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baby-girl
26-10-2003, 18:45
My english boyfriend`s question:)

DaveUK1965
26-10-2003, 20:33
Even more difficult than to find an English one in England, due to "cultural differences". ;-)) Even if you find the right person, there`s distance, seperation and two new cultures to bridge....

natalia_apple
26-10-2003, 21:39
How difficult is it to get an English boyfriend?

Hermione
26-10-2003, 22:05
nothing ontopic occurs to me, just this phrase: 'it's easy to take away smb's wife, hard to give her back'; same thing here: , just what to do with it afterwards

Dave, i don't really believe in this cultural differences you always talk about, well, maybe they really exist if we take the russian province, but not here in moscow, at least i think so

Braders
26-10-2003, 22:30
Originally posted by natalia_apple
How difficult is it to get an English boyfriend?


Very difficult because most are 'up for a laugh and a night on the town' i aint talkin about 50 year olds who frequent the 'BH' 3 nights a week, but the more laid back 'been here seen it done it' type, the ones who will/might be serious.

As to cultural differences of course they exist, i have been here a while and no matter how slight or enormous they may be... in many cases they are evident to someone who doesn't think with his ;)

Damn i went all serious on this one, must be the drop on the Barometer ;)

DaveUK1965
26-10-2003, 22:32
Originally posted by Hermiona
nothing ontopic occurs to me, just this phrase: 'it's easy to take away smb's wife, hard to give her back'; same thing here: , just what to do with it afterwards

Dave, i don't really believe in this cultural differences you always talk about, well, maybe they really exist if we take the russian province, but not here in moscow, at least i think so

Hermiona, you`d be astonished. ;-)) I didn`t either, but.... the differences really ARE there. Not just in the provinces. OK, for an example, imagine you`re in...... Italy. Rome. The people there do things in a totally different way. There y`go. ;-)))

Even a short distance across the North Sea, when I lived in Holland (and the Dutch and English are pretty temperamentally similar) - there were HUGE cultural differences. Just a totally different approach to life......

Remember, the thing about a multicultural marriage is that two people have to REMEMBER all the time - "She`s not English, I`m not Russian". It can - honestly - take years to see how the other person is thinking and will react to a situation..... in the end, each person becomes partially Russian and partially English. ;-))) Like me.... I DO get English girls interested in me over here, but I think that - honestly - I`ve kind of become semi- Russian. ;-)))))

Good job, too - I like it. ;-))))))))))))))

Conversely, a lot of Western men don`t realise what "multi cultural" means and just think they can import a Russian lady to their country (like a piece of furniture) and then let them BECOME English / Russian / French - and they`re disappointed when their wives won`t wear jeans, like to wear LOTS of cosmetics, want to watch Russian TV, listen to Russian music, have Russian friends.... or at least a conversation which has a Russian subject. It does depend on the individual people, but....... it`s always going to be a multicultural marriage - by definition, two cultures. ;-)))))

Hermione
26-10-2003, 22:45
Nu, Dave, Hermiona wasn't born just yesterday as well.. so ok, these cultural differences, yes, maybe, they do exist, but my point is that there exist different cultures: culture in its ususal sense; like habits, national traditions, patterns of behaviour, then religious questions, but there is a culture of interpersonal relationship, and that's the most important thing. Quite often men and women of different nationalities would find contact and understanding much faster and easier than with those from there own country, no? And this differend cultural background just adds to the challenge.. Well, that's how i c and feel it:)

Hermione
26-10-2003, 22:59
ok, ok, men, i give up
if you can't hear me, i have nothing else to add, but i think it's really interesting and ossum to have a partner of different nationality, first, it's a challenge, as i said. It will take time to explore your partner, to understand him or her, i mean you never khow 4 sure how he or she will react, cuz she's different, and that keeps you in shape, thrilled, AM I WRONG?? noooOOOoo!!!
A man (male) is a hunter by nature, so to live with a partner when she is clear, predictable, ordinary is simply booOoOring.
If anybody argues this, I will shoot him!:p :D

natalia_apple
26-10-2003, 23:00
yes, yes, exactly! Its FUN to have a partner of a different nationality!!!!

Hermione
26-10-2003, 23:05
Originally posted by natalia_apple
yes, yes, exactly! Its FUN to have a partner of a different nationality!!!!
ok, Nat, i'll keep u alive;) :)

natalia_apple
26-10-2003, 23:07
you guys already keep me alive and awake on this cold and sleepy Sunday

DaveUK1965
26-10-2003, 23:19
Originally posted by Hermiona
And this differend cultural background just adds to the challenge.. Well, that's how i c and feel it:)

Nuuu, Hermiona. ;-))))) -x-

Heheehe ! There`s "challenge" and...... "challenge". God, I could really, really write a long mail here....

Give you some ideas -

Russian women are much more social and active than UK ones. So you get to go out all the time OR you get (this is great) tons of Russian girlies around all the time for tea and cake and gossip. ;-)) "the handbag mafia" as I call `em. ;-)) Life becomes, er, somewhat different than if you`re married to an English girl. ;-)) Nicer, too. ;-)) But. That`s a small example...

The main difference between UK / UK and UK / RU relationships is - you`ll like this - "division of roles within the relationship". Russian women are much more feminine than UK ones - with a UK woman, it`s basically a flat division of who does what in a relationship - both sexes are...... well, roughly equal. In a UK / RU relationship - there is "Man`s job" and "woman`s job".

It can - honestly - be REALLY stressful when you come home from work and think "Better do the cooking or ironing" (batchelor mode) and be shoo`ed away from the kitchen or ironing board by "vifey" in best "fou !! " mode...... ;-)))

Of course, it doesn`t always happen like that, depends on the personality of the people involved, but......

Examples, examples.

You have x at the end of the month. SOME Russian women will generally go off and spend it - no savings culture in Russia, banks not trusted.... "live for today" ......

When you DO want to spend money on, say, a new carpet, a lot of the women will cluck and fuss and try and get the cheapest one possible. A lot of Russian women have no experience of handling large sums of money...... "husbands` responsibility"......

Kids.... kids, kids. A Russian woman is MUCH more likely to leave her job entirely and not depend on babysitters......

Ooo, big post, part 2 coming up. ;-)

DaveUK1965
26-10-2003, 23:30
Part two.;-)

Well, yes, of course, it depends on the individual persons involved and there IS a difference between Moscow / St Pete and "provincial" women, of course. But really, there are 101 unexpected problems to face.

Number one is MONEY. Two people surviving on one income is never going to be easy anywhere in the world.

Number two - expectations.

"Today we go and see Eengleesh Cast-el, hmmmm ? "

Great, but if the nearest one is 60km away and you have to work at the weekend...... the problem is that you have to get across that "this isn`t a holiday" some times.

Three- cultural differences. Someone gets up and empties the pepelnitsa every two minutes..... even a tiny, tiny minor point as to whether or not the ashtray needs to be kept surgically clean can, er, cause misunderstandings, resentment or lead to bigger problems. Honestly. You have to think at ALL times - "This lady is NOT English, does things in a different way, there IS a reason for it, so shut up, Dave, think think think.... "

..... and she has to too.........

Example AGAIN.

In a UK / Russian relationship, husbands are notorious for being not listened to. ;-))) Friend of mines` wife flies back home to Russia for a few weeks. 15kg baggage allowance.

"Fou ! It`s Aeroflot. I know how to do this.."

He watches amused as she packs 50kg of suitcases the night beforehand. Yep, this is how it works in Russia......

... she`s not in Russia, she`s in England. The next day ??? Off they go to Heathrow, the check in girl says, "That`s another $800 to pay for in excess baggage. "

Told you so.....

So he takes two suitcases back home - unloads them - what`s inside ? 35kg of shopping catalogues so she can get her family to choose things from the catalogues and then ship them off to them.

Usual way she does that - she puts a 25p stamp on each parcel and sends it off. "Russian post office won`t notice."

True, but she forgets that if the UK post office notice, she gets a 40 bill to pay to recover the parcel.... ;-)))))

"It`s the way I do it at home".....

.. but she`s not at home. ;-)))))))

Honestly, there are MASSIVE cultural differences between UK and RU women. It takes a lot of thought to realise what those differences are and both people have to work at understanding those differences, Hermiona.

But it`s GREAT - I wouldn`t change it for the world. ;-)))))))))))

Hermione
26-10-2003, 23:41
Dave, coffee break;)

DaveUK1965
26-10-2003, 23:47
Back on topic.......

"HOW EASY IS IT TO GET A RUSSIAN WIFE ?"

Well, since you`ll never get to know anyone over the internet - and will never be allowed to bring someone over you don`t know

- step one-
Write lots of letters, get to know someone (in the broadest sense)

-step two -
If you DO meet someone nice, my advice is GO AND SEE THEM AS A FRIEND AND AS A FRIEND O N L Y - don`t fall into the "holiday romance" trap and come back engaged no matter how long you`ve known them for. ;-))))))) BIG mistake.

-step three-

If you ARE going to do this - find a Russian wife - be brutally honest with yourself or reality will catch up with you. Do you trust the person you`ve met enough for her to be able to uproot herself to a new culture and fit in ? Does she know anything about life in that new culture ? (she may THINK she does... )) Is she an "expat personality" and does she honestly realise how difficult it is to be thousands of km away from friends, family, relations..... or is she just doing this to "marry a foreigner, any foreigner" ?

Look at it like this - even if her English is perfect, it may take her 2-3 years to begin to fit in to your culture. Financially, it will be a strain, emotionally, too - for both of you.

So, you have to find the RIGHT person, and......... it is much more difficult than finding someone at home - but - in the same way, it`s much, much, much more rewarding. I wouldn`t change it for the world. Russian women are very, very special indeed. ;-))))))

But. Very very different in outlook and personality than any women in your home country.............. that`s for sure. ;-)) Province or not, there are BIG differences and both of you have to have the personality to compromise and the intuition to see the potential problems, understand why they`re occurring and work out a solution............ ;-))))))

For every 800 addresses ordered from dating agencies, one man will go to Moscow. For every 1500 addresses, one man will go to a city outside of Moscow or St Petersburg. (2000 figures, I have a friend who runs a dating agency.) Less than 1% of the men who write - much less - are serious enough to even get on an aeroplane and go to Russia. It`s mainly a dream. A lot of the girls think it`s a case of saying "Come to Russia" and that`s that...

Timeline -

After you find someone (can take a year or more) - 12-18 months of writing (minimum 6) to get to know them sufficiently well to visit - remember, one exchange of letters can take a month.... Russian post...
Six months before she`s let into your country (minimum) - visa process -
12 months (UK) to get ILR - leave to remain - status
and in the interim, you`ll pay everything, including wedding costs, so......

both sides have to be deadly serious, or one or the other will give up.

There is NO such thing as a "mail order bride" - it`s an insulting and degrading term. Finding a Russian wife and bringing her to your country will test the absolute depths of your resolve - and hers - and also deplete your finances and totally change your life like you can`t believe.

But. Dave here needs a JOB - during an IT recession - and career chaos caused by ..... trying to get someone over here - and when that comes - despite all the above - look out ladies, here comes Dave again. ;-)))))))))))

Because. It`s worth it. Big time. :-)))))))))))))))

natalia_apple
26-10-2003, 23:48
dont agree about German women

DaveUK1965
26-10-2003, 23:51
Originally posted by mjhamson
Dave,

I have only scimmed your essay. However... I really need to point something out. Women are Women the world over. You have your Docile types, your wild types, and your average types. It does not matter which culture they come from (other then America and Germany where women are more like men).

-mj

Extreme example. You`re off in Darkest Africa and marry a pygmy, MJ, and then take her home to Seattle.... ;-)))))))

The devil is in the detail...... not that I`m comparing Russian women to African pygmies (you`d kill me, girls ! ;-) ) but...... everyone I know in a UK / RU marriage has gone through very similar "cultural difference" experiences as I did.....

natalia_apple
26-10-2003, 23:53
do Brits cheat on their Russian wives a lot?

DaveUK1965
26-10-2003, 23:56
None that I know of, Nat ! I never did - never even thought of doing it - and that was despite being seperated by so much distance. Oh yes, I had the opportunity..... but.....

Well, to get someone here you have to be totally single minded and determined - both of you do. When you DO get her here, she`s very special and you`ve already gone through such a lot together.

And if someone IS going to cheat on women - he`s unlikely to go through all the hassle of a visa process in the first place.. ;-)))

natalia_apple
26-10-2003, 23:57
so are you planning on visiting Russia, Dave?

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 00:01
Originally posted by natalia_apple
so are you planning on visiting Russia, Dave?

:-)

Natalia, I`ll be there about three months after the next job comes along. Been promised something at Christmas.... whether the promise holds up or not is a different matter. Probably be there in Spring- short time in Moscow and then down to see friends in Volgograd, I think. Really, I know I`m going, but I don`t know when..... and a job may come up in Russia in the interim, of course. ;-)

natalia_apple
27-10-2003, 00:26
a good time to be in Moscow is late spring

escapee
27-10-2003, 00:44
I can't help but agreeing with Dave.
Spent quite a long time living in the UK, so I can judge.
I don't want to repeat what he said , I would only point out that different views on financial issues do exist Let's face it - almost everyone in Russia view Western men as rich ( or at least financially stable) and in many cases it's a main reason why Russian girls are so keen to marry a westerner.
Number two - we tend to be over-emotional and British people are brought up in a way when they always have to be in control in order not to show their emotions. Average Russian female can annoy her British husband hell out by her mood swings.
I know quite a few *multynational* couples and all I can say , it's that POlish women are more successful when get married a westerner, simply because they HAVE BEEN WESTERNISED long time ago , so they are able to cope with culture differences ( again, they are very good in finance!)

Dave, a personal question to you : as far as I concerned, British men (particularly English) tend to have prim and proper English Wife and an EXOTIC mistress (Russians fit in very well). Am I right?

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 01:15
Hehee ! Hi Escapee (y privet ! )

"Average Russian female can annoy her British husband hell out by her mood swings."

