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ShainaWu
22-07-2010, 15:08
I've read the road trip russia bible 'The Linger Longer: Driving the Trans-Siberian', but how dangerous is it driving in russia in a really nice car?

Is it ok to drive in Russia? I've heard they have a very high accident rate. I'm also concerned about crime in Russia. If anyone has driven in russia, or can give me some advise it would be massively appreciated

thanks :)

tvadim133
22-07-2010, 15:21
Do you mean tavelling or driving in cities?

As for travelling, it is not very pleasant.

First of all in case you need a help, it would be problematic to get it without the Russian Language knowledge.

Though I tavelled by car in central Russia without a problem at all.

in 90s, there were some unpleasant cases but mainly with trucks!

In cities, it is safe, but in big cities like Moscow, S.Petersburg, Voronezh there are a lot traffics and it made people be crazy.

Baron
22-07-2010, 17:31
What kind of 'really nice car' are you talking? I'm buying a car and interested in teh same question. It'd be great to do a few road-trips, but if driving a BMW M3 or Aston Martin outside the city means stopped by police, road blocks bribes every day, not much point...

Gypsy
22-07-2010, 19:11
What kind of 'really nice car' are you talking? I'm buying a car and interested in teh same question. It'd be great to do a few road-trips, but if driving a BMW M3 or Aston Martin outside the city means stopped by police, road blocks bribes every day, not much point...

You will be a target, no question. You will be stopped more in the last week of the month too.

I have driven here, Moscow, for 4 years and only ever had trouble when I had a girlfriend with darker skin. We would be stopped EVERY time we took the car and fleeced for one thing or another. 5000 rouble "fine" every time.

I once got stopped for driving over a pedestrian crossing I hadn't seen, and the cop was superb. Told me off - quite right, I was in the wrong, warned me and let me go.

Regarding traffic - driving standards are terrible - but if you can drive in London, Paris or Brussels then Moscow is no problem. St Pete's is definitely better and Kaluga, Saratov, Rostov and Ufa are positively benign.

What you do have to be wary of is the quality of the roads outside the cities. Even a couple of kilometres outside Moscow the quality is far below a decent standard and cars with low ground clearance and hard suspension, like the M5 or Aston, will not last long.

Do not even consider bringing a good car to Russia - cars are modified in the factory for russian conditions - much tougher filters and changes to suspension mainly.

But if you want to be ontime for meetings, get-togethers etc - use the metro. It is a gem, fantastic service.

zingo
22-07-2010, 20:43
I have driven here, Moscow, for 4 years and only ever had trouble when I had a girlfriend with darker skin.

Ah yeees, cops are racists and check the passengers color of the skin to decide to stop a car! You are pathetic!

BTW what means "with darkER skin"? DarkER than what?

alouette
22-07-2010, 21:11
It really depends. Heard of some people who always consider the thing 'if something goes wrong' and it's better to have spear 5K rub. just in case. Disgusting but still works.

Gypsy
22-07-2010, 21:12
Ah yeees, cops are racists and check the passengers color of the skin to decide to stop a car! You are pathetic!

BTW what means "with darkER skin"? DarkER than what?
This is an information thread - you should keep your hijacks and extremist right wing views out of it - leave them in the politics and current affairs folders.

Baron asked for experiences that was mine. We would be stopped every time with her in the car. Since she left, the only time I have been stopped is the example I gave above. And, no I do not think it is a coincidence.

TolkoRaz
22-07-2010, 23:14
YouTube- Хроники ДТП 2010

TolkoRaz
22-07-2010, 23:15
I trust that answers the question?

No you know why I have a microlight! :tv:

SV1973a
22-07-2010, 23:36
YouTube- Хроники ДТП 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psQHKKTeylg&feature=player_embedded)

Horrible, but this is reality.
Most of the accidents in these videos are caused by overspeeding and ignoring red lights. In fact, all of them could have been avoided.
I suppose that the pedestrians that got hit, were an a suicide mission. If you can avoid to cross a street, do so.
Another cause of accidents is the deplorable state of vehicles on Russian roads. People pass the technical inspection because they give bribes to the inspectors.
However, these unfit vehicles become a real danger on the road.

TolkoRaz
22-07-2010, 23:52
You are exactly correct; the majority were caused by idotic drivers ignoring the basic rules of the road :coffee:

Sadly, many innocent law abiding people must have been very badly injured or killed in most of those avoidable incidents! :(

Quite horrific and sickening to watch; I had to think twice before posting it!

Many apologies if I have upset anyone!

Baron
23-07-2010, 01:46
ouch... nasty. some of those looked like icy conditions contributed to it.

Also, lesson is to never be first away from the lights...

Willy
23-07-2010, 01:52
This is an information thread - you should keep your hijacks and extremist right wing views out of it - leave them in the politics and current affairs folders.

Baron asked for experiences that was mine. We would be stopped every time with her in the car. Since she left, the only time I have been stopped is the example I gave above. And, no I do not think it is a coincidence.



Are we sure you have no other motives?

You seem not to like Russia or Russians.

zingo
23-07-2010, 08:14
Are we sure you have no other motives?

You seem not to like Russia or Russians.

He likes Russia when he can make money there,

He likes Russians that are gay or/and with dark skin, as he can say "Look, you are victims of the other Russians"! He also likes giving good clever advices to everybody as he is soooo superior and as Russians neeeed his advices.

Don't you see that in most of his posts, he speaks about racism? he seems to have some serious psycho problem about this.

Racism is in his poor brain, some people LOVE to be perpetual victims! Saying he was stopped because of his passenger had dark skin is the best BS I have read on this forum since a while! Cops who are corrupted look at the CAR and not at the passenger's skin to think if they can get money from the driver. But gypsy is happy to say 'Racist cops", LOL at least in THIS country he has the RIGHT to say this. In HIS country he would have jailed already!

zingo
23-07-2010, 08:17
This is an information thread - you should keep your hijacks and extremist right wing views out of it - leave them in the politics and current affairs folders.

Because your "she has dark skin so we were stopped" has something to do in this thread about "how dangerous is it driving"?

Poor gypsy... poor perpetual victim!


> Baron asked for experiences that was mine. We would be stopped every time with her in the car. Since she left, the only time I have been stopped is the example I gave above. And, no I do not think it is a coincidence.

EVERY TIME? LOOOOOL!!! And clever as you are, every time you gave money, so? You don't even understand the level of stupidity of what you said!

Seeing all the GYPSY taxi drivers who have dark skin especially those working at night, if your theory was true, none of them would work.

But thank you to make me (and others, considering how many MP I receive :)) laugh!

zingo
23-07-2010, 08:25
Horrible, but this is reality.
Most of the accidents in these videos are caused by overspeeding and ignoring red lights. In fact, all of them could have been avoided.
I suppose that the pedestrians that got hit, were an a suicide mission. If you can avoid to cross a street, do so.
Another cause of accidents is the deplorable state of vehicles on Russian roads. People pass the technical inspection because they give bribes to the inspectors.
However, these unfit vehicles become a real danger on the road.

And another cause is the low amount of fines that are given for violation of the traffic rules. Even when they are paid by bank and not by cash to the cop, there is nothing dissuasive at all. Put an automatic sanction of 3 years without license for a red light, and things will change.

Willy
23-07-2010, 09:51
He likes Russia when he can make money there,

He likes Russians that are gay or/and with dark skin, as he can say "Look, you are victims of the other Russians"! He also likes giving good clever advices to everybody as he is soooo superior and as Russians neeeed his advices.

Don't you see that in most of his posts, he speaks about racism? he seems to have some serious psycho problem about this.

