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Carbo
26-08-2010, 14:48
Ladies and chaps,

As some of you will be aware, my recent activity here has been characterized by often incendiary arguments with certain other members of the forum. While I actually come here specifically because the arguments are more knockabout than on the more genteel RedTape, I have been over the last several weeks threatened, either on the forum or by PM, on three separate occasions. I really couldnít care less about the insults, but the threats are more serious.

Today, most of you will notice that someone posting as Carbonics, which I assume is the latest moniker used by Guest/Zingo, is accusing me of working for the British intelligence services. Just before Zingo was banned, several of his posts carried similar accusations, and it was clear that he had convinced himself that I was somehow part of some MI6 activity to spread anti-Russia propaganda, and that these forums were one of the means by which I discharged this duty.

Most of you who know me will know how laughable that is, and I would laugh myself, if at some dark recess at the back of my mind I didnít worry that Russia isnít exactly free of (the probably justified, frankly) paranoia that this sort of thing is going on. God knows who's going to pick up on this kind of thing.

This, combined with the threats, has convinced me that things are getting rather too serious and that it is time to draw my time here to a close.

I wouldnít really mention anything about leaving -- I always think it looks conceited and frankly sad when people make such a fuss, and I suspect that people here will be split between those who couldnít give a toss that Iím going and those who will be ecstatic -- but I couldnít bring myself to go without defending myself against the insidious lies spread by one or two people here that I somehow hate Russia.

Actually, I love Russia and its people, but apparently, if you don't agree with everything the Russian government does and don't hate America, youíre a racist anti Russian. Rather than give you chapter and verse about my views, or try to justify myself any more, I will invite those who think Iím anti-Russia to read the following blog entries I wrote about 18 months ago strongly criticising the western pressí approach to covering Russia.

http://parallaxbrief.wordpress.com/2009/01/16/putin-and-the-cult-of-slothful-journalism/
http://parallaxbrief.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/time-for-a-better-understanding-of-russia-russian/

Ironically the opposition leader I was accused of colluding with, Boris Nemtsov, was also the subject of one of my entries, in which I basically said he was a terrible, no-hoper politician with bad policies that had no popularity here in Russia.

http://parallaxbrief.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/time-for-a-better-understanding-of-russia-russian/

Sadly, the experience I have of the posters who accuse me of anti-Russia bias makes me suspect that they will not bother reading them for fear that their preconceptions will be challenged.

Anyway, now that Iíve made my point, I shall, to the pleasure of many, leave.

Iíve sent a message to the moderators asking that my account be deleted altogether, so can anyone who wishes to contact me please do so via PM to Gypsy or MissAnnElk. I hope they wonít mind me using their names as proxies.

ReallyGreatConcerts
26-08-2010, 14:58
I am sorry it's come to this, and I hope you will reconsider.

Your arguments have been characterised as inflammatory, and I'm sure you posted them with the intention of provoking "robust" responses. But of late there has actually been a lot of interesting and informed discussion, once the pissing-up-the-wall competition was declared a draw.

Willy
26-08-2010, 15:25
I don't think you can have your account deleted Carbo.


I can't say you haven't brought this on yourself.


They will look at those blogs and say your just trying to throw people off your true feelings.


You never did understand that just by the way you write you offend people. That first you must question their intelligence to prove you know better. I don't think you would talk to people face to face like you write here. I found it very insulting your arrogant condescending tone. You just don't understand Russian culture and how not to be rude. It's like that British chick in the UAE that walked around a mall in a bikini. This is not England, Russians have a different way of doing things and it's not for you to judge, unless you want to be judge too.

And Carbo you don't have to hate America, some of my Russian friends like it just fine. You just can't go around saying it's better than Russia.

I guess I come under the "I could give a toss" but it would have been nice for you to say sorry to me before you left. You did insult me pretty good too you know. Oh well I wish you luck and hope that nothing bad happens to you, because as I understand it, they don't care if you leave the forum, they want you out of Russia. Great you could invoke such a feeling in people. Just don't try protect your ego so much and it won't happen.

Willy
26-08-2010, 15:28
I am sorry it's come to this, and I hope you will reconsider.

Your arguments have been characterised as inflammatory, and I'm sure you posted them with the intention of provoking "robust" responses. But of late there has actually been a lot of interesting and informed discussion, once the pissing-up-the-wall competition was declared a draw.



It seem to me he and Gypsy thought they won. I just never cared who won or lost. I doesn't matter, all look like fools. Read my sig.

xSnoofovich
26-08-2010, 15:50
One time, a few years back, somewhere in Moscow, I happened to find myself in a bathroom with a black African guy. Somehow a conversation was struck up. He asked me what I was doing in Moscow, and I told him teaching English. He laughed and said I worked for the CIA. I laughed and said nope ! But somehow it got stuck in his head that I was lying. Anyways, he started shouting that I was CIA and so I quickly left. He followed me around the cafe still shouting that I was CIA and that I was following him and trying to kill him.


So, I guess crazy happens !

Joe Kilroy
26-08-2010, 16:00
I am sorry to see you go Carbo. If there is no chance of changing something, best to leave.

Willy
26-08-2010, 16:24
Only a country which is very insecure in itself, is so afraid of criticism and different views. People who can't win arguments in a normal civilised way always resort to insult and bully tactics. In Russia, if you don't support the government line, the hynenas will come for you.
But hyenas are such ugly animals, hunting in packs. This site is becoming quite fascistic in its tone. It''s a shame the Admin here are allowing it to go down this road. It is meant to be a site for Expats, but seems to be patrolled by a small band of thugs with bad English.

I posted this because I know Carbo and Gypsy in real life. I know they are good men, kind people. It is sad that he has decided to leave. I too won't be staying around here. Not when people are threatening others, like Carbo has been threatened. Moderators, I think it is time to look at the way your site is going. There is a very nasty atmosphere in Expat now. Ok, I have said my piece, now I am off to the beach for a swim. Y'all have a nice day now.



So you just came to insult this forum and everybody on it? Nice. Carbo got himself into this mess, and I find it funny you mention hyenas, did you see how Carbo Gypsy and friends worked in a pack here?

Maybe your right about Russia but to say that to someone is very rude.

Carbo and Gypsy proved who they are here. You don't need to tell us.

Willy
26-08-2010, 16:34
I am sorry to see you go Carbo. If there is no chance of changing something, best to leave.



We're waiting

Bye :wavey:

Willy
26-08-2010, 16:43
One time, a few years back, somewhere in Moscow, I happened to find myself in a bathroom with a black African guy. Somehow a conversation was struck up. He asked me what I was doing in Moscow, and I told him teaching English. He laughed and said I worked for the CIA. I laughed and said nope ! But somehow it got stuck in his head that I was lying. Anyways, he started shouting that I was CIA and so I quickly left. He followed me around the cafe still shouting that I was CIA and that I was following him and trying to kill him.


So, I guess crazy happens !



What are you talking about?


I played a concert at Dinamo with Aria and bunch of big Russian hard rock bands and they showed me on TV and said I was from the CIA because the bass drum I was playing had a broken drum head. Said I broke it to ruin the show. It was broken when I got up to play. The day after they showed it on TV I was in the metro and two young kids were looking at me and talking. I didn't know what was going on until I told my wife and she said " look you dummy you were on national TV last night, they just saw you'


It's not something to worry about. i think they say the same things in America. I know one Russian who kept being accused of being in the mafia.

ReallyGreatConcerts
26-08-2010, 17:16
hey, russkie, KGB!
we beat you rooskies in WW2, suckasses!
your country sucks and you have lines for bread
your woman are all fat & ugly
we should nuke you f**king commies
no wonder you suck with all that snow all the time
you hate us for our freedoms
Madman Putin, invader of innocent Georgia


Just some of the "wisdom" you can find about Russia on the internet...

Willy
26-08-2010, 17:25
Here's the banning message I got from redtape,


You have been banned for the following reason:
This site does not support the insults and fights that exist on other sites you're on. You were banned once, you don't get to come back.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never



gee I wonder what site they mean?

Willy
26-08-2010, 17:37
YouTube- Frank Zappa - Suicide chump -1978

Swordfish90293
26-08-2010, 17:41
hey, russkie, KGB!
we beat you rooskies in WW2, suckasses!
your country sucks and you have lines for bread
your woman are all fat & ugly
we should nuke you f**king commies
no wonder you suck with all that snow all the time
you hate us for our freedoms
Madman Putin, invader of innocent Georgia


Just some of the "wisdom" you can find about Russia on the internet...

The credibility and veracity of these statements speak for themselves. Only fools will believe them. Problem for the world is there exists fools in sufficient numbers to support the ethic...

"Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.Ē
-George Bernard Shaw

Voodoo
26-08-2010, 17:46
I personally post on both sites, although much more frequently on Redtape rather than here. I enjoy the debates and as a Russian I don't take offence at genuine, healthy and constructuve criticism. I share a lot of the opinions about Russia and hope to never be so arrogant as to assume that we are above criticism. If somebody really goes OTT in blasting Russia well, that's simply their problem.

Expat has definitely taken a turn for the worse of late, with a lot of posters actually revelling in being nasty and rude. I really fail to see the point of that. If Zingo et al drive the 'debating' expats away (Yakspeare, Carbo, Gypsy, and about 10 others that I've counted) what will this site become? Just a poor version of Craigslist with people selling their used Ikea furnitire and posting about where to find peanut butter in Moscow.

Swordfish90293
26-08-2010, 17:47
One time, a few years back, somewhere in Moscow, I happened to find myself in a bathroom with a black African guy. Somehow a conversation was struck up. He asked me what I was doing in Moscow, and I told him teaching English. He laughed and said I worked for the CIA. I laughed and said nope ! But somehow it got stuck in his head that I was lying. Anyways, he started shouting that I was CIA and so I quickly left. He followed me around the cafe still shouting that I was CIA and that I was following him and trying to kill him.


So, I guess crazy happens !

Russia has a long history of spymania. For decades foreigners were suspect, and still this atmosphere of suspicion lingers. So being accused of being an agent is not unusual. It's akin to a cliche' national trait, like in the States saying all Japanese are smart, or all blacks are lazy.

ReallyGreatConcerts
26-08-2010, 18:00
Russia has a long history of spymania. For decades foreigners were suspect, and still this atmosphere of suspicion lingers. So being accused of being an agent is not unusual. It's akin to a cliche' national trait, like in the States saying all Japanese are smart, or all blacks are lazy.

England in Shakespeare's time regarded Russia as a madcap country of freaks and unnatural occurrences, where almost anything could believably happen. Webster, in THE WHITE DEVIL, suggests that breaking people's legs with heavy clubs in Russia was normal:

"What Sirrrah, are we in Russia? Nay, my shins must be kept whole!"

Giles Fletcher's OF YE RUSSE COMMONWEALTH (1591) - allegedly a scholarly work - describes Russia as "ďa Tyrannical state without true knowledge of GOD, without written Lawe, without common justiceĒ We also hear that the "Womenn are uncommon lascivious, and wanton in lust".

Voodoo
26-08-2010, 18:07
England in Shakespeare's time regarded Russia as a madcap country of freaks and unnatural occurrences, where almost anything could believably happen. Webster, in THE WHITE DEVIL, suggests that breaking people's legs with heavy clubs in Russia was normal:

"What Sirrrah, are we in Russia? Nay, my shins must be kept whole!"

Giles Fletcher's OF YE RUSSE COMMONWEALTH (1591) - allegedly a scholarly work - describes Russia as "ďa Tyrannical state without true knowledge of GOD, without written Lawe, without common justiceĒ We also hear that the "Womenn are uncommon lascivious, and wanton in lust".


How dare you post such evil nonsense about my great country! If you don't like it leave. Let me also remind you that the Great Satan America lynched niggers. You're obviously an arse bandit. Let me remind you what happened to another person who spread such lies - he was found with his own foot up his arse behind the Bolshoi. My address is the McDonald's on Pushkinskaya. You're obviously over paid and over sexed. I have proof you work for the North Korean Intelligence Service - you spy! I have friends in low places and will tell them about you - yes, we can track you through your IP address. Did I mention that you are gay? Well, you are.

Gypsy
26-08-2010, 18:21
England in Shakespeare's time regarded Russia as a madcap country of freaks and unnatural occurrences, where almost anything could believably happen. Webster, in THE WHITE DEVIL, suggests that breaking people's legs with heavy clubs in Russia was normal:

"What Sirrrah, are we in Russia? Nay, my shins must be kept whole!"

