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generalhavok
29-10-2010, 07:37
Hello everyone, I'm new here. I have been searching the internet trying to find some answers to some questions. Sorry, it's a little long, but I figured someone would wind up asking for more details anyways!

Background story:
I'm an American man, 25 years old, very soon, I plan to move to Russia, and marry my fiance. I first met her at school in America, when she was here as an exchange student, and we have been in touch constantly since she went back (7 years!). I have been to Russia before to visit her, on my last trip there in September this year, I proposed to her. I absolutely love it there, and she has no interest in coming to America to live - she's happy, has a good job, and worries about the economy and other problems of America (have we really gotten that bad here?) Like I said, I love the country, and she is the love of my life - trust me on that.
Point is, I'm now graduated from University, have been working a couple years saving up my money, and we've decided that I should go live in Russia with her. So I'm studying Russian, trying to figure out the process, looking at what sorts of jobs I could get in Russia, etc.

So, what I want to do, is to go there early next year, marry her, obtain temporary residence, and eventually become a citizen. So, from what I understand, I need to travel to Moscow, obtain the necessary paper from the American embassy saying that I'm free to marry, get my documents translated, head to the foreign ministry and get everything approved. Then we need to go to ZAGS and schedule a wedding. Am I correct so far?
Now, once we have our wedding (they say it takes 32 days to get one), how long does it take to get Temporary Residence? This is one thing I'm concerned about, it seems that it could take a while for this to be done. And, also from what I understand about visas, is that you can only be in Russia for 90 days in a 180 day period! So, does this mean I have to return to America and wait? I want to avoid this, it's expensive to fly back and forth to America, and when I get back to America, I won't have a job or anything to go to anymore, so it just seems like a big waste of money. Or, am I completely wrong about this?
Also, I heard that once you have a temporary residence, it becomes more difficult to leave and come back. Not a big concern to me, I don't plan on going anywhere, but I was curious. And finally, I am told that after 3 years, I can become a citizen.

Is there anyone here who knows more about this process, or has perhaps done it themselves? Any advice? I appreciate anyone who can help this crazy American and hopeful future Russian! :)

kharaku
29-10-2010, 09:03
Hello everyone, I'm new here. I have been searching the internet trying to find some answers to some questions. Sorry, it's a little long, but I figured someone would wind up asking for more details anyways!

Background story:
I'm an American man, 25 years old, very soon, I plan to move to Russia, and marry my fiance. I first met her at school in America, when she was here as an exchange student, and we have been in touch constantly since she went back (7 years!). I have been to Russia before to visit her, on my last trip there in September this year, I proposed to her. I absolutely love it there, and she has no interest in coming to America to live - she's happy, has a good job, and worries about the economy and other problems of America (have we really gotten that bad here?) Like I said, I love the country, and she is the love of my life - trust me on that.
Point is, I'm now graduated from University, have been working a couple years saving up my money, and we've decided that I should go live in Russia with her. So I'm studying Russian, trying to figure out the process, looking at what sorts of jobs I could get in Russia, etc.

So, what I want to do, is to go there early next year, marry her, obtain temporary residence, and eventually become a citizen. So, from what I understand, I need to travel to Moscow, obtain the necessary paper from the American embassy saying that I'm free to marry, get my documents translated, head to the foreign ministry and get everything approved. Then we need to go to ZAGS and schedule a wedding. Am I correct so far?
Now, once we have our wedding (they say it takes 32 days to get one), how long does it take to get Temporary Residence? This is one thing I'm concerned about, it seems that it could take a while for this to be done. And, also from what I understand about visas, is that you can only be in Russia for 90 days in a 180 day period! So, does this mean I have to return to America and wait? I want to avoid this, it's expensive to fly back and forth to America, and when I get back to America, I won't have a job or anything to go to anymore, so it just seems like a big waste of money. Or, am I completely wrong about this?
Also, I heard that once you have a temporary residence, it becomes more difficult to leave and come back. Not a big concern to me, I don't plan on going anywhere, but I was curious. And finally, I am told that after 3 years, I can become a citizen.

Is there anyone here who knows more about this process, or has perhaps done it themselves? Any advice? I appreciate anyone who can help this crazy American and hopeful future Russian! :)

Easiest i could guess is 'buy' a work permit for around 3 grand a year, and 3 years after your marriage apply for permanent residence on the basis of marriage.

That or if you make I think around 60 grand a year at the moment and work in a highly skilled profession you could try to get temporary residence on the basis of that.

As far as the difficulty 'coming back' you have to get exit visas while under TRP I BELIEVE and not leave for more than 6 months. On the other hand you can go for citizenship very quickly after TRP is issued if you're married to a Russian.

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 10:17
And finally, I am told that after 3 years, I can become a citizen.



The biggest problem with this is - you will have to give up your American citizenship (and passport), and get a Russian passport which means you will have to apply for visas to visit many, many other countries !

I don't know exactly, but since you are only 25, does anyone know if he would have to serve in the Russian army? (as a Russian citizen, of course)

kharaku
29-10-2010, 10:36
The biggest problem with this is - you will have to give up your American citizenship (and passport), and get a Russian passport which means you will have to apply for visas to visit many, many other countries !

Okay frankly this is BS.

They don't confiscate passports anymore; there is no requirement to renounce foreign citizenship; and even if they did gank it you could walk down to the US embassy and have it re-issued.

The United States Does NOT accept foreign renunciation of citizenship ANYWAY.

Basically to give up American citizenship you have to walk into a US embassy spit on the official and officially swear that you renounce it, and get out before the guards nab you and allege you're a terrorist.

FatAndy
29-10-2010, 11:12
Russian Federation has nothing againist double citizenship. If generalhavok will "pull up rubber" for a couple of years he will reach 27 years age and get out of proscription lists.
There is a project to increase this age to 30 but I'm not sure that it will be accepted.

If he has higher education and military specialization, there is theoretical possibility to wear military boots as leutenant-sr.leutenant-captain for 1-2-3 years but I'm in doubts about it because of potential former/dual citizenship of country who drives aggressive imperialistic NATO block :D


The biggest problem with this is - you will have to give up your American citizenship (and passport), and get a Russian passport which means you will have to apply for visas to visit many, many other countries !

I don't know exactly, but since you are only 25, does anyone know if he would have to serve in the Russian army? (as a Russian citizen, of course)

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 11:20
Okay frankly this is BS.


The United States Does NOT accept foreign renunciation of citizenship ANYWAY.

.

whatchu talkin bout willis?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/us/26expat.html

More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship

Amid mounting frustration over taxation and banking problems, small but growing numbers of overseas Americans are taking the weighty step of renouncing their citizenship.

“What we have seen is a substantial change in mentality among the overseas community in the past two years,” said Jackie Bugnion, director of American Citizens Abroad, an advocacy group based in Geneva. “Before, no one would dare mention to other Americans that they were even thinking of renouncing their U.S. nationality. Now, it is an openly discussed issue.”

The Federal Register, the government publication that records such decisions, shows that 502 expatriates gave up their U.S. citizenship or permanent residency status in the last quarter of 2009. That is a tiny portion of the 5.2 million Americans estimated by the State Department to be living abroad.

Still, 502 was the largest quarterly figure in years, more than twice the total for all of 2008, and it looms larger, given how agonizing the decision can be. There were 235 renunciations in 2008 and 743 last year. Waiting periods to meet with consular officers to formalize renunciations have grown.

Anecdotally, frustrations over tax and banking questions, not political considerations, appear to be the main drivers of the surge. Expat advocates say that as it becomes more difficult for Americans to live and work abroad, it will become harder for American companies to compete.

American expats have long complained that the United States is the only industrialized country to tax citizens on income earned abroad, even when they are taxed in their country of residence, though they are allowed to exclude their first $91,400 in foreign-earned income.

One Swiss-based business executive, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of sensitive family issues, said she weighed the decision for 10 years. She had lived abroad for years but had pleasant memories of service in the U.S. Marine Corps.

Yet the notion of double taxation — and of future tax obligations for her children, who will receive few U.S. services — finally pushed her to renounce, she said.

“I loved my time in the Marines, and the U.S. is still a great country,” she said. “But having lived here 20 years and having to pay and file while seeing other countries’ nationals not having to do that, I just think it’s grossly unfair.”

“It’s taxation without representation,” she added.

Stringent new banking regulations — aimed both at curbing tax evasion and, under the Patriot Act, preventing money from flowing to terrorist groups — have inadvertently made it harder for some expats to keep bank accounts in the United States and in some cases abroad.

Some U.S.-based banks have closed expats’ accounts because of difficulty in certifying that the holders still maintain U.S. addresses, as required by a Patriot Act provision.

“It seems the new anti-terrorist rules are having unintended effects,” Daniel Flynn, who lives in Belgium, wrote in a letter quoted by the Americans Abroad Caucus in the U.S. Congress in correspondence with the Treasury Department.

“I was born in San Francisco in 1939, served my country as an army officer from 1961 to 1963, have been paying U.S. income taxes for 57 years, since 1952, have continually maintained federal voting residence, and hold a valid American passport.”

Mr. Flynn had held an account with a U.S. bank for 44 years. Still, he wrote, “they said that the new anti-terrorism rules required them to close our account because of our address outside the U.S.”