God, that`s true.... caused CHAOS with me. One moment I ring Volgograd and say "OK, look, I have a great job but it involves travelling up and down the UK and I`m not sure if it`s good to bring you here"

"I`m beeg and toof, I can cope" she says...

No you`re not, I think - you THINK you can cope..... no bloody chance, thinks I - changes the job.... two weeks later I`m working a 100 hour a month week in Holland -

(money connection)

- "Can you send me $2000 to do an English course ? " she says ? Jeeeeeeesus !!!! Well, OK then..... so I live on toast and cornflakes - ring her up - she`s bought a lot of new dresses....

Escapee is RIGHT. My upbringing is - "never explain, never complain." I ring up my fiancee on the phone and the WORLD is apparently going to END any moment........

...... the next day everything is just fine, oo, what seeley boy you are to think sooch theengs. ;-))))))

The golden rule in England is "Shut up and put up." Trouble is, you can`t say that to a Russian woman or you are DEAD. ;-)) "Sorry darling, life is tough, so grin and get on with it." ;-))

Money. Escapee is also right - there is the concept that every westerner is rich - it is not the case.

"Now I go off and buy new wardrobe"
"Now you bloody don`t." ;-)))))

It`s not their fault, but a cultural difference - Russian women have LONGED for shoes and skirts and dresses to look feminine. It is VERY difficult to control finances in a new country and it is oh-so-easy to end up with 0 in the bank at the end of the month. I got twice left without even money for food after Lyudmila`s shopping sprees. Luckily, I worked out what the problem was and made allowances..... and I wanted her to have the money - but - I was sending her cash in Russia and set up a "dependency culture". Lose the job and lose the opportunity to send money and it is taken as an insult.

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 01:16
(2)
One further point - when Russian women get an idea in their head - there`s no shifting it, right or wrong. I picked up the phone one day with the airfare in my hand to go and see Lyudmila, and got told "It will be three to five years before I get to England".

This after consultation with the "Volgograd handbag mafia", by the way.....

"What ?????? " The VISA LAWYER has told us that we`re 100% likely to get a visa within 6 weeks !!!!!!!

She`d just got no idea - even wanted me to bribe policemen over here to "get necessary papers". OK for Russia- little podarok to the right people - NOT OK here, never work in a million years. She didn`t understand how the UK worked and simply thought she`d get off the plane with intermediate English and get a job as a lecturer... there`s me thinking, "Now you didn`t take the opportunity to learn English, so I`ll have to factor in looking after you for 2-3 years whilst you learn it - at great expense - here."

Also add in driving lessons - necessary and expensive here. $2-300 in Russia - 2000 here. But she wouldn`t take them in Russia. "Wish for something and it will never come."

And you can not say SHUT UP AND TAKE THE LESSONS as "husbant" never gets listened to. ;-)))))) Plus, sulk sulk sulk if I said "nasty theeng" to her...

In the end, I just ran around all over the UK trying to keep her happy and trying to stop the incredible mood swings making my life a misery. ;-)))))) God, I`m glad I`m single again - and did I learn some lessons ? ;-)))))

But the good times were wonderful.


Originally posted by escapee
Dave, a personal question to you : as far as I concerned, British men (particularly English) tend to have prim and proper English Wife and an EXOTIC mistress (Russians fit in very well). Am I right?

Hehee ! Escapee, I, er, don`t think so. There are so few Russians in England, and most are married, anyway - visa process. I think they just find someone ..... different.

What I love about Russian women IS that difference. ;-)))))

Thing about a multicultural relationship, though - never forget that Russian women tend to have a depressive and fatalistic personality (in general) and no experience of how life works in the West - if they decide that the process is taking too long, that`s it - konets. Doesn`t matter whether it`s logical, reasonable or even right - once the heels stick in, doesn`t matter how far down the visa line you are, game over. ;-))) Also. Bear in mind that when they DO get here - Escapee, am I right, here ? Reality doesn`t always match up to fantasy. Really, life here is not so much different than in Russia - you just get a bigger house and car to pay for, eventually - it`s no skazka. The girls who think it IS a skazka.............. are going to have one hell of a nasty surprise....

Be careful who you fall in love with. ;-))))))))))

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 01:26
PS - Escapee, you`re right about Polish women, too. Generally different attitudes to life and money and....... everything. ;-)

A lot of Russian girls come here thinking "Paradise, lots of money, new clothes, little cottage with roses growing around the door - two children, I can spend the whole day looking after them... handsome husband goes off to work and comes back with a lot of money, we have a nice new car and holidays in exotic locations 2-3 times a year.... "

Skazka. Fairytale. Who pays for it ? ;-)))))))

Reality is -

Get off the plane with intermediate English, sit around bored, upset and overwhelmed for 6 months, unable to work because of the immigration rules, slowly slowly learn English, realise that it`s a very expensive country and there is no way two people can live on one salary - hate everything here for six months - hate your husband for "taking you from beloved Russia" (logical, eh ? ;-)) ) - realise that you can`t CHANGE him ("He`s a near match, I`ll come to England and stop him smoking, liking football and doing perdezh in bed like muzhik") - immigration is stress, stress, stress - and a great quote was " UK/ Russian couples are unique insofar as they`re couples who get married barely knowing each other."

Marry an Englishman for LOVE as that will get you through it. Marrying one for a better life..... is a big mistake when you`re 4000km from home in a totally different world.

natalia_apple
27-10-2003, 01:29
wise, wise, wise, I'll just stick to getting to know a bit some nice English and American guys

baby-girl
27-10-2003, 01:53
How difficult is it to get an English boyfriend?
___________________________________

Much easier then u think, Nat!;) They r finding u!
But different q how to keep them.
Only time will put everything into a right places.

To Dave:
I`m sorry, but i think u had a very sad expirience:( .
Every case is different.
I`ve just asked my boyfriend about the biggest difference in our cultures - he said - French problem :D
He hates them:mad: . I do like...;)

"When you DO want to spend money on, say, a new carpet, a lot of the women will cluck and fuss and try and get the cheapest one possible. A lot of Russian women have no experience of handling large sums of money...... "husbands` responsibility"......"

Ha-ha-ha!!!!:D
Tottaly opposite in my personal expirience!! It`s my boyfriend who`s earning twice more than me asking some money all the time!:p . I still waiting for my money!! since july....
And i paying my rent!
And I hope to get a new carpet (!) soon...
Which i was asking for the all last year:)

And we r happy! We r understand each other. This is my 1 st proper relationship in my life. For him too. He`s saying that, and i`ve got the all rights to trust him - we R very honest with each other. And i`m really proud of it. We`ve done a really good work. Both of us.

The biggest problem in such uk-rus relationship is a language barrier. But i don`t think it`s only about rus-uk, there is and ger-uk, fr-ger, uk-fr and whatever...

Or no, i wrong!
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM is 1 day U HAVE TO GET MARRIED!:eek:
And not at the time then U want it, but the time then the law says to do it!
______________

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 02:10
Originally posted by baby-girl
How difficult is it to get an English boyfriend?
___________________________________

Or no, i wrong!
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM is 1 day U HAVE TO GET MARRIED!:eek:
And not at the time then U want it, but the time then the law says to do it!
______________

Awww, lovely. ;-)) Baby-girl, I`m so happy for you - ypa ! ;-)) You`re right, everyone is different, but a lot of my friends had exactly the same experiences. It`s nice to see that you really HAVE met someone right for you - I think I didn`t - I think a lot of people I know didn`t either - but !!!!! Big smile for you and I`m sure it will all go OK. ;-)))))))))))

Even the carpet. ;-))))))))))))))

Don`t worry about the language- it`s not so big a problem and that will all be OK with time, and - yes, you have to get married. It`s a huge risk for a man, as you COULD leave at any time and have half the house.......

If you think about it - if something happened back in Russia and you HAD to go back (and didn`t like the marriage) - then yes, you could do it - divorce, half the house. It just shows - marry for love. Nothing more. And - I`m so glad it`s all working out so nicely for you - BIG smile - and I hope I`m just as lucky with my next adventure into the mysterious world of Russian ladies. ;-)))

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 02:13
Originally posted by natalia_apple
so what would the recommendations be on how to find and keep an English boyfriend?

......... just meet the RIGHT one ! ;-))) That simple. ;-)))))))

natalia_apple
27-10-2003, 02:14
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
- yes, you have to get married. It`s a huge risk for a man, as you COULD leave at any time and have half the house.......

If you think about it - if something happened back in Russia and you HAD to go back (and didn`t like the marriage) - then yes, you could do it - divorce, half the house. It just shows - marry for love. Nothing more. And - I`m so glad it`s all working out so nicely for you - BIG smile - and I hope I`m just as lucky with my next adventure into the mysterious world of Russian ladies. ;-)))

Is it possible for a Russian woman to sign some kind of a legal document stipulating she wont claim to have half of the house if she and her English husband get divorced soon, not to put the English guy at such a high risk?

baby-girl
27-10-2003, 02:15
Love ur boyfriend!
And be honest. Don`t play with other people`s feelings - they will pay u back.
And it doesn`t matter where is ur boyfriend from - just ask urself - Do I want to be with THIS person? Or I just want to be with ANY person?
And if answer YES - IT`S HIM!!!
Well.... GOOD LUCK!!!;)

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 02:21
No. You CAN ask her to sign a legal statement - but it`s just a statement, it has no legal right in law, and a court will not even consider it if a divorce comes through.

So someone has to be VERY sure to marry you. Which he has to do (as Baby-girl says) to keep you in England - and it has to be done within 6 months of you arriving.

The process is then that - after being unable to work for six months, you can then work. After one year, checks are made to see if the marriage is still stable, and then you can apply for ILR - Indefinite Leave to Remain, which means you can stay here for good. It`s not citizenship - that requires 3 years residence with no more than 270 days out of the country, and no criminal behaviour. ;-)))))

Over in Schengen area countries, Russian women can be invited by the government (Holland as an example) and don`t HAVE to get married, but - there is no right of residence until you become a Dutch citizen (someone correct me if I`m wrong) - takes 5 years and you have to learn Dutch. ;-))))) If - during that time, a boyfriend decides he doesn`t want you - back home you go. You CAN appeal. But I don`t know how effective that is, and I certainly know two Dutch men who change Russian girlfriends every four years.

It`s more difficult to get to England, but once you get here and get married, your rights are guaranteed. After one year, you can stay here (married or not) for as long as you want. But the problem is that it`s more expense for the man, as you HAVE to get married within six months. And that is $$$$$$$. ;-))))))

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 02:23
Originally posted by baby-girl
Love ur boyfriend!
And be honest. Don`t play with other people`s feelings - they will pay u back.
And it doesn`t matter where is ur boyfriend from - just ask urself - Do I want to be with THIS person? Or I just want to be with ANY person?
And if answer YES - IT`S HIM!!!
Well.... GOOD LUCK!!!;)

Hurrah ! Good answer. ;-))))))

English saying - "People come into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime"..... ;-))))))

Better to get married for a lifetime, not for a reason. ;-))))))

natalia_apple
27-10-2003, 02:26
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
No. You CAN ask her to sign a legal statement - but it`s just a statement, it has no legal right in law, and a court will not even consider it if a divorce comes through.

So someone has to be VERY sure to marry you. Which he has to do (as Baby-girl says) to keep you in England - and it has to be done within 6 months of you arriving.

The process is then that - after being unable to work for six months, you can then work. After one year, checks are made to see if the marriage is still stable, and then you can apply for ILR - Indefinite Leave to Remain, which means you can stay here for good. the problem is that it`s more expense for the man, as you HAVE to get married within six months. And that is $$$$$$$. ;-))))))

Poor English men , they must be so scared, how come their rights are not guaranteed?

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 02:28
Because it`s a fair system, and it tells you "Marry the right person and do this seriously" - and - it`s best that the Russian ladies` rights are considered, too........

natalia_apple
27-10-2003, 02:28
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
Over in Schengen area countries, Russian women can be invited by the government (Holland as an example) and don`t HAVE to get married, but - there is no right of residence until you become a Dutch citizen (someone correct me if I`m wrong) - takes 5 years and you have to learn Dutch. ;-))))) If - during that time, a boyfriend decides he doesn`t want you - back home you go. You CAN appeal. But I don`t know how effective that is, and I certainly know two Dutch men who change Russian girlfriends every four years.



Oh, how smart those D guys are! Changing Russian girlfriends every 4 years!!!!!

natalia_apple
27-10-2003, 02:30
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
Because it`s a fair system, and it tells you "Marry the right person and do this seriously" - and - it`s best that the Russian ladies` rights are considered, too........

but i'd hate to take half of someone's house if the marriage went wrong and we divorced a year after getting married...

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 02:34
I know a few of the UK community here including people who came over just after perestroika. I`m using "Dutch" as an example here, but the Schengen system of immigration doesn`t really guarantee the rights of Russian women until they`ve been resident for five years.

Yes, I do know two Dutch guys who have changed Russian girlfriends every four years. In each case, the girls stayed some time in Holland afterwards and appealed against the law..... I don`t know what happened to them. I also don`t know if it`s the same system in other countries.

In America, I DO know that whoever brings a fiancee in has to sign a declaration that he`s responsible for all her social security payments for 10 years afterwards......... it`s a serious business, Nat ! ;-))

And I get letters from Russian girls who think I have money growing on trees saying "Come to Russia immediately ! " ;-)))))) Well, I get 4 weeks holiday a year and the flight costs $$$ - I don`t know them - why risk it ? "Oh and then I can come to your country"....... yeah yeah yeah. ;-)))))))

baby-girl
27-10-2003, 02:35
;)
Marry on a person who hasn`t got a house!
No house - no problem!:D

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 02:37
Originally posted by natalia_apple
but i'd hate to take half of someone's house if the marriage went wrong and we divorced a year after getting married...

A lot of women say the same thing, Natalia.

However. Let`s be practical. You`re in a new country with a different life. The man who brought you here is a fat drunken muzhik and you want RID of him - and you`re entitled to half the house.... under those circumstances, would you go home to Russia and stay there forever, or take what`s yours by law and stay in the UK and find a new husband here ?

