PDA

View Full Version : PM only, why?



Boris-Kachakokof
09-05-2005, 17:26
I've got a discrepancy with the new "PM only" system!

Disadvantages:
1) Lets say someone is looking for a place to live and a perspective landlord wonders on to the site. Maybe that person doesn't want to register but just wants to get in contact with the potential renter.

2)If your a teacher advertising your services on this site, you'll get about 60% less prospects.
People who look for tutors need to learn English, what benefits do you see them acquiring from joining an expat site where certain people will rip up their mediocre English skills?

3)Same thing goes for the buy and sell section. If your moving on short notice and want to sell all your stuff in a hurry, you'll get a lot more interested people if you can just post your e-mail address. There is also something called the referral system. Where someone sends your e-mail address to their friends, neighbors, co-workers.......ect Lets say that 3 people find out about your big sale through their friends. With no direct contact info, it would be pretty fortunate if only 1 person signs up for the site and PM's you!

4)More people will join the site to get in contact with other members which can be used to increase advertising rates. However, the new members that only require the above services will artificially inflate the membership rate. So, by using the PM only system your basically saying that nominal rates are the same thing as real rates. Fair to advertisers, I think not!

Amdin, please explain your rational behind this new rule to us. If it's posted somewhere else on the site can you please provide a link. (just don't use the privacy excuse)

Thanks,

BK

mediashark
09-05-2005, 19:36
Yeah if we had a privacy issue, we wouldn't post our personal contact info in the first place. We're not that stupid. Now if you had a rule not to post other people's personal email or number, that's fair.

Boris-Kachakokof
09-05-2005, 22:48
Totally agree with you there MS!

Don't think we need protection from our self's. Posting your phone numbers in an open forum can be debated cause someone can get your personal info from it. However, posting your e-mail address should be allowed.

BK

Boris-Kachakokof
10-05-2005, 00:53
Here's another point.
Lets say your English is pretty limited and someone tells you in big bold letters to use a PM. How in the world would you know what that acronym stands for?
Some people will ask, others will leave.

Just a thought,

BK

plastique
11-05-2005, 23:10
good question...

Boris-Kachakokof
11-05-2005, 23:20
It's been up for about 4 days now and still no sign of the mods.

J.D.
11-05-2005, 23:34
It's been up for about 4 days now and still no sign of the mods.

Ad some profanity. That usually brings them out.

Amerikansky
12-05-2005, 03:44
A friend wanted to contact one landlord. I suggested he gets registered as I am not always available to PM for him. He said Good god! No thanks! Turns out, the procedure got changed and now looks like this:

1. Fill in the registration form
2. No, you don't get reqistered yet. You'll get a message that you have to confirm your email.
3. Get the confirmation email
4. Go back to the site and reconfirm your registration using the code from the email.
5. No, you don't get access yet. You'll get yet another message that your registration was hereby submitted for a third degree confirmation which is not automatic, so you'll have to wait for some days until a moderator gets to look at it.
6. Keep checking your mail box until you get yet another confirmation email.

At least one of the two things - either the registration procedure or the No phone number policy - has got to change. The two of them together are killing the whole idea of instant information exchange on the internet.

Boris-Kachakokof
12-05-2005, 04:13
Amerikansky,

Guess joining this site is as much fun as flying to the States now, looks like the hacker got em pretty spooked. A request to leave your number here will most likely be denied. For one reason or another the general feeling in the mod corner is that you'll get your identity stolen the second you post it.

I don't see what the big deal is about posting your personal details? If anything does happen, no one will be responsible but you. For one thing, your in Russia and probably wont have any legal claims against the owners/operators of the site if you some how get yourself in trouble through it. Second, you sign a disclaimer up on registering which basically says that if anything goes wrong it's your neck.

For the life of me I cant figure out why they're doing this?
It could just be a power trip, doing it because they can or maybe they want to increase traffic by having more people sign up?

Just hope they wont use the privacy excuse,

BK

PS: so what terror alert are we at now???
RED
YELLOW
GREEN

moscowmail
12-05-2005, 07:02
Good questions,

In the absence of my mods and admin guys a little explanation

We have email trawlers on this site, they copy your email and sell it a 1000 times, I know coz it happened to me.

We have weirdo’s here who call numbers continuously, this didn't happen to me, but there have been 3 occurrences that I know of.

The PM system was the only real way we could find of reducing these problems, if you have a better idea, please post it, DPG, TD, Braders or Boscoe will then assess it, if it seems good, we will try it.

Believe it or not, we are trying to improve the site for you the user, so bring it on, more comments and suggestions are more than welcome

Cheers

Len

Boris-Kachakokof
12-05-2005, 15:21
Thanks for the explanation Len.

Looks like there is a few people out there who are making life extremely difficult for the rest of us. My e-mail address has been stolen more times than I can count. The junk mail blocker works pretty well though.

