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Len Ganley Stance
13-08-2007, 09:12
This was in the Telegraph over the weekend. It's an interesting read on the amount of foreign players who are playing in the Premier League.

Steve McClaren fears Continental drift

By John Ley
11/08/2007

It is enough to make Steve McClaren weep. The 16th Premier League season begins this weekend and, as an exclusive Daily Telegraph survey reveals, more than 60 per cent of the players who make up the 20 squads are ineligible to play for the England coach

The billions available to the elite have been invested in luring mostly foreigners here, leaving just 233 of the 596 players listed in the 20 squads as Englishmen, but that figure includes many teenagers who are not first-team regulars. The fact is, more than 350 foreigners have invaded our shores.

The Premiership clubs brought in 143 signings this summer; of that figure, 40 are English, meaning 72 per cent cannot represent England.

It is not just the usual suspects who have gone fully cosmopolitan. Arsenal are renowned for fielding a team of foreigners in the past and their squad represents that philosophy, with just five Englishmen on their books.

But the team that can truly boast to be the most multi-national are Blackburn. Mark Hughes has a squad that includes players from 20 different countries, from the Faroe Islands, the Congo and Paraguay to Grenada, Holland and South Africa.

Indeed, a remarkable 68 different countries will be represented in the Premier League this season, far more than ever before. Sadly, the consensus is that the influx of foreigners at the highest level reflects the failure of clubs to nurture home-grown players good enough for the top flight. Now, even the academies at the top clubs - Arsenal and Liverpool are good examples - are packed full of foreigners. Instead of nurturing youngsters from Birmingham, Cornwall and Norfolk, the academies are full of teenagers from the Continent and Africa.

Sven-Goran Eriksson has signed eight players for Manchester City so far - and not a single Englishman in sight. He admits that the reasons are simple; English prices are too high.

At Birmingham, where Steve Bruce faces the difficult task of keeping a newly promoted side in the top division, the problem is the same, with just two of his nine signings eligible for England. "We've had academies now for years, but where are the players?" Bruce said. "There are none, unfortunately. There's something wrong somewhere and that needs to be addressed because we'd all like to send young, British players out if we possibly could.

"You look at when the Premier League started, in 1992, and I think there were 12 [foreign] players. I think there are 350 this year so it just shows you what has happened over those years."

The most popular foreign nationality in the Premier League is French, with 41. Arsenal, predictably, boast six Frenchmen - but Portsmouth and Tottenham have as many.

The Irish are doing well in England - Republic manager Steve Staunton has 33 to choose from - while Holland (16) and Spain (15) are also well represented. And a sign of the times is reflected by the fact there are now 23 South Americans here, including 11 Brazilians. There are also 45 Africans in the Premiership - meaning that, in the new year, clubs could be desperate when the African Cup of Nations finals are taking place in Ghana.

No wonder ministers are starting to apply pressure on clubs to develop more home-grown stars. This comes after an EU white paper on sport was published last month suggesting a quota system for home-grown players.

Judge
13-08-2007, 13:04
It would be interesting to see a list of foreign players in other countries,like Italy and Spain.Italy has a alot of foreign players but they still went on to win the world cup.

Len Ganley Stance
13-08-2007, 14:44
It would be interesting to see a list of foreign players in other countries,like Italy and Spain.Italy has a alot of foreign players but they still went on to win the world cup.

There are a lot of foreign players playing in all of the major Leagues in Europe. That even includes Russia, where if you take Lokomotiv as an example they have more foreign players in their squad than they do Russians.

It's got no relevance to an international team winning a major tournament in my opinion.

If you take England as an example, the reason they have only won one major tournament, is because the players simply haven't been good enough to repeat the success of 1966, where arguably home advantage (plus a bit of assistance from a certain Mr. Bakhramov) helped England win it.

Judge
13-08-2007, 15:19
There are a lot of foreign players playing in all of the major Leagues in Europe. That even includes Russia, where if you take Lokomotiv as an example they have more foreign players in their squad than they do Russians.

It's got no relevance to an international team winning a major tournament in my opinion.

If you take England as an example, the reason they have only won one major tournament, is because the players simply haven't been good enough to repeat the success of 1966, where arguably home advantage (plus a bit of assistance from a certain Mr. Bakhramov) helped England win it.


Having loads of foreign players is part of the modern game now,not much to do about it.It's got it's pluses and minuses,on the pluse side,we get to see many great foreign players,the minus side,not many english young players coming through.

English players have come close to winning major tournaments,96 we got knocked out on pens, unlucky,Gazza should have scored and in Italy 90 we were unlucky again,beaten by the Germans on pens,not much to shout about,i know.