Human nature........ and remember, we think differently, so any suspicious man has to think that that is a possibility.....

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 02:39
Originally posted by baby-girl
;)
Marry on a person who hasn`t got a house!
No house - no problem!:D

Oooooooo, almost perfect ! :)

However, our lovely IND - Immigration and Nationality Department usually start off the visa proceedings by saying "Where will your fiancee live, how many rooms does it have, how many people already live there"........

You could rent (arenda) but..... it`s SO expensive. Still, it`s a solution. ;-))

Oh yes, then the IND look at your bank statements for six months - the UK is a bureaucracy, like Russia - we just LOVE paperwork here. ;-)))))

natalia_apple
27-10-2003, 02:40
it would be nice to stay, but why take HALF of the house?

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 02:44
Originally posted by natalia_apple
it would be nice to stay, but why take HALF of the house?

The court decides what you can have, Natalia, and ! You don`t have much say in the matter. ;-))))) Also, England is a very expensive place, and , believe me, you`d need half the cost of a house to stay here a long time.........

baby-girl
27-10-2003, 02:45
In my case i living with my boyfriend in his mom`s house.
May be it`s sounds strange... But ... everything is just so good.
I have no problems at all with his family - his mom is angel!
_____________________
.:D

natalia_apple
27-10-2003, 02:49
oh, yes its a very interesting topic as to whether its easy to live together and get on with the mother of your boyfriend/husband in England...

In Russia its considered a nightmare if a woman has to live together with her husband's/boyfriend's mother

baby-girl
27-10-2003, 02:49
Originally posted by natalia_apple
it would be nice to stay, but why take HALF of the house?
_____________________________________________
...If u can take all:D :D :D .

____________
.

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 02:52
It`s a great solution. My parents LOVED Lyudmila and there was an option to do the same until she was working and we could both afford proper (non rented) accomodation. Luckily, my salary was high enough to pay the rent AND look after her, but in a lot of cases, a Russian fiancee comes here and you have two mouths to feed with only one salary.

It depends. Some girls will come here and say "OK, I was a doctor back home but here I can`t speak English so I`ll have to work in a shoe shop" (and even that requires some English) - others may just say "Fou !!!!!! " and sit there upset that they can`t be a gynaecologist or architect or doctor like they were back home. It`s always a risk.....

As you can see, getting a Russian fiancee here can be a lot of sacrifice. But. If two people genuinely love each other and are totally COMMITTED to each other - it WILL work. ;-))))) As Baby-girl says, it`s not really a question of nationality bt one of love. ;-)))

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 02:54
Originally posted by baby-girl
Originally posted by natalia_apple
it would be nice to stay, but why take HALF of the house?
_____________________________________________
...If u can take all:D :D :D .

____________
.

LOL !!!!!! :D :D :D

natalia_apple
27-10-2003, 02:57
Originally posted by DaveUK1965

It depends. Some girls will come here and say "OK, I was a doctor back home but here I can`t speak English so I`ll have to work in a shoe shop" (and even that requires some English) - others may just say "Fou !!!!!! " and sit there upset that they can`t be a gynaecologist or architect or doctor like they were back home. It`s always a risk.....



just wondering what i could do upon arriving in England should I happen to come to England with the intention to marry someone...

What do you think?

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 03:25
Originally posted by natalia_apple
just wondering what i could do upon arriving in England should I happen to come to England with the intention to marry someone...

What do you think?

Sorry, Natalia, impossible - you wouldn`t get in without a fiancee visa. No chance.

Since you`re under 27, you COULD get in on a nanny visa (your best bet) but still you couldn`t marry here - you`d have to meet someone who was interested enough to marry you, and then go home and start a fiancee visa. It IS possible.

There are a lot of nanny agencies in London, but a lot of them choose girls from non - Russian countries, as it`s easy for them to get a visa. But you could do it.

The other options -
As a teacher, you could apply to teach here - teachers are in great demand, it`s a good choice
Student visa - you`d need tens of thousands of pounds to pay your own way here
....
there are a few other options, but yes, you could get a job as a teacher or nanny here..... it IS possible.....

natalia_apple
27-10-2003, 03:32
thanx, very informative

but could I teach Russian/French having experience teaching English?

Is it OK for a teacher to speak with an accent?

DaveUK1965
27-10-2003, 03:39
Absolutely fine with French, Natalia - and an accent is just an accent. ;-) I don`t think there`s much call for teaching Russian, though - you could do it in your spare time, of course.

Be warned, although you`ll earn a reasonable salary, teachers are not massively paid and it`s an expensive place..... but.... there are one or two Englishmen here. ;-)))))

Here`s some links for you -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/281371.stm
http://www.teachuk.co.uk/
http://www.useyourheadteach.gov.uk/
http://www.teachers.org.uk/index.php

natalia_apple
27-10-2003, 03:44
thanx, Dave, I'll check them out

I certainly will as what I got from a Russian guy today in a PM makes me like Brits even more

seems that Russian males are either already married/have a girlfriend

or just plain rude

baby-girl
28-10-2003, 01:40
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DaveUK1965

It depends. Some girls will come here and say "OK, I was a doctor back home but here I can`t speak English so I`ll have to work in a shoe shop" (and even that requires some English) - others may just say "Fou !!!!!! " and sit there upset that they can`t be a gynaecologist or architect or doctor like they were back home. It`s always a risk.....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think, it`s a tipical Russian attitude to life.
Everything or nothing.
Right now or never ever.
Overreaction. Very chidish...
I was a personal secretary. Of 1 of moscow`s deputy. Had a GOOD money for 21 y.o. girl. Specially for moscow;)
Now I `am a Level 2 at Export dep. at airfreight company in heathrow.
Big difference.
But it`s still positive difference!:)

natalia_apple
28-10-2003, 01:43
What do you think this attitude was caused by?

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 01:48
Originally posted by baby-girl
quote:
I think, it`s a tipical Russian attitude to life.
Everything or nothing.
Right now or never ever.
Overreaction. Very chidish...
I was a personal secretary. Of 1 of moscow`s deputy. Had a GOOD money for 21 y.o. girl. Specially for moscow;)
Now I `am a Level 2 at Export dep. at airfreight company in heathrow.
Big difference.
But it`s still positive difference!:)

That`s so true, Baby-girl - I saw it with my fiancee so many times. I think (Hi Natalia) that it`s all to do with living in Russia - you can never tell what will happen tomorrow so you take what comes today. Russia is not a place to have dreams and make plans in. Well, not outside of Moscow or SPB, anyway. It`s one of the main differences between the UK and (provincial) Russia - here you have to think ahead - you HAVE to make plans and you HAVE to grab everything you can and you HAVE to think ten years ahead.

There`s an attitude in Russia which says, "I`m OK, I`m comfortable, I ate today, this is an OK kvartera, my boss isn`t so bad - no worse than anyone elses` - the chances of me getting something better are very small so I won`t bother myself too much - I`ll just live my life and be happy. " Doesn`t work here. The chances are better, so the choices are - be happy with very little or get out and work and plan and change. Life seems to be much faster here, and if you sit back and watch the sun set, someone else will steal your chair. ;-)))))))))))

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 01:50
PS Baby-girl, sorry to ask a personal question - but - really- is your life so much better now ? And - what DO you think of England in general ? ;-))))))

I know quite a lot about Russian women and "provincial Russian attitude", but I never quite get to understand my own country - maybe because I live here and never see it for real. ;-)))))))

baby-girl
28-10-2003, 01:53
Student visa - you`d need tens of thousands of pounds to pay your own way here
(DAVE)
....

Dave, it`s much cheaper then u think. The only problem what u`ve got - the age limit.
The legal way to get to UK is going to be around 2.500 Max.
For 6 months student visa inc. flight, college and accomodation.
Trust me
;)

natalia_apple
28-10-2003, 01:55
still not something I could afford in the near future, have to think of other ways

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 02:02
Originally posted by baby-girl
Student visa - you`d need tens of thousands of pounds to pay your own way here
(DAVE)
....

Dave, it`s much cheaper then u think. The only problem what u`ve got - the age limit.
The legal way to get to UK is going to be around 2.500 Max.
For 6 months student visa inc. flight, college and accomodation.
Trust me
;)

True - with some schools. ;-) Depends if you`re lucky or not, Baby-girl. A lot of the student visas get rejected - the trick is to get a 13 week course with a local University - the University then writes the letter of invitation. Which is usually accepted. I`m sure you`re right and it can be done cheaper (how much the lady learns while she`s in England is a different matter ;-) ) - it`s a headache - but if someone loves you enough to spend $3500 (and what`s $3500 if you love someone ? ;)) then it`s a good way to get here.......

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 02:03
Originally posted by natalia_apple
still not something I could afford in the near future, have to think of other ways

Teaching is your best way, Natalia - hey !!!!! You`re a kitten !! When did that happen ? ;-))))))) -x-

With teaching, all you need is your airfare here - and sometimes not even that..... sometimes the employer pays.

natalia_apple
28-10-2003, 02:04
and the visa?

it happened today, there are two!

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 02:05
www.russianlondon.com - ?????, ??????????. ??? ?????? ?? ????????

http://www.bratok.co.uk/ -??????? ???????? ? ???????? ?????

http://www.russianclub.org.uk/ -???? ??????????

http://russiandublin.org/ ???? ??? ????????? ? ?????????? ??-?????? ??????? ??????? ? ????????

www.london-info.co.uk -- ????????. ?????? London-Info

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK-FSUsupportgroup - ?????? ??? ???????? - ????? ??????? ???

??????? ???????????? ??????? ? ?????????? ???????? ???-?????????, ?????????????? ??????? ?????????.

http://orgs.man.ac.uk/intsoc/ INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY


http://lists.man.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/russian-speaking russian-speaking mailing list


http://www.geocities.com/rus_manchester/ Society for Russian Speaking Students.


http://www.manchester.com/ Virtual Manchester

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ Local newspaper

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/ Manchester Airport

http://www.gmpte.com/ the official public transport site for Greater Manchester

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 02:07
Originally posted by natalia_apple
and the visa?

it happened today, there are two!

Visa isn`t the problem - the agency write the application for the visa - you apply to an agency or employer here and they sponsor you. The difficulty is finding a teacher training agency who will take Russian teachers - but they do . I`ll make some enquiries and post the results here, Natalia. ;-))

natalia_apple
28-10-2003, 02:09
thanx, and also for the info about England and Manchester in particular

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 02:13
:-XXX No problem ! ;-) There`s a Russian club in Manchester - I know a few people there - so ! On Friday, I`ll be going for a drink with them - ypa ! ;-))))))))

Give me the company of good Russian people any day, and I don`t need any more in life. Apart from the money to buy the beers, of course. ;-)

http://www.drb.me.uk/

natalia_apple
28-10-2003, 02:14
have a great time, tell us about it

baby-girl
28-10-2003, 03:10
PS Baby-girl, sorry to ask a personal question - but - really- is your life so much better now ? And - what DO you think of England in general ? ;-))))))

I know quite a lot about Russian women and "provincial Russian attitude", but I never quite get to understand my own country - maybe because I live here and never see it for real. ;-)))))))
...............................................................................................
1.
It`s difficult to say, Dave.
The thing is a had a good life in Moscow, maybe at some questions even better.
My parents r not poor, so the material side was much better there, then here.
But it wasn`t my life.
Here i proofed to myself i CAN live on my on, i can earn money, i control myself very well, i can live without support...
I need to find my way of life, this is it... Simple...
And i think i`m on a right way.
2.
I do like english people. I think i do understand them. They do understand me, if they want, of course. Most of english r very close and prefer to keep their mouths shut. I respect it.
English r not very kind but very naive (sorry), and it`s easy for them to believe in so many dodgy (?) storys (?) (Sorry for my english - i lost my dictionary). They don`t trust to foreigners for years, but if they do - u r lucky.
I don`t like London because to see the white person here is very rare, and pakis do not respect english life.
I love english countryside - the such places like Rye and Hastings...
The english r clever people.
The english girls have no style at all.:D
And english put the gravy even into the soup!!!:)

It`s only my personal impression for last 2 years.
Sorry!

natalia_apple
28-10-2003, 03:18
Originally posted by baby-girl
The english girls have no style at all.:D


though I've only seen English girls outside of England, this I think is not true

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 03:21
:D :D :D

Good for you, Baby-girl. ;-)))

About us strange English people ? :-)

Yes, English people are very "close" - reserved. ;-) It`s all a game - when you get to know them, they`re very warm and friendly. But you have to get to know them.

No, sorry, people are not friendly in London at all.... well, some people are (East End, Cockneys) but London is a money machine and not many people are kind there. ;-)) Yes, you`re right, some people can be very naive..... people are friendlier in some parts of the country. It`s not all London. I find it very unfriendly there.

Stangely, true about foreigners, I think. It`s part of the English culture of keeping to themselves....... but not all of us are like that. ;-))

"Pakis" ? Ooo, naughty girl, smack on bottie. ;-))))))))))))

The English countryside is so beautiful. We`re so lucky.

Er, yes, the girls have NO style and here I am on a Russian expat site talking about Russian girls - wonder why ? ;-)))))))))))

Gravy in soup ?????? ;-))))) Baby-girl, what HAVE you been eating ? ;-)))))

Hehee - you`re quite correct. Big smile. ;-)))))))))

natalia_apple
28-10-2003, 03:24
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
:D :D :D

Er, yes, the girls have NO style and here I am on a Russian expat site talking about Russian girls - wonder why ? ;-)))))))))))



My former classmates Louse and Lucy must have been an exception, then....

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 03:28
(couldn`t sleep ! ) - no no, Baby-girl is 100% right..... ;-)

The pace of life is much different here. So girls don`t wear lots of makeup and since they have more money, they aren`t so careful in choosing clothes.

My friend says his Russian wife is always immaculately dressed, perfectly made up - and she makes English girls look "tatty" - shabby, badly dressed. In fact, everyone I know in a UK/RU relationship says it....