Kathleen Rittenhouse, who lives in Canada, wrote that until she encountered a similar problem, “I did not know that the Patriot Act placed me in the same category as terrorists, arms dealers and money launderers.”

Andy Sundberg, another director of American Citizens Abroad, said, “These banks are closing our accounts as acts of prudent self-defense.” But the result, he said, is that expats have become “toxic citizens.”

The Americans Abroad Caucus, headed by Representative Carolyn B. Maloney, Democrat of New York, and Representative Joe Wilson, Republican of South Carolina, has made repeated entreaties to the Treasury Department.

In response, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner wrote Ms. Maloney on Feb. 24 that “nothing in U.S. financial law and regulation should make it impossible for Americans living abroad to access financial services here in the United States.”

But banks, Treasury officials note, are free to ignore that advice.

“That Americans living overseas are being denied banking services in U.S. banks, and increasingly in foreign banks, is unacceptable,” Ms. Maloney said in a letter Friday to leaders of the House Financial Services Committee, requesting a hearing on the question.

Mr. Wilson, joining her request, said that pleas from expats for relief “continue to come in at a startling rate.”

Relinquishing citizenship is relatively simple. The person must appear before a U.S. consular or diplomatic official in a foreign country and sign a renunciation oath. This does not allow a person to escape old tax bills or military obligations.

Now, expats’ representatives fear renunciations will become more common.

“It is a sad outcome,” Ms. Bugnion said, “but I personally feel that we are now seeing only the tip of the iceberg.”

FatAndy
29-10-2010, 11:25
They sell Motherland for money, super! :D "KAPITALIZOM!"(C)

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 11:35
Okay frankly this is BS.

They don't confiscate passports anymore; there is no requirement to renounce foreign citizenship; and even if they did gank it you could walk down to the US embassy and have it re-issued.



Don't know how old this is, but !

It should be noted that there are a number of conditions that a person desiring to acquire citizenship of the Russian Federation must observe: the obligation to observe the constitution of the Russian Federation, have a lawful source of means of subsistence, know the Russian language at a level established by the provision on the procedure for consideration of questions of citizenship of the Russian Federation, as well as the mandatory condition of rejecting the existing citizenship, except for cases envisaged by an international treaty or when rejection is not possible.

http://www.ndla.net/publications/articles/pdf/AcquiringRussiancitizenship.pdf

why don't u just call up these lawyers and ask them? :)

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 11:53
Although wiki says-

Russian nationality law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg" class="image"><img alt="Coat of Arms of the Russian Federation.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg/150px-Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/f/f2/Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg/150px-Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg.png

Naturalization is usually granted if the following requirements are met:

the person has been a permanent resident of Russia for not less than 5 years

promises lawful behaviour

has a legal source of income

applied for termination of another citizenship (though the actual loss of foreign citizenship is not required)

speaks Russian

FatAndy
29-10-2010, 11:54
mandatory condition of rejecting the existing citizenship, except for cases envisaged by an international treaty or when rejection is not possible.

http://www.consultant.ru/popular/civic/34_1.html#p68 - article 6, Double citizenship

http://www.consultant.ru/popular/civic/34_2.html - article 13, part 1г
Отказ от иного гражданства не требуется, если это предусмотрено международным договором Российской Федерации или настоящим Федеральным законом либо если отказ от иного гражданства невозможен в силу не зависящих от лица причин;

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 11:57
mandatory condition of rejecting the existing citizenship, except for cases envisaged by an international treaty or when rejection is not possible.

http://www.consultant.ru/popular/civic/34_1.html#p68 - article 6, Double citizenship

http://www.consultant.ru/popular/civic/34_2.html - article 13, part 1г
Отказ от иного гражданства не требуется, если это предусмотрено международным договором Российской Федерации или настоящим Федеральным законом либо если отказ от иного гражданства невозможен в силу не зависящих от лица причин;

and does russia have this treaty with the united states?

do you know anyone who has gone thru this process?

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 12:03
mandatory condition of rejecting the existing citizenship, except for cases envisaged by an international treaty or when rejection is not possible.

http://www.consultant.ru/popular/civic/34_1.html#p68 - article 6, Double citizenship

http://www.consultant.ru/popular/civic/34_2.html - article 13, part 1г
Отказ от иного гражданства не требуется, если это предусмотрено международным договором Российской Федерации или настоящим Федеральным законом либо если отказ от иного гражданства невозможен в силу не зависящих от лица причин;

My Russian is terrible. Any help with this first part?

г) обратились в полномочный орган иностранного государства с заявлениями об отказе от имеющегося у них иного гражданства. Отказ от иного гражданства не требуется, если это предусмотрено международным договором Российской Федерации или настоящим Федеральным законом либо если отказ от иного гражданства невозможен в силу не зависящих от лица причин;

Best I can come up with via google translator is - applied to the authority of a foreign country with a disclaimer from their existing nationality other.

which pretty much almost looks to me like what the laywers were saying when they said - as well as the mandatory condition of rejecting the existing citizenship, except for cases envisaged by an international treaty or when rejection is not possible.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 12:12
Don't know how old this is, but !

why don't u just call up these lawyers and ask them? :)

It's old and WRONG

but don't take MY word for it:

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

"B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
sign an oath of renunciation
Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below."

Can you please stop spreading misinformation about the forum btw?

kharaku
29-10-2010, 12:15
Although wiki says-

Russian nationality law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_nationality_law)

Naturalization is usually granted if the following requirements are met:

the person has been a permanent resident of Russia for not less than 5 years

promises lawful behaviour

has a legal source of income

applied for termination of another citizenship (though the actual loss of foreign citizenship is not required)

speaks Russian
frankly if I were planning the full route citizenship (which I am) i'd be a heck of a lot more worried about number 3.

Further USA can keep her citizenship and massive pile of bad debt.

oh wow now i'm not a citizen according to noobovich.

FatAndy
29-10-2010, 12:15
There is no indication that it is mandatory, as I see.
Moreover, article 62 of Constitution says that citizen of Russian Federation can have also citizenship of other state according to federal law or international treaty of Russian Federation.
But it is the question for a lawyer - do we have such treaties/agreements/laws with USA.

Iomgui
29-10-2010, 12:16
try something else to make it work

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 12:17
It's old and WRONG

but don't take MY word for it:

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

"B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
sign an oath of renunciation
Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below."

Can you please stop spreading misinformation about the forum btw?

Did you read this text? There are 3 conditions (or maybe we should say 5, since one must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship) that must one must meet.

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer
2. sign an oath of renunciation

and

3. Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States.

That is it !

About spreading "misinformation about the forum" I am not sure what you mean. I don't recall telling anyone anything bad about EXPAT.RU.

If you mean, spreading misinformation on the forum, well, I don't know what to tell you. I posted a New York Times article. If they have miscorrect information, then you should take it up with them.

Not me.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 12:19
There is no indication that it is mandatory, as I see.
Moreover, article 62 of Constitution says that citizen of Russian Federation can have also citizenship of other state according to federal law or international treaty of Russian Federation.
But it is the question for a lawyer - do we have such treaties/agreements/laws with USA.

Also of interest:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html


The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

...

kharaku
29-10-2010, 12:22
About spreading "misinformation about the forum" I am not sure what you mean. I don't recall telling anyone anything bad about EXPAT.RU.

If you mean, spreading misinformation on the forum, well, I don't know what to tell you. I posted a New York Times article. If they have miscorrect information, then you should take it up with them.

Apparently your mastery of international law is about (possibly better?) than your vocabulary:

Definition of ABOUT

1
a : reasonably close to <about a year ago>
b : almost <about starved>
c : on the verge of —usually used with be and a following infinitive <is about to join the army> —used with a negative to express intention or determination <not about to quit>
2
: on all sides : around
3
a : in rotation
b : around the outside
4
: here and there
5
: in the vicinity : near
6
: in the opposite direction <face about> <the other way about>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/about

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 12:23
There is no indication that it is mandatory, as I see.
Moreover, article 62 of Constitution says that citizen of Russian Federation can have also citizenship of other state according to federal law or international treaty of Russian Federation..

I think we are talking at cross purposes here.

Russian citizens may have dual citizenship. But, the issue isn't about Russian citizens, it is about people applying to become Russian citizens !

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 12:24
and apparently you are a British person, since Americans wouldn't use about in this sense !


Apparently your mastery of international law is about (possibly better?) than your vocabulary:

Definition of ABOUT

1
a : reasonably close to <about a year ago>
b : almost <about starved>
c : on the verge of —usually used with be and a following infinitive <is about to join the army> —used with a negative to express intention or determination <not about to quit>
2
: on all sides : around
3
a : in rotation
b : around the outside
4
: here and there
5
: in the vicinity : near
6
: in the opposite direction <face about> <the other way about>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/about

kharaku
29-10-2010, 12:26
and apparently you are a British person, since Americans wouldn't use about in this sense !

Well NY is only a stone's throw from New ENGLAND but anyone with a brain wouldn't be surprised by the usage of about in that context.

Noting that Miriam Webster is largely a US English dictionary.

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 12:27
Apparently your mastery of international law is about (possibly better?) than your vocabulary:



This doesn't make sense. Let's just remove your parentheses, and re-read that sentence.

