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shurale
27-04-2010, 16:52
Is being a Christian good for business?

len
27-04-2010, 17:17
Is being a Christian good for business?

christianity preaches good morals, do not steal, do not lie,
and such, if you are a firm one it will help you not steal from the government meaning pay your taxes:D. do not lie about the value or quality of your goods to your customers etc. so yea its good.

SpinaPubica
27-04-2010, 17:33
Being a christian merchant wouldnt help your sale figures in iran , that's for sure....

len
27-04-2010, 17:45
Being a christian merchant wouldnt help your sale figures in iran , that's for sure....

what percentage of iran is christian? 0%?

SpinaPubica
27-04-2010, 17:53
christianity preaches good morals, do not steal, do not lie,
and such, if you are a firm one it will help you not steal from the government meaning pay your taxes:D. do not lie about the value or quality of your goods to your customers etc. so yea its good.


what percentage of iran is christian? 0%?

Yes i know that and that was my point.
Being a christian doesnt effect your work in a christian country, in muslim countries like iran you can not survive in business.(In my opinion)

Strider
27-04-2010, 20:01
if you're a christian company your products might be more popular among pedophiles :)

franzewich
27-04-2010, 20:35
... if your business is selling crucifixes or other Christian devotionalia! :)




Is being a Christian good for business?

tasel
27-04-2010, 22:54
Its better to be human to do good business.

len
28-04-2010, 09:23
Yes i know that and that was my point.
Being a christian doesnt effect your work in a christian country, in muslim countries like iran you can not survive in business.(In my opinion)

I actually wanted to know the % that is christian in that country. Are there any at all?

Matt24
28-04-2010, 09:37
I actually wanted to know the % that is christian in that country. Are there any at all?

Christians are the fourth largest group in Iran, after Moslems c. 95%, Bahia 1.5%, Zaostrians (spelling?) 1.2% Christians come in just under 1% of the population according to AI, and just above the Jews who also hover around the 1% - their rights to practise, but not convert, are 'protected' by the Iranian constitution as is their rights to be represented in government with ring-fenced minority religion seats in parliament - believe what you will, but that's the theory.

yakspeare
28-04-2010, 10:59
In most Muslim countries the rights of Christians and others are protected and ,in my experience, most muslims have a great deal of respect for Christians as other "people of the book". They think Christians are misguided but muslims rever Mary and consider Jesus to have been a prophet. So for the average muslim a christian who is true to their religion gets a lot more kudos than a nominal muslim.

Christianity as a whole warred Islam far longer than some nutty fringe group muslims have warred christians. Of course there are glaring exceptions such as in Africa where "christian" and "Muslim" tribes slaughter each other. Neither religion advocates this.

What would annoy muslims the most is if a Jehovah's witness or Mormon showed up. Trying to convert others is treated with hostility. If you don't try and convert the locals you are fine. i can assure you a christian gets a warmer reception than an atheist.


as for in business in general , my mother was a devout christian and real estate agent. she made a modest income, mainly because she lacked true sale skills-but she got a reputation that any realtor would be jealous of-as an honest salesperson. she taught me one thing about real estate- never lie and be the agent who always tells the truth and i tried it and was very successful. she did it because of her religion, i did it because i saw the wisdom in it.

on a more cynical level, being christian opens up a whole network of people in churches who might find business for you. there really isn't an atheist club that works the same(maybe communism club??)

shurale
28-04-2010, 11:00
Christians are the fourth largest group in Iran, after Moslems c. 95%, Bahia 1.5%, Zaostrians (spelling?) 1.2% Christians come in just under 1% of the population according to AI, and just above the Jews who also hover around the 1% - their rights to practise, but not convert, are 'protected' by the Iranian constitution as is their rights to be represented in government with ring-fenced minority religion seats in parliament - believe what you will, but that's the theory.

Christians and Jews are "people of the book".

