PDA

View Full Version : Rosinka?



Mover and Shaker
25-02-2011, 02:12
OK, so what's the deal with Rosinka? Anyone on here live there? Anyone on here know someone who lives there? What's good/bad about it?
Many thanks in advance!!

tvadim133
25-02-2011, 02:45
Pix I have found are quite positive!

But it has better to ask someone on redtape.ru as far as I know.

Prices in Rosinka are not for nurses, it is out of the question.

annasophia
25-02-2011, 02:49
I don't live there but I've been there repeatedly and have known many other people who did live there.

What's your question?

tvadim133
25-02-2011, 02:50
I don't live there but I've been there repeatedly and have known many other people who did live there.

What's your question?

What are disandvantages and advantages of living there, I guess?

For me the first thing came to my mind was prices.

annasophia
25-02-2011, 02:56
Most of the expats who live out there aren't paying for it themselves, it's housing benefit as part of their job package.

To the OP, also if you go up to the search function and type in Rosinka, you'll turn up years worth of posts. Nothing about Rosinka has changed so those posts should be useful.

Mover and Shaker
25-02-2011, 05:33
Thanks so much for this info! I'll try searching for previous posts.

By the way, I am (just) a nurse, but I'm married to someone who is not... ;)

Mover and Shaker
25-02-2011, 05:35
Also, how is redtape.ru different from this forum??

annasophia
25-02-2011, 06:39
Probably the biggest problem with Rosinka is its location: at the end of a dead end road in the middle of nowhere.

It is a gated foreigner compound outside of Mitino. No public transit to speak of. Not within walking distance of anything, it's out in a field.

Most people who find themselves living at Rosinka end up buying a car. That presents a whole new set of problems.

Personally, I wouldn't live in Moscow without being within walking reasonable distance of a Metro station. Rosinka is remote.

pjw
25-02-2011, 11:39
I can imagine that there are very many fearful expats who would like to live in the compound exclusively with other expats, feeling safe, in a non-Russian zone, not open in their minds, not ready to face the normal responsibilities of life, for example, to go to a local produkty to buy their milk and bread (these people will never learn what semechki is/are). Certainly such compounds bring out the worst in western culture. It simply concentrates the worst of everything. I think it must be terrible. But, saying this, I know that there are people that need Rosinka Compound because they don't want to live in a normal way here and wouldn't even know how to start. Rosinkans lack the will to integrate.

It's personal choice, there are very many expats or spouses of expats who are not happy in Russia, who didn't want to come here in the first place, who are not able to live outside the compound, are simply not interested in normal day to day reality, won't learn Russian etc. These people will never take the metro or pass money up and down a marshrutka. I find it sad, not just because they are refusing to live real life in Russia, but rather because, by choosing to live in the expat ghetto, they are narrowing down their choices they never even knew they had.

Threads in which Rosinka is mentioned on forum. (http://www.expat.ru/forum/search.php?searchid=991189)

annasophia
25-02-2011, 13:00
@pjw, I would have loved to say that and more about the cultural deprivation of living in a elitist walled foreigner compound like Rosinka....but didn't feel that the OP was interested in that kind of input.....people make their own decisions for their own reasons.

But to add to your distaste, there is a very popular US website with over a million registered users, which focuses on relocation. I consulted it when moving and follow it from time to time.

Probably the most commonly asked question in any forum for any location is: "Where are the safest neighborhoods with the best schools." Every day I am flabbergasted at the shallowness of people's concerns. Nobody wants to know where interesting stuff is, or where the off-the-wall people hang out, or convenience to concert halls, or areas where one may live an interesting life walking without a car.

They want safe. Our whole world has been brainwashed with some weird kind of affliction which is adverse to adventure and risk and uniqueness, and craves safety above all. And good schools which will make their children geniuses moving into the upper levels of global economics later on.

:emote_popcorn:

Rosinka is indeed safe. People want safe and they are willing to sacrifice experience and reaching out and $5,000 a month to feel safe.

Such is the way things are. To protest against it is spitting into windmills.

tasel
25-02-2011, 16:02
Rosinka is really nice place to live in when you have young kids. They will feel much like they are in hometown. But the big problem is getting in & back from the city due to huge traffic. If your kids will go to AAS they should leave home by 7:30am (atleast). Rosinka has shuttle services to AAS.

pjw
25-02-2011, 17:17
@pjw, I would have loved to say that and more about the cultural deprivation of living in a elitist walled foreigner compound like Rosinka....but didn't feel that the OP was interested in that kind of input.....
To protest against it is spitting into windmills.Correct. Rosinka is cultural deprivation and elitist, snobbery, looking down on locals because they've never met any Russians during their entire stay etc, a mixture of fear or just plain lack of knowledge, unwillingness to confront reality, hiding, cowardness, waking up everyday in a cold sweat, fearing that some big fat Slavic or Kavkaz bogeyman is waiting to get ya. I want to ridicule these prejudices.

I think it's good to tell people who are living in Rosinka that they are not really in Russia and to tell prospective residents that if you choose to live there, that you have chosen the boring option and tell them that they are perhaps limiting their options and decreasing their quality of life. I want people to know that they have choices. I realise that safety is the keyword, but to play on people's fears of the unknown and dangers that are illusionary is misleading. This is just the start of what Rosinka is, an illusion and a lie. This is my life. This is my home. I won't spend it hiding in a compound ghetto.

AstarD
25-02-2011, 18:05
Pjw, you came here of your own volition. That's great. I think many people who choose to live in Rosinka do so because one member of their family was transferred here for a few years. They themselves didn't want to come to Russia or learn Russian. It's a way for them to be with the loved one who had to come here, without having to deal with Russia for the most part.

mrzuzzo
25-02-2011, 18:21
Looks like a nice place to live in, but kind of far... I'd rather live somewhere closer to the metro and public transit like in Alye Parusa, Ostrov Fantazii or something..

xSnoofovich
25-02-2011, 18:24
They want safe. Our whole world has been brainwashed with some weird kind of affliction which is adverse to adventure and risk and uniqueness, and craves safety above all.

If you are moving first time to a country, and are doing research over the internet, it makes sense to ask about, right? Especially if there are small children involved.

The flip side, can you imagine someone asking " please help me find the most dangerous place to live in Moscow. I am in desperate search of adventure, and wish to share a flat with a junkie, alcoholic, a thief, or a violent criminal. etc etc




And good schools which will make their children geniuses moving into the upper levels of global economics later on.


I once had a neighbor girl that was studying to work in the mayonaise factory. Or maybe it was it was a sandwhich factory. I forget now.

pjw
25-02-2011, 18:26
Pjw, you came here of your own volition. That's great. Correct, true. Yes I did.
I think many people who choose to live in Rosinka do so because one member of their family was transferred here for a few years. They themselves didn't want to come to Russia or learn Russian. It's a way for them to be with the loved one who had to come here, without having to deal with Russia for the most part.I agree with you and I understand you. I understand why Rosinka attracts, they are selling safety, but I want to point out that there are other options, not just to cram people like rats into a compound.

Many people are sent abroad and do not want to be there. They are scared stiff. It can put pressure on marriages. People don't need stress. But they should know, firstly, where they are going, into the expat ghetto, and secondly, that they have options, that a normal Moscow suburb is totally fine, that it's possible to get around by public transport, and that there is a good life outside the ghetto walls.

I just want to point out that people do have choices, like where to live etc, and to let people know that Rosinka is an expat ghetto. The Rosinka managers would never tell you this. Therefore I must. ;)

mrzuzzo
25-02-2011, 18:29
I just want to point out that people do have choices, like where to live etc, and to let people know that Rosinka is an expat ghetto. The Rosinka managers would never tell you this. Therefore I must. ;)

From the pictures and description on their website, looks like anything but a ghetto in the popular sense of the word...

I'd rather live there than in my 1-bedroom soviet apartment :D

pjw
25-02-2011, 18:29
I once had a neighbor girl that was studying to work in the mayonaise factory. Or maybe it was it was a sandwhich factory. I forget now.Good, at least she understood that she had options. This is what I'm on about! :)

pjw
25-02-2011, 18:36
From the pictures and description on their website, looks like anything but a ghetto in the popular sense of the word... I'd rather live there than in my 1-bedroom soviet apartment.Good for U. And I am happy not to live in the Expat City Compound, thank you very much.

