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Moscow Wolf
18-06-2005, 15:01
Would or could it be feasible to have a folder or perhaps a sub-folder where members could list their experiences of dealing with the Militia?

As most of us are aware, we are getting more than our fare share of hassle from the boys in blue with being stopped and interrogated on the streets, dragged off down the station on some false pretentions to be fleeced of our hard earned dosh..............

If members could list their experiences with locations, stations they were dragged off to etc, then we would be able to compile a list of the 'hot spots' for checks, the stations they drag us off to and the tactics they use. We could then perhaps send reports to our embassies of what is going on and they MIGHT make some complaints on our behalf without having to mention names.

My 10 pence worth - what do you think?

equalizer
18-06-2005, 15:49
Would or could it be feasible to have a folder or perhaps a sub-folder where members could list their experiences of dealing with the Militia?

As most of us are aware, we are getting more than our fare share of hassle from the boys in blue with being stopped and interrogated on the streets, dragged off down the station on some false pretensions to be fleeced of our hard earned dosh..............

If members could list their experiences with locations, stations they were dragged off to etc, then we would be able to compile a list of the 'hot spots' for checks, the stations they drag us off to and the tactics they use. We could then perhaps send reports to our embassies of what is going on and they MIGHT make some complaints on our behalf without having to mention names.

My 10 pence worth - what do you think?


last time i needed to speak to the consul (knowing he was in his office 6 metres from the reception window )a young Russian know all told me that if i wrote the question down on a piece of paper he would read it and she would give the answer.
considering it was a private question i passed on that option and said it will take ten seconds of his time, again she looked smugly at the paper,so in point i have little or no faith in the consular dept to do anything in Moscow.
except the middle aged woman who works as the secretary she tries her best,but working with this lot must be fun

Halyavshik
18-06-2005, 17:07
It's a nice idea, Wolfie, but it'd do f*ck-all, if you ask me. How many times has The Moscow Times written about this ? How many complaints have embassies made ? I mean, if it happens on Red Square, Tverskaya, and the Garden Ring Road, then I think it's pretty clear they're operating with near impunity for their actions. It'll take something from within to change this.

So given that it won't change anything, what's the point of knowing where it happens really ? If they want to take you in they will, one way or the other.

In a recent incident where a friend had all his documents, the police STILL took him in to shake him down on the basis that they said the photograph of his work permit didn't REALLY look like him and must be false. Not even being prepared before hand will change this.

I would also add that this incindent was the first time in 12 years that I've ever been taken to a station. So, I'm not convinced from my own personal experience that this is as large a problem as you make it out to be. But, maybe that's just me.

DPG
18-06-2005, 18:30
So, I'm not convinced from my own personal experience that this is as large a problem as you make it out to be. But, maybe that's just me.

WHAT?!

Ok, this one gets polled!

I stood in a police station for hours after having been in Moscow for all of about 4 months...

I've been stopped for nothing countless times...

I think that the embassies should be taking a more proactive (or even a demonstrably reactive) stance on this issue. Obviously, I as a Brit can't do anything where the American Embassy is concerned (a place outside of which I was passport checked, btw) but perhaps a letter to the British Embassy with a petition with British expat signatures (and someone doing similarly to the American/Australian etc) could get the ball rolling in some respect??

Braders
18-06-2005, 20:06
I like the idea and think the forum should be created similar in style to the restaurants sub-forum.

Possibly an anonymous username for members who don't want their username to be revealed.

The folder will be taken very seriously and any fooling around will earn that person retricted access.

The format could be the following:

Metro -
Reason -
Amount (if a bribe was necessary) -
Other comments -

I have noticed in recent years i have more problems with the militisa, than i did between 1993-2001.

equalizer
18-06-2005, 20:27
i think most expats here will recieve most agro from the other departments of the militsa,ie economic dept or the former organized crime dept pronounced rouop who were disbanded due to unbelivable acts they out in the name of the law or the new tax depts
most buisness men used the roup to simply get one over on a rival and hencse their dimise.
regarding the local boys in blue i have never had any bad instances with them,maybe because i never use the metro,but i think treat them with respect and you will get it back.
traffic cops its simple just pay them its a daily tax for bad driving

Kingwillhe
18-06-2005, 23:12
i think most expats here will recieve most agro from the other departments of the militsa,ie economic dept or the former organized crime dept pronounced rouop who were disbanded due to unbelivable acts they out in the name of the law or the new tax depts
most buisness men used the roup to simply get one over on a rival and hencse their dimise.
regarding the local boys in blue i have never had any bad instances with them,maybe because i never use the metro,but i think treat them with respect and you will get it back.
traffic cops its simple just pay them its a daily tax for bad driving
1) I think the percentage of expats who are business people is greatly reduced!
2) Most expats use the Metro (judging by the posts).
3) Those that do drive all have bad GIA stories not related to bad driving!
4) I've been stopped 3 times (in 6 months) by Militzia, an obvious foreigner wearing a suit! If I dress down, keep my mouth shut and put a beer in my mitt, no hassles.

Lled
19-06-2005, 11:55
It happens all day every day, based on the obvious fact that all of us have had our (un)fair brush with corrupt slimeballs in uniform. Deny it and I get a sense of shoulder-shrugging 1939 it's-not-really-happening deja vu.

A good number of the uniformed "helpers" are morally challenged enough to follow anything the boss says, so fun "fines" for the foreigners is about as good as it'll ever be while this lot still have their jobs..

We have working for us a Russian Police Law lecturer. He has 20 years service for the Moscow Police, big guy and decent as you want. Discussing my and my friends "problems" he says it is a known fact though how to solve the problem is an enigma at the very least.