Giles Fletcher's OF YE RUSSE COMMONWEALTH (1591) - allegedly a scholarly work - describes Russia as "ďa Tyrannical state without true knowledge of GOD, without written Lawe, without common justiceĒ We also hear that the "Womenn are uncommon lascivious, and wanton in lust".
You don't have any names do you?

xSnoofovich
26-08-2010, 18:23
You don't have any names do you?

Names? We want phone numbers !!!

ReallyGreatConcerts
26-08-2010, 18:27
How dare you post such evil nonsense about my great country! If you don't like it leave. Let me also remind you that the Great Satan America lynched niggers. You're obviously an arse bandit. Let me remind you what happened to another person who spread such lies - he was found with his own foot up his arse behind the Bolshoi. My address is the McDonald's on Pushkinskaya. You're obviously over paid and over sexed. I have proof you work for the North Korean Intelligence Service - you spy! I have friends in low places and will tell them about you - yes, we can track you through your IP address. Did I mention that you are gay? Well, you are.


Ha! I see you are utterly ignorant about my activities selling State Secrets, taking photographs from the top of St Isaac's Cathedral in SPb for strategic purposes, making unauthorised sketch-maps of the one-way traffic system on Pervaya Brestskaya, and trading the information about how to turn left off Leningradka without going to the tramway bridge at Voikovskaya and turning around underneath it. And I have sold the recipe for greasy chebureka to a Japanese fast-food chain, ha-ha!

You will never take me alive!! (Especially since another member is already first in line to stab me in the kidneys with a knife, according to his email this morning. So you'll have to wait your turn).

xSnoofovich
26-08-2010, 18:29
And I have sold the recipe for greasy chebureka to a Japanese fast-food chain, ha-ha!



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Gypsy
26-08-2010, 18:32
The stupid thing about this is that Carbo is extremely pro Russian, came here without a job because he loved it - and Mrs Carbo too, who is Russian - and has to my knowledge never insulted Russia; not even once.

Shame that an intelligent poster who genuinely loves Russia and has much to offer expats is driven off the site by the hypocritical behaviour of one or two, who are prepared to simply lie in order to whip up their fake indignation on behalf of Russia.

It's expat.ru's loss. Shame.

ReallyGreatConcerts
26-08-2010, 18:57
Shame that an intelligent poster who genuinely loves Russia and has much to offer expats is driven off the site by the hypocritical behaviour of one or two, who are prepared to simply lie in order to whip up their fake indignation on behalf of Russia..

Let's be entirely fair here though :) Carbo enjoys playing the gadfly, and stirring-up a hornet's nest is part of his schtick. He's said himself that his visits to this site are motivated by the level of intense debate, often of troublesome or controversial topics. I admit that I often do likewise. I have clashed with Carbo sometimes, but it would be a very dull world if we all agreed about everything. Sometimes he has suffered from a perceived association with more extreme posters who have parroted his line, but gone too far with it either conceptually or verbally. Frankly I am not sorry to see those posters gone - they came here to troll, and now they've left.

But it is a pity to see genuine thoughtful members like Carbo go, who have made a real and substantive conribution to this community. I've had some intensely unpleaant email myself today from a little worm - but I am not leaving just yet! (Sorry to Tonko Wazz!)

Carbo
26-08-2010, 20:51
Gadfly! Love it, RGC.

That's exactly true. Still waiting for my account to be deleted -- and, indeed, the three posts by Carbonics on three separate folders here saying exactly the same thing -- so I thought I'd drop by to say thanks for your magnanimity and kind words.

Same goes for others who've had nice things to say.

Toodle pip.

Nobbynumbnuts
26-08-2010, 20:57
Ladies and chaps,

As some of you will be aware, my recent activity here has been characterized by often incendiary arguments with certain other members of the forum. While I actually come here specifically because the arguments are more knockabout than on the more genteel RedTape, I have been over the last several weeks threatened, either on the forum or by PM, on three separate occasions. I really couldnít care less about the insults, but the threats are more serious.

Today, most of you will notice that someone posting as Carbonics, which I assume is the latest moniker used by Guest/Zingo, is accusing me of working for the British intelligence services. Just before Zingo was banned, several of his posts carried similar accusations, and it was clear that he had convinced himself that I was somehow part of some MI6 activity to spread anti-Russia propaganda, and that these forums were one of the means by which I discharged this duty.

Most of you who know me will know how laughable that is, and I would laugh myself, if at some dark recess at the back of my mind I didnít worry that Russia isnít exactly free of (the probably justified, frankly) paranoia that this sort of thing is going on. God knows who's going to pick up on this kind of thing.

This, combined with the threats, has convinced me that things are getting rather too serious and that it is time to draw my time here to a close.

I wouldnít really mention anything about leaving -- I always think it looks conceited and frankly sad when people make such a fuss, and I suspect that people here will be split between those who couldnít give a toss that Iím going and those who will be ecstatic -- but I couldnít bring myself to go without defending myself against the insidious lies spread by one or two people here that I somehow hate Russia.

Actually, I love Russia and its people, but apparently, if you don't agree with everything the Russian government does and don't hate America, youíre a racist anti Russian. Rather than give you chapter and verse about my views, or try to justify myself any more, I will invite those who think Iím anti-Russia to read the following blog entries I wrote about 18 months ago strongly criticising the western pressí approach to covering Russia.

http://parallaxbrief.wordpress.com/2009/01/16/putin-and-the-cult-of-slothful-journalism/
http://parallaxbrief.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/time-for-a-better-understanding-of-russia-russian/

Ironically the opposition leader I was accused of colluding with, Boris Nemtsov, was also the subject of one of my entries, in which I basically said he was a terrible, no-hoper politician with bad policies that had no popularity here in Russia.

http://parallaxbrief.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/time-for-a-better-understanding-of-russia-russian/

Sadly, the experience I have of the posters who accuse me of anti-Russia bias makes me suspect that they will not bother reading them for fear that their preconceptions will be challenged.

Anyway, now that Iíve made my point, I shall, to the pleasure of many, leave.

Iíve sent a message to the moderators asking that my account be deleted altogether, so can anyone who wishes to contact me please do so via PM to Gypsy or MissAnnElk. I hope they wonít mind me using their names as proxies.

Why do you let the sh*t get to you?
I never understood it. It's the internet for chrissakes. Everyone is hiding behind an avatar so how can it become personal?
Don't give those that have upset you the pleasure of driving you away.

franzewich
26-08-2010, 21:53
Why do you let the sh*t get to you?
I never understood it. It's the internet for chrissakes. Everyone is hiding behind an avatar so how can it become personal?
Don't give those that have upset you the pleasure of driving you away.


Fully agree!

I hate to see you leave, Carbo - always enjoyed your contributions. But I understand your frustration! Maybe there is a way back, take a little break, catch a little breath. Most of us would be happy to see you back!

Rumors and slander are so hard to fight, I experienced this on this Forum, too. I also considered to quit for a while, although my troubles were personal, not political, and far less serious. But I decided to clench my teeth, swallow my pride and continue. I didn't regret.

Some guys and gals are simply weird and take an unfair pleasure in cornering others, while hiding in anonymity; cowardly bastards. Nothing you can do. Luckily there are friends who help out. ;)

Wish you all the best - hope you'll be back! :thumbsup:

tvadim133
26-08-2010, 22:21
The only thing I do not understand:

Someone insulted you, said s..t about you.

It is horrible.

This someone is not important for you (i mean his opinion and even his personnality) and for the majority of members, known to be ...let's say.. "strange".

It is his problem.

Why such kind of guys must be the reason for you to leave or to stay?

For example, you crazy neighbour (even 2-3 neighbours) on another floor even tells you, you are commi, spy and dirty...

So what?

Would you run to the kitchen to drink a bottle of vodka in tears being offended?

Would you even think about changing location ASAP (for example: to rent or to buy another apartment)?

Well, of course, it is your choice!

But for me all these posts of sick people (mental sickness or "soul" sickness) are nothing.

They need some treatment.

at sometimes they are just amusing with their crazy opinions and ideas......

xSnoofovich
26-08-2010, 22:41
well said tvadim !


The only thing I do not understand:

Someone insulted you, said s..t about you.

It is horrible.

This someone is not important for you (i mean his opinion and even his personnality) and for the majority of members, known to be ...let's say.. "strange".

It is his problem.

Why such kind of guys must be the reason for you to leave or to stay?

For example, you crazy neighbour (even 2-3 neighbours) on another floor even tells you, you are commi, spy and dirty...

So what?

Would you run to the kitchen to drink a bottle of vodka in tears being offended?

Would you even think about changing location ASAP (for example: to rent or to buy another apartment)?

Well, of course, it is your choice!

But for me all these posts of sick people (mental sickness or "soul" sickness) are nothing.

They need some treatment.

at sometimes they are just amusing with their crazy opinions and ideas......

alkaloids
26-08-2010, 22:48
I was intrigued by that blog you linked - The Parallax Brief, and thought that it had some insightful comments on a number of topics, though has clearly not been posted to in some time. I am interested in the ideas and impressions of Russia you have, and if you're leaving both this site and RedTape (which I had not previously heard of - I am new to Moscow and this site) then I must ask where you might be writing in the future...

Voodoo
26-08-2010, 23:26
I was intrigued by that blog you linked - The Parallax Brief, and thought that it had some insightful comments on a number of topics, though has clearly not been posted to in some time. I am interested in the ideas and impressions of Russia you have, and if you're leaving both this site and RedTape (which I had not previously heard of - I am new to Moscow and this site) then I must ask where you might be writing in the future...

He's not leaving redtape.ru so feel free to contact him there.

ezik
27-08-2010, 03:03
Carbo,

As told by PM to you, I'm not accepting you leaving because of threats or accusations.

Anyone can suggest you being a MI6 spook. Fact is: if you were and there was any evidence, this site simply would be off-air. The person accusing you of being a spy just has a hinge. He could call me a spy too! And, actually, being married to a journalist who has been publishing some VERY critical reports in the last 3 years, I'm sure that FSB has more mics in my appartment and more spyware on my computer that Guest/Zingo has on yours. ;-)

You are an eloquate person with opinions. So you write. Fine. Yes, it pisses off some people, which often means that you have written something that makes sense, as it touches a nerve. This doesn't mean you are MI6. You could be Sunday Times, Esquire or www.theonion.com. Mark my words: if FSB thought you would be trouble, they wouldn't seek the rather unimpressive medium of a PM over this website. You'd have "visitors", physically.

As per my PM, if you send me details about any threaths you had, they will be investigated and acted upon. If necessary, these threats will be reported to the police and we will provide, generously, all details we have about the person threatening you to the authorities. The same details will be passed to some private services that act on behalf of the ownership of this website.





Ladies and chaps,

As some of you will be aware, my recent activity here has been characterized by often incendiary arguments with certain other members of the forum. While I actually come here specifically because the arguments are more knockabout than on the more genteel RedTape, I have been over the last several weeks threatened, either on the forum or by PM, on three separate occasions. I really couldnít care less about the insults, but the threats are more serious.

Today, most of you will notice that someone posting as Carbonics, which I assume is the latest moniker used by Guest/Zingo, is accusing me of working for the British intelligence services. Just before Zingo was banned, several of his posts carried similar accusations, and it was clear that he had convinced himself that I was somehow part of some MI6 activity to spread anti-Russia propaganda, and that these forums were one of the means by which I discharged this duty.

Most of you who know me will know how laughable that is, and I would laugh myself, if at some dark recess at the back of my mind I didnít worry that Russia isnít exactly free of (the probably justified, frankly) paranoia that this sort of thing is going on. God knows who's going to pick up on this kind of thing.

This, combined with the threats, has convinced me that things are getting rather too serious and that it is time to draw my time here to a close.

I wouldnít really mention anything about leaving -- I always think it looks conceited and frankly sad when people make such a fuss, and I suspect that people here will be split between those who couldnít give a toss that Iím going and those who will be ecstatic -- but I couldnít bring myself to go without defending myself against the insidious lies spread by one or two people here that I somehow hate Russia.

Actually, I love Russia and its people, but apparently, if you don't agree with everything the Russian government does and don't hate America, youíre a racist anti Russian. Rather than give you chapter and verse about my views, or try to justify myself any more, I will invite those who think Iím anti-Russia to read the following blog entries I wrote about 18 months ago strongly criticising the western pressí approach to covering Russia.

http://parallaxbrief.wordpress.com/2009/01/16/putin-and-the-cult-of-slothful-journalism/
http://parallaxbrief.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/time-for-a-better-understanding-of-russia-russian/

Ironically the opposition leader I was accused of colluding with, Boris Nemtsov, was also the subject of one of my entries, in which I basically said he was a terrible, no-hoper politician with bad policies that had no popularity here in Russia.

http://parallaxbrief.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/time-for-a-better-understanding-of-russia-russian/

Sadly, the experience I have of the posters who accuse me of anti-Russia bias makes me suspect that they will not bother reading them for fear that their preconceptions will be challenged.