You know, speaking about Gazza and 96.A mate of mine works in a 5* hotel in Malta and Gazza was there for a week this summer,Gazza's drink was whisky and wine together,after a few drinks my mate(the cheeky bugger) asked Gazza,''how the hell did you miss that sitter against the Germans''.Gazza told my mate where to go, and if he wasn't so drunk he would have taken a swipe..

Len Ganley Stance
13-08-2007, 16:41
Having loads of foreign players is part of the modern game now,not much to do about it.It's got it's pluses and minuses,on the pluse side,we get to see many great foreign players,the minus side,not many english young players coming through.



There's not enough good young English players coming through for a variety of reasons. They include the following -

1) There's not enough football played in schools these days. That's partly because of the sale of School playing fields.

2) Clubs at the higher levels of the English game (the top two divisions) have always had more financial resources for developing young players than teams in the lower divisions. Those teams relied on their scouting network in identifying young players from all over the country and throughout the British Isles and offering them a trial. These days they cannot do that as today boys over the age of 12 must live within 90 minutes' driving distance of the club's ground / training facilities and those below 12 within an hour. Gone are the days when, say Liverpool could identify a kid in London, and give him a trial and sign him as an apprentice. The thinking behind this was the bigger clubs were snapping up kids from all around the country and clubs from lower divisions were missing out on these kids as they were more likely to want to go to a Liverpool or Manchester United than say, Scunthorpe. The fact is though that lower league clubs didn't have the money to have a good youth set up and they used to rely on picking up kids who had been apprentices with the bigger clubs but didn't make the grade at those bigger clubs.

3) Kids with 'potential' who do come through the ranks of smaller clubs and are seen as possible recruits by the bigger clubs are also in many cases over priced when the bigger club comes knocking, and it is possible to get players from abroad who are established for less money.


English players have come close to winning major tournaments,96 we got knocked out on pens, unlucky,Gazza should have scored and in Italy 90 we were unlucky again,beaten by the Germans on pens,not much to shout about,i know.



I'd agree that England were perhaps unlucky in Italia '90 in going out on penalties to Germany but England were actually lucky to beat Cameroon in the quarter finals. England won 3-2 in extra time but two of the goals were penalties and one if not both of them should never have been given.

Good teams don't rely on the lottery of penalties to win trophies - unless your name is Liverpool that us. Boom, boom

Judge
13-08-2007, 17:11
Maybe it's because english kids aren't good enough.Taking away the school's football fields isn't the problem,i've not heard about this, but there are loads of places to play football in England for kids, parks,academies.I think it's got more to do with how they train the kids.Look at the coaches at the top teams in England, not one english man.These coaches know their own countries well and have their scouts there.

I totally agree with number 3, kids abroad can be picked up on the cheap.

England never seem to win or go far in the youth cups, like u16,u17,u20 and u21's.

I will ignore your last sentence..

Judge
13-08-2007, 17:13
Double post...

Judge
13-08-2007, 18:33
Another reason why we have so many foreign players playing in the Prem,is because it's one of the best leagues in the world and many players want to play along side the best players and in the Champions League. Look at France, they never really had a decent league, but when they won the world cup 90 odd% played abroad,maybe english players should start to play abroad and learn a few tricks because when you watch the England team they are very flat,no spark and no idea at all.

Len Ganley Stance
14-08-2007, 07:39
Judge,

The situation was not helped when you had Techical Directors at the FA like Howard Wilkinson and that other muppet Charles Hughes. The latter is the bloke who really pushed the long ball game. Howard Wilkinson, in case you need reminding was the Leeds manager who decided to sell Eric Cantona to Manchester United as he thought Lee Chapman was a better player.

If you coach kids from an early age on basics like first touch and passing the football, they'll feel more comfortable on the ball. Also, kids should play - they are now a lot more it has to be said - on smaller pitches. When you used to watch kids playing, you'd get all the players on the pitch all chasing the ball at the same time, because of people like Charles Hughes.

The reason why coaches like Shankly, Paisley, Busby, Clough, Revie etc were so good was because their teams were taught how to pass the football.

Len Ganley Stance
14-08-2007, 10:57
Look at the coaches at the top teams in England, not one english man.These coaches know their own countries well and have their scouts there.



All of the top English clubs have a scouting network throughout Europe. It seems to me that you've forgotten that Fergie is Scottish and the only player we've had coming through the youth set up at United who is Scottish, is Darren Fletcher. It sounds to me like we need a new coach there. But being serious, there used to be a lot of Scottish / Welsh / Norn Irish and Irish players plying their trade in the top divisions of English football, but if you look at that table above you'll notice that there are only 18 Scotish players in the Premiership. Scotland used to be like the North East of England as far as producing lots of players is concerned. That's not happening nowadays because there are simply not enough good kids coming along.