I don't need expats, I don't (knowingly) live near expats. I see my friends, some of whom are expats, if and when I want to, but this idea that we must be among our own people is pure Lemming-ism! :)

senti
25-02-2011, 22:44
i live in rosinka for 1 year,rosinka is a very nice place,safe and comfortable to to live,and more live there is expat family from other country too and people are nice ,for kids have many park there and school inside of village,and also have minimarket and clinic too,thats nice place.

annasophia
25-02-2011, 23:16
i live in rosinka for 1 year,rosinka is a very nice place,safe and comfortable to to live,and more live there is expat family from other country too and people are nice ,for kids have many park there and school inside of village,and also have minimarket and clinic too,thats nice place.


Exhibit A.

Mover and Shaker
26-02-2011, 21:57
Thanks everyone for sharing your opinions and experiences. This is definitely the kind of information I'm looking for! I tend to feel that Rosinka may not be the place for us since I mostly agree with pjw and others who are skeptical of the value of isolating themselves from the local culture and population. But I understand that for some people it's the only way they could live in Russia. To each their own!

MickeyTong
27-02-2011, 02:49
By the way, I am (just) a nurse, but I'm married to someone who is not... ;)

Hey! Me too! :10220: But my wife can't afford a house in a gated community....

MickeyTong
27-02-2011, 03:04
Rosinka is indeed safe. People want safe and they are willing to sacrifice experience and reaching out and $5,000 a month to feel safe.



So it's nothing like Super-Cannes by J G Ballard?

tvadim133
27-02-2011, 03:11
T
By the way, I am (just) a nurse, but I'm married to someone who is not... ;)

I did not want to offend anyhow, it is out of the question, but now I see that it sounded like that indeed!

Sorry!

pjw
27-02-2011, 17:46
Thanks everyone for sharing your opinions and experiences. This is definitely the kind of information I'm looking for! I tend to feel that Rosinka may not be the place for us since I mostly agree with pjw and others who are skeptical of the value of isolating themselves from the local culture and population. But I understand that for some people it's the only way they could live in Russia. To each their own!With this attitude, Mover and Shaker, I can see that you'll have a great time in Russia. I can already see that you are really open to it! ;)

I also did not wish to offend anybody. I just wanted everybody, especially newcomers, to know that they have options. Living in Rosinka, a closed and gated community is one of those options, but not the only one. Living in the Russian suburbs is fine, everything you need, shops, facilities, services, whatever, huge malls, better than anything in America or Europe, Australia or Britain, a clean and easy to use metro, no need to have a driver. I must admit that before my parents visited me in Moscow last year, they thought people had to line up for bread for hours everyday. I told them it wasn't like that anymore. They said it's because I was an expat, not local. Misinformation. Media. People who haven't lived here have no experience and this means that they have lots of fear and plenty of imagination of dangers and gloomy certainty that it'll be a nightmare over here, but, in reality, it's just through a lack of knowledge. It's great here. Absolutely nothing to worry about.

But I don't like the gated compound people playing on people's insecurities, using the newcomers' lack of experience and creating a scenario where the newcomer imagines fear and inability to cope. That's not fair, that's using people and abusing their trust, misleading, telling them that expats can only be safe in a gated community, it's just ridiculous. As a result, these people never meet locals, never have a chance to integrate and are in a sense trapped, isolated, with a lot of other people who lack knowledge, who are also fearful, who, without meaning to label, are essentially weak and, put all these people concentrated in a community and it's one very dirty fishbowl. What these people don't know is that they have options to live in a regular local community and not safe behind the electrical fence next to some other loony expats.

Mover and Shaker
27-02-2011, 18:51
Mickey, are you by any chance a psych nurse?? Just guessing... In any case, I am! Do you work in Moscow?

So having narrowed down our living options to "probably not Rosinka" that still leaves a lot of other options! I can see why people might choose an expat gated community just for the ease of decision making. Lack of knowledge is not a comfortable thing!

pjw
27-02-2011, 18:54
My rant........

It weighs heavily on my heart that some people living in this country are not opening themselves up as fully as possible to the local culture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvDP9awhXLg&feature=related

Ruth123
27-02-2011, 22:16
My rant........

It weighs heavily on my heart that some people living in this country are not opening themselves up as fully as possible to the local culture.


While i agree with you on Rosinka's of the world... For goodness sake, what was that?! :yuk:

Btw, a great reading on the subject (nevertheless historically placed far earlier by the author) is Ivo Andric's 'Chronicles of Travnik', where he describes different attitudes of various foreign consuls in the godforsaken small city in than Ottoman Empire... the only one who 'makes it' (remains sane and in good spirits) is the guy who gets involved in the local culture, studies the language, learns about the local plants etc.
I was recommended this book before we had moved to a country (not Russia) where i thought i'd go nuts as i couldn't relate to the local culture ... and i must say that he, like, saved me with that - i dived into that culture that seemed so repulsive at start, learned the language, made friends, traveled extensively and that turned out to be one of the best periods of my life;
some others... i pitied them, they spent all the time behaving as if the locals had plague and they could get infected... very sad existence, even if really excellently paid for... no one can pay you enough to trade off your life methinks. ;)

Ivo Andrić - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Andric_Ivo.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Andric_Ivo.jpg/240px-Andric_Ivo.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/6/6a/Andric_Ivo.jpg/240px-Andric_Ivo.jpg

pjw
27-02-2011, 23:05
... the only one who 'makes it' (remains sane and in good spirits) is the guy who gets involved in the local culture, studies the language, learns about the local plants etc.I can understand this and I like this idea that the one who is energised by the local culture, its people, its customs, its ways, is somehow ultimately rewarded. But we can't blame some people who are just not into this, it's their decision afterall, they can choose what turns them on, if it's same old same old, hanging out with people of the same mindset, meeting fellow country wo/men then, by all means, they should.

I was recommended this book before we had moved to a country (not Russia) where i thought i'd go nuts as i couldn't relate to the local cultureIt certainly can be hard at first, there are all the different shapes and forms of culture shock, loneliness, maybe even hating a new country, not wanting to mix in, depression, homesickness, desparation, mania, addiction, insanity.... However, I don't believe that this excuses such villages as Rosinka, their purpose to recreate and imitate the home country and spread fear and the idea that life outside the wall is unsafe and unbearable. This mentality prevents people thinking and makes them codependent and easy to be manipulated, turning them into clones.
... and i must say that he, like, saved me with that - i dived into that culture that seemed so repulsive at start, learned the language, made friends, traveled extensively and that turned out to be one of the best periods of my life;Credit to you Ruth, you chose to dive into life, made a conscious decision to remain aware, to face challenges and not to withdraw and hide.

some others... i pitied them, they spent all the time behaving as if the locals had plague and they could get infected... very sad existence, even if really excellently paid for... no one can pay you enough to trade off your life methinks. Yes, it'd be a huge price to pay, to give up one's life, to sacrifice well-being, to stop feeling. Their fear must be enormous and overwhelming.

MickeyTong
28-02-2011, 05:50
Mickey, are you by any chance a psych nurse?? Just guessing... In any case, I am! Do you work in Moscow?


I am indeed. But I work on a Scottish island. (Have you seen the "salaries" nurses get in Russia?)

jask
28-02-2011, 06:22
the same one leonardo dicaprio was on?


I am indeed. But I work on a Scottish island. (Have you seen the "salaries" nurses get in Russia?)

MickeyTong
28-02-2011, 12:27
the same one leonardo dicaprio was on?

No.......Shutter Island is across The Pond.

Mover and Shaker
01-03-2011, 03:05
I haven't seen the "salaries" you speak of, but I can imagine I'm better off that way. Hoping to find a job in an American/expat setting that might not be quite so dismal. Did you ever work as a nurse in Russia, Mickey?

MickeyTong
01-03-2011, 16:25
Did you ever work as a nurse in Russia, Mickey?

I am delighted to report that I have never had that misfortune.

I will be back
01-03-2011, 16:57
http://medvestnik.ru/1/0/24185.html
nurses get in Russia "salaries" about $700 per month

mrzuzzo
01-03-2011, 18:01
http://medvestnik.ru/1/0/24185.html
nurses get in Russia "salaries" about $700 per month

In Moscow, or in Russia??

Let's be realistic here, nurses in Russia get around $400 a month if that!