Anyway, now that Iíve made my point, I shall, to the pleasure of many, leave.

Iíve sent a message to the moderators asking that my account be deleted altogether, so can anyone who wishes to contact me please do so via PM to Gypsy or MissAnnElk. I hope they wonít mind me using their names as proxies.

ezik
27-08-2010, 03:05
As per my reply, your account is and will be active. It's up to you to use it or not.

2ndWind
27-08-2010, 03:15
As per my reply, your account is and will be active. It's up to you to use it or not.

Thank you Ezik. I have appreciated Carbo's postings and was very much hoping that something would happen so that we did not lose him.

Perhaps he will reconsider.

Rhubard Geoff
27-08-2010, 08:22
Carbo,

The same details will be passed to some private services that act on behalf of the ownership of this website.

:suspect:

Gypsy
27-08-2010, 09:18
Carbo,

As told by PM to you, I'm not accepting you leaving because of threats or accusations.

Anyone can suggest you being a MI6 spook. Fact is: if you were and there was any evidence, this site simply would be off-air. The person accusing you of being a spy just has a hinge. He could call me a spy too! And, actually, being married to a journalist who has been publishing some VERY critical reports in the last 3 years, I'm sure that FSB has more mics in my appartment and more spyware on my computer that Guest/Zingo has on yours. ;-)

You are an eloquate person with opinions. So you write. Fine. Yes, it pisses off some people, which often means that you have written something that makes sense, as it touches a nerve. This doesn't mean you are MI6. You could be Sunday Times, Esquire or www.theonion.com. Mark my words: if FSB thought you would be trouble, they wouldn't seek the rather unimpressive medium of a PM over this website. You'd have "visitors", physically.

As per my PM, if you send me details about any threaths you had, they will be investigated and acted upon. If necessary, these threats will be reported to the police and we will provide, generously, all details we have about the person threatening you to the authorities. The same details will be passed to some private services that act on behalf of the ownership of this website.
Post Of The Week IMO.

Thank you.

And Carbo - the previous time Guest threatened me, expat.ru did do as Ezik says above, and after some investigation it was left to me to decide whether to proceed, I chose not to on the "life is too short" principle. Just to say his offer is genuine, they will pursue it if you choose.

Swordfish90293
27-08-2010, 13:05
That's right Carbo...translate Ezik's post to say 'don't be so thin skinned...'

TolkoRaz
27-08-2010, 13:31
Carbo's departure from this site is a MASSIVE loss. He was always a proper gent and added much value to any thread he chose to delve into.

I trust that during a moment of reflection he will reconsider his decision and will return. I can't honestly believe that somebody with Carbo's intellect and passion for debating could be 'bullied' into leaving because of a few unruly and unbalanced individuals.

Come on Carbo, you are better than that! :) Come back to the fold! :)

Willy
27-08-2010, 14:31
Carbo's departure from this site is a MASSIVE loss. He was always a proper gent and added much value to any thread he chose to delve into.

I trust that during a moment of reflection he will reconsider his decision and will return. I can't honestly believe that somebody with Carbo's intellect and passion for debating could be 'bullied' into leaving because of a few unruly and unbalanced individuals.

Come on Carbo, you are better than that! :) Come back to the fold! :)



If you like arrogant people, yeah Carbo was great at that. But a passion for arguing? When someone has to question your intelligence at the beginning of every post I would say is not debating but looking for a fight. Just most times Carbo wanted a girlie fight with a lot of light slapping going on instead of a manly all out brawl. I could question Carbo's intellect too just for the fact that he was unable to stay out petty fights and finally done in by someone he thinks of as less intelligent. Idiots rule even if you like it your not.

I also like how Carbo had to first say he was going back to redtape because it's more genteel, maybe so but there's no shortage of arrogance over there and they shout you down, it's just the shouting is not so loud. He could even find that he is bringing redtape more trouble if zingo decides to follow, because these forums can't keep people out, they can only throw them out once there. He also endangers all that may go to a bar with him by making himself a target for hate. I had a friend back home you couldn't walk down the street with because all the time people were jumping out of cars and trying to beat him. Nobody wants to hang around with someone like that.

You sound sad you lost your ring leader. Don't worry because if Carbo doesn't come back someone just like him will. We like to think we are all so important and that's just what Carbo's post shows. He really thinks that of himself. We all go some time and there is always someone to come along and take our place. That's just life, get used to it, you to will die someday so why waste your time crying or harassing people on the internet? There is more than trying to prove yourself to others, it's trying to prove it to yourself. It's just as easy to make yourself happy as it is to make yourself mad. It's your choice which one you want, but don't expect it from others, it's not their job. It's you and you alone that makes your world.

dontcallme
27-08-2010, 14:49
If you like arrogant people, yeah Carbo was great at that. But a passion for arguing? When someone has to question your intelligence at the beginning of every post I would say is not debating but looking for a fight. Just most times Carbo wanted a girlie fight with a lot of light slapping going on instead of a manly all out brawl. I could question Carbo's intellect too just for the fact that he was unable to stay out petty fights and finally done in by someone he thinks of as less intelligent. Idiots rule even if you like it your not.

I also like how Carbo had to first say he was going back to redtape because it's more genteel, maybe so but there's no shortage of arrogance over there and they shout you down, it's just the shouting is not so loud. He could even find that he is bringing redtape more trouble if zingo decides to follow, because these forums can't keep people out, they can only throw them out once there. He also endangers all that may go to a bar with him by making himself a target for hate. I had a friend back home you couldn't walk down the street with because all the time people were jumping out of cars and trying to beat him. Nobody wants to hang around with someone like that.

You sound sad you lost your ring leader. Don't worry because if Carbo doesn't come back someone just like him will. We like to think we are all so important and that's just what Carbo's post shows. He really thinks that of himself. We all go some time and there is always someone to come along and take our place. That's just life, get used to it, you to will die someday so why waste your time crying or harassing people on the internet? There is more than trying to prove yourself to others, it's trying to prove it to yourself. It's just as easy to make yourself happy as it is to make yourself mad. It's your choice which one you want, but don't expect it from others, it's not their job. It's you and you alone that makes your world.

You, Zingo and his aliases are the only ones accusing him of being arrogant and anti-Russian. Like in debate I guess you are unable to find any evidence of this. If you'd like to quote some of Carbo's anti-Russian posts then we'd all appreciate it as the rest of us don't seem to have any knowledge of this.

Voodoo
27-08-2010, 14:52
You, Zingo and his aliases are the only ones accusing him of being arrogant and anti-Russian. Like in debate I guess you are unable to find any evidence of this. If you'd like to quote some of Carbo's anti-Russian posts then we'd all appreciate it as the rest of us don't seem to have any knowledge of this.

I have to agree. I never found either Gypsy or Carbs to be 'anti-Russian'. They always had well reasoned and logical arguments. And if they had any criticism it was always constructive.

TolkoRaz
27-08-2010, 14:53
And Willy, don't bother posting a YouTube video.

If you can find anything which confirms that Carbo is anti-Russian, please post the 'real thing' so we can all read what you and your mates keep wittering on about.

Thank You!

Willy
27-08-2010, 14:55
You, Zingo and his aliases are the only ones accusing him of being arrogant and anti-Russian. Like in debate I guess you are unable to find any evidence of this. If you'd like to quote some of Carbo's anti-Russian posts then we'd all appreciate it as the rest of us don't seem to have any knowledge of this.



All zingo has to do is read Carbo and be upset.


In this post I didn't say that, I just said he was arrogant.

Can I change my mind or do I have to keep believing something?


I find it better to grow than to stagnate.

Willy
27-08-2010, 15:00
I have to agree. I never found either Gypsy or Carbs to be 'anti-Russian'. They always had well reasoned and logical arguments. And if they had any criticism it was always constructive.




Your entitled to your opinion can zingo be entitled to his.

I think zingo would say your anti-Russian too.


As for people that aren't Russian don't tell Russians how to feel.

You think I'm anti-American and I'm not.


As far as Gypsy goes I don't see why he has the right to tell people what to do, who died and left him boss. He's a whiny little old man.

Rhubard Geoff
27-08-2010, 15:07
Your entitled to your opinion can zingo be entitled to his.

I think zingo would say your anti-Russian too.


As for people that aren't Russian don't tell Russians how to feel.

You think I'm anti-American and I'm not.


As far as Gypsy goes I don't see why he has the right to tell people what to do, who died and left him boss. He's a whiny little old man.

But Voodoo IS Russian.

yakspeare
27-08-2010, 15:19
Willy it is the likes of you who have chased so many from the forum..some go to redtape but others just leave the forums altogether.

You are a horrid vengeful person full of anger and hate and you and your ilk have destroyed the fun of this forum.

this is a place for EXPATS and people FRIENDLY to EXPATS to meet and discuss life in russia and other things. It is not a soap box of anti-western propaganda and conspiracy theories about how America will take over the world etc.

Your constant implications to Carbo's real life and that "people like him" would like be assaulted etc is nothing more than a veiled threat as well as posting your address and pictures of yourself...FFS PEOPLE WHERE ARE THE MODS!

Even your supposed apology was totally insincere and then used as a weapon when Carbo etc have nothing to apologise for...if you talk about intelligence and idiocy i should point out it is you who claim you have 31 years in America and yet the russians on this forum have considerably more literacy skill than you. You cannot answer simple questions, and you certainly can't follow simple logic, even when we try and make it easier for you. this is quite normal when trying to explain to non-native speakers(as they would also do the same for us to assist) but inexcusable for a supposed "native" speaker of English like you claim to be.

It is you who is racist, it is you who makes russia look bad....God help new comers to this forum who have to see your filth and rants and gloating about how many girlfriends you have while your wife is pregnant etc.

I came back to not surrender this forum to the likes of you, but i see far more people have left than just Carbo...your antics on the redtape forum were equally stupid, Mr bigot.

TolkoRaz
27-08-2010, 15:26
Willy it is the likes of you who have chased so many from the forum..some go to redtape but others just leave the forums altogether.

You are a horrid vengeful person full of anger and hate and you and your ilk have destroyed the fun of this forum.


Well written; I second that :respect:

Willy
27-08-2010, 15:32
But Voodoo IS Russian.




Where did I say he wasn't?

I know that and I know he has a British passport too.

Willy
27-08-2010, 15:34
Well written; I second that :respect:



Thanks for quoting him.


I guess it's time to take him off the ignore list and put you back on.

TolkoRaz
27-08-2010, 15:47
Feel free Willy! As it happens, I'd much prefer that you don't submit your usual idiotic replies to any of my posts. :coffee:

In advance, thank you for your co-operation with this matter! :)

Rhubard Geoff
27-08-2010, 15:54
Where did I say he wasn't?

I know that and I know he has a British passport too.

In answer to his post you said

think zingo would say your anti-Russian too.


As for people that aren't Russian don't tell Russians how to feel.

I just thought it was odd that someone could tell a Russian not to be anti Russian

Gypsy
27-08-2010, 16:12
As far as Gypsy goes I don't see why he has the right to tell people what to do, who died and left him boss. He's a whiny little old man.
First, for the person with your record of arrogance to criticise someone else is very rich indeed. How many times over the last 4 weeks have you told me what to do?

How many insults have you thrown at me? With the one above, forty? More?

And I have asked you before to show me any post where I have told anyone what to do. You have always failed to do so. Again, it is you inventing something, then accusing someone else of saying it when it only existed inside your head.

Carbo is not arrogant; he does have a very direct prose style, but that is a very different thing, and he does state his opinions unequivocally, and that is no bad thing.

But the clincher is that if you prove him wrong, he changes his mind, and admits he is wrong.

The arrogant tell people what to do, what to say, and refuse to support their contentions with argument instead relying on insult and empty rhetoric.

Willy
27-08-2010, 21:38
In answer to his post you said

think zingo would say your anti-Russian too.


As for people that aren't Russian don't tell Russians how to feel.

I just thought it was odd that someone could tell a Russian not to be anti Russian



I'm sorry but that not what I meant.

I meant it as Zingo thinks Carbo is anti Russian he would think that Voodoo is also.

Voodoo can say and think what he wants, it's not for me to tell him how he should think about his own country but he's got a British passport so he doesn't have to stay here. He could leave at anytime but for some reason he doesn't. So I assume he likes it here.