Remember, it`s not Russia - girls don`t have to dress up here to attract a man. Different country and culture.........

baby-girl
28-10-2003, 03:35
Gravy in soup ?????? ;-))))) Baby-girl, what HAVE you been eating ? ;-)))))
(Dave)
...........................................................................................
It WAS a soup! (not soap!):)
I`ve been sick for few weeks and my darling`s mom cooked a SOUP for me.... Such a brounish color....
Looks like ..... i can`t say that, not aloud... if my Dave will see it...It`s better don`t do it.
Maybe she put some brown souse???
it`s too late now, anyway....;)

natalia_apple
28-10-2003, 03:39
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
(

Remember, it`s not Russia - girls don`t have to dress up here to attract a man.

and if a Russian girl does... Mmm, her English boyfriend or husband will maybe even go crazy of such happiness....

baby-girl
28-10-2003, 03:40
"Pakis" ? Ooo, naughty girl, smack on bottie. ;-))))))))))))
>......................................................................................
if i`m a naughty, u r CHEEKY!!!:D

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 03:40
...........................................................................................
It WAS a soup! (not soap!):)
I`ve been sick for few weeks and my darling`s mom cooked a SOUP for me.... Such a brounish color....
Looks like ..... i can`t say that, not aloud... if my Dave will see it...It`s better don`t do it.
Maybe she put some brown souse???
it`s too late now, anyway....;)

Heheeee - when I went around to my Russian relatives they had to hide the shchi from me - and - ohhh, Baby-girl - those DRIED fish everyone eats with beer ?? And rechnoi rak ? ;-)))))))))

Puuuuuuuuuuu - pass the brown soup, please. ;-)))))

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 03:43
That`s not a fish. ;-) It`s TUTANKHAMUN. ;-)))))))

baby-girl
28-10-2003, 03:48
Don`t do it with me!!!! AAAA!!!
I want proper russian food!!!!!!
And pivo and raki....
MMMMMmmmmm:((((((((((

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 03:49
Originally posted by natalia_apple
and if a Russian girl does... Mmm, her English boyfriend or husband will maybe even go crazy of such happiness....

True ! :-)))))) There I am - a cheeky (;)) Anglichanin walking around arm in arm with a beautiful girl who looks like a movie star, is intelligent, cultured - has real class - it`s fantastic. ;-))))))

Normally, the profile for most men looking for a Russian wife (apart from the fat weirdoes) is - 37, professional, married before, and very traditional and old fashioned..... a lot of the SERIOUS girls are late 20`s - early 30`s (you`re both younger, but. ;-))) ) - professional, educated, motivated.... the girls who just want to escape from the village..... rarely do.

Russian women are - honestly- very, very, very special . Over in Russia, the culture is different and girls have to dress to attract men - over here, it doesn`t happen, things are more flat and equal - women have more RIGHTS - doesn`t that sound nice ? But really, men and women here just end up being the same. I prefer Russia, where women..... really ARE women. ;-)))))))

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 03:51
Originally posted by baby-girl
Don`t do it with me!!!! AAAA!!!
I want proper russian food!!!!!!
And pivo and raki....
MMMMMmmmmm:((((((((((

Hehee ! Hey - don`t you know about the shop selling Russian food in London ? They used to advertise on Russian London - www.russianlondon.com - kolbasa, sir... everything.. I don`t know about rechnoi raki, though. ;-))) Also there`s a shop in Birmingham who deliver REAL Russian food....

baby-girl
28-10-2003, 03:52
Ok, it`s time to go to bed...
Or i will not get up at bloody 6.30 in a morning
Speak to u tomorrow.
Night-night!!

PS. Nat, ur kittens r absolutelly beautifull!!

natalia_apple
28-10-2003, 03:53
thank you, good night Baby-girl, good night Dave

DaveUK1965
28-10-2003, 03:55
Good night all and ! I`ll find you some addresses in the morning, Baby-girl. ;-)))

:)

toka1111
29-10-2003, 21:34
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
You CAN ask her to sign a legal statement - but it`s just a statement, it has no legal right in law, and a court will not even consider it if a divorce comes through.

I re-read this para... almost could not believe it... You guys really don't use prenups in GB? :confused:

natalia_apple
29-10-2003, 22:06
What are prenups?

DaveUK1965
29-10-2003, 22:25
"Pre-nuptial agreements" - Natalia, this was the document I was talking about which said that a husband came into a marriage with this, a wife with that, and if the marriage failed, that is what they`d agreed to leave with.

Hi Toka - no prenups in the UK. You can have a solicitor write one up for you if it makes you feel happy, but the prenuptial agreement has no legal status at a divorce hearing. It CAN be considered, it rarely is - the decision of the court is final. Actually, quite a good thing, as a prenuptial agreement can be written as the result of coercion - and on top of that - suppose a husband and wife get married in, say, 1990, divorce in 2003 - she`s got three kids to look after, he`s on dialysis, been declared bankrupt, she`s now the breadwinner... circumstances change. If a prenup had any value, it would have been rewritten time and time again to reflect those changing circumstances, and in cases where a husband and wife could amicably agree, they wouldn`t need a divorce court to assign property and child maintenance rights. Even if they DID agree, there`s always the chance that one or either partner won`t stick by that verbal agreement, so the court is there to legally underline who gets what.

Prenups are a complete waste of time, here. I think it`s a good divorce system in the UK, personally.

natalia_apple
29-10-2003, 22:54
Oh, God, poor UK guys, it's so dangerous....

DaveUK1965
29-10-2003, 23:11
Not if you marry the right person. ;-))))))))) And it really doesn`t matter what nationality they are.

In the US, the fiancee visa legislation states that if you bring your fiancee to the US, you are responsible for her social security payments for the next ten years. ;-))))

Natalia, nothing in life is ever risk free - anywhere. ;-)))

natalia_apple
29-10-2003, 23:14
OOooooh, I love risk!!!!!

But for now its better to have British(or American) friends

DaveUK1965
29-10-2003, 23:18
Hopefully you`ll find one who likes risk as well, Natalia. ;-) Not many do.

Even if you don`t marry someone here then they can still be awarded something as a result of a relationship break up. (It still happens) - but the golden rule is that a Russian lady will not be allowed to stay here (or in the US) unless she marries someone.

A number of the girls from the provinces and villages seem to come with the attitude "Marry a foreigner - any foreigner" - and when they end up thousands of kilometres away from home in a loveless relationship, unable to speak English properly or get a job.... well. I think that they then wish they were back home, unfortunately. The west is definitely not paradise. Just different. ;-))

natalia_apple
29-10-2003, 23:23
to go back home would be honest (still would be experience)
better to be in a great relationship with mutual attraction

marry a (any) foreigner?

nope, marry a gentleman who wont take me for granted

natalia_apple
29-10-2003, 23:37
I just think that it can protect the guy

J.D.
30-10-2003, 08:15
There are much better vehicles than prenups. Living trusts, dummy corporations, high morgates with the cash stashed in the Caymans etc. If you think you need a prenup with your wife then just go ahead and treat her like the government with regards to your personal assets.

DaveUK1965
30-10-2003, 08:25
Heheehee - now JD is giving the game away. ;-)))) A few hundred K in bearer bonds that Wifey doesn`t know anything about ? ;-)))) Tsk tsk. ;-))))))

Why didn`t I think of that ? Oh yes, lack of a few hundred K... ;-)))

DaveUK1965
30-10-2003, 08:28
Originally posted by mjhamson
If you think that Prenups have any real merit in the States... THINK AGAIN!

The fact is that they really do not hold much ground in most states. Take a look at some of the more public cases... and the women can always fight for the right to maintain an "acustomed lifestyle".

Personally, if I am so worried about such things... it would mean that I am with the wrong girl.

Too true, MJ - anyone remember the Jocylene Wildenstein case ? Didn`t she get $400k a month settlement ?? At the divorce, the lawyers for the "cat woman" claimed she couldn`t even make toast without a cook.....

.. presumably all her implants would melt - but she skinned the equally lovely Mr Wildenstein alive. Never bet on the outcome of any trial or settlement. Sure fire way to lose the shirt off your back. ;-)))))

sfjohns67
30-10-2003, 12:44
Okay ladies and gentleman (that would be you, DaveUK), I just have to weigh in with the fairytale! I'm an American, married to a Russian gal, and we both live here in Moscow. She is fiercely independent, very intelligent, kind, with an irreverent sense of humor, and oh yeah, she's beautiful. We dated from May 99, got married in Sep 02, and had our daughter (hopefully only the first) this past May.

I get the whole Russian experience - the passion, the excitement, even mundane things like vobla, beer, vodka, shashlik, "ya tebya uvazhayu". I get a mutual love of theater, winter strolls in the snow, poking fun at any and all of our respective countrymen's quirks, et cetera ad infinitum. I also get the darker side of that passion - the hysterics, to include a billow of dust from a door slammed pretty damned hard (so far, no thrown objects). I get the total lack of desire to handle money except when she's in the mood to buy a new pair of shoes. Oh yeah, I get the Russian mother-in-law too, and lemme' tell you, the lady loves it that her son-in-law gets hammered with her.

But most of all, I get the day-in-day-out joy of being married to somebody who will NEVER bore me, for better or worse, and whose passion for life matches my own. On that note, an aside to you, DaveUK - like you, I spent a certain amount of time living in my home country AFTER I had spent enough time in Russia to get the feel of life here, and my time away from here was one of the most distressing of my entire life.

I am a very happy man, and I give Russia credit in too many ways to count, starting with my favorite one of her ladies.

DaveUK1965
30-10-2003, 13:09
Hehee ! Thank GOD you didn`t class me as a lady, Sfjohns. ;-))

Very similar experiences. Apart from the mother in law (mine was lovely) - same timeline, nearly - and - what happened to you - light side/ dark side - was, I`m pretty much sure, what was going to happen to me. I think that the explanation there was that it`s partially stress relief for being an expat. I also lived abroad, too. Holland and Germany, and I know the danger signals from my own experience.......

Hehee ! Russia. Love it or hate it. There`s no middle ground. Strangely, I love it - I`ve always been of the opinion that Russia temperamentally suits some people down the ground and is about as welcome as rabies for others. Like everything else, Russia is all in the mind and living there is very difficult for Westerners (especially provincial Russia, where I think your adventure took place, JL) - Russians will quote Tyuchevs` "Russia cannot be understood by the mind alone" at the drop of a hat - but - somehow that just suits me fine compared to boring, predictable Blighty. ;-))))) I think the personalities and fatalism prevalent in industrial England and industrial Russia are just the same - and - for some damn reason, I feel right at home in Volgograd. And I wish I could properly explain, but.......... damn it, I`m addicted. ;-))))))

And - Sfjohns, just like you, probably, becoming half Russian. We never expected THAT to happen, did we ? ;-)))))))))))

sfjohns67
30-10-2003, 14:54
Two cents (or pence or kopecks, what-EVER) into the hat once again...just to clarify, although my mom-in-law is laden with every possible stereotypical trait of mother-in-lawdome (trust me, I exaggerate not), she is very much a delightful lady in all possible positive respects, chief of which is her love toward her daughter and granddaughter. Plus the fun I have getting under my wife's collar by getting toasted with her mom.


And - Sfjohns, just like you, probably, becoming half Russian. We never expected THAT to happen, did we?

You're right, Dave, can't say I expected to become half Russian. What I do remember very distinctly, from around the time I was 11 years old, was that I just did not fit in with the rest of my crowd in America. Perhaps more exact would be for me to say I didn't HAVE a crowd at all. Having attended middle and high school with American rednecks, hispanics, preppies, sportos, basically all the social food groups, everybody pretty much seemed to me either ridiculous or overly strident. Once I set foot into this amazing, contradictory, beautiful country, though (Russia, for the dense lurker about) - "fish in water" or "found my niche" or pick your own cliche, I just felt immediately and without doubt that this is where I belong. Nothing but nothing since that very first moment has occurred to change my mind.

Interestingly, when I first got here, it was on a temporary trip as a Russian interpreter in the US military. You can probably imagine my dismay at the time, knowing I had to wait through the 6 years left on my contract before I could actually move here, and believe me, that was one of the first thoughts to cross my mind. Desperation does not even begin to adequately describe my emotions back then. Between Jun-99 and Sep-01, I spent 6 months or more of every year here, and my time here was a bittersweet mix of joy at being here and dismay that I would have to leave before long.

Fast-forward to today, and you can equally understand the little prayer of thanks I say each time I walk in the front door of my apartment in Perovo, where my Russian wife and my incredibly beautiful Russian-American (precedence of nationality on purpose) daughter greet me with smiles and kisses.

I don't have to leave anymore, and I neverevereverever forget that I truly AM living a fairytale!

Sheepy
30-10-2003, 17:20
Er hem...before you get all nasty about British women...perhaps i should remind u that the pretty little Russian "Dyevushka" you married not all that long ago will one day turn into a nagging washed-out washed-up beached whale completely paranoid about the number of beers you're consuming for breakfast. You want to know what your wife will a few years down the road???...just take a long, hard, look at her Babushka!!!

So glad I'm not a desparate expat male!!!

natalia_apple
30-10-2003, 23:31
first, I dont think he got NASTY about them
second, well, I tried to prove my point that there ARE very beautiful, stylish British women, but what could I do to persuade him?
Anyway, he has the right to have his own opinion...

DaveUK1965
31-10-2003, 03:10
Hehee ! Hiya Sheepy !

Ahh, Sheepy, wrong end of the stick, mate. I`m not an expat, I`m over here in the UK. Spent today flirting away with a gorgeous (UK) lady - and getting flirted back with - seriously. And yes, I AM at an age and circumstance - 38, no kids - when there`s quite a few UK girls around after me - ohhhhh, I`m not saying I get chased, but - if I wanted to - I could settle into a UK relationship with 100 times less hassle than a UK / RU one.

Sheepy, you may like to ask yourself why I don`t go for the easier option. Simple. As with SFJohns above - I am by mindset and precedence a "Russophile", and, if you`ve read the posts, having been in a long term Russian relationship before, I`m kind of half Russian. In fact, I`m just sitting here thinking "Gdye pepelnitsa ? " instead of "Where`s the ashtray ? "

I could subject myself to 100 times less work, stress, financial hardship and God knows what else by finding a UK girlfriend. Why don`t I, then ?