"In Islam, the Muslim scripture, the Qur'an, is taken to represent the completion of these scriptures, and to synthesize them as God's true, final, and eternal message to humanity. Because the People of the Book recognize the God of Abraham as the one and only god, as do Muslims, and they practice revealed faiths based on divine ordinances, tolerance and autonomy is accorded to them in societies governed by sharia (Islamic divine law)."

len
28-04-2010, 11:31
[QUOTE=Matt24;655362]Christians are the fourth largest group in Iran, after Moslems c. 95%, Bahia 1.5%, Zaostrians (spelling?)

On the same I dont have any theory to believe . (Bahia....Zaostrians...othordox) is this group a sect?
I have only heard of the othodorx.

yakspeare
28-04-2010, 12:29
Zoroastrianism is one of the world's oldest religions and the oldest monotheistic one. It originated in Khiva(now Uzbekistan) and spread throughout Persia. I have studied it quite extensively and its history and survival despite Alexander the Great and its sacred texts preserved in India. It has a lot of similarity between it and christianity/islam and Judaism.

Ba'hai is a large sect of islam that merges many religions. they are mostly known as advocates for peace and it is popular with "hippies" amongst others. It is small but widespread. They have it even in Volgograd here.

Zoroastrians in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Yazd_fire_temple.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Yazd_fire_temple.jpg/250px-Yazd_fire_temple.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/1/1b/Yazd_fire_temple.jpg/250px-Yazd_fire_temple.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1'%C3%AD_Faith

martpark
28-04-2010, 13:48
Iran has the highest population of Jews in any Muslim country I've heard.

len
28-04-2010, 15:08
Iran has the highest population of Jews in any Muslim country I've heard.

how come?

Matt24
28-04-2010, 16:50
Iran has the highest population of Jews in any Muslim country I've heard.

it's kind of a technicality, because Turkey is a secular state and not an Islamic republic, but there's around 10 / 12k Jews in Iran, and nearer 20,000 in Turkey, we're quite popular in North Africa with about 10,000 souls across Morrocco, Tunisia, Algeria and Libya - central asia has quite a few thousand in Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, and pretty much wherever the soviet / tsarist empire spread you'll find representatives of one or other of the tribes. Big surprise to me was the thriving community in Damascus.

As to why, why not?

Matt

MickeyTong
28-04-2010, 16:56
how come?

They weren't liberated by Latvian Freedom Fighters.

rusmeister
28-04-2010, 22:02
In most Muslim countries the rights of Christians and others are protected and ,in my experience, most muslims have a great deal of respect for Christians as other "people of the book". They think Christians are misguided but muslims rever Mary and consider Jesus to have been a prophet. So for the average muslim a christian who is true to their religion gets a lot more kudos than a nominal muslim.

Christianity as a whole warred Islam far longer than some nutty fringe group muslims have warred christians. Of course there are glaring exceptions such as in Africa where "christian" and "Muslim" tribes slaughter each other. Neither religion advocates this.

What would annoy muslims the most is if a Jehovah's witness or Mormon showed up. Trying to convert others is treated with hostility. If you don't try and convert the locals you are fine. i can assure you a christian gets a warmer reception than an atheist.


as for in business in general , my mother was a devout christian and real estate agent. she made a modest income, mainly because she lacked true sale skills-but she got a reputation that any realtor would be jealous of-as an honest salesperson. she taught me one thing about real estate- never lie and be the agent who always tells the truth and i tried it and was very successful. she did it because of her religion, i did it because i saw the wisdom in it.

on a more cynical level, being christian opens up a whole network of people in churches who might find business for you. there really isn't an atheist club that works the same(maybe communism club??)

It is true that Islam officially tolerates Christians and Jews, and usually allowed them to exist within the bounds of its kingdoms. However, they do not "have a great deal of respect for them" and historically (if we remember that the present is not the only time in history), all you have to do is look up things ranging from the control of the Orthodox patriarchs to the recruitment of Jannissaries to see examples of treatment that we would cry foul on human rights on today.