Apparently your mastery of international law is about than your vocabulary.

????????

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 12:28
Well NY is only a stone's throw from New ENGLAND but anyone with a brain wouldn't be surprised by the usage of about in that context.

Noting that Miriam Webster is largely a US English dictionary.

Again, if you have a problem with the information provided, please take it up the NYT. I have simply reposted their article in full.

FatAndy
29-10-2010, 12:28
I know this, thanks,

Thare is another juridical "hook" in our law - while the moment of applying to RF citizeship you don't need to have your claim about give-up of US citizenship satisfied ;)
You just need the claim applied to US consulate. But US consulate may not satisfy it. :)

Anyway, I'm not a lawyer specialized in this area, it's question to them.


Also of interest:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html


The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

...

kharaku
29-10-2010, 12:30
Again, if you have a problem with the information provided, please take it up the NYT. I have simply reposted their article in full.

The NYT is a rag full of misinformation anyway if I started noting all the garbage they'd print I'd have to quit working for a living.

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 12:30
So thank you for your support and confirmation of the facts that I previously presented.



Thare is another juridical "hook" in our law - while the moment of applying to RF citizeship you don't need to have your claim about give-up of US citizenship satisfied ;)
You just need the claim applied to US consulate. But US consulate may not satisfy it. :)

FatAndy
29-10-2010, 12:34
Not at all.
But avoid of relying to newspaper publications if it isn't official govt/state newspaper.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 12:35
So thank you for your support and confirmation of the facts that I previously presented.

Do you know what it takes to prove intent in a court of law?

HINT: The famous 'al Qaeda' terrorist Adam Gadhan is STILL an American citizenship and he's done a hell of a lot more than pick up a foreign passport and say he hates America.

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 12:38
But avoid of relying to newspaper publications if it isn't official govt/state newspaper.

I didn't know America had government/state newspapers ! At least not officially anyways ;b

kharaku
29-10-2010, 12:43
I didn't know America had government/state newspapers ! At least not officially anyways ;b

Failing those, I think THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE might be a better reference than a publication with a regular corrections page...

FatAndy
29-10-2010, 12:58
Wild country, indeed... ;)


I didn't know America had government/state newspapers ! At least not officially anyways ;b

FatAndy
29-10-2010, 12:59
Yes, otherwise it's only songs...
And a lawyer, I mean Russian one...


Failing those, I think THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE might be a better reference than a publication with a regular corrections page...

yakspeare
29-10-2010, 12:59
dual citizenship is only by treaty countries and from memory there was only two....one was turkmensitan and the other was either tajikistan or kazakhstan(i can't be bothered checking but know it isn't uzbekistan)...there are no other dual nationalities accepted...if you have a russian passport you must always use this to enter and leave russia(of course many don't)...but i read up on it all not so long ago and i am sure someone if they are really bothered can check that.

one step forgotten in this whole process is permanent residency which occurs for after TRP and you must have for one year before applying for citizenship which most people don't apply for anyway.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 13:09
dual citizenship is only by treaty countries and from memory there was only two....one was turkmensitan and the other was either tajikistan or kazakhstan(i can't be bothered checking but know it isn't uzbekistan)...there are no other dual nationalities accepted...if you have a russian passport you must always use this to enter and leave russia(of course many don't)...but i read up on it all not so long ago and i am sure someone if they are really bothered can check that.

one step forgotten in this whole process is permanent residency which occurs for after TRP and you must have for one year before applying for citizenship which most people don't apply for anyway.

dude seriously.

the US acknowledges dueal citzenship (speaking as the father of a child who quite legally has both a Russian and an American passport)

btw US Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel may in fact have dual citizenship (he certainly qualifies for both given his father's nationality, and his birth right citizenship in the united states)

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 13:16
dude seriously.

the US acknowledges dueal citzenship (speaking as the father of a child who quite legally has both a Russian and an American passport)

btw US Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel may in fact have dual citizenship (he certainly qualifies for both given his father's nationality, and his birth right citizenship in the united states)

That's right. You are that angry guy who somehow has a "work" permit while still sitting in the US.

When are you finally going to make the jump and come on over to Moscow?

BTW, Yak was more than likely talking about Russia, since we are here, and not in the US.

Russian nationality law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg" class="image"><img alt="Coat of Arms of the Russian Federation.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg/150px-Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/f/f2/Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg/150px-Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Russian_Federation.svg.png

Wiki says -

Dual citizenship treaties

The following international treaties contain rules related to dual citizenship:

Treaty between Russian Federation and Republic of Tajikistan (1995)
Treaty between Russian Federation and Republic of Turkmenistan (1993), current status of which is disputable

Treaty on friendship, cooperation and mutual security between Russian Federation and Republic of Armenia[8](signed December 29, 1991) grants a right to acquire citizenship of both Russia and Armenia to the citizens of Russia and citizens of Armenia.

As Russian Federation is a successor of Soviet Union some soviet treaties on dual citizenship are still in force. For this reason Convention on the Nationality of Married Women is in force.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 13:18
That's right. You are that angry guy who somehow has a "work" permit while still sitting in the US.

When are you finally going to make the jump and come on over to Moscow?

BTW, Yak was more than likely talking about Russia, since we are here, and not in the US.

Russian nationality law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_nationality_law)

Wiki says -

Dual citizenship treaties

The following international treaties contain rules related to dual citizenship:

Treaty between Russian Federation and Republic of Tajikistan (1995)
Treaty between Russian Federation and Republic of Turkmenistan (1993), current status of which is disputable

Treaty on friendship, cooperation and mutual security between Russian Federation and Republic of Armenia[8](signed December 29, 1991) grants a right to acquire citizenship of both Russia and Armenia to the citizens of Russia and citizens of Armenia.

As Russian Federation is a successor of Soviet Union some soviet treaties on dual citizenship are still in force. For this reason Convention on the Nationality of Married Women is in force.

Did you seriously just quote wikipedia?

SV1973a
29-10-2010, 13:22
dude seriously.

the US acknowledges dueal citzenship (speaking as the father of a child who quite legally has both a Russian and an American passport)

btw US Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel may in fact have dual citizenship (he certainly qualifies for both given his father's nationality, and his birth right citizenship in the united states)

Dual citizenship treaties mean that both countries consider the person to be a citizen of the respective countries. Russia has such treaties with only 2 countries, (2 former central asian USSR republics). Citizens of those countries can have double passports and both Russia and country A, acknowledge that the persons have Russian citizenship AND country A citizenship.
The US does NOT acknowledge dual citizenship. For the US, your children are considered to be US citizens ONLY.
Doesn`t stop them from having Russian citizenship as well, but the US will not consider them to be Russian citizens.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 13:24
That's right. You are that angry guy who somehow has a "work" permit while still sitting in the US.

When are you finally going to make the jump and come on over to Moscow?
a little over a month there smart guy in case you didn't know work visa don't show up as an email download.

if you call calling you out on the stuff you make up anger though call me guilty.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 13:25
Dual citizenship treaties mean that both countries consider the person to be a citizen of the respective countries. Russia has such treaties with only 2 countries, (2 former central asian USSR republics). Citizens of those countries can have double passports and both Russia and country A, acknowledge that the persons have Russian citizenship AND country A citizenship.
The US does NOT acknowledge dual citizenship. For the US, your children are considered to be US citizens ONLY.
Doesn`t stop them from having Russian citizenship as well, but the US will not consider them to be Russian citizens.

"The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. "

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

SV1973a
29-10-2010, 13:30
"The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. "

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

Yes, of course, but the point is :
Countries that have signed dual citizenship treaties, officially acknowledge that their citizens can have both passports, and can be treated as a citizen of the other state, even on their own territory.
This is not the case in the US!!!
The Russian citizenship of your children has no meaning to the US, and likewise, the US citizenship has no meaning to Russia.
What are the consequences? The US consular section can not intervene in case a Russian citizen (that also has US citizenship) gets in trouble in Russia.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 13:34
Yes, of course, but the point is :
Countries that have signed dual citizenship treaties, officially acknowledge that their citizens can have both passports, and can be treated as a citizen of the other state, even on their own territory.
This is not the case in the US!!!
The Russian citizenship of your children has no meaning to the US, and likewise, the US citizenship has no meaning to Russia.
What are the consequences? The US consular section can not intervene in case a Russian citizen (that also has US citizenship) gets in trouble in Russia.

Unless he makes it TO the consulate and vice versa. (Embassies don't have to return individual's who's foreign citizenship they do not recognize. Noting also Russia doesn't extradite anyone with Russian citizenship... )

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 13:34
"The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. "

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

But, the idea behind the post made by SV1973a is this:

As an American citizen, you may only enter and leave America on an American passport.

You may have the citizenship (and passport) of another country, however, America doesn't recognize that citizenship.

The same thing with Russia.

If I have an American passport (citizenship), and a Russian passport (citizenship), I may not enter Russia on my American passport, as I am * NOT * an American, I am a Russian and may only enter Russia on my Russian passport.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 13:36
But, the idea behind the post made by SV1973a is this:

As an American citizen, you may only enter and leave America on an American passport.

Do you honestly believe that happens?

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 13:39
Do you honestly believe that happens?

Doesn't matter what I believe. Laws are the laws !