Racism is in his poor brain, some people LOVE to be perpetual victims! Saying he was stopped because of his passenger had dark skin is the best BS I have read on this forum since a while! Cops who are corrupted look at the CAR and not at the passenger's skin to think if they can get money from the driver. But gypsy is happy to say 'Racist cops", LOL at least in THIS country he has the RIGHT to say this. In HIS country he would have jailed already!



I think he has an agenda and I think he wants to seem like he knows it all. Yeah cops take bribes, what do you want them to do, starve? Until they start making real money you'll have to donate every once in a while. If you don't like it take the metro.

Okay we speak of driving but what about parking? You have to think about where your going to park that thing! Not many places left.

Gypsy
23-07-2010, 10:01
Are we sure you have no other motives?

You seem not to like Russia or Russians.

Willy - there is nothing I have posted that could possibly give you that impression.

I have been here 4 years and I love it. You have to be myopic and frankly a little dim to extrapolate from a few negative experiences that I do not like the country. That does not mean I am blind to the problems that exist - that would be just stupid. And if I see it and there is a post on it I will comment.

Baron and Shaina asked for experiences, I gave mine. You can like it or not - that is your choice, but if it helps the two who asked, good. They too are free to completely ignore my experience if they like.

It is a huge mistake to confuse observation with criticism, which by the way is a positive act, and with insult, which is negative.

And in 4 years on this site I have never insulted Russia or its people. I have many, many times made observations, and several times criticised things I have seen. You need to learn to appreciate the difference.

And my observations on life in Moscow are nothing compared to my Russian friends. Now if they started posting here and pretended to be American, you would have a fit. But the comments are just as valid. Believe me no one knows better than a Muscovite what the problems are, or suffers more as a result.

Tolko Raz - It made very difficult viewing. I lost my wife to a car crash that was completely avoidable, so it was hard to watch. But it is iimportant that people see that cars are potentially lethal weapons, and go out of control very, very quickly.

Anyway - thank you for posting that, it should be seen,

zingo
23-07-2010, 10:16
I think he has an agenda and I think he wants to seem like he knows it all. Yeah cops take bribes, what do you want them to do, starve? Until they start making real money you'll have to donate every once in a while. If you don't like it take the metro.

Okay we speak of driving but what about parking? You have to think about where your going to park that thing! Not many places left.

Ok there is no interest speaking about a gypsy, after all! He knows all, is the best, Russians are VERY happy he came here to teach us, etc etc. Old music...

Parking is IMO the source of accidents too, drivers stop anywhere really, I saw even yesterday in third line on the sadovoe koltso, so buses could not go! Dear Luzhkov should do something against these drivers, blocking the car like it is done in Europe would be great: Car is blocked with a mechanical system, a photo is taken, and the driver must call a special team that will come (in a few hours!) to remove the device and cash the fine, that should be IMO 3 to 5000 rubles. Like this only drivers will stop parking their cars anywhere.

And after all, if people have no place to park their lovely car, there are buses and metro! and gypsy cabs!

Willy
23-07-2010, 10:38
Willy - there is nothing I have posted that could possibly give you that impression.

I have been here 4 years and I love it. You have to be myopic and frankly a little dim to extrapolate from a few negative experiences that I do not like the country. That does not mean I am blind to the problems that exist - that would be just stupid. And if I see it and there is a post on it I will comment.

Baron and Shaina asked for experiences, I gave mine. You can like it or not - that is your choice, but if it helps the two who asked, good. They too are free to completely ignore my experience if they like.

It is a huge mistake to confuse observation with criticism, which by the way is a positive act, and with insult, which is negative.

And in 4 years on this site I have never insulted Russia or its people. I have many, many times made observations, and several times criticised things I have seen. You need to learn to appreciate the difference.

And my observations on life in Moscow are nothing compared to my Russian friends. Now if they started posting here and pretended to be American, you would have a fit. But the comments are just as valid. Believe me no one knows better than a Muscovite what the problems are, or suffers more as a result.

Tolko Raz - It made very difficult viewing. I lost my wife to a car crash that was completely avoidable, so it was hard to watch. But it is iimportant that people see that cars are potentially lethal weapons, and go out of control very, very quickly.

Anyway - thank you for posting that, it should be seen,



Like zingo said you make it sound like all Russian cops are racist and evil. They exhort large bribes every time your with someone that has dark skin.
I've been here for 16 years and I think I've seen a little more then you. I know the cops can and will take your money it's part of life here but please do remember that cops don't make so much here and what do you want them to do? Maybe you don't like the 13% tax? They don't do this to everyone and all the time, I see people with "dark skin" driving here and I don't think they could afford 5000 r everyday or like you make it sound everywhere they go.

We have many Moscovites on this forum if they like they can speak up.


"You have to be myopic and frankly a little dim"

This is your opinion and opinions like this are best kept to yourself, they are insulting, rude, and uncalled for. You like to talk about how rude people are on this forum, well why don't you lead by example instead of trying to make it a fact.

Willy
23-07-2010, 10:41
Ok there is no interest speaking about a gypsy, after all! He knows all, is the best, Russians are VERY happy he came here to teach us, etc etc. Old music...

Parking is IMO the source of accidents too, drivers stop anywhere really, I saw even yesterday in third line on the sadovoe koltso, so buses could not go! Dear Luzhkov should do something against these drivers, blocking the car like it is done in Europe would be great: Car is blocked with a mechanical system, a photo is taken, and the driver must call a special team that will come (in a few hours!) to remove the device and cash the fine, that should be IMO 3 to 5000 rubles. Like this only drivers will stop parking their cars anywhere.

And after all, if people have no place to park their lovely car, there are buses and metro! and gypsy cabs!



Funny you should say that about Gypsy, I have PM's from others that say the same thing. Russian and expat.

Willy
23-07-2010, 10:44
Ok there is no interest speaking about a gypsy, after all! He knows all, is the best, Russians are VERY happy he came here to teach us, etc etc. Old music...

Parking is IMO the source of accidents too, drivers stop anywhere really, I saw even yesterday in third line on the sadovoe koltso, so buses could not go! Dear Luzhkov should do something against these drivers, blocking the car like it is done in Europe would be great: Car is blocked with a mechanical system, a photo is taken, and the driver must call a special team that will come (in a few hours!) to remove the device and cash the fine, that should be IMO 3 to 5000 rubles. Like this only drivers will stop parking their cars anywhere.

And after all, if people have no place to park their lovely car, there are buses and metro! and gypsy cabs!




I lived hear Pr. Mir and people were always parking on the tram lines and the trams could not past.


I think that driver are getting better, they let you cross now in cross walks.

Willy
23-07-2010, 10:47
I think this song could some up how some drive here,


YouTube- Deep Purple - Highway Star Lyrics

Uncle Pasha
23-07-2010, 10:53
Here is a summary of my Russian driving since 93


Ive been driving here since 93. Of these two years were with IDL. Most driving was in Moscow, and in Tver region, with a few trips to Ryazan, Kaluga, Vladimir, Suzdal, and one trip to the White Sea (over 1000 miles north from Moscow). Here is a summary of my story as a Russian driver. Hope it helps you see things as they are.