Here is what I'm thinking.
Some people could really be indifferent to the fact that their e-mail could be stolen. It's bound to happen sometime, if not through this site then some where else. Like right now, I'm looking for a place to live in Moscow for the summer and it's 100 times more important to me to have the maximum amount of offers as opposed to not getting some junk mail which will be ignored in my junk box anyway. There are some people that are really being put at a huge disadvantage because of this PM only matter. So, maybe the person that wants to post their e-mail can send the mods a message with an explanation why it's very important to have their e-mail posted.

I'm not trying to cause any trouble here, very conservative person by nature. All I want is a fair assessment of this situation.

Thanks,

BK

PS: Len your busted on a double whammy, e-mail and phone number!!!!
Here is a message posted by a certain individual who does'nt practice what he preaches:)

(Edited, yes I made a mistake, no need for you to replicate it, I deleted as soon as I saw it, it was meant as a PM, even us perfect people mess up occasionally :)) (Edited MM)

mediashark
12-05-2005, 15:27
Hey why not post one of those really creepy stories about that weirdo as a sticky and have the no-email-phone as a warning or advisory rather than a rule.

DJ Biscuit
12-05-2005, 15:38
[QUOTE=Boris-Kachakokof]
PS: Len your busted on a double whammy, e-mail and phone number!!!!
Here is a message posted by a certain individual who does'nt practice what he preaches:)


Ha ha, saw that one too. LOL!!

RDV
12-05-2005, 16:01
I've got a discrepancy with the new "PM only" system!

Disadvantages:
1) Lets say someone is looking for a place to live and a perspective landlord wonders on to the site. Maybe that person doesn't want to register but just wants to get in contact with the potential renter.


I think if you're interested in renting a place to an expat you will go an extra few steps to get in contact (e.g. registering). Those who are lazy can rent their place through an agent. That costs $$$.




2)If your a teacher advertising your services on this site, you'll get about 60% less prospects.
People who look for tutors need to learn English, what benefits do you see them acquiring from joining an expat site where certain people will rip up their mediocre English skills?



I think this comes from the site being an all-in-one thing: it's a conference, it's a classifieds sites, etc. When you combine, you'll eventually have to compromise. This is one of them.



3)Same thing goes for the buy and sell section. If your moving on short notice and want to sell all your stuff in a hurry, you'll get a lot more interested people if you can just post your e-mail address. There is also something called the referral system. Where someone sends your e-mail address to their friends, neighbors, co-workers.......ect Lets say that 3 people find out about your big sale through their friends. With no direct contact info, it would be pretty fortunate if only 1 person signs up for the site and PM's you!


http://www.craigslist.org/ These guys accumulated a lot of experience with classifieds. Why not use some of their ideas?



4)More people will join the site to get in contact with other members which can be used to increase advertising rates. However, the new members that only require the above services will artificially inflate the membership rate. So, by using the PM only system your basically saying that nominal rates are the same thing as real rates. Fair to advertisers, I think not!

Amdin, please explain your rational behind this new rule to us. If it's posted somewhere else on the site can you please provide a link. (just don't use the privacy excuse)



Not an admin or a mod but I believe that there is some protection that needs to be built it. PM does it for me.

Another thing is -- I for one am very cautious about contacting someone by email posted on a public site.

Cheers,
rdv



Thanks,

BK

Boris-Kachakokof
12-05-2005, 16:22
Thanks for your input rvd.

You made some good comments but if you are self contuse about posting your personal details you just wont do it. Other people who need to get their name out there for whatever reason should be free to do so. It all comes down to the convenience factor. You have something or need something and want the biggest amount of responses.

"I think if you're interested in renting a place to an expat you will go an extra few steps to get in contact (e.g. registering). Those who are lazy can rent their place through an agent. That costs $$$."

This is partly true but read Amerikansky post right above. What I'm basically saying is that less people will contact you.

"I think this comes from the site being an all-in-one thing: it's a conference, it's a classifieds sites, etc. When you combine, you'll eventually have to compromise. This is one of them."

This is not a fair compromise when the mods are free to break their own rules.

Trawlers are an internet wide problem and not an isolated incident on this site alone.

BK

Braders
13-05-2005, 00:21
Thanks for the explanation Len.

Looks like there is a few people out there who are making life extremely difficult for the rest of us. My e-mail address has been stolen more times than I can count. The junk mail blocker works pretty well though.

Here is what I'm thinking.



I agree, and here's what i'm thinking, straight to the point, but hey! That's the way i am - Like it or lump it ;)

boscoe
13-05-2005, 09:48
There is another point of course, this site is a commercial operation that the users pay nothing for and is supported by advertising revenue. If a ‘one hit wonder’ comes to the site and posts his list of things to sell, or his advert for whatever with all his contact details he can then just leave the site, never to return.

This site runs because it can be sold to advertisers on number of page views, there are considerably less page views if a person comes here only once.