What I think is funny is that Brits and Aussies tell me how I should think about America.

Willy
27-08-2010, 21:41
Why is there no Americans giving me crap here? Can one please join in the Willy massacre!

objective
27-08-2010, 21:48
Carbo,
I regret that we have not had the opportunity to communicate directly...
Posts of yours that I have read, I always felt presented significant insights.
Perhaps I have not always been 100% in agreement with views you may have expressed... but hey! that's okay! good in fact, to develop the widest possible perspective!
I will say Thanks!! talk with you later!!

objective
27-08-2010, 22:17
Why is there no Americans giving me crap here? Can one please join in the Willy massacre!

Oh no Willy, cannot join in the 'massacre'... no benefit from it.
Besides, I think you're cool, I enjoy reading your opinions.
Whether or not I agree... is mainly irrelevant!

Voodoo
27-08-2010, 23:03
Voodoo .....but he's got a British passport

Yes, yes, yes. You've mentioned my passports several times already. And your point is what exactly?

Willy
27-08-2010, 23:42
Willy it is the likes of you who have chased so many from the forum..some go to redtape but others just leave the forums altogether.

You are a horrid vengeful person full of anger and hate and you and your ilk have destroyed the fun of this forum.

this is a place for EXPATS and people FRIENDLY to EXPATS to meet and discuss life in russia and other things. It is not a soap box of anti-western propaganda and conspiracy theories about how America will take over the world etc.

Your constant implications to Carbo's real life and that "people like him" would like be assaulted etc is nothing more than a veiled threat as well as posting your address and pictures of yourself...FFS PEOPLE WHERE ARE THE MODS!

Even your supposed apology was totally insincere and then used as a weapon when Carbo etc have nothing to apologise for...if you talk about intelligence and idiocy i should point out it is you who claim you have 31 years in America and yet the russians on this forum have considerably more literacy skill than you. You cannot answer simple questions, and you certainly can't follow simple logic, even when we try and make it easier for you. this is quite normal when trying to explain to non-native speakers(as they would also do the same for us to assist) but inexcusable for a supposed "native" speaker of English like you claim to be.

It is you who is racist, it is you who makes russia look bad....God help new comers to this forum who have to see your filth and rants and gloating about how many girlfriends you have while your wife is pregnant etc.

I came back to not surrender this forum to the likes of you, but i see far more people have left than just Carbo...your antics on the redtape forum were equally stupid, Mr bigot.



Gee I'm glad you told me what this forum is for Yak. I always though it was for expats and English speaking Russian. I didn't know they had to be friendly. Is that up to you to decide? Who is friendly and who is not.

I really wonder if you were paranoid your whole life your you just got paranoid living in Russia. It happen to expats living here.

I'll try to explain one more time to you. I posted my address because I don't hide from people and I am not paranoid. If someone has a big problem with what I write here, come on over the house and we can talk about it. That all Yak nothing more. People like to say I'm hiding behind this keyboard, but I'm not and don't try to read anything else into it. I won't hurt you, anyway your a big fire fighting secret spy, what could I do to you?


My apology was sincere at the time and I truly wanted all this to end and I did think it would have been nice of Carbo and Gypsy to offer one back. I'm not the only one who thought so. http://www.expat.ru/forum/showpost.php?p=717240&postcount=7
I thought it would be good manners to apologize back to someone. Maybe it not in England I don't know. what I got was Gypsy and TolkRaz still following me around trying to pester me, I know you think that's class but I didn't think it was so nice after I tried to end all this. And I'm sure now I will have to put up with it from you and them because I have a view of life that you don't agree with.

The being a native speaker I won't even touch, there you are just trying to insult. Not that this whole post of yours is not trying to do that.

I don't see how I could make Russia look bad as I am not Russian, I could make America look bad, but Russia no.

I'm sorry you don't like my way of life and feel a need to judge me and my relationship with my wife. My wife doesn't mind and when she does that's when I will start to worry about it. But some how I know we will be together until the day I die. Maybe because she knows what I do and we have our own space. Why don't you worry about your wife and let me worry about mine, okay?


I'm glad you brought up redtape.

Gypsy thought it was okay for him to go there and talk about me behind my back. I think that's very cowardly but that's Gypsy for you. I really like how he said I was thrown off redtape for talking about sex with underage girls. Shows Gypsy has a lot of class right? And he'll say he never insulted me? No he did and he won't ever admit it because he's a coward. I understand know why his wife would leave him it's just to bad he never understood, because he goes around here acting the same way.

If you think that people on this forum will be happy that you've come here to save the forum from the likes of me, I don't really think that's a wise thing to do.

Gypsy and TolkRaz looked pretty bad trying to keep things going after I said I was sorry and tried to cool things down, but Gypsy kept following me and trying to push me over and over. Trying to stop any post he didn't like. You and him have a problem and it's not with me. You will always find someone or something to get angry about believe me. This will go on and on, if not with me then someone else. Because that's just the way you two are.

Nobbynumbnuts
28-08-2010, 00:14
Who gives a sh*t. Get over it!

ReallyGreatConcerts
28-08-2010, 00:20
Who gives a sh*t. Get over it!

:10806:

Willy
28-08-2010, 02:00
Ah, the British.

Nobbynumbnuts
28-08-2010, 02:34
Ah, the British.

Please explain how someone can get upset when you're arguing with an avatar and login name and you're looking at a computer screen?
Is that a British thing?

ezik
28-08-2010, 04:09
LOL, I have received a "warning" by a new user, whose "contributions" in this thread were deleted by a colleague. Cryptic stuff, hinting about me being in RU for a long time and playing with fire, while defending an MI6 spy! Quite hilarious.

As the person as been banned, I looked up his email address and sent him a message. It wasn't very friendly, yet polite and clear.

I won't accept Carbo leaving because of someone threathening him. If Carbo leaves because he doesn't like the site, that's ok, it's his decision. But if it is because of a nutter sending nasty emails or PMs, there is no mercy for the person trying to push him out.

Carbo's posts and blogs may not appeal to everyone of us, but he uses freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech is a fundamental right. Also in Russian legislation. Carbo can post whatever he likes, and so can anyone who reads this. We have legal boundaries, yes, but these become relevant ONLY if you post extremist stuff. I don't think Carbo ever did.

Vovochka
28-08-2010, 04:47
I won't accept Carbo leaving because of someone threathening him. If Carbo leaves because he doesn't like the site, that's ok, it's his decision. But if it is because of a nutter sending nasty emails or PMs, there is no mercy for the person trying to push him out..

If a person asks to have his or her account deleted, then delete it. What's the problem? To deny this seems to sort of refusal to accept to accept reality.

Gypsy
28-08-2010, 05:21
I understand know why his wife would leave him it's just to bad he never understood, because he goes around here acting the same way. Most of the lies and insults you post are water off a duck's back and I haven't bothered responding to most of them but this is despicable. As people here well know my wife did not leave me, and why you would choose to peddle such filth I cannot understand, but it does demonstrate your dishonesty to everyone. Again.



Gypsy and TolkRaz looked pretty bad trying to keep things going after I said I was sorry and tried to cool things down, but Gypsy kept following me and trying to push me over and over. Trying to stop any post he didn't like. You and him have a problem and it's not with me. You will always find someone or something to get angry about believe me. This will go on and on, if not with me then someone else. Because that's just the way you two are.
What a pity that the facts disagree with you - again. Check out the posts and the timings of them and anyone can see that I responded to your apology by thanking you for it. I meant that too. And I made no further comments about you until after you started insulting me again in that same thread. I'd happily post the sequence of posts which prove that but you are not worth it and any members who are interested - none would be my guess - can see that for themselves and see that again you are lying.

Yes, I did insult you in a thread in another place, and as you chose to post it here I do not need to repeat it. That is the only time I have insulted you - I still have not here, and won't despite your quite vile lies above.

You use the victims of 911 as a shield to hide behind in your 911 thread and now try to use my wife's accident to insult me. How low can anyone stoop?. In fact I understand, as you put it, very well, I was left with 3 young teenage children to bring up alone, 2 now with Masters Degrees and another starting university next year. What I understand is responsibility and honesty. I understand that my wife loved me - I know because the last words she said before her accident were "I love you". Many men would have left their wives to be cared for in an institution, and no one would blame them - I didn't. Your comment really is vile and despicable. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

MickeyTong
28-08-2010, 05:35
To deny this seems to sort of refusal to accept to accept reality.

Reality must always be accepted accepted.

Gypsy
28-08-2010, 05:57
Reality must always be accepted accepted.

Except that you should accept that to accept the accepted reality accepts a reality not always accepted.

I think......................or not.

yakspeare
28-08-2010, 07:12
willy talking behind your back? oh please....why on earth would you even be on redtape...since you hate ti so much i can only think you were stalking the people there.

Ezik i totally disagree with you. it is a fundamental right that you can remove yourself from any online application, subscription or anything else and i am pretty sure not being able to is breaking the law at least in some countries.

Please respect the wishes of those who desire to leave and wish that their accounts be deleted....if it is somehow not possible than enact a ban on his account.

Matt24
28-08-2010, 09:40
Reality must always be accepted accepted.

Accept under acceptional circumstances when acceptions to the accepted norms may be acceptable.

Gypsy
28-08-2010, 10:35
Accept under acceptional circumstances when acceptions to the accepted norms may be acceptable.

Accepting that acceptance under acceptional circumstances when acceptions to the accepted norms may be acceptable is itself acceptable, accepted.

Willy
28-08-2010, 12:08
Most of the lies and insults you post are water off a duck's back and I haven't bothered responding to most of them but this is despicable. As people here well know my wife did not leave me, and why you would choose to peddle such filth I cannot understand, but it does demonstrate your dishonesty to everyone. Again.


What a pity that the facts disagree with you - again. Check out the posts and the timings of them and anyone can see that I responded to your apology by thanking you for it. I meant that too. And I made no further comments about you until after you started insulting me again in that same thread. I'd happily post the sequence of posts which prove that but you are not worth it and any members who are interested - none would be my guess - can see that for themselves and see that again you are lying.

Yes, I did insult you in a thread in another place, and as you chose to post it here I do not need to repeat it. That is the only time I have insulted you - I still have not here, and won't despite your quite vile lies above.

You use the victims of 911 as a shield to hide behind in your 911 thread and now try to use my wife's accident to insult me. How low can anyone stoop?. In fact I understand, as you put it, very well, I was left with 3 young teenage children to bring up alone, 2 now with Masters Degrees and another starting university next year. What I understand is responsibility and honesty. I understand that my wife loved me - I know because the last words she said before her accident were "I love you". Many men would have left their wives to be cared for in an institution, and no one would blame them - I didn't. Your comment really is vile and despicable. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.



Yeah I know it's your mission harass and make me look bad because you want to control thought on this forum. I got that little bit of info from redtape where you wrote about your wife and why she left you. Why is it you always try to back out of everything and never admit when you are wrong or have done something bad. Insecurity and inflated ego I would say. You say I stoop but you write things on a forum you thought I could never see or reply to, cowardly that's all. You push and harass people then call your friends for help. Your a bully and like most bullies you are a whimp. You like to make people think your some cool business man too but you sit on this forum all day long writing in every thread and chasing people around, when do you do any work? It's really bad that you and your redtape buddies have nothing better to do than to come here say bad things about this forum and try to make it just like there. The reason not many people stay there is because of the arrogant tone, the little sly insults that these people use to make themselves feel better about their lonely, crappy, petty, little lives. And you want to bring that here? What you want this place to fail like redtape? Your all at each other now because you have nothing better to do. Expat.ru did have people coming here and saying how friendly and helpful this place was but not since the first time Carbo went running away in a huff and you and a bunch of redtapers came to tell us all how great it is there. Like we didn't know what they do there, all that have left here came back after a short time if you haven't noticed just Carbo brought their writing style with him, which is the reason people do stay there. Won't you people figure that out? It's not because whoever named that place didn't have any imagination or knowledge of how internet searches work (and they didn't) it's because that place is boring and not funny. You may think it's funny to take jabs at people but most normal people don't. If you took everyone that is accepted from this site that post on redtape and had them leave you would be left with a handful of bitter, paranoid, social misfits that whine all the time.


So Gypsy,


YouTube- eric clapton - before you accuse me

Willy
28-08-2010, 12:32
[Quote deleted, poster banned. Love, MAE]



That's right, but when someone becomes too abusive what to do? I see it was some people that turned those people into abusers with harassment however slight it may have been but they did it. Then they whine when attack for this. They did it to themselves.