Mover and Shaker
06-03-2011, 19:25
Russian Nurses, I'm sorry.

senti
07-03-2011, 00:12
i live there before in almost one year.

martpark
07-03-2011, 00:16
Shutter Island's not a bad place to live. Good view from the Lighthouse.

MickeyTong
07-03-2011, 00:26
Shutter Island's not a bad place to live. Good view from the Lighthouse.

.....even if you're not sure who you are.

czdkch
14-03-2011, 14:07
OK, so what's the deal with Rosinka? Anyone on here live there? Anyone on here know someone who lives there? What's good/bad about it?
Many thanks in advance!!
Hello!
I live on Rosinka and I'm not ashamed of it!!

There is a good shuttle bus service to the metro station so you can be in the centre in about 45 mins. The metro is excellent.

Rosinka is like living in a 'bubble' however, for my children it is paradise. I guess that it is up to you make the effort to get into the centre, visit other cities, make Russian friends .
To be fair, different expatriates have different priorities at different stages of their lives.
We have lived in other countries without any foreigners nearby, no-one speaking English and no International schools. We learnt the languages, integrated and made friends and had a fabulous time. However, at this stage of our lives/career/children's ages, Rosinka suits us best.
If you would like to ask specific questions then I will be happy to help - please pm me.

Ruth123
14-03-2011, 14:17
Hello!
I live on Rosinka and I'm not ashamed of it!!
Lol, why would you be?
I think in this thread we used 'Rosinka' metaphorically (at least i did), more to describe an attitude than the actual place where some of our Forum members live.
Cool people can live just about anywhere, they are still cool, you aren't automatically considered a discriminative snob if you prefer this surrounding for your kids.
Btw, thumbs up for speaking up - and once again, i personally, haven't ever been to the area, was using the name pejoratively to describe an attitude that some people have - whether they live in Rosinka, in a historical center or in the suburbs.
Of course that once you have kids they become a priority - and thanks goodness its like that.

pjw
14-03-2011, 14:39
I'm not ashamed to live in Rosinka. Rosinka is like living in a 'bubble' ......I hear you, I hear you and thanks for speaking up, it's good to hear attitudes, although I've never even been to Rosinka Compound because, at this stage in my life, I hate seeing foreign stuff coming into Russia and becoming popular, spreading like a disease, I dislike McDonalds, all that junk and everything else that represents Western greed and ignorance.

martpark
14-03-2011, 14:41
I hear you, I hear you and thanks for speaking up, it's good to hear attitudes, although I've never even been to Rosinka Compound because, at this stage in my life, I hate seeing foreign stuff coming into Russia and becoming popular, spreading like a disease, I dislike McDonalds, all that junk and everything else that represents Western greed and ignorance.
Is Eastern greed and ignorance much better?

pjw
14-03-2011, 14:45
Is Eastern greed and ignorance much better?Good point Martpark, but I only see Eastern greed when I'm flying over massive villas behind huge walls at Rubelovka. I chose not to live there. Where I live is just normal people.

Ruth123
14-03-2011, 14:47
I dislike McDonalds

Me too and i'm glad we don't have it here (we have our share of fast food - but what we call fast is a grilled piece of meat - from an animal that grew up eating grass at the nearest meadow.)
Not that an occasional meal or two at McD would hurt you that much - but i've seen my share of desperate parents and hysterical kids who wanted to eat exclusively there... and i saw obese Chinese kids - in a nation that hardly ever had obese people - munching on their 2nd in row big Mac... disgusting.

pjw
14-03-2011, 15:00
......desperate parents and hysterical kids.........Where we live there isn't McDonalds. I mean, if you really wanted you could get a minivan or bus. What I dislike is kids and adults brainwashed into preferring McDonalds over good local options, in the same way that I see newcomers to Moscow brainwashed that the only option for living an acceptable life with standard lifestyle is Rosinka. It is a lie, but their innocence and naivety prevents them seeing that and, in effect, they are blatantly lied to, used, misled, and misinformed. But they needn't care, the company's paying for it. :snoring:

Ruth123
14-03-2011, 15:01
Good point Martpark, but I only see Eastern greed when I'm flying over massive villas behind huge walls at Rubelovka. I chose not to live there. Where I live is just normal people.

Hmmm... i had an interesting discussion with someone at my Uni recently; they were speaking harshly of ex Moscow mayor's wife, how she did this and that thanks to his connections... I agree, its bad, but the conclusion this presumably intelligent and educated lady i spoke to made - shocked me; she said ' and where do i get such money and such connections'?!
So it wasn't the judgement of inherently vicious human trait - GREED - but the mere envy of not being in that person's place...
I think GREED is the same, Eastern or Western, sadly its universal.
It is inherent to a certain young age and some personal romanticism to idealize the poor - being educated in communist system i was thought to admire working class... but the truth is that mostly philosophy and good manners start where the belly seizes to be empty...
Myself, i am a writer, i don't have a class at all because in my world its not about material goods ( people who are my role models poets, novelists, Kabbalists, mostly live on the edge of poverty), and i know its not pc to speak of classes in the first places, but they exist and honestly, i've witnessed far more discrimination from people who had less towards those who have more and a lot - than the other way around...

Ruth123
14-03-2011, 15:03
It is a lie, but their innocence and naivety prevents them seeing that and, in effect, they are blatantly lied to, used, misled, and misinformed.

Pjw, i hold your posts in highest possible regard, but in this case i respectfully disagree.

xSnoofovich
14-03-2011, 15:16
What I dislike is kids and adults brainwashed into preferring McDonalds over good local options....

For you, this is something that is old and boring.

For many people, this is something that is new, and a treat.

Or,

This is something that is affordable. Many salaries are low, and people work hard, so in order to be able to relax and offer their children a treat, they choose McDonalds.

Plus, it is foreign, and somewhat exotic.

If you want a change, try eating lunch or dinner at MuMu's everyday for a year.

See what excites your palate after this experiment. A little McDonald's will do you good.

MickeyTong
14-03-2011, 16:39
...... but I only see Eastern greed when I'm flying over massive villas behind huge walls at Rubelovka.

Do you fly and service your own helicopter, or do you employ a full-time team to do those menial things for you?

pjw
14-03-2011, 20:50
Do you fly and service your own helicopter, or do you employ a full-time team to do those menial things for you?Here's me trying to find some reference point, either McDonalds or Rosinka, Rubelovka, MKAD, Red Square, Luzhniki Stadium, anywhere, somewhere, just anything familiar, just a safe open space to land!
19787

senti
14-03-2011, 23:45
its a very nice and comfortable to live,i live there for almost 1 years and i really like rosinka...that for my opinion!!

pjw
15-03-2011, 23:45
its a very nice and comfortable to live,i live there for almost 1 years and i really like rosinka...that for my opinion!!Why do you like it so much Senti? Are the people nice? Do any local people live there or just expats? If U don't mind me asking, what do U like most about Rosinka? Were you ever disappointed in the place?

ezik
16-03-2011, 00:21
I think that there are as much nice people in Rosinka as outside of it. Rosinka, to me, is not that "elitnye". Most homes in Rosinka are, at best, comparable to regular middle-class homes in Western Europe. Rosinka isn't exceptional quality. It's OK, but not spectacular. If I were an expat having to move to Moscow without having any particular affection, it would be the place I would have on my short-list.

I know Moscow and that's why I think that there are cheaper and much better places to live than Rosinka (especially if you look at travel times). But not everyone who moves here does. And in their position, I would consider Rosinka.

Just got some offers to do work in Kazakhstan. If I would move there with the wife and kids, I'd definitely go for their local Rosinka, as I don't know the country at all.

pjw
16-03-2011, 00:35
Just got some offers to do work in Kazakhstan. If I would move there with the wife and kids, I'd definitely go for their local Rosinka, as I don't know the country at all.It's true Ezik, yeah, it's the easy option, but if we have no time and, let's consider realistically, nobody has time. It could be the best option for someone who doesn't care or who doesn't want to see Moscow. But for me, I want to see Moscow. I think I've explained enough in detail on this thread how I feel. I just hate these guys who make people paranoid and say only Rosinka. It is great living in normal Moscow. Anyone who says it's bad living in normal Moscow is just stirring paranoia & trying to make money out of ignorant newbies. I have an issue with that.

ezik
16-03-2011, 00:50
Making money out of newbies is the issue indeed. Rosinka is very much like charging expats thousands of dollars for importing furniture. It's a scheme aimed at making as much money as possible from the ignorating Expat. It is a profitable business, at the same time it is really a disgrace to the image of Russia as a modernised country.