SV1973a
29-10-2010, 13:42
But, the idea behind the post made by SV1973a is this:

As an American citizen, you may only enter and leave America on an American passport.

You may have the citizenship (and passport) of another country, however, America doesn't recognize that citizenship.

The same thing with Russia.

If I have an American passport (citizenship), and a Russian passport (citizenship), I may not enter Russia on my American passport, as I am * NOT * an American, I am a Russian and may only enter Russia on my Russian passport.

Yes, that is correct.

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 13:44
a little over a month there smart guy in case you didn't know work visa don't show up as an email download.

if you call calling you out on the stuff you make up anger though call me guilty.

Use "here" for something which is near to us.

Example: Here is the pencil in my hand.

Use "there" for something which is far from us.

Example: There is the pen next to the lamp.

I don't know if you are, or aren't, but your language suggests otherwise !

SV1973a
29-10-2010, 13:45
Do you honestly believe that happens?

I suppose it does. I would enter Russia on a Russian passport (if I had one), not on my foreign passport with a visa. Besides, you are violating migration laws if you enter Russia on a foreign passport (if you hold citizenship).
The violation already started on your visa application form, where you are required to give your citizenship...
If you are a Russian citizen, you can not get a visa for Russia in a foreign passport.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 13:49
Doesn't matter what I believe. Laws are the laws !

With your level of naiveté I'm starting to question if you've ever been out of the country.

Do you think the Mexicans who DO bother to hold American citizenship are making sure to show their American passport on the way into Mexico to visit relatives?

Do you think all those who visit Israel for a year to fight in the IDF (which many feel a religious obligation) or the Middle Easterners who work at convenience stores but routinely run home with gifts are traveling there on their US Passports?

There is no system in place to monitor this in most countries, and the US has better things to do with the system they have.

Countries often monitor NON citizens who don't enter and leave on the same (through migration cards and such); not entering citizens coming 'home'.

Bottom line as I stated in my initial response: short of really pissing someone off they couldn't care less. And even then disproving citizenship is challenging (Especially in the US where citizenship is guaranteed by the 14th amendment) .

Scaring the opening poster with silly notions like he'll lose his citizenship is nothing more than the same paranoid antics you respond to every poster with.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 13:50
I suppose it does. I would enter Russia on a Russian passport (if I had one), not on my foreign passport with a visa.

And would you get a visa in your Russian passport and use that to enter the United States?

kharaku
29-10-2010, 13:52
Yes, that is correct.

The law snoobovich posted states ENTER AND LEAVE.

NO ONE DOES THAT.

They enter on the one that doesn't require a visa and exit on the other.

SV1973a
29-10-2010, 13:52
With your level of naiveté I'm starting to question if you've ever been out of the country.

Do you think the Mexicans who DO bother to hold American citizenship are making sure to show their American passport on the way into Mexico to visit relatives?

Do you think all those who visit Israel for a year to fight in the IDF (which many feel a religious obligation) or the Middle Easterners who work at convenience stores but routinely run home with gifts are traveling there on their US Passports?

There is no system in place to monitor this in most countries, and the US has better things to do with the system they have.

Countries often monitor NON citizens who don't enter and leave on the same (through migration cards and such); not entering citizens coming 'home'.

Bottom line as I stated in my initial response: short of really pissing someone off they couldn't care less. And even then disproving citizenship is challenging (Especially in the US where citizenship is guaranteed by the 14th amendment) .

Scaring the opening poster with silly notions like he'll lose his citizenship is nothing more than the same paranoid antics you respond to every poster with.


I`d think you`d show your US passport to the US border guards upon leaving the country, and showing the Mexican passport to the Mexican border guards upon entering Mexico...

But I agree, you will not loose US citizenship if you obtain Russian citizenship. It is a matter for the US to decide how their citizens can lose citizenship, not for Russia.

SV1973a
29-10-2010, 13:53
And would you get a visa in your Russian passport and use that to enter the United States?

NO, enter the US on a US passport only

kharaku
29-10-2010, 13:54
Use "here" for something which is near to us.

Example: Here is the pencil in my hand.

Use "there" for something which is far from us.

Example: There is the pen next to the lamp.

I don't know if you are, or aren't, but your language suggests otherwise !

I see you're out of useful statements or wiki quotes...

kharaku
29-10-2010, 13:56
I`d think you`d show your US passport to the US border guards upon leaving the country, and showing the Mexican passport to the Mexican border guards upon entering Mexico...

But I agree, you will not loose US citizenship if you obtain Russian citizenship. It is a matter for the US to decide how their citizens can lose citizenship, not for Russia.

Which is why the opening poster who was told by snoffovich that he'd (OMG!) lose his American citizenship was being misinformed (and mistreated).

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 13:59
With your level of naiveté I'm starting to question if you've ever been out of the country.

Do you think the Mexicans who DO bother to hold American citizenship are making sure to show their American passport on the way into Mexico to visit relatives?

Do you think all those who visit Israel for a year to fight in the IDF (which many feel a religious obligation) or the Middle Easterners who work at convenience stores but routinely run home with gifts are traveling there on their US Passports?

.

Firstly, one doesn't need to show * ANY * id when entering Mexico. At least not on foot.

Maybe that has changed in the last few years though. And upon returning to the US, at least in San Diego, again, one doesn't need to show ID. The last time I crossed that border, there wasn't even a turnstyle or a gate ! There was simply a roped off area, and a stern looking guard watching everyone pass. I was disapointed because I wanted a stamp in passport to add to my collection.

Secondly, if a person has dual-citizenship, that person would more than likely follow these procedures-

Buy a plane ticket with the same or almost very nearly same name.

Then:

1. Leave America on American passport
2. Enter country X on country X passport
3. Leave country X on country X passport
4. Enter America on American passport

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 14:03
Secondly, if a person has dual-citizenship, that person would more than likely follow these procedures-

Buy a plane ticket with the same or almost very nearly same name.

Then:

1. Leave America on American passport
2. Enter country X on country X passport
3. Leave country X on country X passport
4. Enter America on American passport

Furthermore,

If one were to enter a third country, in this example, let's say Egypt, one would be able to freely choose which passport to use, ie; either the Russian or American passport.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 14:05
Firstly, one doesn't need to show * ANY * id when entering Mexico. At least not on foot.

Maybe that has changed in the last few years though. And upon returning to the US, at least in San Diego, again, one doesn't need to show ID. The last time I crossed that border, there wasn't even a turnstyle or a gate ! There was simply a roped off area, and a stern looking guard watching everyone pass. I was disapointed because I wanted a stamp in passport to add to my collection.

Secondly, if a person has dual-citizenship, that person would more than likely follow these procedures-

Buy a plane ticket with the same or almost very nearly same name.

Then:

1. Leave America on American passport
2. Enter country X on country X passport
3. Leave country X on country X passport
4. Enter America on American passport

(Never been to Mexico; can't get into Canada without a US passport though)

You do have a semi useful point though:

Dual passport holders MIGHT want to anti up for one way tickets as passport numbers/nationality are recorded.

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 14:08
They enter on the one that doesn't require a visa and exit on the other.

You are suggesting entering on passport X and leaving on passport Y?

kharaku
29-10-2010, 14:11
You are suggesting entering on passport X and leaving on passport Y?

Well last time *I* boarded a jet headed toward the US I needed either a US Passport or Foreign Passport with a Visa in it to board.

But by all means if you ever end up with a pair go ahead and try that; US could even deny you the visa on the Russian passport on the grounds you're American and don't need a visa.

FatAndy
29-10-2010, 14:14
Gentlemen,

It seems to me the discussion goes a bit aside.

Let's turn back and help the guy.

I have no ideas with TRP/PRP at all, I 've acquired Russian citizenship quite earlier (1997) w/o all of these difficulties.

What I definitely know - marriage to Russian citizen helps a lot in getting TRP/PRP and citizenship. The same is if you have parents with RF citizenship or for aged people if they have children with RF citizenship - there is accelerated procedure AFAIK, according to law.

Also accelerated procedure can be applied if the person has special merits - according to law too.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 14:22
Gentlemen,

It seems to me the discussion goes a bit aside.

Let's turn back and help the guy.

I have no ideas with TRP/PRP at all, I 've acquired Russian citizenship quite earlier (1997) w/o all of these difficulties.

What I definitely know - marriage to Russian citizen helps a lot in getting TRP/PRP and citizenship.

My understanding (and this IS from a Russian lawyer) current process is this:
To get citizenship you need to be married to a Russian for at least 3 years.
(I do not recall whether this is the same thing with TRP; I think you can get TRP just for being married... aw screw it let me look... yes... the 3 years is only for citizenship)
http://www.urladoga.ru/?q=en/node/390
(NOT RECOMMENDING THE LAWYER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER DID NOT USE THEM)

For TRP I think you just have to be married?

Never looked into it I've been married for over 5...

NLD
29-10-2010, 14:48
There's a quota for the number of TRPs a region may give out per year. For Moscow I believe this is 1500 a year or so. If you're married to a Russian person, you're exempt from this quota.