If someone is banned there should be a ban on talking about them too, because they can no longer defend themselves and may cause them to take other actions.

This forum seems be getting taken over by a gang of British vigilantes for the sole purpose to control thought and make it more comfortable for them and them alone. I call them the Gang of four or the London Boys Quire. Because cause if there is something written they don't like you get a four responding in chorus. Shouting you down and trying to drown you out. No free speech here any more. Fighting and people trying to degrade each other because they have different opinions.

Thanks Gypsy and friends we were getting along just fine until you came along and wanted to start some war.

Willy
28-08-2010, 12:35
Please explain how someone can get upset when you're arguing with an avatar and login name and you're looking at a computer screen?
Is that a British thing?




Because you know someone is sitting there doing this intentionally.

Is that what you think that these words are not coming for humans?

yakspeare
28-08-2010, 13:18
Willy,

thank you for describing yourself so eloquently:

Yeah I know it's your mission harass and make me look bad because you want to control thought on this forum. Why is it you always try to back out of everything and never admit when you are wrong or have done something bad. Insecurity and inflated ego I would say. You say I stoop but you write things on a forum you thought I could never see or reply to, cowardly that's all. You push and harass people then call your friends for help. Your a bully and like most bullies you are a whimp.

Kettle: Pot this is Kettle How do you hear me? Over.
Pot: loud and clear. Over.

Gypsy
28-08-2010, 14:12
Because you know someone is sitting there doing this intentionally.

Is that what you think that these words are not coming for humans?
First the facts - you began insulting me, I have yet to do so on this forum, but I will in just a second.

You have followed me around this forum insulting me in threads where I have not addressed a single post or remark to you- The Joke thread yesterday is a good example.

You insult me in threads where I have not made a single post.

How dare you use the word human to describe yourself. You are the lowest form of scum I can imagine, and I have a pretty broad imagination.

To use my wife's accident as an insult is beyond low - even for you. You are the vilest most despicable excuse for a human being I have ever come across; but even now I would not wish what happened to my family on you, because I do have some humanity.

You are a pathetic, sanctimonious, arrogant, ignorant, hypocritical excuse for a man. Take a look in the mirror before you accuse others.

Now - you have been insulted.

ReallyGreatConcerts
28-08-2010, 14:25
Long overdue that this thread was locked.

pjw
28-08-2010, 14:37
:9437: Wanna close Carbo's farewell thread? RGC you can be so heartless at times.

Knowing U to be a fond appreciater of the arts, I'd've thought you'd've enjoyed the elements of tragedy, drama and narcism, a bit like Tristan and Isolde walking into the waves....

Matt24
28-08-2010, 15:03
:9437: Wanna close Carbo's farewell thread? RGC you can be so heartless at times.

Knowing U to be a fond appreciater of the arts, I'd've thought you'd've enjoyed the elements of tragedy, drama and narcism, a bit like Tristan and Isolde walking into the waves....

Marvellously perceptive post, however I find the comedy element the most compelling element of this soap - following your lead can I submit the following as a possible theme tune for 'Expatenders'

YouTube- Steps - Tragedy

Willy
28-08-2010, 15:07
I don't understand Gypsy why you use the Joke thread?


I said I agreed with the girl that the jokes weren't that funny and you quoted me with a hi-light of a typo I made and wrote GROAN!

Are you trying to help me prove you follow me and keep picking at every little petty thing? Because that what it shows.

http://www.expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?p=721616#post721616


You didn't like the virtual kick in the balls I gave you for writing that I had sex with underage girls did you?


Time to be man Gypsy and stop all your whinny baby antics.

Willy
28-08-2010, 15:33
:9437: Wanna close Carbo's farewell thread? RGC you can be so heartless at times.

Knowing U to be a fond appreciater of the arts, I'd've thought you'd've enjoyed the elements of tragedy, drama and narcism, a bit like Tristan and Isolde walking into the waves....



Yeah you would think he knows something about entertainment.



I'm just wondering how I can fit in some ads to put some $$$$ in Willy's pocket?



Hey I got it!


Thanks for sale!

That's right now you can buy thanks for anyone of your lame, stupid post and look like a somebody! Just think of the respect you'll get when all those hot young women see your Thanks count! Impress your friend with a large Thanks numbers! And you know any old Thanks won't do! You need Willy Thanks! So only buy Willy Inc. brand Thanks the Thanks show your somebody!

For a limited time only, buy two Willy Inc. Thanks and get the third one FREE!!!!


Please PM for details

Some restrictions apply and may not be available in your area.


Willy Thanks we're in the business of thanking people

Nobbynumbnuts
28-08-2010, 16:06
Because you know someone is sitting there doing this intentionally.

Is that what you think that these words are not coming for humans?

Willy, you smell! :neiner:

Now please explain to me how exactly it is you (or anyone else) can find that kind of thing upsetting.

Willy
28-08-2010, 16:16
Willy, you smell! :neiner:

Now please explain to me how exactly it is you (or anyone else) can find that kind of thing upsetting.



well when you look at it from what the people writing it's sad they don't have a life and want to upset someone because they are unhappy.


It's just not nice to read and creates a bad atmosphere .

Reading people on redtape makes me feel bad that there are people like that in this world and they actually think they're cool.

It's not cool to put people down and make fun of them. It's shows how bad they feel about themselves and how hopeless their life is.


This is the real world where people can meet and often go to the same places. You just don't understand being so far away maybe. When you going to come to Moscow?

tvadim133
28-08-2010, 16:34
Reading people on redtape makes me feel bad that there are people like that in this world and they actually think they're cool.


So why d'you still read redtape?

Miss it?

Nobbynumbnuts
28-08-2010, 16:58
well when you look at it from what the people writing it's sad they don't have a life and want to upset someone because they are unhappy.


It's just not nice to read and creates a bad atmosphere .

Reading people on redtape makes me feel bad that there are people like that in this world and they actually think they're cool.

It's not cool to put people down and make fun of them. It's shows how bad they feel about themselves and how hopeless their life is.


This is the real world where people can meet and often go to the same places. You just don't understand being so far away maybe. When you going to come to Moscow?

If it's so sad, why respond to it?
This is the real world? Willy, i worry about you.

Willy
28-08-2010, 17:23
So why d'you still read redtape?

Miss it?



I went there because I knew that Carbo would go and talk about it there. It's like their little hiding place but more like when you hide behind a curtain and your feet stick out the bottom.

Willy
28-08-2010, 17:27
If it's so sad, why respond to it?
This is the real world? Willy, i worry about you.




Just so it may stop some day. It wasn't always like this.



That and life is all a big stage!


This site is for entertainment, look at the threads I'm in you can see more views than some others. I am a jester.


This thread is just a soap opera.

pjw
28-08-2010, 17:42
This thread is just a soap opera.No, it is NOT a soap opera. It is serious and should be taken with the seriousness it deserves. We are talking about a person here and a human with feelings. People have treated Carbo badly, without dignity, making him turn his back on the community, making him feel unwanted and small, "the misunderstood man". I see cruelty here and I hear laughter.:redcard:

I don't want to put him in the dustbin like a cat. I don't understand him, nor do I particularly like what he writes, but in a democracy, as we have, everyone has the right to write what they like, as they please. To accept him, which I don't, would be one thing, but I just don't think he should be allowed to leave and we have a responsibility to prevent this.

Willy
28-08-2010, 18:04
No, it is NOT a soap opera. It is serious and should be taken with the seriousness it deserves. We are talking about a person here and a human with feelings. People have treated Carbo badly, without dignity, making him turn his back on the community, making him feel unwanted and small, "the misunderstood man". I see cruelty here and I hear laughter.:redcard:

I don't want to put him in the dustbin like a cat. I don't understand him, nor do I particularly like what he writes, but in a democracy, as we have, everyone has the right to write what they like, as they please. To accept him, which I don't, would be one thing, but I just don't think he should be allowed to leave and we have a responsibility to prevent this.



You like soap operas pj I can tell. Don't worry this one is not over. I'm sure Gypsy will come back and blabber some more.

About Carbo well we can't really make him come back. But if he did I think he'd feel a little shy about what he's done. You know running off and leaving us with nothing to laugh about and ridicule. I guess we still have Gypsy and don't forget about Yak and TolkoRaz. Where would we be if all of them left? Joke less that's where.


Hey you want to buy some thanks?

Bels will never be able to say your not a real member after I thank the sh!t out of your post.

MissAnnElk
28-08-2010, 21:53
The whole thing.

If I were a newbie to this site, I'd be so put off by all this nastiness that I would never, EVER dare posting here. Acting like one person's expat experience is less valid than anothers. That takes a hell of a lot of nerve.

I don't live in Moscow any more, but I still check in from time to time. And you know what I find here? No fun, that's for sure. Just petty bickering and out-and-out lunacy. Like the heat or the smoke has gotten to you. Knock it off. I know a lot of you. You are nice people face-to-face. What the hell happens to you when you sit down at your keyboards? Just because this is the Internet, you think that releases you of any need for human decency? Is this fun for you? because it sure looks f**ked up to me.

My kids are better behaved than this.

As mods, we tend not to censor much because we don't believe in that. We feel a little debate makes for lively reading, and we all believe that expats need a safe place to vent from time to time.

But there's venting and then there's vitriol. The tone and mood here lately. Ugh. It is unpleasant. It makes me not want to hang out here anymore.

dontcallme
28-08-2010, 22:03
The whole thing.

If I were a newbie to this site, I'd be so put off by all this nastiness that I would never, EVER dare posting here. Acting like one person's expat experience is less valid than anothers. That takes a hell of a lot of nerve.

I don't live in Moscow any more, but I still check in from time to time. And you know what I find here? No fun, that's for sure. Just petty bickering and out-and-out lunacy. Like the heat or the smoke has gotten to you. Knock it off. I know a lot of you. You are nice people face-to-face. What the hell happens to you when you sit down at your keyboards? Just because this is the Internet, you think that releases you of any need for human decency? Is this fun for you? because it sure looks f**ked up to me.

My kids are better behaved than this.

As mods, we tend not to censor much because we don't believe in that. We feel a little debate makes for lively reading, and we all believe that expats need a safe place to vent from time to time.

But there's venting and then there's vitriol. The tone and mood here lately. Ugh. It is unpleasant. It makes me not want to hang out here anymore.

I agree. I think it's important for Mods to not get too involved but there's a line and if the website is taking on a bad turn then unfortunately the Mods need to investigate and put things right.

A couple of new members have mentionned recently the atmosphere on the site being really bad and things need to change.

I think a few members need a talking to by PM by the Mods and told to start acting more decently or find another site. It unfortunately is getting to that level of unpleasantness here.

Willy
28-08-2010, 23:36
Here is where all this started I think.

http://www.expat.ru/forum/showpost.php?p=691061&postcount=24

This brought Gypsy back and of coarse he had to say that redtape is better and only people on expat say bad things about redtape they never talk about us, but this thread was started because the same thread was started first on redtape then copied here.

http://www.expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=225752&page=2


Then comes more people from redtape to say what they don't like about expat.

Here is where Carbo jumps in and starts the beginning of his first "I'm leaving" bit. by saying "What a lot of jealous, sour little Miss Haveshams there are on this forum"
http://www.expat.ru/forum/showpost.php?p=691342&postcount=44

Then goes on to say "However, the downside of that is that many of the Russians here, Iím sad to say, can be very testy: ready to dive down your throat at the slightest suspicion of an insult to the Rodina"

He goes on and you can read it. It just shows to me that Carbo hasn't learned how to act in Russia. You don't go into someones home and start to criticize them. Maybe you can do that in Britain but it not polite here to tell anybody how they should do things, that's just how it is. Now people will say "but they say about things about America" yes they do that here but I see it as Russians are just trying to learn about a place they may have not been and may not really understand. I think it would be better if Americans could be a little more calm instead for the normal "well Russia does" and a fight starts. If Americans really think they are better why do they need to put Russia down while living here? Don't they understand Russians yet? They see them everyday. Or is it they don't want to? Don't feel a need to show some respect to their host, and that's just what Americans are here Guest! We have no right to be here, Russians don't have to let anyone live and work here. It may be true for America but this is not America and some seem to forget that.

So if you look back you can see that Gypsy has brought this with him and his trouble starts with his fight with Guest. Because it was Gypsy that got Guest banned from here by fighting with his harassment of Guest that pushed Guest to a point anger. I think Gypsy has shown he hasn't changed if you look at how he has acted over the last month or so. He will never shy away from a fight on a forum. He even came back here just to tell us how bad expat is and how much better redtape is. He came back to fight and that is almost all he's done since.