It's true Ezik, yeah, it's the easy option, but if we have no time and, let's consider realistically, nobody has time. It could be the best option for someone who doesn't care or who doesn't want to see Moscow. But for me, I want to see Moscow. I think I've explained enough in detail on this thread how I feel. I just hate these guys who make people paranoid and say only Rosinka. It is great living in normal Moscow. Anyone who says it's bad living in normal Moscow is just stirring paranoia & trying to make money out of ignorant newbies. I have an issue with that.

xSnoofovich
16-03-2011, 10:37
It could be the best option for someone who doesn't care or who doesn't want to see Moscow. But for me, I want to see Moscow..


Congrats, you are now more Russian than Russian.

xSnoofovich
16-03-2011, 10:39
It is a profitable business, at the same time it is really a disgrace to the image of Russia as a modernised country.

That is right.

Because everyone knows that foreigners are:

a) rich

or

b) stupid

c) rich and stupid

xSnoofovich
16-03-2011, 10:43
Anyone who says it's bad living in normal Moscow is just stirring paranoia & trying to make money out of ignorant newbies. I have an issue with that.

How long have you lived here, btw?

How many apartments have you rented?

Do you prefer to live in the center, or more towards the outskirts of Moscow, and why?

Do you feel you are able to fully function in Moscow, without any help from the locals?

How is your Russian? As a teacher of English, you do make around what - 30k RUB a month, right? Since the going rate for a Russian English teacher is about 300 RUB an hour?

How many times have you actually been outside of Moscow?

pjw
16-03-2011, 14:57
How long have you lived here, btw?
I think what we need to look at first is whether it actually makes any difference how long we've been somewhere or lived in a specific place. It may be rather shortsighted to start trying to measure our knowledge of a place in years or number of times we have been there. This could misleading, to start saying you'd lived here for 10 and that beats my 1.5. Are you trying to do this? This can make the questioner appear shortsighted, naive and immature to seem like they are comparing. Be careful, you may risk being totally immersed in your own ego. Are you trying to turn this into a contest or crow about how long you've lived here and how much you know? Or that you know things better than others do? I haven't claimed to know everything, I only said people have choices and should keep their heads up. Be honest, what are you trying to do? To compare? To come out on top?
How many apartments have you rented? Just the one, although I have lived in more places than just the present rented flat. I've lived in many different countries and rented more flats than the total number of times you've had your index finger sticking up your nose you bozo. Why are you asking the question? You have quite the nerve. You want to say I should move into Rosinka Compound?
Do you prefer to live in the center, or more towards the outskirts of Moscow, and why?Moscow Region, although it takes time to get there, it's more peaceful, feels more relaxed, I come home to my space I know, everything is slower. Feels like difference between New York and Kansas, although I've never been to the US. It's not Rubelovka though mind, in fact, it's the opposite of Rubelovka. I imagine living Downtown must be convenient, but a bit stressy, though less money on taxi fares. You know how it is yourself, you're out, it gets late, last metro goes and you stay on at whatever boozer you happen to be in.
Do you feel you are able to fully function in Moscow, without any help from the locals?I don't quite know how to judge if one is fully functioning, living up to our full potential? Perhaps, I'm too lazy to do this on any kind of continuous basis. I just try to relax. Quite frankly, I gave up trying to function many years ago, I won't share the reasons or details, but trying to function in the expected, normal, full way is really rather tiresome, but if you insist on doing it, go right ahead, be my guest. The question how locals could help, I don't get what you mean. I usually stay invisible with my mouth shut. But I have friends.
How is your Russian? As a teacher of English, you do make around what - 30k RUB a month, right? Since the going rate for a Russian English teacher is about 300 RUB an hour?My Russian is still pretty small, I try my best, lessons, living in a Russian family helps, my daughter, my mum, my good wife, but one gets by, as you know yourself. You have a slight nerve to start talking about my job and how much I earn. How absolutely pretentious of you! I don't understand your point here now. Tell me what you mean to say please.
How many times have you actually been outside of Moscow?Difficult to say, what's your definition of outside Moscow? Working 7 days a week doesn't really leave the extra time for the little trips to Makachkala or Altay. What's your point? Should I be getting out more?

This thread is about Rosinka. Get back on topic.

xSnoofovich
16-03-2011, 15:12
This thread is about Rosinka. Get back on topic.

The topic changed to you blasting some filipina nanny who happens to feel comfortable living near her clients with a full broadside, with a little bit of general rage thrown in for good measure.

pjw
16-03-2011, 15:20
The topic changed to you blasting some filipina nanny who happens to feel comfortable living near her clients with a full broadside, with a little bit of general rage thrown in for good measure.No, with all respect, you are mistaken Snoof. I did not do this. Show me where I did this.

AstarD
16-03-2011, 16:32
It certainly felt that way after your first post. First impressions say a lot.

I can imagine that there are very many fearful expats who would like to live in the compound exclusively with other expats, feeling safe, in a non-Russian zone, not open in their minds, not ready to face the normal responsibilities of life, for example, to go to a local produkty to buy their milk and bread (these people will never learn what semechki is/are). Certainly such compounds bring out the worst in western culture. It simply concentrates the worst of everything. I think it must be terrible. But, saying this, I know that there are people that need Rosinka Compound because they don't want to live in a normal way here and wouldn't even know how to start. Rosinkans lack the will to integrate.

It's personal choice, there are very many expats or spouses of expats who are not happy in Russia, who didn't want to come here in the first place, who are not able to live outside the compound, are simply not interested in normal day to day reality, won't learn Russian etc. These people will never take the metro or pass money up and down a marshrutka. I find it sad, not just because they are refusing to live real life in Russia, but rather because, by choosing to live in the expat ghetto, they are narrowing down their choices they never even knew they had.

Ruth123
16-03-2011, 16:48
I get it that pjw is against the idea of some gated community which he sees as paranoid distortion of Russian reality, on which some crooks are making crazy money by manipulating people who live there into believing that outside world is harmful and dangerous - BUT he does say that he has never been to the actual place, so basically its his righteous rage against something as he presumes it is... which again does not come down to condemning the actual place and real people who live there.

And i need to get a break from my studies... :p

pjw
16-03-2011, 18:50
It certainly felt that way after your first post. First impressions say a lot.Respectfully AstarD, do you disagree with what I said? Which bits?

czdkch
16-03-2011, 19:34
There are an awful lot of generalisations and assumptions made on this thread!

Speaking as a Rosinkonian(!) I can say that the majority of people I know living here chose Rosinka for the facilities and NOT because of safety.

I know it is crazy money and it would be less money to live in an apartment in the city - or a Russian settlement outside the city if you want a house but when making the decision we looked at:

space
forest next to compound
sports facilities
clubs / organised activities / lessons for children
organised activities and interest groups for adults
shuttle bus + metro to centre
infrastructure where everything 'works' or is fixed hassle free
cleaner air
freedom for children to roam and play with friends - no roads to cross
beach / lake for summer
ice rink

the safety element was not an issue - I have never felt unsafe in Moscow - on the metro - wandering around etc.

Of course you have a few people here who want to do their 'time' and get out without exploring the country and it's people - that's their choice and I don't think it is up to others to be dismissive and judgemental. I am sure there are plenty of people with that attitude in the city too - and if budgets allowed they would rather live in a gated community.

As I said earlier, we have lived in other countries with local people and have explored, developed, integrated and enjoyed the richness of these cultures.
We speak several different languages - my 12 yr old speaks 5.
However, I don't think you can say that just because we had the 'local experience' doesn't mean that it was better or worse than those who mixed with the international communities and attended all the charity balls!

My life is about getting different experiences - stories to tell my grandchildren! Living on Rosinka and doing the 'expat community / charity ball etc. thing' is something new to us and we are having a great time - we don't forget we are in Russia though and have travelled a bit, speak Russian (to a greater/lesser extent) and have some Russian friends.

The only thing I am scared of in Russia is driving - and I'm not alone.

Stop being so damning in your judgement of other people's choices!

pjw
16-03-2011, 20:34
Stop being so damning in your judgement of other people's choices!I agree with you.