There're a lot of other requirements for TRP, see also: http://expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=255221

As for having to leave Russia regularly on a visa, that's true (search for the 180/90 rule on the forum), but in my case (and from the reactions I've gotten I seem to be the only one) I could stay longer than 90 days once I handed in my TRP application. (I.e., I could prolong my registration at UFMS until I got my TRP, not just leave and come back within 90 days.)

generalhavok
29-10-2010, 16:28
Original poster here - I woke up this morning to find many responses to my question! What a nice surprise. I have to go to work, but when I get home, I'll sit down and read through all of your posts, and give credit where credit is due :)
Thanks again!

SV1973a
29-10-2010, 17:23
Well, regarding the loss of citizenship if you take on Russian citizenship, I just found a disturbing thing on www.gosuslugi.ru
Here you can download the application file for RF citizenship.
There is also an `example`, and if you have you have a look at it, you can see that there is a field where you should fill in the `marks` of the letter you send to your embassy.
But now the disturbing thing : the applicant also writes `I promise to return to FMS within one year after receiving RF citizenship with proof that I have given up Ukrainian citizenship`.


7. Сведения либо обязательство об отказе от имеющегося гражданства
Нотариально удостоверенное заявление об отказе от гражданства Украины 39 ВВ 867545 от 24.06.2009, квитанция о почтовом переводе № 453, обязуюсь в течение года после приобретения российского гражданства представить документ полномочного органа Украины о выходе из гражданства Украины
(документ, подтверждающий указанные сведения)



I will have to check the law on RF citizenship again, but in my opinion this is not required by law. Perhaps something FMS added as their own particular rules...
Anybody knows this ????

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 18:24
Well, regarding the loss of citizenship if you take on Russian citizenship, I just found a disturbing thing on www.gosuslugi.ru

Here you can download the application file for RF citizenship.

There is also an `example`, and if you have you have a look at it, you can see that there is a field where you should fill in the `marks` of the letter you send to your embassy.

But now the disturbing thing : the applicant also writes `I promise to return to FMS within one year after receiving RF citizenship with proof that I have given up Ukrainian citizenship`.

7. Сведения либо обязательство об отказе от имеющегося гражданства
Нотариально удостоверенное заявление об отказе от гражданства Украины 39 ВВ 867545 от 24.06.2009, квитанция о почтовом переводе № 453, обязуюсь в течение года после приобретения российского гражданства представить документ полномочного органа Украины о выходе из гражданства Украины
(документ, подтверждающий указанные сведения)



I will have to check the law on RF citizenship again, but in my opinion this is not required by law. Perhaps something FMS added as their own particular rules...
Anybody knows this ????

Maybe the Russian government just doesn't like Ukrainians? ;b

FatAndy
29-10-2010, 19:23
Aha, hating deep in heart...

Just most of such citizenship exchanges of RF occurs with Ukraine, which doesn't support dual citizenship at all (at least it was so at 1997 and I'm almost sure it stays so now).

I think this field/requirement was created to avoid potential long-term juridical problems which can appear if person already has Rus. citizenship but hadn't give up yet from Ukr. one.

kharaku
29-10-2010, 19:40
Maybe the Russian government just doesn't like Ukrainians? ;b

There's no such thing.

xSnoofovich
29-10-2010, 19:54
There's no such thing.

As what?

The Russian government? Ukrainians?

The possibility of liking Ukrainians?

SV1973a
29-10-2010, 20:02
Aha, hating deep in heart...

Just most of such citizenship exchanges of RF occurs with Ukraine, which doesn't support dual citizenship at all (at least it was so at 1997 and I'm almost sure it stays so now).

I think this field/requirement was created to avoid potential long-term juridical problems which can appear if person already has Rus. citizenship but hadn't give up yet from Ukr. one.

So you think this requirement is only for Ukrainians?
Possible, because Ukraine does not allow to have another citizenship. You do need to make a clear choice, Russian or Ukrainian.
Most of the Ukrainians that are standing in line with me, will be all to happy to get rid of their citizenship. Apparently, they have to cross the Russian border every 3 months, and for most of them this is a big hassle.

FatAndy
01-11-2010, 11:00
I think it's just has more frequent usage because of tight relations between Russia and Ukraine (but existing juridical issues) and therefore is left in the form "by default".

So you think this requirement is only for Ukrainians?
Possible, because Ukraine does not allow to have another citizenship. You do need to make a clear choice, Russian or Ukrainian.
Most of the Ukrainians that are standing in line with me, will be all to happy to get rid of their citizenship. Apparently, they have to cross the Russian border every 3 months, and for most of them this is a big hassle.

xSnoofovich
01-11-2010, 13:29
or maybe it is just an example, and maybe the pdf i posted from the lawyers was spot on.


I think it's just has more frequent usage because of tight relations between Russia and Ukraine (but existing juridical issues) and therefore is left in the form "by default".

Ian G
01-11-2010, 14:12
Anyway- to get back to Generalhavok's question:

The procedure is fairly simple.

Get a document from the US confirming that you don't have any criminal convictions. This is necessary for stage 4. Make sure you are ready to travel to Russia as soon as it is issued,as you will need to complete stage 4


1 Come to Russia on a visa that will give you a bit of time here- so a 1 month tourist visa may not be enough, but a 3-month or 1 year business visa, or private invitation visa, should be enough.

2 In Russia arrange the date for the wedding. (Which ZAGS, or Registry office? This will depend on which registry ofice is able to carry out marriages of non- Russian citizens. In Moscow there is only one such Registry office. ) You will need the necessary confirmation from the US consulate that you are not already married. Then while waiting for stage 3 prepare the document s for stage 4.

3 Get married. Have an apostilled affixed to the certificate.

4 Apply for TRP , for which you will need proof of income/ money in a Russian bank, the document confirming you have no criminal convictions , and various other documents. They will need to be translated and notarized by a Russian notary.

5 Now you will have a wait of approx 6 months. Depending on what kind of visa you have you may need to return to the U.S. to get a new visa, or simply because the visa you have does not allow you tostay in Russia more than 3 months at a time. There is no requirement to be in Russia all this time.

6 When the TRP is ready they (the Migration Service where you aplied) will telephone you , or your wife, depending on whose contact details they have. You will need to have a valid visa in order to pick up the TRP and proceed with getting registration etc.

So- there are lots of things I haven't covered here.
About the different types of visa available. (Business, work, private invitation, or tourist)
About the procedure for finding a job and getting employed
About where to get married- which city, which Registry Office. On this point I suggest your fiancee does the research.
About the document you need to get married, and to apply for TRP.

All these are dealt with in detail in many other discussions on this forum.

As for the dual citizenship question , discussed at some length in this thread, I don't think you need to concern yourself with that for at least 5 years. If ever.

Congratulations on your decision and Good luck!

sashadidi
01-11-2010, 21:39
Whew looking above its like being at school again

if this helps there was a wait for Zags when I got married but we by passed that in true fashion by paying a doctor to say my wife was pregant ($100) and 3 days time it happened, was hassle with documents of course , the one that i was free to marry but NZ embassy write something quickly and sorted, was married in Ryazan not moscow. the best of luck to you.

kharaku
02-11-2010, 01:52
Anyway- to get back to Generalhavok's question:

The procedure is fairly simple.

Get a document from the US confirming that you don't have any criminal convictions. This is necessary for stage 4. Make sure you are ready to travel to Russia as soon as it is issued,as you will need to complete stage 4


1 Come to Russia on a visa that will give you a bit of time here- so a 1 month tourist visa may not be enough, but a 3-month or 1 year business visa, or private invitation visa, should be enough.

2 In Russia arrange the date for the wedding. (Which ZAGS, or Registry office? This will depend on which registry ofice is able to carry out marriages of non- Russian citizens. In Moscow there is only one such Registry office. ) You will need the necessary confirmation from the US consulate that you are not already married. Then while waiting for stage 3 prepare the document s for stage 4.

3 Get married. Have an apostilled affixed to the certificate.

4 Apply for TRP , for which you will need proof of income/ money in a Russian bank, the document confirming you have no criminal convictions , and various other documents. They will need to be translated and notarized by a Russian notary.

5 Now you will have a wait of approx 6 months. Depending on what kind of visa you have you may need to return to the U.S. to get a new visa, or simply because the visa you have does not allow you tostay in Russia more than 3 months at a time. There is no requirement to be in Russia all this time.

6 When the TRP is ready they (the Migration Service where you aplied) will telephone you , or your wife, depending on whose contact details they have. You will need to have a valid visa in order to pick up the TRP and proceed with getting registration etc.

So- there are lots of things I haven't covered here.
About the different types of visa available. (Business, work, private invitation, or tourist)
About the procedure for finding a job and getting employed
About where to get married- which city, which Registry Office. On this point I suggest your fiancee does the research.
About the document you need to get married, and to apply for TRP.

All these are dealt with in detail in many other discussions on this forum.

As for the dual citizenship question , discussed at some length in this thread, I don't think you need to concern yourself with that for at least 5 years. If ever.

Congratulations on your decision and Good luck!

Few things here:
firstly there's nothing on the official list of documentation indicating you need to prove income for TRP (fms.ru)

Secondly you should only need to notarize a Russian wedding certificate since it's already in Russian.

TECHNICALLY you can get your criminal record through the US Embassy but God knows how long that process would take...

I'm interested for those who DO have TRP; did anyone call up your spouse or pop by to verify?

SV1973a
02-11-2010, 07:48
I'm interested for those who DO have TRP; did anyone call up your spouse or pop by to verify?