The cars where

An old Zhiguli. It was stopped a lot. Once I counted 6 checked per night but that was wild early 90s. No bribes/fines even that night. Minimal bribes of fines overall. Something comparable to a few beers. One there was attempt to take the license place off that cost me an equivalent of $50-70. The reason was badly expired safety check. That was the most expensive bribe that year.
An old Zaporozhets. That one was not stopped at all despite repeated violations. It took me a while to learn to notice traffic lights and signs that in the 90s where all over the place except where you expect to see them. So I regularly ran red lights. I think the cops were puzzled by a combination of the lowly Zapor and an IDL. At the end I drove with the IDL expired and was still let go. Not that I suggest you do but the cops have a certain sympathy for losers. Learn to play one.
Two Renaults 11. An uneventful period . An alcohol test once or twice. No major deal even if youve been drinking a bit. So they send you to the hospital. You sit there waiting for a couple of hours, which is enough for the last traces of alcohol to disappear. Please note that Im talking traces. Being caught drunk drunk is at least 5 th. roubles but can be as much as 40. Dont.
An old Volga. Stopped once every few days. The biggest bribe in 2-3 years was 500 roubles when it turned out that my driving license had expired.
Toyota Master Ace. Two speeding fines in a year, 300 roubles each. 3-4 document checks a year. Driven daily in Moscow and the Moscow region. One clear attempt to scare me into paying a lot. My usual response of profound indifference did the trick. Not a rouble paid to the crook cop.
An old Land Rover. A foreign citizen friend of mine had to pay a $20 type bribe when using it. The cops claimed that his license was cancelled, which was not true as it turned out. I recently for fined 100 roubles after a threat of taking my license away. The key is to react to such threats calmly. I told the GAI guys that they can do whatever they see fit while I will actually enjoy a break from driving. The usually make you sit in their car and maintain a pause, waiting you to come up with an offer. My offer is a few beers if it helps to put them into a better mood. Got a 100 rouble protocol instead with instructions **not** to bother paying it because small fines from Tver will not be processed in Moscow.

Passengers

My passengers often were and are visible minorities. I dont remember a single time they where hassled. Once a hitchhiker was asked for his passport. I regularly meet people at airports and many of my passengers are obvious foreigners who could be fleeced yet they are not. No attention from the police whatsoever to my obviously foreign passengers. I recall a funny episode when I was almost detained when travelling here under a visa. On hearing a story why Im in an area where foreigners are not allowed the cop dismissed me as a ***** which I probably am. Here it often helps to present yourself as a loser and a fool. The cops are, despite bribes and power, looked down at. The true nature of their game is to get back at you. Dont play that game. Many drivers, and foreigners especially, do, without even realizing that they are teasing the cops and other authorities. Be a tired old fool to get things done here.

Others experience

I did a quick review among my friends and colleagues. Mind you most of them drive below average cars. Most of them have 1-2 stories to tell but it appears that traffic police is not a source of difficulty. Those with a calm friendly attitude dont get into trouble. The younger ones, yes, start and argument. No, arguing is not a way to go. Staying calm and indifferent is.

Crime

The worst case was when a worker got drunk and took a car for a ride. A window broken once but nothing taken in a bad area of Ryazan. A watch stolen when I forgot lock the car. Four tired punctured recently in Moscow. A degenerate was found making pathetic attempts to open the car with a pocket knife. Spread it for over 15 years and you see that crime is not a factor.

Statistics

I have a book on Russian road statistics. At the moment it is loaned but I should get it back in September. Ill share some of the data. The ballpark figure is that here your chances of death are 4-6 times here than at home given the same number of miles.

Language

Well-chosen 40 phrases will get you across the country. What we dont always realize is how routine our communication usually is. By telephone you can always access someone who can translate/explain things for you. Ive seen dozens of travelers with no Russian whatsoever who had the knack of explaining themselves. Not an issue with the right attitude.

Service

Breakdowns are common. Vehicles literally fall apart on Russian roads. On the other hand, once you get far enough from Moscow, you can count on someone stopping to helps and to tow you to the nearest service.

The subjective side

Thats the only inarguably real factor against driving in Russia is that it is an unpleasant high-tension exercise.

Hope the above go-on helps is giving you a complete picture.

Pasha

Viola
23-07-2010, 10:56
I have driven here, Moscow, for 4 years and only ever had trouble when I had a girlfriend with darker skin. We would be stopped EVERY time we took the car and fleeced for one thing or another. 5000 rouble "fine" every time.


I can't imagine the sort of violation that you've done to be fined 5000. What was the reason? I had never paid as much in fines though I've been stopped not that often. I remeber doing a gross violatin (driving under the ban at Leninsky prospect right under the very nose of the GAI officer) and was prepared to pay because I recognised my mistake. He just accepted my apologies.
I remember my neighbor told that he paid 14000 but he was driving completely drunk and GAI was going to take his license. Obviously it was a serious reason to pay that much. But 5000 for dark skin sorry, sounds like expats mythology to me.

Gypsy
23-07-2010, 11:13
"You have to be myopic and frankly a little dim"

This is your opinion and opinions like this are best kept to yourself, they are insulting, rude, and uncalled for. You like to talk about how rude people are on this forum, well why don't you lead by example instead of trying to make it a fact.
Willy - you have attacked me personally every time I have posted. I have never attacked or insulted you. I have criticised what you have written, that is entirely different. It is called debate..

Go back a couple of weeks and you will see that. Save yourself some time and go back in this thread - you began attacking me when I had not even addressed a comment towards you.

The purpose of this forum is to hear people's opinion, so "No, thank you" I will not keep them to myself.

I have never insulted Russia or its people, and in fact never insulted you. I have criticised what you have written. That is a different thing. If it upsets you try responding to what people actually write instead of your preconceived notion of what you think they meant.

You insulted me in this and another thread for saying that cops take bribes - yet you admit it above. That is called hypocrisy Willy.

TolkoRaz
23-07-2010, 11:17
Trying to stay on course and avoiding accidents, as well as insults if that is possible, I think that another contributing factor is that a good number of those driving on the road have not taken any formalised instruction or training.

And, of course, like most qualifications etc, many bought their driving permits having had no instruction whatsover.

Lastly, it is not uncommon for many to drink and drive; this includes the 'morning after' which can be just as dangerous slowing reactions and impairing judgement.

All in all, its a recipe for disaster :book:

TolkoRaz
23-07-2010, 11:24
Guys & Gals :)

IMHO, there is no room or necessity for attacking one another and carrying on old arguments from other threads.

This Thread is not in the 'Expat Cafe', it is in a folder about 'Driving in Russia' -Can I suggest that we attempt to provide information and our opinions about 'Driving in Russia' hopefully answering the thread originator's query. After all, that is the purpose of having separate folders!

If necessary, verbal spats should be conducted by PM or should remain in the Expat Cafe!

Thank You! :)

Gypsy
23-07-2010, 11:24
I can't imagine the sort of violation that you've done to be fined 5000. What was the reason? I had never paid as much in fines though I've been stopped not that often. I remeber doing a gross violatin (driving under the ban at Leninsky prospect right under the very nose of the GAI officer) and was prepared to pay because I recognised my mistake. He just accepted my apologies.
I remember my neighbor told that he paid 14000 but he was driving completely drunk and GAI was going to take his license. Obviously it was a serious reason to pay that much. But 5000 for dark skin sorry, sounds like expats mythology to me.

The fines are levied according to the cops view of your ability to pay. The more expensive the car the higher the fine. One cop tried 12,000 roubles for driving while drunk. I wasn't and the cop knew it, he wouldn't even test me. I ended up paying 5,000 because the cop stopped a man driving a Lexus (on the assumption that he might speak English: he did) and this russian guy negotiated on my behalf and got the cop to accept 5,000.

The excuse for stopping me has always been traffic related, they are not dim enough to say that they stopped me because my partner had dark skin; but they would always do a document check - even though it is illegal.