Bottom line this is a free service to people who want to sell things, they get something out of it, why shouldn’t the sie?

Anyway it’s a mute point because that’s the rule now, PM only…

J.D.
13-05-2005, 10:04
There is another point of course, this site is a commercial operation that the users pay nothing for and is supported by advertising revenue. If a ‘one hit wonder’ comes to the site and posts his list of things to sell, or his advert for whatever with all his contact details he can then just leave the site, never to return.

This site runs because it can be sold to advertisers on number of page views, there are considerably less page views if a person comes here only once.

Bottom line this is a free service to people who want to sell things, they get something out of it, why shouldn’t the sie?

Anyway it’s a mute point because that’s the rule now, PM only…

Well that is certainly more palatable than telling us that we are bunch of babies who are too stupid to look after ourselves.
Even if you contradict yourself by saying it is a free site but you have to pay for it with inconvenience. Even stupid babies know that nothing is free.

DJ Biscuit
13-05-2005, 13:33
Any site free or not that provides a service expects youto log in, in the case of expat.ru that IS free JD, where's the inconvenience? When you ring someone you have to punch in numbers, is that an inconvenience or just the way it is?

Boscoe is right, it's a commercial site which we get a lot out of for nothing. Being required to log in is no biggie.

Get a life.

Halyavshik
13-05-2005, 13:44
Even if you contradict yourself by saying it is a free site but you have to pay for it with inconvenience.

Actually, he didn't say that. You did.

J.D.
13-05-2005, 15:00
Whoa! or maybe 'woe' is more appropriate.
Seems I've stumbled into a nest of nazi mods

Hal he did say it. He said "the users pay nothing for . . ."
And it in his next part it is implicit at the very least that payment of some effort is and will be required
"If a ‘one hit wonder’ comes to the site and posts his list of things to sell, or his advert for whatever with all his contact details he can then just leave the site, never to return. "

It is very clear that this 'pm only' thing is a pain. It is a 'price' we have to pay to use the site. I stopped my putting in my two cents on how to improve the site because it was too difficult to get a straight answer on the logic behind the way things are run. I just accept what ever comes up. I broke my new habit slightly here to say I thought it was very Putin-ish with this pm only thing.

DJ, reread the thread.
The inconvience is spelled out multiple times.
I currently have four unread pm's that I've sent.

boscoe
13-05-2005, 15:05
I currently have four unread pm's that I've sent.

stop it I'm welling up!

J.D.
13-05-2005, 15:07
stop it I'm welling up!

A well deserved response for my unsolocited comment.
I shall try to be more strict with my new habit.

Halyavshik
13-05-2005, 15:28
it is implicit.

I'm gonna have to break out my pedantic stick and say that if it's implicit, then he didn't actually say it, did he ?

DJ Biscuit
13-05-2005, 15:30
I thought it was very Putin-ish with this pm only thing.




I would love to hear you explain that comparison, fascinating.

Boris-Kachakokof
13-05-2005, 15:49
Boscoe,

Agree that this is a commercial entity that you guys are trying to make profitable. There are a number of ways to do this but unfortunately you chose an unethical way of going about it. Like JD said, your gonna make a one time user sign up to get in contact with another member. This will artificially inflate your membership amount and you'll charge more for advertising space.

You guys are deceiving your sponsors and making life for the rest us of a lot harder while breaking your own rules at will. Very Putinish indeed.

Maybe we can come up with some sort of compromise over here. After all this is a community of people who rely on this site for a number of different reasons. What might not be significant for some can be very important for others.

BK

boscoe
13-05-2005, 16:54
Boscoe,

Agree that this is a commercial entity that you guys are trying to make profitable. There are a number of ways to do this but unfortunately you chose an unethical way of going about it. Like JD said, your gonna make a one time user sign up to get in contact with another member. This will artificially inflate your membership amount and you'll charge more for advertising space.

You guys are deceiving your sponsors and making life for the rest us of a lot harder while breaking your own rules at will. Very Putinish indeed.


How is this unethical??? have you ever used ebay??? How hard is it to logon and collect pm’s??? I’ll be honest with you if it were my site I’d charge to place an ad in buy and sell… We have come to a compromise, use the PM system!

DJ Biscuit
13-05-2005, 17:07
I just don't understand what the big deal is. As Boscoe says using PM system isn't hard and to honest while I am not an Admin or part of the commercial side of the site I think it is on the contrary ethical that telephone numbers and e mails are not allowed. That can be dangerous, not simply in a viral way but can lead to all sorts of problems. I think it's possibly the only solution.

I think it is great that we can discuss this and even ask for changes though. Imagine writing to yahoo! or google or ebay and saying ''can we reach a compromise here'' LMFAO.

Also by the way if you leave your e mail that means the interested party has to reply by e mail thus leaving a trail that they might not want. PM is more anonymous in that respect. Some people don't want to give their e mail out.