I remember too how when bels was acting up and people here jumping on him people from redtape just had to come in and get in on the bels bashing. Then run back there and say how bad we are.

So it's Gypsy that brought this on us with his antagonizing of Guest, who I remember as someone who helped a lot of people here. Ok he is a patriot to his motherland but he only ask us to show respect and nothing more. Gypsy thought it best to take matters into his own hand and make this a place to whine and tell Russians how to live. Rude if you ask me.

If you look back you will see that I only started to post in the currant affairs threads after Gypsy and redtape started this. I can't wait to get back to entertaining and telling jokes. But I can't in the atmosphere that has been created. we need this to stop and the only way is for Gypsy to apologize to Guest for being so rude and to stop bulling people here.

And maybe the rest of us can show a little more respect to our host for letting us spend time in this wonderful country of theirs.

I'm still selling thanks so get them while there hot, you can't be someone without great thanks numbers!

dontcallme
29-08-2010, 00:02
Here is where all this started I think.

http://www.expat.ru/forum/showpost.php?p=691061&postcount=24

This brought Gypsy back and of coarse he had to say that redtape is better and only people on expat say bad things about redtape they never talk about us, but this thread was started because the same thread was started first on redtape then copied here.

http://www.expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=225752&page=2


Then comes more people from redtape to say what they don't like about expat.

Here is where Carbo jumps in and starts the beginning of his first "I'm leaving" bit. by saying "What a lot of jealous, sour little Miss Haveshams there are on this forum"
http://www.expat.ru/forum/showpost.php?p=691342&postcount=44

Then goes on to say "However, the downside of that is that many of the Russians here, Iím sad to say, can be very testy: ready to dive down your throat at the slightest suspicion of an insult to the Rodina"

He goes on and you can read it. It just shows to me that Carbo hasn't learned how to act in Russia. You don't go into someones home and start to criticize them. Maybe you can do that in Britain but it not polite here to tell anybody how they should do things, that's just how it is. Now people will say "but they say about things about America" yes they do that here but I see it as Russians are just trying to learn about a place they may have not been and may not really understand. I think it would be better if Americans could be a little more calm instead for the normal "well Russia does" and a fight starts. If Americans really think they are better why do they need to put Russia down while living here? Don't they understand Russians yet? They see them everyday. Or is it they don't want to? Don't feel a need to show some respect to their host, and that's just what Americans are here Guest! We have no right to be here, Russians don't have to let anyone live and work here. It may be true for America but this is not America and some seem to forget that.

So if you look back you can see that Gypsy has brought this with him and his trouble starts with his fight with Guest. Because it was Gypsy that got Guest banned from here by fighting with his harassment of Guest that pushed Guest to a point anger. I think Gypsy has shown he hasn't changed if you look at how he has acted over the last month or so. He will never shy away from a fight on a forum. He even came back here just to tell us how bad expat is and how much better redtape is. He came back to fight and that is almost all he's done since.

I remember too how when bels was acting up and people here jumping on him people from redtape just had to come in and get in on the bels bashing. Then run back there and say how bad we are.

So it's Gypsy that brought this on us with his antagonizing of Guest, who I remember as someone who helped a lot of people here. Ok he is a patriot to his motherland but he only ask us to show respect and nothing more. Gypsy thought it best to take matters into his own hand and make this a place to whine and tell Russians how to live. Rude if you ask me.

If you look back you will see that I only started to post in the currant affairs threads after Gypsy and redtape started this. I can't wait to get back to entertaining and telling jokes. But I can't in the atmosphere that has been created. we need this to stop and the only way is for Gypsy to apologize to Guest for being so rude and to stop bulling people here.

And maybe the rest of us can show a little more respect to our host for letting us spend time in this wonderful country of theirs.

I'm still selling thanks so get them while there hot, you can't be someone without great thanks numbers!

I've had a bit of a look through your links and I'm a bit confused. The first is to a thread which which started on expat by a regular expat member and the thread starts with a needless attack on RT. Gypsy responded with:

As usual Bels your comments bear scant relationship to the truth. Most of the people who run Redtape are long term residents of Russia married to Russians and with no intention of leaving. There is criticism of problems encountered in Russia when they appear but the criticism does not degenerate into insult - there is a huge difference. One is constructive, one destructive.

The moderating is far tougher there which is why it is popular. It is the principal difference between the 2 sites in my opinion. Insult is stamped on there but tolerated here. It is horses for courses and there is more than enough room for both sites so why members here feel the need to insult Redtape I do not understand. No one forces you to go there - if you don't like it stay away.

This doing nothing more than defending RT and points out that insult is accepted here but not there which is a pretty fair opinion to have.

The second link is to a thread that we should all be ashamed of and shows both sites in a bad light.

The 3rd link is Carbo responding to a stupid attack in the thread on the RT site. The whole thing is just ridiculous.

Your own response Willy post32: Yes you are right so why don't they just stay over there and we'll all be happy!

This seems to sum up your attitude about relations between posters. It seems that you went to RT and got banned because they didn't like your posting style and now you attack and insult Carbo and Gypsy and are trying to hound them away from this site.

I don't think most posters have an "us" and "them" attitude and just want this site to be friendly, helpful and informative.

We've all created the bad atmosphere, myself included by getting involved in discussions that should have been left alone.

Willy
29-08-2010, 00:22
I've had a bit of a look through your links and I'm a bit confused. The first is to a thread which which started on expat by a regular expat member and the thread starts with a needless attack on RT. Gypsy responded with:

As usual Bels your comments bear scant relationship to the truth. Most of the people who run Redtape are long term residents of Russia married to Russians and with no intention of leaving. There is criticism of problems encountered in Russia when they appear but the criticism does not degenerate into insult - there is a huge difference. One is constructive, one destructive.

The moderating is far tougher there which is why it is popular. It is the principal difference between the 2 sites in my opinion. Insult is stamped on there but tolerated here. It is horses for courses and there is more than enough room for both sites so why members here feel the need to insult Redtape I do not understand. No one forces you to go there - if you don't like it stay away.

This doing nothing more than defending RT and points out that insult is accepted here but not there which is a pretty fair opinion to have.

The second link is to a thread that we should all be ashamed of and shows both sites in a bad light.

The 3rd link is Carbo responding to a stupid attack in the thread on the RT site. The whole thing is just ridiculous.

Your own response Willy post32: Yes you are right so why don't they just stay over there and we'll all be happy!

This seems to sum up your attitude about relations between posters. It seems that you went to RT and got banned because they didn't like your posting style and now you attack and insult Carbo and Gypsy and are trying to hound them away from this site.

I don't think most posters have an "us" and "them" attitude and just want this site to be friendly, helpful and informative.

We've all created the bad atmosphere, myself included by getting involved in discussions that should have been left alone.



No that thread was started because of one like it that was started a week before the one here.

And no I got banned because I wanted too, I never posted there much because yeah I don't like the tone and the pompous arrogance there. Like I said this started on redtape and was brought here. I don't think that really nice people start a thread about another forum, it just shows no class. You know it was really hard to get banned there for me, I tried as hard as I could, broke ever rule.

What Carbo will never understand and a lot of people there is it's not okay to criticize Russia or people here, it's just rude to Russians.

Gypsy and Carbo could stop all this by just forgetting their foolish pride and saying sorry to Guest and zingo (who are two different people) They don't understand they have caused problems to this site and will bring those problems to redtape. All it would take is three words, I am sorry. But their selfishness won't allow it.

TolkoRaz
29-08-2010, 00:28
:bedtime:

dontcallme
29-08-2010, 00:33
No that thread was started because of one like it that was started a week before the one here.

And no I got banned because I wanted too, I never posted there much because yeah I don't like the tone and the pompous arrogance there. Like I said this started on redtape and was brought here. I don't think that as really nice people to start a thread about another forum show no class. You know it was really hard to get banned there for me, I tried as hard as I could, broke ever rule.

What Carbo will never understand and a lot of people there is it's not okay to criticize Russia or people here, it's just rude to Russians.

Gypsy and Carbo could stop all this by just forgetting their foolish pride and saying sorry to Guest and zingo (who are two different people) They don't understand they have caused problems of this site and will bring those problems to redtape. All it would take is three words, I am sorry. But their selfishness won't allow it.

Fair enough about your banning. As far as I know Zingo and Guest have been banned from this site by the Mods of this site. Carbo and Gypsy haven't which suggests that they haven't broken any rules.

It is rude to criticise but that is a difference between the real world and the internet world. If I am having problems with something in Russia and talk to a Russian about it they might take offence so it is a difficult subject to bring up. On the internet though while diplomacy and respect are needed you are more free to discuss various subjects.

On here we can discuss American politics when we think the US are in the wrong. If I discussed this with an American in person he's likely to get upset but on an internet site we can.

On here we can discuss British history and rip it to shreds which in real life I as a Brit would take offence to but on here I want discussion as long as there isn't insult.

So of course on an expat site in Moscow people are going to discuss things about Russia. I don't see why people can't discuss difficulties or negatives things about Russia. As long as they aren't direct insults then surely it's OK.

The part in your post I've put into bold I disagree with. They've come here to discuss and debate and have done so within the rules of the site. The fact that they are active members on a different site doesn't change anything.

As members of this site they should be treated the same as everyone else, it isn't fair to label Carbo and Gypsy as "them" and hound their every post or attack them in threads which they haven't even participated in.

TolkoRaz
29-08-2010, 00:44
Willy, You are the fool; it quite clearly says it in Post 94! :bookworm:

TolkoRaz
29-08-2010, 00:51
Yes, it appears that Willy is pretending to be Gypsy IRL.

As I have written before, he is an idiot child! :coffee:

It also proves that Willy is unbalanced and becoming more unhinged with every passing hour!

Willy
29-08-2010, 00:52
Okay dontcallme,


There is no difference between here and the real world, you are a real person (I hope) and the people reading are real people too I don't see why someone can think that this can't be offensive because you can't touch them and they can't touch you.

You see there could be a way to find out about things you are having problems with here. First by trying to be as polite as you can. excusing yourself maybe before you ask. All I know is it's not working how people are doing it so it needs to be fixed. You can't just throw out all Russians here, we need them as they can help more than expats can many times. Like I said Guest helped many people here when nobody else could.

Willy
29-08-2010, 00:54
Yes, it appears that Willy is pretending to be Gypsy IRL.

As I have written before, he is an idiot child! :coffee:

It also proves that Willy is unbalanced and becoming more unhinged with every passing hour!



Gypsy lives near me?

Willy
29-08-2010, 00:55
Yes, it appears that Willy is pretending to be Gypsy IRL.

As I have written before, he is an idiot child! :coffee:

It also proves that Willy is unbalanced and becoming more unhinged with every passing hour!



Oh man you have lost it.


I hope you say your sorry when you find out how wrong you are.

dontcallme
29-08-2010, 00:57
Okay dontcallme,


There is no difference between here and the real world, you are a real person (I hope) and the people reading are real people too I don't see why someone can think that this can't be offensive because you can't touch them and they can't touch you.

You see there could be a way to find out about things you are having problems with here. First by trying to be as polite as you can. excusing yourself maybe before you ask. All I know is it's not working how people are doing it so it needs to be fixed. You can't just throw out all Russians here, we need them as they can help more than expats can many times. Like I said Guest helped many people here when nobody else could.

No the difference is that here you can choose which discussions you take part in. For example customer service is very different in Russia to America and Western Europe. If chatting in a bar with a Russian I am not going to talk about these problems, why? Because why should he be confronted by someone saying something negative about Russia? I haven't given him a choice whether he wants to participate or not.

Here someone can start a thread about Russian customer service and people are free to join in the discussion if they want. Like I said in my previous post diplomacy and respect is needed as much in the internet world as the real world but in the internet you can discuss a wider range of subjects.

TolkoRaz
29-08-2010, 01:00
We have copies of most of PMs sent by gypsy to various mods, as we have copies of some PMs exchanged between carbo, gypsy, and other persons.

Really Willy? :suspect:

If so, I think every poster on this site would like to know how and why their Private Messages are being shared with people like you?

Willy
29-08-2010, 01:05
Really Willy? :suspect:

If so, I think every poster on this site would like to know how and why their Private Messages are being shared with people like you?

Are you freaking drunk?

They are not being shared with me.


I am just the only one it seems who understands Russians and see how unfair people have been to them here and on redtape.

TolkoRaz
29-08-2010, 01:11
Willy, FFS what has RedTape got to do with here?

Have you got a hang up with RedTape or something?