You can dismiss it as a myth - that is your prerogative. But I have no reason to lie, and haven't.

Have a nice day :)

SV1973a
23-07-2010, 11:34
The fines are levied according to the cops view of your ability to pay. The more expensive the car the higher the fine. One cop tried 12,000 roubles for driving while drunk. I wasn't and the cop knew it, he wouldn't even test me. I ended up paying 5,000 because the cop stopped a man driving a Lexus (on the assumption that he might speak English: he did) and this russian guy negotiated on my behalf and got the cop to accept 5,000.

I can understand that you pay a bribe when you violate some traffic regulation, BUT why would you pay a single copeck, if you did not do anything wrong ???

Willy
23-07-2010, 11:39
Willy - you have attacked me personally every time I have posted. I have never attacked or insulted you. I have criticised what you have written, that is entirely different. It is called debate..

Go back a couple of weeks and you will see that. Save yourself some time and go back in this thread - you began attacking me when I had not even addressed a comment towards you.

The purpose of this forum is to hear people's opinion, so "No, thank you" I will not keep them to myself.

I have never insulted Russia or its people, and in fact never insulted you. I have criticised what you have written. That is a different thing. If it upsets you try responding to what people actually write instead of your preconceived notion of what you think they meant.

You insulted me in this and another thread for saying that cops take bribes - yet you admit it above. That is called hypocrisy Willy.




You can write here what you like but calling someone "myopic and frankly dim" is insulting. So don't say you've "never" insulted me" and yes if you insult me I may insult you right back, it's not how you feel about what you say, it's how the person you say it to feels.

And no I said you make it sound like all cops take them but as this thread goes on you will see that they don't

You know it's your know it all tone is what bugs most people here.

Gypsy
23-07-2010, 11:44
You can write here what you like but calling someone "myopic and frankly dim" is insulting. So don't say you've "never" insulted me" and yes if you insult me I may insult you right back, it's not how you feel about what you say, it's how the person you say it to feels.

And no I said you make it sound like all cops take them but as this thread goes on you will see that they don't

You know it's your know it all tone is what bugs most people here.

And I did not call you myopic and dim - unless you are owning up to believing that a couple of observations of Russian life that have not been positive mean I hate Russia.

If you are not doing so then by definition I could not have insulted you.

An insult would have been - Willy, you are myopic and dim. Do you see the difference?

Willy
23-07-2010, 11:57
And I did not call you myopic and dim - unless you are owning up to believing that a couple of observations of Russian life that have not been positive mean I hate Russia.

If you are not doing so then by definition I could not have insulted you.

An insult would have been - Willy, you are myopic and dim. Do you see the difference?



No, I don't, you imply that anyone who would think, so you meant me too, see the difference? It's the whole tone of your post.

Uncle Pasha
23-07-2010, 12:58
Wish I hadn't clicked the play button. No driving for me for another week after viewing this. All the places are just too familiar. What's particularly saddening is that most of these accedents are a result of just being aggressive and not taking a quarter of a second to look around. I went through two months of boat operator courses recently and was shocked that safety, looking forward to possible dangers, or just common sense where not part of the process. My rating of this country is at all times low.

JanC
23-07-2010, 13:17
While I don't suggest there aren't a lot of dangerous drivers in Russia, a video compilation doesn't exactly give a realistic view of the actual danger out there. There's plenty of boneheaded accidents to be found on youtube that take place in the US or elsewhere. Be on your guard, and don't assume that just because another driver should stop, they will.
It's impossible to protect yourself from all dangers on the road but that's true everywhere. Russia's just a bit worse than usual.

Gypsy
23-07-2010, 13:22
While I don't suggest there aren't a lot of dangerous drivers in Russia, a video compilation doesn't exactly give a realistic view of the actual danger out there. There's plenty of boneheaded accidents to be found on youtube that take place in the US or elsewhere. Be on your guard, and don't assume that just because another driver should stop, they will.
It's impossible to protect yourself from all dangers on the road but that's true everywhere. Russia's just a bit worse than usual.

Indeed.

If you can drive in London, Paris or Brussels then Moscow will be OK for you.

Baron
23-07-2010, 14:33
Take a chill pill everyone! :) All advice and comments welcome. I'll have a nice car and many asian friends who come to visit me, so keen to know all sides of the story.

Zingo - agree with you about fining people for red lights and double/tripple parking - would certainly solve a lot of problems... But equally, have to accept that thats part of the charm of the place.

One question - paying the bribes is there an accepted way of doing it in a culturally sensitive way? Or is it pretty open and just 'here ya go'.?

Willy
23-07-2010, 14:51
Take a chill pill everyone! :) All advice and comments welcome. I'll have a nice car and many asian friends who come to visit me, so keen to know all sides of the story.

Zingo - agree with you about fining people for red lights and double/tripple parking - would certainly solve a lot of problems... But equally, have to accept that thats part of the charm of the place.

One question - paying the bribes is there an accepted way of doing it in a culturally sensitive way? Or is it pretty open and just 'here ya go'.?



No it's not open, you need to get into the cops car and do it there, or you can just put it in the documents you give them if your in a hurry.

Gypsy
23-07-2010, 14:57
Take a chill pill everyone! :) All advice and comments welcome. I'll have a nice car and many asian friends who come to visit me, so keen to know all sides of the story.

Zingo - agree with you about fining people for red lights and double/tripple parking - would certainly solve a lot of problems... But equally, have to accept that thats part of the charm of the place.

One question - paying the bribes is there an accepted way of doing it in a culturally sensitive way? Or is it pretty open and just 'here ya go'.?

If you are too open about it you could get in trouble. be guided by them.

Willy is correct though that the usual practice is to get in the back of the police car and place the money on the seat. You must never give the money - hand to hand - to the officer.

Some police cars have video cameras in them to stop this though.

zingo
23-07-2010, 17:24
I can't imagine the sort of violation that you've done to be fined 5000. What was the reason? I had never paid as much in fines though I've been stopped not that often. I remeber doing a gross violatin (driving under the ban at Leninsky prospect right under the very nose of the GAI officer) and was prepared to pay because I recognised my mistake. He just accepted my apologies.
I remember my neighbor told that he paid 14000 but he was driving completely drunk and GAI was going to take his license. Obviously it was a serious reason to pay that much. But 5000 for dark skin sorry, sounds like expats mythology to me.

That is just gypsy's paranoia, he is famous for this!

zingo
23-07-2010, 17:26
Willy - you have attacked me personally every time I have posted. I have never attacked or insulted you. I have criticised what you have written, that is entirely different. It is called debate..

Your way to debate is to shout at RACISM and to attack PERSONALLY persons every time they do not think like you. Like you did with me, saying I am racist, that I make and made threats (to you and others) under another name, etc etc. That is called paranoia, AND stupidity.

zingo
23-07-2010, 17:28
No it's not open, you need to get into the cops car and do it there, or you can just put it in the documents you give them if your in a hurry.

Usually I ask the cop "and maybe you could go and pay in Sberbank for me, I have not a lot of time", it is enough for he understands, then I let about 50% of the fine price, like if it fell from my pocket, in the cops' car.

alouette
23-07-2010, 20:58
It seems that sailing might be dangerous as well. Has anybody heard of a girl killed by a yacht because of careless sailing (came to close to the swimming area)?

Willy
23-07-2010, 21:07
It seems that sailing might be dangerous as well. Has anybody heard of a girl killed by a yacht because of careless sailing (came to close to the swimming area)?





This just happened in Moscow?

SV1973a
23-07-2010, 21:09
This just happened in Moscow?