Simple. UK and Russian women are totally different, Sheepy. I have totally NOTHING against UK women - it`s just that I far prefer Russian ones - the Russian character, way of life - everything. God, I could go on and on about the reasons why, but - I`m not "desperate" at all, nor am I an expat nor am I denigrating UK girls. I think you`re missing the entire point of the threads, Sheepy - we`re talking about "Why do some people get into multicultural relationships" - well. They are, quite simply - wonderful. ;-)))))))

Aha, regarding "wifey turning into babooshka". ;-))))) Yep. ;-)))) My mother in law was wonderful. I`m not saying Russian women are by nature perfect - as well as it depending on individuals, Russian culture is pretty much different than UK culture and you wouldn`t believe the, er, interesting problems that can come up, but.... Sheepy, you`re jumping to conclusions here, mate. I`m not after some 18 year old devotchka - easy to find the wrong woman in Russia - and the post is "How easy is it to get a Russian WIFE"- look at the comments at the start of the thread - to find someone your own age with your own interests who is a partner for LIFE here in the UK is difficult enough - factor in the differences in culture, seperation, visa process - and finding someone from Russia who is a perfect match (and feels the same) is even more difficult....

Plus. ;-)) Lyudmila looked NORMAL - not special - at 34, I wouldn`t call her a dyevushka, and cornflakes are more my style at breakfast. ;-)))) Oh yeah, if you read the thread (always a good idea, Sheepy) - we didn`t get married - she didn`t want to complete the visa process and decided to stay in Russia. Whoever said it was easy to find someone in the former USSR - never tried it for himself. ;-)))))


Originally posted by Sheepy
Er hem...before you get all nasty about British women...perhaps i should remind u that the pretty little Russian "Dyevushka" you married not all that long ago will one day turn into a nagging washed-out washed-up beached whale completely paranoid about the number of beers you're consuming for breakfast. You want to know what your wife will a few years down the road???...just take a long, hard, look at her Babushka!!!

So glad I'm not a desparate expat male!!!

twaj
31-10-2003, 16:47
As much fun as you had with Lyud, you probably could have done better with the female population outside Moscow - I ran into a pudgy Canadian 30 year old who had a <<ravishing>> Belarussian wife at the Boar House about a month ago. Muscovite women tend to flock to money, not a foreign passport, but if you go to a lot of the other Russian cities and spend good time there you can find youngish women. Of course, with British women I've found that I've had better conversations - they don't think that either money is garbage or that they need 500 dollar cell phones, they don't insist on you buying their drinks, and they don't make silly requests involving visas. In fact, I'd gladly trade in my US passport for a UK one, if only to take a job in the NL... why did you leave Rotterdam, by the way?

natalia_apple
31-10-2003, 16:51
Originally posted by twaj
Of course, with British women I've found that I've had better conversations - they don't think that either money is garbage or that they need 500 dollar cell phones, they don't insist on you buying their drinks, and they don't make silly requests involving visas.

and all the Russian wonen need 500 cell phones, etc....?

DaveUK1965
31-10-2003, 19:36
Hiya Twaj !

Aaaah - Lyudmila WAS from outside Moscow - Volgograd, mate. A great place where I had a lot of fun. ;-)) Trouble is that some provincial girls - I don`t think she was - see the world through a letterbox... but the problems we had were due to the "visa now" stage and the "everything or nothing" mentality. No no, a lovely girl - just, er, with the tendency to go FOU despite reason or logic - I got quite happily twisted around her little finger at times, but you`d find that it was more balanced a relationship than you`d imagine. ;-)))))) I still think she made a mistake, but - sometimes you have to let people go their own way.

Rotterdam !! Company folded, Twaj ! There were only about a dozen of us working our backsides off doing development work for a major shipping company - two got pregnant, one moved up - one went home, followed by the rest of us after that. ;-)) Rotterdam`s a great place - I don`t know anyone who didn`t like it - love to go back but I reckon my next trip abroad will be Roosia. Hopefully to a job - maybe not - something coming up here, soon- but I shall return, wreathed in glory (ha) to Russia one day...

toka1111
31-10-2003, 23:04
Originally posted by mjhamson
If you think that Prenups have any real merit in the States... THINK AGAIN!
The fact is that they really do not hold much ground in most states...

My understanding so far was that when spouses go to court in the US, prenups do have more legal power over divorce laws, no matter where, in what state, the divorce case was filed. Or, why would people go for prenups at all, what's the point?? But surely I am not an expert...

twaj
01-11-2003, 00:00
I saw a guy hit his girlfriend yesterday near the metro - it struck me (no pun intended) that I've wanted to hit too many of the girls I'd dated but never stuck around long enough to give in to the urge. I remember that Lyud was from Stalingrad - and the story about the guy who wanted you to repair his car...foo...

DaveUK1965
01-11-2003, 00:28
Originally posted by toka1111
My understanding so far was that when spouses go to court in the US, prenups do have more legal power over divorce laws, no matter where, in what state, the divorce case was filed. Or, why would people go for prenups at all, what's the point?? But surely I am not an expert...

Point is, no matter where the case is settled, the ultimate power is supposed to reside with the court. Divorces rarely end with amicable agreement if the husband and wife are just left to it.... over here, a prenuptial agreement isn`t worth the paper it`s printed on.

earl
20-11-2003, 12:02
Originally posted by toka1111
My understanding so far was that when spouses go to court in the US, prenups do have more legal power over divorce laws, no matter where, in what state, the divorce case was filed. Or, why would people go for prenups at all, what's the point?? But surely I am not an expert...

In the USA, it depends on how quickly the marriage ends. Less than 5 years, and the prenup is heavily considered by divorce court. More than 5 years, and the significance drops. The judge will also consider how the couple managed their finances -- typically, the rule is if you want a prenup to hold, you have to keep the finances fairly separate, ie clear contributions from both parties to the expense account, etc.

Finally, all 50 states do things differently, so depending exactly where you end up in divorce court, you may be in community property state (I live in one such) where, almost no matter what, anything purchased during the course of the marriage is split 50/50 upon termination of the marriage. This is both good and bad -- any property is shared, but so are any debts.

Then there are the generally acrimonious issues of alimony/palimony payments, and of course child support. Plus the courts in the USA tend to be pretty biased against men. For those of you not from around here, if a man and woman divorce, the likelihood is she will get the children (a problem for the man if he likes his children), the house, and (especially if she wasn't working) payments from the man to maintain their lifestyle before the divorce. This doesn't include child support, so it is not uncommon for a man to get divorced and end up sending more than 1/2 his monthly income to his ex-spouse.

With this in mind, it is no secret why more and more men choose not to get married in the USA. Hell, even if you end up having children while not being married, if you live together less than 7 years before breaking up, a man is only liable for child support, not child support + alimony.

Again, for foreigners, America takes child support pretty seriously. If someone doesn't make court-ordered child support payments, an ex can have them garnished from your wages -- ie removed by your employer before what is left over is given to you. People are regularly put in prison for failing to make child support payments, and they money owed to the ex accrues while in prison.

-earl-

Wanderer
21-11-2003, 15:36
dear baby - girl

I reckon its pretty easy to get a russian bird.
I managed it (she approached me) OK. She is an absolute beauty from Kyrgyzstan. I was and am in love with her. She with me.
Trouble is i'm married (and I told her all this up front) and she is now to another brit. She has what she wants : nice hubby and house in UK and a new baby to boot (not mine thank heavens) .

The thing is I really wish her well. But I can't see the marriage lasting because her english is not improving and she surrounds herself with russians / kyrgyz who live in UK or come over to visit alot. She ain't integrating - a pity as he has a big close trad english family.
She has got 50% of the house, access to his dough (whoop ! whoop !! Danger !!! Danger !!! I hear you cry).
In her (previous) circumstances I would have done the same.
Good luck darlin' : I am always here if you need me.

DaveUKagain
21-11-2003, 17:42
Me, back again for a short while..... ;-))

Whilst I`ve been "decorating" - started talking to the Russian community over here. Some very nice folks, I`m having a nice time. ;-)))))

Few points about Russians in the UK. Quite a few people have mentioned that when Russian women come to the UK - this`s appropriate for any other country - they come with an unrealistic level of expectation which soon leads to disappointment, resentment and the wish to return home. Quite a few of the ladies don`t realise how difficult it is to live in a totally foreign environment, a long way away from Russia, friends, family..... home. A few people I`ve spoken to have said that a large proportion of UK <>RU couples aren`t happy - nearly everyone`s said that the process of a Russian woman settling in abroad is MUCH harder than you`d imagine. (And I`m so glad to see Baby-Girl is doing so well. ;-))))) )

Few more things which came up in general conversation. Briefly, some Russian girls marry anyone "semi-suitable" to get out of a difficult life in Russia ..... and end up overwhelmed abroad, suddenly realising that life in the West ain`t the paradise it`s cracked up to be..... if you`re 4000km from home, unable to speak English properly, with no idea of how the system works, worried about friends and family and feeling GUILTY at having left them behind..... can`t work for six months, when you do, it`ll be in a shoe shop because of your limited English (and you have a PhD back home) - sitting at home in a foreign country all day with nothing to do - even the TV is in English.......

..... woooooo boy, problems are around the corner. ;-)))

The girls who marry for love - not gratitude - seem to do fine. The strength of a relationship gets them through it. The girls who marry "any semi-suitable foreigner" thinking that they can change him when they get to the UK (where the streets are paved with gold) ...... tend not to do fine at all.

Sorry to hear about your girlfriend not integrating, Wanderer - it`s a baaaaaaaad sign. My former fiancee would just NOT learn English and thought she`d step off the plane to a land of milk and honey and a lecturing job. I always knew that there was no way I could explain reality to her and the only way to do it was to come here, let her fall flat and then pick her up and get her through it.... didn`t happen.

Don`t get someone who`s looking to ESCAPE from anything. Also remember that the girls on the dating sites are EXTREMELY single minded and purposeful and wish to achieve something - if the applecart gets upset by you losing your job (for example) mid way through the settling in process- you may find yourself sidelined for someone else with more chance of delivering that rose-bedecked cottage, 2.4 kids and a nice idyllic life. I would now NEVER go for anyone off the dating sites - I meet tons of educated, intelligent and fluent Russian women who are already IN England.

And if you don`t understand or are at least interested in Russian culture - you`ll run out of things to talk about pretty damn quick...

The point here is that a lot of men seem to forget that you HAVE to assess your potential fiancee and think "Is she actually going to integrate ? " If not........ you are spending time and money to bring someone here only to create mutual heartache and potentially a divorce settlement. Some of the girls - who marry for love - do fine. But. If the original question is "How easy is it to get a Russian girl ? "- well - the long term answer is that it`s easy to get the wrong one..... but the right one is - very special indeed. ;-)))))

Be REALISTIC or reality WILL bite you. It did with me. Won`t happen again. ;-)))) "How easy is it to get a Russian wife ? " Not easy at all. ;-)))))))

Wanderer
21-11-2003, 18:41
Nicely put DaveUKagain.

Someone somewhere mentioned about the 'black / white' or 'all or nothing' approach by some Russian ladies.
I had that too. When she got frustrated with me for not divorcing and marrying her straight away - I told her why. In this day & age without at least going on 2 weeks holiday together, spending time in the intended land of domicile together etc jumping into marriage is frankly really risky (for both parties of course).

But that seems to be the deal for many folk.

Nevertheless, marrying a foreign national must (i am sure) be a real romantic and exciting adventure of love if they are open minded and flexible to make it all work.
I'd give it a try.

DaveUKagain
25-11-2003, 11:48
Actually, ABC, if you read the post properly, the lady imported a Dutch boyfriend whilst extracting money out of me...... and married him. I`m now considering legal action against her for fraud - she quite forgot I have friends in the Aliens Police in Holland. ;-))))

One point you are totally missing is shown by the Dutch boyfriends` inability to listen to ME. ;-))))) The fact that he`s had all the necessary proof in the form of dated letters, Western Union slips and cards which shows that he was being two-timed at the same time I was shows one thing - love is blind. You are also forgetting two things - ANYONE can lie to ANYONE at 2500 km distance, and - if you have a shred of moral integrity yourself then a "poor little Russian girl in difficult circumstances" is hard to ignore. I lived with the lady for over a year in two countries - just when you think you know someone, eh ? ;-)))))))

Anyone can turn and change and decide to safeguard their own interests - at which point a "Poor little Roosian girl" will say "Oh, he`s a Rich Westerner, he can afford it". The trick is to see it coming. ;-))))

By the way, if you read the posts it is quite obvious that I KNOW what I`m talking about when it comes to Russian women and long distance relationships - the point is that anyone can defraud anyone. It`s great to stand back and issue comments from outside a situation, but I guarantee you that when you`re emotionally enmeshed it is just slighty more difficult to see the woods from the trees.

" I think Russian women are greedy, corrupt, always on the look out for the bigger, better deal for themselves and are not to be trusted under any circumstances!! "

- a very cynical quote, and obviously not true of all Russian women, but I can see all her friends who got to the West - that`s all of them, folks - getting ready to change husbands. One of them even has an ICQ profile where she "forgets" to mention she`s married but leaves her cell phone number in.. not every Russian girl is greedy and corrupt, I know lots of good ones over here, but - marrying a Russian lady certainly makes for an interesting life. ;-)))))

DaveUKagain
25-11-2003, 12:25
Always pays to read the posts to the end ABC.

As for your comment that anyone after a Russian woman is just importing "a piece of ass" - afraid you`re wrong there, mate. ;-) You see, there IS such a thing as a multi-cultural relationship and I`m a confirmed Russophile - despite everything. ;-))) "A piece of ass" is a very cynical view which will allow you to react in one way - the "safe" way - but. At the end of the day, if you "import someone" into your own home country, you`ll find that sooner or later, the wrong girl WILL - in the most subtle way possible - rip you completely off.