It is no remarkable thing to consider Jesus a prophet - half the world at least admits that He was a very wise man in His own time. The Christian claim is precisely that He was not merely a prophet. It is completely rooted in the actual divinity of Christ and a Trinitarian view of God.

The idea that Christians were the prime aggressors seems rooted in a historical view that begins in the 11th century and ends in the 13th (ie, sees pretty much only the Crusades). Certainly the fact that it was Islam that was the initial aggressor and had pushed halfway up into France is (conveniently?) forgotten in that version.

(Not that I would defend a lot of things done by or in the name of the Catholic Church, which I don't see to be the most authentic expression of Christianity, anyway. But presenting Islam as more of the victim than the perpetrator that started the struggle is not the case, to say the least.)

yakspeare
28-04-2010, 22:15
i am sorry but i have lived in muslim countries and the attitude in general is very positive....they don't like polytheistic religions and have no comprehension of atheism and think it is quite an alien and abhorrent idea.

If you are from the west you are assumed to be christian anyhow. almost all my experiences were positive with them as long as i showed them the courtesy and respect they deserved too.

Hospitality in most muslim countries is superior i think to anywhere. Remember we aren't just talking about the Arabs, but Pakistan, Afghanistan(where if you are a guest they will guard you with their life), the rest of central asia(where any guest can eat the entire food of the house without complaint if desired) or in Malaysia and Indonesia too.

America does more to damage the cause of what constitutes christianity and western lifestyle than anything else and most hostility is aimed at them and not at christian in general

martpark
28-04-2010, 23:49
how come?

Officially they say they are not against Judaism but they are opposed to Zionism.

More likely a show of propaganda.

Scatterling
29-04-2010, 00:43
Is being a Christian good for business?

Being a good person doesn't make you Christian and being Christian doesn't make you a good person. I suppose it applies to business as well.

In my humble, misguided, insignificant, often wrong but usually quite harmless, opinion....

tvadim133
29-04-2010, 00:51
That's true!

Besides, I can not understand how your religion or belonging to this or that church can help you in business.

It is more connected with a type of your character, energy, education, experience, brains, luck.

May be there are some specific religious organizations which can help you (like sects?)? But I doubt that it helps in real life.

len
29-04-2010, 09:33
It is true that Islam officially tolerates Christians and Jews, and usually allowed them to exist within the bounds of its kingdoms. However, they do not "have a great deal of respect for them" and historically (if we remember that the present is not the only time in history), all you have to do is look up things ranging from the control of the Orthodox patriarchs to the recruitment of Jannissaries to see examples of treatment that we would cry foul on human rights on today.



I was wondering when you were going to show up

rusmeister
29-04-2010, 13:47
i am sorry but i have lived in muslim countries and the attitude in general is very positive....they don't like polytheistic religions and have no comprehension of atheism and think it is quite an alien and abhorrent idea.

If you are from the west you are assumed to be christian anyhow. almost all my experiences were positive with them as long as i showed them the courtesy and respect they deserved too.

Hospitality in most muslim countries is superior i think to anywhere. Remember we aren't just talking about the Arabs, but Pakistan, Afghanistan(where if you are a guest they will guard you with their life), the rest of central asia(where any guest can eat the entire food of the house without complaint if desired) or in Malaysia and Indonesia too.

America does more to damage the cause of what constitutes christianity and western lifestyle than anything else and most hostility is aimed at them and not at christian in general

Hi, yakspeare,
I wouldn't deny your experiences. What you see NOW, however, is not a reliable indicator of what has gone down in history, any more than you could judge Christianity by the both peaceful and totally divided concept today - you'd have left out the Crusades on one hand, and the completely unified nature of the Church in the first millennium. So I wasn't really commenting on what you see now. I was talking about the relationship of Islam and Christianity throughout history. And it was a definite thing, with definite Churches (the Orthodox Church in the East, and the RCC in the West), and something that protestantism has had very little relationship with. More than anything, Islam has impacted negatively on the Orthodox Church. To this day, Constantinople is occupied and the Hagia Sophia defiled (something of great meaning to Orthodox Christians, even if it means little to you). Except for Russia, most Orthodox lands and peoples spent centuries under Islamic rule - and some still are. While less impacted, in the Catholic West Spain was dominated for several centuries, and Islamic invasions went up to the heart of (what is now) France and Austria.