Yes, a couple of swimmers were asking the skipper to make some waves for them. The skipper lost control and a young girl (in her 20s) was chopped up by the screw.

alouette
23-07-2010, 21:10
Yes, it it's been a programme on the 1st channel today.

Willy
23-07-2010, 21:13
Yes, a couple of swimmers were asking the skipper to make some waves for them. The skipper lost control and a young girl (in her 20s) was chopped up by the screw.



Were they drunk? the girls or the driver?

alouette
23-07-2010, 21:14
She was just 25. A nice girl, judging by the pictures. I wish they would punish not only the captain but also the owners who triggered the whole thing

SV1973a
23-07-2010, 21:14
Were they drunk? the girls or the driver?

I don`t think so. It was just a very tragic accident.

alouette
23-07-2010, 21:15
the owners were drunk. There are witnesses to it. But of course, as usual, if you have money you'll go away with anything :(((((

alouette
23-07-2010, 21:16
I don`t think so. It was just a very tragic accident.

The owners were drunk everybody said it.

Willy
23-07-2010, 21:21
In the U.S just about everybody was drunk when out on boats, that's what they were for, go out to sea and drink.

I boss I had used to take us out on his boat when the weather was hot like this and buy a lot of beer, we'd just go way out to sea and drink and swim the rest of the day.

tvadim133
23-07-2010, 21:28
I don`t think so. It was just a very tragic accident.

I think, it is not an accident, it was a crime (the video has been one day before the captain was found).

YouTube- Пьяные яхтсмены убили девушку и скрылись с места ЧП

alouette
23-07-2010, 21:31
I think, it is not an accident, it was a crime (the video has been one day before the captain was found).

YouTube- Пьяные яхтсмены убили девушку и скрылись с места ЧП (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uotMBGFd7f4)

You are right 100 per cent. It was a crime!

LarushkaKorol
26-07-2010, 15:13
my father and brother are drivers. they drive foods from east to west. i don;t remember that say about crime.

tvadim133
26-07-2010, 15:17
my father and brother are drivers. they drive foods from east to west. i don;t remember that say about crime.

We meant, the tradegic accident-crime on the beach with an yacht and a young girl, which happened last week.

Hellfire
02-08-2010, 17:28
Being a pedestrian in Russia is much more dangerous than driving:9456:

mikegulf
02-08-2010, 17:42
I found that driving in Russia was quite "unique". Most of the roads where I visit are usually not in the best shape but then again I am usually out in the middle of the country and not Moscow or such so I can't say what their roads are like.

The main road (M7) from Kazan to Elabuga is nicknamed "The Highway of Death" if that gives you any idea. It takes 3 hours to travel just a little over 200 km.

Generally speaking from my experiences, russian drivers are fairly aggressive compared to other european countries I have driven in. Driving there takes some getting used to initially.

andrehstewart
02-08-2010, 17:54
You also need to have all your docs in order as you will get arrested. Yet when you do they'll still find something wrong. Cheap car usually have more problems than expensive ones so the price is not the issue so much...

Cooldude
02-08-2010, 18:27
I've read the road trip russia bible 'The Linger Longer: Driving the Trans-Siberian', but how dangerous is it driving in russia in a really nice car?

Is it ok to drive in Russia? I've heard they have a very high accident rate. I'm also concerned about crime in Russia. If anyone has driven in russia, or can give me some advise it would be massively appreciated

thanks :)

It is Ok to drive in Russia, millions of people do it every day. Crime and accident rate is rather high, but being a safe and reasonable driver yourself you can greatly reduce the possibility of any mishaps. If you've ever driven a car in Mexico you can expect something quite similar in Russia. Rural roads tend to be bad and quite dangerous, and my advice would be to use them in the daytime until you've settled in a bit in the new country. Driving a "really nice car" may mean higher bribe expectations from the traffic police. It is also advisable to get the car insured.

Hope this helps

splinter64
07-08-2010, 14:02
I have driven in Moscow "on and off" for about 7 years - generally I have not had any problems.

Before this I drove in the Middle East for many years - Saudi, UAE, Egypt / Cairo.

Cairo is the craziest place I have ever driven - but traffic is generally slow and ... you expect the craziness.

In Moscow maybe 90% of people drive sensibly, 8% are a bit stupid and 2% are insane - but you never know when the insane ones are going to turn up. You may go for days or weeks when everything is OK.

I have not driven outside of Moscow - but have seen some of the cities in Siberia and travelled on some roads between major and not-so major towns.

Siberian towns generally seemed quieter (no surprises).

As in any very large country - be very careful travelling "out of town". If you get into an accident thru no fault of your own - and first aid is a long way away, you will be in big trouble.

In short - be very careful. Good luck.

waxyweller
07-08-2010, 16:59
I've read the road trip russia bible 'The Linger Longer: Driving the Trans-Siberian', but how dangerous is it driving in russia in a really nice car?

Is it ok to drive in Russia? I've heard they have a very high accident rate. I'm also concerned about crime in Russia. If anyone has driven in russia, or can give me some advise it would be massively appreciated

thanks :)

Accidents occur because most of them don't obey common rules, and some drunk, if you are talking about road ,they have nice and big roads..but yet accident happens..:10475: ..and if U are talking about travelling i am not sure that is dangerous but U may get alot of tickets for over speeding cus the road is free and U would want to enjoy ur nice car..
ABOUT CRIME - there is crime in all countries .. in the United States is higher than Russia.. so don't worry..U are safe ..:10475:

Lidya
31-08-2010, 10:30
Not at all

eplesner
07-09-2010, 17:40
Are we sure you have no other motives?

You seem not to like Russia or Russians.

I recently was lost in central Moscow. I asked a policeman for directions (in Russian). His reply was to check my visa and passport. Afterwards I asked again, and he replied that he was not a tourist guide.

Then I asked an old woman selling fruits on the road. She smiled and pointed to the next intersection. The main entrance was 400m away.

I do love Russia, but foreigners are not always welcome.

MissAnnElk
07-09-2010, 18:30
I recently was lost in central Moscow. I asked a policeman for directions (in Russian). His reply was to check my visa and passport. Afterwards I asked again, and he replied that he was not a tourist guide.

THAT's funny.

I never drove in Moscow because I was sure I would not be able to read the signs fast enough . . . until a very wise French friend pointed out that a GPS solves all that. Duh-oh!

As for crime, other than petty crime (pick pockets), I found Moscow VERY safe. But I lived on the Garden Ring and hung out in the center. I was FAR more worried about being hit by a car than being mugged or otherwise assaulted.

isifun
07-09-2010, 21:44
it is dangerous everywhere but in the mean time Moscow is the worst !!!!!

is4fun
07-09-2010, 22:21
it is dangerous everywhere but in the mean time Moscow is the worst !!!!!