If you read ALL the threads before this one, you`ll get the real picture of what happened to me. ;-))))) Believe you me, mass deception and a totally unavoidable situation.

The moral of the story is - get the right girl. ;-))))) I`m now part of the Russian community here in the UK in Manchester - and there are any number of nice, professional, fluent, financially independent girls over here. Easier to associate with them rather than risk another overseas relationship. But there ARE a hell of a lot of truly nice, pleasant, NORMAL Russian ladies out there looking for someone pleasant to share their lives with. I speak Russian, understand Russian culture, history and traditions, and - despite everything, I`ll still be (half) looking for a Russian lady - yes, I COULD get an English girl, I`m an old charmer and never had many difficulties in getting a girlfriend - the point is that "How easy is it to get a Russian wife" ???

Much more difficult that to get one of your own nationality in your own country. ;-)))))) But the good Russian girls really are special. ;-))))))))

DaveUKagain
25-11-2003, 12:50
ABC, I *do* know what I`m talking about. ;-)))))))) There are a lot of Russian girls here in the UK in relationships and very happy indeed. I know a lot of them. Good for them. You can`t say "All Russian women are the same" it`s blatantly untrue.

The problem is the "internet dating game" - which is the biggest minefield ever. AVOID. Meet face to face and get to know for a long time or just find something better to do. ;-)))))

(With about 1200 posts here and GOD knows how many on the old board) - see if you agree with these thoughts about the weighty matter of "How to marry a Russian lady") ;-)))))

(1) Remember that the NORM in Russia is a hard life and a fair percentage of women on dating sites are looking for a better one.

(2) Outside of Moscow / St Pete, it is statistically more likely that a lady will have a harder life, and therefore equally statistically likely that she`ll be..... a little more interested in "getting out of Russia".

(3) A fair number of girls on the dating sites are after one thing - to obtain a better life for themselves. They are extremely single minded in this approach and if you think that kind of person will stop looking for a better life once they reach your home shores..... think again. Some blacklists typify this kind of woman as a "trader" - someone who will trade their way up a social ladder for better and better lifestyles.

(4) It IS - once emotionally involved- incredibly easy to get burnt. And you will never know what`s happening on the other end of the phone line.

(5) The dynamics of the situation with some "bad" girls is that you will always be seen as the "rich Westerner". NEVER SEND MONEY - EVER - easier said than done, if you`re engaged and someone out there "needs a serious operation". It may be true. The nightmare scenario is that you`ll never know if that`s true or not.

(6) Anyone who is looking to "escape Russia" should be avoided like the plague - the next person they`ll escape is YOU. Eventually.

(7) Assess - brutally - your fiancee`s ability to fit into life in your own country. If she`s a pretty face and doesn`t speak English, she won`t be able to work for 2 plus years, during which time she will need supporting 100%. She`ll come over with three suitcases and you buy the rest. There is also NO guarantee she`ll be able to learn English. Any doubts are fatal - simple reason is that in the US, you`re responsible for 10 years of her social security payments. In the UK, you have to marry within 6 months.

(8) A lot of Russian women think the West is paradise and that they`re coming to a rose bedecked cottage and don`t have to work any more - and will be looked after for the rest of their lives. A very good reason to get the RIGHT person. At least 50% of UK <>RU couples are unhappy. Getting the right person sees you through the incredibly difficult process of settling into a new environment which is nothing like Russia.

(9) There are also large numbers of "good girls" out there. In Moscow and St Pete there are a lot of professional, educated girls with a good life in Russia. The original thread poster is one. (And I`m really happy for her and her boyfriend) ;-)))))

(10) If you`re not prepared to pick up some of your wifes` language, culture, traditions and go back to Russia with her now and then......... don`t look for a multicultural relationship, it won`t work.

And with all that in mind, that`s why I`m only concentrating on the many NICE Russian girls here in the UK at the moment. ;-))))) There are lots of good girls in Russia, lots of good and bad in the UK, but..... I`m playing SAFE.

DaveUKagain
25-11-2003, 13:58
Hehee ! Thanks, ABC. ;-)))))

You`re 100% right - the problem is that it`s a case of Western men understanding Russian women. ;-))))) The cultures are SO different and the environments are the same. I`ve been to Russia, I`ve been an expat twice, and I can see both sides of the cultural divide...... a girl from a village east of the Urals can`t. ;-)))

The dating game is a total con - I`d never go near ANYONE who put their profile on a dating site again, unfortunately. There are some good girls there - there are lots of bad ones. How Western men think that they can meet someone for two weeks and then spend a happy life with them afterwards is quite beyond me. ;-))) Still..... isn`t the illusion great ? ;-)))))

ABC, I`ve got lots of friends in Russia. They all heard about my ex fiancee and were horrified - they didn`t know what she was doing, either. A lot of her friends were disgusted, too. A very sneaky young lady. ;-))))))) A lot of my good friends there said "Look, next time you`re here, meet Katya / Elena/ Svetlana, they`re good girls, friends of the family, you`ll like them. " I`m SURE they are, and it`ll be great to meet some people next time I`m in Russia, but you just said something TOO true - the cultural differences are massive, the expectations gigantic and - it`s easy to give up, get on the plane and go home if the UK doesn`t live up to their expectations. It`s one hell of a gamble to take. ;-))))

Well. The happy news is that most of the girls in England at the moment work at the Universities. They get a good wage, they`re intelligent, fluent in English, and 8km away. ;-))))) UK men seem to get on fine with Russian ladies - I go to the meetings and get big smiles and charming conversation, and it`s really nice. ;-)))) The men at the meeting are great to sit down, have a drink with and govoreet po - rooskiy - so !!!!! I think I`ll just do that and see what happens. ;-))))) "I`m just there for the beer and the chat". ;-)))) If someone else comes along and she`s Russian, fine. English ? Equally fine. ;-)))))

But. As for the skazka of internet dating.... it CAN work, I`ve seen it, but it`s all luck. And "lucky" was never my middle name. ;-)))))))

I don`t know about another planet, I think my former fiancee was from another universe. ;-))))) But I think she`ll have had a very rude awakening about the realities of life in Holland - someone elses` problem, not mine. ;-)))))) It all works out equal in the end. ;-))) I just got the wrong one...... easily, easily done- happens to us all once or twice, and - oooo, the wrong English girlfriends I`ve had, too. ;-)))))))))))) One day I`ll learn. ;-)))) I think...... ;-)))))

natalia_apple
25-11-2003, 15:09
Nice avatar, Dave!

Tinka
25-11-2003, 15:58
Due to a chance I had an opportunity to listen to 19 stories of those looking for a romance or friendship (it was the old Expat)
People were very positive, full of hope and happy with the very process of search. And only two (including myself) were luckly to find fantastic and long-term relationship. I don't know why but now the process of search is not that active. It is very sad because it really works.

DaveUKagain
25-11-2003, 17:21
Privet Tinka ! Pozdravlyaem ! ;-))))

Really nice to hear you met someone. Congratulations !! ;-))))))

Wow, this has been a long, long thread - which I think shows how difficult things can be to find the *right* person- but that`s life - finding the right person isn`t easy, is it ?

When you mix in all the difficulties of a cross -cultural relationship, it`s even more difficult, of course. But. If you find the right person - it`s all worth it. ;-)))))

I think the Dalai Lama once said that "Great undertakings require great risk". It`s true. ;-))))) From either side of the fence, a foreign man finding a Russian lady requires great risk - on his side of the equation, there`s time, expense, possible divorce - which is very expensive and risky - on her side of the fence, if it all works, she has to go to a completely different country thousands of kilometres away from home, friends, family, culture and - start life all over again. Most of the girls don`t realise how hard that is - it is the *hardest* thing to do in the world and it can break your heart with ease.

I think that- on both sides of the equation, people jump in feet first and then learn later. ;-))))) It`s certainly very, very difficult to find someone RIGHT- no matter where they are. If any girls are reading this and thinking about finding the love of their life outside of Russia..... my advice is simple. FIND THE RIGHT PERSON- go for love, not because you have to. Finding the right person who understands how much support is needed for a Russian lady new to life in the West is completely critical. Anyone can find the wrong person - when you DO get to the West - whether you stay or not depends on the strength of your relationship with someone. Problems aren`t problems if you are fundamentally happy with someone - and they are with you.

If you meet the wrong person - and convince yourself he`s fine.... imagine this for stress - you are thousands of kilometres away from friends, family, relatives, Russia, Russian culture - with language difficulties, no money of your own, no job - feeling lonely, upset, overwhelmed..... and..... if you married someone thinking "he`s nearly right for me, I`ll change him" - after six months, with all that stress - you won`t be able to stand the sight of him - nor will he be able to stand the sight of you.

Don`t do it. Be honest and realistic or reality WILL come along one day and it`s a terrible dissapointment.

Life in the West - and I know some girls find this hard to believe - is NOT paradise. In Russia, women have a much better social life, no problems with understanding other Russians or "normal everyday life" - life over here in England or the US is just.... different. Very. The stresses of life are just the same..... the world REALLY is the same all over. Having a bigger house and a car means they all have to be paid for. There IS no skazka here. Or if there is, the novelty will soon get very tiresome. And then what you are left with is the person you married. ;-))))) Which is - or should be - the most important thing.

A big house and a car...... is just a big house and a car. They will definitely not make you happy and after a month you won`t even notice them. However, you may be working like a dog for 25 years to pay for them. ;-))))) The stresses and pressures here are COMPLETLY different. If you think about it, Russia and the West are the same - same people - it`s only the system which is different. Meeting the system for the first time is a BIG shock. ;-))))

It CAN work. Go into it with an open mind and an open heart and be LUCKY. ;-))))) But. It`s better to be very honest and very realistic and to remember that there is no paradise over here - comparative, yes, life IS easier here, but it`s all a balancing act. The West is not a place where dreams become true and you step off the plane to a perfect job and a very easy life- you step off the plane to no job and a very very very difficult time to adjust to life in another world, really. But - when it all works - well. It`s what we`re all looking for in life- so !!!!! Good luck to you all and I hope the skazka does come true. ;-))))) But be REALISTIC or reality will come around and bite you. ;-))))))))) And that is all from experience..... ;-)))

DaveUKagain
25-11-2003, 17:54
That one was for the ladies. For the men ? ;-))))

An example. A few years ago, a byooootiful Russian lady appeared in the UK engaged to someone I know. Getting off the plane she announced that she didn`t intend to live with him, and now she was here, he could buy her a place of her own. ;-)))))

One flight back later....... ;-)))))

Another example ? Friend of my friend went abroad. Came back four months later - "I cannot learn the bloody language !! " she told her. "Impossible". ;-)))))

There`s a few basic problems (most of which are mentioned above) with the "mail order bride" idea.... horrible phrase. ;-)) First and foremost, there`s any number of self delusional men out there who think that they can just go off and find a stunning sexpot of a girl 25 years younger than themselves, import them to their country from Roosya and - problem solved, they don`t even have to go there.

Fantasy. ;-))))) I came across a site on the net once with foreign men actually doing much the same thing with Thai bar girls. ;-)))) Absolutely INCREDIBLE. ;-))))) Well, the attitude is "I get what I want, she gets what she wants"..... I think that the men generally found that they got..... exactly what they deserved. ;-)))))

The visa process is tortuous to get anyone OUT of Russia to even visit your country (the supposition being that an Eastern European woman will overstay any visa) - the richer, professional girls CAN get a visa, by the way - but they`re unlikely to be offered a fiancee visa unless you`ve PERSONALLY GONE TO RUSSIA AND MET THEM. Amazingly, a fair proportion of men don`t realise this- they just pick out the prettiest face on the net and tend to forget she`s in the middle of Siberia, waaaaaaay over yonder. ;-))))) Russia is very bad for international flights and you will basically find you have to fly via SPB, Moscow or Vladivostok - you can`t fly direct. Bring Money. ;-)))))

The old figures used to be that 1 in 800 men who wrote to Russian women actually went to Moscow or St Pete - for the provinces, the figures were 1 in 1500. You may say, "Hell, I`ll go"- talk`s cheap. ;-)))))

The girls have a huge problem in imagining what life is like in the West - they think that you have endless cash and can go immediately. You of course have a fixed income and only so much holiday time. Try and explain that. Your Russian fiancee also is a very emotional creature and will pressurise the bejesus out of you to go and see her / get her to the West, etc. ;-)))))) Everything tends to be viewed in a very simplistic manner, and don`t try explaining, it doesn`t work. ;-))))))

If you DO go..... my advice is "Go and see a friend". NOTHING MORE. No commitment. You hardly know her. ;-))))) The reason I say this is that I fell into the easily done "holiday romance" trap. The OTHER danger is that you will get yourself into a situation where you, as a responsible male, will think "What a hard life my fiancee has, I have to help." She managed fine without you beforehand. Do NOT send money, it`s fatal, no matter what the reason, it sets a precedent and WILL lead to a dependency culture and sulking and resentment if you turn the monetary tap off. And. Since the visa process is long and we`re in the middle of a recession, folks..... there`s no guarantees that the tap will be capable of being left open.

DaveUKagain
25-11-2003, 18:03
Part two for the fellas. ;-))))

If and when your fiancee gets to your home country - you can simply not imagine what she`ll go through. Having been an expat before, well, I DO have an idea, but it`s much harder for Russian women......

...... total cultural isolation. Russians have VERY close knit families and it`s not unusual for families to live for generations in the same apartment. The move is utterly MASSIVE.

A lot of men make zero preparation for it. ;-))))) If I ask you a question - could you live for six months watching just Russian language television ? No. So. That means your fiancee can`t spend six months watching US television, either. ;-))))) That has to be budgeted for - I saw a posting on a newsgroup once which said,

"Americans beware ! Your Russian wife will come to the US and try and make your house into a little corner of Russia..... "

.... what the HELL did the poster expect ? ;-))))))) For the first six months (at the very least) you`re going to be responsible for someone whose need for support is MASSIVE. Comparable to that of a small, overwhelmed child. (Seriously, girls, sorry.) I know Russian girls who came here and cried every day for six months and wanted nothing more than to go HOME. It is the NORM rather than the exception. Your fiancee will also come with 15kg of clothes and you buy everything else. Language lessons. Clothing. Transport. Entertainment. Phone calls home. The LOT.

