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MoscowGooner
12-04-2005, 11:13
Morning Ladies and Gentlemen


We came accross a pair of green snake skin, cork motif bottom, Dior boconojki last week in Paris for about 430. The same thing goes at Dior Moscow (stolishnikov perelok if am not mistaken) for 28 800 roubles which is about 820. You can actually see it in this month's edition of Marie-Claire, russian version.


I mean I can't imagine anyone in their right mind buying any fashion or luxury item in Moscow anyway, let alone if its double priced.


Anyone out there brave enough (or obscenely rich enough) to get themselves suited and booted at Moscow fashion outlets?

Alex
12-04-2005, 11:22
There is actually one outlet on Novoslabotskaya st. with a lot of D&G, Dior and stuff like that, but those are things from way way way last sesone...

Ghost
12-04-2005, 11:24
I think you'll find that most expats here buy clothes elsewhere. Moscow prices are beyond ridiculous when it comes to pricing. What I cannot understand is what morons actually DO buy things for double the price (like in your example). And if no one buys it, how do these hilarious shops stay in business?

For a difference of 400 Euro, I could hop a plane, go to Paris, buy the item, and enjoy a long Parisian weekend.

Or I could buy it in Moscow. NOT!

Alex
12-04-2005, 11:28
Even the chain stores (zara, mango...) are more expansive here, it's unbelivable!

preacher of hedonism
12-04-2005, 11:37
Originally posted by Ghost
I think you'll find that most expats here buy clothes elsewhere. Moscow prices are beyond ridiculous when it comes to pricing. What I cannot understand is what morons actually DO buy things for double the price (like in your example). And if no one buys it, how do these hilarious shops stay in business?

For a difference of 400 Euro, I could hop a plane, go to Paris, buy the item, and enjoy a long Parisian weekend.

Or I could buy it in Moscow. NOT! I am for one. I cannot hop on a plane just like that - need visa. That is hassle. I'm aware of overcharging, but it saves hassle. Plus, there are ways to shop smart :)

Surok
12-04-2005, 11:41
Originally posted by preacher of hedonism
Plus, there are ways to shop smart :)

You going to share any of these ways with us? might help those of us who can't hop on a plane...

Ghost
12-04-2005, 11:43
Agreed. Please share your ways of shopping smart. Since I know you personally, this should prove to be very entertaining :)

Shatneresque
12-04-2005, 11:45
Originally posted by Alex
Even the chain stores are more expansive here, it's unbelivable!
When are Target and Wal-Mart opening branches in Moscow, anyway...?

Ledka
12-04-2005, 11:45
Here you always risk to buy a fake Dior or D&G, etc. by a double or tripple price. I guess 90% of goods are fake here.

P.I.M.P.
12-04-2005, 12:13
February and July are sales seasons in Moscow just as most of the rest of Europe. Prices drop enough to be reasonable.

Ghost
12-04-2005, 12:14
Originally posted by Shatneresque
When are Target and Wal-Mart opening branches in Moscow, anyway...?

I doubt highly that Target will ever get here. Wal-Mart is trying, but failing. They're looking at buying someone last I heard now.

Ghost
12-04-2005, 12:15
Originally posted by P.I.M.P.
February and July are sales seasons in Moscow just as most of the rest of Europe. Prices drop enough to be reasonable.

Yes, but then they're on sale in other countries, so they're still half!

Alex
12-04-2005, 12:18
Originally posted by Ghost
Yes, but then they're on sale in other countries, so they're still half!

Exactly!!

MoscowGooner
12-04-2005, 12:33
Originally posted by P.I.M.P.
February and July are sales seasons in Moscow just as most of the rest of Europe. Prices drop enough to be reasonable.

Havent done summer sales in Moscow yet but trouble with winter sales is that the minute u step outside the store, u get back to those filthy dirty roads, standing there trying to hail a jigouli cab.

Now, to me, that takes all the glamour out of ur shopping ..

Nothing compares to the sales under sunny skies in Rome wandering through Via Condotti ..

MoscowGooner
12-04-2005, 13:04
Originally posted by preacher of hedonism
I am for one. I cannot hop on a plane just like that - need visa. That is hassle. I'm aware of overcharging, but it saves hassle. Plus, there are ways to shop smart :)


Well if you can afford 28800 rouble shoes, they surely wouldnt mind giving u a schengen visa now would they ? :)

Sadie
12-04-2005, 13:18
You can't call shopping smart when you share the priceless addresses. I don't find Paris much cheaper than Moscow in terms of brands. You can find the overpriced stuff much cheaper in other places if you actually bother to look for them.

irlandka
12-04-2005, 20:01
The thing about Moscow sales, is that it is only the over-priced places that have them at all. That said, TsUM, Tretyakovskii Passaje, and the brand stores like Prada and Celine do have sales 50-75% off in January and July.