Rangers have more Scots in their current first team squad than Celtic have (Celtic have about a dozen), so the Scottish Premier has a lot of foreigners playing there as well.

The last 'high profile' transfer involving a Scottish player moving from a Scottish club to an English club was probably Barry Ferguson when he moved from Rangers to Blackburn. He cost Blackburn 7.5 million quid and seemingly couldn't handle the pressure of playing in the Premiership and returned to Rangers for 4.5 million, after 16 months. Mind you, well known 'Blue Nose' Graeme Souness was managing Blackburn at the time. Not that I'm suggesting there were any shenanigans involved in the transfer :ignore:

Judge
14-08-2007, 21:58
Judge,

The situation was not helped when you had Techical Directors at the FA like Howard Wilkinson and that other muppet Charles Hughes. The latter is the bloke who really pushed the long ball game. Howard Wilkinson, in case you need reminding was the Leeds manager who decided to sell Eric Cantona to Manchester United as he thought Lee Chapman was a better player.

If you coach kids from an early age on basics like first touch and passing the football, they'll feel more comfortable on the ball. Also, kids should play - they are now a lot more it has to be said - on smaller pitches. When you used to watch kids playing, you'd get all the players on the pitch all chasing the ball at the same time, because of people like Charles Hughes.

The reason why coaches like Shankly, Paisley, Busby, Clough, Revie etc were so good was because their teams were taught how to pass the football.

All true ,what you say.I remember Wilkinson well,i've no time for him,boring guy and should have nothing to do with Football for England.

All kids will learn the basics ,first touch and passing and when to p****that's ok,but the main problem is skill with lots of young english players,they are told not to show off and keep to the basic.Imagine if someone told the likes of Maradona ,Pele and Ronaldo to stick to the basics.The continental players have more flair about them,the only decent player England has had who tried a bit of brilliance in the last 20 years for England was Gazza.
Take Joe Cole,the guys got more tricks up his sleeve than most skilled players in the world,but he's told not to show off for England,i say let him show off, a few tricks will win us games.
England players know how to pass and hold onto the ball and have a good first touch but they look clueless when they play for England,for their clubs they are great but for England they are average.

Judge
14-08-2007, 22:09
All of the top English clubs have a scouting network throughout Europe. It seems to me that you've forgotten that Fergie is Scottish and the only player we've had coming through the youth set up at United who is Scottish, is Darren Fletcher. It sounds to me like we need a new coach there. But being serious, there used to be a lot of Scottish / Welsh / Norn Irish and Irish players plying their trade in the top divisions of English football, but if you look at that table above you'll notice that there are only 18 Scotish players in the Premiership. Scotland used to be like the North East of England as far as producing lots of players is concerned. That's not happening nowadays because there are simply not enough good kids coming along.

Rangers have more Scots in their current first team squad than Celtic have (Celtic have about a dozen), so the Scottish Premier has a lot of foreigners playing there as well.

The last 'high profile' transfer involving a Scottish player moving from a Scottish club to an English club was probably Barry Ferguson when he moved from Rangers to Blackburn. He cost Blackburn 7.5 million quid and seemingly couldn't handle the pressure of playing in the Premiership and returned to Rangers for 4.5 million, after 16 months. Mind you, well known 'Blue Nose' Graeme Souness was managing Blackburn at the time. Not that I'm suggesting there were any shenanigans involved in the transfer :ignore:



When Liverpool dominated we had players from all over the UK,that was then,but in them days we had great coaches who got the best out of players from Scotland,Wales and Ireland.Maybe todays coaches can't get the best out of these players and look to the continent,this is true for Liverpool now and Arse and Chelsea because they have coaches who understand continental players.Fergie on the other hand is in a different class from these coaches when it comes to winning the Prem league,Fergie knows all the UK and continental players in and out.

Len Ganley Stance
14-08-2007, 22:34
Fergie on the other hand is in a different class from these coaches when it comes to winning the Prem league,Fergie knows all the UK and continental players in and out.

Bloody hell Judge. Have you been drinking? You appear to be complimentung Fergie there.

Judge
14-08-2007, 22:53
Bloody hell Judge. Have you been drinking? You appear to be complimentung Fergie there.

This Judge is a fair Judge.Fergie has been the best coach in the english league for these past 15 years.Time will tell if Rafa holds up against Fergie in the league,Rafa already over took Fergie in Europe getting to 2 Champ League finals and winning onebut i'm talking about the league here.The league is a different story,Fergie had a few good battles with Wenger in the past and it seems that Jose stepped in Wenger's shoes,i hope Rafa starts to battle Fergie for the league now.