Random
13-05-2005, 17:11
for what it's worth re public displaying of emails - here at my firm we no longer post our emails as random@expat.ru we always display them as random (at) expat.ru you would be amazed at how much this cuts down on junk mail ...

Simple but reasonably effective ...

I agree btw with the rule no phone numbers or emails in publc forums ..you never know what kind of weirdo is out there ...

Boris-Kachakokof
13-05-2005, 17:14
Boscoe,

It's unethical because your having people register to use your site who only need to get in contact with another member. This increases your membership which is directly correlated to the rates you charge to place an ad on here. Those people will sign up and contact the needed party and leave, you get another non active member and boast about the fact that more people are using the site to your sponsors.

You said, "How hard is it to logon and collect pm’s??"

This is what another user said above which you probably did not bother to read.

Amerikansky
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Moscow
Posts: 3

A friend wanted to contact one landlord. I suggested he gets registered as I am not always available to PM for him. He said Good god! No thanks! Turns out, the procedure got changed and now looks like this:

1. Fill in the registration form
2. No, you don't get reqistered yet. You'll get a message that you have to confirm your email.
3. Get the confirmation email
4. Go back to the site and reconfirm your registration using the code from the email.
5. No, you don't get access yet. You'll get yet another message that your registration was hereby submitted for a third degree confirmation which is not automatic, so you'll have to wait for some days until a moderator gets to look at it.
6. Keep checking your mail box until you get yet another confirmation email.

At least one of the two things - either the registration procedure or the No phone number policy - has got to change. The two of them together are killing the whole idea of instant information exchange on the internet.

Think you hit it right on the head with paying to advertise your products or service. I would be happy, ready, and willing to pay to be entitled to post my contact details. Do think this would be possible to do through the forum and not just a slot on the main page? Thats a perfect compromise right there.

Please PM the rates that you come up with,

BK

J.D.
13-05-2005, 19:10
I'm gonna have to break out my pedantic stick and say that if it's implicit, then he didn't actually say it, did he ?

You're right as usual Mr Clinton.

J.D.
13-05-2005, 19:19
I would love to hear you explain that comparison, fascinating.

Since you asked
It's rather simple, Putin does what he SAYS he thinks is best for everybody regardless of what they think and without asking what they think.
The difference is that this is a private site so admin can legitamately do that.
The other difference is I know Len is a nice guy so I know he BELIEVES it's best.


And Yes people do call Google and say let's compromise. And Google listens because they have serious competition to deal with. Expat.ru has no serious competition.

I'm not asking for a change here I was only calling it as I see it.

moscowmail
14-05-2005, 08:01
BK and JD...

It is always easy to criticize and point out how much better YOU are...

Get a life, I was the one who bought this site for a friend, went through a mini hell doing it, still often go through so much crap it is pathetic, I am the main conduit for this site, the admin and Mods who help out here do it for nothing, zippo, zilch.... they get hassled by idiots who think they know better...maybe they do, if you don't like it go away, if you want to help, great.

Len

J.D.
14-05-2005, 08:43
What the f len
Get a life? Is this the new catch phrase? What's your life? Telling people to get a life?
You;re always saying let us know how to make this site better and when suggestions come in most of the time the suggesters get slammed. Slammed by what seems to be a unified front. You seem to pick your mods well. Reminds me of a quote from Patton "If we're all thinking the same then someone's not thinking"
I've not always agreed with your choices but I've always believed in your intentions. I dont' know what the fk to think now.
Well it's your site so if you want to treat people like imbecils who don't know how to take care of themselves with regards to their private information
then that will go along perfectly with youre not wanting any intelligent discussion here.

Boris-Kachakokof
14-05-2005, 15:39
Len,

Think that comment was a bit too much. Can really appreciate that you went through a lot to get this site up and running. There is just no reasoning with you guys. At first it seemed like there were privacy issues at hand that made this rule come into effect. Later it surfaced that this is a purely economic matter. I can totally understand that this is a business and needs cash flow to keep on going. So I offered to pay for the privilege to post my contact details.

So now I'm told to get a life, fair?

The fact is that I do like it here, it's great community. Isn't there any way that we can come to some sort of understanding?

BK

boscoe
15-05-2005, 00:16
Boscoe,

It's unethical because your having people register to use your site who only need to get in contact with another member. This increases your membership which is directly correlated to the rates you charge to place an ad on here. Those people will sign up and contact the needed party and leave, you get another non active member and boast about the fact that more people are using the site to your sponsors.

WRONG we regularly delete users that have not visited the sit for a period of time.


You said, "How hard is it to logon and collect pm’s??"

This is what another user said above which you probably did not bother to read.