Some brand shops (like Boscoe di Ciliegi) send their previous seasons' collection to Ostatkiye Sladkiye or Tsentr Discont (on Savvinskaya Naberezhnaya) but even these places have sales!

It is a wierd cycle, but there are excellent deals to be had in Moscow. I'm a person who likes to shop and I enjoy the process of finding what I'm looking for.

I like stores like TsUM because there is service (and free alterations!) and although I'd never pay full price for what they offer, I think the selection rivals small, exculsive depatment stores in the West.

M-C
12-04-2005, 20:19
I can't imagine paying over 400 euros for a pair of sandals.... let alone 800!

RDV
12-04-2005, 21:27
There are people with so much wealth in this city that it doesn't matter for them whether they fly to Paris or go to Tretyakosvky Proezd. Paris might be a longer trip...

So the 400 Euro difference is like small change for them. Plus the more you pay the more you can brag about it next time you go to Osen' or First...

Ghost
12-04-2005, 21:47
Yes, that's true, rdv. But for the other 96% of the population, the prices are a tad high.

M-C
12-04-2005, 22:01
96%, good! From a couple of the previous mails I was getting the feeling that I'd be the only one without $500 sandals ;)

Sadie
12-04-2005, 22:05
Dior wouldn't be Dior if the rest 96% could afford it. That's the idea I suppose. I am happy with it.
Irlandka - good point, good addresses ;)

Ghost
13-04-2005, 08:22
What about the rest of the shops. Are they all trying to be Dior too? And if so, where does that leave the general populace? Saving up to buy shoes that cost one month's salary?

That's normal, alright!

druna
13-04-2005, 08:42
When discussing Moscow prices: cheap city Nice and inexpensive town Baden Baden :)

Sadie
13-04-2005, 08:57
Ghost, you are strange indeed. You walk around Stockmann, stick to the center, walk down Tverskaya and back, Manezh too, dont show your nose to where common people usually shop (I am pretty positive) and then complain: how on Earth can people afford those prices. People shop in the markets, in cheap chains, say like Zh, Jennifer, Stock center, TC Moskva etc. etc. etc. Tell me what have you bought in a market or those shops?

Shamps elysees is not for everyone as well. So what?
Im aint getting it why noone is annoyed with the fact that a can of Cola costs 3 times more expensive in Europe than here? Why Big Mac is 4 Euro, which is 3 times Moscow price again. Save on Big Macs here and shop with Dior cant see any problem.

The only thing that differs us from westerners is that we are ready and happy to buy clothes and shoes that are sometimes more expensive than we can afford in our desire to look stunning :) its a national thing or perhaps Moscow thing, that is hardly understood by westerners. But it doesn't hurt anyone, does it? :) I guess thats the source of these endless talks about shops and prices here.

Lled
13-04-2005, 09:02
Originally posted by rdv
...So the 400 Euro difference is like small change for them. Plus the more you pay the more you can brag about it next time you go to Osen' or First...

Hey, I was at Osen last weekend and I don't have Euro 400 sandals. I had a headache, but no sandals.

:D

Cherry
13-04-2005, 10:06
yes maybe its overpriced but (ladies will understand me) its such a pleasure to wear it even its the only piece you buy in a month!:)
its like jewellery.. men would say"WHY spending thousands on stones??" strange question for us:)

Diamonds are girls best friends:)

Ledka
13-04-2005, 10:27
Originally posted by Cherry
yes maybe its overpriced but (ladies will understand me) its such a pleasure to wear it even its the only piece you buy in a month!:)
its like jewellery.. men would say"WHY spending thousands on stones??" strange question for us:)

Diamonds are girls best friends:)

I disagree... small things can make women happy... there should be something special about this thing... and it doesn't need to be expensive, or designer thing...

Sorry, Cherry, but my best friends are people :D

Cherry
13-04-2005, 10:32
Originally posted by Ledka
I disagree... small things can make women happy... there should be something special about this thing... and it doesn't need to be expensive, or designer thing...

Sorry, Cherry, but my best friends are people :D

yeah that goes without saying!

but if its about labels i understand ppl who like it!:agree:

Marylin wasn't vey happy with people indeed:(

Ghost
13-04-2005, 10:35
Originally posted by Sadie
Ghost, you are strange indeed. You walk around Stockmann, stick to the center, walk down Tverskaya and back, Manezh too, dont show your nose to where common people usually shop (I am pretty positive)

Your wrong, plain and simple. I could shop at all those places, but why would I? I shop at Stockman for the one or two things I simply cannot get anywhere else, and for all the rest of my groceries I go to Metro, where it's 1/4th the price as Stockman.