No

NLD
02-11-2010, 10:29
4 Apply for TRP , for which you will need proof of income/ money in a Russian bank, the document confirming you have no criminal convictions , and various other documents. They will need to be translated and notarized by a Russian notary.

I was told that proof of income was only required a year after getting TRP.


6 When the TRP is ready they (the Migration Service where you aplied) will telephone you , or your wife, depending on whose contact details they have.

If you're lucky. Don't expect to be called, but pop by the UFMS office yourself every two weeks or so to check if your name is on the list.

Sorry for sounding like a negative nancy, but in Russia you should really better be safe than sorry :)

NLD
02-11-2010, 10:31
I'm interested for those who DO have TRP; did anyone call up your spouse or pop by to verify?

No, however they did call me to run some errands for them. A month or so after handing in my application, they called me and said I should still get some statement from the tax services, stating that I'm not behind on any taxes or something.

SV1973a
02-11-2010, 10:39
I was told that proof of income was only required a year after getting TRP.

That is right. I filled in my income on the TRP application, but they told me this was not necessary.

Today, I have succesfully applied for the PRP. The FMS-girl told me that now I should not contact them before the 6 months (as is foreseen in the law) are over.
It always amazes me that, no matter what, these people at FMS always can find `errors` on your documents.
This time I had to solve these problems :
- my passport is set up in 4 languages, but for the notarised translation, it only said `translation from French into Russian`. Need for a new translation that says it is translated from all 4 languages.
- I had to present 2-NDFL forms for 2009 AND 2010 (until October). These had to be originals, which I no longer had, because I had given the originals already when I did my yearly re-registration (only the day before I went to apply for PRP).
I asked for new originals at my office, but FMS found another difficulty. It states the INN/KPP number of my company. According to FMS the KPP number was not correct, as it was made up of 9 figures (and there should be 10).
I had to bring a copy of the registration act of our office, to prove that the numbers were correct.

I suppose that Medvedev was only joking when he declared that Russia needs to attract highly qualified specialists. Here I stand, a foreigner that yearly pays over 1 million roubles in taxes (and so pays for a great number of babushkas pensions), in line with all Tadjiks, Turkmens,... that declare yearly incomes of 70000 roubles.
Undoubtedly, my presence has a very positive contribution to the future development of this country, but unfortunately, for FMS this is not a consideration...

tilston15381
02-11-2010, 10:57
if all this relinquishment of your natural passport is true you would have to be CRAZY to do so.

I mean....what EXACTLY are the benefits of having a Russian passport???????

I can't think of any apart from being visa free.

Ian G
02-11-2010, 11:49
Few things here:
firstly there's nothing on the official list of documentation indicating you need to prove income for TRP (fms.ru)

Secondly you should only need to notarize a Russian wedding certificate since it's already in Russian.

TECHNICALLY you can get your criminal record through the US Embassy but God knows how long that process would take...

I'm interested for those who DO have TRP; did anyone call up your spouse or pop by to verify?


I'm pretty sure I had to provide information about my salary either when applying or when recieving TRP- this was in 2008. But -as is often mentioned in discussions about TRP- in practice Migration Service officials often demand extra documents in addition to those on the official list.

No- I didn't get the wedding certificate translated, no reason. But I did get an apostille affixed. Without the apositlle the document is not recognised outside Russia. Of course the apostille is not needed for TRP or Residence in Russia. I got a copy of the wedding certificate notarised for the TRP application.


"Phone up to verify"-
They phoned me a couple of months after I submitted the application to ask me to change one of the documents.

And- when I was waiting for TRP, 6 months after applying, my father in law went to the office every week or so. After two or three such visits they told him 'Don't bother coming in so often, come back in a month'. In the end though they notified us (my wife) by telephone.

SV1973a
02-11-2010, 12:40
if all this relinquishment of your natural passport is true you would have to be CRAZY to do so.

I mean....what EXACTLY are the benefits of having a Russian passport???????

I can't think of any apart from being visa free.

If you really have to give up on your foreign passport, then of course, there is no point in getting a Russian passport.
However, the benefits of having a Russian passport are :
- visa free travel to almost all CIS-countries (and also to some other countries in South-America, Asia,... where I probably will not go to anyway)
- no need for work permit
- no need for yearly re-registration (which means keeping track of all your travels abroad and presenting proof of income)
- `protection` from future changes in legislation that again may make it very difficult for foreigners to work in Russia (we had a little pre-view of such a thing during the 2008-2009 crisis, when work permit quota for foreigners was drastically cut)

kharaku
02-11-2010, 13:44
if all this relinquishment of your natural passport is true you would have to be CRAZY to do so.

I mean....what EXACTLY are the benefits of having a Russian passport???????

I can't think of any apart from being visa free.

okay can anyon tell me assuming that they DO gank you passport what prevents you from taking your social security card and birth certificate which are already apostiled to the US Embassy and telling you 'lost' you passport?

SV1973a
02-11-2010, 13:50
okay can anyon tell me assuming that they DO gank you passport what prevents you from taking your social security card and birth certificate which are already apostiled to the US Embassy and telling you 'lost' you passport?


Russia can NOT take your passport, because it is not your property, but property of your governement.
This is not about the passport, but about the fact that they require you to give up your citizenship.

kharaku
02-11-2010, 13:55
Russia can NOT take your passport, because it is not your property, but property of your governement.
This is not about the passport, but about the fact that they require you to give up your citizenship.

quite but the post i responded too was all worried about them taking the passport

(as discussed they can't really take your citizenship either)

kanga
02-11-2010, 14:02
But the point is that the Russian migration authorities can demand to see proof that you have given up your American citizenship.

kharaku
02-11-2010, 14:04
But the point is that the Russian migration authorities can demand to see proof that you have given up your American citizenship.

has anyone ever seen them do it? it is not according russian migration law necessary (and i haven't see the current application saying you must do this)

SV1973a
02-11-2010, 15:27
has anyone ever seen them do it? it is not according russian migration law necessary (and i haven't see the current application saying you must do this)

Having read the law, I also do not think it is necessary.
However, I posted on this thread what was required from a Ukrainian applicant, i.e. to show proof of having given up his Ukrainian citizenship.

kharaku
02-11-2010, 15:31
Having read the law, I also do not think it is necessary.
However, I posted on this thread what was required from a Ukrainian applicant, i.e. to show proof of having given up his Ukrainian citizenship.

Ya soglasen.

yakspeare
02-11-2010, 16:36
other advantages to having a russian passport as well as your own are more in general nature....like not wishing for certain stamps to appear on certain passports....for example if you wnt to travel to israel, syria, iran and dubai on the one passport you might find it difficult. Having more than one passport can alleviate this.

xSnoofovich
02-11-2010, 16:47
other advantages to having a russian passport as well as your own are more in general nature....like not wishing for certain stamps to appear on certain passports....for example if you wnt to travel to israel, syria, iran and dubai on the one passport you might find it difficult. Having more than one passport can alleviate this.

You could also get credit ! :)

SV1973a
02-11-2010, 16:50
other advantages to having a russian passport as well as your own are more in general nature....like not wishing for certain stamps to appear on certain passports....for example if you wnt to travel to israel, syria, iran and dubai on the one passport you might find it difficult. Having more than one passport can alleviate this.

Yes, but you can do the same with two passport from your country. I have two passports, one I use in Russia, the other I use for travels to other countries (like Georgia).

SV1973a
02-11-2010, 17:04
You could also get credit ! :)

That is a good argument indeed.
Even for such a simple thing as a credit card from Auchan, you absolutely need to have RF passport. A PRP is not sufficient.

xpucu
02-11-2010, 18:52
i am pretty sure that is illegal - you can not have two valid passports from the same country, which i guess doesn't mean you can't claim you've lost it get issued a new one and then use the old one only in other countries that have no way of checking if it is valid or not... still pretty illegal and possibly you'll be in quite the pickle should you ever get caught.:redcard:




Yes, but you can do the same with two passport from your country. I have two passports, one I use in Russia, the other I use for travels to other countries (like Georgia).

SV1973a
02-11-2010, 20:17
i am pretty sure that is illegal - you can not have two valid passports from the same country, which i guess doesn't mean you can't claim you've lost it get issued a new one and then use the old one only in other countries that have no way of checking if it is valid or not... still pretty illegal and possibly you'll be in quite the pickle should you ever get caught.:redcard:

No, not at all illegal. I have two valid passports, issued by my country`s authorities.
There are some BUTs however, if you want to have two passports...
You need to prove (an official letter from your employer for instance) that you need to have two passports.
Reasons can be :
- travelling to countries that have tense relations (example. Israel and the Arab countries)
- many business trips to visa-countries, so that you can travel on one passport, while the other is under visa-processing
- When you enter the state border of a country on passport A, you are obliged to use passport A for identification purposes in that country. So no jingling with passports.
See, nothing illegal about that...

LindsayIlin86
17-04-2011, 17:12
[QUOTE=generalhavok;750300]Hello everyone, I'm new here. I have been searching the internet trying to find some answers to some questions. Sorry, it's a little long, but I figured someone would wind up asking for more details anyways!