Amerikansky
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Moscow
Posts: 3

A friend wanted to contact one landlord. I suggested he gets registered as I am not always available to PM for him. He said Good god! No thanks! Turns out, the procedure got changed and now looks like this:

1. Fill in the registration form
2. No, you don't get reqistered yet. You'll get a message that you have to confirm your email.
3. Get the confirmation email
4. Go back to the site and reconfirm your registration using the code from the email.
5. No, you don't get access yet. You'll get yet another message that your registration was hereby submitted for a third degree confirmation which is not automatic, so you'll have to wait for some days until a moderator gets to look at it.
6. Keep checking your mail box until you get yet another confirmation email.

Actually I did ‘bother’ to read it, the registration process has changed and as I set it up it’s hardly new news to me. The thing is that the first 4 stages can be completed in a minute or so. We do manually mod new users but this is to keep ‘undesirables’ out which is of benefit to the whole board.


At least one of the two things - either the registration procedure or the No phone number policy - has got to change. The two of them together are killing the whole idea of instant information exchange on the internet.


BK

Oh come on! ‘killing the whole idea of instant information exchange’ do me a favour lol.

We do review things and if things aren’t working we will change them. At the moment we think it is, but thank you for your thoughts on the matter.

Lled
15-05-2005, 10:20
This site runs because it can be sold to advertisers on number of page views, there are considerably less page views if a person comes here only once.



Now, when are you gonna credit me with my Frequent Viewer Miles?

boscoe
15-05-2005, 12:43
Now, when are you gonna credit me with my Frequent Viewer Miles?
don't push it, we arwe thinking of charging you for your bandwidth! ;)

Lled
15-05-2005, 16:20
don't push it, we arwe thinking of charging you for your bandwidth! ;)
Then I'd like and extra 4 inches

Banned 1st
15-05-2005, 22:38
What the f len
Get a life? Is this the new catch phrase? What's your life? Telling people to get a life?
You;re always saying let us know how to make this site better and when suggestions come in most of the time the suggesters get slammed. Slammed by what seems to be a unified front. You seem to pick your mods well. Reminds me of a quote from Patton "If we're all thinking the same then someone's not thinking"
I've not always agreed with your choices but I've always believed in your intentions. I dont' know what the fk to think now.
Well it's your site so if you want to treat people like imbecils who don't know how to take care of themselves with regards to their private information
then that will go along perfectly with youre not wanting any intelligent discussion here.The most sensible and logically presented post I ever read on this site. Everybody knows our history with J.D. but I just had to say it.

<<edited, please read forum rules>>

J.D.
15-05-2005, 22:46
Great, Len's pissed at me and Olga likes my post.

I think I'll just go slit my wrists or something

Boris-Kachakokof
15-05-2005, 22:51
Think I took this matter a little too far. Never had a conflict with anyone on here but that's cause I never really spoke out.

Got 2 options right now, try fixing my tattered reputation or get a new identity.
Hmmmmmm, wonder which will be the easiest choice???????

boscoe
16-05-2005, 00:18
Think I took this matter a little too far. Never had a conflict with anyone on here but that's cause I never really spoke out.

Got 2 options right now, try fixing my tattered reputation or get a new identity.
Hmmmmmm, wonder which will be the easiest choice???????
as you know signing up is a pain in the a*se ;)

Boris-Kachakokof
16-05-2005, 00:37
Good one B, totaly got me there! lol

I've gotta come up with a new nick too............

Banned 1st
16-05-2005, 00:45
Great, Len's pissed at me and Olga likes my post.

I think I'll just go slit my wrists or somethingNice joke, except that you reminded me of my own wrists that I already slit a year ago for a similar reason:) Alternatively, if you are serious, I can edit. What words exactly would be unflattering enough to make you enjoy life again??

(Seriously though, if so different people start having the same opinion on something, it means SOMETHING's just got too far.)

Boris-Kachakokof
16-05-2005, 00:54
Think this little PM thing has gone a little too far. After all it's only one tiny issue on a forum. Could talk about it till I turn blue but it's not really worth it! lol

Got a new problem now, someone keeps on stealing my rep points, 14 gone so far. Just a friendly warning for you pips, there is a reputation thief among us. My suspicion falls on the guy who's offering piano lessons, there is something fishy about his posts.

boscoe
16-05-2005, 01:32
Nice joke, except that you reminded me of my own wrists that I already slit a year ago for a similar reason:) Alternatively, if you are serious, I can edit. What words exactly would be unflattering enough to make you enjoy life again??

(Seriously though, if so different people start having the same opinion on something, it means SOMETHING's just got too far.)

If I was you I'd ask for your money back and sign up to a different forum!

Banned 1st
16-05-2005, 01:47
Think this little PM thing has gone a little too far. After all it's only one tiny issue on a forum. Could talk about it till I turn blue but it's not really worth it! lol

Got a new problem now, someone keeps on stealing my rep points, 14 gone so far. Just a friendly warning for you pips, there is a reputation thief among us. My suspicion falls on the guy who's offering piano lessons, there is something fishy about his posts.Boris, you don't need to take this rep thing that seriously, really. Don't you think your posts tell more about you than a little square?