For electronics and the like, I go to Gorbushka or other discount locations I can find. for clothes, I buy them in the US when I'm there for 1/4th the price, or in countries I travel to on business trips. Or I've gone to Spartivnya for winter stuff I need.

As for Cokes and Big Macs, not that I eat either of them, but the prices in the US are not more than here. I don't know about the EU - but if Russians want cheap coke and bigmacs, but really expensive clothes, then enjoy!

Ledka
13-04-2005, 10:35
Originally posted by Cherry
yeah that goes without saying!

but if its about labels i understand ppl who like it!:agree:

Marylin wasn't vey happy with people indeed:(

hm, I like quality things too... But I don't understand label slaves...

Vanilla
13-04-2005, 10:39
In Moscow prices can be whatever they wish to. Because for some stupid reason people here want to feel VIP. Go to VIP restaurants, VIP stylists, VIP shops but live in rented apartments and drive second hand cars. Ridiculous, but it works.

MoscowGooner
13-04-2005, 10:42
Originally posted by Sadie


Why Big Mac is 4 Euro, which is 3 times Moscow price again. Save on Big Macs here and shop with Dior cant see any problem.






Big Mac is 4 Euros ? Which planet are you from?



Assuming you save 2 euros each time u buy a Big Mac in Moscow rather than say, in Milan, you need to do that 200 times in order to reach the 400 price difference.

I wouldnt even wish for my worst ennemy to eat that much Big Macs!! :)

P.I.M.P.
13-04-2005, 10:42
Luxury items are madly overpriced here. Back in the States, I'd always buy a Tiffany silver baby rattle for friends who just gave birth. Cost: $100-$150. Stopped by to pick one up the other day. Had to look for another gift when the same rattle costs 15,000 rubles+

Mercury, or whoever sells the Tiffany brand here must make a killing with those kinds of markups.


Same goes with my watch. Bought a Cartier Roadster a few years ago at the Moscow Duty Free Sheremetevo for $2700. The Euro was at its low and the Duty Free was pricing in USD. The same watch presently costs over 180,000 rubles in Moscow (Louvre & Cartier)

An evil thing the Moscow duty free did here when the Euro shot up was change the currency from USD to EUR without adjusting for the 25%+ difference. Made buying stuff there not worth it.

P.I.M.P.
13-04-2005, 10:45
Originally posted by MoscowGooner
Big Mac is 4 Euros ? Which planet are you from?



Assuming you save 2 euros each time u buy a Big Mac in Moscow rather than say, in Milan, you need to do that 200 times in order to reach the 400 price difference.

I wouldnt even wish for my worst ennemy to eat that much Big Macs!! :)

Ever check out the Economist's Big Mac Index?

http://www.economist.com/markets/bigmac/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3503641

In dollar terms: Switzerland: $5.46, Russia $1.49

MoscowGooner
13-04-2005, 10:45
Originally posted by Vanilla
In Moscow prices can be whatever they wish to. Because for some stupid reason people here want to feel VIP. Go to VIP restaurants, VIP stylists, VIP shops but live in rented apartments and drive second hand cars. Ridiculous, but it works.


You be blessed vanilla. I couldnt have said it better myself.

MoscowGooner
13-04-2005, 10:55
Originally posted by P.I.M.P.
Ever check out the Economist's Big Mac Index?

http://www.economist.com/markets/bigmac/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3503641

In dollar terms: Switzerland: $5.46, Russia $1.49

Fair enough, Average Euro prices seem to be $3.75 and that is a mere 2.9 euros.

Not that it matters anyway but the thing is u can't just extend that index to luxury items as these can not be sold in "Big Mac" Units.

You might well be able to afford a $3.75 Big Mac even if u were a tramp in Moscow. Buying 28800 roubles Dior Shoes is a different matter.

M-C
13-04-2005, 11:13
People in Russia dress beyond their means, true, so do the Italians, why not? I'm not sure that it's because they're saving on Big Macs and cigarettes though:) I have acquaintances in both countries who don't hesitate to spend a whole month's salary on an article of clothing, sometimes I wish I had the nerve and optimism to do so!!

P.I.M.P.
13-04-2005, 11:17
Deals CAN be found in Moscow.. Wife bought her wedding dress in Milan at Alberta Ferretti. Cost something like 1600 Euros. Came back to Moscow and found out there was an Alberta Ferretti store in Petrovskiy Passage. Dress was selling for 900 Euros after a 50% discount. I was kicking myself all the way home. :(

There are a lot of luxury brands here which maintain the same prices here as anywhere else in the world. Cartiers (non-watch) jewelry is priced the same (our rings here even cost a bit less than in France.) Bang & Olufsen audio and video equipment is also priced the same in every country. I met the owner of the B&O franchise in Moscow at one of his stores and he bet me to find cheaper prices anywhere else. After 20 minutes in his office on the internet, I gave up and lost.