I am sure that the majority of people on this site are not interested in RedTape, so why do you keep mentioning it?

Willy
29-08-2010, 01:11
I just happen to be the only one here not so caught up in myself to be able to see what's been going on.


And don't think that calling the police will do much because when they hear that Carbo and Gypsy are being attacked for bad mouthing Russia you'll find it hard to get any where.

Just say your sorry fools.

TolkoRaz
29-08-2010, 01:16
Willy, if they were bad mouthing Russia, it is not a crime!

In case you have not noticed, many Russians criticise their own country.......

BTW, do you actually speak a good level of Russian?

Willy
29-08-2010, 01:24
Now everyone is PMing you do know he can read them don't you?

TolkoRaz
29-08-2010, 01:26
Who can read them?

Willy
29-08-2010, 01:28
Willy, if they were bad mouthing Russia, it is not a crime!

In case you have not noticed, many Russians criticise their own country.......

BTW, do you actually speak a good level of Russian?



How many times do I have to say that Russians can say anything they want about their country.


It's insulting when we do it. Has nothing to do with crime, and has to do respect.

My Russian wife doesn't speak English and I knock her up so I guess my Russian is good enough.

Gypsy
29-08-2010, 01:28
Willy, if they were bad mouthing Russia, it is not a crime!

In case you have not noticed, many Russians criticise their own country.......

BTW, do you actually speak a good level of Russian?
You are wasting your breath Raz.

Willy has been asked many times to show where I supposedly bad-mouthed russia or russians. He is unable to do so. So instead he invents lies. You cannot have a debate with someone that dishonest so leave him to it.

Willy
29-08-2010, 01:28
Who can read them?



Guest.

Willy
29-08-2010, 01:30
You are wasting your breath Raz.

Willy has been asked many times to show where I supposedly bad-mouthed russia or russians. He is unable to do so. So instead he invents lies. You cannot have a debate with someone that dishonest so leave him to it.

It's you who are wasting your chance.

Your a fool Gypsy a fool. I tried to help you.


You would be better off saying sorry and stopping all this.

TolkoRaz
29-08-2010, 01:32
Guest.

Who is Guest?

Willy
29-08-2010, 01:41
Who is Guest?



It's a guy who used to be a member here and Gypsy got him banned.

He works for the FSB or has connections

Who else could read your PM's

He's most likely seen how much porn you watch on your computer too.

TolkoRaz
29-08-2010, 01:46
He's most likely seen how much porn you watch on your computer too.

That is not a crime either! :tv:

Willy
29-08-2010, 01:49
That is not a crime either! :tv:




Well then your safe there.


Anything good tonight?

Willy
29-08-2010, 01:51
Just say your sorry carbo PM's won't help.

Carbo
29-08-2010, 01:59
Here is where all this started I think.

http://www.expat.ru/forum/showpost.php?p=691061&postcount=24

This brought Gypsy back and of coarse he had to say that redtape is better and only people on expat say bad things about redtape they never talk about us, but this thread was started because the same thread was started first on redtape then copied here.

http://www.expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=225752&page=2


Then comes more people from redtape to say what they don't like about expat.

Here is where Carbo jumps in and starts the beginning of his first "I'm leaving" bit. by saying "What a lot of jealous, sour little Miss Haveshams there are on this forum"
http://www.expat.ru/forum/showpost.php?p=691342&postcount=44

Then goes on to say "However, the downside of that is that many of the Russians here, I’m sad to say, can be very testy: ready to dive down your throat at the slightest suspicion of an insult to the Rodina"

He goes on and you can read it. It just shows to me that Carbo hasn't learned how to act in Russia. You don't go into someones home and start to criticize them. Maybe you can do that in Britain but it not polite here to tell anybody how they should do things, that's just how it is. Now people will say "but they say about things about America" yes they do that here but I see it as Russians are just trying to learn about a place they may have not been and may not really understand. I think it would be better if Americans could be a little more calm instead for the normal "well Russia does" and a fight starts. If Americans really think they are better why do they need to put Russia down while living here? Don't they understand Russians yet? They see them everyday. Or is it they don't want to? Don't feel a need to show some respect to their host, and that's just what Americans are here Guest! We have no right to be here, Russians don't have to let anyone live and work here. It may be true for America but this is not America and some seem to forget that.

So if you look back you can see that Gypsy has brought this with him and his trouble starts with his fight with Guest. Because it was Gypsy that got Guest banned from here by fighting with his harassment of Guest that pushed Guest to a point anger. I think Gypsy has shown he hasn't changed if you look at how he has acted over the last month or so. He will never shy away from a fight on a forum. He even came back here just to tell us how bad expat is and how much better redtape is. He came back to fight and that is almost all he's done since.

I remember too how when bels was acting up and people here jumping on him people from redtape just had to come in and get in on the bels bashing. Then run back there and say how bad we are.

So it's Gypsy that brought this on us with his antagonizing of Guest, who I remember as someone who helped a lot of people here. Ok he is a patriot to his motherland but he only ask us to show respect and nothing more. Gypsy thought it best to take matters into his own hand and make this a place to whine and tell Russians how to live. Rude if you ask me.

If you look back you will see that I only started to post in the currant affairs threads after Gypsy and redtape started this. I can't wait to get back to entertaining and telling jokes. But I can't in the atmosphere that has been created. we need this to stop and the only way is for Gypsy to apologize to Guest for being so rude and to stop bulling people here.

And maybe the rest of us can show a little more respect to our host for letting us spend time in this wonderful country of theirs.

I'm still selling thanks so get them while there hot, you can't be someone without great thanks numbers!
You see, this post exposes Willy as the shameless liar and wanton troublemaker that he is, and before my account is deleted permanently, which it will be soon, I wanted the opportunity to reply to Willy's fabrication and slander.

Willy is trying to argue that I entered the thread which was debating the relative virtues of the forums on RedTape.ru and Expat.ru (http://www.expat.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=225752) to deliberately antagonise, and that in the process of doing so, I criticized the Russian users of this forum.

I did not. In fact, I did exactly the opposite: I actually said that I visited here specifically because it had more Russians. Read the full passage (http://www.expat.ru/forum/showpost.php?p=691342&postcount=44) yourselves so you all can see how Willy lies and twists words in order to smear a user's reputation and whip up anger:


"This [expat] has far more Russians on it, which... is one of the things that the other place misses out on, because speaking to real Russians, as opposed to the sheltered expat world, changes one’s perspective here. So that’s one bonus to Expat.ru.

However, the downside of that is that many of the Russians here, I’m sad to say, can be very testy: ready to dive down your throat at the slightest suspicion of an insult to the Rodina."

I also said, quite clearly, later in that post, that each of the forums have their own strong points and that they're both good for different things, but that I really liked posting on Expat. Please read the whole post for yourselves by either following the link I provided above. When you do, you will understand the full scope of Willy's deceit.

I just wanted to share that, so that the forum could see the outrageous lies that Willy peddles on a daily basis.

But then, how could it be any different? I came to live in Russia, and I could leave at any time. So why wouldn't I, if I disliked Russians and hated the country? In fact, I love the country, and, with the greatest respect to my expat friends, my favourite times here have been those I have spent with Russians. Sure, I complain. Sure I sometimes miss home. Sure, I am a patriotic Brit. But who doesn't complain? Who doesn't love the country of their birth? Do any of those things mean I can't also love Russia and the Russian people? Or course not, and never believe anyone who tells you otherwise.

I would also point out, so that people know where much of the aggravation and nastyness comes from on this forum, that Willy yesterday attacked and mocked Gypsy for a personal tragedy (http://expat.ru/forum/showpost.php?p=721573&postcount=64) that befell Gypsy and his family, where his wife was in a serious accident, leaving Gypsy to bring up their children.

Plenty of us have used colourful language here. Plenty of us have abused eachother. But I don't think there is anyone here that would mock a man for having the love of his life disabled in a terrible accident, leaving him to cope and bring up the children alone.

For Willy that personal tragedy, once he knew of it, was just ammunition.

And I don't think that such an insult is so easy to laugh off.

Would any of you cross such I line? I think not. So, I ask you all, what sort of a person do you think would?

Make no mistake, in this depraved attack, and in the outright lies, just one of which I have briefly exposed above, Willy has once and for all exposed his pathetic, loathsome character: he is a low life sucking on the sewage pipe for detritus so that he may spit it at us from his snarling, wicked mouth.

Thanks to all those who've had kind words to say on this thread. As I said in my first post, I didn't want to write anything to say I'm leaving, because I always think it appears conceited and pathetic to do so. I just had to defend myself against the kind of lies you see from Willy above.

However, despite those kind words, I'm afriad I'm going to have to insist that the mods delete my account altogether. This is possible, and given that when I logged on half an hour ago, there were two more personal threats in my PM inbox this evening, I think it's time to go.

Thanks also for your help and perserverance Ezik: you have done a tremendous job in recent days and your PM responses, advice and information have been a great help. Same for the rest of the mods, but I don't want to deal with this anymore.

ezik
29-08-2010, 02:04
You don't know TD. Neither do you know why he left Russia. Your suggestion is ridiculous, untrue, and you are getting on legally thin ice by posting this.

In addition to some threathening PMs you sent to a few members, you can sure that you will be banned at some point. Just for the purpose of recognition, you will be allowed access for now.

There's a past and there is information. I advice you to stop this stuff. You are not an anominous user.

[QUOTE=;721950](...)Guest was banned because he disclosed that the site admin TD had to run outside Russia after being caught having sex with a teen, and Zingo was banned by AndyB after about 30 PMs gypsy sent to various mods.

Willy
29-08-2010, 02:13
It's too bad you didn't say sorry to Guest before leaving.


You and Gypsy want to look at things in your own way and that's why you have the trouble you do. You may like Russia but you will never understand her.

Glad you came back to take one more poke at me, you are the cause of your problems Carbo not I.

Willy
29-08-2010, 02:41
You don't know TD. Neither do you know why he left Russia. Your suggestion is ridiculous, untrue, and you are getting on legally thin ice by posting this.

In addition to some threathening PMs you sent to a few members, you can sure that you will be banned at some point. Just for the purpose of recognition, you will be allowed access for now.

There's a past and there is information. I advice you to stop this stuff. You are not an anominous user.

[QUOTE=;721950](...)Guest was banned because he disclosed that the site admin TD had to run outside Russia after being caught having sex with a teen, and Zingo was banned by AndyB after about 30 PMs gypsy sent to various mods.

Why does Carbo think it's okay for Gypsy to say I have sex with under age girls but it's "getting on legally thin ice" if Guest does it?

ezik
29-08-2010, 02:43
I have been in good contact with Guest around the ban. Explained him the reasons and we had some understanding.

Willy, you are risking your membership of this site with PMs you are sending to some people. They are not perceived very well.

5 minutes to come clean, ok?


It's too bad you didn't say sorry to Guest before leaving.


You and Gypsy want to look at things in your own way and that's why you have the trouble you do. You may like Russia but you will never understand her.

Glad you came back to take one more poke at me, you are the cause of your problems Carbo not I.

Willy
29-08-2010, 03:01
I have been in good contact with Guest around the ban. Explained him the reasons and we had some understanding.

Willy, you are risking your membership of this site with PMs you are sending to some people. They are not perceived very well.

5 minutes to come clean, ok?



what do you mean by come clean?


I sent Carbo a pm and told him to say sorry that's all. It was only one pm not more.

I did tell someone else not to mess with Guest but I thought that would be helpful, why do they need to get into this?

Carbo
29-08-2010, 03:04
[quote=ezik;722004]You don't know TD. Neither do you know why he left Russia. Your suggestion is ridiculous, untrue, and you are getting on legally thin ice by posting this.

In addition to some threathening PMs you sent to a few members, you can sure that you will be banned at some point. Just for the purpose of recognition, you will be allowed access for now.

There's a past and there is information. I advice you to stop this stuff. You are not an anominous user.



Why does Carbo think it's okay for Gypsy to say I have sex with under age girls but it's "getting on legally thin ice" if Guest does it?

Willy, it was my impression that you were banned from RedTape because of antics like the ones you pulled the other day, and I certainly didn't say it was because you had sex with underrage girls.

I came back here to respond to you twisting my words and lying about things I'd written, and also to give you a piece of my mind about what you said to Gypsy.

Personally, as I've told the moderators, I think you'll calm right down when I go. Unfortunately, I really rub you up the wrong way, and it causes threads like this. Once that has disappeared, I think things will be different.

Willy
29-08-2010, 03:04
And if they believe it or not they could be in real trouble here.