The folder is a good idea. Action is better than sitting around paying these SOB's, rattle cages regularly and stuff happens

Halyavshik
19-06-2005, 13:33
Really, folks, when was the last time you saw Russia act because of the disadvantageous affect something had on the local populace or foreign tourists/guests ? If they gave two hoots about an embassy complaint, then it wouldn't have been going on for 15 years. Do you really think complaints haven't been made in the past (and from far more influential people than a bunch of nongs from an internet forum site) ?

It's a sad fact of life here that ain't gonna change until the powers that be stop wasting millions of dollars for May 9th celebrations and pay law enforcement wages something higher than most of leave as tips in a restaurant.

It'll happen all over the center and pretty soon, whatever folder you have for it, will just be a list of every single metro in the center and beyond.

Ned Kelly
20-06-2005, 00:03
It's a sad fact of life here that ain't gonna change until the powers that be stop wasting millions of dollars for May 9th celebrations and pay law enforcement wages something higher than most of leave as tips in a restaurant.

exactly! and that hasn't happened in the first thousand years of the country's existence so i wouldnt hold your breath over the next.

the folder i guess might be of interest to people coming to moscow for the first time to have some pre-warning of the issue. it is not going to change things a jot though.

J.D.
20-06-2005, 09:17
I think the folder would be a good idea. I have no illusions about changing the cops here but some tips on how to avoid problems could be usefull, especially for the new guys.
I was stopped more often in the begining but now I know how to 'fit in'.
Tip one 'don't speak English so much on the street.'
Two 'don't wear red or yellow jackets'
Three 'don't go to a cop to complain about something'

Halyavshik
20-06-2005, 10:09
I think the folder would be a good idea. I have no illusions about changing the cops here but some tips on how to avoid problems could be usefull, especially for the new guys.

I'm not sure I see why that would require a separate folder, but whatever floats your boat.

J.D.
20-06-2005, 10:20
I'm not sure I see why that would require a separate folder, but whatever floats your boat.

Just for ease of research in the future. Perhaps a document summing up old expat's tips would be better.

Ned Kelly
20-06-2005, 12:59
Tip one 'don't speak English so much on the street.'
Two 'don't wear red or yellow jackets'


do you still wear the hat with the spinning propeller on top or is that gone too?!?

Moscow Wolf
20-06-2005, 16:33
You mean like your one with the dangling corks!

I'm ok jack, I've got a get me out of jail card, but even so I'd like to know my rights and I don't. I don't have a great problem being stopped and having my documents checked, but I really don't like the questioning of where I have just come from or where I'm going etc etc. The main problem with a fair percentage of us is that we're not strictly legit, my own OVIR registration is suspect to say the least so I can't give them the big 'F' off on the street however, I do know that if I'm taken down the 'nick' I'll be out fairly quicky - that's my comfort factor.

I wasn't thinking of compiling information for the Consul but the 'security officer' of my embassy in particular. He does take an interest, its his job to do so. I agree that the 'system' is not going to change over night, but folks should try to make things better for themselves and there fellow man........... yawn.

It just seems that the 'checks' are much more frequent than they used to be. That criminal DPG and myself got stopped one night as we were crossing the road by a mobile patrol. The Officer with a cigarette in his mouth was just looking for a crevice to open up for a bribe, when he couldn't find anything wrong, I asked him why he'd stopped us. He said, 'well it's late'. DPG gets a taxi home and a few minutes later has to go through the whole scenario again with another crew. Its funny in a lot of cases and not in others. Got to the point where I was actually trying to sneak in and out of the Manesh to avoid those document checking cops. The offical fine for not having OVIR registration is now R3,000 but if they get you down the 'nick' its going to double or treble as they know that you can't afford to be listed on the computer.

I guess that the main thing here is being 100% legit to try and avoid being lifted in the first place.

I'm off to the plastic surgeon now to have that 'Foreigner, I've got a few dollars' tattoo removed from my forehead. :rolleyes:

boscoe
20-06-2005, 17:05
It's a sad fact of life here that ain't gonna change until the powers that be stop wasting millions of dollars for May 9th celebrations and pay law enforcement wages something higher than most of leave as tips in a restaurant.



1. I've never seen you leave a tip in a restaurant.
2. Forget May 9th Celebrations... do you pay your taxes here?

Moscow Wolf
20-06-2005, 17:27
I wish you lot would stop using 'BIG' words like 'Work Permits' and 'Taxes'. What happened to the old Arfur Daley spirit of things.

Ps. Have you done my 'Doctor On Call' car window sticker in Russian yet. Actually on second thoughts, forget it, that would be about as useful as a wet match in a storm here, would it not.

equalizer
20-06-2005, 18:18
I wish you lot would stop using 'BIG' words like 'Work Permits' and 'Taxes'. What happened to the old Arfur Daley spirit of things.

Ps. Have you done my 'Doctor On Call' car window sticker in Russian yet. Actually on second thoughts, forget it, that would be about as useful as a wet match in a storm here, would it not.
no your not wrong there there are a few signs you can put on your window to stop unsolicited stops here,i watched on the news one days in 2002 as there was a blitz at the arc on kutovsky, where all cars with official signs and/or blue lights were stopped and checked.
a few lights and stickers were taken away and not a lot said,max fine for the blue light was 2000r that year but neg to 1000r

Moscow Wolf
21-06-2005, 16:59
I think that a 'blue light' on my OKA might look a bit suss! It has got Carlos Vandango super wide wheels though. lol