Let's agree to disagree. Did you choose Rosinka? Or did you think it was the only option? Listen, it was the best choice for you and it's the best choice for many. Let's be honest, what you've listed are what many people want, these are the things that many people are looking for. But in saying this, Rosinka's not for me. What do ther people think? Most people living there are happy, is this correct? :agree:

AstarD
17-03-2011, 11:00
Respectfully AstarD, do you disagree with what I said? Which bits?

I disagree with you assuming (remember what you do when you assume: you make an ass out of you and me) that people who chose to live in Rosinka are living in the worst of western culture. What's so bad about living in typical suburban single-family homes?
I disagree that because people live in Rosinka, it means they don't want to live in a "normal way" (what is normal? only your way of life?) here and wouldn't even know how to start. I disagree that Rosinkans lack the will to integrate. They may do so in many other ways than living in your definition of normal.

I disagree with your assertion that these people will never take the metro or pass money up and down a marshrutka.

And I think you are limiting other people's reality to your own when you say they are refusing to live "real life" in Russia.

You remind me of the way people say "Moscow isn't Russia". Well, it sure the hell isn't Birmingham or Cleveland, is it?

xSnoofovich
17-03-2011, 11:15
Well, it isn't Birmingham or Cleveland, is it?

Whoa... someone actually wants to live in Cleveland? :jawdrop:

xSnoofovich
17-03-2011, 11:33
What do ther people think?

I think that most people go in stages.

When I first came to Russia, I lived in the obshaga (student dormitory). It was good. I was even the "rich" kid there, I had my own room ! ( about the size of my clothes closet back home in the US, whereas there were up to 6 people in other rooms).

But, it was dirt cheap, and there were always lots of people around to school me in the ways of living in motha rasha.

Downside:

Babooshkas on every floor watching where you go, and who you go with. Who comes to your room, and what you are doing there. Drunk people breaking things. Poor people always asking for money, (it isn't their fault they are students, but still). The super crappy broken soviet furniture. Asking for a propiska for visitors, making them wait. Having a curfew. Begging the floor monitors to open up the kitchen @ 9 at night so I can cook dinner. Listening to loud music. The basic drama of being 18-25 and listening to the problems that people have at that age, and so on and so forth.

Upside:
Cheap rent. Young girls fresh from the provinces. Lots of guys to drink with. Something always to do.

After awhile, I got my own apartment, and although I still went back to and missed the obshaga life, I couldn't move back there for anything. Even if the rent is $100 for 6 months.


So, to conclude, what was good and exciting at the time, no longer holds any interest for me.

Ruth123
17-03-2011, 11:49
After awhile, I got my own apartment, and although I still went back to and missed the obshaga life, I couldn't move back there for anything. Even if the rent is $100 for 6 months.

Its 400 usd per month for a single room at Pushkin campus. Alcohol is forbidden, so is smoking - except in couple of places. Folks who get caught drinking/smoking get expelled. (Not to mention breaking anything.)
You pass three security controls before entering the campus - its impossible to get inside unless you live there and/or unless a guest (need special permission.)
Cameras are everywhere, so are the signs that the whole place is being video-monitored 24/7.
There are no babushkas on the floors, but there is security everywhere.
Ohh, the kitchens are open until midnight, you have your own bathroom and the cleaning lady on every floor. Apart from cleaning, they change and wash your sheets and towels; also you have washing 'service' that does your clothes and stuff - that's paid additionally but is worth it.
More or less its like 3 star hotel by European standards.
eta: the people who live there are mostly Middle Eastern and Asians - Japanese, Korean, Chinese, quite few Russians and Europeans generally.

forgot to add - wifi in every room, free gym, inside shops - so you don't have to go out when its too cold (its far more expensive than nearby 7oy kontinent but still), Dr available 24/7 - but you pay insurance separately for that, some 200 usd (or euros, don't remember - but in that range) for 6 months, inside bars and express restaurant .
Also, souvenir shops and all the services - fax, xerox etc.

xSnoofovich
17-03-2011, 11:52
Ya ya ya. Your experiance doesn't sound half-bad !

Check out the prices and accommodations at MGU. :)



Its 400 usd per month for a single room at Pushkin campus. Alcohol is forbidden, so is smoking - except in couple of places. Folks who get caught drinking/smoking get expelled. (Not to mention breaking anything.)
You pass three security controls before entering the campus - its impossible to get inside unless you live there and/or unless a guest (need special permission.)
Cameras are everywhere, so are the signs that the whole place is being video-monitored 24/7.
There are no babushkas on the floors, but there is security everywhere.
Ohh, the kitchens are open until midnight, you have your own bathroom and the cleaning lady on every floor. Apart from cleaning, they change and wash your sheets and towels; also you have washing 'service' that does your clothes and stuff - that's paid additionally but is worth it.
More or less its like 3 star hotel by European standards.

Ruth123
17-03-2011, 12:06
Ya ya ya. Your experiance doesn't sound half-bad !


Its ok. The advantage of Pushkin is that its a closed campus - you don't have to go out in order to get from your place to the administrative building for lectures, honestly - that's why i choose it because there is no way i'd travel in -25 to the uni for an 1.30h from the center and then back, i know myself better than that. ;)

pjw
17-03-2011, 15:35
I disagree with you assuming (remember what you do when you assume: you make an ass out of you and me) I'm reading a book at the moment that has this quote in it.
that people who chose to live in Rosinka are living in the worst of western culture. What's so bad about living in typical suburban single-family homes?I think alot of what I was going on about was my own misinformation or lack of it. I am ignorant of Rosinka itself. I have no information about it, only my preconceptions and imagination. Maybe my attitudes are also coming from jealousy to a certain extent. Let's just say my lack of info and lack of compassion, lack of understanding why people go to Rosinka. I just didn't want to hear people saying Rosinka is the only option for people coming to live in Russia, but, in saying that, I know it's wrong of me to judge those that live there and I apologise for that.
I disagree that because people live in Rosinka, it means they don't want to live in a "normal way" (what is normal? only your way of life?) here and wouldn't even know how to start. I disagree that Rosinkans lack the will to integrate. They may do so in many other ways than living in your definition of normal.I suppose that Rosinka is a small microcosm of the world, that there are many people that want to integrate and those that don't, however by living in a gated community, they are limiting themselves, whether they know it or not, I mean, I don't think they live in Rosinka in order to integrate, nobody could say that with any honesty, so they don't want to integrate, good, they have other things on their minds, they simply don't want to, but it isn't my right or place to judge. It's none of my business. How I view life, and what my definition of normal is, well, I've got no right to put this onto others. I don't know why I did this. Maybe some kind of insecurity on my own part, my rage at elitism, conformity and snobbery, I don't know, however this was definitely the wrong address for such rantings. I can see that now and I'm sorry.
I disagree with your assertion that these people will never take the metro or pass money up and down a marshrutka.

And I think you are limiting other people's reality to your own when you say they are refusing to live "real life" in Russia.I agree. I agree. Firstly, I shouldn't judge people and secondly I should take off my personal blinkers and let other people live. Let them live where they want and how they want. We must remember that these people have feelings and take into account that many don't find it easy in a foreign country and many don't even want to be here. I wonder why I was being so judgemental? I forgot that we're talking about real people here, I really forgot the people, I depersonalised it all, made the place into some kind of object, without considering that real people live there, with feelings, with their individual stories and reasons why they came here and their longing for a comfortable normal safe life in the way they wanted it, so they could just get on and live in peace, and a happy family life. I don't even know the place, have never been there. I couldn't even find Rosinka on the map, and I'm normally good at Geography, I just thought it was some kind of elite Rubelovka style retirement village type luxury villa complex for rich expats, living the high life. That's what was making me mad, I thought these people were snobs, exclusivists, looking down on locals, thinking we were dirty scum. A friend of mine told me last week that what I was saying was wrong. She said I was just mouthing off, she's right. But I thought these people in Rosinka were going round with their drivers, blue lights on top, causing traffic jams and never going to normal shops. I really wanted to inform people that life elsewhere is not bad and really a good option too. But I mouthed off too much and offended people, judged them, just made a huge ass out of myself and I'm sorry about that.
You remind me of the way people say "Moscow isn't Russia". Well, it sure the hell isn't Birmingham or Cleveland, is it?I wish U continued happy times here.
I think that most people go in stages. When I first came to Russia, I lived in the obshaga (student dormitory)...... This option is not what these people with young families are interested in.