Not a little close to my handle? If the mods do not mind then I should take up the handle MizzAnnElk?

lukamagnotta
21-09-2010, 22:12
Yes I drove in Moscow and Tolyetti aswell as Caucas;s in Nazran ... the roads are poor condition and u must speak Russian if you need help.

joakimforsberg
23-09-2010, 22:09
very dangerous

Jean
28-09-2010, 09:40
do anyone know how to get a driver licence in Moscow?

krolik49
28-09-2010, 16:47
Driving here is insane ! If you do bring an expensive car here, make sure your car insurance will cover damages to your car in Russia. After 5 minutes on the road here you will see what I mean. Not worth the risk!

takedown
07-10-2010, 21:50
What your should know:
1)Roads are poor and off-road car would be much better for safety and driving(there are a lot off-road cars in Moscow so if you get in a accident it would be cool to have a heavy off-road car too chevy tahoe would be the safest i think(3.3 ton))
2)There are some bandit types on road especially in premium cars(like BMW X5) so if you cut-off or not let him pass by they can stop your and trying to "teach" you. The best thing to do is lock you doors and call the cops
3) Have full insurance(KASKO in Russia) this save you a lot of headache.
4) Many people don't follow rules like change lines without blinker or speeding. Don't drive in left line unless your really need to. If everyone speeding your should too or drive in right line that would be safe for everyone.
5)Have important phones with you like insurance agent, truck for evacuation, official dealer.
6)Fuel is bad and cars that require good fuel can be broken.
7)In Moscow there are very high traffic(one of the highest in the world) so travel by car is not really efficient. Also there are small parking zones especially in center so this would be a big problem too.
8)If your stopped by GAI(road police) be ready they try to provoke your for a bribe. So it would be nice to have a cash with you.

It's not really that scary for driving but sure it's have some special attitude.

barry
04-11-2010, 22:56
need to be alert, that's all

amigoo2
18-11-2010, 18:27
very dangerous

creditcrunch
18-11-2010, 20:18
I've read the road trip russia bible 'The Linger Longer: Driving the Trans-Siberian', but how dangerous is it driving in russia in a really nice car?

Is it ok to drive in Russia? I've heard they have a very high accident rate. I'm also concerned about crime in Russia. If anyone has driven in russia, or can give me some advise it would be massively appreciated

thanks :)

Its very very very very very dangerous. Its safer to fly upside down in a propeller plane, flown by a blind and deaf pilot than it is to drive in Moscow. My advice get some roller blades.

tvadim133
18-11-2010, 21:55
Its very very very very very dangerous. Its safer to fly upside down in a propeller plane, flown by a blind and deaf pilot than it is to drive in Moscow. My advice get some roller blades.

Never had such kind of experience, described by you, but after having been driving here for about 12 years, now I know, how to fly upside down in a properlle plane with a blind pilot.....

creditcrunch
19-11-2010, 08:49
Never had such kind of experience, described by you, but after having been driving here for about 12 years, now I know, how to fly upside down in a properlle plane with a blind pilot.....

After one day on the roads in Moscow my hair fell out from fear. :)

tvadim133
19-11-2010, 15:45
After one day on the roads in Moscow my hair fell out from fear. :)

You are very sensitive, to my mind, or just not very experiences in driving!

Well, if they fell from out your head so fast, there can be some other reasons! :)

creditcrunch
19-11-2010, 16:18
You are very sensitive, to my mind, or just not very experiences in driving!

Well, if they fell from out your head so fast, there can be some other reasons! :)

Sarcasm and irony the lowest or best form of wit depending on your sense of humor. Driving in Moscow is fine if you take care the only real danger is teh traffic!

Salix
19-11-2010, 17:57
I've been driving in Russia for about 6 months now and I can honestly say that I've never had such a bad driving experience. The roads are third world and most Russians drive without the slightest respect or regard for anyone else.
I have extensive driving experience in Europe, Peru, Colombia, Costa Rica and the U.S. The only place where, in my opinion, the roads and drivers are worse than Russia is Ukraine.
There is one advantage to driving in Russia; the price of petrol is cheap.

tvadim133
19-11-2010, 19:31
Sarcasm and irony the lowest or best form of wit depending on your sense of humor. Driving in Moscow is fine if you take care the only real danger is teh traffic!

Let's consider mine to be the best one!

:)

creditcrunch
19-11-2010, 20:59
I've been driving in Russia for about 6 months now and I can honestly say that I've never had such a bad driving experience. The roads are third world and most Russians drive without the slightest respect or regard for anyone else.
I have extensive driving experience in Europe, Peru, Colombia, Costa Rica and the U.S. The only place where, in my opinion, the roads and drivers are worse than Russia is Ukraine.
There is one advantage to driving in Russia; the price of petrol is cheap.

What annoys me the most is there are no on the road manners, little no signals (indicating) when cutting in front of you and no thanks when you let a driver go in front of you. Its very rude and gets me really angry.

I also hate the black cars with blue lights that think they are 'VIP' and just cut off the road so they can get to the Kremlin for their buffet or banquet lunch. Its criminal .....and in fact many of them are !!! There is the irony! :vampire:

Salix
20-11-2010, 00:37
What annoys me the most is there are no on the road manners, little no signals (indicating) when cutting in front of you and no thanks when you let a driver go in front of you. Its very rude and gets me really angry.

I also hate the black cars with blue lights that think they are 'VIP' and just cut off the road so they can get to the Kremlin for their buffet or banquet lunch. Its criminal .....and in fact many of them are !!! There is the irony! :vampire:

I know what you mean about the black cars. I have a special name for their blue lights. I call them "fairy lights". I don't know why I chose that name, but whenever I see them in my mirrors, I tell my wife "here come the fairy lights" and she knows what I mean.
I have noticed that most drivers that have an expensive car think they are due special treatment on the roads. It's as though they are saying "hey, can't you see I'm driving a BMW?". Whenever I see a car ignoring the rules, which no one follow, I can almost guarantee it's a BMW, Mercedes, or a Range Rover. Who do they think they are? They're probably rushing to meet their partners in crime who need to share the proceeds of their latest bribe. I mean, they don't appear to do any work; otherwise this country wouldn't be in the state that it's in.

creditcrunch
20-11-2010, 08:00
I know what you mean about the black cars. I have a special name for their blue lights. I call them "fairy lights". I don't know why I chose that name, but whenever I see them in my mirrors, I tell my wife "here come the fairy lights" and she knows what I mean.
I have noticed that most drivers that have an expensive car think they are due special treatment on the roads. It's as though they are saying "hey, can't you see I'm driving a BMW?". Whenever I see a car ignoring the rules, which no one follow, I can almost guarantee it's a BMW, Mercedes, or a Range Rover. Who do they think they are? They're probably rushing to meet their partners in crime who need to share the proceeds of their latest bribe. I mean, they don't appear to do any work; otherwise this country wouldn't be in the state that it's in.

People in those cars are not all bad guys but you are totally right. These type of drivers in the big, black high off the road, 4X4's or Mercs do drive like arrogant **cks. They drive at high speed, over Zebras and over lights. One wonders what they carry in the trunk (boot) a body or weapons, drugs?

Don"t use your klaxon (horn) I have heard of people being beaten, shouted at and shown a gun by drivers who are thugs. Let it go. Life is to short and you could get hurt. :10241: :boxing:

lkragins
04-02-2011, 16:51
You would prefer not doing it in the big cities, like Moscow, Nizhny or StPetersburg on an every day basis, if you are not local. It requires being patient and impertinent at the same time. If you are good at reckless driving, than, probably, you can survive here. Otherwise, use taxi - it is pretty cheap. Going out in the country for a ride on a weekend, thoroughly planned and accompanied by native speakers is though possible.

matti
04-02-2011, 20:47
I've been driving in Russia for about 6 months now and I can honestly say that I've never had such a bad driving experience. The roads are third world and most Russians drive without the slightest respect or regard for anyone else.
I have extensive driving experience in Europe, Peru, Colombia, Costa Rica and the U.S. The only place where, in my opinion, the roads and drivers are worse than Russia is Ukraine.
There is one advantage to driving in Russia; the price of petrol is cheap.