Which could all go away with three words.


I am sorry.

Carbo
29-08-2010, 03:07
And if they believe it or not they could be in real trouble here.

There you go again.

Just what is it that you think that I or Gypsy have to apologise for?

Willy
29-08-2010, 03:08
[quote=Willy;722007]

Willy, it was my impression that you were banned from RedTape because of antics the other day, and I certainly didn't say it was because you had sex with underrage girls.

I came back here to respond to you twisting my words and lying about things I'd written, and also to give you a piece of my mind about what you said to Gypsy.



I said Gypsy said that. I know you didn't

And I was banned a long time ago from redtape. I would have been banned and was quickly so I could not defend myself from Gypsy's attack.

Willy
29-08-2010, 03:09
There you go again.

Just what is it that you think that I or Gypsy have to apologise for?



It doesn't matter does it?


If the guy says he'll just leave you alone you should just say it even if you think you have nothing to be sorry for.

ezik
29-08-2010, 03:15
It doesn't matter does it?


If the guy says he'll just leave you alone you should just say it even if you think you have nothing to be sorry for.

That's a lot of BS. Only true apologies count. You don't get the point that you need to apologise. I gave you enough time. Farewell.

Carbo
29-08-2010, 03:15
It doesn't matter does it?


If the guy says he'll just leave you alone you should just say it even if you think you have nothing to be sorry for.
Zingo/Guest will leave me along once I'm not posting here. He'll leave me alone once he cools off. He'll leave me alone one way or the other. If I apologized, and then continued posting here, he certainly would not leave me alone, Willy.

Willy
29-08-2010, 03:28
Zingo/Guest will leave me along once I'm not posting here. He'll leave me alone once he cools off. He'll leave me alone one way or the other. If I apologized, and then continued posting here, he certainly would not leave me alone, Willy.



No you are wrong he is not going to cool off.

And it doesn't matter if you stop posting here or on redtape or not he wants you and Gypsy to say sorry, and stop criticizing Russia.

He was on redtape today but they deleted his post quickly maybe you didn't see them. He will be there again.

He told me your name and it was right wasn't it? That's what got you scared by my pm isn't it?

He showed me Gypsy's photo today and I've met him so I know it was him. He has you name, address, work address, same for Gypsy.

Please believe me when I say I know Russians and how they feel, I've been here 16 years. Just say your sorry and stop acting this way it really pisses him off.

Carbo
29-08-2010, 03:34
No you are wrong he is not going to cool off.

And it doesn't matter if you stop posting here or on redtape or not he wants you and Gypsy to say sorry, and stop criticizing Russia.

He was on redtape today but they deleted his post quickly maybe you didn't see them. He will be there again.

He told me your name and it was right wasn't it? That's what got you scared by my pm isn't it?

He showed me Gypsy's photo today and I've met him so I know it was him. He has you name, address, work address, same for Gypsy.

Please believe me when I say I know Russians and how they feel, I've been here 16 years. Just say your sorry and stop acting this way it really pisses him off.
Very nasty stuff, Willy.

Willy
29-08-2010, 03:38
Very nasty stuff, Willy.



I'm trying to help you fool!


And you want to start that again?

ezik
29-08-2010, 03:44
Willy, care to share who "he" is? Name, address, work address, etc?

It's so easy to find out personal details, just by cross-checking email adresses, memberships to sites, email addresses.

We do the same when banning people, but it is about IPs and other stuff, often publicly posted information makes it very easy to identify a person and find out basic details.

I'm sorry about telling I was going to ban you. You got my benefit of the doubt with your last post and I'm only human. Moreover, I am an information security freak with a bit of an Intelligence background (nothing too major) so I'm curious. Just stop freaking out people, ok?

I know some FSB people and it's a fact that they look at this site.

However, anyone trying to pose as a powerful FSB spook is by default incredible.


No you are wrong he is not going to cool off.

And it doesn't matter if you stop posting here or on redtape or not he wants you and Gypsy to say sorry, and stop criticizing Russia.

He was on redtape today but they deleted his post quickly maybe you didn't see them. He will be there again.

He told me your name and it was right wasn't it? That's what got you scared by my pm isn't it?

He showed me Gypsy's photo today and I've met him so I know it was him. He has you name, address, work address, same for Gypsy.

Please believe me when I say I know Russians and how they feel, I've been here 16 years. Just say your sorry and stop acting this way it really pisses him off.

Carbo
29-08-2010, 03:45
I'm trying to help you fool!


And you want to start that again?

I'm trying to be conciliatory. I've told you that I think I rub you up the wrong way, and that once I leave, you'll feel better. I've told you that I think my very presence here on the forum is what irritates Zingo/Guest, and that once I leave here, it'll be fine. I don't go around criticising Russia. Sometimes I criticise the policies of the Russian government, other times I defend them. And i only do it on the forum, which i specifically designed for people who want to do that. I don't join protests; i keep my views to myself in public. I never, ever, ever break, or have I broken, a single Russian law. So, once I leave here, and he won't read anything of me, he'll cool off.

I've already said that to you, and I don't think that saying so is starting anything.

You're the one making threats -- not your own, but on behalf of someone else.

It's nasty to pretend that someone has another person's name, address, place of work, and then to imply that this someone is going to use these to somehow threaten, or actually attack that person, wouldn't you agree?

I think, as i say, all this will die down after I leave here, and will get better.

Willy
29-08-2010, 03:52
Willy, care to share who "he" is? Name, address, work address, etc?

It's so easy to find out personal details, just by cross-checking email adresses, memberships to sites, email addresses.

We do the same when banning people, but it is about IPs and other stuff, often publicly posted information makes it very easy to identify a person and find out basic details.

I'm sorry about telling I was going to ban you. You got my benefit of the doubt with your last post and I'm only human. Moreover, I am an information security freak with a bit of an Intelligence background (nothing too major) so I'm curious. Just stop freaking out people, ok?

I know some FSB people and it's a fact that they look at this site.

However, anyone trying to pose as a powerful FSB spook is by default incredible.


Who's address? Guest? I don't know that, he just PM'd me stuff.

How can Guest show me Gypsy's photo? Is it on the net somewhere? Look you remember how Guest always had the right info on visa's and government stuff. He was very good at that. He had to be in or know someone in the FSB.

ReallyGreatConcerts
29-08-2010, 04:04
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/242854/242854,1255371977,4/stock-photo-baby-boy-plugging-his-ears-and-closing-his-eyes-38746801.jpg
Please, Mummy, make it stop?!

Willy
29-08-2010, 04:06
I'm trying to be conciliatory. I've told you that I think I rub you up the wrong way, and that once I leave, you'll feel better. I've told you that I think my very presence here on the forum is what irritates Zingo/Guest, and that once I leave here, it'll be fine. I don't go around criticising Russia. Sometimes I criticise the policies of the Russian government, other times I defend them. And i only do it on the forum, which i specifically designed for people who want to do that. I don't join protests; i keep my views to myself in public. I never, ever, ever break, or have I broken, a single Russian law. So, once I leave here, and he won't read anything of me, he'll cool off.

I've already said that to you, and I don't think that saying so is starting anything.

You're the one making threats -- not your own, but on behalf of someone else.

It's nasty to pretend that someone has another person's name, address, place of work, and then to imply that this someone is going to use these to somehow threaten, or actually attack that person, wouldn't you agree?

I think, as i say, all this will die down after I leave here, and will get better.



Again you don't understand, it's more Gypsy then you.

And no I don't get scare Carbo I've been living here to long and have seen to many things, I could really care less about dying.


You will not be attacked and you won't be beaten, what will happen is 20 or 30 of you favorite nashi will hound you at home and work until you leave the country.

Gypsy did a very good job of making them angry. I know he's good at.


All you have to do is say sorry. Why is that so hard?

Willy
29-08-2010, 04:07
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/242854/242854,1255371977,4/stock-photo-baby-boy-plugging-his-ears-and-closing-his-eyes-38746801.jpg
Please, Mummy, make it stop?!



Will you **** off!

The grown ups are trying to talk.

Carbo
29-08-2010, 04:10
Again you don't understand, it's more Gypsy then you.

And no I don't get scare Carbo I've been living here to long and have seen to many things, I could really care less about dying.


You will not be attacked and you won't be beaten, what will happen is 20 or 30 of you favorite nashi will hound you at home and work until you leave the country.

Gypsy did a very good job of making them angry. I know he's good at.


All you have to do is say sorry. Why is that so hard?

Why is it so hard for you just to stop this? Threat after threat after threat. You're wrong in almost everything you've said, though.

I'm trying to be good about it, but alas...

Tell you what: since you can't stop yourself, I'll shall gracefully retire from this thread.

I made my point, and, I suppose, you did, too.

Gypsy
29-08-2010, 04:11
Why does Carbo think it's okay for Gypsy to say I have sex with under age girls but it's "getting on legally thin ice" if Guest does it?

More dishonesty - nowhere did I say that you were banned for having sex with under age girls. I simply did not say that, you are lying.

In your post further up that Carbo takes issue with you claim I joined expat to insult its members and claim that redtape is better.

This is even more outright lies. My post which you quoted contradicts what you say. Nowhere in it do I say that redtape is better. I made 2 posts that said they were different, and the point of difference was the moderating which is more relaxed here. That is a fact. You have insulted me well over 40 times in 5 weeks. Not innuendo, but direct attacks - all lies as well. This would not be allowed on redtape.

You choose to ignore the post you made before that one which accused redtape members of various "crimes".eg. Having a long thread saying that russian women are hookers. You knew that was a lie when you posted it. One RT member made a drunken post, was jumped on by everyone else - so RT was DEFENDING russian women as you very well knew - and at the end the original poster apologised. But posting the truth would not help you so you decided to post lies.

In the same thread you accused RT members - all of them were so tarred - of saying that russian men smelled bad. Again, as you saw the thread you will know that the comment was made by a russian woman, who is also a poster on expat and later echoed by other russian women, Two facts you chose to leave out of your post. Again lying. You also neglected to point out that two english women there had argued against this. So you were in addition lying by omission.

And yesterday you sunk to a new low - even for you - in posting a deliberate lie saying that my wife had walked out on me. That was despicable. The only reason for inventing a lie such as that is to cause as much hurt as you can.

In between you have followed me around trolling, insulting me in threads where I had made no comment toward you at all. eg A month ago two female members got into an argument. I made a post designed to calm things down - both ladies thanked me, through PMs as well as on thread. WHat did you do bearing in mind it had nothing to do with you at all?

You posted this:
More proof you know nothing about women

Just one of dozens of examples of your trolling and insults.

ReallyGreatConcerts
29-08-2010, 04:27
The grown ups are trying to talk.


Hard to believe.

Just a sand-pit "he-said-she-said-you're-not-my-fwiend-ANY-longer!" spat

Willy
29-08-2010, 04:45
You really take "you know nothing about women" as a big insult?


Okay.


Look lets get this straight, I didn't say any where here the you said I was banned for talking about under age girls so how would you remember exactly what you said on redtape?

I wrote here the you said I had sex with under age girls not that I was banned for it. But that is how you put it on redtape. How can you remember that better than I if you didn't say that?


Look I will let others judge you now and it is you who have people after you not me. Why is that Gypsy? Because I don't hate, I don't do things to hurt people and I do things for the good of all unselfishly without reward.

My beliefs tell me, think good thoughts and good will come back to you. Hate and have bad thoughts and hate and bad things will come to you.

Live by this Gypsy and all your trouble will disappear.

Start by agreeing with these,

ē Be impeccable with your word.

ē Do not take anything personally.

ē Do not make assumptions.

ē Always do your best.

Willy
29-08-2010, 04:47
Hard to believe.

Just a sand-pit "he-said-she-said-you're-not-my-fwiend-ANY-longer!" spat



We will see.

And now I can't say I didn't try to help them.

TD
29-08-2010, 09:56
It's a guy who used to be a member here and Gypsy got him banned.

He got himself banned by threatening several people, including Gypsy


Who else could read your PM's

This was discussed at length in another thread recently. NOBODY can read anyone's PM messages, and no one has access to any account info except for myself and Ezik. Any part of PMs that might be floating around are a result of either the poster or recipient sharing them with other people.


Anyway, now that I’ve made my point, I shall, to the pleasure of many, leave.

I’ve sent a message to the moderators asking that my account be deleted altogether, so can anyone who wishes to contact me please do so via PM to Gypsy or MissAnnElk. I hope they won’t mind me using their names as proxies.

Carbo's wishes will be honored, and he may or not be leaving us in his present incarnation henceforth... if so we wish him well.