Mover and Shaker
17-03-2011, 17:51
Wow, I kind of lost the thread of this, um, thread since I haven't checked the forum in a few days, but seems it's still alive and kicking! Having sort of caught up by reading the last post, I just wanted to commend pjw for doing a complete 180 and becoming so open-minded! ;) Who knew you had it in ya?! I'm kidding of course because I really don't know you at all, but I did think it was generous of you to acknowledge the other poster's point of view, etc. Just my 2 cents worth... :)

duckymoo
19-03-2011, 17:29
PJW I am glad you listened to what I said the other day and no i do no live on Rosinka but I do work in the school there and spend most of my time in the compund.

I think Rosinka is a great place for families the facilities are great and as previously stated there are so many benifits. I wish I had all of thos things on my door step as it happens i live in the heart of Moscow and have to deal with all the issues an expat has to face and it can be quite scary especially when you have minimal russian.

All I can say everybody makes their choices for a reason and it should be respected and don't judge places and people you don't know.

MickeyTong
19-03-2011, 20:25
C'mon, dish the dirt......is it anything like Wisteria Lane???????

martpark
20-03-2011, 12:59
C'mon, dish the dirt......is it anything like Wisteria Lane???????

Possibly Stepford, Connecticut.

pjw
21-03-2011, 18:48
Wow, I kind of lost the thread of this, um, thread since I haven't checked the forum in a few days, but seems it's still alive and kicking! Having sort of caught up by reading the last post, I just wanted to commend pjw for doing a complete 180 and becoming so open-minded! ;) Who knew you had it in ya?! I'm kidding of course because I really don't know you at all, but I did think it was generous of you to acknowledge the other poster's point of view, etc. Just my 2 cents worth... :)It was not really a perfect 180 degree turn, Mover and Shaker, in fact it ended up being more like a dumb belly flop with a big splash at the end. I was talking about some place I'd never even been to. :o
PJW I am glad you listened to what I said the other day and no i do no live on Rosinka but I do work in the school there and spend most of my time in the compund.

I think Rosinka is a great place for families the facilities are great and as previously stated there are so many benifits. I wish I had all of thos things on my door step as it happens i live in the heart of Moscow and have to deal with all the issues an expat has to face and it can be quite scary especially when you have minimal russian.

All I can say everybody makes their choices for a reason and it should be respected and don't judge places and people you don't know.Very much respect your opinion Ducky. At the moment I'm changing my opinion about the place or at least becoming more open. It's a bit like Brideshead Revisited I can imagine, children riding ponies, fairs and balls. It must be lovely. Is it possible to visit, just for the afternoon? I was thinking I imagine I may wish to paint, sitting by a pond. How is the light in the afternoon in early Spring? Is it pretty?

xSnoofovich
21-03-2011, 18:58
Is it possible to visit, just for the afternoon?

No, not for you.

We have standards.

However, you are welcome to visit our newest residence project @ Butova, which you may find might be more to your liking, and budget friendly.

duckymoo
22-03-2011, 05:40
It is a really nice compund and from what I know the people enjoy living there. I think it may be hard at times as you know everyone and everyone knows you.

PJW I would doubt you would be able to visit for an afternoon as It is hard to gain access unless you are a residence or an employee

pjw
22-03-2011, 15:47
It is a really nice compund.....Perhaps they have a pond, it could be possible to fish there, perhaps for ornamental carp, or an open area to be used as some kind of temporary golf fairway, it just needs to be long and open, don't worry, I'll bring balls, clubs etc. How about some kind of closed woodland area where one could hunt? Surely these kind of amenities are provided. Thank you.

AstarD
22-03-2011, 15:54
PJW, it's not a country club. It's a housing development.

xSnoofovich
22-03-2011, 16:35
PJW, it's not a country club. It's a housing development.

He is just taking the pi55.

czdkch
23-03-2011, 08:03
Perhaps they have a pond, it could be possible to fish there, perhaps for ornamental carp, or an open area to be used as some kind of temporary golf fairway, it just needs to be long and open, don't worry, I'll bring balls, clubs etc. How about some kind of closed woodland area where one could hunt? Surely these kind of amenities are provided. Thank you.

PJW - actually there is a lake rather than a pond and yes, one can fish however I don't think anything one catches can be described as ornamental. Then again, there is a jolly fetching fountain in the centre.

For golf - I'm afraid one has to go to Moscow Country Club - however, that would mean leaving the safe and cosy confines of Rosinka which may be just a little too scary...

One tends only to use the forest for cross country skiing and healthy wholesome walks, toasting marshmallows and jolly picnics.
No hunting - although the sound of guns could just be some of the 'wild locals' outside Rosinka fighting...


Sorry to disappoint PJW - not really Brideshead - more Centreparcs :-)

pjw
23-03-2011, 12:55
........would mean leaving the safe and cosy confines of Rosinka which may be just a little too scary.......:iagree: Come on CZDKCH, surely U're just pulling my leg right? I don't imagine U're scared to leave Rosinka. I think you feel good both inside and outside. Really, the place sounds wonderful, very normal, always interesting, quite pleasant, all the things we've mentioned above. Lots of advantages, sounds like good people, lots of fun, a real community spirit!

pjw
23-03-2011, 13:12
PJW, it's not a country club. It's a housing development.Not like housing development back home. I should well imagine that is most definitely not the case in Rosinka. :9451: We're only talking here about them types with cl**** manners, educashion, as my parents would say, them folks with proper breeding, not just with the high noses but real gentlemen and fine-styled ladies like what's on tv and films.:SwoonLoveSmiley:

xSnoofovich
23-03-2011, 13:30
.....them folks with proper breeding, not just with the high noses but real gentlemen and fine-styled ladies like what's on tv and films.::

:)

Ruth123
23-03-2011, 13:41
Not like housing development back home. I should well imagine that is most definitely not the case in Rosinka. :9451: We're only talking here about them types with cl**** manners, educashion, as my parents would say, them folks with proper breeding, not just with the high noses but real gentlemen and fine-styled ladies like what's on tv and films.:SwoonLoveSmiley:

I am really loving this thread and i must say it has all the characteristics of the high quality fiction - good writing style, deep ideas, suspense and unexpected plot twists where leading characters develop and change beyond recognition... :p

pjw
28-03-2011, 12:57
Here are some pics of Rosinka. A bit soulless and bland, but a pretty fountain and gardens. Try to get the house with a window facing onto that if you can. I'm wondering if there are similar places in Moscow, similar organised villages, places designed for expats, where they have all the comforts of home, security, easy, all-inclusive, sky-high prices, but no worries, no hassles. Does anybody know? Because it can be easier for expats to have a place, like what they're familiar to back home, rather than landing and trying to find a flat, while working 12 hours a day, with all the culture shock, jetlag, maybe only speaking limited Russian language, trying to organise it all yourself, viewing several different places and then negotiating with a landlord. Imagine, you land, and you're starting work the next day, your babies and children are all crying, your wife, who's perhaps only really half-hearted at best about coming with you in the first place, is also about to lose it, well, it's not time to drive to some dumpy little hotel, no, it's time to drive to a conservative place, a nice place with a little bit of the old homely comforts and luxury for kids and family. I can fully well understand why people go to Rosinka. But are there other similar places in Moscow?
19806

1980719809

19808

xSnoofovich
28-03-2011, 14:38
http://www.hines.com/property/detail.aspx?id=228

http://www.lemeridienmoscowcountryclub.ru/en/townhouses

http://www.syetun.ru/en/townhousesandapartments.htm

http://www.evans.ru/search/?type=short&kind=cottage&location=any&rooms=any&totalarea=&price=&currency=usd&immediately=on

Etc Etc.

pjw
28-03-2011, 15:41
http://www.hines.com/property/detail.aspx?id=228

http://www.lemeridienmoscowcountryclub.ru/en/townhouses

http://www.syetun.ru/en/townhousesandapartments.htm

http://www.evans.ru/search/?type=short&kind=cottage&location=any&rooms=any&totalarea=&price=&currency=usd&immediately=on

Etc Etc.
I'm just going to slowly work my way through these lists you've sent.