Background story:
I'm an American man, 25 years old, very soon, I plan to move to Russia, and marry my fiance. I first met her at school in America, when she was here as an exchange student, and we have been in touch constantly since she went back (7 years!). I have been to Russia before to visit her, on my last trip there in September this year, I proposed to her. I absolutely love it there, and she has no interest in coming to America to live - she's happy, has a good job, and worries about the economy and other problems of America (have we really gotten that bad here?) Like I said, I love the country, and she is the love of my life - trust me on that.
Point is, I'm now graduated from University, have been working a couple years saving up my money, and we've decided that I should go live in Russia with her. So I'm studying Russian, trying to figure out the process, looking at what sorts of jobs I could get in Russia, etc.

So, what I want to do, is to go there early next year, marry her, obtain and eventually become a citizen. So, from what I understand, I need to travel to Moscow, obtain the necessary paper from the American embassy saying that I'm get my documents translated, head to the foreign ministry and get everything approved. Then we need to go to ZAGS and schedule a wedding. Am I correct so far?
Now, once we have our wedding (they say it takes 32 days to get one), how long does it take to get notary public This is one thing I'm concerned about, it seems that it could take a while for this to be done. And, also from what I understand about visas, is that you can only be in Russia for 90 days in a 180 day period! So, does this mean I have to return to America and wait? I want to avoid this, it's expensive to fly back and forth to America, and when I get back to America, I won't have a job or anything to go to anymore, so it just seems like a big waste of money. Or, am I completely wrong about this?
Also, I heard that once you have a notary public it becomes more difficult to leave and come back. Not a big concern to me, I don't plan on going anywhere, but I was curious. And finally, I am told that after 3 years, I can become a citizen.

Is there anyone here who knows more about this process, or has perhaps done it themselves? Any advice? I appreciate anyone who can help this crazy American and hopefulfuture Russian! :)[/QUOTE
I hope i am not to late to help .........
First thing
you can not get
free to marry affidavit in Russia You have to do that in Your state with a lawer.and have your county Notary put a stamp for your county .
Embassy Can not do this or put a stamp from your state .and county
Then you need to usae your Secretary of State office to get APOSTILLE Certified
You can not get this at the US.Embassy In Moscow or in St Petersburg needs come from the State wear you are living all papers most have all dates that are right on all papers .
You then need to have your passport Free to marry affidavit Your Apostille All
and then you can take all this paper work to a Russian notary public and then to ZAGS.
the person you are getting married to needs to show there passport and fill out papers for zages if you have a visa and if you got to leave russia soon they will help you get a date
soon then waiting 32 days . please note that

For temporary residence,you need to have A background check A HIV TEST your visa your passport and the marriage certificate and the person you plan to live with and stay with there to sing papers and prove that they can help you live hear and stay hear and the HIV TEST and back ground Check Marriage certificate is all ready in russian But you need to translated
HIV TEST and Background check The person that is going to marry you need to show income pappers and ther passport
NOTE that this can take up to sx months or a year or shorter
You can not get Cititezn ship right off and you can not work for 3 to 1 year
I am going thur this right now My husband and are just married 3 days agao I love russia and the people and the food and the way of life I am from the USA I want to live hear and have our kids grow up hear get ready for your wedding they wedding is way much funner hear then in the usa with all the games and shows the family puts on for you and all the food and friends and family family is a big thing hear and i love my new family with all my heart I know there is alot of paper work to do but it is all wearth it and i love russian and how it souds

LindsayIlin86
17-04-2011, 17:18
[QUOTE=generalhavok;750300]Hello everyone, I'm new here. I have been searching the internet trying to find some answers to some questions. Sorry, it's a little long, but I figured someone would wind up asking for more details anyways!

Background story:
I'm an American man, 25 years old, very soon, I plan to move to Russia, and marry my fiance. I first met her at school in America, when she was here as an exchange student, and we have been in touch constantly since she went back (7 years!). I have been to Russia before to visit her, on my last trip there in September this year, I proposed to her. I absolutely love it there, and she has no interest in coming to America to live - she's happy, has a good job, and worries about the economy and other problems of America (have we really gotten that bad here?) Like I said, I love the country, and she is the love of my life - trust me on that.
Point is, I'm now graduated from University, have been working a couple years saving up my money, and we've decided that I should go live in Russia with her. So I'm studying Russian, trying to figure out the process, looking at what sorts of jobs I could get in Russia, etc.

So, what I want to do, is to go there early next year, marry her, obtain and eventually become a citizen. So, from what I understand, I need to travel to Moscow, obtain the necessary paper from the American embassy saying that I'm get my documents translated, head to the foreign ministry and get everything approved. Then we need to go to ZAGS and schedule a wedding. Am I correct so far?
Now, once we have our wedding (they say it takes 32 days to get one), how long does it take to get notary public This is one thing I'm concerned about, it seems that it could take a while for this to be done. And, also from what I understand about visas, is that you can only be in Russia for 90 days in a 180 day period! So, does this mean I have to return to America and wait? I want to avoid this, it's expensive to fly back and forth to America, and when I get back to America, I won't have a job or anything to go to anymore, so it just seems like a big waste of money. Or, am I completely wrong about this?
Also, I heard that once you have a notary public it becomes more difficult to leave and come back. Not a big concern to me, I don't plan on going anywhere, but I was curious. And finally, I am told that after 3 years, I can become a citizen.

Is there anyone here who knows more about this process, or has perhaps done it themselves? Any advice? I appreciate anyone who can help this crazy American and hopefulfuture Russian! :)[/QUOTE
I hope i am not to late to help .........
First thing
you can not get
free to marry affidavit in Russia You have to do that in Your state with a lawer.and have your county Notary put a stamp for your county .
Embassy Can not do this or put a stamp from your state .and county
Then you need to usae your Secretary of State office to get APOSTILLE Certified
You can not get this at the US.Embassy In Moscow or in St Petersburg needs come from the State wear you are living all papers most have all dates that are right on all papers .
You then need to have your passport Free to marry affidavit Your Apostille All
and then you can take all this paper work to a Russian notary public and then to ZAGS.
the person you are getting married to needs to show there passport and fill out papers for zages if you have a visa and if you got to leave russia soon they will help you get a date
soon then waiting 32 days . please note that

For temporary residence,you need to have A background check A HIV TEST your visa your passport and the marriage certificate and the person you plan to live with and stay with there to sing papers and prove that they can help you live hear and stay hear and the HIV TEST and back ground Check Marriage certificate is all ready in russian But you need to translated
HIV TEST and Background check The person that is going to marry you need to show income pappers and ther passport
NOTE that this can take up to sx months or a year or shorter
You can not get Cititezn ship right off and you can not work for 3 to 1 year
I am going thur this right now My husband and are just married 3 days agao I love russia and the people and the food and the way of life I am from the USA I want to live hear and have our kids grow up hear get ready for your wedding they wedding is way much funner hear then in the usa with all the games and shows the family puts on for you and all the food and friends and family family is a big thing hear and i love my new family with all my heart I know there is alot of paper work to do but it is all wearth it and i love russian and how it souds

sis
17-04-2011, 21:12
this post is a little old, but i felt like putting my 2 cents in...

I saw that general havoc's last post was something about working for English first, after that he seems to have disappeared.

The germans have a saying "hunger lohn" which means a starving salary.. I hope general havoc is alright. Anybody know what happened to him?

cwmacdougall
01-08-2011, 06:32
The biggest concern I would have about getting a Russian Visa based on marriage to a Russian is that apparently an EXIT VISA is required to leave, and I heard that takes six weeks to obtain. (It's a rare survival of the former Soviet requirement of exit visas, now no longer required for Russian citizens.) Has anyone had experience with that, and is it required for each and every exit?

bydand
01-08-2011, 12:54
The biggest concern I would have about getting a Russian Visa based on marriage to a Russian is that apparently an EXIT VISA is required to leave, and I heard that takes six weeks to obtain. (It's a rare survival of the former Soviet requirement of exit visas, now no longer required for Russian citizens.) Has anyone had experience with that, and is it required for each and every exit?

Unfortunately, I have had experience with that. I had a TRP and actually went to the local "Passport Table" to make sure I had all the necessary papers to make a short trip back to America with my Russian wife. They assured us I had everything I needed.

We got to the airport, and they would not let me leave! I needed an exit visa! The (not so) funny thing is, my wife could leave (she didn't) because she had a "green card" at the time, yet me being an American citizen was not allowed on the plane. Expensive mistake.

It can take up to six weeks to get an exit visa, best to get one at the same time you get your TRP. Best also to not assume "officials" know what they are talking about. Do your own research, as difficult as it may be to find out "the law" in Russia. :eek:

Edit: P.S. The exit visa has two pictures of you in its three parts. One you surrender upon leaving, the other when you return. You can throw out the third (middle part) after your return, its then worthless, an exit visa is a one time deal. If you want to leave again you need another one.

Bogatyr
01-08-2011, 16:14
Unfortunately, I have had experience with that. I had a TRP and actually went to the local "Passport Table" to make sure I had all the necessary papers to make a short trip back to America with my Russian wife. They assured us I had everything I needed.

We got to the airport, and they would not let me leave! I needed an exit visa! The (not so) funny thing is, my wife could leave (she didn't) because she had a "green card" at the time, yet me being an American citizen was not allowed on the plane. Expensive mistake.