Don't you realize how easy it is for anybody to change anybody's rep any way they want for any good or bad reason? Trust me, people are aware of this enough not to take the rep thing that seriously.

I got a Warning by PM that I should "read the Rules". I did it once again. It is my greatest desire to adhere by the rules and that's why I want to make sure I understand them.

I found one rule that may be relevant:
"Mod/admin bashing WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. If you have a problem with any of the Moderators or Admin please PM."
Does this mean "any public discussion of the Mods actions will not be tolerated"? If that's right, I will NOT discuss them, no big deal. But there may be one problem, and I am not talking of myself, I hardly ever post here, but of many other users that were recently trying to openly discuss these issues. ===>
if there's no free outlet for pent up emotions (like - No free open discussion allowed, only do it the way we tell you) then they may burst out one day and cause much more harm than otherwise. Natural way is always better. I say this only because I want good for THIS SITE and it's USERS.

Having said that, mods please edit from my previous posts what ever was said against the rules. I hope, it will help me understand the rules still better and sorry for saying prohibited things whatever they were:)

Banned 1st
16-05-2005, 01:53
If I was you I'd ask for your money back and sign up to a different forum!(Only noticed that after I posted the above.) Thanks for the advise, but I already have my own forum that brings me enough money, and my secret is: be fair and moderate the way you yourself would want to be moderated. Simple, but still can be hard at times...

Boris-Kachakokof
16-05-2005, 01:58
Banned,

Not taking it seriously at all, that was just an attempt to crack a little joke about the rep points thing. Could care less if they go up or down. Seems like everyone is getting their panties twisted in a knot over this issue. Think the best thing to do it to let this thing go, looks like I pi**ed enough people off already. Even Len got mad and he's usually a pretty jolly fellow.

boscoe
16-05-2005, 02:12
(Only noticed that after I posted the above.) Thanks for the advise, but I already have my own forum that brings me enough money, and my secret is: be fair and moderate the way you yourself would want to be moderated. Simple, but still can be hard at times...

you must send me the address in a PM so I can try and learn how it's done.

Banned 1st
16-05-2005, 02:49
you must send me the address in a PM so I can try and learn how it's done.Check your PM

RDV
16-05-2005, 15:05
Boscoe,

It's unethical because your having people register to use your site who only need to get in contact with another member. This increases your membership which is directly correlated to the rates you charge to place an ad on here. Those people will sign up and contact the needed party and leave, you get another non active member and boast about the fact that more people are using the site to your sponsors.

You said, "How hard is it to logon and collect pm’s??"

This is what another user said above which you probably did not bother to read.

Think you hit it right on the head with paying to advertise your products or service. I would be happy, ready, and willing to pay to be entitled to post my contact details. Do think this would be possible to do through the forum and not just a slot on the main page? Thats a perfect compromise right there.

Please PM the rates that you come up with,

BK

BK,

Why are you trying to change the world? If you don't like shopping at Safeway (or whatever chain you have) because you don't like the way they display product in their shelves, are you going to launch a PR campaign get Safeway to change their methods?

I think it's easier to go to Albertsons, isn't it? Same thing here. You don't like something, you suggest an impovement, it gets rejected, MOVE ON. Get a site of your own, roll it out, get PR financing, promote it as the most user-friendly site on the web and HAVE IT YOUR WAY.

On another thought, maybe, the expat.ru owners will consider enlisting you as an admin. You do seem to have the energy to do all if this and for free.

Banned 1st
16-05-2005, 15:47
BK,

Why are you trying to change the world? If you don't like shopping at Safeway (or whatever chain you have) because you don't like the way they display product in their shelves, are you going to launch a PR campaign get Safeway to change their methods?

I think it's easier to go to Albertsons, isn't it? Same thing here. You don't like something, you suggest an impovement, it gets rejected, MOVE ON. Get a site of your own, roll it out, get PR financing, promote it as the most user-friendly site on the web and HAVE IT YOUR WAY.

On another thought, maybe, the expat.ru owners will consider enlisting you as an admin. You do seem to have the energy to do all if this and for free.RDV, BK's latest posts make all that you said completely irrelevant, on another thought may be it was important for you to say it? If it made you feel good for some reason, then OK, we are all happy for you.

moscowmail
16-05-2005, 16:28
First of all, my posting on buy and sell was a mistake from me, I meant to PM, I deleted as soon as it was pointed out, but too late, I am getting around 5 or 6 extra spam on that email, hey, I am human and I messed up :)

Secondly,

I understand the pros and cons of all the arguments and I am swinging both ways... erm on the conversation not any other way :) but from the owners point of view, who unfortunately I represent, they agree with the rule, the owner currently has around 14 very successful websites in Russia, only 3 have forums, and this is the rule they have recently adopted as well....