I have driven only a few times in Moscow so far and once outside, but I must say that I my first impressions are quite positive, especially after all what I have heard. The parking, traffic jams and orientation in Moscow are obvoiously a problem, but I found the driving itself ok. It looks crazy and chaotic when you are not driving, but its quite easy to mingle in it once you are behind the wheel.. and I have to admit that a part of me even enjoys it :) Driving in Europe is so tied up with restrictions these days that it feels like a nice change. (well, i havent seen any serious accidents yet)
I did not have any feelings of disregard or disrespect from other drivers - quite on the opposite, ppl would even slow down to let you change lanes etc. Perhaps it helps if you a girl driving on foreing plates, but I really felt that the drivers were quite nice and calm. Well, there were two exceptions who were quite hotheaded when I was quited scared (one didnt like my choice of parking place and the other my taking over maneuvre), but you can see such assholes everywhere.

Also, contrary to my expectations, the police was not interested in me at all. I was afraid they would stop me to solicit bribes, but they were mainly after old cars or the shiny ones. An ordinary car is probably a good option for this.

Well I hope I dont have to correct my view after some more miles on the roads :)

IanC
10-02-2011, 10:07
Moscow traffic's a lot like Moscow weather. Wild!

dalei
04-03-2011, 17:59
Having driven my car with German licence plates 2 times to Russia and back again and in between for quite a long time I mostly had good experience.

Whenever you get stopped you should have only a small amount of money visible to the cops - if you don't have more money they usually are fine with what you got.

Sometimes it's even advantageous if you can pretend not to understand any Russian: They would have to take you to your embassy which is too much trouble if they in fact only want your money.

Always a good starting line: Can we solve this problem in place?

Learn how to put the money inside your documents so nobody else can see.
Of course it's forbidden for the cops to accept bribes so they should not be caught doing so.

My car back then was the car to be stolen most frequently in Russia. But I did not have any problems ever. Make sure you have an alarm system and insure the car with a Russian company. Usually they cover theft.

Summing it up: Not too dangerous, not too difficult, you get away easily especially if you are female and good-looking, you don't speak Russian, you prepare for being stopped and have a little amount of money ready as your way of appreciation, try not to commit the deadly sin of crossing two continous lines in the middle of the street.

Yours
dalei

Hans.KK
22-05-2011, 17:20
Had been driving i Russia for more that 10 years and can only say, to drive i citys like St. Petersburg/Moscow on daily basis, "do not do that", to much trafficjams and to many crazy peopel. Public transport is cheape and works fine.
On the other hand, to go for a ride outside the city is ok, escabe the rush hours, have your car i order (documents, tools, first aid kit, clean, etc.) then there is no problems at all.

Remember that there must be 2 to bribe, one that want to get "something", and an other to give this "something".
Be smart, do not use bribe as option number one, you just makes it more difficult/costly for the next to come. You may be the next ?

Time often cure many problems with the police, if your documents and your car are in legal condition, then wait and wait, and quite often you will go away with some strange "warning" from the police.
Ok, it do demand you to stay cool, and have the time to wait.

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 11:30
Driving in such big cities as Moscow or St-Pet is rather complicated because of the traffic, bad roads, some crazy drivers. But please be understood that not all russian drivers are crazy. Most of them also hate terrible behaviour of other drivers who dont care about other cars, rules, police, etc. I am driving in Moscow about 7 years and i will never go down to metro! Because its as overloaded as roads are, people are also very rude, impolite and there are lots of homeless people! For me its more comfortable to be in my car! Its only needed to get used to such driving condition and maybe soon you can even get pleasure! And for me its easier to keep my good mood in the morning when i am by car rather than i use metro.

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 11:53
The metro is awesome. It goes everywhere. It's faster than driving and shows a great view of the populace of Moscow.

Ofcouse its normal when some people use metro and will never refuse it, and others drive cars and are rather happy. The big advantage of using metro for foreigners is that moscow metro is so beautiful! Its like a museum.

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 12:12
No. The big advantage is that it's efficient.

Dont be just a consumer, try to get pleasure))

DavidB
25-07-2011, 12:22
No. The big advantage is that it's efficient.

And all of those pheromones wafting around in the air just adds to the atmosphere in Summer. :D

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 12:27
You said "big advantage"...

There are 100s of reasons the metro is better than driving...

Its no need to argue on this topic, because on the one hand i willnt be able to convice you of using car and on the other - you will never convince me of using metro.
More over the topic is - "How dangerous is it driving in Russia?" and i just shared my experience about trafic, roads, etc.

DavidB
25-07-2011, 12:32
More over the topic is - "How dangerous is it driving in Russia?"

You're right. And the correct answer is: he who has the largest/heaviest car wins!

DavidB
25-07-2011, 12:35
or the blue bucket...

They usually have the largest and heaviest car anyway, so I didn't have to mention it. :D

Judge
25-07-2011, 12:36
Its no need to argue on this topic, because on the one hand i willnt be able to convice you of using car and on the other - you will never convince me of using metro.
More over the topic is - "How dangerous is it driving in Russia?" and i just shared my experience about trafic, roads, etc.

Hi Julia, you're right the topic is about ' How dangerous is it driving in Russia?',you need to remember there are some hardcore metro lovers on this forum and they will do everything to defend their beloved metro.


Back on topic, I've driven a few times here and must say that 90% of the drivers are ok, just a few idiots who think nothing of cutting in or zig zagging their way through the traffic without warning.
Julia,I understand people like you, if you have used the metro all your life and now have the chance to sit in a comfy car with AC,then there's no going back for you.

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 12:55
Hi Julia, you're right the topic is about ' How dangerous is it driving in Russia?',you need to remember there are some hardcore metro lovers on this forum and they will do everything to defend their beloved metro.


Back on topic, I've driven a few times here and must say that 90% of the drivers are ok, just a few idiots who think nothing of cutting in or zig zagging their way through the traffic without warning.
Julia,I understand people like you, if you have used the metro all your life and now have the chance to sit in a comfy car with AC,then there's no going back for you.

Exactly!
Ofcourse there mustnt be struggle between metro lovers and drivers! Everyone can choose more suitable and comfortable option!
But as this topic is devoted to DRIVING so people who visit want to read some suggestions and comment on it!
For info - recently i ve changed my driving license becasue my old one has expired. Uhhhh, russian bureaucratic system kills me. Everything that is connected with official docs receipt is absolutely complicated. If someone will face with license change i can explain where to go and what to do. But the main advice is to be patient!!)

justbe
25-07-2011, 13:06
You said "big advantage"...

There are 100s of reasons the metro is better than driving...

Anyway everything depends on how much time one is going to spend getting to the necessary place. Sometimes it is 15-20 min with the metro or 1-2 hours with the car, or 30 minutes with the car against 1,5 hours with the metro. No need to be extreme it is not good according to Darvin.

mrzuzzo
25-07-2011, 13:43
Driving in Russia is hardly enjoyable in heavy traffic and on crappy roads, not to mention that Russia has one of the highest fatality rates in the world for developed countries.

The only time that I really enjoy driving here is at night because I can get from place to place faster than the metro.

Driving outside of the Moscow region is generally a nightmare and involves dodging massive craters in the road and swerving drunks in crappy Ladas.

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 15:22
There are also traffic games in metro...

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 15:40
But that doesn't stop the trains from moving...

But it doesnt mean that you can get in wagon at a first, second or third attempt.....you like to enjoy thick air or feels man's hand on your buttocks (hope you dont))) or faint away because of the heat???its doubtful pleasure even if its efficient!

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 16:14
Personally, I enjoy the crowds. It is a great way to see people from all walks of life. Ages, income, religion, race, sex...