It can take up to six weeks to get an exit visa, best to get one at the same time you get your TRP. Best also to not assume "officials" know what they are talking about. Do your own research, as difficult as it may be to find out "the law" in Russia. :eek:

Edit: P.S. The exit visa has two pictures of you in its three parts. One you surrender upon leaving, the other when you return. You can throw out the third (middle part) after your return, its then worthless, an exit visa is a one time deal. If you want to leave again you need another one.

This info is out of date, the TRP exit visa procedure changed in 2010. Now, with TRP the visa you receive is a multi-entrance visa good for your entire TRP validity. Also, it is free now (not 1000 rubles for each single-exit/enter visa). I think the official period to receive it is 10 days after application, but actual times can vary.

Although, not everybody may understand how to process the new TRP visa properly, since it mostly still looks like the old one-shot deals except that now they have the word "многократное" written on them. I went for one trip outside of Russia after receiving TRP (with the new multi-entry visa) and had the same 3-part visa: exit, middle, entrance parts. The passport control officer removed the exit page, which I thought might be a mistake since it's a multi-exit/enter visa now, and she gave me the famous icy glare and said "I did exactly what I was supposed to do."

When I entered Russia upon my return the officer did not remove the entry part of the visa. My wife asked an official at the airport and supposedly they're supposed to take the exit part the first time out of the country. I hope the visa is still good without the exit page...(if anybody knows for sure, please say so!)

p.s. not letting you leave is better than letting you leave, not letting you back in, and canceling your hard-won TRP!

bydand
01-08-2011, 22:16
I must respectfully disagree Bogatyr, except for the ...(if anybody knows for sure, please say so!).

I just traveled June 2011, and am convinced Russian "officials" don't necessarily know the laws they are supposed to know, and good luck trying to find a creditable source for the constantly changing (vagaries of beurocrats?) laws.

NLD
02-08-2011, 09:22
OK, my take on the subject. I've had a few "huh"s reading this topic, so here goes: a week or so after getting my TRP and registration (in July 2010), I applied for an exit visa (выездная виза) at UFMS at Покровка 42. It was done after 10 business days.

The actual visa is a sticker, which they glued into my passport, just like the business and tourist visas before that. It indeed says "многократное" and has a validity of three years (same as TRP), so there's no need to get a new exit visa every time you leave. Also, it was indeed free. (Looks like there is some improvement in the entire process after all, compared to the 1000 ruble one-time only exit visas!)

When leaving the country there was no tear-off part or anything, they simply put a stamp on an empty page (not on the visa itself). When getting back in I usually get a migration card, but once I got in without one, and left without problems. (I did need a migration card for my work permit, so better just ask for one anyway...)

At Domodedovo airport they printed the migration card out for me, the inviting party was "РФ" :) At Sheremetyevo airport I still had to fill out the form myself.

And as for vague or conflicting laws, better have as many documents with you as you can: they like that kind of thing, lots of documents :P

Bogatyr
02-08-2011, 12:17
I must respectfully disagree Bogatyr, except for the ...(if anybody knows for sure, please say so!).

I just traveled June 2011, and am convinced Russian "officials" don't necessarily know the laws they are supposed to know, and good luck trying to find a creditable source for the constantly changing (vagaries of beurocrats?) laws.

Disagree with what? You will find other threads here in the last year describing this change to the multi-exit/entry visa. I had pre-paid the 1000 ruble fee for the TRP visa then when I came back to finish the application they said "it's free now, the law changed."

Certainly getting officials from different departments (or different offices in the same department) each have their own opinion, but the law is the law, and the change of TRP visa to multi-entry for the duration of the TRP is quite well documented.

Bogatyr
02-08-2011, 12:22
OK, my take on the subject. I've had a few "huh"s reading this topic, so here goes: a week or so after getting my TRP and registration (in July 2010), I applied for an exit visa (выездная виза) at UFMS at Покровка 42. It was done after 10 business days.

The actual visa is a sticker, which they glued into my passport, just like the business and tourist visas before that. It indeed says "многократное" and has a validity of three years (same as TRP), so there's no need to get a new exit visa every time you leave. Also, it was indeed free. (Looks like there is some improvement in the entire process after all, compared to the 1000 ruble one-time only exit visas!)

When leaving the country there was no tear-off part or anything, they simply put a stamp on an empty page (not on the visa itself). When getting back in I usually get a migration card, but once I got in without one, and left without problems. (I did need a migration card for my work permit, so better just ask for one anyway...)

At Domodedovo airport they printed the migration card out for me, the inviting party was "РФ" :) At Sheremetyevo airport I still had to fill out the form myself.

And as for vague or conflicting laws, better have as many documents with you as you can: they like that kind of thing, lots of documents :P

I wish I had gotten a passport sticker visa instead of the converted single-use exit/entry visa 3-sheet green separate visa. The separate 3-sheet green paper visa is too large to fit into the passport (easier to lose, damage, etc.), and now I don't know if I can leave the country with it since the exit page is gone.

Bogatyr
02-08-2011, 12:36
I must respectfully disagree Bogatyr, except for the ...(if anybody knows for sure, please say so!).

I just traveled June 2011, and am convinced Russian "officials" don't necessarily know the laws they are supposed to know, and good luck trying to find a creditable source for the constantly changing (vagaries of beurocrats?) laws.

BTW, the passport table doesn't know anything about TRP, the FMS "okno" where you formulated your TRP is probably the only other place to ask questions with any chance of getting an accurate answer.

The single best source of information to help reach the "truth" I've found is reading posts right here on expat. I spent weeks/months reading posts and asking questions in the TRP area of expat.ru forums before coming to Russia.

Nobody can predict your exact experience of course, since individual officials do differ, but one thing the forums are very, very clear on is the need for the exit/entry visa specifically for TRP holders who wish to travel briefly outside of Russia. There is a treasure trove of experiences/information in past threads, I highly recommend that all TRP/PRP holders or applicants thoroughly read the residency threads in this forum.

Nobody will disagree that "Russian officials ... don't know the laws". TRP holders are very rare compared to the # of tourists/business people crossing the borders. So you have to arm yourself and prepare with knowledge as best you can.

Candia
28-08-2011, 23:42
Hi All,
Here is my situation and then my question,
I have been in Russia for 2 yrs on biz visas and have met a lady I intend to marry. Not uncommon so far, my new biz visa has been nobbled by some one as my invitation will not be sent on to the Consulate in Toronto. I believe I know the reason why due to a disgruntled Russian biz man who has some connections.
I have never had a perking ticket and always left the country the day before the visa ran out. I am "blacklisted" now there is one more option left to me which I do not hold too much hope for.
My question is this: when I get married to my partner in Cyprus how can I get back into the country to go to the OVIR office to hand in the docs for a TRP with my Then Russian wife. Is there a way to get around this at all that anyone can suggest or someone in Russia we should be speaking to?
Any answers gratefully received.
Thanks Nick

Cubrilo
03-09-2011, 13:31
Originally Posted by cwmacdougall The biggest concern I would have about getting a Russian Visa based on marriage to a Russian is that apparently an EXIT VISA is required to leave, and I heard that takes six weeks to obtain. (It's a rare survival of the former Soviet requirement of exit visas, now no longer required for Russian citizens.) Has anyone had experience with that, and is it required for each and every exit?
Unfortunately, I have had experience with that. I had a TRP and actually went to the local "Passport Table" to make sure I had all the necessary papers to make a short trip back to America with my Russian wife. They assured us I had everything I needed.
We got to the airport, and they would not let me leave! I needed an exit visa! The (not so) funny thing is, my wife could leave (she didn't) because she had a "green card" at the time, yet me being an American citizen was not allowed on the plane. Expensive mistake.
Just because you don't know something it does not mean that it it "vague" or "constantly changing". Every ordinary foreign citizen needs to have a valid visa both to enter and exit country (obviously), nothing strange ("Soviet" ) about it. If you got TRP is says "Permit to STAY" in plain English, not to travel, so you cannot enter/exit before getting yourself a valid visa.
At the "Passport Table" they told you to go to the airport, and you went. What about telling you to jump of the cliff, would you jump? Maybe in US you do what somebody tell you, here there is a law which tells do's/don'ts.

SV1973a
03-09-2011, 14:55
Every ordinary foreign citizen needs to have a valid visa both to enter and exit country (obviously), nothing strange ("Soviet" ) about it. If you got TRP is says "Permit to STAY" in plain English, not to travel, so you cannot enter/exit before getting yourself a valid visa.

Although what you write here is fully correct, I feel (and I am sure that most people, including Russians share my opinion) that the TRP should automatically give you the right to freely exit/entry the country.
Just out of curiosity, do you know any other countries that grant residence permits but still require visas ???
Luckily, it is not difficult to get the exit visa, it is free, and it is multiple, valid till the end of TRP.
When I just got my TRP, I still needed an exit visa for every trip I needed to make.


At the "Passport Table" they told you to go to the airport, and you went. What about telling you to jump of the cliff, would you jump?

Which is indeed rather stupid.


...here there is a law which tells do's/don'ts.

My experience with these do`s/don`ts, is that it is largely up to each individual officer to determine which of do`s and don`ts you need to follow. Clearly, there is NO rule of law in Russia.