What can I say, we really appreciate all the suggestions, often we implement the suggestions, sometimes not.

Thanks

Len

Boris-Kachakokof
16-05-2005, 16:37
rdv,

My main reason for stirring the waters up here is cause I've got some time to kill before making my way over to Moscow. Just got my junior brokers license which almost killed me and feel like sitting around for a while and taking it easy. Your comment about moving on is not really relevant, this site does not have a formidable substitute and therefore is monopolizing the "expat forum" market.

Think your the rep point thief now, GIVE ME BACK MY POINTS so I can redeem them for an expat. ru mug.

BK

PS: does rdv stand for Rob Dam Van?

RDV
16-05-2005, 16:47
rdv,

My main reason for stirring the waters up here is cause I've got some time to kill before making my way over to Moscow. Just got my junior brokers license which almost killed me and feel like sitting around for a while and taking it easy. Your comment about moving on is not really relevant, this site does not have a formidable substitute and therefore is a monopolizing the "expat forum" market.


A substitute is a replacement, isn't it? How about 'an alternative' otherwise you yourself are not too far away from a monopoly in your thoughts/views. Only the one that works best for you :wink:

Well, you've got time and energy, so just as there are The Moscow Times and The Exile, you can be an alternative to the expat.ru. What would you call yourself?




Think your the rep point thief now, GIVE ME BACK MY POINTS so I can redeem them for an expat. ru mug.

BK

PS: does rdv stand for Rob Dam Van?

You're gonna have to do a bit more guesswork to get that mug because I care less about points.

P.S. Another wrong guess (not doing very well with guesses here, are you? :p ) It stands for my initials

moscowmail
16-05-2005, 16:47
Just read thru the posts, jeez guys, when I say get a life I mean it so there :evil: whoops, I am glad my rep function is switched off :)

OK< records straight and all that...

The PM thing was not a commercial decision, realistically if anything it may be slightly against the commercial interests of the board, a one time reader/logger could paste 10's of forum boards with the same message and sit back and wait for responses to roll in :)

I have explained above reasons from the owners

JD, you haven't annoyed me, I didn't respond because unfortunately I do have a real life and it is far too busy :(

Banned first, how the heck did you get back here... or why is the most important question ;) you have your own forum and you moderate it???? jeez, is that with all your other 54 user id's from this site :)

Boscoe I hate you

Erm....

MM your an idiotic dictator... doh.. thats me...

Etc..etc..etc

Oh yeah, BK thanks for the post, seriosuly it increased our hits big time, maybe the advertisers for commisions :)

RDV
16-05-2005, 16:54
RDV, BK's latest posts make all that you said completely irrelevant, on another thought may be it was important for you to say it? If it made you feel good for some reason, then OK, we are all happy for you.

Of course it was just as it was for you to comment on it and for BK to start the thread. We all have our reasons, have we not? ;)

Boris-Kachakokof
16-05-2005, 16:58
Dam Van, do you mind if I call you this now?

Substitutes and replacements are pretty much the same thing. Because of your magnificent comparison between the two, I'm off to the Bears site to cause a little more meaningless havoc.

BK

Banned 1st
16-05-2005, 17:29
Of course it was just as it was for you to comment on it and for BK to start the thread. We all have our reasons, have we not? ;)One difference: BK didn't just care about his own feeling good like the rest of us. He actually tried to make the board more logical and convenient for everybody. How funny that despite all the time he put into orderly presenting his valid arguments, it can still pass unnoticed...

Banned 1st
16-05-2005, 17:42
Banned first, how the heck did you get back here... or why is the most important question ;) Why I came back? May be, to help you revive your good memories sometimes? Like here:
Hmmm, thanks Banned 1st... wow, u do shock me sometimes, I have no idea what I said, thanks for the memories
I am not, contrary to popular belief, a real dictator so there :pUnlike many, I know you are not a dictator since I met you in person, and I'll keep reminding people of it.

moscowmail
16-05-2005, 17:49
Aaagghhh, Banned, please your making me blush... :vomit: erm sick ;)

RDV
16-05-2005, 18:52
One difference: BK didn't just care about his own feeling good like the rest of us. He actually tried to make the board more logical and convenient for everybody. How funny that despite all the time he put into orderly presenting his valid arguments, it can still pass unnoticed...

I've never gone into "an exchange of views" with you but I sense it can last for some time :) So far, I've been curious...

In my opinion, caring about what's good for you as long as it doesn't get in the way of other people is the way to go. And when you try making things logical _your_ way, no, you don't really do it from where you stand. Rather you somehow become 'everybody' and decide for everybody :D

Indeed, when one way of presenting your point of view fails (no matter how many posts is attracts) you come another angle and start things anew: you didn't notice anything. How far will that get you?

I have always thought that when you disagree with someone, you accept that they have a point of view different from yours and you accept that. You can stay or you can move.