Oddly enough with autos, which can usually cost 2X more here:

A Peugeot can cost about the same in Moscow as it does in France:

Go to www.peugeot.fr Les vehicules and then Configurer votre voiture

Go to www.armand.ru (one of the several Peugeot dealers in Moscow) and check out the prices.

Youll find theyre pretty much the same! Sometimes even lower when you factor in a discount after bargaining with the dealerships here.

Ledka
13-04-2005, 11:20
but the paradox is that the average salary wage here is much lower here than in European countries

Ghost
13-04-2005, 11:33
Exactly, Ledka!

Alex
13-04-2005, 11:43
Originally posted by MoscowGooner
Big Mac is 4 Euros ? Which planet are you from?



Assuming you save 2 euros each time u buy a Big Mac in Moscow rather than say, in Milan, you need to do that 200 times in order to reach the 400 price difference.

I wouldnt even wish for my worst ennemy to eat that much Big Macs!! :)

Besides, if you eat 200 Big Macs you wont have to worry about designer prices in Moscow or anywhere else - you wont be able to fit into it... :)

Lled
13-04-2005, 11:44
Originally posted by Alex
Besides, if you eat 200 Big Macs you wont have to worry about designer prices in Moscow or anywhere else - you wont be able to fit into it... :)

Sure, you could just wear those Spanish curtains...if they ever get here...

:D

Alex
13-04-2005, 11:47
Originally posted by llednomis
Sure, you could just wear those Spanish curtains...if they ever get here...

:D

They are great! and I'm sure they'll get here very soon! :)
(That's what I tell myself every day when i come to work)
:D

M-C
13-04-2005, 11:49
Salaries still aren't very high in Italy, but even when they were just about the lowest in Europe Italians were better dressed than anybody else... it's just a question of priorities

MoscowGooner
13-04-2005, 11:51
Originally posted by M-C
sometimes I wish I had the nerve and optimism to do so!!

I hear you, I still havent got passed that stage myself and stick to Zara and the like plus maybe the odd real fashion token now and then. My wife, though, seems to have broken the sound barrier long time ago without even blinking *Sigh*



Originally posted by M-C
People in Russia dress beyond their means, true, so do the Italians, why not?

Italians have been doing it for decades week in week out and 800 is pretty much the minimum wage down there. Most importanly, they do it in REAL style, i.e. not while driving a cheap second hand car or (god forbid!) wearing unmatching clothes. Italy is the most fashion conscious nation Ive ever been to. Ive discovered the true meaning of the word SunGlasses when i first went there a couple of decades ago. Well I guess a sunny climate kind of helps a bit, doesn't it, in a way..

The overly priced fashion items in Moscow though are, IMHO, for the new rich russians who are **** scared of travelling to the west or cant be bothered with the hussle of shopping abroad, plus the odd upper middle class folks who are biting more than they can shew.

M-C
13-04-2005, 12:00
One does need to acknowledge that the Italians are a little easier on the eye (generally speaking) than the Russians. EVERYBODY is at least well-dressed! In Milan, on a weekday, shops are full of people purchasing clothes and not one article at a time if you please! In Switzerland I usually am the one with the most purchases in any clothes or toy shop on any given day (clothes for the whole family...), not so in Italy.... they also work hard, I don't know when they find the time, a question of competence, no doubt...

Lady Marmalade
13-04-2005, 12:57
Hey Alex, way back at the beginning of this thread you said there was a discount outlet on Novoslobodskaya St.
Please tell me how do I find it?
Anyway, if you take the politics and stuff out of the argument, take out the ego, take out the culture clashing, take out the who's got what and where it was worn, and it's sooooo last season [me personally I can't believe that there are actually people who know what all this last season stuff looked like and have the ability to identify the designer and or make commentary on it, but apparently there are] and take away the outrageous prices and then look. Sometimes, just sometimes, it's really interesting to see this stuff, to look at it, to have the choice to scoff at it or to admire it. Why? Because in my hometown way back over in the great white north this stuff isn't even available for any price, there's no market for it. Here, there's a market, albeit a 4% one.

Ghost
13-04-2005, 13:04
That's just the thing, Faritova. There IS a 4% or so market where you're from. But retailers realize that it's not worth running that sort of business. It's like opening a Jenny Craig in Ethiopia.

Alex
13-04-2005, 13:05
The outlet is on Novoslabotskaya 3 (the building is right across from the metro station (novoslabotskaya). But dont get your hopes too high, most of the stuff there look like they've been in the wearhouse for a long time... (it's not even about last season)
Good luck though!