How stable is your job and how much spare cash do you have ?? Factor in flights home every few months (or she`ll go nuts) - the excuse here is "She`s Russian, she`s used to less" - no, fellas, she may not have been on a fortune at home but it`s all comparative and your fiancee will have had a pretty good life and be used to a certain level of comfort.

I met a UK <> RU couple once where she`d come over to find he DIDN`T have his own business, and they were trying to survive on 250 ($350) a month. Back home she went.

DaveUKagain
25-11-2003, 18:14
Part 3.

US Rules. Marry your fiancee, you pay social security benefits for her for 10 years.

UK Rules. Marry your fiancee within six months or she goes home.

Schengen visa rules - invite someone over, live with them.... you can marry them, whatever, but citizenship is not guaranteed until the girls have been there for up to 5 years, I think. ;-)) Still, you end up paying for everything, folks.

Integration.

OK, so you`ve got your lady here, she`s settling in..... some girls - honestly - have terrible problems learning your language or how to fit into your culture. Some don`t. ;-))))) Some are totally resentful of the fact that they had a PhD job in Russia and now- due to fluency problems- can`t get a job in a shoe shop in the UK or wherever.

The girls who are NOT fluent are NOT going to learn English by magic. You are going to have to give them a level of support equal to that of a child learning English in some cases. Think you`ve got the patience ??? ;-)))))

Later. Psychological problems CAN come up. The best way I heard this described was "irrational behaviour". I`ve seen a few couples go through this stage...... not pleasant. Basically, reality hits home with some of the ladies - the ones who think the West is Best - glowering resentment sets in. Big time. If your relationship ain`t watertight, it`ll spring a leak. The only way to avoid these problems is to put wifey back on a plane home to Russia with a big kiss and let her come back when she`s fine and had some R&R back home. This all costs money, by the way - and it means your wifes` income (if she has one) is not stable. You have to sacrifice her job for your relationship at times - she just HAS to get on a plane and go back......... or go NUTS. ;-))))))

And those are just SOME of the problems, fellas. ;-)))) If you`re looking for a pretty face.... look locally. If you`re prepared to go through all of this whilst learning to understand your wifes` culture and traditions (and language too) - fine - there y`go ! ;-))) But. Multicultural relationships are WONDERFUL - just please dispense with the notion that they`re easy. You`ll both go through hell. Twice. ;-)))))))))

I could go on and on and on..... oh. I AM doing. ;-))))))))

DaveUKagain
25-11-2003, 18:17
....... and all that assumes you meet THE RIGHT PERSON.

Woooo !!! . ;-))))))))

Tinka
25-11-2003, 18:27
Want to say a lot but have no time now - You are fantastic - adore you!!!!!!!!!!

DaveUKagain
25-11-2003, 18:39
Oh-ohhhh......... ;-))))))))))

Tinka, thank you kindly. ;-)))))))

Honestly, folks..... this is the way it is. Reality.

What happened with me was that my fiancee got impatient with "Stupid hoosbant who hasn`t job, ees easy, fou ! " - and then goes off and just tricks me. For 18 months. Stupidity. ;-))))) Yes, we SHOULD have split up and I should have let her go her own way - in fact I suggested it, but was kept as insurance and a cash cow whilst she developed someone in Holland - behind my back. ;-)))))

Morality is subjective to some people and good depends on what they personally get out of it. ;-)))))))))

According to my fiancee (as I thought she was ! ;-)) ) life in England was paradise, y`see. There was never a recession. There was never problems with money or bills or anything and life was a simple matter of getting here and then making England fit the expected model of Paradise On Earth. ;-)))))

Except, back in the real world......... ;-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Thank GOD for the IT recession. It showed me that I`d made the wrong choice. She`s now in Holland, and I think that reality will be teaching her a thing or two...... she MAY be happy. I don`t know. It doesn`t appear so. But - I hope her husband has thought of all of this or she will be dreadfully unhappy through unrealistic aspirations - and she`ll make HIM dreadfully unhappy, too.

But there y`go - reality catches up with all of us. Better to take a realistic approach in the first place.

Fiancees from Russia. ;-))))))) The trouble is that it is NOT easy and you have to be utterly realistic, trust your partner entirely and be patient. Getting someone to your country (or getting OUT of Russia) is the easy bit....... staying OUT with the right person is so difficult.

It ALL boils down to whether or not two people are right for each other and committed enough to go through everything above AND will adapt and change and sacfrifice for each other. IF that`s not going to happen, you`re on an eventual losing streak, months or more likely years later and tens of thousands of pounds / dollars down the road.

It can work, it does work, there are plenty of couples in the UK and US and Europe who have MADE it work but it WILL be the hardest thing you`ve both ever done in your lives. And you have to WORK at it every day and with total faith and trust and pray that you`ve found the right person. Because what happens will put a blow torch to any relationship and show up ANY faults there are. Guaranteed.

baby-girl
28-11-2003, 02:58
Dave!!
Glad to see u back!
Very brave of u.
Well done.
Can I answer on my own q?
So... how easy is it to get a rus gf? -
Much more dificult than to get an english bf.


;)

DaveUKagain
28-11-2003, 03:09
Baby-girl ! Mwah ! -x-x-x- big potselooy and it`s lovely to be back. How`re you ? ;-)))))))

You`re right, it`s easy to get a Russian girlfriend - much more difficult than to get an English boyfriend. Mind you, for Russian women in Russia, Englishmen are hard to find ! - for Englishmen in England, Russian women are hard to find, too. ;-)))))

I also think that English people tend to be..... well, wary of different cultures. We don`t REALLY have a massive amount of predjudice here, compared to some places, but we tend to keep ourselves to ourselves - do you think that`s right ? And we`re very cynical and tend to imagine the worst.

But. If you meet the right person, it`s all worth it. ;-))) Some people LIKE multicultural relationships.......

What did I do yesterday ? Came home, baked some Russian apple cakes (there`s my first attempt below) - wondered if I could make cranberry vodka with Smirnoff and cranberry juice - logged on to Expat and read a Tolstoy short story. ;-))))) And I keep kidding myself that my next girlfriend will be English. ;-))))))))))))))

Wanderer
28-11-2003, 11:41
The observant amongst you will remember my short tale regarding a Kyrgyz girlfriend I had in Moscow a couple of years back. We are still friends. She has married a brit and is living here with hubby, new baby and first child (12 year old). I phone her up every 6-8 weeks for a chat and to make sure she's ok. Her english after 11 months doesn't seem to be improving and she has yet another of her sisters staying (until Feb 04 apparently). This sister is 43 with a 10yr old son, and they are looking for an english husband for her. This is the second sister to come over with a sprogg looking for a husband. They see her in her 290, 000 pound house with new mercedes on the drive and think 'i'll have some of that'. Understandable I suppose. I wonder what hubby thinks.....
The plan is for me and her to have lunch next week (we live approx 3 hours apart) so I will get all the news then.
If anyone's interested I will let you know how the integration / marriage is going.

DaveUKagain
28-11-2003, 13:40
Yep, definitely WOULD be interested to know, Wanderer. ;-)

Some girls just don`t seem to be able to learn English no matter what. After extracting a fortune off me for "English lessons", my fiancee of course decided to two time me and put an ad on a dating site - I read through it and her English hadn`t changed one jot since I`d first met her. ;-))))) She`d got some great new clothes, though. ;-))))))

Why bother to learn English in your own country when you can go to England and have someone pay for lessons for you ? She had every opportunity in the book. Looking back, I should have been hard as nails and said, "Look, I`m not going to support you for years whilst you learn English here, you`ve had every opportunity going - are you going to learn English or not ?? "

She now THINKS she`ll learn Dutch in Holland, too. I doubt it. ;-)) Experience seems to show otherwise and Dutch is much more difficult for Russians to learn - especially when you start learning it at 35 years old. In a stressful environment.

It`s the same parallel as SOME of the men who just pick the prettiest face off the dating sites and imagine that`s all there is too it - some girls seem to think "Oh, I`m going to the UK / the US and it`s all going to be paradise, I won`t have to work, my husband will support me, I can just have children and look after them..... "

I had several dates over here since and most turned out to be (UK) single mothers who`d not bothered to work for 15 years - not even part time. There were childcare facilities available, creches, and the option to work was always there. Not the kind of person I`m looking for, I`m afraid. ;-))) Independent of nationality.

Interesting comment about the house. Most men tend SERIOUSLY looking for Russian wives tend to be late thirties, professional, settled in a career and with the mortgage well in hand. It makes them absolutely vulnerable insofaras - they have something to lose to any shark that comes along. ;-))))) Yep, you`re right, Wanderer, some girls see the big house, the big car, forget the gigantic amount of work that`s gone into it and just want to be adopted into an easy life. It`s not a "multicultural relationship", of course, nor is it "marrying for love"..........

Story I got told by a Russian friend of mine in her late 30`s was that her parents` generation were told that marriage was the ideal, you COULD get divorced but it was frowned on. According to her, it`s very easy to get a divorce nowadays and the stigma just isn`t there. So people DO split up more often in Russia. She was also saying that with some people, divorce is looked on as a legitimate way to get on in life. Frightening thought, eh ? ;-))))))

Wanderer
28-11-2003, 14:34
Dave - interestingly he is young 40, she is 28. He was living with his previous girlfriend (ie not married) for a very long time. Get the picture ?
As previously mentioned, I really hope it works out. My intrigue is driven I suppose, because we were very fond of each other and the marriage thing for us was what she wanted, but I was dead cautious because of all the things we are talking about on this topic.
Trouble is , she's a REAL looker: a beauty.
watch this space

DaveUKagain
28-11-2003, 14:36
Got the picture, Wanderer. ;-)))) And look forwards to reading the update. ;-)))))

Exactly the same situation as my ex is in - she just decided to get spliced to someone in Holland. Five years to citizenship for her, by the way...... over here? You marry `em within six months and after a year, they can stay permanently.

And don`t have to learn a third language to be able to work. ;-))))

Wanderer
28-11-2003, 19:40
We went to a wedding in July - the best mate of my ex bird married a Frenchie. At the wedding meal, we sat next to what one could describe as a 'high class escort'. She was Russian, married to a Belgian. She spoke Russian , Flemish (or is that phlegmish), and English. Guess what ? She had been in Belgium with hubby for 5 years and was getting a D.I.V.O.R.C.E.
Why ? I asked : she said there was one thing about him she didn't like, and there was one thing about her he didn't like.

The 5 year itch.

boom boom : theres one born every minute.

DaveUKagain
29-11-2003, 00:35
;)

Hehee !

So. Friend of my "fiancee" - worked with her - goes over to Holland. I meet her and HER fiancee. She`s short, fat, stupid and pushy, he`s a geek with crrrrrrazy teeth and he`s "bonkers in the nut". ;-))))

Odd couple. ;-)))))

Anyway, this nice young flower of Post Soviet Womanhood is the one who seems to have talked MY "fiancee" into finding a new fella in Holland. I decide to go and say cruel cruel words to this architect of the whole scenario - she`s been there about 4 years now.....

Track her down on ICQ and !!!!! Guess what ? Her profile shows her photo, e-mail address, mobile phone number *but doesn`t mention she`s married*. ;-)))))

So she`s up to exactly the same thing, Wanderer. ;-))))) Find someone semi-suitable, lie through their teeth to them to get out of poverty, get taken over to Europe, set up with a house, learn Dutch and THEN jump ship for someone "better". ;-))))

I`d almost feel sorry for her husband if he`d not obviously colluded in MY downfall. The biter bit, eh ? ;-))))) Little does he know - little am I inclined to tell him. ;-))))))

The excuse is always "He`s a rich westerner", as if that makes it morally acceptable behaviour. A whole nest of vipers, folks...... and this is what happens if you play the White Knight - even inadvertently, by thinking, "I have financial and emotional and moral responsibilities to this lady as she has NOTHING in Russia".

Then, to be tough - if she has nothing and you walk out in suspicion, she still has nothing and loses nothing.

Well, honestly, I`m not surprised to hear about that "courtesan". God only knows what the fella was thinking - but it just goes to show, find the right person or get bitten five years on. The WRONG girl will stew you alive and then rip you to shreds in a divorce court. Bye bye house, hello maintenance.

So I find someone here. And I am *not* going to rush into marriage. No chance. I KNOW there are so many nice girls in Russia. There are quite a few professional ladder climbers, too. And the risk is that you won`t see through the cultural differences.

As for the sharks ?? No morality. Just ambition. Morality is something you can`t eat, and - wow, did I have a lucky escape ? ;-))))

earl
29-11-2003, 01:47
Originally posted by Wanderer
She had been in Belgium with hubby for 5 years and was getting a D.I.V.O.R.C.E.
Why ? I asked : she said there was one thing about him she didn't like, and there was one thing about her he didn't like.

The 5 year itch.

boom boom : theres one born every minute.

Are you sure they married for love? Not everyone does you know... they could have just participated in an informal sex for citizenship relationship for 5 years.

-earl-

DaveUKagain
29-11-2003, 01:49
Earl, we must be speaking "British" here, but you just got it in one, fella. ;-))))))))))

Trouble is.......

What the man in this informal "shagfest" seems to forget is that after five years, his lady wife will relieve him of half of everything he owns via a divorce court. Seems a bit of a high price, eh ? ;-))

As Wanderer says, "One born every minute"...... ;-)))))

Earl, some deluded men think that there IS some kind of way they can import the slinkiest, silkiest, sex - dripping Roosian Pooseycat, dip their wicks for five years, and then she gets citizenship, they get to have had a good time. Think I`ve mentioned this before.

What they quite forget is that to get such a paramour there in the Good Ol` US of A (or virtually anywhere else), they have to MARRY THEM.

So they get five years in the sack (and at any time after the ring goes on the finger, "Wifey" can say "nyet" and cross her legs..