Banned 1st
17-05-2005, 01:33
I've never gone into "an exchange of views" with you but I sense it can last for some time :) So far, I've been curious...

In my opinion, caring about what's good for you as long as it doesn't get in the way of other people is the way to go. And when you try making things logical _your_ way, no, you don't really do it from where you stand. Rather you somehow become 'everybody' and decide for everybody :D

Indeed, when one way of presenting your point of view fails (no matter how many posts is attracts) you come another angle and start things anew: you didn't notice anything. How far will that get you?

I have always thought that when you disagree with someone, you accept that they have a point of view different from yours and you accept that. You can stay or you can move.This is one of those rare cases when I didn't understand a post (seriously, without sarcasm).
I'll try anyway to respond to a few things I kinda understood. Yes, it IS possible to "decide for everybody". Moreover, it is necessary. That's why moderators are (supposed to be) there. And it IS hard to decide for everybody. That's why all new ideas, suggestions and criticism coming from users (people for whom this all exhists) should be taken seriously, and with appreciation.

People make this input because they CARE. If they didn't, they would've simply moved away, or posted obscenities just to p**s the Mods off. And when people care, you can even punish them for this: bash their comments, threaten to reveal private info, whatever - and they'll still keep coming and trying to help, at least for some time.

The rest is totally unclear. Who's 'way of presenting' fails? Who didn't notice what? One can move - where?

Banned 1st
17-05-2005, 01:49
Aaagghhh, Banned, please your making me blush... :vomit: erm sick ;)MM, my rule is simple: Whatever personal issues can be between me and a Mod., I'll be the first to shut a user up if he says something unfair about you. Do I do this to gain favors - no. I know what kind of reaction I'll be shown (above). I just do it because it's the right thing to do.

Same about J.D. (who must be hating me up to slashing his wrists:), he said a very sensible thing, and I'm the first to point it out. Again, because it's the right thing to do - whereas picking at him could be much more fun for me.

moscowmail
17-05-2005, 06:52
MM, my rule is simple: Whatever personal issues can be between me and a Mod., I'll be the first to shut a user up if he says something unfair about you. Do I do this to gain favors - no. I know what kind of reaction I'll be shown (above). I just do it because it's the right thing to do.

Same about J.D. (who must be hating me up to slashing his wrists:), he said a very sensible thing, and I'm the first to point it out. Again, because it's the right thing to do - whereas picking at him could be much more fun for me.


I think I am in love... swoon.. ;)

I have no probs with suggestions, healthy debates etc, :)

Banned 1st
17-05-2005, 09:39
MoscowMail your making me blush... :vomit: erm sick :rolleyes:
Oh yes, and get a life, just don't forget I have no probs with suggestions and anything else you say.

And if you don't like it, go off my posts. Believe it or not, they are polite and honest.

:happymad: :happymad:
(Imitation #1)

Lady Marmalade
17-05-2005, 12:35
Well BK, my favorite 22 yr old Canuck who left Moscow at age 4, suffered through his brokers license and is now en route back to the Big City in early June, I see you succeeded in going from Red back to Green, congratulations! You can thank certain people on the site for that and your sense of humour because unlike the little people who can only swing you up or down one point at a time, the higher entities on this site can swing you up by between four and ten points at a go. For example I posted a not quite suitable pic in the Darkroom and got dinged 10 rep points all in one go by a certain individual who has wisely disabled his reputation. If there'd been rep points in Febuary, I would have been beyond red. I'm amazed JD got dinged for expressing a pretty straight forward opinion, what's up with that guys? They're just opinions. We hardly ever see most of these people in real life as we all pretty much have our own lives to live so why does it always have to be a stinking war over these issues? Does it really matter? It really ticks me off when it happens and it really ticks me off when we come up against the wall. But hey, I'm with the Pink Floydd side of things, I'm just another "RED" brick in the wall and happy to be so.

Boris-Kachakokof
17-05-2005, 15:40
Favorita,

The 18 some odd years have really turned me into a classic western capitalist. Don't know if that's a good thing but it was other that or getting an arts degree. Living in Canada all this time also raised my sense of moral out rage. Not sure what that means but could probably explain my actions on here. Believe it or not but this little rule will cost me a couple of thousand. The lessons section of this site is directly tied into what I do;)
Guess I'll have to advertise in the times at a great price of a buck a word.

The mods couldn't possibly deduct that many reputation points from you! Like I said above, there is a reputation thief here. It's either the Van guy or most likely the piano teachers who is haunting the lessons section of the forum.

My sense of moral out rage is tingling again, time to go march for the lesbian commi nazis.

BK

Moscow Wolf
23-05-2005, 18:03
My sense of moral out rage is tingling again, time to go march for the lesbian commi nazis.BK

By PM only please, we don't won't everybody turning up at the march; only the nazi lesbians!

Ps. can you be a commi and a nazi Lesbian or were you thinking of a threesome! wink.