MoscowGooner
13-04-2005, 13:11
Originally posted by Alex
most of the stuff there look like they've been in the wearhouse for a long time... (it's not even about last season)
Good luck though!


..And you REALLY expect that to be genuine stuff? :)

Lady Marmalade
13-04-2005, 13:14
A Jenny Craig in Ethiopia eh? That's funny. If the retailers in my hometown decided to cater to that 4%, they'd be joining the queue for the plane to Ethiopia. No, the 4% is just as capable of moving it's ass up the food chain to Montreal, a city that does cater to the 4% without going broke, but yes, Ghost, your point is well made, valid and understood. And Alex, thank you! No high hopes here Alex, trust me, if you've met me, the idea of me in green croc skin high heeled boots or however this puppy got started is pretty laughable. However, I do like the process of looking, the hunt is fun especially when the credit card is left safely at home, well most of the time anyway.

Ghost
13-04-2005, 13:16
Originally posted by faritova
if you've met me, the idea of me in green croc skin high heeled boots or however this puppy got started is pretty laughable.

I know I got a good laugh!

Lady Marmalade
13-04-2005, 13:18
So glad to be of service Ghost:D

Alex
13-04-2005, 13:28
Originally posted by MoscowGooner
..And you REALLY expect that to be genuine stuff? :)

The prices there (even after discount) are quite "genuine" so...

:)

And faritova - I'm with you on the looking thing, i like that as well! thats how i got there in the first place

monkey-girl
13-04-2005, 13:37
I just wonder when it will be possible to get good pretty looking boots/shoes for reasonable price.

For example: last year a fried of mine bought fancy boots in Austria for about 200 Euros while recently we saw the same boots at one of the Moscow luxury shops for 35,000 rubles!!!!!!!!!!!!

that's crazy!

MoscowGooner
13-04-2005, 13:37
Originally posted by faritova
in green croc skin high heeled boots or however this puppy got started ...

No green croc skin darling, the item that started the thread is :

"Glamorous Straps" Sandal: Platform Sandal in green snakeskin and kidskin, 11.5cm heel.

The french descriptions is even (as you would expect ) more precise and adds "talon en liege ". They also have it in red snakeskin.

You should be able to find it on the Dior.com website. Actually u can even buy it online if u r a US resident :)

P.I.M.P.
13-04-2005, 13:41
Anybody know what got this started in Moscow this past winter? These things were huge 2 years ago in the US.

http://www.uggaustralia.com/

Alex
13-04-2005, 13:56
Every time I see these kind of boots in the street I ask myself the same question!

Lady Marmalade
13-04-2005, 14:20
Yeap, I have to say I never understood the Ugg boot phenomenon, except for the fact that their name is so appropiate to my gut reaction to them, Ugh! Should have stayed on the surf boards back in OZ and gone out with a good wave. Okay, good shoes occasionally can be found at the store kiddie corner to the church that used to be a swimming pool or if you are restaurant literate across from Vanille at Metro Kropotinskaya or however that's spelled on the red line. It's the only store on the corner so you can't miss it. Occasionally there are good deals to be had and yes, it's all last season or however many seasons old, but as long as you are a normal person like most of us, I highly doubt this will bother you. Check the products out carefully for fading if they've been in window displays and stuff like that, this place takes cash only and eveything is final sale. Stay away from Italian boots with wooden heels, they crack off here in the winter like there's no tomorrow. I.e. Useless in real weather. The stock changes rapidly here, i.e. here today and gone tomorrow, and prices range from 500 rubles to 30,000 so there's quite a variety. Happy Hunting Monkey Girl

DPG
13-04-2005, 15:10
Originally posted by P.I.M.P.
Anybody know what got this started in Moscow this past winter? These things were huge 2 years ago in the US.

Most likely the fact that they were big in Australia two years ago??

Sadie
13-04-2005, 15:56
Originally posted by MoscowGooner
Big Mac is 4 Euros ? Which planet are you from?
my dear friend, next time think b4 you say smth not to look.. you know how..

Country name / Big Mac price in * US $
Iceland / 5.51
Switzerland / 4.56
Sweden / 3.46
Gread Britain / 3.19
Russia / 1.26

Helsinki Big Mac meal - 7.5 euro.

Sadie
13-04-2005, 16:00
Cherry, the comparison with jewellery was brilliant

Sadie
13-04-2005, 16:04
Originally posted by Ghost
Your wrong, plain and simple. I could shop at all those places, but why would I? I shop at Stockman for the one or two things I simply cannot get anywhere else, and for all the rest of my groceries I go to Metro, where it's 1/4th the price as Stockman.