So I'll agree totally that there are a number of virtues that can be seen in the Islamic world today (and some that have always existed in it). I will disagree if you contend that Islam was historically more of a victim than an aggressor.

MickeyTong
29-04-2010, 14:23
To this day, Constantinople is occupied and the Hagia Sophia defiled (something of great meaning to Orthodox Christians, even if it means little to you).

Like all True Believers, Muslims will believe that Hagia Sophia has been "liberated" from the misconceived ignorance of its previous ideological masters - something which the victors always do.

Even the RCC built its churches on sites already venerated by Pagans - sacred groves (like Notre Dame), sacred wells, tidal islands, etc.

rusmeister
30-04-2010, 08:34
Like all True Believers, Muslims will believe that Hagia Sophia has been "liberated" from the misconceived ignorance of its previous ideological masters - something which the victors always do.

Even the RCC built its churches on sites already venerated by Pagans - sacred groves (like Notre Dame), sacred wells, tidal islands, etc.

Of course.
A relativist would see no difference. (Oh, and I would say, if you wanted to actually be fair, "sincere/serious believers" with no capitalization. But maybe you have no intention of being fair.)

However, someone who believes that there is actually truth and that it is possible to discover it would, in this case, see that somebody or other is actually right and that the others are actually wrong (however close to or far from said truth). To them, there would indeed be such things as defilement and restoration - words, like "heresy" and "dogma", that relativists react to without thinking or understanding. They use them as rhetorical terms that rely on knee-jerk reactions to bypass actual thinking.

MickeyTong
30-04-2010, 15:54
Are you saying that "serious/sincere believers" don't have knee-jerk reactions to words like "heresy" and "dogma"?

rusmeister
30-04-2010, 18:01
Are you saying that "serious/sincere believers" don't have knee-jerk reactions to words like "heresy" and "dogma"?
I would say that, if we limit ourselves to people who actually style themselves as intelligent and actively study the concepts, the number of believers who have thought-out ideas regarding those concepts as opposed to packaged and indoctrinated cant far exceeds that of non-believers.

MickeyTong
02-05-2010, 16:55
However, someone who believes that there is actually truth and that it is possible to discover it would, in this case, see that somebody or other is actually right and that the others are actually wrong (however close to or far from said truth).

.....and you would contend that it is actually True that earthquakes are a consequence of sin.

rusmeister
03-05-2010, 09:03
.....and you would contend that it is actually True that earthquakes are a consequence of sin.
In a sense, yes they are. The consequences of the Fall were total. All processes of death and destruction (entropy) began with it.

But if you mean "of sins today"... well, that depends. Obviously, if global warming, for example, leads to catastrophes, and said warming was indeed in part or wholly due to human activity, and some of (OK, a large portion of) that activity was motivated by greed and selfishness, then again, yes, you have catastrophes that are a consequence of sin. As to earthquakes? I don't know. It depends on whether any of them could be linked to human activity.

But if you're referring to the Patriarch's remarks, I'd have to repeat what I said before - the essence of which, I believe, was that any human leader of the Church can screw up - so unlike Catholics, we don't place absolute trust in any of them. If, over a period of a few hundred years (peanuts in the Orthodox time scale) all of the Churches come to agree on what a Patriarch or other leader says, then it becomes dogma - but these days it would pretty much require an Ecumenical Council to determine that. When the Patriarch Sergius called on all Orthodox people to support the Soviet government, they were not bound to obey him, just because he was the patriarch - and they did not, resulting in the creation of ROCOR (the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia) and the jurisdictional mess in the US today - one that is slowly, it appears, coming to order.