out with skinheads, so it makes it look like a really large crowd, then when everyone across Europe and the world goes to buy their newspapers the next day, it will look like hundreds of like minded individuals all showed up to support each other. And if a fight or two breaks out, then hey, the more the merrier.

Of course, it is a racist thing, and it's also slightly about being anti-muslim as well. But mostly it is racist.




Do you think its fair that the Caucases get so much funding just to keep them sort of quiet?

Caspaian oil. If Russia loses access or it becomes even more problematic, then it is in a whole world of hurt in many ways.

So yea, let's go support that as well, while we are at it. Helping to break up the country sounds like something great to be part of, and an interesting story to tell the grandkids.

xSnoofovich
27-04-2011, 22:19
Diverting billions of rubles in cash to the caucus region in order to keep them quiet and happy over there.

It isn't diverting when the only reason Russia has access to the Caspian oil is because of those regions. Lose em, lose the oil...

tvadim133
27-04-2011, 22:20
Diverting billions of rubles in cash to the caucus region in order to keep them quiet and happy over there.

First of all, it is not right.

Russia has invested and invests too much money only in one region in Northern Caucasus: Chechnya.

Nothern Caucasus is a larger territory than Chechnya.

After a scandal with a new required budget from Chechens for this year, they (who?) decided to raise this topic, but I do not think it must be connected with nationalistic demonstrations, protests.

mrzuzzo
27-04-2011, 22:22
LOL... yeah, sure, anything that has to do with protests against something related to people of the muslim religion is always racist. ALWAYS.

Fcuk, I hate modern mentality.

Get to know the issue before you make assumptions.

I haven't chosen a side in this yet. On one hand, Russia is giving them money to not fight and keep them happy. I think this has a more positive economic effect than going to war with them, but at the same time we are just buying time. On the other hand, those that have some degree of power over there are getting money for doing nothing at our expense and using them to buy expensive cars, build huge estates, etc..

mrzuzzo
27-04-2011, 22:23
Russia has invested and invests too much money only in one region in Northern Caucasus: Chechnya.

I'm aware of the debate going on. I was referring to quiet, peaceful, and prospering Chechniya.. The other republics over there still don't get much, you're right.

xSnoofovich
27-04-2011, 22:27
LOL... yeah, sure, anything that has to do with protests against something related to people of the muslim religion is always racist. ALWAYS.

Fcuk, I hate modern mentality.

Get to know the issue before you make assumptions.

I haven't chosen a side in this yet. On one hand, Russia is giving them money to not fight and keep them happy. I think this has a more positive economic effect than going to war with them, but at the same time we are just buying time. On the other hand, those that have some degree of power over there are getting money for doing nothing at our expense and using them to buy expensive cars, build huge estates, etc..

My take is this.

A whole lot of Russian guys don't like people of color. It doesn't really matter who they are, but people from the caucaus are particularly disliked for whatever reasons. It also just so happens that many of these people are muslims, now, I haven't heard many people dislike them strictly because they are muslim, but I have heard them say that they are "darkies", so take that for what it is worth.

xSnoofovich
27-04-2011, 22:34
LOL... yeah, sure, anything that has to do with protests against something related to people of the muslim religion is always racist. ALWAYS.

..

As to being racist, sure, this has a trickle down effect.

I have a co-worker who is from another region in Russia (siberia). Her kids are half-white, half-whatever. The kids at their school (one is 8, the other is 12), call them all of the same names that adults call the real people of color. So, these poor kids, although they were born in Russia, have moscow registation, have a propiska, and are basically kind, caring innocent children, are called the most horrible names and have been suffering because of the hatred that is being passed on from mis-guided adults.

mrzuzzo
27-04-2011, 23:18
Our expense???????????? You're just a guest here, as am I.

I have Russian citizenship... and we're all paying taxes into the Russian tax system, regardless of where we come from.

mrzuzzo
27-04-2011, 23:21
As to being racist, sure, this has a trickle down effect.

I have a co-worker who is from another region in Russia (siberia). Her kids are half-white, half-whatever. The kids at their school (one is 8, the other is 12), call them all of the same names that adults call the real people of color. So, these poor kids, although they were born in Russia, have moscow registation, have a propiska, and are basically kind, caring innocent children, are called the most horrible names and have been suffering because of the hatred that is being passed on from mis-guided adults.

That's really sad that children have to suffer because of the ignorance and customs of others.. but, yeah, that's the way it is over here.

At the same time, I don't think that's related to the issue at hand. The issue at hand is that Chechnya is receiving enormous amounts of money from the federal budget while other republics are not. The real issue is about fairness, not racism.

mrzuzzo
27-04-2011, 23:24
So wait, are you claiming Russian or Canadian citizenship today? You go back and forth on that so much, I get confused... Oh, it's Tuesday! You're Russian. And we all know your views on race already...

FYI, personal attacks don't always lead to constructive criticism and discussion.

mrzuzzo
27-04-2011, 23:34
Personal attack?????? You have posted multiple times that you are Canadian. You have posted multiple times that you are Russian. You have posted your views how people who move here from other regions (because there is NO work in their region) are beneath you. You are the one who always ends up calling other people names and swearing.
So how am I attacking you?