For electronics and the like, I go to Gorbushka or other discount locations I can find. for clothes, I buy them in the US when I'm there for 1/4th the price, or in countries I travel to on business trips. Or I've gone to Spartivnya for winter stuff I need.


Ghost, I like it you are wrong blah blah blah. I am wrong in what tho u forgot to specify? That in Zh one can buy shoes for 500-100 RUR? Or that in Jennifer clothes prices start from 150-200 RUR?

When you lack arguments you start cheating on logic let me tell you. The thread is about clothes, no one gives a damn where you do your groceries. We all were keen to know about you Big Mac preferences as well...
I said have you compared the prices in cheap chain shops to ppls salaries. I say they correlate just fine. You said no, I buy clothes abroad" that only proves I was right and you have no clue about cheap prices, that do exist. Why would you go to cheap chains? Then why would you exclaim how people can afford buying clothes here when it all all that expensive in general? Or you are so left oriented that want everyone to dress in Dior? It reminds me smth like: ! ! !


:hooray: :hooray: :hooray:

Halyavshik
13-04-2005, 16:06
I'm joining this conversation a little late. Apologies.

I dunno, I think it goes both ways and depends where you compare it with. A lot of people are talking about different things and different countries.

I just returned from Amsterdam where a pair of Levi's jeans (which I desperately need) costs 100Euros. They cost 70-80 bucks here. Compare to the $30 they cost in the US. I certainly wasn't gonna buy a pair of $30 jeans for 4 times what I'd pay in the US.

Luxury items, however, ARE more expensive here, no doubt about it. I've seen watches that cost $2500-$3000 back home run about twice as much here. For that money, you probably COULD save money by flying to the US and back.

One thing I'm curious no one's mentioned is what's probably a primary reason behind some of the high prices: import taxes. Import tax on goods for resale is like 7$/kg for household items. I shudder to think what it is for luxury items.

I wonder whe the Customs Committee (and ergo the state) will realize it's more beneficial to lower tariffs and allow competition than subject citizens to sub-par quality of Russian manufacturing like with automobiles and Dynamo rynok fake clothes.

Ghost
13-04-2005, 16:11
Sadie,

You were wrong when you said you were "pretty sure" how and were I went. Can't say it any more simple.


no one gives a damn where you do your groceries.

Then why say this:


You walk around Stockmann, stick to the center, walk down Tverskaya and back, Manezh too, dont show your nose to where common people usually shop (I am pretty positive) and then complain

Don't tell me you know where I shop, and then say you don't care where I shop when I call you out on it. Duh!

The rest of your post sounds more like Cosmogirl. Are you saying there are cheap prices on designer clothes like the article that started this thread? Because that's what we're talking about here: Why a designer clothing article here is twice as much as elsewhere in the US or Europe. Or perhaps you're saying you can buy the same designer article of clothing at cheap prices? Because it sounds to me like everyone here is missing those places, not just me.

Sadie
13-04-2005, 16:13
Hal, e-moye, who pay custom fees " ":rolleyes: Only big foreign companies :) Custom brokers are millioneers ;)

Ghost, I've never read cosmogirl, so i dunno whether sounding like her is good or bad, given it's you who gives me characteristics, it must be bad :) ;) I don't care tho. As for brands - yes, I do know shops selling these brands at good prices "grey import", the rest with "white imported" clothes indeed pay full custom fees and rent extremely expensive places and advertise in Mary Clair in addition. It would be strange if a french item cost same at home and abroad too.

Ghost
13-04-2005, 16:18
Originally posted by Halyavshik
I'm joining this conversation a little late. Apologies.

I dunno, I think it goes both ways and depends where you compare it with. A lot of people are talking about different things and different countries.

I just returned from Amsterdam where a pair of Levi's jeans (which I desperately need) costs 100Euros. They cost 70-80 bucks here. Compare to the $30 they cost in the US. I certainly wasn't gonna buy a pair of $30 jeans for 4 times what I'd pay in the US.

Luxury items, however, ARE more expensive here, no doubt about it. I've seen watches that cost $2500-$3000 back home run about twice as much here. For that money, you probably COULD save money by flying to the US and back.

One thing I'm curious no one's mentioned is what's probably a primary reason behind some of the high prices: import taxes. Import tax on goods for resale is like 7$/kg for household items. I shudder to think what it is for luxury items.

I wonder whe the Customs Committee (and ergo the state) will realize it's more beneficial to lower tariffs and allow competition than subject citizens to sub-par quality of Russian manufacturing like with automobiles and Dynamo rynok fake clothes.

Hal, from working day in and out with customs officials, I can tell you that many companies (not mine) avoid true customs fees in very creative manners. Ask FaQ to tell you some stories. A lot of this is not about customs, but about what companies/stores want to make on margins.