Pokrovsky Hills. In the first photo, I can see elements of romantic Lakes District, England or even Bronte Yorkshire, strong elements of slate stone, representing solidity, safety, security and history. Can be a tad cold though in Winter months, but hey, that's Moscow not Miami. In the second photo, I can see Brugge views. Wonderful (if you like Brugge.)
1981019811

AstarD
28-03-2011, 16:53
Pjw, why do you think only expats would be interested in living in nice, single-family homes? Do you think all Russians want to live in mud huts piled on top of each other inside one of the world's most polluted cities?

xSnoofovich
28-03-2011, 17:27
inside one of the world's most polluted cities?

Why do people keep saying that?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/31/photos-most-polluted-plac_n_693008.html#s130666&title=Linfen_China

http://www.mibazaar.com/pollutedcities.html

LA is #2 !! Russia has two places in the top 10, but not Moscow !!!

AstarD
28-03-2011, 17:28
I wouldn't want to live in LA, either, but I think it's probably better in the 'burbs than downtown, no?

xSnoofovich
28-03-2011, 17:39
I wouldn't want to live in LA, either, but I think it's probably better in the 'burbs than downtown, no?

Wiki says:

The name given by the Chumash tribe of Native Americans for the area now known as Los Angeles translates to "the valley of smoke"[49] because of the smog from native campfires. Owing to geography, heavy reliance on automobiles, and the Los Angeles/Long Beach port complex, Los Angeles suffers from air pollution in the form of smog. The Los Angeles Basin and the San Fernando Valley are susceptible to atmospheric inversion, which holds in the exhausts from road vehicles, airplanes, locomotives, shipping, manufacturing, and other sources.[50] The smog season lasts from May to October.[51] Unlike other large cities that rely on rain to clear smog, Los Angeles gets only 15 inches (380 mm) of rain each year: pollution accumulates over many consecutive days. Issues of air quality in Los Angeles and other major cities led to the passage of early national environmental legislation, including the Clean Air Act. More recently, the state of California has led the nation in working to limit pollution by mandating low-emission vehicles. Smog should continue to drop in the coming years due to aggressive steps to reduce it, electric and hybrid cars, improvements in mass transit, and other pollution reducing measures.[52]

As a result, pollution levels have dropped in recent decades. The number of Stage 1 smog alerts has declined from over 100 per year in the 1970s to almost zero in the new millennium. Despite improvement, the 2006 and 2007 annual reports of the American Lung Association ranked the city as the most polluted in the country with short-term particle pollution and year-round particle pollution.[53][54] In 2008, the city was ranked the second most polluted and again had the highest year-round particulate pollution.[55] In addition, the groundwater is increasingly threatened by MTBE from gas stations and perchlorate from rocket fuel. With pollution still a significant problem, the city continues to take aggressive steps to improve air and water conditions.[56][57] The city has met its goal of providing 20 percent of the city's power from renewable sources in 2010.[58]

I always thought Moscow was great, since it is basically flat, lack of mountains close-by, and so the wind can just blow away all of the bad stuff in the air.

But then again, there I go thinking.... ;b

pjw
28-03-2011, 17:53
Pjw, why do you think only expats would be interested in living in nice, single-family homes? Do you think all Russians want to live in mud huts piled on top of each other inside one of the world's most polluted cities?Well, firstly the price is quite prohibitive to most I should imagine, otherwise there'd be lots more Rosinka type compounds and many more locals living there. Are there many locals actually living in Rosinka? I don't think that was why it was designed, to cater for the high-end local market and I don't think many locals live there. It's designed for expats for the reasons we have extensively pondered and deliberated upon above. And mostly the expats live there for a limited time before moving on.

Secondly, where we live is fine. There is what looks to be a nuclear reactor not far away, but they say it's for electricity. But I would not describe things in our neighbourhood as mudhut. Good, it's not high-end Moscow, but it's fine. It's a suburb on the outskirts of Moscow, tall tower blocks mostly, but fine. Just stinks of cats in lift and stairwell as the lady downstairs encourages them is the only complaint I have, but I don't dwell on the fact. In fact, I can hold my breath from front entrance, into lift, up to our front door.

When you describe Moscow as one of the world's most polluted cities, it sounds like you're not getting into Moscow much, I mean, not enjoying things much, aren't you enjoying your stay here? I know it's dirty, but so's London, so's everywhere if you search for negative, please stop looking down, AstarD, please make the effort to push yourself to be more positive and for goodness sake's, don't always stay in the compound. There is a fine life outside, waiting for you. Once a week, promise me, leave and venture out. ;)

xSnoofovich
28-03-2011, 17:59
Well, firstly the price is quite prohibitive to most I should imagine, otherwise there'd be lots more Rosinka type compounds and many more locals living there. Are there many locals actually living in Rosinka? I don't think that was why it was designed, to cater for the high-end local market and I don't think many locals live there.

Prohibitive?

Check out this handy little map to see how much flats around you are selling for....

http://www.apartment.ru/map/

(just keep on zooming in, and scroll around to find flats for sale)

AndreyS
28-03-2011, 18:10
Well, firstly the price is quite prohibitive to most I should imagine, otherwise there'd be lots more Rosinka type compounds and many more locals living there. Are there many locals actually living in Rosinka? I don't think that was why it was designed, to cater for the high-end local market and I don't think many locals live there. It's designed for expats for the reasons we have extensively pondered and deliberated upon above. And mostly the expats live there for a limited time before moving on.

Secondly, where we live is fine. There is what looks to be a nuclear reactor not far away, but they say it's for electricity. But I would not describe things in our neighbourhood as mudhut. Good, it's not high-end Moscow, but it's fine. It's a suburb on the outskirts of Moscow, tall tower blocks mostly, but fine. Just stinks of cats in lift and stairwell as the lady downstairs encourages them is the only complaint I have, but I don't dwell on the fact. In fact, I can hold my breath from front entrance, into lift, up to our front door.

When you describe Moscow as one of the world's most polluted cities, it sounds like you're not getting into Moscow much, I mean, not enjoying things much, aren't you enjoying your stay here? I know it's dirty, but so's London, so's everywhere if you search for negative, please stop looking down, AstarD, please make the effort to push yourself to be more positive and for goodness sake's, don't always stay in the compound. There is a fine life outside, waiting for you. Once a week, promise me, leave and venture out. ;)

The other day I bumped into their site on the Internet. It says there are cottages to rent. I have no doubt it's ludicrously expensive. Would you like me to give them a ring to find out the price?

If AstarD's company pays for her rent and even transportation, I think it's ok to live there. Why not enjoy what life gives you?
Of course locals don't live there.


"but they say it's for electricity" - LOL

Personally, I love even London's dirt!

AstarD
28-03-2011, 18:23
...
When you describe Moscow as one of the world's most polluted cities, it sounds like you're not getting into Moscow much, I mean, not enjoying things much, aren't you enjoying your stay here? I know it's dirty, but so's London, so's everywhere if you search for negative, please stop looking down, AstarD, please make the effort to push yourself to be more positive and for goodness sake's, don't always stay in the compound. There is a fine life outside, waiting for you. Once a week, promise me, leave and venture out. ;)
Pwj, I live in Moscow, in a Soviet apartment. And I've lived here nearly 14 years. I ride the metro every day to and from work and I shop at Pyatorochka and Kvartal.

xSnoofovich
28-03-2011, 18:28
Of course locals don't live there.



That is prob right. If you have money, you live in Gorky-6, Gorky-10, or any number of other places. See, the thing is, if you want to live among foreigners, and you have money, the easiest way to do it is to go to their country. Such as London, or NYC or somewhere warm, in Spain.


Anyways, on www.rosinka.ru/eng/gallery/ the pictures look like Upper-middle class suburbia. What is the problem with that?

Why should someone trade down and live in a Krushovki or a Kommunalki because they want to live the "Real Russia?".

I live in an old soviet building, and my walls are wavy, and my floors inclined (not all in the same direction). A glass of water clearly demonstrates this, 1/4" slant in some places - 1/2" in others. Plus, I have broken pipes at least 2-3x a year & ++++++.

Why should I have to waste my time on wondering if my bath water is going to come out all brown/yellow when I want to take a shower? Why should I have to worry about pipes in my bathroom?

Why should I have to worry that my lights my catch on fire, every time I flick the "on" switch? (already happened 2x this year).