Arguing with you is useless. Wasn't there a separate thread for bashing me? Can you just post there?

My nationality, citizenship, the fact that I drive an Audi, have an iPhone, etc etc has NOTHING to do with the issue that is discussed in this thread.

Let's not ruin another thread with bashing and trolling, I want to hear some constructive criticism about the event on May 1st..

tvadim133
27-04-2011, 23:45
I want to hear some constructive criticism about the event on May 1st..

My position is following:

Overspending to Chechnya is not fair indeed, but it is not a question, which might be raised by nationalists.

It is a question to our corruptive power.

So the slogan "Stop sponcoring Northern Caucasus" is more than provocative and smelling!

xSnoofovich
28-04-2011, 00:06
So the slogan "Stop sponcoring Northern Caucasus" is more than provocative and smelling!

As a thought game-

So, Russia should stop "sponsoring" these regions, walk away, and ban the people (natives from that region) from entering the Russian Federation or at the very least, just require them to apply for a visa. That would solve many of the common problems, no?

Of course, we can't do this, since as I understand it, these people have Russian passports, and Chechneya is Russian terrority. So, the nationalists really want to break up or wall off sections of their own country? Doesn't sounds like very good nationalism or even very business-like to me.

Allowing them to create their own sulf-sustaning government/regional terrority? Isn't this basically what the jihadis are and have been calling for in an attempt to establish a regional caliphate? How would this either affect regional stabilty in the rest of the -stans or even in the Islamic/ME world? Also, wouldn't this set a precedence for other Russian regions that either in the past or possibly in the future have been looking towards or are leaning towards independence?

So, what is the solution that is being sought here? Any help?

xSnoofovich
28-04-2011, 00:33
The real issue is about fairness, not racism.

Fairness? You sound like an American. What is fair? In my travels, Russia basically looks the same across the entire Federation. Most people are poor, and there are some really nice places that are not. I would guess that everyone that *DOES NOT* live in one of the (random number) 10 major cities in Russia, lives pretty much the same.

And you think they have it better in Chechneya? Good Lord man, the place has been in a state of war for the last 10/15/18 years? It is prob one of the better places to re-invest money, for many reasons. And humanitary reasons alone would be pretty high on my list.

Racism? I disagre, I fully believe this is about rascim to some extent, although the better word for it would be ethnicism. An example would be NASHI. Although I haven't followed this group as much as maybe I should have, it does seem that this group:

a) is a government sponsored youth/student group (maybe not now, but it was formed as a response to the Ukrainian color revolution)

b) is very well organized and has an established hierarchy

c) receives widespread and generally positive press

d) perceives themselves as the defenders of the "Russian Motherland"

e) for the most part, (99.9%), are white and have blonde hair and blue eyes

Now, while nothing in any of this is bad, it is telling that, since Russia has more than 110 various ethnic groups, across a wide spectrum of color and diverse regionalities, the majority of the members seem to come from one region (European), and basically have the same face (white,blonde,blue eyes).

The question(s) then must be asked, Are the other ethnic groups not worthy of defending the Motherland? Are some groups more up to the challenge? Or are some groups being excluded?

And that is the heart of the matter, the establishment of the "US/OURS" versus the "THEM", whomever the "THEM" might be today or morph into tomorrow.

xSnoofovich
28-04-2011, 00:41
I think it is mostly just "white power/nazi" a@@holes who try to use "nationalism" as a "legitimate" front for their actions..

I agree with this to some extent. I believe that some people believe in their cause 100% (white power, for example) and have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

I also believe that some groups of people are able to exploit these beliefs to further their own agendas, whatever those might be. (follow the money trail/connect the dots to the people in power, or wish to be in power).

Scary stuff.

tvadim133
28-04-2011, 01:17
As a thought game-

So, Russia should stop "sponsoring" these regions, walk away, and ban the people (natives from that region) from entering the Russian Federation or at the very least, just require them to apply for a visa. That would solve many of the common problems, no?

Of course, we can't do this, since as I understand it, these people have Russian passports, and Chechneya is Russian terrority. So, the nationalists really want to break up or wall off sections of their own country? Doesn't sounds like very good nationalism or even very business-like to me.

Allowing them to create their own sulf-sustaning government/regional terrority? Isn't this basically what the jihadis are and have been calling for in an attempt to establish a regional caliphate? How would this either affect regional stabilty in the rest of the -stans or even in the Islamic/ME world? Also, wouldn't this set a precedence for other Russian regions that either in the past or possibly in the future have been looking towards or are leaning towards independence?

So, what is the solution that is being sought here? Any help?

I do not think that nationalists, who ever they are, even think about it!

They do not care about anything or anybody, but about their stupid ideas, not mater how silly it can be or how harmfull even for them it can be in future.

AstarD
29-04-2011, 16:54
http://themoscownews.com/society/20110427/188618464.html

Oh! the irony... :trampoline:
I prefer goldy, myself.