Halyavshik
13-04-2005, 16:18
Originally posted by Sadie
Hal, e-moye, who pay custom fees " ":rolleyes: Only big foreign companies :) Custom brokers are millioneers ;)

True, true, but I bet what's paid is still significantly higher than elsewhere. I know we're not talking about cars, but 50-100% of the car's value ? All that to save the Russian automobile, which, most don't consider worth saving to begin with. I imagine it's somewhat the same with luxury clothes.

Again, I think there are countries more expensive, but others less expensive. I guess it's difficult to really discuss this without setting parameters, because we're all talking "oranges and apples".

Anyway, what do I know ? I wouldn't know a designer piece of clothing if it came up and smacked me in the face. Gimme a Boston Redsox t-shirt and a baseball cap anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

Alex
13-04-2005, 16:22
Originally posted by Sadie
Hal, e-moye, who pay custom fees " ":rolleyes: Only big foreign companies :) Custom brokers are millioneers ;)

Thats actually not entirely true - they are strickt with the customs here on every body. I'm sure there are ways around it but I also know that the fee for ready made goods you import are very very high (and custom brokers ARE millioneers :D )

Ghost
13-04-2005, 16:23
Originally posted by Sadie
As for brands - yes, I do know shops selling these brands at good prices "grey import", the rest with "white imported" clothes indeed pay full custom fees and rent extremely expensive places and advertise in Mary Clair in addition. It would be strange if a french item cost same at home and abroad too.

Great! Hey everyone, Sadie is going to tell us the stores to shop in :)

Let's start with


a pair of green snake skin, cork motif bottom, Dior boconojki

For anywhere within 100 kilometers of the 430 euro price Moscowgooner quoted. Then I'm sure plenty of people will enjoy asking where they could find stuff that's not twice the price of places outside Russia. Designer stuff, of course.

Ghost
13-04-2005, 16:26
Originally posted by Alex
Thats actually not entirely true - they are strickt with the customs here on every body. I'm sure there are ways around it but I also know that the fee for ready made goods you import are very very high (and custom brokers ARE millioneers :D )

No, she's right. I would venture that at least half of all importers play custom games.

MoscowGooner
13-04-2005, 16:30
Originally posted by Halyavshik
All that to save the Russian automobile, which, most don't consider worth saving to begin with. I imagine it's somewhat the same with luxury clothes.

Saving Russian Luxury clothes? Please name a decent brand worth wearing, let alone worth saving.

Sadie
13-04-2005, 16:30
Originally posted by Alex
Thats actually not entirely true - they are strickt with the customs here on every body. I'm sure there are ways around it but I also know that the fee for ready made goods you import are very very high (and custom brokers ARE millioneers :D )
alex, i used to work in this area for a couple of years, ppl were paying custom fees for washing machines and fridges as for scrap-iron :)

Ghost, you weeeeeeeeeeesh :p I said before these are priceless addresses. Plus I thought you felt comfortable enough with shopping in the US as we all now know :)

Alex
13-04-2005, 16:30
The truth is (to my opinion) that it has nothing to do with customs or rent or what-ever, they charge those high prices because they CAN! There are so many people here who have so much money they dont know what to do with it! They dont mind paying twice or three times as much.... And the rest of us get f**** because of it :(

Halyavshik
13-04-2005, 16:33
Originally posted by MoscowGooner
Saving Russian Luxury clothes? Please name a decent brand worth wearing, let alone worth saving.

Um, that was my point, if you actually read the sentence above that.

That having been said, there are Russian designer lines like--the now defunct, I think--Tom Klaim or Zaitsev.

Ghost
13-04-2005, 16:35
Originally posted by Sadie
Ghost, you weeeeeeeeeeesh :p I said before these are priceless addresses. Plus I thought you felt comfortable enough with shopping in the US as we all now know :)

I'm not doing it for myself, I wouldn't buy from them anyway. I'm asking for the sake of all on this site. And why are they "priceless"? What happens if the secret gets out?

Sounds suspiciously like they're in fantasy land to me! :suspect:

M-C
13-04-2005, 16:38
The official customs rates are outrageous, which means that to import you need to "dogovaritsa" with the officials who will give you, as a special favour, the scrap metal rates, if you are nice to them, as they have very expensive tastes, importing doesn't come cheap at the end of the day. The shops also require special "protection" which is an expensive commodity too....