So....we all choose the most favourable option for ourselves.
The main point is to enjoy)

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 16:23
The main point is to get from Place A to Place B quickly. Less travelling time to work is more time in bed.

For me not.....i prefer comfort.

mrzuzzo
25-07-2011, 16:36
But it doesnt mean that you can get in wagon at a first, second or third attempt.....you like to enjoy thick air or feels man's hand on your buttocks (hope you dont))) or faint away because of the heat???its doubtful pleasure even if its efficient!

I've never been in a situation where I wasn't able to get into the train on the first attempt... and to me 15min of "suffering" is much better than 2 hours of being mad and trying to squeeze through traffic.

And before you blame me for being a metro lover, I actually have a car, but I do not drive if taking the metro saves me time because, personally, I think that's just stupid.

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 16:42
I've never been in a situation where I wasn't able to get into the train on the first attempt... and to me 15min of "suffering" is much better than 2 hours of being mad and trying to squeeze through traffic.

And before you blame me for being a metro lover, I actually have a car, but I do not drive if taking the metro saves me time because, personally, I think that's just stupid.

You didnt understand me.... i dont blame you. i dont try to persuade you to drive a car! I only want to say that its useless to urgue. We all can choose according to our demands, weather to use metro nor car.

mrzuzzo
25-07-2011, 16:47
You didnt understand me.... i dont blame you. i dont try to persuade you to drive a car! I only want to say that its useless to urgue. We all can choose according to our demands, weather to use metro nor car.

Yeah, but admit that you feel one step above the rest of the society when you don't have to take the metro with all those poor stinky people!! Am I right?

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 16:59
Yeah, but admit that you feel one step above the rest of the society when you don't have to take the metro with all those poor stinky people!! Am I right?

No.
I dont think that only poor people use metro. And i dont consider myself to be a star above all these poor people....I just like driving very much and i am not affraid of horrible trafic. Maybe because the road to office takes me 1 house in the morning and 1 in the evening - and its ok for me, because using metro i will spend the same time!!! So a car - this is my choice!

soprty
25-07-2011, 17:21
or the blue bucket...

Or a motorcycle if you are insane enough...:neiner:

mrzuzzo
25-07-2011, 17:21
I just like driving very much and i am not affraid of horrible trafic.

I love driving even more than you (on my 6th or 7th car by now, participated in rally, motorsports events) and I also am not afraid of traffic, but I know through my Russian friends that driving a car has so much "prestige" associated with it here that people drive cars just so they can tell others that they drove.

What a joke.

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 17:25
I love driving even more than you (on my 6th or 7th car by now, participated in rally, motorsports events) and I also am not afraid of traffic, but I know through my Russian friends that driving a car has so much "prestige" associated with it here that people drive cars just so they can tell others that they drove.

What a joke.

For some people its a status to have a car)))
The more funny situation is when somebody siits in restaurant, for example, and put keys on the table)))

mrzuzzo
25-07-2011, 17:28
For some people its a status to have a car)))
The more funny situation is when somebody siits in restaurant, for example, and put keys on the table)))

I do that all the time. My keys are too big and I hate keeping them in my pocket.

JuliaL
25-07-2011, 17:45
I do that all the time. My keys are too big and I hate keeping them in my pocket.

Uhhh, sorry))

Bogatyr
25-07-2011, 18:37
Time often cure many problems with the police, if your documents and your car are in legal condition, then wait and wait, and quite often you will go away with some strange "warning" from the police.
Ok, it do demand you to stay cool, and have the time to wait.

This works fine if your "violation" (real or invented) is minor. But some fines are extremely severe -- 6 months suspension of license for example, for finishing a passing maneuver even just a few feet beyond the end of the "ok to pass" area. Or driving against a "brick" (do not enter), even if the sign is new/temporary due to construction and there are no warnings about the new sign. Many markings are very poor and misleading, and sometimes traffic lights are so weak you can't tell if they're lit or not, especially if the sun is shining on them.

Russian Lad
29-07-2011, 12:40
Driving in Moscow or in SPb is a joke. The metro is much faster.

soprty
29-07-2011, 12:43
Driving in Moscow or in SPb is a joke. The metro is much faster.

Driving is a joke and that's why people should ride instead...

gatwick
07-08-2011, 20:16
Driving in Moscow or in SPb is a joke. The metro is much faster.

The metro is overcrowded. If I have a choice to drive or to go to the metro I'll drive for sure

xxpatru
07-08-2011, 21:37
It CAN be really dangerous.
Accident rate is high.
Crime rate is high.
Roads are bad.
Police vielonce is high.
But still thet drive.
I don't any more. I quit driving even in Moscow.
regards
xxpatru


Is it ok to drive in Russia? I've heard they have a very high accident rate. I'm also concerned about crime in Russia. If anyone has driven in russia, or can give me some advise it would be massively appreciated

thanks :)[/QUOTE]

xnica01
07-09-2011, 00:11
Very difficult riving in Moscow, because of the traffic and the mentality of the drivers...always should be extra careful!

HSE/Environmental Pr
04-10-2011, 23:44
I've read the road trip russia bible 'The Linger Longer: Driving the Trans-Siberian', but how dangerous is it driving in russia in a really nice car?

Is it ok to drive in Russia? I've heard they have a very high accident rate. I'm also concerned about crime in Russia. If anyone has driven in russia, or can give me some advise it would be massively appreciated

thanks :)

You should have got really good driving and psychological skills in extreme and/or unknown environment (road conditions, other drivers' skills and behaviour, menthal things, some local differences - driving of locals on red and yellow light, behavioural "stranges" of pedestrians, "ethical" aspects of drivers when comes for real fighting for parkings on the streets, informal privileges of drivers of rich vehicles whatever your vehicle is - for ex. if yours is RRover you should be careful with Mazeratti, R8 or Lamborgini behind or in front of you, separate story is blinking/government and/or Oligarchs' vehicles on the roads, drivers under alcohol abusement, merely those drivers-hooligans who hate those-owners of expensive cars, those who are chasing expensive cars and intiate road incidents to get "easy" money, etc.) rather than a possession of simply "a really nice car".

BabyFirefly
06-10-2011, 18:08
I'd say yeah, driving in Moscow is terrible. I've seen some amazing (and by that I mean horrible) car accidents here, sometimes within minutes. The metro sure is crowded, but go in off peak times and it's fine. I'm not driving here again for anything in the world.

mrzuzzo
06-10-2011, 18:14
I'd say yeah, driving in Moscow is terrible. I've seen some amazing (and by that I mean horrible) car accidents here, sometimes within minutes. The metro sure is crowded, but go in off peak times and it's fine. I'm not driving here again for anything in the world.

Really? I love driving here and enjoy it as long as the traffic isn't horrible...

mikegulf
06-10-2011, 20:02
I'd rather drive in Seoul, South Korea! And if you've been there you know that's quite a statement!

quincunx55555
10-10-2011, 23:41
Enjoy!

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/may2008/gb20080529_188410.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

This is in reference to the photos in the post quoted above.

Ok, I understand what's going on with the bus. Although a poor move, the bus decided to U-turn.

What I don't get is the other picture. Everyone decided, during their commute, to not go to work that day? Spontaneous construction site appear ahead? One car decided to U-Turn and the rest followed like sheep? I don't get it!! Help! :D

Ksusha
26-10-2011, 13:37
I love driving a car!
My first car , which I bought 2 years ago, is a new Opel Astra. Moreover I've got my first experience of driving in Moscow, so in 2 months I felt enought confident driving in the center with music running from car's music center.

I think that "danger" is depended on your own risky line in doesn't matter where to drive, it depends on your confort level inside your personality.