Wifey gets

Citizenship
Free language lessons
Totally looked after
Half the house
Half the car
Maintenance
10 years social security payments guaranteed by Hubby as part of the visa process.

and in the US, if you get all cross with her she`ll have the Police on you for "brutality against poor Immigrant lady" before you can say "Shark".

The concept that someone can just get a "mail order bride, got to be good in the sack" is totally ludicrous and the suckers who go looking for girls like that usually find them - to their lasting detriment.;-)))))))

There are some great Russian ladies, there are some terrible ones - and the "fiancee visa" game means you can NEVER be sure of who you`re bringing over as you haven`t had the chance to live with `em and find out.

earl
29-11-2003, 05:32
Originally posted by DaveUKagain
Earl, we must be speaking "British" here, but you just got it in one, fella. ;-))))))))))

Trouble is.......

What the man in this informal "shagfest" seems to forget is that after five years, his lady wife will relieve him of half of everything he owns via a divorce court. Seems a bit of a high price, eh ? ;-))
Yes and no.... if the man is naive, sure; if not, then she won't. Read a book about asset protection. It's primarily used for tax purposes, but works equally well for this. For instance, neither of my parents own their home. A foreign corporation owns it. They lease their home from said corporation. A skilled lawyer could certainly untangle the web, but the corporations are incorporated in countries that aren't signatories to MLAT, so it would take a bunch of time and lots of money. Oh, and prenup? They still kind of work in America...


So they get five years in the sack (and at any time after the ring goes on the finger, "Wifey" can say "nyet" and cross her legs..
No fault divorce ;) In America (unlike Britain), folks can get divorced any time, for no reason other than one party wants to. The wishes of the second party don't matter one bit.



Wifey gets

Citizenship
Free language lessons
Totally looked after
Half the house
Half the car
Maintenance
10 years social security payments guaranteed by Hubby as part of the visa process.
Oh, it's expensive, but hey -- if that's what someone wants, I'm not going to criticize.



There are some great Russian ladies, there are some terrible ones - and the "fiancee visa" game means you can NEVER be sure of who you`re bringing over as you haven`t had the chance to live with `em and find out.
Which is why I would never marry someone I haven't lived with for at least a year, but that's just me. Hell, it kept me from marrying two women I might otherwise have ;)

Anyway, I'm not advocating importing foreigners for sex, but if you are careful, it can be done with minimal risk. The couple should just be upfront about what they want -- either party doing this without the knowledge of the other is pretty skanky.

-earl-

Sadie
29-11-2003, 09:31
Frankly speaking I think the topic has become a bit trite. Dave, ASA I remember you posted on it even b4 your reincarnation, buddy;) I could agree with a lot things by you except for periodically agressive thngs refering girls on the whole and your ex too. Well, the relationship itself and its result - are the products of cooperation of two parties ALWAYS.
If there are ppl looking for a partner in Net, via agencie whatever - we have to let them be, some do find happiness in the end of the road, some find compromise and consider it to be happiness, some find nothing - it's their business. One takes risks in a relationship regardless the nationalty and the background o his or her partner. Both should realize who they are and what partner would be adequate in his or her case. If they overestimate themselves - it's THEIR problem and they have to blame themselves. There is a kinda proverb in russia - free cheeze is only in a mousetrap;)

But for girls (mostly) who are interested in the topic - a link to an article by a psychologist about THE PSYCOLOGICAL TYPES OF MEN (http://www.owl.ru/win/womplus/2003/01_10.htm) , coming to Russia searching for a spouse - exceptionally useful article. It is in russian, i beg your pardon.

Dave, if you by chance decide to reply... You sound interesting and reasonable, but way too long posts of yours make it impossible to read the whole thing. I apologise if I sound rude, didn't mean it;) I was too long myself - i know.:)

DaveUKagain
29-11-2003, 14:07
Ahhhh, Sadie. ;-)))) Sorry for a long reply - some posts need it. ;-)))))

Firstly, I`ll apologise for the LONG posts - if you`re not a native speaker then they will appear to be "long", but if not, well, I think that you COULD say that the posts are informative enough. As for aggressive to certain types of girls and my ex partner in general - Sadie, you are perhaps missing the point that I`m not the guilty party here. ;-))))) No no, I`ve always said that there ARE good Russian women out there - a lot of them - and a few really bad ones. ;-))))) I don`t think that`s capable of being argued with.

"Agressive to a certain type of Russian woman who plays the system to get out of Russia". If you look at all rest of my posts elsewhere, I am not at all agressive to women in the slightest. ;-))) Quite the opposite. And the VAST majority of Russian women, are very, very nice people. It`s just that some girls will do ANYTHING to get out of Russia - "Marry a foreigner, any foreigner" and as you know, Sadie, most Russians themselves have nothing good to say about that type of girl, anyway.

The result of a relationship is not always the products of co-operation between two people if one person is deceiving the other from a great distance - Sadie, let`s suppose I invited you to England - we got engaged - and then 18 months later I said "Oh sorry, I`m actually married, you can`t come, bye bye" - there`d be grounds for being upset, wouldn`t there ? ;-)))) The reverse thing happened to me. And it`s one aspect of the system that this kind of deception IS possible. Remember, there are two different cultures involved, too, which tends to complicate the issue.

I fully agree that people should be left to find their own happiness or not - I also fully agree that they should be provided with enough information to have an understanding of what can go wrong. That sounds fair ?

Yes, I heard the one about free cheese and mousetraps and I`d describe that as a pretty trite oversimplification of the subject, Sadie. Sorry. ;-))))) And yes, one takes risks in any relationship and those risks are without regard to nationality - but the situation comes with it`s own risks which are - actually - pretty hard to decipher across the cultural gap. ;-)))))

Thanks for the link - Olga Makovskaya sounds interesting, but the article seems somewhat sensationalist. They usually are. ;-)))

Hehee - sorry, Sadie - a long reply. I apologise. I think if you read all my replies in full you`d have a balanced answer - no, I`m not being agressive to ALL Russian women - just a certain type and if you don`t think that type exists, wooo, sorry, they do. ;-))))) I could show you quite a few. I think you`ll find that 99% of Russian women - like all women, are good, honest ladies who don`t want to leave Russia. The other 1% who do ? (and it`s less than 1%) - well, some have very questionable motives, as do some of the men "importing" them.

I wouldn`t say "trite topic" but. I would say that it`s perhaps time for me to draw a line under it, Sadie. ;-)))) And - sorry, if you think I`ve been aggressive to ALL Russian women, I think you`ve read the post wrong. As for my ex ? Well, Sadie, everyone here who saw the situation feels the same way about her. But the posts aren`t personally about her, just about the "Russian fiancee" subject matter in general, which I know a lot about, having been an insider and a member of the UK <>RU community and knowing lots of couples in the same position.

Sun_rise
29-11-2003, 23:32
Originally posted by DaveUKagain


[QUOTE][i] I think that you COULD say that the posts are informative enough.

Yes quite informative indeed, enough enformative for you to start up an essay on this subject :p

Sorry to hear you had to go through all that through....on the other hand however looks like you're quite happy having to have experienced all that you've talked about above....go and figure

:)


Ahh men, can't live with them, can't live without

Cheers

DaveUKagain
30-11-2003, 00:01
Originally posted by Sun_rise

Ahh men, can't live with them, can't live without

Cheers [/B]

Ahh, Sun_rise, we`re lovely when we`re asleep. ;-)))))

Dave -x- ;-) -x-

grandman
30-11-2003, 00:09
Dave,

What are you and I; doing on this board, on a Saturday evening in the UK? Guess it must say something about both of us, but WHAT?


:confused:

Sun_rise
30-11-2003, 00:21
Originally posted by DaveUKagain
Ahh, Sun_rise, we`re lovely when we`re asleep. ;-)))))




Oh yes indeed, sad but true ;)

Going back to the subject though..

you know what the saddest thing about it all is, its that the priority in our lives is being given to the issues of no real value. The next thing to happen is we create a fantasy about people and places and the way we want them to be but when it all melts away, like a snowflake on a candle, and it does most of the times, only then do we realize the difference .like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore, so do our lives content to their end

Sun_rise
30-11-2003, 00:22
Grandman,
good point

DaveUKagain
30-11-2003, 00:35
Actually, I`m sitting at home designing flowcharts for the neighbours` business. (Money`s involved. ;-))) ) Given that I`ve got a deadline to hit of about next Wednesday and a knee high pile of work, you think I`d have my head down BUT flow charts are very very very boring, after all. ;-)))))))))

Bang goes the deadline...... ;-)))))))))))

DaveUKagain
30-11-2003, 00:38
Originally posted by Sun_rise
Oh yes indeed, sad but true ;)

Going back to the subject though..

you know what the saddest thing about it all is, its that the priority in our lives is being given to the issues of no real value. The next thing to happen is we create a fantasy about people and places and the way we want them to be but when it all melts away, like a snowflake on a candle, and it does most of the times, only then do we realize the difference .like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore, so do our lives content to their end

I reckon two people start out sharing the same fantasy - most of the time. Whether they still agree on that fantasy a week, a month, a year later..... is what keeps relationships "interesting". ;-)))

Can you stay in love with someone for the rest of your life ? Mmmm, I dunno - I think love starts you off and friendship gets you through it. ;-))))) But. Wooo, you`ve GOT to act with morality and responsibility to your partner, as, at the end of the day, you`re really acting morally and responsibly to yourself as well - otherwise - your conscience WILL come back and wake you up.....

grandman
30-11-2003, 00:44
Thats one thing I could get right, but I feel the need for some Gin & T; in fact a lot of it!


:agree:

Sun_rise
30-11-2003, 00:58
Originally posted by DaveUKagain

Can you stay in love with someone for the rest of your life ? Mmmm, I dunno - I think love starts you off and friendship gets you through it. ;-))))) But. Wooo, you`ve GOT to act with morality and responsibility to your partner, as, at the end of the day, you`re really acting morally and responsibly to yourself as well - otherwise - your conscience WILL come back and wake you up.....

Dave, indeed love comes and goes and whats left is respect not friendship as respect is about either.it is all about respect in a first place the rest comes along..respecting oneself naturally leads to a respect to the one whos near .of course this concerns an any type of relationship.certainly there are other factors that have influence on a relationship as such, like that of the intelligence level for instance
look inside yourself to know whats going on in the soul of the one who's near, yet look deep

into the heart of another to learn yourself...

grandman
30-11-2003, 01:17
Young Lady, who are you, or more precisely what are you? Your profile tells us nothing, yet I see much wisdom emanating from you. Who are you?


:confused:

Sun_rise
30-11-2003, 01:21
Grandman,

Just another human being from planet Earth of Milky Way Galaxy here :) does it really matter who I am or what I am? I do not think so...
However I shall take your little note as a compliment if I may,
Best regards,
Me

grandman
30-11-2003, 01:26
It was intended that way; you show much understanding, and that always bothers me, especially when I dont know who.

No offence intended promise, if any taken I apologise


:shame:

Sun_rise
30-11-2003, 01:37
grandman,
Your curiosity is natural considering the fact that new someone has appeared all of sudden from the middle of nowhere the internet in this case J
Correct me if Im wrong, what actually bothers you is that someone has shown much understanding on a subject.? Now thats something new ;)

No offence intended here either if any taken I apologize

Now were even ;)

Sun_rise
30-11-2003, 01:52
the mood that passes through you is like a child it plays with you soul, like a rainy sky it

cryes out the tears for the past, like the mountains stream it rushes dreams through your

veins....
Best regards,
Me

grandman
30-11-2003, 03:53
Youre gifted, but what does youre gift hide?

The face that smiles; then melts away,
The face that brings; another day,
The day; of good, or evil near,
Fear not says she
Less; lost you to fear,
Less all you be; be lost to me.

I never offer offence to any lady. And seek only that; that is the truth.

Gambler
30-11-2003, 10:18
What are the odds before Dave uk whatsisname gets involved again and starts telling SUNRISE all about his ex?

Stella
30-11-2003, 12:32
Puh-leez, buy yourself a Basic English Grammar!

DaveUKagain
30-11-2003, 12:56
Originally posted by Gambler
What are the odds before Dave uk whatsisname gets involved again and starts telling SUNRISE all about his ex?

Slightly higher than you becoming literate. Come back when you evolve from a smartass to a jerk. Should only take a couple of million years.

In the interim, if you have nothing constructive to say, say nothing. And mind your manners, Mister Two Posts.

DaveUKagain
30-11-2003, 13:24
Oh, I know who it is, Sadie. ;-))))

Let me put things in perspective. No matter what you may think, this is one of the longest running threads on the board and has 2500 plus views. Anyone may disagree with the subject or my treatment of it, but I obviously know a lot, I`m quite happy to put the work in to doing it, I`ll reply to any question or PM with a polite reply.....

....... where appropriate, and with about 1350 posts under two identities, I *will* put into this board more than I get out of it.

Then along comes Mr "two posts under an anonymous identity" with a highly personal attack. ;-)))) Can I say I`m surprised ? No. Can I say I`m bothered ? No. ;-)))) You can, however, now be quite sure that this thread is finished, as once one idiot hijacks it, the rest will follow. No, he`s not Egyptian, he`s a Brit, he knows of Lester Piggot..... beyond that, no interest. Nor any more in this thread.

So, well done Gambler, AKA...... ?????

DaveUKagain
30-11-2003, 13:30
Originally posted by Gambler
What are the odds before Dave uk whatsisname gets involved again and starts telling SUNRISE all about his ex?

Quick message to Gambler here.

So, do you actually think that insulting someone - in public - about a breakup of a relationship is *amusing* ?

........

grandman
30-11-2003, 17:12
You worry to much about nothing Dave, because thats what he is NOTHING. Then again there are some similarities here, check both profiles; curious YES?


:confused:

Sun_rise
30-11-2003, 17:58
....yes well thats what I meat by respect...or the lack of it




____________________________________
touch the silence of the mountains....feel the sandy stone beneith your feet ....stand on the edge of the mountain clif hoping that echo will guess your thoughts.....look into the eyes of eternity....