Don't get me wrong, if anything, Russia teaches one to be strong, and one to appreciate the small things, but I shouldn't have to do a little happy dance everytime something * works & DOESN'T * break.

AndreyS
28-03-2011, 18:41
It boils down to money - can you afford to live there or not.
Personally I blow my extra-money on travelling.

AndreyS
28-03-2011, 19:54
I've lived here nearly 14 years.

Ooops! You are almost local then. ;-)
You reacted to my last week's PM in a way as being 100 % British, just from the UK. ;-)

AndreyS
28-03-2011, 20:26
Or time. I am sure with Moscow traffic it takes a LONG time to commute in from said suburb.

Agreed. People who are kinda "rich" still prefer to live outside the city, but mostly in their own cottages. Paying high rent with your own money doesn't seem reasonable. Otherwise, as Pete said, there would be many Rosinkas around Moscow, with no constantly available cottages to rent.

xSnoofovich
28-03-2011, 20:37
Agreed. People who are kinda "rich" still prefer to live outside the city, but mostly in their own cottages..

Across the street from me, flats start @ 3 mn USD. Directly in front of our block of flats, they start @ 5 mn USD. To the right of those, they start @ 400k. The 1 flat for sale in our building is near 300k USD.

So, rich and not so rich people are everywhere.

AndreyS
28-03-2011, 20:39
Across the street from me, flats start @ 3 mn USD. Directly in front of our block of flats, they start @ 5 mn USD. To the right of those, they start @ 400k. The 1 flat for sale in our building is near 300k USD.

So, rich and not so rich people are everywhere.
Yes, Mr. President! They are for sale. But dont tell me they are sold in spades. ;-)

pjw
28-03-2011, 20:40
Pwj, I live in Moscow, in a Soviet apartment. And I've lived here nearly 14 years. I ride the metro every day to and from work and I shop at Pyatorochka and Kvartal.Hey, we're more similar than U think, the way U describe it, we could well be neighbours. My favourite place in Moscow is Kvartal. In my suburb there are 2, so U'd know now if we were neighbours.:brush:
Ooops! You are almost local then. ;-)
You reacted to my last week's PM in a way as being 100 % British, just from the UK. ;-)Funny. Gave me the same impression. Like fresh off the boat kind of appearance.

xSnoofovich
28-03-2011, 20:45
they are sold in spades. ;-)

I guess your English is better than mine. I have never heard this phrase before !

Anyways, a quick google search leads me to believe that it means in great numbers.

I have no idea if they are or are not. I suppose I could check the apartments.ru website daily and keep track for several months (years), but I am too lazy for that, since I am not in that price range....

AndreyS
28-03-2011, 20:48
Thx for the compliment.
Yes, in big numbers. I remember, it's a British English expression...
I know from the Russ press that flat sales' figures are very small... Being just as lazy as you I only know what catches my eye against my will.

pjw
29-03-2011, 11:56
http://www.hines.com/property/detail.aspx?id=228

http://www.lemeridienmoscowcountryclub.ru/en/townhouses

http://www.syetun.ru/en/townhousesandapartments.htm

http://www.evans.ru/search/?type=short&kind=cottage&location=any&rooms=any&totalarea=&price=&currency=usd&immediately=on

Etc Etc.Today let's look at Le Meridien in Nakhabino, Kransnogorsky District. This is located West/North West, basically backside of Rubelovka, Moscow's well-known prestigious district.
1981419815
Note they also do dachas and these are like the queens of dacha, a wonderful country house for both locals and expats alike. Prices could be a bit prohibitive, I'm afraid, and they aren't quoted in the website. I'm sure there's some kind of discount available on the dacha, if one takes the appartment. Don't they look fine? A car parking space for each tenant in front of the appartment. No snow on the street, cleaned daily I would expect. Again, similar to Rosinka, the soullessness and blandness is rather striking, but it's not such things that the punters are really after here. Really, what these tenants are looking for is security, the safety, the uniformity, the cleanliness, the general attractive shape, form, design, pleasing to the eye, the blissful tranquility, a bit of lux thrown in and the sure feeling that your house is gonna be there when you come home from work in the evening and when the kiddies come home from kindergarten and your other half comes home from her Pimm's Ladies' Club, although, in saying that, I'm always happy to see our building, on returning in the evening, and I've always got the sure feeling that our place is gonna be there after the long day, becoz to remove our big tower block U'd need a number of Sherman tanks.

xSnoofovich
29-03-2011, 12:10
While Le Meridian does have foreigners, there are mostly Russians that live there. And it is really calm and nice. The kids leave their toys scattered about, and the sound of laughter is in the air.

I am not sure there should be snow in the pics, as they were taken in the Spring/Summer? ;b

Anywho, it is a really nice place, and anyone is free to rent a room in the hotel there, or even in a townhouse for the night or month.

Give it a go :)

pjw
29-03-2011, 15:56
While Le Meridian The name sounds French or Belgian.
does have foreigners, there are mostly Russians that live there.Mostly Russians living there is it?
And it is really calm and nice. The kids leave their toys scattered about, I'm sure this is meant by you in a positive way to describe a positive feeling of relaxed atmosphere and freedom, however, I can see this situation getting out of control. I don't like to see kids leaving their toys about. Personally, it's not something I would personally encourage. We need to make a fair rule that all toys are packed away at the end of the day. If the adults aren't strict about this, the kids won't do it. I've seen it over and over, time and again. We need to give them responsibility to help out, we're empowering them to pitch in, forming the mini-adults of the future, but if they don't, they should be held accountable. Parents go crazy, but I'd chuck the toys in the dustbin. Next day, they'll get the message. For example, Tommy's looking for his new birthday bmx, well, Tommy can look and continue looking but he shouldn't really have left it outside overnight, should he?
and the sound of laughter is in the air.We had this outside our block. When Winter came, all of them were driven away, driven indoors, I think, I'm not sure, I don't know. They'll be back outside soon I'm sure. Honestly, sometimes I feel like calling the police!
I am not sure there should be snow in the pics, as they were taken in the Spring/Summer? ;b No Winter pics? It's suspicious. They surely don't clean everyday. Perhaps it's more like where we live where cleaning snow is based more on mood than strict organisational plan.
Anywho, it is a really nice place, and anyone is free to rent a room in the hotel there, or even in a townhouse for the night or month. Give it a go :)I still dunno if it's more the festive type, the so-called party animal, up for a wild night out, make lots of noise, then leave next day, or if it's more the long-termers, the expats on a large company budget or if it's for the nouveau rich Russian with some cash to throw about. I don't know who rents these appartments or dachas, but I'm sure it's not cheap.

xSnoofovich
29-03-2011, 16:20
I don't know who rents these appartments or dachas, but I'm sure it's not cheap.

http://www.lemeridienmoscowcountryclub.ru/en/longtermrent


If you click on the book it now tab, it seems as if it is 7k rub a night, which could make it about 210 000 rub a month, or about 7k USD a month, which is quite a bit of money, but on the other hand, for some it wouldn't be.

http://le-meridien-mcc.ru/en/

xSnoofovich
29-03-2011, 18:16
or about 7k USD a month

to compare @ 7k USD (only 49 results):

http://evans.ru/search/?type=simple&kind=apartment&location=any&price=7000&currency=usd&areaunit=&immediately=on

whereas 8k USD - 50k USD (per month) brings us 332 results:

http://evans.ru/search/?type=short&regions=any&kind=apartment&t=1&street=any&building=any&renovation=any&rooms_l=&rooms_h=&totalarea_l=&totalarea_h=&floor_l=&floor_h=&price_l=8000&price_h=50000&areaunit=m&currency=USD&immediately=on

AndreyS
30-03-2011, 02:33
to compare @ 7k USD (only 49 results):

http://evans.ru/search/?type=simple&kind=apartment&location=any&price=7000&currency=usd&areaunit=&immediately=on

whereas 8k USD - 50k USD (per month) brings us 332 results:

http://evans.ru/search/?type=short&regions=any&kind=apartment&t=1&street=any&building=any&renovation=any&rooms_l=&rooms_h=&totalarea_l=&totalarea_h=&floor_l=&floor_h=&price_l=8000&price_h=50000&areaunit=m&currency=USD&immediately=on
Oh dear! If I earned 7000 USD a month, I would buy expat.ru and appoint you its President!