Halyavshik
13-04-2005, 16:38
[Halyavshik covers ears and yells] BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, EVERYONE'S TALKING BUT I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

DPG
13-04-2005, 16:39
Originally posted by Alex
The truth is (to my opinion) that it has nothing to do with customs or rent or what-ever, they charge those high prices because they CAN! There are so many people here who have so much money they dont know what to do with it! They dont mind paying twice or three times as much.... And the rest of us get f**** because of it :(

You're correct, but I believe that there are other factors involved such as the fact that, as someone above mentioned, there are simply no other alternatives.

(Most) Russians cannot simply hop on a plane to Paris or London to get the savings we get when we go there to get visas/on holiday or whatever.

Also, I am of the opinion that (in a completely contrasting way to "The West") Russians actually enjoy some intangible satisfaction derived from paying MORE for something than either other people do or indeed than they themselves should. In the West you are far more likely to hear "I found a great place where they sell [whatever name of product] for ONLY XX" whereas here you here "I just got [thing] and it cost me $XXXX, aren't I cool!"...only a matter of time before it reverses.

Of course, as you state (and it's the same, if not more prevalent in other 'rich' countries) there are the people who just have more money than they know what to do with.

Sadie
13-04-2005, 16:39
Originally posted by Ghost
I'm not doing it for myself, I wouldn't buy from them anyway. I'm asking for the sake of all on this site. And why are they "priceless"? What happens if the secret gets out?

Sounds suspiciously like they're in fantasy land to me! :suspect:
nuh! this trick doesn't work with me. Sake of everyone is too abstract. I actually once suggested and was very keen to the idea of making a folder devoted to shops. Nobody supported me, so there :p


As for fantasy land.. you are forgetting I have a blameless witness who now shops with me :) :inlove:

Halyavshik
13-04-2005, 16:39
Originally posted by M-C
The official customs rates are outrageous, which means that to import you need to "dogovaritsa" with the officials who will give you, as a special favour, the scrap metal rates, if you are nice to them, as they have very expensive tastes, importing doesn't come cheap at the end of the day. The shops also require special "protection" which is an expensive commodity too....

Having worked in the scrap metal industry myself, I can tell you that the tariffs on them aren't cheap either....

DPG
13-04-2005, 16:40
Originally posted by Ghost
What happens if the secret gets out?

They'll go bust if it doesn't!!

Halyavshik
13-04-2005, 16:42
Originally posted by Halyavshik
[Halyavshik covers ears and yells] BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, EVERYONE'S TALKING BUT I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

I'm sorry for that outburst. That was my inner-child speaking.

Ghost
13-04-2005, 16:42
Originally posted by DPG
They'll go bust if it doesn't!!

One would think :) But apparently the rules are reversed here. *nudge nudge, wink wink*

DPG
13-04-2005, 16:44
Ghost - Do you fancy a pint tomorrow at the secret place?;)

Sadie
13-04-2005, 16:50
Originally posted by DPG
Ghost - Do you fancy a pint tomorrow at the secret place?;)
DPG, fancy exchage - one address of mine to one address of yours. Now that we have a full list of where Ghost shops for different items including winter clothes, does groceries and eats we only needda find out where he drinks to get a full picture ;) :p

Ghost
13-04-2005, 16:57
Lol, Sadie! :) I pay too much for my pints anyway at some overpriced pub run by a greedy English barmcake!

DPG - absolutely. :)

RDV
13-04-2005, 20:31
Originally posted by llednomis
Hey, I was at Osen last weekend and I don't have Euro 400 sandals. I had a headache, but no sandals.

:D

Right... And did you walk in from the street all by yourself or was it some friend who knew the manager or had those Diors all over him/her?

Or was it for lunch?

;)

Lady Marmalade
14-04-2005, 12:09
As for Russian brands that deliver both quality and value, this is something I would really really like to see because it will create competition within the sector and hopefully improve the products overall. Wishful thinking perhaps. Also, the only Russians who can get the Visas at the drop of hat to fly over to Paris or London or Milan to do their shopping are the same 4% that can just as easily drop the bucks in Moscow without blinking at the price. I am curious for Sadie's opinion here, I was in the GUM discount centre and there were coats there that not only had ISO certificates but claimed to be Russian. They are marketed under the name Kristy's. Has anybody heard of them? [not to be confused with Christie's the sports wear company.] The quality of fabric was okay and the lining and finishing on the seams actually looked pretty good. Is there hope???????

Lled
14-04-2005, 12:12
Originally posted by rdv
Right... And did you walk in from the street all by yourself or was it some friend who knew the manager or had those Diors all over him/her?

Or was it for lunch?

;)

I walked straight in courtesy of being accompanied by something gorgeous and well connected...

:cool:

MoscowGooner
14-04-2005, 12:35
Originally posted by llednomis
accompanied by something gorgeous and well connected...



I presume if its "something" then it must have cost u a few quids
unless uve brought back from the lane which is quite unlikely.

How much? ;)